an experiment from doc

[kenpo_cory]

This is something I found on another forum that Doc posted. The thread didn't really go very far so I thought I would throw it out to you guys and see what the general thought on this is. What happened when you tried this?

From a natural or even foot position, step back into your strongest stance and have some one push you on the 12 to 6 line of resistence, (presumably the stance strength) and record what happens. Not a forceful striking kind of push. Simply place hands on the body at the shoulders and apply constant building pressure rearward until the stance breaksdown, which it will. Problem is, its not supposed to. You should be, essentially immoveable.

 

[pete]

a 2-legged stool will always topple

:asian:

 

[Elfan]

It is not possible to be "strong" in all directions. You will always have a direction in which you are strongest (which probably should point towards your oponent) and one inwhich you are weekest, with the rest inbetween.

If enough force is applied towards even your strongest base of support than of course you will fall. However, if you repeat your experiemnt, this time having your partner push from a variety of angles, you should find that your "12 to 6 line" is the strongest.

 

[kenpo_cory]

Originally posted by Elfan
It is not possible to be "strong" in all directions. You will always have a direction in which you are strongest (which probably should point towards your oponent) and one inwhich you are weekest, with the rest inbetween.

If enough force is applied towards even your strongest base of support than of course you will fall. However, if you repeat your experiemnt, this time having your partner push from a variety of angles, you should find that your "12 to 6 line" is the strongest.

But this "srongest" 12 to 6 line is the direction that the experiment calls for you to be pushed on. Doc says the stance will still break down.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by kenpo_cory
But this "srongest" 12 to 6 line is the direction that the experiment calls for you to be pushed on. Doc says the stance will still break down.

There are lots of variable to this to prove or disprove that theory. One thing being the size/mass of the person doing the pushing compared to the person being pushed....

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by kenpo_cory
But this "srongest" 12 to 6 line is the direction that the experiment calls for you to be pushed on. Doc says the stance will still break down.

Thats what I'm saying too. There is no such thing as being "immoveable." If you are pushed with enough force you will move no matter what. I was just pointing out that the 12-6 should be the strongest.

 

[MisterMike]

Isn't the strongest stance the Forward bow? As far as bracing against a lateral force that is?

Of course if the push comes from behind....

 

[MA-Caver]

Several years ago a close friend of mine had bought a Navy Seal H2H combat video. In it the instructor (style un-named) spoke of how looking at your opponent with their center of gravity in mind. You look for the imaginary third leg of their tripod and push against the direction it's standing.
He then demonstrated by having a student stand in a stance (?) and then with just his finger tips pushed (gently) on the student's shoulder and knocked him down/off balance. Really kewl stuff to watch. He went on to explain that of course the greater the force applied the greater the effect.
But as someone else here stated... if pushed in the right direction a person will fall because a 2-legged stool will always topple.

 

[Brother John]

There is always at least one (usually more) angles that will be very week.

IF you were to draw a line from the center of one foot to the center of the other and then push the person on a 90degree to that line... they MUST adjust or fall.

Just wondering, why the test? It's easy logic and physics.
Besides I think that the greatest strategy is fluid/mobile footwork that is constantly making use of momentum.

Just a thought...
Your Bro.
John

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by MACaver
Several years ago a close friend of mine had bought a Navy Seal H2H combat video. In it the instructor (style un-named) spoke of how looking at your opponent with their center of gravity in mind. You look for the imaginary third leg of their tripod and push against the direction it's standing.
He then demonstrated by having a student stand in a stance (?) and then with just his finger tips pushed (gently) on the student's shoulder and knocked him down/off balance. Really kewl stuff to watch. He went on to explain that of course the greater the force applied the greater the effect.
But as someone else here stated... if pushed in the right direction a person will fall because a 2-legged stool will always topple.

That sounds a lot like what kenpo people like to call the "weakest base of support." Very cool.

 

[JD_Nelson]

Every one seems to think this or that might happen. Has anyone tried it???

what were the results???


Salute

JD

 

[kenpo_cory]

Hmmmm, I don't think everyone is understanding what I'm saying here. I understand the concept of the weak angle. Every stance has a weak angle, thus the need for stance changes. The experiment calls for the person to be pushed on the SRONG angle of the stance. Read this again.

From a natural or even foot position, step back into your strongest stance and have some one push you on the 12 to 6 line of resistence, (presumably the stance strength) and record what happens.

I've done this, I just wanted to get some feedback from you guys.

 

[MisterMike]

I've done this in class, and I can stay in a forward bow all day, unless they guy is a monster. The strongest stance for the 12-6 line in my case was the forward bow, and if your back is aligned with your rear leg, you shouldn't be arched back by the pushing.

If they push up on you, and your front leg straightens, then you're going to go backwards.

The thing is, all stances are transitional, except the neutral bow, so you wouldn't really do this in application. Pushing matches are for Sumo

Kind regards,

 

[kenposikh]

Originally posted by kenpo_cory
Hmmmm, I don't think everyone is understanding what I'm saying here. I understand the concept of the weak angle. Every stance has a weak angle, thus the need for stance changes. The experiment calls for the person to be pushed on the SRONG angle of the stance. Read this again.

From a natural or even foot position, step back into your strongest stance and have some one push you on the 12 to 6 line of resistence, (presumably the stance strength) and record what happens.

I've done this, I just wanted to get some feedback from you guys.

It is quite correct the stance is not as strong as we would like however understanding body mechanics can and will assist in strengthening the stance.

INstead of say stepping back to a left or right neutral. try stepping forwards into the stance instead.