Anyone else use Yao Bu?

[Damien]

I'm currently working on my latest video, which is proving to be an epic endeavour (hopefully it'll be worth it). It dives into something which I've seen countless times in modern Shaolin, which whilst not wrong (there being a thousand ways to skin a cat...), could certainly be improved upon with a little extra knowledge.

Obviously different styles use different stances and even within styles different teachers will teach things differently, so a question for you all, how many of you use, or have even heard of Yao Bu?

It's something found in Shaolin long fist which I don't see very often, it being distinct from Gong Bu, despite looking similar. It's shorter and the weight distribution is different, but the story gets a bit more complicated than that; hence the video.

So anyone else, in any style ever heard of it?

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm currently working on my latest video, which is proving to be an epic endeavour (hopefully it'll be worth it). It dives into something which I've seen countless times in modern Shaolin, which whilst not wrong (there being a thousand ways to skin a cat...), could certainly be improved upon with a little extra knowledge.

Obviously different styles use different stances and even within styles different teachers will teach things differently, so a question for you all, how many of you use, or have even heard of Yao Bu?

It's something found in Shaolin long fist which I don't see very often, it being distinct from Gong Bu, despite looking similar. It's shorter and the weight distribution is different, but the story gets a bit more complicated than that; hence the video.

So anyone else, in any style ever heard of it?


View attachment 28833

Well, it looks akin to what we in Tibetan crane would call an ape step. But you lean into it in a way that we do not; we keep the torso upright and neutral.

Basically it is a step taken with feet shoulder-width apart, not a terribly long step, with knees slightly bent. When you throw the punch, the back knee straightens by pressing the foot into the ground and using that to rotate the torso.

 

[Damien]

Well, it looks akin to what we in Tibetan crane would call an ape step. But you lean into it in a way that we do not; we keep the torso upright and neutral.

Basically it is a step taken with feet shoulder-width apart, not a terribly long step, with knees slightly bent. When you throw the punch, the back knee straightens by pressing the foot into the ground and using that to rotate the torso.

Interesting, sounds slightly different, but similar principles. Was just working on this bit, so thought a video would be useful. Should I be worried that this apparently made my garage floor shake enough to move the camera?

 

[Flying Crane]

Interesting, sounds slightly different, but similar principles. Was just working on this bit, so thought a video would be useful. Should I be worried that this apparently made my garage floor shake enough to move the camera?

Ok, you are using it rather differently than we do. For us, we step into it and can punch with either hand from that position and can step either forward or back as much as we want. Looks like you are using it as more of a transition from a side horse.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Just curious, yao/yau has a pretty specific meaning in CMA, especially Shaolin arts (as in the opposite of gong, though not the same gong as in gong gi bu/ji Ng ma, etc.

Were you given a translation? Is there an online reference you can share so I can compare to my notes and see where this falls in the chang quan?

 

[Damien]

Ok, you are using it rather differently than we do. For us, we step into it and can punch with either hand from that position and can step either forward or back as much as we want. Looks like you are using it as more of a transition from a side horse.

I'm just demonstrating an isolated movement here, you can to it from a more neutral position, but the mechanics are essentially the same. By doing that you can turn it into a running movement. We would only ever do it moving forwards and with the rear hand though.

For front hand or moving backwards we would do something a little different with the stance gong bu, though the final position looks similar.

 

[Damien]

Just curious, yao/yau has a pretty specific meaning in CMA, especially Shaolin arts (as in the opposite of gong, though not the same gong as in gong gi bu/ji Ng ma, etc.

Were you given a translation? Is there an online reference you can share so I can compare to my notes and see where this falls in the chang quan?

There are a few translations; shaking step is the literal one 搖步 but it can also be translated as rowing step, or walking step because of the motion of the upper body, or the legs respectively.

The best I've got in terms of online references would be the stance guide I released recently which talks more about the stance- Shaolin Stance Guide — Kung Fit: Kung Fu and Fitness to stay Fit for Life

The Shaolin Yuzhai channel has videos of forms which show the movement in use (such as the er lu da tong bei quan one), as does my own, but there's nothing else I know of out there, other than a handful of old forum posts mentioning it. Which is why I'm making a video about it and gong bu at the moment.

From a Shaolin long fist perspective yao bu and gong bu make use of translational movement of your mass to generate power, in slightly different ways. This contrasts with the rotational mechanics which are now more popular.

