Any suggestions for Iron Palm / Iron Bone training?

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by ECYili
Mmmmmm great visial Matt!

I know when I was practicing the cranes beak strike. I was doing 100 strikes with each hand a day to the slap bag. In a week or two I noticed that my eyes were getting very tired and they would hurt, I also would have a hard time focusing. Once I told Tim and he gave me some things to do and took a break from striking the bag my eyes almost immediatly got better.

dan

Has that occurred to everyone who practiced crane beak strike?

 

[Milquetoast]

Hi, I just saw this thread now, and it was very interesting. I had a few questions:

1. Does anyone practice abstinence during the first 100 days of iron shirt or iron palm training?

2. Does anyone practice soft or internal-style iron shirt training? At what stage do you start? e.g. should I be able to experience small circulation before I attempt this? What's involved? I want to be able to take more impact on my body.

3. What happens when you slap the air?? Would you feel something from 30cm away? And how do you train by slapping air? I mean, is the person so advanced that the air feels like a viscous medium that can be slapped? I have heard of people doing iron palm training by slapping water. Is slapping water a beginning or intermediate stage?

 

[yilisifu]

In Yilichuan we strongly recommend abstinence during the first part of our chigong program (not necessarily iron palm/shirt training). This lasts for the first 100 days.

It isn't absolutely necessary that you have already completed the Microcosmic Orbit prior to starting iron palmshirt, but it's a good idea as you'll get better results. Some students combined the two; getting through the small circulation during their iron shirt training.

As for slapping the air, we don't do that at all...slapping water isn't necessarily a conditioning exercise, but it's considered rather advanced.

Chufeng is extraordinarily skilled at our unique form of absorbing/resisting blows known as the "Yili Shield."

 

[chufeng]

My reference to slapping air was concerning Master Arthur Lee of the Fut Ga Kun...He slapped air and developed a tremendous Iron Palm...you could check on that through his son Harlan Lee, I don't know if they have a web site, or not.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[yilisifu]

I've seen the results of Sifu Lee's iron palm "slap." Very impressive.....left a real impression on the other guy, too!

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Milquetoast
Hi, I just saw this thread now, and it was very interesting. I had a few questions:

1. Does anyone practice abstinence during the first 100 days of iron shirt or iron palm training?

Unless you are overly sexually active, I don't see how that has anything to do with Iron Palm training. Or, may be you can't wack off with a swollen palm? I don't know.

2. Does anyone practice soft or internal-style iron shirt training? At what stage do you start? e.g. should I be able to experience small circulation before I attempt this? What's involved? I want to be able to take more impact on my body.

The funny thing is, Iron Shirt is the Asian's version of X-Men expertise, in the same league as X-Ray vision, scaling wall on your hands, dashing across rivers w/o wetting your toes etc. It is the stuff you normally find in fictions.

I must admit that I am surprised that there are Westerners practicing it. I am sure there is a gap between the version fantasized in the fictions vs the one being practiced.

3. What happens when you slap the air?? Would you feel something from 30cm away? And how do you train by slapping air? I mean, is the person so advanced that the air feels like a viscous medium that can be slapped? I have heard of people doing iron palm training by slapping water. Is slapping water a beginning or intermediate stage?

I am certain that you would achieve much higher effectiveness slapping water than slapping air. The body strength and mass increase when subjected to progressive resistance. Water certainly offers higher resistance than air. This is not to say that you wouldn't see any result slapping air. It is just not as effective.

With all due respect to Mr Starr, slapping water is entry level training.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by KennethKu
With all due respect to Mr Starr, slapping water is entry level training.

Curious... In what respects do you consider slapping water basic?

My understanding is, that while being a simplistic approach (akin to taking a 50 pound bag of rice and slapping it until it is flour), the results are startlingly advanced.

Slapping a tub of water until you are capable of emptying the entire thing with one slap is nearly impossible from a realistic standpoint. The attempt however, on a continually repeated basis, will certainly develop quite a powerful strike in time.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[yilisifu]

Fill a large, old-fashioned washtub basin with water. With a single slap, empty it (or nearly so) of the water. If this is entry level material, I bow to you.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Curious... In what respects do you consider slapping water basic?

My understanding is, that while being a simplistic approach (akin to taking a 50 pound bag of rice and slapping it until it is flour), the results are startlingly advanced.

Slapping a tub of water until you are capable of emptying the entire thing with one slap is nearly impossible from a realistic standpoint. The attempt however, on a continually repeated basis, will certainly develop quite a powerful strike in time.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

Mr. Stone,

After rereading the posts, I still can't find any one mentioning emptying the entire tub of water with hand slap. The poster originally asked about slapping water as "doing iron palm training by slapping water". In that context, slapping water is an entry level training. Forgive me for repeatingly stating the obvious. Water offers much higher resistance than air, but offers a much safer training medium comparing to other materials such as sand, gravels, or iron dust.

