Atrial Fibrillation

[Xue Sheng]

You bring up some great points. A few months ago before bed I didn't feel right. I took my pulse and it was all over the board. I took my blood pressure and it was 95/48 and I freaked out. My wife called the ambulance and off to the hospital I went. On my way the attendant's hooked me up with a saline drip, but the strange thing was by the time I arrived at the hospital and got all hooked up to monitor me they found nothing wrong. I stayed for 4 hours before releasing me.

I was in the ER with symptoms of a myocardial infarction on a few occasions, they never found anything. Finally one rather smart MD check a few other things and told me it was acid reflux. It is a bit disconcerting though, even knowing that, when you start getting all those symptoms and have to sit here debating..should I go to the ER...or should I stay home. Generally a shot of Apple Cider Vinegar calms it down.

I did get a ride in a ambulance on June 12, right after my knee replacement, if I stood up, or for that matter sat up straight, I passed out because my blood pressure was 90/30...they found out it was the pain meds I was on for the knee...

 

[geezer]

Hey Bill, I'm in the same boat.

I was diagnosed with A-Fib last year and they put me on a beta-blocker (atenolol). It seemed to be working for a while but it made me lethargic and contributed to a significant weight gain. A couple of months back they put me on a harness and determined that the beta blocker wasn't sufficiently controlling my condition and switched me to another med, flecanide.

I have been self monitoring with my apple watch and it looks like the new med is not doing the job either, as I'm still getting intermittent bouts of A-fib and other weird, irregular heart rhythms ...like jumping form 65 BPM to 140 BPM for a couple of minutes while resting. Less than an optimal situation.

I'm especially concerned because of the risk of stroke associated with A-fib. My older brother has already had a couple of them, the first when he was about age. He was Ivy league and Oxford educated. Unlike him, I don't have the brain cells to spare!

I'm due to see my cardiologist again next Friday. I'm hoping he will have some solutions. Meanwhile I'm still doing MA, but in a physically very conservative way.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Bill, make sure your cardiologist understands about your MA activity.
One of the standard pieces of A-Fib treatment is anti-coagulation. Which would put a big crimp in MA training. To continue with contact-activities, they really need to get you out of A-Fib (which is the easy part) and then keep you out of it. Beta-blockers and calcium-channel blockers are the front line meds. Generally, if they can't keep you out of A-Fib, you're anti-coagulated and use meds for rate control, and every thing is fine. But that would make any sort of sparring a Really Bad Idea. If medications can't stop the A-Fib, you might be a good candidate for ablation.

Absolutely true. Important point, thanks. Depending on how you train, just telling the doctor you work out will not give you a proper medical opinion. I've eased off this year, but two and three years ago my training was old time (pre WWII) Okinawan style INTENSE, especially at my age. My sensei was correct that my cardiologist likely had no concept about the kind of training I was engaged in. I emphasized the robustness of the training, but my doc seemed OK with it. Still, I thought it wise to cut back to a "normal" training regimen.

I also am on blood thinner, and it does require some special attention when in the dojo. Often, I get bulging hematomas on my forearms from blocking, or getting blocked. Freaks my wife out. I have to hide bruises to my ribs from her. They take a couple of weeks to go away. My wife insists I wear the arm pads my sensei gave me for this reason, but this is a case of macho winning out over common sense. I do wear a cotton arm sleeve, more to keep my gi sleeve from getting bloody than for actual protection, but I think it does help minimize skin abrasions.

Worse, my skin has thinned and occasionally tears from impact to my arm causing a LOT of (surface) bleeding. I don't notice it till someone points out my gi sleeve is bright red. Of course it was a new KI brand heavyweight requiring a replacement purchase. (I have a blood stain remover, but this was beyond hope). Luckily, I've so far escaped the bloody nose that is sure to be a gusher. I carry plenty of gauze and blood clot patches in my bag. Though we practice knife work, even if I win an actual fight, I'll probably bleed out from "incidental" cuts.

So, there are some trials and tribulations of getting old - some parts we can fight and delay the inevitable, some parts we must accept and adapt to.

 

[Oily Dragon]

The 13th precept of Musashi's Dokkodo comes to mind.

"13. Do not pursue the taste of good food. "

Harsh, master. But true.

 

[Steve]

Hey Bill, I'm in the same boat.

I was diagnosed with A-Fib last year and they put me on a beta-blocker (atenolol). It seemed to be working for a while but it made me lethargic and contributed to a significant weight gain. A couple of months back they put me on a harness and determined that the beta blocker wasn't sufficiently controlling my condition and switched me to another med, flecanide.

I have been self monitoring with my apple watch and it looks like the new med is not doing the job either, as I'm still getting intermittent bouts of A-fib and other weird, irregular heart rhythms ...like jumping form 65 BPM to 140 BPM for a couple of minutes while resting. Less than an optimal situation.

