Cross Dressing

[Seig]

Gou, It comes down to this. As you know I was a TKDer for a long time. I studied under a very formal, strict and traditional instructor. If one of us had our belt that out of whack, he started by taking it away completely. He ingrained into us that the belt was not only an indicator of knowledge gained, but respect earned and given. If we did not respect ourselves enough to honor what we had accomplished then we did not repsect him or his teaching, or the art. It remains something that drives me nuts, and I do not let my own students get away with it.

 

[Michael Billings]

For one of, if not the best, then close to the best posts I have ever read. Entertaining from start to finish. I am sorry you had to go through it .. I am sure you were not nearly as entertained watching it as we were reading your post.

Makes me thankful for what we do and how we do it.

Yours in Kenpo ... always
-Michael B.
UKS-Texas.com

 

[Goldendragon7]

AMEN!~

:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Klondike93



Sounds familiar to me.....Hmmm, lets see, where have I seen this before?

Oh yes now I remember. When I went to take my black belt test we had to do a thing called Ho Sin Sul, self defense. Well wanting to make it look good, I pulled out Lone Kimono and Five Swords and made it look a lot more interesting. Passed and they never even knew I used kenpo to do it too

:asian:

Whew, I was worried. I thought weirdos had penetrated this sacred Forum, and were promoting some strange fetishes!?!

I wasn't as lucky as Klondike. I tried to implement Kenpo techniques for my self defense when I tested for 3rd Dan. They told me,"Do it over, that is not TKD!" And here I thought I was gonna pull it off, and look great!
:vu:

 

[Seig]

You should have known better, it probably looked too good and effective to have been anything they could have presented to you.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by RCastillo
They told me,"Do it over, that is not TKD!" And here I thought I was gonna pull it off, and look great!:vu:

When you wear a Black Kenpo Uniform wth Al Tracy's Face on the Back of it!

And your cheerleader section yelling.......
Ricardo .......... Ricardo ........ he's our man....
If TKD won't work ....... Kenpo Can.

sheesh!

 

[Klondike93]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Klondike93

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:asian:

Klondike, whose side you on?!?

 

[Goldendragon7]

Mine silly.... Texas will fall ... sooner or later... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:asian:

 

[WilliamTLear]

I agree with Dennis about this one, and I have to say it is not really due to tradition, but due to respect.

By calling ourselves Martial Artsits we take on certain responsibilities... Because Martial means "Military" and Art makes a reference to "Practice". Having a clean uniform, and evenly tied belt is something that demands attention. Besides the explanation that Mr. Conatser made earlier... anyone not wearing a clean Gi and neatly tied belt is being disrespectful and is out of uniform!

I don't know what the soldiers wear in Canada, but most countries require their soldiers to wear clean uniforms when showing up for duty. I know that when I was in the United States Navy... there was hell to pay for the smallest lack of attention to detail.

I vote to "Respect" the military aspect of our Art. Some traditions have obvious benefits... self respect is one of them! Although, you could show up to class wearing a Gi that smells like piss, and tie your belt around your head like a bandana... I can't think of anyone that would wanna work out with you in that case though...

Salute,
Billy Lear
United Kenpo Systems
www.geocities.com/williamtlear :asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear

I agree with Dennis about this one, and I have to say it is not really due to tradition, but due to respect.

By calling ourselves Martial Artsits we take on certain responsibilities... Because Martial means "Military" and Art makes a reference to "Practice". Having a clean uniform, and evenly tied belt is something that demands attention. Besides the explanation that Mr. Conatser made earlier... anyone not wearing a clean Gi and neatly tied belt is being disrespectful and is out of uniform!

I don't know what the soldiers wear in Canada, but most countries require their soldiers to wear clean uniforms when showing up for duty. I know that when I was in the United States Navy... there was hell to pay for the smallest lack of attention to detail.