When I was a teenager, my dad showed me a text of Iron Palm training. In which, it describes using sand, then gravels, and finally using iron dust as training media. According to the text, your Iron Palm training is completed when you can empty the bucket of iron dust with one single slap. As an anticlimax, the author concluded the book with a story about an Iron Palm master murdered at the hand of a petty thief because he didn't think much of the petty punk with a knife in light of his mighty Iron Palm. While the author's intent was in the right place, but as a teen, I figured back then to hell with this Iron Palm crap, I would just carry a sharp knife instead. Oh well.

Your statement, "Slapping a tub of water until you are capable of emptying the entire thing with one slap" is a description of achieving nirvana in Iron Palm.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by yilisifu
Fill a large, old-fashioned washtub basin with water. With a single slap, empty it (or nearly so) of the water. If this is entry level material, I bow to you.

Mr Starr,

As I have stated just now, I was referring to slapping water as training for Iron Palm, not as a test for Iron Palm. Needless to say that emptying such quantity of water with a single palm strike would require tremenduous amount of explosive force. Such result from an Iron Palm strike has yet to be properly documented.

 

[Petey]

I use a leather Kan-Shu bag filled with 1/4" steel hunting shot. I made it from a little girls pocket book I picked up at a second hand store. Also, aside from using dit da jow, you might also want to consider incorporating dietary supplements containing calcium and glucosamine(aid in bone/joint recovery) into your training. Further, striking a large stone or anvil along with knuckle push-ups is also effective

 

[7starmantis]

Using steel hunting shot or metal "BB's" should only be used by an advanced practitioner of iron palm, I most definitely would not recommend starting with steel shot. Sand is awesome to start with; I don't know that water would really even do enough to be considered for a starting individual though.


7sm

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

Great post everyone. I'm finding this stuff most informative. I have a question about fingertip training and vision....
I have heard and believe that fingertip training will affect vision, but in what way? What kind of training (like will fingertip pushups do it?)? I've also heard tell that there are herbs that can counteract this. Would these herbs simply be dit da jow or is there another solution used? I'm really interested in developing an iron palm and would like to go the whole way (meaning fingertips as well).
In conclusion, I like martial arts. Specially Tai Chi.

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

Hello? I know this thread has been dead a while... I'll start a new one if this don't work.

 

[Darksoul]

Hey Skankatron,

-I've been reading a bit about training the gripping power of the hands and fingers. Not directly Iron Palm, but related, and important in many ma's. Especially in my style, since we have many open hand techs and hooking techs that require strong hands and fingers. But as has been mentioned in this thread, the training should also include the rest of the body. It should all run together. I'm still rather new to training in Kung-Fu, still working on basics. More than anything, just waiting for my hours to change and the weather to warm up. But I might suggest using Google to look for Iron Palm training sites, or find a good book to use as reference material. Though I certainly would caution anyone to learn from a teacher when actually beginning the training.


A---)

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

Right. I think I will hang back on the iron palm training 'till I get some first hand instruction/advice and have time to get the proper jow and materials necessary. Kalamazoo college demands most of my time, so....
But! I still would like to know if there are adverse affects to practicing fingertip pushups. Do I need to worry about it affecting my eyes or is that only with striking that it becomes a problem? I highly value my hands, and i guess i kinda value my eyes too. also, does anyone know if the eye thing is permanent?

 

[7starmantis]

From all my medical training and CMA training, I've found no evidence that fingertip training effects the eyes or eyesight at all. I've also found no one who believes it does who is able to provide any type of source for their beliefs.

7sm

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

Well it has to do with the meridians. There are (I'm not COMPLETELY sure about this) three meridians in the hands that run all the way to the fingertips. Out of these, there are two that connect up to points right next to the eyes. If you don't know/beleive what I'm talking about, look up some accupuncture stuff. But, if no one's had any problems, that's good enough for me. If I notice something wrong, I'll look into it more.

 

[7starmantis]

I know about the meridians, but coming from a western medical viewpoint (paramedic) I can't see how it could affect eyesight. I've never seen a case of it either. Coming from a chinese medicine standpoint, I still have not heard that claimed or proven.

7sm

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

Hmm.... It's not beyond the realm of finite possibility that it was a well constructed lie to detract people from studying iron palm (iron fingers?). Like carrots helping eyesight and bat's eyes in pockets causing invisibility.
(The first was used in WW2 to fool the germans into thinking they (allies) didn't have radar, the second came from the 'golden dawn' obscuring their magickal practices by putting obscure ingredients and actions in).

Bat's eyes. Rediculous.