Best self defence art?

[still learning]

Hello, Just an opinion here......JUDO. Very hands on, you learn quicker because of this.

The whole idea is to off balance the person and throw them....once thrown and unbalance the Judo person has the advantages....

Experiencing Judo is the only way to know why? ...it would be near the top or top to be consider a "best self-defense".

Many times people only see the sport side....there is a combat side to it too.....

Aloha, getting punch or kick hurts..getting off balance and thrown...one only hope the JUDO thrower is nice to you on the landing...

PS: Try facing a Judo expert....than you will know.....Just one opinion here.

 

[Spinback]

I agree with people that have said there isn't any superior art. There are inferior ones, but no elite. However, since this is an opinion based thread, I'll give my own opinions on what you need to be prepared to defend yourself in a streetfight situation. This is based off my own experience as well as research and anecdotes from others.

1. You need to know how to fight on the ground. If you don't, you're one takedown away from being dead. So what if you know sixteen striking techniques that will each incapacitate a person? Those are hard to do when your enemy is in a full-force rush, and if you miss you're done. I suggest BJJ for this because I learned some and it has worked for me in training and practical scenarios.

2. You need to be aware of your surroundings. Learning to use all five senses and watch your environment while you're fighting isn't easy, but if you accidentally run into a brick wall when you're dodging a tackle you could get hurt badly.

3. You need to know how to protect yourself. It doesn't matter how hard you can punch or how slick your ground game is if your attacker floors you with his first move.

4. You need to know how to deal damage. Through practical throws like a wrist throw or hip throw, or fast striking, or submissions, it doesn't matter. Unless you can hurt the person, they won't stop trying to hurt you.

5. Most importantly... you need to know how to improvise. I'm a confident fighter, but if some punk had me backed into an alley my first instinct would be to throw a brick at him and run. If you can find a weapon, use it. If you can run, do it. If you can call for help, start screaming.

Just my two cents.

 

[TrainHardFightEasy]

if you can mix muay thai and jiu jitsu then you're well balanced

A hurting machine in the making

 

[LawDog]

There are no bests, only good ones. Every street situation is different so the art that correctly addresses your impending threat is the best.
:knight:

 

[tellner]

LawDog, I know what you're saying here, and I respect you for it. But some styles are excellent, good, fair or so worthless you're better off not learning them at all. An excellent craftsman can do a fine job with poor tools. But anyone will do better with tools that are suited to the job.

Plenty of martial arts styles are simply lousy tools for any sort of fighting or defense. Consider molasses-slow Taiji, Tohei's Ki Society Aikido, almost all competition Wu Shu, Moder Pentathlon, the sports-only versions of WTF TKD, the expensive bondage gear version of .22 rifle shooting and a number of others. As presented they are pretty darned worthless if you want to prevail when someone is trying to hurt you.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Plenty of martial arts styles are simply lousy tools for any sort of fighting or defense. Consider molasses-slow Taiji,

Please...keep thinking that :EG:

 

[tellner]

I will certainly do that. What passes for Taiji almost every time simply is not a martial art. Consider the Taoist Tai Chi organization or almost any group that is teaching it "for health". There is no push hands to speak of and less with a partner who isn't completely cooperative. There are no exercises for developing internal strength. There is little work on storing and releasing from your own motions let alone doing it with an incoming attack. There is nothing like that. There's just endless repetition of the Yang Short Form, maybe a jian form and some pretty darned empty silk reeling exercises at ever-slower speeds. It's not even being done slowly to develop body awareness. Everyone knows Taiji is done slowly, so ever-slower must automatically be better.

There are some people who teach Taiji as a martial art. They are very very rare.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I will certainly do that. What passes for Taiji almost every time simply is not a martial art. Consider the Taoist Tai Chi organization or almost any group that is teaching it "for health". There is no push hands to speak of and less with a partner who isn't completely cooperative. There are no exercises for developing internal strength. There is little work on storing and releasing from your own motions let alone doing it with an incoming attack. There is nothing like that. There's just endless repetition of the Yang Short Form, maybe a jian form and some pretty darned empty silk reeling exercises at ever-slower speeds. It's not even being done slowly to develop body awareness. Everyone knows Taiji is done slowly, so ever-slower must automatically be better.