I'm especially concerned because of the risk of stroke associated with A-fib. My older brother has already had a couple of them, the first when he was about age. He was Ivy league and Oxford educated. Unlike him, I don't have the brain cells to spare!

I'm due to see my cardiologist again next Friday. I'm hoping he will have some solutions. Meanwhile I'm still doing MA, but in a physically very conservative way.

My wife takes that too.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I have just finished 3 miles running this afternoon. My BP is 113/74 10 minutes ago.

This is why at the age of 74, I still want to maintain my 3 miles running. I believe it's good for my heart. When the fresh air go into my lung, I can feel that I'm in heaven.

Does running improve heart health?



Overtime, running strengthens the walls of the heart, which increases its overall efficiency.” Running minimizes your heart's workload. Because runners have stronger hearts, they typically have a lower resting pulse rate and intake a higher amount of oxygen.Jul 28, 2016

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.

 

[jks9199]

I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.

Very sorry for your loss, Bill.

With your family history -- your cardiologist should be paying attention.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.

Sorry to hear that Bill.

If it is any consolation, both of my maternal grandparents died of heat issues in their 70s. My uncle, their oldest son died of heart issues in his 60s. His younger brother just passed away recently in his mid 90s, nothing to do with heart issues, and their younger sister, my mother is in her 90s and still doing ok, no heart issues.

 

[dvcochran]

I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.

So sorry for you loss. Take care of yourself.

We were at the funeral of a friend who died at 50 from a heart attack. Heart disease runs in their family, and he did not live a life that helped prevent it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yes, in the ambulance and the whole time I was in the hospital. By the time I got to the hospital everything stabilized and they could not duplicate it. Toward the end of my stay they had me walk the halls.

Duplicate what, would be the question. As in, what did the ambulance see that the ER didn't?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I have just finished 3 miles running this afternoon. My BP is 113/74 10 minutes ago.

This is why at the age of 74, I still want to maintain my 3 miles running. I believe it's good for my heart. When the fresh air go into my lung, I can feel that I'm in heaven.

Does running improve heart health?



Overtime, running strengthens the walls of the heart, which increases its overall efficiency.” Running minimizes your heart's workload. Because runners have stronger hearts, they typically have a lower resting pulse rate and intake a higher amount of oxygen.Jul 28, 2016

Running isn't in my future, thanks. Lots of reasons for it. I understand you're in good health, that's great.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just had my annual physical. I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.

All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled. Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range. Kidney and liver function excellent, all good. The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.

However, my EKG shows Atrial Fibrillation. This is new; I did not have it last year when tested, nor any year previously. My resting pulse rate is in the 80s. Doctor asked me if I have had any issues of light-headedness or dizzyness recently, and I have; mostly in the dojo but sometimes when I stand up from the couch after sitting for awhile.

He put me on a beta blocker and I've made an appointment with a cardiologist for a stress test, echo cardiogram, and I guess I have to wear a harness for a while. Until then, I'm to keep my pulse rate under 150, which means no cardio in the dojo; even when I'm doing kata, if I get to breathing hard, I take a break.

It bothers me to be sitting down while everyone else is working out, but I don't really have a choice. At least until I get a rundown from the cardiologist and hear what I need to be doing.

It's always something, eh?

Famous martial arts saying. "Life gets on the way"

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Running isn't in my future, thanks. Lots of reasons for it. I understand you're in good health, that's great.

Will you consider walking instead? A friend of mine had high A1C. He started to walk 4 miles daily and his A1C come back down normal.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Will you consider walking instead? A friend of mine had high A1C. He started to walk 4 miles daily and his A1C come back down normal.

You don't know my situation. Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[seasoned]

Duplicate what, would be the question. As in, what did the ambulance see that the ER didn't?

You bring up some great points. A few months ago before bed I didn't feel right. I took my pulse and it was all over the board. I took my blood pressure and it was 95/48 and I freaked out. My wife called the ambulance and off to the hospital I went. On my way the attendant's hooked me up with a saline drip, but the strange thing was by the time I arrived at the hospital and got all hooked up to monitor me they found nothing wrong. I stayed for 4 hours before releasing me.

At this point they saw symptoms pertaining to the original call, high lighted above. As you know, Standard procedure, is to monitor from the ambulance and transfer info to hospital. Saline was given but, by the time we reached the hospital they could not "duplicate", as in see the symptoms from the original call.

 

[dvcochran]

At this point they saw symptoms pertaining to the original call, high lighted above. As you know, Standard procedure, is to monitor from the ambulance and transfer info to hospital. Saline was given but, by the time we reached the hospital they could not "duplicate", as in see the symptoms from the original call.

