Archangel M
Senior Master
Wasnt really directed at you Tez...I see your point and agree. But the media isnt really doing what its doing for your reasons IMO. They are doing it for their own....
AP Photo Of Marine's Death Upsetting to High Command
- Thread starter MA-Caver
- Start date
"The Royal British Legion is calling on Government to honour its life-long duty of care to those making a unique commitment to their country by honouring the Military Covenant with our Armed Forces."
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/campaigning/honour-the-covenant
Archangel M
Senior Master
The Media Cycle:
Write stories about the atrocities in third world countries like Darfur, Somalia, etc. (and the Taliban in Afghanistan previously)
Get celebrities all fired up about "doing something" about it
Get the public all fired up to do something about it.
When the military gets sent and *gasp* people start dying....
Post up photos
Write about how this evil war is unwinnable.
Another Vietnam...etc. (They lve that one because they ALL want to be the next Cronkite that ends the war)
We pull out.
Start all over again.
Blech....
Write stories about the atrocities in third world countries like Darfur, Somalia, etc. (and the Taliban in Afghanistan previously)
Get celebrities all fired up about "doing something" about it
Get the public all fired up to do something about it.
When the military gets sent and *gasp* people start dying....
Post up photos
Write about how this evil war is unwinnable.
Another Vietnam...etc. (They lve that one because they ALL want to be the next Cronkite that ends the war)
We pull out.
Start all over again.
Blech....
Their dead relative is our serviceman. It isn't as simple as you're making it.
I don't think the point is to end the war. The point is to accurately report on it without sugar-coating it. As to showing "dead cops", one wonders if doing that on rare occasions heightens the public's appreciation for what LEOs do. I don't see it as disrespectful.
I think you're right, sometimes people have to be made to face the truth, there were photos taken in the Second World War of soldiers injured and being killed, people didn't clamour to have the war stopped because of them but they did gain an appreciation of what the soldiers were going through. I think too the soldiers need people to understand what it's been like for them. A lot of the time they can't explain to even their loved ones what it's been like to see your mates die and been injured, that photo and others like them literally can speak the words for them. The soldiers helping the dying man will carry that forever and very few civilians can understand what it was like, thanks to the photo though they now have more of an idea. It's human nature to avoid unpleasant things but they should be faced.
For many civilians who have no idea about warfare, the next time they thank a service person for their service it will be with a little more understanding thanks to photos like that.
Archangel M
Senior Master
I think that the medias relationship to War fundamentally changed with Vietnam and Cronkite.
Once Tet..a strategic defeat for the VC was transformed into "The War is now unwinnable" by the press and the President of the US saying "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost Middle America." and ending a war...well I think that the media's goals and the ambitions of individual outlets/reporters are not what they were in the days of Murrow.
We don't seem to have the same problem with the media here. It is full of the Afghan war but the reporting has been about the appalling lack of support the government is giving our troops. Thats coming from all sides of the political spectrum, the Labour press is sayng the same as the Tory press. The government doesn't seem to be taking a huge lot of notice even when one of the defence minister's aides resigned over it.
The numbers of troops here is causing concern because many of us believe they could have been avoided if there had been better equipment or even equipment in some cases like the ones where soldiers died because they had no body armour issued.
There are calls to get the troops back and end the war because we have been told this war could go on for another generation and because we can see no difference being made. We don't believe that being in Afghanistan makes us safer which is proved by the fact that most of the terrorists are coming out of Pakistan,a lot of whom are being recruited in the UK. We certainly need a rethink on the way the way it's going whether it's to pull out completely or put more troops in and finish the job off totally. I don't think we can carry on as we are.
The numbers of troops here is causing concern because many of us believe they could have been avoided if there had been better equipment or even equipment in some cases like the ones where soldiers died because they had no body armour issued.
There are calls to get the troops back and end the war because we have been told this war could go on for another generation and because we can see no difference being made. We don't believe that being in Afghanistan makes us safer which is proved by the fact that most of the terrorists are coming out of Pakistan,a lot of whom are being recruited in the UK. We certainly need a rethink on the way the way it's going whether it's to pull out completely or put more troops in and finish the job off totally. I don't think we can carry on as we are.
I doubt reporters have ever done it any other way tbh. Why else would they risk their lives in any war to take photos and report, I don't think any of them have ever seen it as an altruistic act, a by product maybe but the purpose has always been to sell newspapers and win prizes. Whats important is that they provide thought provoking pictures and stories, it's how we see things that counts.
Archangel M
Senior Master
If we don't think that media execs/owners have political ambitions/influences/opinions/GOALS that influence what they CHOOSE TO SHOW US.....well I think we are being naive.
This hideous thing was taken by a reporter embedded with the Marine unit...which meant those Marines had to support and protect the reporter as one of their own. So tell me, what thoughts do you think were provoked among the other Marines by this act?
