Another Decriminalise Drugs Thread

[ballen0351]

Leave it to the Texan to suggest building more prisons. Discounting the cost to build the prisons, assuming we had the room, it costs the taxpayers between $25k and $35k per year (depending upon which report you read) to incarcerate a prisoner.

Now, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but according to the CDC, as of 2010, more than 1 out of every 5 American citizen age 18 to 25 used an illicit drug "within the last month." (21.6%)

Almost 17% of teens ages 16 to 18 used "within the last month." And over 13% of 26 to 34 year olds.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus12.pdf#058

Let's think this through for a moment. To keep things simple, let's just stick with the 18 to 25 year olds, but remember that there are people older than this who also use illicit drugs. This is important, because I want to make sure you understand that putting over 20% of the population ages 18 to 25 in jail for 10 years will have a pretty dramatic effect on the economy. Sure, unemployment will go down because we will be reducing the working population significantly. But we'll also have fewer people working and paying taxes, to pay for your pretty serious proposition.

So, according to the US Census (http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf), there were 30,672,088 Americans age 18 to 24 in 2010. If we prosecute and incarcerate 20%, that means we'll have 6,134,418 inmates... wow! Time $30k/year and we're looking at $184,032,540,000 per year. That's just for the 18 to 24 year olds and that's JUST for the illicit drug use.

To put your idea into perspective, according to the BJS, on December 31, 2010, state and federal correctional authorities had jurisdiction over 1,612,395 prisoners. http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2230

So, what you're talking about doing is increasing the number of inmates in State or Federal custody by somewhere around 700% and that's JUST for the 18 to 24 year olds who are doing drugs.

Can we all agree that this is unreasonable?

So because 20% of Americans can't follow the rules we need to change them?

 

[Tgace]

DEA doesn't go after pot dealers. To even get the DEA to look at a pot case you better be bringing in Tons.
People in jaulnfor drug related offenses have been arrested many many many times. How many chances should people get? You don't like the law tough its the law just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can ignore it. I don't like paying taxes but I do it. You don't need drugs to live so there is no excuse for not following the rules
Also as to cops focusing on real crimes just what is a real crime? I lock up a DUI I get told that. I lock up a crack head I get told that, I lock up a shop lifter I get told that, I stop someone for speeding I get told that. I'd lile to know what a real crime is

Non-LE just don't get that....the feds could care less about weed unless we are talking tractor trailer loads.

 

[Steve]

So because 20% of Americans can't follow the rules we need to change them?

Ballen, with respect, I think you and I are done. There's nothing more for us to discuss. I think we just disagree and neither of us is going to bend. Nothing wrong with that. Right?

 

[ballen0351]

Your rights are at issue where they start affecting mine--and this is a clear public health issue.

So is people getting naked with baseball bats smashing bus stops.

 

[ballen0351]

Ballen, with respect, I think you and I are done. There's nothing more for us to discuss. I think we just disagree and neither of us is going to bend. Nothing wrong with that. Right?

I just don't get the logic. We need to change the laws because 20% of Americans have used drugs.

 

[Tgace]

Guns are not addictive. Guns are Constitutionally protected. And just like guns I'm not calling for more laws against drugs.

Guns have legitimate and useful purposes in society and provide a balance of political power...a weed that gives you a buzz or a powder that can kill you simply because you want to get high has no correlation.

 

[Steve]

I just don't get the logic. We need to change the laws because 20% of Americans have used drugs.

Ballen, I'd like to help, but I'm sure of two things. First, I will never be able to explain to you in a way that you will understand. And two, even if I could, you would still disagree.

 

[ballen0351]

Ballen, I'd like to help, but I'm sure of two things. First, I will never be able to explain to you in a way that you will understand. And two, even if I could, you would still disagree.

I don't really need your help. The numbers are on my side.

 

[Steve]

Guns have legitimate and useful purposes in society and provide a balance of political power...a weed that gives you a buzz or a powder that can kill you simply because you want to get high has no correlation.

Tgace, there are many things we do for no good reason. As Americans, there are a lot of ways we can voluntarily kill ourselves for fun, whether it's skydiving, rock climbing, riding a motor cycle or eating a good 1 lbs fatty burger with bacon and extra cheese every day. Our entire way of life is predicated upon the idea that we are free to do things to ourselves and for ourselves, just for fun, even if it's not a very good idea to do so.

 

[Tgace]

Tgace, there are many things we do for no good reason. As Americans, there are a lot of ways we can voluntarily kill ourselves for fun, whether it's skydiving, rock climbing, riding a motor cycle or eating a good 1 lbs fatty burger with bacon and extra cheese every day. Our entire way of life is predicated upon the idea that we are free to do things to ourselves and for ourselves, just for fun, even if it's not a very good idea to do so.

None of them will make me rob a store to fund them..or drive my daughter into prostitution to buy a burger. Or result in death rates as high...seeing that OD is outpacing car accident deaths:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Drugs/drug-deaths-exceed-traffic-deaths/story?id=14554903

 

[arnisador]

I just don't get the logic. We need to change the laws because 20% of Americans have used drugs.

Not all laws are good and appropriate. We've changed many. The numbers--and that is just for the last month, I think, with more like 25% in a given year, and a majority over lifetime--suggest that it's worth taking another look at, yeah.

Some laws should be changed.

 

[arnisador]

Guns have legitimate and useful purposes in society[...]...a weed that gives you a buzz[...]has no correlation.

There are numerous medical indications for that weed--in addition to the personal freedom issue.

 

[Steve]

None of them will make me rob a store to fund them..or drive my daughter into prostitution to buy a burger. Or result in death rates as high...seeing that OD is outpacing car accident deaths:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Drugs/drug-deaths-exceed-traffic-deaths/story?id=14554903

All the more reason to acknowledge that what we're doing isn't working, in spite of our (your) best efforts to enforce these laws.

The bottom line is that all of the bad things you guys assert will happen are already happening, and based upon our experience with the 13 year long experiment with prohibition, there is evidence to suggest that many of these things are preventable and are occurring precisely because of the prohibition.

 

[Steve]

I don't really need your help. The numbers are on my side.

I've posted many numbers that would suggest otherwise.

 

[ballen0351]

All the more reason to acknowledge that what we're doing isn't working, in spite of our (your) best efforts to enforce these laws.

The bottom line is that all of the bad things you guys assert will happen are already happening, and based upon our experience with the 13 year long experiment with prohibition, there is evidence to suggest that many of these things are preventable and are occurring precisely because of the prohibition.

So making it legal will make crack heads stop robbing gas station? If not then its just not a valid argument

 

[ballen0351]

There are numerous medical indications for that weed--in addition to the personal freedom issue.

Crack, heroin, PCP, LSD, this isn't a weed only conversation

 

[ballen0351]

I've posted many numbers that would suggest otherwise.

Got any numbers on what % of Americans favor legal crack?

 

[ballen0351]

Not all laws are good and appropriate. We've changed many. The numbers--and that is just for the last month, I think, with more like 25% in a given year, and a majority over lifetime--suggest that it's worth taking another look at, yeah.

Some laws should be changed.

You want your kids to have the right to try crack if they want?

 

[arnisador]

You want your kids to have the right to try crack if they want?

I'm for legalizing MJ and for emphasizing treatment over prison for nonviolent drug offenses.

 

[Steve]

So making it legal will make crack heads stop robbing gas station? If not then its just not a valid argument

Nothing more to add on this, ballen. If you would read my earlier posts, you'll find I've already addressed this.