Appropriate Self Defense

[crazydiamond]

I am still fairly new but getting a wide variety of techniques from simple boxing to more brutal techniques. Some of the things I am trained in I know would seriously injure someone.

How does one learn to measure ones counter measures in self defenses in the heat (panic? fear?) of a real attack? I mean if a drunken guy throws a swing or two - how do you control to use simple blocking, and a few counter jabs, or restraint moves, versus responding out of fear or muscle memory and use moves that would be better served on a truly life threatening response?

I suspect even in a witnessed self dense situation, you might personally, morally, or legally not want to over counter? Is it just working on understanding your attacker well enough, or always starting lower and escalating as needed? My instructors are pretty good about this - occasionally saying "you might not want to use this last move, unless you have to" but I just dont get how you handle this decision in the heat of an attack.

 

[ShortBridge]

It's a very important question with a complicated answer. I'm sure you'll get a lot of good advice here.

You might enjoy the book "Scaling Force", which is written on this exact subject.

 

[Mephisto]

Street smarts and common sense are your allies when applying force. These are issues a legit self defense instructor will cover. But like short bridge added above, there's a lot of reading material available. I'd say generally if you're trying to maim or severely injure an opponent you'd better be able to prove to a judge and jury that you were afraid for your life. If a guy shoves you you're gonna have hard time explaining why you throat punched him and stomped his head. Now if he's significantly bigger or he was with a group, you might have more of a chance in court. Of course, there's plenty of gray area. You could punch a guy who was punching at you and ko him and falls and hits his head and dies.

 

[Shai Hulud]

You may want to check local laws. Where I'm taught, the general rule of thumb is that you use whatever force is necessary to get the target to stop and prevent another attempt on your person. That's anywhere from a joint lock or a KO to a dislocated limb or broken bone. Many possibilities, so long as you make sure you don't cross the boundary with your local authorities.

 

[hoshin1600]

My answer is simple albeit not always possible. Walk away.
If you have to use offensive actions make sure your life depends on it. The actual fight is only the start. Assault charges will follow regardless of who started it. Someone will have it filmed on their phone for evidence. Then even if you are not charged there will also be a civil suit, costing you your life savings to defend against.
So unless your life depends on it, walk away. That's my version of the force continuum.

 

[FriedRice]

I am still fairly new but getting a wide variety of techniques from simple boxing to more brutal techniques. Some of the things I am trained in I know would seriously injure someone.

I suspect even in a witnessed self dense situation, you might personally, morally, or legally not want to over counter?

You can kill someone with "simple boxing". Even if you're not even a good boxer, as a lucky haymaker that lands well can drop your opponent, usually falling backwards....can kill him if he cracks his head open and/or he goes into a coma or dies later at the hospital. It's almost guaranteed to cause some kind of head injury if anyone were to get punched and they crashed their head into the solid, concrete.I have about 4 videos of where this exact thing happened, resulting in death....with around 50 resulting in street KO's.

Contrary to most Self Defense beliefs, hitting someone in the throat or such, is not that brutal and rarely stops the fight. Eye gouging works and so does nut kicks, but just the same would be a KO with one punch as they all seek the similar goal of incapacitation (even temporal) to end the situation, and then to ie., run away. But in general, you may have to stay there until the cops comes even if you weren't the bad guy. So a nutshot may be the best option for proving your case to the cops, the judge, the jury, etc. as this is more of a wimpy move that's considered a womanly strike. But it's worth it if it saves you tens of thousands of $$$$ to maybe $100,000 + jail time, etc.....but if you had to wait for the cops, then you're still in danger once that guy's nuts stopped hurting. While eye strikes can be considered maiming and the bad guy, with a eye patch and missing eyeball, ain't going to admit that he's the attacker in court.

In general, the more you train and get good at fighting through hard sparring time, and really trying to KO your friends and partners in the gym, the less you'll care about needing to prove your skills in the streets, making it much easier to walk away. And if you had to, a decent fighter can just toy with someone in the street with jabs and/or just walk away. It's risky and can also threaten your own life, but it's also fun.

