Are you bound by tradition?

[Wing Woo Gar]

Boxing won't teach you how to throw, but it can absolutely help you get better at achieving a clinch from which to execute a throw. Becoming proficient at boxing has made me much better at getting the clinch against a striker.

I love close up, it’s my jam.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You do three moves: 1) jab-grab 2) pull-step 3) switch hands, push, cut

In the following clip, how many moved does he do in "switch hands"?

In striking art, you don't need to borrow your opponent's force. In throwing art, when you pull your opponent's arm, you have to give him time to respond.

When your opponent

- resists, you then borrow his resisting force, and push him.
- yields, you then borrow his yielding force, and pull him even more.

Since you won't know whether your opponent is going to resist, or yield, when you use "switch hand" in throwing art, there will be a delay.

 

[marvin8]

No block -> no clinch

If you try to stay in the striking art area, boxing can help you WC. If you try to integrate striking art and throwing art, boxing cannot help you to achieve your goal.

IMO, the praying mantis "switch hands" is the best bridge for striking art and the throwing art integration.

You do 3 moves...

1. step with right foot, jab and grab
2. step with left foot, pull down and forward with right hand
3. bring the right hand up to throat area and push back while reaping leg.

I posted two video clips containing clinching without blocking. What do you mean by the term, "Without block, there will be no clinch?"

I posted two video clips of defending a jab, including Masvidal defending by stepping back and parrying. Do you have a video demoing your "switch hands" using these typical jab defenses?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you have a video demoing your "switch hands" using these typical jab defenses?

The "switch hands" can be used effectively when you attack and your opponent blocks. It's not effective to be used when your opponent throws jab at you.

This is why I don't like the 1-step training that my opponent punches me first. My opponent's jab can be a fake that try to lure my block.

 

[marvin8]

The "switch hands" can be used effectively when you attack and your opponent blocks. It's not effective to be used when your opponent throws jab at you.

This is why I don't like the 1-step training that my opponent punches me first. My opponent's jab can be a fake that try to lure my block.

I did not ask about "when your opponent throws a jab at you."

Do you have a video demoing your "switch hands" against these typical jab defenses?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I did not ask about "when your opponent throws a jab at you."

Do you have a video demoing your "switch hands" against these typical jab defenses?

I don't understand your question. The "jab defense" is "when your opponent throws a jab at you."

The definition of "switch hands" has nothing to do with jab.

You throw right punch and your opponent blocks. You use your left hand to take over your opponent's blocking, free your right hand, so your right hand can punch again.

This is "switch hand".

 

[marvin8]

I don't understand your question. The "jab defense" is "when your opponent throws a jab at you."

The definition of "switch hands" has nothing to do with jab.

You throw right punch and your opponent blocks. You use your left hand to take over your opponent's blocking, free your right hand, so your right hand can punch again.

This is "switch hand".

View attachment 29851

That's not what I said. My question is "Do you have a video demoing your jab feint "switch hands" against these typical jab defenses?"

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That's not what I said. My question is "Do you have a video demoing your jab feint "switch hands" against these typical jab defenses?"

I don't have combat video for that.

 

[marvin8]

I don't have combat video for that.

I am not asking for "combat" video, only demo video.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I am not asking for "combat" video, only demo video.

All my demo video is "I attack first while my opponent is on guard". It's similar to the one I have posted in post 110.

 

[Buka]

Wait, were we supposed to be thinking??

Yeah, that's a damn good point!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Bound by tradition, not bound by tradition ...

If your MA system has jab-cross-jab combo in your form, will you be able to use the same grammar and create your own sentences such as:

- jab-cross-hook?
- jab-hook-uppercut?
- hook-cross-overhand?
- hook-back fist-overhand?
- ...

When you do that, are you cross training something similar to boxing, or are you just evolving your MA system?

In other words, where do we draw the line of "MA system evolution" and "cross training"?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Boxing won't teach you how to throw, but it can absolutely help you get better at achieving a clinch from which to execute a throw. Becoming proficient at boxing has made me much better at getting the clinch against a striker.

Absolutely! In simplest terms, boxing makes you better at dealing with strikers, in general, and gives you the control to make it to click/grappling.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Absolutely! In simplest terms, boxing makes you better at dealing with strikers, in general, and gives you the control to make it to click/grappling.

The

boxing strategy - to dodge a punch (move away from a punch), and
TMA strategy - to intersect a punch (move in toward a punch),

are different.

The throwing art requires you to close the distance. So, I don't know how can boxing be able to help you in your striking art and throwing art integration.

