An interesting premise

[Kacey]

Okay, now, let me start by saying there is no proof that this conversation occurred with the person to whom it is attributed (see end). However, it does raise an interesting philosophical question, which is why I'm posting this here instead of other possible areas.

This has a thought provoking message no matter how you believe.


The university professor challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?



A student bravely replied "Yes, he did!"



"God created everything?" The professor asked.



"Yes, sir," the student replied.



The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil."



The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with him self and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.



Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question, professor?"



"Of course," replied the professor.



The student stood up and asked, "Professor; does cold exist?"



"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?"



The students snickered at the young man's question.



The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist . According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody and every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have too little heat."



The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?"



The professor responded, "Of course it does".



The student replied, "Once again you are wrong, sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."


Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?"



Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."



To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love, that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."



The professor sat down.



The young man's name --- Albert Einstein

So.... does evil exist? Or is evil the absence of good, as posited above?

 

[terryl965]

That is a great one thanks Kacy
Terry

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I'd have to say the absence of good is simply apathy.

Jeff

 

[Kensai]

I'd have to say the absence of good is simply apathy.

Jeff

Hell yeah, I'm in agreement with you there mate. Nothing like a bit of apathy to make the western world obese and decadent eh.

 

[Don Roley]

A thought- provoking piece. But did it really originate with Einstein? It does not take away from the value of the discussion. But sometimes these stories on the internet add names and such to them.

 

[Kacey]

A thought- provoking piece. But did it really originate with Einstein? It does not take away from the value of the discussion. But sometimes these stories on the internet add names and such to them.

As I said at the beginning of the post, I can't vouch for the story being attributed to Einstein; the same disclaimer was on the email it came in. I posted it more for the concept than the attribution, and nearly left that part off so it wouldn't detract from the idea in the rest of the piece.

 

[OUMoose]

Evil exists, but it isn't the absence of "good". Pure Evil is the antithesis of pure good, for both have to exist to understand either of them. Sure, you can measure light, and you can measure the absence of light, but how would you know what light was without darkness? How would you know cold without feeling heat?

I'm a firm believer in universal balance. Having too much "good" is just as negative as too much "bad".

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Nice find!

 

[Ping898]

I read this in a book once and thought at the time it described evil well - That pure evil does exist, that evil is a kind of ultimate greed, so encompasing that it can not see anything beautiful or great without needing to possess it. Evil can not create, it can only copy, mar or destroy.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Evil exists, but it isn't the absence of "good". Pure Evil is the antithesis of pure good, for both have to exist to understand either of them. Sure, you can measure light, and you can measure the absence of light, but how would you know what light was without darkness? How would you know cold without feeling heat?

I'm a firm believer in universal balance. Having too much "good" is just as negative as too much "bad".

I think evil is relative (tee hee). You have to first decide what "good" is to have an absence of that good. The ten commandments is a good place to start. The focus of the ten commandments is family, and therefore anti-family concepts would be evil; however, not every one is raising a family or should be. I think the word "pure" is again relative to any given concept you put fourth to be judged as good and evil.
Sean

 

[zDom]

Pure evil is just like absolute zero.

Pure good ("God", The Creator) has no limits other than those He imposes on Himself to create "free will."

 

[OUMoose]

I think evil is relative (tee hee). You have to first decide what "good" is to have an absence of that good. The ten commandments is a good place to start. The focus of the ten commandments is family, and therefore anti-family concepts would be evil; however, not every one is raising a family or should be. I think the word "pure" is again relative to any given concept you put fourth to be judged as good and evil.
Sean

I guess my response to that would be, how do you know those commandments are "good"? Do you feel it down deep that they are, and you strive to live that way? If so, why did you need someone telling you, since you already knew? If not, wouldn't that be evil, since in the depths of your psyche, you still carry an aversion?

 

[tradrockrat]

Well when I was 18 I had a great debate in my philosophy class with Father Timmony about this very subject. My belief was that man is basically evil and that we invented the modern God to give us a reason to change. The old Gods were rough, nasty, greedy things that cared little for us, because in fact, "Evil" is the natural state of man and gods, but as we discovered the benefits of living in groups we decided that we needed to change to maintain this society and that it was easy to believe that since good things were happening when we hung out in groups, that some God was pleased when we did this and wanted us to do this. Some smart people figured this was a good way to get us all to follow the program, so to speak, and caring, rule making Gods became the fashion.


He ... disagreed.

 

[Last Fearner]

I'd have to say the absence of good is simply apathy.