 

[K-man]

You can kill someone with "simple boxing". Even if you're not even a good boxer, as a lucky haymaker that lands well can drop your opponent, usually falling backwards....can kill him if he cracks his head open and/or he goes into a coma or dies later at the hospital. It's almost guaranteed to cause some kind of head injury if anyone were to get punched and they crashed their head into the solid, concrete.I have about 4 videos of where this exact thing happened, resulting in death....with around 50 resulting in street KO's.

Yes you can cause death or severe injury this way but what you have described is hardly 'simple boxing'.

Contrary to most Self Defense beliefs, hitting someone in the throat or such, is not that brutal and rarely stops the fight. Eye gouging works and so does nut kicks, but just the same would be a KO with one punch as they all seek the similar goal of incapacitation (even temporal) to end the situation, and then to ie., run away. But in general, you may have to stay there until the cops comes even if you weren't the bad guy. So a nutshot may be the best option for proving your case to the cops, the judge, the jury, etc. as this is more of a wimpy move that's considered a womanly strike. But it's worth it if it saves you tens of thousands of $$$$ to maybe $100,000 + jail time, etc.....but if you had to wait for the cops, then you're still in danger once that guy's nuts stopped hurting. While eye strikes can be considered maiming and the bad guy, with a eye patch and missing eyeball, ain't going to admit that he's the attacker in court.

Some really bad advice here. Firstly, 'nut shots' as you put it are notoriously unreliable. Secondly, if you know how to strike the neck it is highly effective and finally, in an altercation where you have survived the situation you never hang around to wait for the police. Too many things can go wrong. Leave while you can and contact police later.

In general, the more you train and get good at fighting through hard sparring time, and really trying to KO your friends and partners in the gym, the less you'll care about needing to prove your skills in the streets, making it much easier to walk away. And if you had to, a decent fighter can just toy with someone in the street with jabs and/or just walk away. It's risky and can also threaten your own life, but it's also fun.

Walking away is the only good advice. 'Toying' with someone on the street is just plain dumb.

 

[FriedRice]

Yes you can cause death or severe injury this way but what you have described is hardly 'simple boxing'.

Tell me then, what did I just describe then?

Some really bad advice here. Firstly, 'nut shots' as you put it are notoriously unreliable.

Obviously what's lacking here is your power and precision.

Secondly, if you know how to strike the neck it is highly effective

What's crazy here is that you think that a neck strike is more reliable than a nut kick. I've been punched and kicked in the neck, Adam's Apple, etc. by equally trained fighters who were trying to KO me and it never stopped the fight. I only feel a slight sore throat about an hour later in the showers and it goes away on it's own by the next day or so. While a nut kick have stopped me from fighting for 1-10 minutes. Although, as trained fighters, we have more skill, precision, power, killer instinct and ability to take a beating than you do.

and finally, in an altercation where you have survived the situation you never hang around to wait for the police. Too many things can go wrong. Leave while you can and contact police later.

It depends, your saying never, implies that you have a crystal ball. I'd rather talk to the cops than having others do it for me, especially if they may say that I was the attacker. And my assailant who's hurt, is certainly not going to paint a pretty picture of me. Many things can go wrong if I wait around, but it also depends on where I am, whether it's the ghetto at 2am or if I'm in my own neighborhood or whatever.

Walking away is the only good advice. 'Toying' with someone on the street is just plain dumb.

Some of us enjoys it. It's obviously not for you, just like sparring for KO's in the gym or fighting in the ring for fun, because it takes balls.

 

[Drose427]

Im not sure how big you are size wise,

But everyone i work with in our self defense or free sparring is at least twice my size. 220+lbs, 5'11", etc. Free sparring we go hard, and SD, we go full speed. I dont react properly, i get a broken nose.

Even the guys i work with outside of the training hall are usually much larger and morr intimidating.

Everytime ive used my training in Self Defense, theyve been a bit bigger then me, but not as big as some of the guys i work with.

