Bait and Shoot controversy

[Tgace]

Heres the lateset controversial topic in my area. We have a Whitetail Deer population explosion problem here in Town. During the middle of the night you can find them walking on the streets and sidewalks as they go from house to house eating landscaping. Car/Deer collisions have risen sharply (only a matter of time till a fatal happens). To compund the matter we have a lady here that feeds the deer in our Town park (which is illegal). For years we used to just advise her and send her on her way, but as she brings pounds of grain/corn and other foods daily, the DEC finally summoned her. Now we have implimented a bait and shoot program to try to get a handle on the population problem. Fireworks have bloomed from a small but vocal group. What do you folks think?

Heres an article...
http://www.cheektowagatimes.com/News/2005/0217/Front_Page/004.html

Do a google on "Cheektowaga bait and shoot deer" if you really care to read more on the issue.

 

[Tgace]

A little more info. There is no hunting allowed in Town. We are too densly populated. And there are no natural predators.

Our first permit resulted in approx 87 deer taken out of designated areas.

 

[ginshun]

What happens to them after you guys shoot them? Do you get to keep them, or sell them, or just throw them away?


Why not open an extra hunting season to the public in your county only? Although I suppose that neeeds some kind of sate approval.

 

[Tgace]

Meat is donated to the local food bank....no way we can let untrained people shoot within the Town limits. Our SWAT snipers do it. Very planned and methodical for safety concerns. Deer herds are very localized. Just killing deer in the rural areas around us will do nothing to the deer population in Town.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I have to get to another computer to read the link.

I don't understand why someone would have a problem with police snipers helping to reduce the overpopulation (although I am also a fan of predator reintroduction, which the same or a different group would get upset about, I'm sure) - much better than anyone deciding to "take care of it."

Would people prefer to have a town full of starving deer and defoliated landscapes?

Maybe!

 

[Lisa]

I did a google search like Tom suggested and read an article where the venisen was donated to a food bank. I am glad to here that the carcasses are not just being discarded but are being used to help feed the needy. I also read that a few dead animals were found in the park, died of starvation and enteritis due to eating the wrong kind of food. That is truly sad.

Personally if the animals are causing starving due to lack of food then a predator (beit man) must step in and intercede.

I also noticed, an article about the Canada Geese problem you are having. We are having the same problem inside the limits of our city as well and can not harass, move or damage these birds because they are protected by law in Canada. The biggest problem with animals and/or birds in a urban area is the lack of a natural predator. The Canada Geese will lay 7-10 eggs and all will usually survive inside city limits, however, in the wild only 3-4 would normal survive. Our population of Canada Geese is said to rise expotentially over the next twenty years. Our Wildlife management is working on a solution to the problem. I do believe that Minneapolis also had a huge Canada Geese problem (I could be wrong regarding the city) and allowed permits to hunters to help decrease the population. All the birds were then donated to the local food bank as well.

 

[ginshun]

Understandable. It sounds like a pretty good system you have to me. Is there some sort of contreversy over it or what?

Just on a side bar, the snipers sound like they have a fun job about now.

I felt like a sniper when I shot my deer last November. 475 yards. I was pretty proud of myself if I do say so.

And I do.

 

[Tgace]

There are plenty of people that are equating these Deer to their family pets. Heck some of the deer are named by the local Bambi lovers.

As to the Geese. You can hardly walk about the parks because of their droppings...

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Several friends of mine have works with state wildlife departments here on that issue (Canada Geese). A non-hunting solution (if that is not popular) - egg-addling.

No, really.

They would go out (2 of them) to the lakes where the geese nest, and addle (shake) their eggs. The eggs become nonviable. The geese continue (for a little bit) to sit on them, i think - i.e. don't start laying a new nest right away. So the # of goslings in a couple weeks is drastically reduced.

It's not widely publicized, I think, because people (who often don't deal with overpopulations of animals - or people) like the idea of lots of geese, don't like the idea of "birth control" (or population control - predation).

But it works.

 

[Makalakumu]

Heres the lateset controversial topic in my area. We have a Whitetail Deer population explosion problem here in Town. During the middle of the night you can find them walking on the streets and sidewalks as they go from house to house eating landscaping. Car/Deer collisions have risen sharply (only a matter of time till a fatal happens). To compund the matter we have a lady here that feeds the deer in our Town park (which is illegal). For years we used to just advise her and send her on her way, but as she brings pounds of grain/corn and other foods daily, the DEC finally summoned her. Now we have implimented a bait and shoot program to try to get a handle on the population problem. Fireworks have bloomed from a small but vocal group. What do you folks think?

Heres an article...
http://www.cheektowagatimes.com/News/2005/0217/Front_Page/004.html

Do a google on "Cheektowaga bait and shoot deer" if you really care to read more on the issue.

How big is Cheektowaga?

In my home town of Superior, we have 30,000 people and we have had similar problems. Our city implemented bowhunting permits for city wide hunts. I have personally participated in these hunts. I wonder if that would work for Cheektowaga?

The nice thing about bow hunting is that it decreases the range at which one can fire. In populated areas, this is important because it increases the recognizance of ones target. It also decreases the likelihood that stray shots will go very far to hurt anyone.

As far as the general principles of these hunts go, I think they are neccessary. Without these hunts, there is absolutely nothing to keep the population in check other then our fast moving vehicles. I would rather plug a few deer, fill my freezer and donate the rest to food shelf then pay thousands of dollars in vehicle repairs anyday.

 

[Tgace]

Several friends of mine have works with state wildlife departments here on that issue (Canada Geese). A non-hunting solution (if that is not popular) - egg-addling.

