And why you need to know the laws of self defense

[sgtmac_46]

As much as I disagree with him being sued over this, I honestly can't think of anything I own that's worth killing someone over. I just can't picture myself living with someone's death on my shoulders so I can continue to play Xbox.

That's because you have the wrong perspective........what someone ELSE should ask is whether I own anything they are willing to DIE over........because the decision is REALLY theirs.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Yes, I suppose you're right. But in the case of self-defense you're not making a value judgment. You're not killing him because he's a worthless crackhead but because he's going to kill you if you don't kill him first.

True, though shooting him to prevent you losing your property isn't really a value judgment in that sense either......it's just preventing the loss of your property.

The decision about whether a piece of my property is worth dying for originally lay with the man who is contemplating stealing it......stealing is STILL an intentional act, and quite frankly a man can prevent be shot under such circumstances simply enough.

I know the modern moral view is that property isn't worth life.......by my own moral view is a bit different......it's HIS life and MY property....and the decision to trade one for the other originally rests with him.....legally that's a different story, and I will always obey the law of the land, but morally I don't have a real issue with this situation.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Should have aimed for the feet or knees.

Then he'd be suing injury and probably collect a disability check from the government.

Ultimately I know it's not morally or politically correct to declare that society is, in sum, better off by a small margin today than while this guy was still alive.....but it is what it is........like a drop of chlorine in the gene pool.

 

[celtic_crippler]

True.

That's simple personal responsibility; a concept that's been overlooked for way too long.

Sure, life is precious; especially your own. That's why you should think long and hard before doing something you know you shouldn't be doing. Like stealing.

If you freely choose to do wrong to another, then you must accept that you freely choose the consequences of that action. You must also accept that by doing wrong to another that they will most likely not be happy about it and reciprocate in a negative manner; perhaps violently causing you bodily harm or worse.

Put simply, if you do wrong to somebody and you get your butt handed to you as a result then you got what you asked for; deservedly so.

 

[sgtmac_46]

True.

That's simple personal responsibility; a concept that's been overlooked for way too long.

Sure, life is precious; especially your own. That's why you should think long and hard before doing something you know you shouldn't be doing. Like stealing.

If you freely choose to do wrong to another, then you must accept that you freely choose the consequences of that action. You must also accept that by doing wrong to another that they will most likely not be happy about it and reciprocate in a negative manner; perhaps violently causing you bodily harm or worse.

Put simply, if you do wrong to somebody and you get your butt handed to you as a result then you got what you asked for; deservedly so.

Moral and natural consequences........

 

[Deaf Smith]

NOT GUILTY!

http://www.tylerpaper.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090724/NEWS08/307249998

Jury Rules For Homeowner In Wrongful Death Case

By REGIS L. ROBERTS
Staff Writer

A verdict in the favor of Terry Graham was handed down Thursday by the jury in the wrongful death lawsuit against him.

***

And guys, Massad Ayoob testified for the defense!

Deaf

 

[still learning]

Hello, It would be nice to know the background of the thief?

I am sure it was NOT his first time in crime....mostly likely release many times out of prison...

Most crimes are REPEAT OFFENDERS....and they know the risk of stealing....Aloha

 

[sgtmac_46]

NOT GUILTY!

http://www.tylerpaper.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090724/NEWS08/307249998

Jury Rules For Homeowner In Wrongful Death Case

By REGIS L. ROBERTS
Staff Writer

A verdict in the favor of Terry Graham was handed down Thursday by the jury in the wrongful death lawsuit against him.

***

And guys, Massad Ayoob testified for the defense!

Deaf

Massad Ayoob often testifies in self-defense cases......he is a subject matter expert. I imagine his testimony helped sway the jury.

I knew Texans wouldn't give this gal any money for a dead crackhead burglar!

 

[Andy Moynihan]

NOT GUILTY!

http://www.tylerpaper.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090724/NEWS08/307249998

Jury Rules For Homeowner In Wrongful Death Case

By REGIS L. ROBERTS
Staff Writer

A verdict in the favor of Terry Graham was handed down Thursday by the jury in the wrongful death lawsuit against him.

***

And guys, Massad Ayoob testified for the defense!

Deaf

HOOah!

 

[Deaf Smith]

If you want to hear Ayoob's take on this case:


http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368776

He is a TFL member.

Deaf

 

[sgtmac_46]

This was not a strict "shoot to protect property" incident, despite the plaintiff's unsuccessful attempts to make it appear so.

