Applied Wing Chun is almost karate

[PiedmontChun]

I realize, and will admit, that I might have been hasty in my criticism (see above). It is a short clip, and its not fair to make such generalized opinions on such a snippet, for sure.
As far as my take on leg checking a round kick, I would say that the execution of it as briefly shown in the video, with a visible outward turning of the stance to throw the leg out and intercept the kick, simply makes it appear to my eyes like it was extracted from Muay Thai rather than an application of the WC front kick or Chum Kiu knee. Some other kickboxing elements in that video seemed to imply maybe there was some WC / kickboxing hybrid going on so maybe I can be forgiven if I am way off base.
When dealing with a round kick, I was taught to close the distance when possible and take away the range where the opponents has power, bridging the kick with Gan or Gwat. I was also taught to use what is essentially a front kick technique by raising the knee to deflect an incoming kick and then propel forward into an opponent's stance, but as more of a last resort if it is too late to step in.

 

[Danny T]

Well I learned both to intercept the roundhouse kick with the lower leg but not in the same manner as a thai leg check (shin to shin) that would be meeting force against force. But the reality of fighting is that it happens. As for kicking we do have roundhouse type kicking. Closing the distance is what we want to do but again in reality it simply doesn't happen like we want so that has to be dealt with as well. We train and practice for what we want to do but we also have to deal with what actually happens vs what should happen.

 

[TSDTexan]

Well I learned both to intercept the roundhouse kick with the lower leg but not in the same manner as a thai leg check (shin to shin) that would be meeting force against force. But the reality of fighting is that it happens. As for kicking we do have roundhouse type kicking. Closing the distance is what we want to do but again in reality it simply doesn't happen like we want so that has to be dealt with as well. We train and practice for what we want to do but we also have to deal with what actually happens vs what should happen.

Practice for the ideal and the worse case scenario.
Plan B is a settlement of an imperfect plan A.
I would venture to say letting a shin (baseball bat) strike the sciatic nerve is an excercise in losing mobility at best, or an opportunity to find yourself puking on the ground or with a broken femor at worst.
The Okinawan Cut kick, or Muay Thai cut kick is an excellent offensive weapon.

It should be in every martial art. Or in everymartial artist's tool set if one has flanked the opponent. It should also be trained by all artists to have a reliable counter against it.

If this Applied WC uses the Thai counter.. shin on shin...
I am proud of them for evolving WC to accept a valid exception to the "dont counter force with force" tenant.
The best defense is evading the shot, but it should be acknowledged for the serious threat that it is.
Soft deflection is more keeping with WC.

But in a real scenario this is a perfect opportunity to kick the supporting leg, and compromise the root structure of the kicker. A fast push kick could easily stop it.

Followed with swarming chain fists if the guy falls back into a wall, fence... etc

It's low enough that catching it isn't a threat.
And most artists and fighters are oblivious to it.
Kimbo Slice lost a ufc bout because of it.

Of course even if the femor does not break... the shin will hammer the nerve against the bone as if were on a blacksmith's anvil.

 

[Danny T]

Practice for the ideal and the worse case scenario.
Plan B is a settlement of an imperfect plan A.
I would venture to say letting a shin (baseball bat) strike the sciatic nerve is an excercise in losing mobility at best, or an opportunity to find yourself puking on the ground or with a broken femor at worst.
The Okinawan Cut kick, or Muay Thai cut kick is an excellent offensive weapon.

It should be in every martial art. Or in everymartial artist's tool set if one has flanked the opponent. It should also be trained by all artists to have a reliable counter against it.

If this Applied WC uses the Thai counter.. shin on shin...
I am proud of them for evolving WC to accept a valid exception to the "dont counter force with force" tenant.
The best defense is evading the shot, but it should be acknowledged for the serious threat that it is.
Soft deflection is more keeping with WC.

But in a real scenario this is a perfect opportunity to kick the supporting leg, and compromise the root structure of the kicker. A fast push kick could easily stop it.

Followed with swarming chain fists if the guy falls back into a wall, fence... etc

It's low enough that catching it isn't a threat.
And most artists and fighters are oblivious to it.
Kimbo Slice lost a ufc bout because of it.

Of course even if the femor does not break... the shin will hammer the nerve against the bone as if were on a blacksmith's anvil.
View attachment 19571

...and why proper tempering is also a very important aspect of training.
As a Muay Thai practitioner I am well aware of the using the shin for leg checks and the tempering it takes for leg and body kicks.

 

[Jake104]

"...combat wc." ???
What is that vs wing chun? I say if you aren't doing some training as shown in the video you aren't seriously training your wing chun and your skills will always be lacking.

