Big Complaint

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Spud
Can we keep in mind it is also fairly intimidating for a low ranking student to come up and introduce themselves to a black belt whose face they don’t recognize wearing a different uniform?

I’d expect that they meant no slight, but didn’t know better. A black belt also had the opportunity to be quite an ambassador and introduce himself and subtlety guide some inexperienced students on what a more suitable protocol might be. This could have easily been a win-win situation for everyone involved.

Respectfully,

-spud-
:asian:

True also. I wrote to their Instructor a very careful, respectful letter. (I do know him as well) and the issue was resolved.:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

Good for you Ricardo. What was the response and was a remedy included? I have wondered how to let an instructor know his students were acting condesending, egotistical, sarcastic, etc. when they did not know who I was (I had not changed yet), it was directed to other attendees at a seminar and my students were shocked Black Belts acted that way. I had to go into the old "Maturity in the Art" and "Back in the Day" stories.

-Michael

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Good for you Ricardo. What was the response and was a remedy included? I have wondered how to let an instructor know his students were acting condesending, egotistical, sarcastic, etc. when they did not know who I was (I had not changed yet), it was directed to other attendees at a seminar and my students were shocked Black Belts acted that way. I had to go into the old "Maturity in the Art" and "Back in the Day" stories.

-Michael

The Instructor felt it was not done on purpose, but they should've known better. I stressed it was not my intention to tell him what to do, since I'm not over him, nor am I compelled ethically to tell him how to run his business. I wanted to be very careful doing this. This was hard to do, because I really don't like to say anything to others, but I felt my 22 years in the business ought to count for something, especially when these guys are rookies.:asian:

 

[pknox]

And if he was the classy guy that I'm sure he is, I hope he took it in stride and realized that you were in fact doing him a huge favor by letting him know this. If I were the instructor in question, I would probably be more upset if you didn't tell me about how my students were acting, because my ignorance of it would leave me powerless to correct it.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by pknox
And if he was the classy guy that I'm sure he is, I hope he took it in stride and realized that you were in fact doing him a huge favor by letting him know this. If I were the instructor in question, I would probably be more upset if you didn't tell me about how my students were acting, because my ignorance of it would leave me powerless to correct it.

You got it. I'll be sure not to upset you! I don't want one of these.................:btg:

 

[pknox]

Narry a need to worry, my friend.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by pknox
Narry a need to worry, my friend.

Wouldn't you know it........I forgot my cup!

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by RCastillo
Wouldn't you know it........I forgot my cup!

Good now......Ricardo:btg:The Golden One

 

[Michael Billings]

Thanks for sharing ... but not the :btg:

-Michael

 

[jdmills]

I agree that senior Balack Belts can be very intimidating to some of lower rank. I can understand that they could be intimidated but to me this is about basic courtesy and is not entirely based on martial arts heirarchy or rank. Even if a lower rank student from another system had the room and a black belt wanted to use it, it is just common courtesy to say something like "Excuse me, I hate to interrupt your training but I am scheduled for this room at 7:00."

Anyone with any manners that has to get someone else out of a room that they are scheduled to use (if they just want to use the room and are not scheduled for it it's even worse) needs to demonstrate some kind of deference. At least I would, whether I ranked the person or even if I was the person's boss at work. If I need a room, I would say, please excuse me, I hate to ask you to leave but I need this room.

I guess I'm just getting old (I'm 40) but I just don't understand the kids these days.

 

[Kenpomachine]

This summer, we've used to share the room with many people from different martial arts. Asking previously whether they mind or not to the ones who arrived first, regardless of rank

But that was only training and not classes.

 

[theletch1]

Where did we go wrong?

It was that whole 1960's "If it feels good, do it!" thing. I think we can see a definate drop in quality of the behavior of the general population. Sad but true.

 

[jdmills]

There also seems to be a relatively recent attitude arise that nobody can comment on the correctness of another person's behavior since "you have not walked in their shoes and don't understand what it is like to be (insert category - minority, male, female, rich, poor, disabled, . . . )". Of course it is true that I do not know what it is like to be another person but some things are just WRONG.

:soapbox:

 

[Titan Uk]

Originally posted by Brother John
Don't paint w/ a large brush. Maybe these were some bad seeds, maybe their instructor would have 'called'em on it' if he/she/they'd seen this conduct.
I don't know much about he IKC, but Kenpoists of any ilk are still humans.
Your Brother
John

It doesn't matter who you are or where you are there are always someone who will not show any respect to you. Unfortunately that seems to be the way things are nowdays

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, lots of different ideologies besides the Left have their little PC moments and biases, don't they?

More to the point--I don't think it's politics as such, or rather I hope not. I think it's an ugly outcropping of the history of kenpo as a "radical," art that does away with tradition in the interest of efficiency. And I think it's a consequence of the growing attitude that this or that part of the system can just be dispensed with as "useless..." or that the salutation, "doesn't mean," anything, in terms of history or manners or fighting or anything else.

There a lot to learn in martial arts. And some folks--most folks in fact--won't learn them just by being told. They need physical lessons--and I swear, we all need to add to the list of things those, "useless," sets and forms teach this: COURTESY.

I think about this stuff because I was discussing with my original teacher, Toni Wasserberger, the fact that I'd noticed I was sometimes snapping problem students in half--or heading off their problems--with hard work on stances. I mean, can't-lift-your--foot-so-you-can't-be-a-bully hard work on stances. Like breaking a horse.

She cackled (trust me) and said, "Yeah, I know," and I flashed back to more than many hot-*** days in her back yard, sweating my way through the kneels in Short 2, the old stance set...

Personally, I think that kind of behavior is arrogant and inexcusable. And I blame their instructor...

Not to mention the fact that as far as I can see, more than half the fights we get into can be forestalled with a little courtesy. If that ain't a fighting application, I dunno what is...

 

[Titan Uk]

I agree that the instructor can take some of the blame but when he is not present their students behave differently than when he is there.

It is hard to identify students who have the wrong attitude but it can be done and has been done on several occasion at our club. Lessons were given out to point their error of their ways. Some stay (After learning an important lesson), some left (No loss to the style or club).

Courtesy does not cost you anything and it can get you great rewards.