It's quite a complicated topic, which I think is why it's not widely known or even taught by people who do know it. I fully expect to enrage a lot of people though

I think it really clears up a lot of things to think of these two approaches to power generation, and understand when one is being misapplied; it doesn't mean it doesn't work, just that there can be a better way.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Look like you are using "monkey stance" without bending your back leg that much.

You use bow-arrow stance to punch your opponent. If the distance is a bit too far, you slide in your back foot to gain extra reach.

 

[Oily Dragon]

There are a few translations; shaking step is the literal one 搖步 but it can also be translated as rowing step, or walking step because of the motion of the upper body, or the legs respectively.

The best I've got in terms of online references would be the stance guide I released recently which talks more about the stance- Shaolin Stance Guide — Kung Fit: Kung Fu and Fitness to stay Fit for Life

The Shaolin Yuzhai channel has videos of forms which show the movement in use (such as the er lu da tong bei quan one), as does my own, but there's nothing else I know of out there, other than a handful of old forum posts mentioning it. Which is why I'm making a video about it and gong bu at the moment.

From a Shaolin long fist perspective yao bu and gong bu make use of translational movement of your mass to generate power, in slightly different ways. This contrasts with the rotational mechanics which are now more popular.

It's quite a complicated topic, which I think is why it's not widely known or even taught by people who do know it. I fully expect to enrage a lot of people though

I think it really clears up a lot of things to think of these two approaches to power generation, and understand when one is being misapplied; it doesn't mean it doesn't work, just that there can be a better way.

Ok, you learned this as 搖. A Shaolin art under a different name smells as sweet.

柔 (rou in Mandarin/yao in Cantonese/Hakka) is the traditional Shaolin for "soft/supple" and the foundation for several different core Buddhist and Taoist training methods, especially the internal Nei Gong, and an old school Shaolin family tree out of Hong Kong and San Fran (the Yau Kung Mun) that is totally legit.

Given the similarity between "shaking" and "supple", there might be some connection between these, but I'd be interested in native sources if you've found some (like, manuals in Mandarin if you got any). But for certain, "yao" will mean "soft" in the southern (non-mandarin) Shaolin traditions.

I'll check out your newsletter, don't be surprised if I use a fake name to order it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm currently working on my latest video, which is proving to be an epic endeavour (hopefully it'll be worth it). It dives into something which I've seen countless times in modern Shaolin, which whilst not wrong (there being a thousand ways to skin a cat...), could certainly be improved upon with a little extra knowledge.

Obviously different styles use different stances and even within styles different teachers will teach things differently, so a question for you all, how many of you use, or have even heard of Yao Bu?

It's something found in Shaolin long fist which I don't see very often, it being distinct from Gong Bu, despite looking similar. It's shorter and the weight distribution is different, but the story gets a bit more complicated than that; hence the video.

So anyone else, in any style ever heard of it?


View attachment 28833

This seems familiar but I don't if it's the same stance. I train my techniques at different stance levels and here are a few screenshots from one videos I made of my training. Top part is application concept. The bottom is forms training.

 

[Oily Dragon]

This seems familiar but I don't if it's the same stance. I train my techniques at different stance levels and here are a few screenshots from one videos I made of my training. Top part is application concept. The bottom is forms training.
View attachment 28837


View attachment 28839

The top is one type of Shaolin Wood element fist from Taming the Tiger (Fuk Fu).

The bottom is a right cross, also found in the same form. There's an interplay here, and I think Damien's stepping shows it well.

Tiger Crane kung fu is a great place to see the interplay between gong (hard) and yao (soft). In fact, Tiger style suits your body type well, if I do say so myself.

The key, as always: First, RELAX! Then, crush your enemy.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The key, as always: First, RELAX! Then, crush your enemy.

Yep. I definitely have a tension issue. I've been working on though so hopefully it'll get better at it over the next 7months. RELAX = the hardest thing in Kung Fu for me lol. The biggest change this time around is that I'm using massages as part of my training. I finally accepted that sometimes it's necessary to lay hands on the tension.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The top is one type of Shaolin Wood element fist from Taming the Tiger (Fuk Fu).

View attachment 28841

The bottom is a right cross, also found in the same form. There's an interplay here, and I think Damien's stepping shows it well.

Tiger Crane kung fu is a great place to see the interplay between gong (hard) and yao (soft). In fact, Tiger style suits your body type well, if I do say so myself.