There are some people who teach Taiji as a martial art. They are very very rare.

A generalizations based on many but not all does not make it correct. There is taiji-light and there is Taijiquan. But I am the fist to say that true martial taiji is rare.

But please keep thinking this; it works to my advantage and to many that study with the Tung/Dong family or in that line (as I do) and many that train with the Chen family as well. Oh and Zhaobao, must not forget Zhaobao, they generally love fighting but apparently have not been told they are ineffective and slow.

We may do the forms slow but applications are fast once you understand the forms and how they work and Tung Ying Jie has 2 fast forms and Chen style has slow forms, slow/fast forms and fast forms. Zhaobao has slow and slow/fast but the slow/fast is rare.

However I will also say Taiji is not a quick learn for martial arts purposes, it takes a long time and I would not recommend it to anyone looking for a quick fix to their self-defense needs

 

[still learning]

Hello, After reading all above comments...it seems one needs to learn how to fight standing up.....one needs to learn takedowns...and learn how to fight on the ground....and learn to get back up fighting anyway you can.

Learning to use the brains and proper verbal words too for avoidance.

One will also need to learn to be in good shape and have lots of endurance from there training.

One needs to learning running too...escaping methods

and learn in the adrenline training too.........
====================================================

A Qi gong master told us.....just do it....think nice things...do nice things, and speak nice things....you will never need to prepare for a fight.

Yes sometimes there are people who fights us.....Yet most of us will never every use our fighting techniques or skills.......awareness and avoidance with proper verbal words....is all we will every need.

Look around how many people do not ever train in any martial arts...and there lives go on without incidents.

Aloha,

 

[TrainHardFightEasy]

I honestly think some Martial Arts really are superior and others inferioir for self defence purposes. In my mind you could give some Martial Arts say a 2 or 3 star rating and others a 5. But at the same time I understand it really is more about the indidvidual.

 

[LawDog]

Tellner,
I should have paid more attention to what I was writting but I was in a rush this am and didn't really re-read.
My post was supposed to read, only good ones and then there are others.
So I do agree with you.

 

[tellner]

A generalizations based on many but not all does not make it correct. There is taiji-light and there is Taijiquan. But I am the fist to say that true martial taiji is rare.

I'd be happy if just a few more people remembered the "Quan" part. We did Taiji for a couple years at a school run by a former gazillion time Chinese champion, former National Team Coach, etc etc etc. I could never tell what he really knew because he never showed. It was all learn to perform a form, then take a test. He showed silk reeling exercises but it was just waving arms and legs around. The fact that I could hold my own in push hands with the black belt wasn't a sign of my studly skills. It's a poor reflection on what they were being taught. And many say he ran one of the better studios.
:flammad:

I've met a few players who could play. I've got the highest respect for them. If Ren Guang Yi crossed arms with me he would dribble me around like a basketball no matter what I tried. But men with his training and skill are extremely rare. For the most part people don't even try to teach it as a martial art or as a way of cultivating internal strength.

But please keep thinking this; it works to my advantage and to many that study with the Tung/Dong family or in that line (as I do) and many that train with the Chen family as well. Oh and Zhaobao, must not forget Zhaobao, they generally love fighting but apparently have not been told they are ineffective and slow.

I'll continue thinking that Taijiquan players with skills and fighting ability are rare. But I'll try really hard to hit first, from behind and with something sharp if I'm ever on the wrong side of one of the exceptions. That won't work to your advantage

We may do the forms slow but applications are fast once you understand the forms and how they work and Tung Ying Jie has 2 fast forms and Chen style has slow forms, slow/fast forms and fast forms. Zhaobao has slow and slow/fast but the slow/fast is rare.