Hard for me to get intimidated of drunk guy because hes big and aggressive, whem im already working with people like that..

As for whats appropriate self defense? Leave.

Different places have different laws. Here in OH, i was nearly charged with battery cause i fractured a frat boys jaw with an elbow. Incidentally i was wearing the t shirt of my association and spent most of the night talking to the officer at the station. He daid because i had training, i over did it. Didnt matter that the frat boy started the whole thing, was known by Athens PD to start fights to and attack guys to feel macho about himself. Or that fact that he hit me in the back with a haymaker that started the whole thing.

I was the one with training, i should Have been able to take him down withiut significant injury

Most of the students in iur branch schools are from WV, and in similar incidents, that issue never came up.

It hasnt came up any other time ive used my training either,

When it cimes to legalities, it can be a wildcard. You really need to speak to lawyers or Leo's

 

[Jenna]

And if you had to, a decent fighter can just toy with someone in the street with jabs and/or just walk away. It's risky and can also threaten your own life, but it's also fun.

.. awesome! I had never heard a real person - I mean non-tv/movie - say this before.. I am glad I came here tonight Jxx

 

[Drose427]

Tell me then, what did I just describe then?



Obviously what's lacking here is your power and precision.



What's crazy here is that you think that a neck strike is more reliable than a nut kick. I've been punched and kicked in the neck, Adam's Apple, etc. by equally trained fighters who were trying to KO me and it never stopped the fight. I only feel a slight sore throat about an hour later in the showers and it goes away on it's own by the next day or so. While a nut kick have stopped me from fighting for 1-10 minutes. Although, as trained fighters, we have more skill, precision, power, killer instinct and ability to take a beating than you do.



It depends, your saying never, implies that you have a crystal ball. I'd rather talk to the cops than having others do it for me, especially if they may say that I was the attacker. And my assailant who's hurt, is certainly not going to paint a pretty picture of me. Many things can go wrong if I wait around, but it also depends on where I am, whether it's the ghetto at 2am or if I'm in my own neighborhood or whatever.



Some of us enjoys it. It's obviously not for you, just like sparring for KO's in the gym or fighting in the ring for fun, because it takes balls.

you fight in the ring?

Im the UFC, the highest level of trained fighters, guy het hit in the nuts, take 30 seconds and their fine. Sometimes they just wave it off.

Muay Thai kick to the neck is a regular fight ender...

A "haymaker" isnt Simple Boxing. Thats a wild punch, a lack of technique. Quite far from simple.boxing, which is the most refined punching style in the world. The gym I train at as well as the other in my area dont teach it. A haymaker is an idiotic waste of energy that opens you right up.

Eye gouges rarely end the fight. All theyre going to is make the guy start hitting you harder or break the limb if hes restraining you with any sort of submission.

And dont go with the "well youre just untrained" argument, cause that comes straight from bas ruttens mouth.

Many times youve given poor advice or an opinion and several people, many who do compete, have told you its inaccurate. You do not counter with anything i
o ther than "you guys just suck" and "i do MMA" While many of the things you say make it seem like you dont actually train

 

[FriedRice]

you fight in the ring?

Im the UFC, the highest level of trained fighters, guy het hit in the nuts, take 30 seconds and their fine. Sometimes they just wave it off.

A nut shot would just depend on how direct it was hit and/or how hard. Not all the time do they only take 30 seconds. And I was talking about myself taking 1-10 minutes, so obviously I'm not a UFC fighter.

Muay Thai kick to the neck is a regular fight ender...

Not that regularly. Show me 10 Muay Thai fights where a kick to the neck ended the fight.

A "haymaker" isnt Simple Boxing. Thats a wild punch, a lack of technique. Quite far from simple.boxing, which is the most refined punching style in the world. The gym I train at as well as the other in my area dont teach it. A haymaker is an idiotic waste of energy that opens you right up.