At the time of his death, Josh Chambers had two loaded, stolen pistols in his possession in the front seat of his vehicle. He had been seen by two of the witnesses to make a furtive reach toward the bag containing those pistols as he moved from the house to his vehicle. He was now accelerating his vehicle toward Mr. Graham. All three witnesses stated that at the last moment, Graham stepped to the side to escape being hit and almost simultaneously fired the single shot, which passed through the open driver's window and killed Chambers. Distance was four feet, from muzzle to head. Evidence at the scene confirms this unanimous account.

It was a shooting in defense of life" Mas Ayoob

Excellent insight, and definitely a more revealing account than in the media account........that's why one can NEVER base their assessment of a case solely on the media version of events.

 

[Guardian]

Should have aimed for the feet or knees.

Oh heck no, then you make him a cripple and he wins allot of money for being disabled from their on our and society pays for all the rest of his care for the rest of his life. No thank you, just shoot him dead and make the ex-wife work for it.

 

[David43515]

Should have aimed for the feet or knees.

I`ve gotta disagree. Shoot to wound is nice on paper, but a wounded man can still kill you. If you have to shoot, you don`t do so with the idea to wound or to kill. You do it with the intention to stop them immedietley right where they are.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Black Lion,

Here is why one does not shoot for feet or knees, or shoot guns out of their hands, or even give warning shots (and to all readers, this is vintage Ayoob advice.)

When you shoot for a appendage the bullet can miss the smaller target COM (Center of Mass) presents. The bullet can not only miss and hit someone else, but even if it hits, it can overpenitrate and hit someone else. And their is no guarantee and leg shot will stop the other person from hurting you or others.

The same goes for shooting a gun out of someones hand. That's even harder. Plus the shot might hit the gun itself and the bullet ricochet off the weapon and strike another person.

Warning shots can even be more dangerous. The bullet may very well travel a mile and if at a shallow angle, hit with enough force to kill. Plus the other person, seeing you shoot, might shoot back!

All in all, one shoots to stop the attack. And that is why COM is the most used aiming point for LEOs and civilians to.

Deaf

 

[still learning]

Hello, For those who use guns...know exactly how hard to hit or wound someone in the right place...

Tarket practice and training...like in martial arts training...when it is happening for real....adrenline...real actions...NOT the same!

The body will not always be in a relaxation and slow and clear thinking...

Things are happen real fast...and he reacted the way he felt at the time...maybe next time he will shoot in the air...and kill someone else with the fallen bullet instead?

This is a true case of "judge by twelve...instead of buried by six"

Aloha,

 

[rdonovan1]

I just found this thread and I haven't read all the links... but I live in Texas and I'm a Pre-Paid Legal member and an Independent Associate as some of you may know.

Contact me directly if you want to look at my services.

But... I had a guy come into my driveway, steaming mad, interrupt me while I was on my cordless phone with my sister and demand that I pay for his sons baseball glove. He threatened to hit me at least twice.

I waited for an opportunity and an excuse to TRASH him but I wanted him to make the first move.

Apparently, he was really intimidated by my complete lack of fear and he left. He yelled a threat to me again from the end of my block. I was going out of my way to ask him what he wanted me to do and why, so I could not be seen to be instigating anything.

I filed a Police Report when he left then I called my attorney. I can't give legal advice but I can relate some of what I was told.

My attorney told me, based on my circumstances, how and when I could indeed us either Lethal Force and/or a Pre-Emptive Strike. He told me where to download the law from the Internet. I kept notes, I have a copy of the law.

It didn't cost me any money beyond my monthly membership fee to clarify this issue. I got advice, I have a copy of the Penal Code in my house. I know my rights and that gives me peace of mind. Like I said, you can contact me if you want info on what services I offer. I won't post a link here but I can give you a link to a description of how we help with legal issues like this and Identity Theft which is worse. ID Theft is like Ninja tactics. They want to harm you anonymously and of course a good ID Thief may never be caught. A bad ID Thief may never be caught. But you can still protect yourself.

So Amen. Know your rights. As we say at Pre-Paid, "If you don't know your rights, you don't have any."

As it turns out, the Holy Spirit spared that guy's life. My son got mad at me for not wiping him out, but that was All Kenpo, All The Time. I had no fear and the guy marched home and no one got hurt. That was a win. That was one of our most valuable Martial Arts lessons. I think it is the first time I have used that lesson.

I may come back to read the rest of this and post again but I mostly wanted to echo the point that it is Good to know your rights and that the quote about "fear for my life" may be related to the Castle Doctrine.
:yoda:

I think that is so cool that you are a PPL member and associate. I myself am one as well. My father is an attorney and he is the one that got me into PPL as a member a long time ago.

I got into being an independent representative last year, but have so far not been able to get anyone interested in it as of yet.

I'm still working on it though.