We wear commando outfits with combat boots and berets. Jk. I wish!

 

[Danny T]

We wear commando outfits with combat boots and berets. Jk. I wish!

We wear Black pants and carry knives. Can we do combat wc?

 

[TSDTexan]

We wear Black pants and carry knives. Can we do combat wc?

....waaaaaaaiiiiiiiitttttt!!!!!!!
We have black pants in our "b. uniform" which are worn out of doors with footgear....
So can we do combat karate?

 

[Jake104]

We wear Black pants and carry knives. Can we do combat wc?

Yes, since you asked nicely.

 

[Jake104]

....waaaaaaaiiiiiiiitttttt!!!!!!!
We have black pants in our "b. uniform" which are worn out of doors with footgear....
So can we do combat karate?

Yes you can too. Everybody is welcome. All traditional Martial arts can be combative (I think?). Just train realistically. Clothing, knives and face painting is all optional.

 

[Danny T]

Yes, since you asked nicely.

Yes you can too. Everybody is welcome. All traditional Martial arts can be combative (I think?). Just train realistically. Clothing, knives and face painting is all optional.

Wow..., Thank You So Much..., Am So Excited...I'm not going to be able to contain myself!!!

 

[TSDTexan]

Wow..., Thank You So Much..., Am So Excited...I'm not going to be able to contain myself!!!

I think I peed my shorts with excitement.
Wer'e gonna be ninja rocks stars!!!!

Going to shoot an email to Master Ken, and tell him his Ameridote is old news. He needs black pants and an ugprade in the name.

"Combat Ameri-do-te"


Note to self.. need to make a list of adjectived to slap on a name.

First we start with the translation of Taichi
supreme ultimate fist..
Already has black pants... check.

Tactical Combatives Supreme Ultimate Fist
Realistic training consists of dringing tea. And pushing hands. And Fast forms... not the slow rendition commonly seen.

Needs monkey. . . No.. Combat Monkey kung fu.


Tactical Combatives Supreme Ultimate Fist, Now, with Combat Monkey Boxing.

Includes special patch: "The Master Boss, Sho Nuff"
Free with order. Please select VHS, or DVD when placing your order. First 10 orders recieve limited edition "I'm Stronger than over 9000 Sayains in God Mode" TShirt. Have your credit card ready when placing your order for Tactical Combatives Supreme Ultimate Fist, Now, with Combat Monkey Boxing.

 

[Jake104]

Wow..., Thank You So Much..., Am So Excited...I'm not going to be able to contain myself!!!

Get a hold of yourself man! Just Breathe! In through your nose out through mouth. Better now?

 

[Jake104]

I think I peed my shorts with excitement.
Wer'e gonna be ninja rocks stars!!!!

Going to shoot an email to Master Ken, and tell him his Ameridote is old news. He needs black pants and an ugprade in the name.

"Combat Ameri-do-te"


Note to self.. need to make a list of adjectived to slap on a name.

First we start with the translation of Taichi
supreme ultimate fist..
Already has black pants... check.

Tactical Combatives Supreme Ultimate Fist
Realistic training consists of dringing tea. And pushing hands. And Fast forms... not the slow rendition commonly seen.

Needs monkey. . . No.. Combat Monkey kung fu.


Tactical Combatives Supreme Ultimate Fist, Now, with Combat Monkey Boxing.

Includes special patch: "The Master Boss, Sho Nuff"
Free with order. Please select VHS, or DVD when placing your order. First 10 orders recieve limited edition "I'm Stronger than over 9000 Sayains in God Mode" TShirt. Have your credit card ready when placing your order for Tactical Combatives Supreme Ultimate Fist, Now, with Combat Monkey Boxing.

So am I being clowned by you two? Kind of seems like it now? Oh well, I'm a good sport. Not a bi. Tch, but I'am a good sport. Laughs on me this time fellas.

 

[TSDTexan]

So am I being clowned by you two? Kind of seems like it now? Oh well, I'm a good sport. Not a bi. Tch, but I'am a good sport. Laughs on me this time fellas.

It is good to not take ourselves too seriously.

 

[Jake104]

Don't worry I took my meds. I'm the first one to clown around on here or use self deprecating humor.

I do take what I train seriously though. If the original question by Danny was serious of what combat WC is, or why my teacher calls it that? It's in my original post. It's the opposite of what fantasy fu is. I think he might of been asking what makes what we do so combative? Nothing.... It's what we don't do that makes it combative. All WC should be combative ( since WC isn't a sport based art) but most fail miserably. Most training methods are comical at best in terms of reality. One thing I don't do on here is bash other lineages. Specifically that is. Since my last sentence is kinda bashing WC in general.