This is wrong. A Haymaker is merely a looping punch that usually falls under trickery shots and do work. It's not something that you throw all the time like a jab or straight cross. They're like Overhand Rights that are used sparingly. Look at how Chuck Liddell teach this weird, unorthodox punch.

And there certainly are Haymakers thrown in Pro Boxing.

Eye gouges rarely end the fight. All theyre going to is make the guy start hitting you harder or break the limb if hes restraining you with any sort of submission.

Once again, I never said that eye gouges ALWAYS or even OFTEN, ends the fight. I was responding to the OP, who's obviously not a fighter and seems to be very new, so eye gouging and nut strikes are usually his BETTER weapons.

I got eye poked in a fight and started seeing double vision, could hardly open my eye, tears flowing and in immense pain. The next day, my eye looked like a horror movie and I went to the hospital. If the doc didn't stop that fight, I would have continued but would have just got the crap beaten out of me and suffer a concussion and other injuries, on top of the eye damage.

And dont go with the "well youre just untrained" argument, cause that comes straight from bas ruttens mouth.

Bas Rutten don't know everything nor does what he said in this instance that you're quoting, covers every aspect and situations of fighting. You're probably talking about the PODCAST with Joe Rogan where Bas was talking about some Self Defense bozos....and where the SD girl who's part of this group, said she'd gouge his eyes in an RNC situation. Bas then said, let me put you in the RNC hold, we say "Go", you eye gouge and I snap your neck. Again, I was referring to the OP's skillset, who's a new guy...you want me to advise him to fight like Mike Tyson?

Many times youve given poor advice or an opinion and several people, many who do compete, have told you its inaccurate. You do not counter with anything i
o ther than "you guys just suck" and "i do MMA" While many of the things you say make it seem like you dont actually train

I refuted all of your arguments, if I recall correctly. Afterwhich, you quit from the previous threads. But I'm up for some friendly sparring if anyone wants to. I'm currently in the Washington DC area and move around to many different cities for this job. Let me know.

 

[Drose427]

A nut shot would just depend on how direct it was hit and/or how hard. Not all the time do they only take 30 seconds. And I was talking about myself taking 1-10 minutes, so obviously I'm not a UFC fighter.



Not that regularly. Show me 10 Muay Thai fights where a kick to the neck ended the fight.



This is wrong. A Haymaker is merely a looping punch that usually falls under trickery shots and do work. It's not something that you throw all the time like a jab or straight cross. They're like Overhand Rights that are used sparingly. Look at how Chuck Liddell teach this weird, unorthodox punch.

And there certainly are Haymakers thrown in Pro Boxing.



Once again, I never said that eye gouges ALWAYS or even OFTEN, ends the fight. I was responding to the OP, who's obviously not a fighter and seems to be very new, so eye gouging and nut strikes are usually his BETTER weapons.

I got eye poked in a fight and started seeing double vision, could hardly open my eye, tears flowing and in immense pain. The next day, my eye looked like a horror movie and I went to the hospital. If the doc didn't stop that fight, I would have continued but would have just got the crap beaten out of me and suffer a concussion and other injuries, on top of the eye damage.



Bas Rutten don't know everything nor does what he said in this instance that you're quoting, covers every aspect and situations of fighting. You're probably talking about the PODCAST with Joe Rogan where Bas was talking about some Self Defense bozos....and where the SD girl who's part of this group, said she'd gouge his eyes in an RNC situation. Bas then said, let me put you in the RNC hold, we say "Go", you eye gouge and I snap your neck. Again, I was referring to the OP's skillset, who's a new guy...you want me to advise him to fight like Mike Tyson?



I refuted all of your arguments, if I recall correctly. Afterwhich, you quit from the previous threads. But I'm up for some friendly sparring if anyone wants to. I'm currently in the Washington DC area and move around to many different cities for this job. Let me know.

Clearly you dont watch or train muay thai, since the neck is one of the most popular targets...i just youtube muay thai knockouts on my phone and found a highlight video where 90% of then were a roundhouse to the neck...

