Any pointers, kata?

[TSDTexan]

Last week I started working on a new kata (new to me anyways).
Gekisai Dai Ichi.

I want to ask for pointers and advice about this kata, and any insights.

Our tradition's version not exactly the same as the Goju-ryu one I have seen.

Thank you, for any on point responses.

 

[Headhunter]

Ask your instructor listening to other people's advice may not help in the slightest as every place does it different

 

[TSDTexan]

Ask your instructor listening to other people's advice may not help in the slightest as every place does it different

Thank you for your input.
I am still wanting to hear perspectives from people about this kata.

 

[MI_martialist]

Before you do or learn the kata, do all of the potential armed and unarmed applications that are found, then do the kata and "relive" the applications as you do it.

What is kata without applications, after all?

 

[Sojobo]

Is there any point learning the kata in this case?

 

[MI_martialist]

Is there any point learning the kata in this case?

In what case?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is there any point learning the kata in this case?

It can be a useful way to practice the movements and tune them, without the interference of a partner who doesn't feed properly for the given technique. In other words, if they do it wrong in a kata, it can only be because they did it wrong, not because their partner's response should have led to a different technique.

 

[Sojobo]

What is kata without applications, after all?

That depends what you are trying to get from the kata.

Not all kata are designed to have a directly applicable or interpreted output (in terms of combative techniques/strategies). Some are practiced primarily to develop internal strength, balance and other fundamental attributes that can then be utilised in the wider curriculum of the school / system.

In this case, learning a kata for its movements sake - is more important than understanding the potential uses of the techniques / movement being performed.

 

[MI_martialist]

That depends what you are trying to get from the kata.

Not all kata are designed to have a directly applicable or interpreted output (in terms of combative techniques/strategies). Some are practiced primarily to develop internal strength, balance and other fundamental attributes that can then be utilised in the wider curriculum of the school / system.

In this case, learning a kata for its movements sake - is more important than understanding the potential uses of the techniques / movement being performed.

What is the outcome of internal strength, balance, and other fundamentals? Proper technique and applications...

 

[Sojobo]

What is the outcome of internal strength, balance, and other fundamentals? Proper technique and applications...

Correct, but...

Before you do or learn the kata, do all of the potential armed and unarmed applications that are found

No.

IMO, you learn and practice the solo kata first in order to inculcate the fundamentals.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

IMO, you learn and practice the solo kata first in order to inculcate the fundamentals.

That depends upon the purpose of the kata. None of the long-form kata I teach are intended to teach someone the techniques. They are only received after the student knows the technique and has met some minimal competency.

 

[MI_martialist]

Correct, but...



No.

IMO, you learn and practice the solo kata first in order to inculcate the fundamentals.

As you said it is your opinion. Did kata develop themselves before or after the function was developed?

 

[TSDTexan]

This is some bunkai for this kata.

 

[MI_martialist]

This is some bunkai for this kata.

So what is bunkai?

 

[TSDTexan]

So what is bunkai?

Short answer:
A means to an end.

Longer answer:

A loose definition of the word. "Breakdown" a better definition would be "disassembly".

It's one part of a means to finding a meaningful understanding of kata, the other part is analysis (bunseki).

Add the two together and you get applications (oyo)

Generically, a lot of people call the whole process bunkai. But that's not accurate.

There are a few methods of doing bunkai.

Omote (what you see, is the meaning)
The block is, in fact, a block and not something else

Ura (the meaning is buried or hidden)
You have to decipher what is really going on in the sequence of actions, and it's not the obvious, or surface thing you see.

There is a method called Honto Bunkai well.

This is something that is earned by loyalty and paying one's dues and its the closed door disciple who is told the real deal meaning of a sequence of actions within in the kata, by the headmaster.

Odds are most people won't be doing the third method.

 

[Sojobo]

Did kata develop themselves before or after the function was developed?

That depends on your understanding of function.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That depends on your understanding of function.

Not really. It depends upon whether it was developed before or after the function. It's a timeline question, not a question of understanding. Kata didn't spring up unbidden, and then we have to find their purpose (function). Some instructor created them for a specific purpose.

 

[Sojobo]

The original viewpoint I was attempting to offer was that irrespective of how and when some kata came into existence, their usage (in terms of how they are applied within the greater curriculum of the style) have evolved over time - and vary according to style.

In Wado- ryu for example - the practice of solo kata like Naihanchi and Seishan is primarily intended to develop attributes of internal strength, form and balance - which are then applied to the techniques and stratagems within the paired kata of the system (Kihon Kumite, Kumite Gata, Idori etc. etc.)

This may be a bit of an unusual approach compared to Okinawan based karate systems, but it is fairly ubiquitous within koryu-bujutsu systems.

 

[MI_martialist]

Not really. It depends upon whether it was developed before or after the function. It's a timeline question, not a question of understanding. Kata didn't spring up unbidden, and then we have to find their purpose (function). Some instructor created them for a specific purpose.

Yes, thank you! Every pose, posture of a kata has martial application. Whether or not one understands them is a different story. A kata may be practiced for a different reason, but that does not make the reason valid, or martial.

 

[MI_martialist]

The original viewpoint I was attempting to offer was that irrespective of how and when some kata came into existence, their usage (in terms of how they are applied within the greater curriculum of the style) have evolved over time - and vary according to style.

In Wado- ryu for example - the practice of solo kata like Naihanchi and Seishan is primarily intended to develop attributes of internal strength, form and balance - which are then applied to the techniques and stratagems within the paired kata of the system (Kihon Kumite, Kumite Gata, Idori etc. etc.)

This may be a bit of an unusual approach compared to Okinawan based karate systems, but it is fairly ubiquitous within koryu-bujutsu systems.

Hello...are you comparing your training in Wado-ryu to Koryu bujutsu? I really do not understand what you are saying here. Solo kata must be and are based on martial application. Why move the way you do? Why strike the posture you do? Why execute the technique (note that the real technique is NOT the technique you THINK you are doing) you are executing? if not for martial reason, is it not simply an empty dance?