I vote to "Respect" the military aspect of our Art. Some traditions have obvious benefits... self respect is one of them! Although, you could show up to class wearing a Gi that smells like piss, and tie your belt around your head like a bandana... I can't think of anyone that would wanna work out with you in that case though...

I've seen seniors in faded ghi pants, or ghi pants that
are frayed at the bottom. I've also seen a boat load with frayed
belts! Using your military analogy, try find an active duty
soldier with faded pants, frayed ANYTHING, or a frayed belt. AIN'T
GONNA HAPPEN!

I agree that belt ties should be reasonably even ... but that's only
because I'm anal. It drives me just as crazy when someone
pronounces "Suppose-ably".

When I was in college, there were those there looking to learn,
and there were those there looking to be in some sort of fashion
show. I didn't see many of the latter actually graduating. I go
to my school to learn kenpo, not to look good. What I'm wearing
doesn't effect my ability to learn.

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Kirk



... but that's only because I'm anal.

This remark is begging for a juvenile response, But I will resist the temptation.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by fist of fury

This remark is begging for a juvenile response, But I will resist the temptation.

You mean partially resist! :shrug:

 

[Goldendragon7]

You stated.... "I've seen seniors in faded gi pants, or gi pants that are frayed at the bottom. I've also seen a boat load with frayed belts! "

You must have been spying on me!.... Here is where the "Military analogy" gets adjusted......... hee hee....... nothing wrong in Kenpo with a well used uniform and frayed belt. It shows tenure and use. However it still should be clean and neat.

I used to bug Mr. Parker about his uniform. At the latter stages of his life (last 15 years) he became more administrative and lectured tirelessly. His uniform of choice at this stage was a light weight cotton/Poly blend that stayed jet black and neat always. I used to teas him about it...... saying where is your hard core heavy cotton uniform of the warrior, he said.... "Ahhh this looks much nicer to teach in"! LOL.....

So there are two stages of Uniforms........ Combat ~ Peace Time!
LOL

I still wear "Combat" all the time.!!! just feels better to me.

:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

You stated.... "I've seen seniors in faded gi pants, or gi pants that are frayed at the bottom. I've also seen a boat load with frayed belts! "

You must have been spying on me!.... Here is where the "Military analogy" gets adjusted......... hee hee....... nothing wrong in Kenpo with a well used uniform and frayed belt. It shows tenure and use. However it still should be clean and neat.

I used to bug Mr. Parker about his uniform. At the latter stages of his life (last 15 years) he became more administrative and lectured tirelessly. His uniform of choice at this stage was a light weight cotton/Poly blend that stayed jet black and neat always. I used to teas him about it...... saying where is your hard core heavy cotton uniform of the warrior, he said.... "Ahhh this looks much nicer to teach in"! LOL.....

So there are two stages of Uniforms........ Combat ~ Peace Time!
LOL

I still wear "Combat" all the time.!!! just feels better to me.

:asian:

I always wondered why SGM Parker always wore a lighter GI.

As for Mr. Conatser, he needs the combat one, it's "Gang City" in Scottsdale. You need a one made out of "Kevlar" over there!

 

[meni]

"I've seen seniors in faded ghi pants, or ghi pants that
are frayed at the bottom. I've also seen a boat load with frayed
belts! Using your military analogy, try find an active duty
soldier with faded pants, frayed ANYTHING, or a frayed belt. AIN'T
GONNA HAPPEN! "

i have tyo agree wiht you there nothing like wathching a Kenpo instruacter with faded gi's or thorn gi's it just give me a filling that he/they dont care it like going to any ohter Job/work
i would think onw wants to look presnatable.

 

[tonbo]

I don't mind instructors in a frayed or "distressed" gi--belt, either. Like GD said, it indicates that the uniform has been used and used well. I have gis that are so worn out they are no longer black, but grey.....and I will wear them from time to time for class.