No, really.

They would go out (2 of them) to the lakes where the geese nest, and addle (shake) their eggs. The eggs become nonviable. The geese continue (for a little bit) to sit on them, i think - i.e. don't start laying a new nest right away. So the # of goslings in a couple weeks is drastically reduced.

It's not widely publicized, I think, because people (who often don't deal with overpopulations of animals - or people) like the idea of lots of geese, don't like the idea of "birth control" (or population control - predation).

But it works.

We are looking at a similar method, but faster to impliment. Oiling. A DEC agent goes from nest to nest with a sprayer and "oils" the eggs . Same result.

 

[Tgace]

How big is Cheektowaga?

In my home town of Superior, we have 30,000 people and we have had similar problems. Our city implemented bowhunting permits for city wide hunts. I have personally participated in these hunts. I wonder if that would work for Cheektowaga?

The nice thing about bow hunting is that it decreases the range at which one can fire. In populated areas, this is important because it increases the recognizance of ones target. It also decreases the likelihood that stray shots will go very far to hurt anyone.

As far as the general principles of these hunts go, I think they are neccessary. Without these hunts, there is absolutely nothing to keep the population in check other then our fast moving vehicles. I would rather plug a few deer, fill my freezer and donate the rest to food shelf then pay thousands of dollars in vehicle repairs anyday.

We are around 90-98K. Too dense for even bows. Our snipers set up in specific areas, specific directions, angled shots from above only (tree stands). Suppressed .308 rifles with special sub-sonic ammo designed to fragment and not richochet. Standing "sure" shots only. Very disciplined....

 

[ginshun]

How big is Cheektowaga?

In my home town of Superior, we have 30,000 people and we have had similar problems. Our city implemented bowhunting permits for city wide hunts. I have personally participated in these hunts. I wonder if that would work for Cheektowaga?

The nice thing about bow hunting is that it decreases the range at which one can fire. In populated areas, this is important because it increases the recognizance of ones target. It also decreases the likelihood that stray shots will go very far to hurt anyone.

As far as the general principles of these hunts go, I think they are neccessary. Without these hunts, there is absolutely nothing to keep the population in check other then our fast moving vehicles. I would rather plug a few deer, fill my freezer and donate the rest to food shelf then pay thousands of dollars in vehicle repairs anyday.

My town was actually thinking of doing the same thing. I think they are supposed to decide before next years archery season whether or not it will be allowed within the city limits, which is currently illegal. Personally I think it is a good idea.

Incidentally some idiot got arrested here last year for shooting a deer in town with his bow and gutting it out in the middle of a hotel parking lot. Some people.

 

[OUMoose]

Incidentally some idiot got arrested here last year for shooting a deer in town with his bow and gutting it out in the middle of a hotel parking lot. Some people.

Was the arrest due to him bowhunting in the city limits, or breaking some sort of health ordinance (or both)?

 

[Makalakumu]

We are around 90-98K. Too dense for even bows. Our snipers set up in specific areas, specific directions, angled shots from above only (tree stands). Suppressed .308 rifles with special sub-sonic ammo designed to fragment and not richochet. Standing "sure" shots only. Very disciplined....

Directly across the bridge from our city is Duluth, MN. That city is about the same size as Cheektowaga and they do the same thing. I don't know how much green space Cheektowaga has in terms of city parks, but I think that localized bow hunts in those places would put a substantial dent in the population. We've done lots of studies on deer out here and one of the things we've found is that they are not sedentary. The deer move around alot, moving from green space to green space.

I suppose its good practice for the snipers, but why let them have all of the fun?

Oh yeah, regarding the Bambi image, we had the same problem until our local paper began to publish data on the expense of car/deer crashes. When one has to shell out a few thousand dollars every other year, bambi ain't too cute anymore.

 

[Makalakumu]

My town was actually thinking of doing the same thing. I think they are supposed to decide before next years archery season whether or not it will be allowed within the city limits, which is currently illegal. Personally I think it is a good idea.

Incidentally some idiot got arrested here last year for shooting a deer in town with his bow and gutting it out in the middle of a hotel parking lot. Some people.

Superior gets around the state law by making all of the hunters "city employees" and limiting the hunt to within the city only. I know lots of place in MN do the same thing.

 

[Tgace]

Heres a humorous article on part of our "problem"....

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/conservation/news/2005/0307/2007357.html

 

[Tgace]

Most of our deer population is located in the southern half of town where the largest "greenspace" park is located. Problem is that it butts up to a federal nature preserve and the border of the neighboring Town. Which are outside our jurisdiction and have no programs initiated. Many of the deer walk rail lines and power right-of-ways into the more densely populated/developed northern half of town. The issue that arises is that our guys can only shoot on town owned property or get permission from the landowners of other areas.

 

[ginshun]

Was the arrest due to him bowhunting in the city limits, or breaking some sort of health ordinance (or both)?

I don't really know, bowhunting within city limits for sure, maybe something else too.

IMO they should have given him an extra fine for being an idiot and giving hunters a bad rep.

And to upnorthkyoso,

I am not really sure what the state laws on this are. My town is only 10k so there is lots of wooded area and fields on the outskirts of town that are still in the city limits. This reminds me that I should really look into it more.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Believe it or not, my feeling is they're rats with hooves, and they belong on the table.

More in keeping with what you might expect is this: some of the problem comes from our insane destruction of natural habitat, and our insane eradication of natural predators on deer.

They're tasty, too. Or so sayeth Ted Nugent.