Haymakers dont usually get thrown in boxing till both fighters are winded. Even in UFC. When the fighter do start throwing them and wild punches, its brawling not boxing.

Again, you throw a haymaker against an opponent staying tight and disciplined, youre wide open. Hell, last saturday on UFC fightnight on fox a guy got knocked out trying to throw one, hid opponent just immediately threw a beautiful left hook and knocked him out.

The definition of haymaker is listed as a "wild swing"

And actually i was referring to bas and joe saying, doing something like that is only gonna make the attacker snap a limb or beat you harder.

Gouges, nutshots, bites, hair pulls, theyre completely unreliable. I mean these are the last resorts in ANY self defense class, not reliable go to.

Actually you seemed pretty confident that the bwere going to work before.

Finally, you never replied to me in other threads. Im in OH, youre more than welcome to come train with me and my guys.

 

[crazydiamond]

Im not sure how big you are size wise,

6'3 250.

But everyone i work with in our self defense or free sparring is at least twice my size. 220+lbs, 5'11", etc. Free sparring we go hard, and SD, we go full speed. I dont react properly, i get a broken nose.

My Sifu's are small to medium size guys, with 20-25 years of MMA training. Some have competition and street fighting histories. They could kick my *** and have sometimes toyed with me during this first year of my training - sneaking in taps on the head with a smile. But I would say the average drunk guy in the bar or street sees my size and avoids starting something. I am actually kind of a kind of a St. Bernard type dog who is getting acclimated to guard dog training .

As for whats appropriate self defense? Leave.

Yes - I dont want to ever start a fight. I actually am more comfortable then ever walking away from conflict (is that normal after training? its like yeah whatever) My basis here for this post was that I am attacked - and my response to a basic punch or hard hit - might be a throat, eye, or knee, crown of head, hit out of overreaction. I don't throw hay makers - that was drilled out of me - focus on SDA's.

Different places have different laws. Here in OH, i was nearly charged with battery cause i fractured a frat boys jaw with an elbow. Incidentally i was wearing the t shirt of my association and spent most of the night talking to the officer at the station. He said because i had training, i over did it. Didnt matter that the frat boy started the whole thing, was known by Athens PD to start fights to and attack guys to feel macho about himself. Or that fact that he hit me in the back with a haymaker that started the whole thing.

Yes I should check the laws in my area - I am friends with the police chief.....That brings up an issue I have read elsewhere - Martial Artists are treated differently in confrontations. It also goes to my point again - that I should have some measure of control in my response, as I dont want to (legally or morally) have to deal with lethal responses.

I was the one with training, i should Have been able to take him down without significant injury

Yep point exactly.

 

[crazydiamond]

Interesting to hear counter arguments that strikes I though would be seriously injurious might not be - anymore than a strong jab/cross would be. I just assumed punching someone in the throat would result in more serious injury.

 

[FriedRice]

Clearly you dont watch or train muay thai, since the neck is one of the most popular targets...i just youtube muay thai knockouts on my phone and found a highlight video where 90% of then were a roundhouse to the neck...

Clearly you lack reading comprehension skills. I was responding to the OP, who says he "NEW". He ain't going to throw any good high kicks to the neck, being a NEW. I told him to go for the eyes and nuts and you say to fight like Buakaw or other PRO Muay Thai fighters? Hahah.

Haymakers dont usually get thrown in boxing till both fighters are winded. Even in UFC. When the fighter do start throwing them and wild punches, its brawling not boxing.

Once again, reading comprehension. Brawling certainly exists in Boxing. You obviously don't fight because at certain times and sparingly, bad techniques do work. Notice how you conveniently dodged my argument about how Chuck Liddell throws punches. I even linked a YouTube video. What's the matter, former UFC Champion and Hall of Fame(r), Chuck Liddell, not good enough for you?

Again, you throw a haymaker against an opponent staying tight and disciplined, youre wide open. Hell, last saturday on UFC fightnight on fox a guy got knocked out trying to throw one, hid opponent just immediately threw a beautiful left hook and knocked him out.

