Applied Kenpo

[Rainman]

Not every one looks at AK the same way. In fact it can have many faces. Is it a striking system, a grappling system, weapon system or is it the ultimate chameleon of adaptability? Do you need to go outside the art or can AK absorb everything else?

:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

I believe that kenpo has just about everything you need in it as long as you looked hard enough. I'll leave that as that. Now my personal opinion. Here goes the old saying there's always someone better. I really like that saying. We as students need to have an instructor who knows all the in's and out's of our kenpo system and can give the answers of how and why this move works or doesn't work. When I was training with my first instructor in my TKD days I met a TKD instructor through my instructor that was in the olympic trials 2 times. I trained with this gentleman for about 4-5 months. I got beat around every class and learned something each time. Just to start class we warmed up with 1100 kicks. The only kicks we did were front snap, sidekick, roundhouse, hook kick, back kick, and jump spin back kicks every so often a spinning roundhouse. Anyway my point was I don't know how many kenpo schools do that but also I learned how to really kick well from that man. Without having that much repetition all of the time my kicks might not be as good. Now onto my second point. I have a good friend that teachees JJ. Almost every one of his students are excellent grapplers. Every so often he let's me come into his class and participate. I wrestled for 6 yrs. in school so I kind of know my way around on the mat. Well to my surprise I was able to hang with the white, yellow, and orange belts (some of them). Now I'm going to say if you think kenpo is a great art (it is) just go try out someone else's class to see just how good your skills are in that field of martial arts. I would encourage anyone to do this.
These are just my thoughts.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Turner]

One of the most common phrases I've heard in the Martial Arts is "You get out of it what you put into it." When you look at any art you can find what you want to find if you dig deep enough. You don't need to go outside of AK in order to find it if you are willing to dig, but sometimes it is good to go outside of the art in order to figure out what to dig for and then come back to AK and say "Oh, it was right there in front of my eyes."

As I tell my students; all I need is a punch, a kick and a little motion for my potion and I can make you any technique ever dreamed up.

 

[Goldendragon7]

In a live and evolving art anything is possible.
:asian:

 

[Zoran]

I see nothing wrong with "taking" what works from other arts and incorporating it. I myself do not cross-train exactly. What I do is take what I learn from other martial artists, analyze the concept or technique logically, and may incorporate it with some modification. Now, do I want to go and sign up to another MA school? Nope, don't see a need. Do I sometimes attend seminars on other systems? Yup, even if it's just for curiousity sake.

Posted by Turner

You don't need to go outside of AK in order to find it if you are willing to dig, but sometimes it is good to go outside of the art in order to figure out what to dig for and then come back to AK and say "Oh, it was right there in front of my eyes."

Great, couldn't say it better. Just wanted to add for those that do find something in another style. Discuss the concept or technique with your instructor. Don't just assume it is this great technique that you found. You may be surprised to find out that your instructor already knows the technique. He may even know how to do it better.

 

[Seig]

Until I found this board and some of the gentlemen on it, the only real flaw I found with Kenpo, was a whole lot of closed minds. When circumstances forced me 1100 miles away from my instructor, I came across Infinite Insights Vol1. I was utterly delighted with it. It reaffirmed everything my instructor taught me and alot of things I already believed. It also opened my mind back up. The one thing that bothers me to no end is that everyone insists that something be done a certain way, yet no two AK systems can agree on that certain way. Yet, if I interpreted my readings correctly, SGM Parker said to set nothing in stone. EPAK is the science of motion, something set in stone cannot move. Aspects of every art can be found within every other art, some arts may specialize in one particular aspect and become outstanding at it, does that make their art better? No, it means they studied one aspect more thoroughly than someone else did. If one particular fighter wins every event he enters, does that mean his art is superior and every one should study it, or does it mean he is a superior fighter and found a niche within a particular system? The other night, I was examining Raining Lances with a few of my Brown Belts, we went through the technique several ways, and then I started applying other theories and ides to the technique and we came up with something completely different, but we remained true to the Key Moves within the technique. Does that mean I went outside of AK to do something, or that in reality, because I questioned, modified and experimented that I stayed firmly within SGM Parker's framework? What I guess I am getting at, is that if SGM Parker were with us, he would say work, experiment, learn, grow. At least, since I was not priveledged enough to meet him and am translating his works, that's what i think and hope he would say.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Zoran

I see nothing wrong with "taking" what works from other arts and incorporating it. I myself do not cross-train exactly. What I do is take what I learn from other martial artists, analyze the concept or technique logically, and may incorporate it with some modification. Now, do I want to go and sign up to another MA school? Nope, don't see a need. Do I sometimes attend seminars on other systems? Yup, even if it's just for curiousity sake.