The key, as always: First, RELAX! Then, crush your enemy.

Thanks for the info.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here's an application concept pose.

 

[Damien]

Ok, you learned this as 搖. A Shaolin art under a different name smells as sweet.

柔 (rou in Mandarin/yao in Cantonese/Hakka) is the traditional Shaolin for "soft/supple" and the foundation for several different core Buddhist and Taoist training methods, especially the internal Nei Gong, and an old school Shaolin family tree out of Hong Kong and San Fran (the Yau Kung Mun) that is totally legit.

Given the similarity between "shaking" and "supple", there might be some connection between these, but I'd be interested in native sources if you've found some (like, manuals in Mandarin if you got any). But for certain, "yao" will mean "soft" in the southern (non-mandarin) Shaolin traditions.

I'll check out your newsletter, don't be surprised if I use a fake name to order it.

The joys of language eh? I expect a lot of martial arts confusion over the years can be attributed to a lack of clear understanding between Cantonese and Mandarin.

In northern Shaolin there are Rou Quan sets which make use of soft movements. Soft this movement definitely is not; the name is an odd one though. I imagine there is some long lost reason for the name related to an old story, like some styles call pu bu, fu hu bu- taming the tiger stance, based on an old story where someone used it to kill a tiger. Certainly my teacher never gave a good explanation for that particular name.

Unfortunately I don't have any manuals, just a few form poems laying around. My teacher has seen a number in his time, but out in rural areas of Songshan, where scanning and uploading to the internet is not exactly the done thing.

 

[Damien]

It's interesting to see similar ideas popping up in other styles, even if executed slightly differently, shows how many of the same principles are incorporated across CMA. Elsewhere someone pointed out similarity to beng quan in Hebei Xingyi Quan.

All of which makes it more interesting to see it having fallen into disuse in a lot of Songshan Shaolin.

Nearly done on the video, should be up tomorrow

 

[Damien]

And it's finally done and out in the wild. Slightly provocative title, but hey, that's the game right

The video goes into more detail than I have so far about the differences between Yao Bu and classical Gong Bu within Shaolin, but also looks at what is now called Gong Bu; all three are slightly different, but in significant ways.

It's been interesting to see the same mechanics as Shaolin's Yao Bu popping up, I wonder if anyone's style has gone on a similar journey as much of Shaolin.

 

[Oily Dragon]

The joys of language eh? I expect a lot of martial arts confusion over the years can be attributed to a lack of clear understanding between Cantonese and Mandarin.

In northern Shaolin there are Rou Quan sets which make use of soft movements. Soft this movement definitely is not; the name is an odd one though. I imagine there is some long lost reason for the name related to an old story, like some styles call pu bu, fu hu bu- taming the tiger stance, based on an old story where someone used it to kill a tiger. Certainly my teacher never gave a good explanation for that particular name.

Unfortunately I don't have any manuals, just a few form poems laying around. My teacher has seen a number in his time, but out in rural areas of Songshan, where scanning and uploading to the internet is not exactly the done thing.

The nice thing about languages is that they aren't ever truly lost lost, not since we discovered how to record and compare them. I know a little Sanskrit. A couple words here and there, from a 3,000 year old "dead" language, but it's powerful stuff.

Fu hu bu = 虎鶴 bu, which is Hǔ hè in Mandarin for Tiger Crane. In the south, Fu Hok.

In the Wu Xing, Fire and Wood. Perfect elements for kung fu training this time of year, late summer.

 

[Damien]

The nice thing about languages is that they aren't ever truly lost lost, not since we discovered how to record and compare them. I know a little Sanskrit. A couple words here and there, from a 3,000 year old "dead" language, but it's powerful stuff.

Fu hu bu = 虎鶴 bu, which is Hǔ hè in Mandarin for Tiger Crane. In the south, Fu Hok.

In the Wu Xing, Fire and Wood. Perfect elements for kung fu training this time of year, late summer.

Actually 服虎步 Fú Hǔ Bù in Mandarin. I usually can't be bothered with the effort of putting in full pinyin script for something like a forum post, but I really should, given the potential for misunderstanding with a tonal language.

 

[clfsean]

Yes I use it in Ma Family Tongbi Baji Quan, Lama Pai, Choy Li Fut, etc... anytime I'm doing a series of charge stepping forward. In Baji it is the second of the Gangang Bashi.

Different variations for different styles, but the notion is the same.