 

[TSDTexan]

Don't worry I took my meds. I'm the first one to clown around on here or use self deprecating humor.

I do take what I train seriously though. If the original question by Danny was serious of what combat WC is, or why my teacher calls it that? It's in my original post. It's the opposite of what fantasy fu is. I think he might of been asking what makes what we do so combative? Nothing.... It's what we don't do that makes it combative. All WC should be combative ( since WC isn't a sport based art) but most fail miserably. Most training methods are comical at best in terms of reality. One thing I don't do on here is bash other lineages. Specifically that is. Since my last sentence is kinda bashing WC in general.

One thing that had made WC weak... at least American WC... is a lack of challenge matches. These were very common in Hong Kong and Taiwan. Real fights validated trainging methods. One of Ip Mans better students was critiqued harshly by Ip Man. So the guy threw down a challenge, Ip Man beat him fiercely. The guy humbly begged to be accepted as Ip Mans student. This guy is fairly important in VT lineage.

We dont see actual fighting as quality control. But it is and historically always was in WC. The fact that wing chun kicked so much Azss, was that it was a pretty young CMA and had to work.

Pressure testing wasn't done on mats.
It was done on the streets and alleys.

Losing a challenge meant losing your students. Winning, well that leads to more challenges, and potentially more students.

Most teachers taught to family, coworkers and close friends if they wanted to avoid Challenge fights.

Bad methods creep in, and then get transferred to the next generation.


"Oh...I heard you won that fight against so and so.... in fact your kung fu is quite good... I am here to try it"
It wasnt just in the movies... but an honored tradition in the CMAs

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

a lack of challenge matches.

You should not wait for others to challenge you, if you truly want to test your skill against other styles, you should test your skill in tournaments.

 

[TSDTexan]

You should not wait for others to challenge you, if you truly want to test your skill against other styles, you should test your skill in tournaments.

Mortal Combat!
*Gonnnggggg*
Test your might, fight!
*Gonnnngggg*

Finish Him!.....
Oh... there was nothing original about the movie Mortal Combat.

Yeah... my point still remains tho, brother Wong.
Americans have weaker WC due to a lack of challenge matches... aka real fighting.

I would love to see a K1 type fighting franchise for WC peope to mix it with Kyokushin-kai guys.
I wonder how true to traditional WC they would remain in thw ring.

 

[Danny T]

Don't worry I took my meds. I'm the first one to clown around on here or use self deprecating humor.

I do take what I train seriously though. If the original question by Danny was serious of what combat WC is, or why my teacher calls it that? It's in my original post. It's the opposite of what fantasy fu is. I think he might of been asking what makes what we do so combative? Nothing.... It's what we don't do that makes it combative. All WC should be combative ( since WC isn't a sport based art) but most fail miserably. Most training methods are comical at best in terms of reality. One thing I don't do on here is bash other lineages. Specifically that is. Since my last sentence is kinda bashing WC in general.

I like to have fun. Sometimes at my expense and other times at someone else's.

As to: "...what makes what we do so combative?"
To me wing chun is a combative system. It is about using one's body in a fight situation and if your training and practice doesn't have a combative feel then you aren't training wing chun. You may be training some wing chun movements and actions but it isn't wing chun the martial training system. Just as some train aerobic/fitness kickboxing but that doesn't mean one is training in a kickboxing martial art.
Hence my question
"...combat wc." ??? What is that vs wing chun?"
and remark:
"I say if you aren't doing some training as shown in the video you aren't seriously training your wing chun and your skills will always be lacking."
To call your wing chun 'combat wc' is a redundant statement.

 

[Phobius]

To call your wing chun 'combat wc' is a redundant statement.

I think the point was that his Wing Chun is named 'Combat WC' and is done so simply to show respect to its root while still focusing more on sharpening a few of the techniques rather than being a jack-of-all-techniques. It could just as simply be named 'ABC guide to a good combat experience' but such a name would just get someone to complain that it is too similar to WC.

It is WC, just a bit of different focus from what I hear. Problem is that if techniques are removed in order to sharpen others, the next generation might not know the techniques exist and are unable to sharpen what would work best for them but rather enforce usage of other techniques. How is this mitigated in 'Combat WC', a question of pure curiousity.

See nothing wrong in sharpening, it is one of those words my sifu mentions all the time. It is the way we study as well but perhaps slightly less sharpening as we dont leave techniques out but rather validate their use to ourself before moving on.