You don't dodge your opponent's punch. Your opponent punches you. You separate his arms away from his head, and move in.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The

boxing strategy - to dodge a punch (move away from a punch), and
TMA strategy - to intersect a punch (move in toward a punch),

are different.

The throwing art requires you to close the distance. So, I don't know how can boxing be able to help you in your striking art and throwing art integration.

You don't dodge your opponent's punch. Your opponent punches you. You separate his arms away from his head, and move in.

As usual, this is a vast oversimplification. Boxing has moves that get closer. They can do it in response to a punch, but it hurts more if they do it while punching you. Which is pretty distracting.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The

boxing strategy - to dodge a punch (move away from a punch), and
TMA strategy - to intersect a punch (move in toward a punch),

are different.

The throwing art requires you to close the distance. So, I don't know how can boxing be able to help you in your striking art and throwing art integration.

You don't dodge your opponent's punch. Your opponent punches you. You separate his arms away from his head, and move in.

marvin8 already posted this video upthread showing boxing clinching methods in action ...

I'll add this one, which teaches some fundamentals of boxing clinching methods.

(This is just an introduction, the boxing clinch game goes much deeper than this.)

Fundamentally, your premise is flawed. The boxing strategy is not just to move away from a punch. Boxing strategy encompasses all of the following:

Moving away from the punch and the opponent.
Slipping the punch while moving towards the opponent.
Parrying the punch.
Blocking the punch.
Smothering the punch.
Interrupting the punch with your own punch.
Hitting the opponent first and then moving out of the way of any return punches.
Hitting the opponent first and then clinching so that the opponent can't hit back.
Tying up the opponent's hands with a long guard so that he can't punch effectively
Controlling the opponent's head with a long guard so that you can redirect the opponent when he tries to attack.
Evading the opponent's punch while simultaneously landing your own.
Evading your opponent's punch so that you end up behind him and can hit him as he turns to face you.
Evading your opponent's punch so that you end up behind him with waist control so you can spin him around in a direction of your choosing.
Crashing in close, body to body, shoulder to chest, head to shoulder so you can press your opponent against the ropes where he can't escape while you ;and close range punches.
... and more.

I just watched a breakdown of the match between Prince Naseem Hamed and Antonio Barrera. At one point in the fight, Barrera got behind Hamed, put him in a half-nelson, and smacked Hamed's head into one of the ring posts. He got a point deducted for that, but probably just for the smacking his head into the post, not for the half-nelson.

 

[isshinryuronin]

marvin8 already posted this video upthread showing boxing clinching methods in action ...

I'll add this one, which teaches some fundamentals of boxing clinching methods.

(This is just an introduction, the boxing clinch game goes much deeper than this.)

Fundamentally, your premise is flawed. The boxing strategy is not just to move away from a punch. Boxing strategy encompasses all of the following:

Moving away from the punch and the opponent.
Slipping the punch while moving towards the opponent.
Parrying the punch.
Blocking the punch.
Smothering the punch.
Interrupting the punch with your own punch.
Hitting the opponent first and then moving out of the way of any return punches.
Hitting the opponent first and then clinching so that the opponent can't hit back.
Tying up the opponent's hands with a long guard so that he can't punch effectively
Controlling the opponent's head with a long guard so that you can redirect the opponent when he tries to attack.
Evading the opponent's punch while simultaneously landing your own.
Evading your opponent's punch so that you end up behind him and can hit him as he turns to face you.
Evading your opponent's punch so that you end up behind him with waist control so you can spin him around in a direction of your choosing.
Crashing in close, body to body, shoulder to chest, head to shoulder so you can press your opponent against the ropes where he can't escape while you ;and close range punches.
... and more.

"Moving away from the punch and opponent", while sometimes required, is the least effective option as it removes you from striking distance. Ideally, your defensive move puts you in position to counter as your other examples indicate. I have used many of these in karate (not so much those with clinching) although likely with a different posture, and a couple other techniques as well: Short circuiting the punch with a palm heel to the upper arm or shoulder (on the inside line) as his power is coming forward. This causes much shock (physical as well as mental) as his total body momentum is suddenly stopped (like walking into a plate glass window you didn't see).

While boxing and karate have many fundamental differences, they have this goal in common: To strike without getting struck.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

When you chose your preferred style of martial art, did you understand the tradition and why it was created?

 

[Taiji Rebel]

When you chose your preferred martial art style, did you understand the original (traditional) goal of its creation?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When you chose your preferred martial art style, did you understand the original (traditional) goal of its creation?

When I chose it? I think. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in the introduction, either at a short demo I saw, or when visiting the school. I'm certain it was taught as part of the history - things that were common (indeed, tested) knowledge for the very first earned belt.