Great, couldn't say it better. Just wanted to add for those that do find something in another style. Discuss the concept or technique with your instructor. Don't just assume it is this great technique that you found. You may be surprised to find out that your instructor already knows the technique. He may even know how to do it better.

:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

I was up too late last night posting the previous article. What I really wanted to get to was this, Kenpo is a great thinking art with so many different ideas and concepts I do believe we have pretty much everything within the art. It's up to each individual to search and apply the material to the best of our abilities. Now if you go into another martial arts school that specializes in a specific area I see no harm in learning from that individual. You just might find better ways or more effective ways to build upon your own knowledge by applying the material learned. If you want to see how good you can kick try a TKD school. They have some different ideas and drills in the curriculum. If you think you can grapple go and jump into a JJ class somewhere. Try to use what you have learned against someone that has been drilling a grappling art for a while. That's is just another way to get better. A person might find flaws in their training that you want to get better on. Once again these are just my opinions and nothing more than that.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[tonbo]

I have seen a bunch of other "stuff", both from other styles and other Kenpo schools. When I see things that I like, and would like to add to my own practice, I try to "kenpoize" it--I try to analyze what I have seen (or think that I have seen...hehe) and apply Kenpo principles to it.

Then I take it to my instructor and ask for his take on it. More often than not, I am surprised, as he is able to add a few new dimensions to it. It never fails to make me laugh, seeing what is blatantly obvious to him, and that I have missed because I don't know enough.

Good stuff, though.

Yet another reason I love Kenpo.....it is very much an "alive" art....

Peace--

 

[Rainman]

Got a good group for this thread.
:asian:

The most frustrating thing I've encountered are people that have all the answers. By all means expose yourself to other arts and people. For people who practice on the ground our 3- dimensional footwork and teks using the heart of the art (cpt)have a lot of it covered. Some examples: "shrimping" a cross to the rear while seated or on the side etc. Triangle choke= Hopping Crane- which is also a rolling armbar so that you end up with your body face down. Exact same movements you're just on the ground.

It is the individual's choice to become strong or weak in a particular departments area.

:asian:

 

[Roland]

He tells us that in the old days, they would do a little of everything.
They would fight, grapple, apply locks, technique lines, do hundreds of punches from basic horse stances, take a stick class if some Filipino came in.
I believe he calls it Kenpo Fusion now, but before, it was just "ALL GOOD"!

 

[Turner]

For people who practice on the ground our 3- dimensional footwork and teks using the heart of the art (cpt)have a lot of it covered. Some examples: "shrimping" a cross to the rear while seated or on the side etc. Triangle choke= Hopping Crane- which is also a rolling armbar so that you end up with your body face down. Exact same movements you're just on the ground.

I whole heartedly agree. I've been seeing the exact same thing when practicing on the ground. That is what AK is all about to me... principles based on the analysis of motion. Some say that the heart of a martial art is its techniques and forms <this is a whole 'nuther topic> which I feel limits that individuals ability to grow. You can study all of the self defense techniques and forms for years upon years and never be able to apply them when you need to. However, if you understand the principles behind AK and never see a form or technique you will be able to defend yourself when the time comes. What are the techniques and forms but the principles in action? Its like the final fight scene in The Matrix; The Agents were shooting bullets, but since it was all taking place in a computer, Neo knew that it was all just 1's and 0's and could easily stop them. We aren't in a computer and a little more complex than 1's and 0's (I think) but we are still governed by God/scientific truths (which-ever you choose to focus on) and knowing those laws/principles intimately allows you to stop the attack no matter how irratic or unpredictable your assailant may be.

 

[Rainman]

You can study all of the self defense techniques and forms for years upon years and never be able to apply them when you need to. However, if you understand the principles behind AK and never see a form or technique you will be able to defend yourself when the time comes. What are the techniques and forms but the principles in action?