So this fight dictates all and every instances and occurrences of fights anywhere and everywhere....past, present and future.

The definition of haymaker is listed as a "wild swing"

That could be one definition of it. You're just electing to not list the other definitions. What do you think George Foreman throws a lot of? Ding-ding-ding.

Gouges, nutshots, bites, hair pulls, theyre completely unreliable. I mean these are the last resorts in ANY self defense class, not reliable go to.

This is baloney. Even K-Man will tell you to go for the eyes and nuts. He just won't tell you this when I'm around to risk having to agree with me

Actually you seemed pretty confident that the bwere going to work before.

Of course they work, it's just a wimpy way to fight.

Finally, you never replied to me in other threads. Im in OH, youre more than welcome to come train with me and my guys.

What city in OH? I will pass through there, late July. We meet up at an LA Fitness ok?

 

[Drose427]

Generally,

Clearly you lack reading comprehension skills. I was responding to the OP, who says he "NEW". He ain't going to throw any good high kicks to the neck, being a NEW. I told him to go for the eyes and nuts and you say to fight like Buakaw or other PRO Muay Thai fighters? Hahah.



Once again, reading comprehension. Brawling certainly exists in Boxing. You obviously don't fight because at certain times and sparingly, bad techniques do work. Notice how you conveniently dodged my argument about how Chuck Liddell throws punches. I even linked a YouTube video. What's the matter, former UFC Champion and Hall of Fame(r), Chuck Liddell, not good enough for you?



So this fight dictates all and every instances and occurrences of fights anywhere and everywhere....past, present and future.



That could be one definition of it. You're just electing to not list the other definitions. What do you think George Foreman throws a lot of? Ding-ding-ding.

This is baloney. Even K-Man will tell you to go for the eyes and nuts. He just won't tell you this when I'm around to risk having to agree with me



Of course they work, it's just a wimpy way to fight.



What city in OH? I will pass through there, late July. We meet up at an LA Fitness ok?

First off, I wasnt responding to OP.

You said neck strikes dont work, not him. Dont deflect simply because you were wrong.

Chuck Lidell also took a lot of nasty shots trying to get those in...

As do Brawlers in the ring or cage. When the point of SD is to not get rocked, why would I advocate a move for SD when it makes it easier for your attacker to drop you?

Yes, K-Man will say that as a last resort. He knows exactly how unreliable they are.

Again, thinking theyre going to work with a drunk or a man filled with adrenaline and anger shows you've never dealt with either.

Oh, you do realize that a lot of the punches in your foreman video werent Haymakers right? They were normal crosses, hooks, and uppercuts. Only a few were haymakers..

Like these

Again, if youre talking SD, why would you even advocate something thats just as likely to get your student KO'ed?

 

[FriedRice]

Generally,


"First off, I wasnt responding to OP.

No kidding. I said I was responding to the OP who said he was new.

You said neck strikes dont work, not him. Dont deflect simply because you were wrong.

This is what I said, and it was to the OP: "Contrary to most Self Defense beliefs, hitting someone in the throat or such, is not that brutal and rarely stops the fight."

He's not a PRO MUAY THAI FIGHTER. You can't expect someone who says they're "NEW" to throw KO head kicks that lands in the neck. This is absurd.

Chuck Lidell also took a lot of nasty shots trying to get those in...

Again, can you try to keep up, please? This was in response to you arguing that Haymakers aren't legitimate strikes, not that Chuck Liddell can't get hit because he has some unorthodox punching techniques.

As do Brawlers in the ring or cage. When the point of SD is to not get rocked, why would I advocate a move for SD when it makes it easier for your attacker to drop you?

Then why did you bring up PRO MUAY THAI FIGHTERS, throwing HIGH KICKS to the neck causing KO's in the context of my replying to the OP as a "NEW" person.

Yes, K-Man will say that as a last resort. He knows exactly how unreliable they are.

Again, thinking theyre going to work with a drunk or a man filled with adrenaline and anger shows you've never dealt with either.