And no, I don't think reporters have always done it this way. Ernie Pyle and others were respected if not loved by the servicemen they were with. I'm not feeling the love for the current media.... wonder why.
You might be on to something quite sinister here. The MSM is owned by the same people who own the defense contractors and other who benefit from feeding the Military Industrial Complex. The images of the war are being carefully manipulated in order to send certain messages. That is an interesting cycle of public sentiment you pointed out.
Seriously? If it were our troops they'd be having a competition to see who could shag her first and no I'm not joking. We don't do all that honour stuff, our lads are real men who are rude, crude and if they can get a legover in a battle zone they get bragging rights for a long time.The lads aren't angels they are soldiers, they shrug their shoulders and get on wih the job and yeah the civvies don't undertand their sense of humour or the way they think. If I told you the jokes that come back from there you'd be horrified but they are actually very funny. Our lads would have taken the film or whatever it is they use now off the photographer and wouldn't care if there was complaints. A smack in the mouth may offend but tough.
The problem with this photo actually goes back to your invasion of Grenada where the American press got a photograph of a dead American officer and published it before the family could be told.
For me, the only real issue with this is that the parents asked for it not to be used and it was anyway.
In a matter of national security or some other circumstance where it would be derelict of the media to be silent, then I could condone their bulling through regardless. But this is not one of those occasions.
By way of contrast, in one of Ross Kemp's excellent documentaries from Afghanistan, there was video of a young soldier dying as the medic tried desperately to save him. Heartbreaking stuff in a film, even worse when you know it's real. His parents wanted it to be shown as an illustration of what our military is going through.
That's the defining difference - consent.
In a matter of national security or some other circumstance where it would be derelict of the media to be silent, then I could condone their bulling through regardless. But this is not one of those occasions.
By way of contrast, in one of Ross Kemp's excellent documentaries from Afghanistan, there was video of a young soldier dying as the medic tried desperately to save him. Heartbreaking stuff in a film, even worse when you know it's real. His parents wanted it to be shown as an illustration of what our military is going through.
That's the defining difference - consent.
FieldDiscipline
2nd Black Belt
I think it's awful. Had his parents backed it then who knows, but doing it against their wishes is awful.
I still don't watch the BBC news:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1431081/BBC-cruel-to-show-dead-soldiers-say-families.html
http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/168/36616.html
Wrong.
Sooner the licence fee is gone the better.
I still don't watch the BBC news:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1431081/BBC-cruel-to-show-dead-soldiers-say-families.html
http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/168/36616.html
Wrong.
Sooner the licence fee is gone the better.
I think perhaps our press wouldn't have printed this photo without the consent of the family but then our press has different issues with the war which the majority of us share.
There is the problem in that that it is cruel to show dead soldiers ( unless they are the enemy!) but on the other hand there is a need for truth in reporting. It's a fine line to walk.
What upsets me though is when people don't get upset at the dead being shown as they have become so innured to death and violence through watching graphic fictional films and television programmes that it means nothing.
One should scream and shout in outrage at these photos.
There is the problem in that that it is cruel to show dead soldiers ( unless they are the enemy!) but on the other hand there is a need for truth in reporting. It's a fine line to walk.
What upsets me though is when people don't get upset at the dead being shown as they have become so innured to death and violence through watching graphic fictional films and television programmes that it means nothing.
One should scream and shout in outrage at these photos.
Archangel M
Senior Master
Outrage at what? The war? Then we are back to my initial post on this thread...
If I were still serving and made the ultimate sacrifice doing what I believed was right. I would be outraged that my death photos were being used to argue a political point in which I disagreed.
If I were still serving and made the ultimate sacrifice doing what I believed was right. I would be outraged that my death photos were being used to argue a political point in which I disagreed.
You miss the point too, people should always be outraged at real deaths, there is so much violence in films such as SAW and it's follow ons for example that they have become immune to emotion when they see death for real and it means nothing to them. Deaths in wars should not be glossed over as meaning nothing which is what happens when people get used to seeing death and gore in fiction.
I'm not arguing from a political point at all,I'm arguing that people these days have become all 'warm and fluffy' and won't face up to the realities of war, many have trouble facing up to anything tbh. Some wars are necessary, right even but we shouldn't ever forget the cost of these wars.
I also believe that politicians should also face the cost of wars in more than monetary terms before they start sabre rattling and sending troops off to fight. If they can send troops to war reluctantly but for a good cause then that is right, no one should send troops out to fight lightly.
Yes, even distinctly nonheroic me has such memories..... and that's exactly my point. There's lots of things you do and say that you are very glad will never be told outside.
This reporter was placed in a position as if they were one of a brotherhood....and to me, did something immeasurably worse than barracks theft......they sold and exploited a photo of one of the men dying. I would not even want to be in a room with anyone who'd do this.
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