Arab Spring and such

[Xue Sheng]

Or maybe we need to face the fact that democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on who is dinner.

A Cherokee Legend - The Two Wolves

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.

"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego." He continued, "The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

 

[Makalakumu]

A Cherokee Legend - The Two Wolves

Can you provide a link for that? I love it!

 

[Jenna]

You make a good point. Perception sometimes is reality. However, dead soldiers are dead soldiers for real. I don't think I want to commit our troops to yet another war supporting Syria, Libya, or Absurdistan unless I see a real benefit for our nation, not just a perceived one. You want our kids to die so that Al-Jazeera says nice things about us? Not me.

And we've spend enough money, too much money, trying to make the world in our image, trying to make the world a better place, or doing things we think will make people like us. Time for that to stop.



I don't tune in to much of it at all, which is why I'm just barely paying attention with this Syria thing. I understand they are on the tail end of this Arab Uprising thing, and their own government is shooting the hell out of them and blowing them up, and now people think *we* (the US) should do something about it. Well, as far as I can tell, if we help them, they'll finish overthrowing the government, hold elections, elect Islamists, and then declare their eternal hatred towards us and start raising up an army of monster to kill us. Isn't that about it? So, uh, no.



Well, just what I said. I don't watch much TV, and certainly not the major news shows. I don't listen to talk radio. I seldom pay attention to the various right-wing or left-wing blogs unless someone posts something here. But I have noted that so far, the governments in the Middle East that have had 'democracy' have been electing terrorists as leaders, which doesn't strike me as in our best interests. If there's more information I'm not hip to, feel free to clue me in.

And I know it sounds awful, but when Syria bombs their own people? I don't really care. I mean I care, it's terrible, but I don't think that means we should do something about it. Not unless there is some benefit for us in it, which I'm not seeing.

We let the Rwanda Genocide kill 800,000 people, with machetes, for God's sake. We did nothing, not one thing. And this is different how? If Syria wants to overthrow their government, that's on them.

I would not disagree with anything here. Also to the point that you are not particularly interested in Syria, that is perfectly understandable. I believe that is how it is for most people. A passing interest is taken and that passing interest is satisfied by what is perceived and that perception is based upon what is watched and read in western media. This is how governments such as yours and mine in the UK can push toward regime change which is to interfere in a nation's right to sovereignty.

It is exactly as you say, Syria wanting to overthrow their government is an internal civil issue and we in the West have no right to intervene. However being the US/UK/UN axis of control we intervene anyway while the "us" that you referred to are convinced and persuaded of the merit of it. We do so on grounds, some of which are legitimate (though with actual deployments and actions that are very far from legitimate) and other grounds which are frankly disturbing. It is partly on that basis of self-determination that Putin and his people together with the Chinese vetoed the recent Syria resolution. Our media ensures that we perceive their stance of inaction and non-intervention as being practically genocidal. I think in these matters each of us has an obligation to seek a balanced appraisal before committing to support those of our masters that would lead us to a battle that is not ours and in real terms is more costly to us as an individual than beneficial.

In any case, this is purely my opinion. I appreciate your question and your replies. Thank you.

 

[crushing]

Couple things I do not quite understand about our semi-enthusiastic support for the various revolutions and uprisings taking place in the Middle East.

Does that seem like the kind of thing we want to support? Especially militarily? I am trying to understand how helping the Libyans overthrow Kaddafi helped us? Now the Libyan arsenal is spread to the winds and much of it appears to be in the hands of people who hate us, and they may well end up with a government in Libya that imposes Sharia Law and exports more terrorism than Kaddafi ever did. Was that smart?

Just asking. Maybe there are reasons I'm not hip to.

Here are my outrageous thoughts on the so-called 'Arab Spring':

The West is competing with China for resources in Africa, Middle East and Southwest Asia. Because of the history of the West in those regions, the Chinese were seen as a more friendly trading partner and were able to get their foot in the door. Using social media and other methods the West was able to persuade the Libyans to help overthrow a Chinese friendly Kaddafi regime and persuade us that we were the ones helping the Libyans.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14816220

The strangest thing is that the West's bombing of Libya and regime change plans put on hold the delivery of an official UN report, supported by UN resolution, that praised Kaddafi for the great improvements in human rights in Libya over the previous year.

Things just don't add up.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The strangest thing is that the West's bombing of Libya and regime change plans put on hold the delivery of an official UN report, supported by UN resolution, that praised Kaddafi for the great improvements in human rights in Libya over the previous year.

Things just don't add up.

I have not been deeply immersed in the whole thing, but I get what you're saying. I too thought Libya had been upgraded from 'bad boy' status to 'slowly getting it's **** together' status some time previously. And I know that nutbar Kaddafi had been keep his big yap shut for some time.