Once again, try to keep up and work on reading your comprehension. Again, it was directed towards the OP being new, which would make eye & groin strikes, his best strikes. And you just made a dumb implication that eyes and groin strikes would never work against someone "drunk" or filled with adrenaline and anger".

Oh, you do realize that a lot of the punches in your foreman video werent Haymakers right? They were normal crosses, hooks, and uppercuts. Only a few were haymakers..

Haha, show me where I said Foreman only throws Haymakers or even MOSTLY, Haymakers. Man, how old are you? I'm starting to question whether I'm talking to a child here. Post #11, you said:

"A "haymaker" isnt Simple Boxing. Thats a wild punch, a lack of technique. Quite far from simple.boxing, which is the most refined punching style in the world. The gym I train at as well as the other in my area dont teach it. A haymaker is an idiotic waste of energy that opens you right up." --Drose427

And you just admitted that Foreman does indeed throw Haymakers. And quite a few that were significant to knock down punches in that video were, HAYMAKERS. Notice, because I know that this is a challenge for you....but I said "quite a few" and not ALL, not many, not most, not plethora, etc.....just QUITE A FEW.

Like these
Again, if youre talking SD, why would you even advocate something thats just as likely to get your student KO'ed?

Show me where I said that the Haymaker is a perfect technique? Do you even understand what this means? Anyone can get caught with a counter. There's a counter to everything.

This is what I said:

"A Haymaker is merely a looping punch that usually falls under trickery shots and do work. It's not something that you throw all the time like a jab or straight cross. They're like Overhand Rights that are used sparingly. Look at how Chuck Liddell teach this weird, unorthodox punch."--FriedRice

Do you see anywhere that I said it was a perfect technique and no one can get caught with a counter while throwing them?

 

[Drose427]

Duh, no kidding. I said I was responding to the OP who said he was new. Can you try to keep up?



This is what I said, and it was to the OP: "Contrary to most Self Defense beliefs, hitting someone in the throat or such, is not that brutal and rarely stops the fight."

He's not a PRO MUAY THAI FIGHTER. You can't expect someone who says they're "NEW" to throw KO head kicks that lands in the neck. This is absurd.



Again, can you try to keep up, please? This was in response to you arguing that Haymakers aren't legitimate strikes, not that Chuck Liddell can't get hit because he has some unorthodox punching techniques.



Then why did you bring up PRO MUAY THAI FIGHTERS, throwing HIGH KICKS to the neck causing KO's in the context of my replying to the OP as a "NEW" person.



Once again, try to keep up and work on reading your comprehension. Again, it was directed towards the OP being new, which would make eye & groin strikes, his best strikes. And you just made a dumb implication that eyes and groin strikes would never work against someone "drunk" or filled with adrenaline and anger".



Haha, show me where I said Foreman only throws Haymakers or even MOSTLY, Haymakers. Man, how old are you? I'm starting to question whether I'm talking to a child here. Post #11, you said:

"A "haymaker" isnt Simple Boxing. Thats a wild punch, a lack of technique. Quite far from simple.boxing, which is the most refined punching style in the world. The gym I train at as well as the other in my area dont teach it. A haymaker is an idiotic waste of energy that opens you right up." --Drose427



Show me where I said that the Haymaker is a perfect technique? Do you even understand what this means? Anyone can get caught with a counter. There's a counter to everything.

This is what I said:

"A Haymaker is merely a looping punch that usually falls under trickery shots and do work. It's not something that you throw all the time like a jab or straight cross. They're like Overhand Rights that are used sparingly. Look at how Chuck Liddell teach this weird, unorthodox punch."--FriedRice

Do you see anywhere that I said it was a perfect technique and no one can get caught with a counter while throwing them?

it isnt just Pro Thai fighters......Militaries teach neck strikes in H2H. It doesnt even have to be a kick. Heck, this is even taught in Womens Self Defense Weekend classes,

Whether hes new or not, gouges and nut shots are not good targets.... any LEO or Bouncer can tell you that...Adrenaline and Alcohol can let the body do amazing things.

you said, and I quote "What do you think George Foreman throws a lot of?" When Haymakers were the minority punch in the video you provided for "evidence"

Its not a matter of perfect technique, its a matter of teaching a tech for SD thats irresponsible, overly risky, and dangerous for SD. Its just like your, "Im just gonna jab someone coming at me with a knife" argument. Nowhere is teaching that for SD, just like nobody is telling their students, new or old, to just eye gouge and groin shot.