However I will also say Taiji is not a quick learn for martial arts purposes, it takes a long time and I would not recommend it to anyone looking for a quick fix to their self-defense needs

I definitely understand slow and slow/fast. If I ever have a school again one of the school mottoes will be a great quote from Maestro Ramon Martinez: "Practice fast, learn slow. Practice slow, learn fast." What I can't stand or understand is slow as an end in itself or slow without also learning how to move from your center or slow without ever learning how to use their core, relax, draw strength up from the ground, feel, alleviate, store, generate, release and focus.

Taiji when taught properly is an incredibly effective martial art. But as practiced by the crystal-gazing bark eaters it's not worth the powder to blast it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

former gazillion time Chinese champion, former National Team Coach,

means he likely knows form and what he does or did is mostly for acrobatics, gymnastics and competition and not taijiquan.

I've met a few players who could play. I've got the highest respect for them. If Ren Guang Yi crossed arms with me he would dribble me around like a basketball no matter what I tried. But men with his training and skill are extremely rare. For the most part people don't even try to teach it as a martial art or as a way of cultivating internal strength.

This is why I am lucky; my Sifu was a long time student of Tung Ying Jie, considerably shorter and older than me and is incredibly good at throwing me around like a rag doll. As I have said in other posts he is the ONLY person I have ever had lock me with qinna that I never felt it or suspected it was coming. All of a sudden I am locked and rather shocked that I ended up in this position. But many years studying with Tung Ying Jie (who really liked qinna) and over 50 years of training only taiji I guess I should not be all that surprised.

I'll continue thinking that Taijiquan players with skills and fighting ability are rare. But I'll try really hard to hit first, from behind and with something sharp if I'm ever on the wrong side of one of the exceptions. That won't work to your advantage

ahhh no… please continue to think I am to slow to be of any concern what so ever :EG:

But even if you don’t taijiquan in application is all about patients so thanks for the warning

What I can't stand or understand is slow as an end in itself or slow without also learning how to move from your center or slow without ever learning how to use their core, relax, draw strength up from the ground, feel, alleviate, store, generate, release and focus.

I can’t either. But there is a lot of that in taiji today and I tend to think that it is virtually dead as an MA if you compare those of us that really train taiji to those that train the taiji health dance and throw in those that train taiji a couple of years (if that) and then go off to combine it with some other art like karate, long fist, aikido, etc. I believe Chen Xioawang said pretty much the same thing, which by comparison taijiquan as a MA is dying.

I just read an add this morning for a class in Yang style taiji the long form that first made me think, who the heck is teaching and then when I read “Ancient art of slow moving and exercise” I no longer cared who was teaching it. First off Yang style is not ancient and the rest is pretty much self explanatory.

Taiji when taught properly is an incredibly effective martial art. But as practiced by the crystal-gazing bark eaters it's not worth the powder to blast it.

I have told this story before ad nauseam so I will keep it short. I was once doing Taiji Sanshou with a student of another Sifu (not my Sifu) and he was fairly pathetic. He was too soft and did not complete any movements, it was a waltz to him and he was a bad dancer.
If this was a student of my Sifu I would have been more aggressive and completed moves showing him why he should not be doing what he was doing, but I just went along for the ride to see where it took me.

After we were finished I started to talk to him about taiji and the martial arts of taiji to which he replied “I don’t DO martial arts…. I DO Tai Chi” he felt that this made him superior to all other martial arts as well as invincible, it is internal you know, I truly hope he never found out the truth the hard way. I smiled at him and walked away.

I also has a student walk out in the middle of a class once because I said taiji was a martial art to which she replied “THIS is NOT karate!!” and walked out.

Sadly these attitudes are the same as most of the taiji people doing taiji today and it is very wrong. And based on that I can agree with your statement of it being no good for self defense and slow as molasses. But based on my experience with my Sifu and a few I have been lucky enough to train with I can’t agree but I will happily let every other non-taiji martial artist go on believing that.