The way you explain the event it really makes me wonder if dehydration was at play. I can't count the times I have seen it make a body do some really weird stuff.
I really have to be conscious about staying dehydrated. I do feel it has something to do with reduced activity as we get older. We don't 'crave' water like we once did, yet our body still needs the intake. Even though we may not need the water replacement due to sweating, we need the hydration for filtration and such.

 

[KungfukennyG]

Just had my annual physical. I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.

All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled. Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range. Kidney and liver function excellent, all good. The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.

However, my EKG shows Atrial Fibrillation. This is new; I did not have it last year when tested, nor any year previously. My resting pulse rate is in the 80s. Doctor asked me if I have had any issues of light-headedness or dizzyness recently, and I have; mostly in the dojo but sometimes when I stand up from the couch after sitting for awhile.

He put me on a beta blocker and I've made an appointment with a cardiologist for a stress test, echo cardiogram, and I guess I have to wear a harness for a while. Until then, I'm to keep my pulse rate under 150, which means no cardio in the dojo; even when I'm doing kata, if I get to breathing hard, I take a break.

It bothers me to be sitting down while everyone else is working out, but I don't really have a choice. At least until I get a rundown from the cardiologist and hear what I need to be doing.

It's always something, eh?

Bill, I have had a-fib since 2008. I had three procedures -- laser ablations -- to fix it and none of them did, but they shut down my left pulmonary veins. Now I have a-fib and only one lung. I am still able to do martial arts. I know some people who have had a-fib procedures with no problem and fixed the a-fib. I'm one of those 3% of failures. Good luck, but you can still workout. I don't think I ever stopped, and I'm on a couple of heart medicines. We keep going. Just question your doctors relentlessly. Don't accept what they say at face value. Be your own advocate. Good luck.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Just had my annual physical. I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.

All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled. Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range. Kidney and liver function excellent, all good. The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.

However, my EKG shows Atrial Fibrillation. This is new; I did not have it last year when tested, nor any year previously. My resting pulse rate is in the 80s. Doctor asked me if I have had any issues of light-headedness or dizzyness recently, and I have; mostly in the dojo but sometimes when I stand up from the couch after sitting for awhile.

He put me on a beta blocker and I've made an appointment with a cardiologist for a stress test, echo cardiogram, and I guess I have to wear a harness for a while. Until then, I'm to keep my pulse rate under 150, which means no cardio in the dojo; even when I'm doing kata, if I get to breathing hard, I take a break.

It bothers me to be sitting down while everyone else is working out, but I don't really have a choice. At least until I get a rundown from the cardiologist and hear what I need to be doing.

It's always something, eh?

You say you’ve lost a lot of weight? And your potassium is a bit low? And when standing you sometimes have dizziness? What about your magnesium?

I’ve had similar issues and there’s a complex interplay between weightloss, magnesium, potassium, salt (the basic electrolytes) and the vagus nerve that can trigger Afib.

You should definitely subsidize your electrolytes if you’re losing weight.

More important you should look closely at Trulicity as a possible culprit.

Exacerbation of atrial fibrillation related to dulaglutide use

Dulaglutide is associated with sinus tachycardia, increased PR interval, and 1st degree AV block. These conduction abnormalities can increase the risk of arrhythmia. Dulaglutide should be used with caution in patients with pre‐existing arrhythmia.Dulaglutide ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Gyakuto]

Just had my annual physical. I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.

All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled. Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range. Kidney and liver function excellent, all good. The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.

However, my EKG shows Atrial Fibrillation. This is new; I did not have it last year when tested, nor any year previously. My resting pulse rate is in the 80s. Doctor asked me if I have had any issues of light-headedness or dizzyness recently, and I have; mostly in the dojo but sometimes when I stand up from the couch after sitting for awhile.

He put me on a beta blocker and I've made an appointment with a cardiologist for a stress test, echo cardiogram, and I guess I have to wear a harness for a while. Until then, I'm to keep my pulse rate under 150, which means no cardio in the dojo; even when I'm doing kata, if I get to breathing hard, I take a break.

It bothers me to be sitting down while everyone else is working out, but I don't really have a choice. At least until I get a rundown from the cardiologist and hear what I need to be doing.

It's always something, eh?

It’s very common among older people. They try carotid sinus massage (massaging the neck area…which I’ve never seen work), cardioversion (defibrillating under anaesthetic…sometime works temporarily) and occasionally peacemaking. They tend to anticoagulate due to the risk of mural thrombosis forming in the atria and snapping off causing stroke. Anticoagulation is no big deal these days. Digoxin (digitalis) is sometimes prescribed which slows and strengthens the heart beat. It’s a condition that’s very manageable and should have minimal effects upon you life!