If a uniform is torn to shreds, or torn to the point of being indecent, or is otherwise not wearable, then yes, my opinion is that it should be retired. Likewise, I feel that if an instructor is doing a public demonstration, or lecturing in uniform, or anything similar, then it *might* be best to wear a newer, cleaner, and less "worn" uniform to present a good image. Again, like anything else, this will depend on the instructor, on the audience, and about a million other things.

Belts, well, there's another debate that has been hashed over endlessly on these forums. I respect a frayed BB, if it is legitimately frayed, and not something that some goof took sandpaper to. If it is frayed due to use, then it is worthy of respect, in my opinion.

When I am at work, I dress in business casual. When at home, I tend to prefer sweats or jeans. When instructing at our school, I wear a clean and pressed uniform (red top, black bottoms). When in class (black uniform), I wear a clean and pressed uniform. However, I may just be wearing the "grey" one.....it's like the pair of jeans that finally fits "just right".....that'd be my "comfy, gettin' down and dirty" gi....

Peace--

 

[WilliamTLear]

Old Tattered Gi's aren't an issue, the stinky, wrinkled, I've slept in my Gi for a week outfits are what I'm talking about.

As for the belt, I have yet to see a senior that doesn't knw how to tie His/Her Belt.

Take Care,
Billy Lear
United Kenpo Systems
www.geocities.com/williamtlear

 

[Sigung86]

We seem to use tradition where it feels good. The tradition of the uniform (see KENPO, By Edmund K. Parker) even gets down to how to tie the belt when transporting the gi. A sloppy gi, or dirty gi is indicative of the students mental state regarding how he/she approaches the study of the arts and his/her feelings about self.

The belt has an almost metaphysical presence or persona in the study of the arts. It's not something to just slap on willy-nilly to keep the cold air out. No one goes out and studies to obtain the coveted BLACK SOCKS!

The tying and wearing of the belt is, in itself, another of those little attentions to detail that we, as martial artists, are supposed to be so interested in.

A person who will sloppily tie a belt, wear a sloppy gi, or deride those traits, probably doesn't pay much attention to the detail of his or her art, or life in general. Mencius, a great Chinese philosopher, said, "As it is above, so it is below". If you do not pay attention to the big things, how can you ever be expected to pay attention to the little things, and concurrently, vice-versa?!

Insofar as condition of the belt ... It doesn't matter. An old well-worn belt indicates all the things that were mentioned before, so I won't rehash. A well-worn Black Belt is the wearers choice.

Just some thoughts on the belt...

Dan

 

[KENPOJOE]

Hi Folks!
I was reading this thread and decided that I needed a rank mesage board promotion so i'm writing my opinion about this topic!
With over 50+ uniforms to my credit from different styles of martial arts, I still find that there are certain ones that i'm always partial to...the worn, used, dingy greying heavy canvas or the worn out 100 per cent cotton gi with the red trim and the obligatory 9 million kenpo patches [I am KENPOJOE, after all] and i've always been taught be the "old guard" that the guys who have "been there" are the ones with the old tattered gis because the blood,sweat,and tears of kenpo permeated those garments... those pieces of clothing were their "sheepskin' if you will.
When I see Skip Hancock's tattered belt or other first generation Black Belts who were fondly old uniforms and belts, it makes me wonder what stories those clothes could tell me if could but speak!
this thread made me go to my closet and see how many different black beltsof various degrees from different arts i had in there....I stopped counting at 17! but there are still those handful of belts that bring memries flooding back to me...I had to retire 2 belts since i strted wearing the Black belt and they both hold a warm place in my heart for the training I went through to get them.

Old worn uniforms are not simply rags...they are signs of longevity.
BTW, for those of you who "had" to get a brand new uniform at your particular studio, did it ever occur to you that it was more of a merchandice sale than a policy re-enforcement?
:::Getting off my soapbox::::soapbox:
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
http://members.aol.com/kenpojoe/
or
Rebelo's Kenpo Karate