 

[JadeDragon3]

IMO the best martial art for self defense would be either JKD or some martial art similiar. The reason I say this is becuase it uses techniques from alot of different styles and you use what works for you. JKD incorporates grappling as well as stand up fighting and teaches all ranges of fighting. I don't think that I would include BJJ as a good self defense art for real street fighting because in a lot of street fights you face have more than one opponent. BJJ does not work good if there is more than 1 opponent. However, if you are facing just 1 opponent and you know no friends of opponent is going to jump in then BJJ is really good. I also believe that besides the art you also have to take into account the skill level of the person and his/her fight experience.

 

[Sensei Tom O'Brien]

OK - I admit I am biased but Vee-Jitsu is a good fighting art encompassing many arts. I trained in Shotokan & TKD as well. It is first and foremost ju-jitsu with a lot of judo bur we do a lot of karate, primarily Shotokan. We do all the Heian kata, Bassai Dai & Sho. We do TKD but primarily the Palgwe forms with Koryo & Kung Gong also a couple of Taiguk forms. We do Arnis and fight full contact with sticks. We do boxing, kick-boxing and primarily self-defense. We adjust for karate competitions and do quite well. Professor Vee, the founder, used to say that is nice to have a rose garden but think how much more beautiful it would be with tulips, gardenias’, hyacinths, petunias, sunflowers, marigolds and so on. It is something to consider.
Thanks,
Sensei Tom

 

[Doc_Jude]

Best Self-defense Art? Better find something that's FAST, with realistic weapons defenses & applications. Do some Filipino arts, Indonesian Silat, Dog Brothers, Inosanto, & work at least some basic ground, BJJ, Kosen Judo, something. A year of good groundwork will put you light years ahead of anyone you will be attacked by, statistically speaking. There is the occasional stray drug-addled BJJ fighter that may try to carjack you, but they are few & far between. Good Silat has some pretty fly ground if you can get into grappling AND striking while prone.
If it can't handle what you will encounter in a real self-defense situation, or at least help you "die less often" as Crafty Dog likes to say, then IT'S NOT GOOD SELF DEFENSE. Martial Arts don't make you invincible. You're just hedging your bets. In an open market with little quality control, it's up to you to tell teh r347 Au from the FeS2.

 

[Remi Lessore]

I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what the best martial art is for self defence. What do you all think is the best, in your own opinions? Thanks.

The best self-defence method is:
Take a bus. Be somewhere else. Awareness - look over your shoulder frequently when in the street... and at the ATM. Learn to spot the up-to-no-gooders who are not going anywhere, but watching everyone else.

The 2nd best defence is attack. Take him out while he's thinking about doing it to you.
Learn
jab, cross, hook and uppercut with open or closed hand.
Learn front kicks (which you can also do sideways), and a mule kick.
Learn forward, backward and sideways elbowing.

All this is stuff we teach in the first few lessons of FEKM-RD krav maga. Look us up. www.krav-maga.net/uk

 

[howard]

The 2nd best defence is attack. Take him out while he's thinking about doing it to you.

If you take that route in the States, you'd better be sure that you can convince a court that you were in reasonable fear of imminent danger. Otherwise, you could very well find yourself on the wrong end of civil or criminal litigation.

Preemptive attacks are much harder to explain away than defending yourself against an attack that has been initiated, and for good reason.

 

[arnisador]

best defence is attack. Take him out while he's thinking about doing it to you.

If you take that route in the States, you'd better be sure that you can convince a court that you were in reasonable fear of imminent danger. Otherwise, you could very well find yourself on the wrong end of civil or criminal litigation.

Regrettably, both these points of view are accurate: A pre-emptive strike is very effective, but exposes the person to later legal danger.

I interpreted Remi Lessore's comment more in the sense of the best defense is a good offense as usually interpreted in self-defense, i.e., after things start you should steal the momentum/timing/rhythym of the fight and go to striking rather than blocking. That's much more defensible, as long as you stop when it's no longer a self-defense situation.

 

[Tez3]

If you take that route in the States, you'd better be sure that you can convince a court that you were in reasonable fear of imminent danger. Otherwise, you could very well find yourself on the wrong end of civil or criminal litigation.

Preemptive attacks are much harder to explain away than defending yourself against an attack that has been initiated, and for good reason.

Only if they catch you!