This again, makes me question that you train in anything.

You can make personal attacks towards me all you want. But quite honestly, your personality, posting style and grammar, and lack of understanding of Basic SD makes you seem like a 16 - 20 year old MMA fan who hasnt trained and wants the ego boost.

 

[FriedRice]

it isnt just Pro Thai fighters......Militaries teach neck strikes in H2H. It doesnt even have to be a kick. Heck, this is even taught in Womens Self Defense Weekend classes,

First, can you respond to the Personal Message that I sent you in regards to our meeting up for some friendly sparring?

And here, if you're saying that it doesn't have to be kicks to the neck, then WHY did you tell me about how PRO MUAY THAI FIGHTERS can KO with high kicks to the neck in the first place then, and then imply that a "NEW" person should use such high kicks?

I already know that SD, Military, etc. teaches strikes to the neck. That's why I clearly said that "neck strikes rarely work" as my argument and not that they never work.

Whether hes new or not, gouges and nut shots are not good targets.... any LEO or Bouncer can tell you that...Adrenaline and Alcohol can let the body do amazing things.

Wait so you're saying here that a NEW GUY, should strike the NECK instead of the EYES or NUTS because the EYES and NUTS are less effective targets than the NECK? Are you serious?

And if "Adrenaline and Alcohol can let the body do amazing things", then wouldn't they do the same to the NECK? Do you see how absurd your arguments are?

And why do you keep bringing up Bouncers and LEO's. There's a ton of LEO's and Bouncers training at the MMA gyms that I train at. I also bounce once in a while for cash and fun, this ain't no big deal. I even said that adrenaline will lessen the effects of neck strikes.

you said, and I quote "What do you think George Foreman throws a lot of?" When Haymakers were the minority punch in the video you provided for "evidence"

That was a highlight reel, But if you watch Foreman's fights, he does throw a lot of Haymakers. You still said this about Haymakers"

"A "haymaker" isnt Simple Boxing. Thats a wild punch, a lack of technique. Quite far from simple.boxing, which is the most refined punching style in the world. The gym I train at as well as the other in my area dont teach it. A haymaker is an idiotic waste of energy that opens you right up."--Drose427

So why do you keep dodging this? Tell me why does one of the biggest ICON of Boxing, not only throws Haymakers, but he trains such technique and is known to cause KD's and KO's with them?

Its not a matter of perfect technique, its a matter of teaching a tech for SD thats irresponsible, overly risky, and dangerous for SD.

You obviously aren't a fighter nor an advanced student, so of course unorthodox techniques shouldn't be taught to you and jsut the basics. But you don't need to teach someone a Haymaker, it's merely a wide, looping hook and I already told you this.

Its just like your, "Im just gonna jab someone coming at me with a knife" argument. Nowhere is teaching that for SD, just like nobody is telling their students, new or old, to just eye gouge and groin shot.

There are videos of this on YouTube.

Once again, you're wrong. And show me where I said "telling their students, new or old, to just eye gouge and groin shot."?

Can you show me where I said this? Otherwise you're making it up or lying, again.

This again, makes me question that you train in anything.

I question whether you train at all, also, because usually you'd have to be at least a certain age to train MMA.

You can make personal attacks towards me all you want. But quite honestly, your personality, posting style and grammar, and lack of understanding of Basic SD makes you seem like a 16 - 20 year old MMA fan who hasnt trained and wants the ego boost.

I feel the same way about you. The only way to find out is in July, so I'm still waiting for you to answer my PM.