Very cool you have discovered the same things I have from different sources and opposite ends of the country, however a slight alteration should be injected in the above thought. There is an exactness from the teks/forms as they relate to (CPT) that merrits study. The manifestation from the ideas to the physical works much faster this way. Of course just my opinion and a debatable one at that.

Who do you train under Mr. Turner?

:asian:

 

[Turner]

I'm currently not training under anyone, but am in the process of getting things in order so that I can learn AK.

The grappling/kenpo connection is one that really fascinates me.
Escaping from the mount is virtually a push block <to knee> with a downward block <to hips> followed by a crossout <snake/shrimp move.>

Moving from the guard to the mount <basic scissor legs> is basically a pivot from a horse stance facing 12 o'clock to a closed kneel facing 9 o'clock stepping throught to a horse stance facing 6 o'clock.

Picking apart techniques and analyzing them is what fascinates me about the martial arts. I hope to learn AK because it actually provides the tools to do that.

 

[Rainman]

Very good especially for a young cat. I have had conversations with guys that have 25 years in AK that argue tooth and nail against this stuff. Try crashing wings for the full mount escape and let me know what you come up with under heat. Haven't tried this one with my group yet but keep it verbatum you should end in his guard. Lots of apps for the hands let me know what you end up with.

:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

In a live and evolving art anything is possible.
:asian:

Then there is hope for me after all!:boing2:

 

[Goldendragon7]

:asian:

 

[Seig]

While I have trained with it a lot, I still don't like grappling. The first thing my instructor said to me was that the very fact I don't like it makes me better at it then I would otherwise be. He taped on of my matched with another senior student who had studied more ground work than I had. I beat him because when we went to the ground I went for the quick and dirty so I could get back to my feet. Now a few years later, I understand it. I think learning to ground fight is immensly important and do teach it. I think that, after reading all your comments on the subject, that I will try using the standing techniques in a ground fighting scenario.

 

[Turner]

I am extremely passionate about providing people with what they need in terms of self defense. The most common crime, aside from drug possession, in my community is rape. To me, that is intolerable. I love working the night shift because I can be alone to think in peace and a lot of people see me as being antisocial. Perhaps, but I have a huge soft spot for people. Hearing statistics like 1 in 3 women will be raped, primarily by someone that they know and trust both boils my blood and brings a tear to my eye. My only true skill is martial arts. For many years I've hated the fact that while I'm good at so many things, I only have the enthusiasm for the martial arts. I realize now that my passion is a great gift to be shared with the world. Both the men and the women of our communities need us. In mine particular, the women need to learn how to protect themselves and be made aware of the risks. The men need to learn the mental aspects of warriorship; Honor, Obligation and Justice.

The Kenpo/grappling combination is perfect for that... I believe in giving people what they need before giving them what they want. In my area there is a lot of sport-dedicated arts. There seem to be two sport-oriented TKD schools per block and only 5 other classes aside. 2 Karate/TKD combinations also sport oriented. 2 sport-oriented Judo classes and a BJJ class (one I am considering attending). People are getting what they want, but not what they need. In my research I've seen a lot of women's self defense courses that focus soley on stand-up... that is just plain stupid in my humble onion. 1-in-3 women will be raped by someone they know. Its not going to be some brute jumping out of the bushes (though it does happen here), its going to be someone that the woman trusts and is intimate with and things go too far. She's got to learn how to escape after being pinned down. TKD, Karate and even those Kenpo guys who refuse to teach how things are associated together aren't going to be much of a help. They are shirking their responsibility as self-defense instructors if they ignore the ground. You give a kid his dinner before you give him ice cream. You pay your bills before you go buy the new set of clothes. You give a person what they need before you give them what they want. If you do otherwise you are being irresponsible and responsibility is part of being honorable in my book.

But that's just me... what do I know?

 

[Seig]

I did it. Tonight I introduced the concept of using the standup techniques and principals in a ground fighting scenario. It was a fascinating exercise. Even though I was the one guiding everything, I think I learned as much tonight as my students did. They were absolutely delighted with it. I think that has just become a regularpart of my curricuulum.