First of all, just a point of reference to the above story - - the student did not use the term "good" in contrast to evil. Instead, it was said that evil is the absence of "God." This is consistent with biblical philosophy. For instance, (John 8:12) Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

If Jesus is the "light" then he is not the darkness. God did not create the darkness, because darkness is not a "thing" it is a condition that exists in the absence of light. God did not create hate. Hate is a condition that exists in the absence of Love. God did not create evil. Evil is a condition that exists in the absence of righteousness. All these good things exist in God, and are felt in the presence of God. Remove yourself from the presence of God, and you will experience darkness, hate, and evil.

The misunderstanding by the professor (and many people) comes from the saying that "God created all things," however, evil is not a "thing." Evil is a choice, and the act of disobedience. In fact, God created the Law, and with a law, comes the opportunity to disobey the law, and commit sin. Thus, it could be said that by creating the Law, God inversely created sin. He also created the punishment for sin, and the place where sinners will be sent. Nevertheless, this does not mean that God is a sinner.

The Father has the authority, right, and duty to establish rules for his children, and punish them if they disobey. The Father grants the child free will rather than to force obedience, and force love. The child who chooses to disobey the Father has sinned, and in so doing, manifests evil with his actions. The original sinner was Satan. Satan became evil when he chose to disobey God, and turned against God.

Jesus speaking to the Pharisees:
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Satan is the father of sin and evil. God is the Highest Authority. God creates the Law. Those who disobey God's Law are sinners, therefore they are evil (followers of Satan). God can not disobey himself - thus how can he sin? God is good, and allows free will rather than be a dictator. Through free will, the created can choose to obey the Creator, or choose to sin and become evil. It is not God that is evil, but the sinner.

Therefore, to answer the question, evil does exists, but not as a "thing" which was "created" by God, but as a choice of the individual to commit a sin in disobedience of God.

The professor's premise is flawed:
"If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

People create, and enact laws, and establish punishments for violations, but this does not make them criminals because of their work.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[elder999]

snopes.com

Still a pretty cool story, though........

 

[Kacey]

snopes.com

Still a pretty cool story, though........

I did look on snopes before I posted - but as I said, I posted it for the concept, not the attribution.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

First of all, just a point of reference to the above story - - the student did not use the term "good" in contrast to evil. Instead, it was said that evil is the absence of "God."

I purposely chose to use "good" as opposed to "God".

I did this as I believe in the moral absolutes of good and evil outside of religion or a supreme being.

Sorry if this caused any confusion,

Jeff

 

[heretic888]

So.... does evil exist? Or is evil the absence of good, as posited above?

As with anything else, "evil" and "good" exist within certain contexts.

Move outside the contexts, and these concepts are meaningless. All meaning, without exception, is contextual in nature. That is why the word "bark" has different meanings depending on how it is used in a given sentence. It is the context that defines it.

People talk about "good" and "evil" as if they are literal absolutes. This is irrational nonsense. This would be like talking about "hot" or "cold", "up" or "down", "big" or "small" as if they were absolutes. The only real difference being that the aforementioned examples can be measured in an ordinal fashion on a scale, whereas moral questions such as "good" and "evil" are largely subjective.

I personally believe all duality is a psychological illusion. People reify and absolutize their dualities in order to give their ego (the creator of the dualities) substance and reality, but the truth is that these dualities have no substantial reality outside of certain psychological and cultural contexts. "Up" is dependent on "down", the two concepts co-create one another, they do not exist as independent or unique concepts. So, too, with "good" and "evil", "tall" and "short", and so on.

Human beings turn their favored contexts into "absolutes" in order to justify them in the face of other conflicting "absolutes". That is why pretty much all cultures share a belief that "evil" exists, but they all pretty much disagree on what exactly "evil" is, except for one key point: whatever "evil" is, it is different than Us.

Once again, very telling....

 

[matt.m]

I enjoyed the story. I believe as Last Fearner. I will take it a bit further, I think that "negative" things do not exists. They are in fact abcenses of what would make them a good thing.

Afterall, God did not create evil just to amuse himself. He gave man free will and the rest is as they say history.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I guess my response to that would be, how do you know those commandments are "good"? Do you feel it down deep that they are, and you strive to live that way? If so, why did you need someone telling you, since you already knew? If not, wouldn't that be evil, since in the depths of your psyche, you still carry an aversion?

I don't strive to live by the commandments; however, I keep them in mind. Engaging in adultry with another man's wife might cause problems for me and my daughter. Stealing and murder could end in seperation from my daughter. Puting another god before God could only end in my daughter learning and doing the same. Honoring thy father and mother is again an example set for your offspring. I ask you which commandment is up for debate?
Sean