An Academic Bill of Rights?

[hardheadjarhead]

http://www.alligator.org/pt2/050323freedom.php


Apparently this would allow students to sue professors who don't respect their beliefs.

Can of worms, anybody?


Regards,


Steve

 

[dubljay]

This seems just a bit ridiculous. Why bother to have teachers at all if this is the case... people should just be taught by their parents/family. I find this offensive and disturbing in the extreme. I am all for everyone's right to believe as they want. But under that same right you have to tolerate those who do not believe the same as you. It seems to me that the intolerance and disrespect goes in both directions under this absurd idea.

To me this seems like an excuse to throw a tantrum and get away with not trying in a class simply because the teacher has different beliefs:tantrum:



:angry::flammad:

-Josh

 

[arnisador]

Being exposed to others' opinions can cause thinking and might even cause the hearer to change his or her opinions. This must be avoided at all costs.

""When someone convinces me I am wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?"" -John Maynard Keynes

 

[Flatlander]

I don't see this bill as immediately benefitting Right or Left. What I do see is a potential for higher education to be severely damaged. As the article states, professors may end up on the hook for legal costs, even if they don't lose.

The question this raises for me is how does this encourage anyone to persue an academic career? Why would you even want to teach in that environment?

It will, however, allow for insurance companies to offer a new product - academic malpractice.

 

[Tgace]

Everybody should have to learn the "give the professor what he wants" game just like the rest of us did....I have no idea how something like this could even be enforced. What a legal morass.

 

[arnisador]

I don't see this bill as immediately benefitting Right or Left. What I do see is a potential for higher education to be severely damaged. As the article states, professors may end up on the hook for legal costs, even if they don't lose.

In most cases the school will defend the faculty member in court, but not always. Either professors or their colleges will be sued often if this passes, and I agree that both sides of the political spectrum are exposed to risk.

The question this raises for me is how does this encourage anyone to persue an academic career? Why would you even want to teach in that environment?

One might think this applies only to humanities and social sciences and such, but a friend who teaches collegiate biology has had many complaints over his insistence on teaching evolution.

It will, however, allow for insurance companies to offer a new product - academic malpractice.

Heh.

 

[Flatlander]

In most cases the school will defend the faculty member in court, but not always. Either professors or their colleges will be sued often if this passes, and I agree that both sides of the political spectrum are exposed to risk.

The really sad part being, this will drive up the costs of education, putting it even further out of reach than it already is. Not good for education. Actually, bad for the entire American economy, come to think of it. Buy shares in Canadian insurance companies providing academic malpractice to US professors!! :ultracool

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Holy ****...I can't believe something like this has actually been considered.

While promoting the bill Tuesday, Baxley said a university education should be more than “one biased view by the professor, who as a dictator controls the classroom,” as part of “a misuse of their platform to indoctrinate the next generation with their own views.”

I love how there's no citations about how often, if at all, this is the case in university classrooms. How many students have actually been failed or kicked out of a class for disagreeing with a professor, for example?

Even if there was a high perecentage of such occurrences, rather than allowing the students to sue, they could use a more passive approach, such as anonymous grades (as is already done in most APA accredited law schools.)

Students who believe their professor is singling them out for “public ridicule” – for instance, when professors use the Socratic method to force students to explain their theories in class – would also be given the right to sue.

Wow, critical analysis and questioning count as "ridicule". If you dont want to have your theories criticized, why the hell would you attend a college or university?

But Baxley brushed off Gelber’s concerns. “Freedom is a dangerous thing, and you might be exposed to things you don’t want to hear,” he said. “Being a businessman, I found out you can be sued for anything. Besides, if students are being persecuted and ridiculed for their beliefs, I think they should be given standing to sue.”

Freedom is a dangerous thing? I can't even count how many alarms went off when I read that. I would be ok with this legislation if it responded to failed grades, refusal to acknowledge the student in class, or actual slander in response to contrary personal beliefs. However, the legislation as it stands is apparently designed to combat critical analysis, and also considers facts and reason as "personal beliefs".

Why is it so unheard of to say the professor shouldn’t be a dictator and control that room as their totalitarian niche?”

Well my guess is because there's no real evidence that this is what's going on at all. He has a list, but doenst want to show it. Interpretation: ********.

“I expect to be out there on my own pretty far,” he said. “I don’t expect to be part of a team.”

Wow, another renegade politician who don't give a damn 'bout no critics. Where've I heard that before? Presenting yourself as a martyr in this case just seems to be a convenient way of evading the fact that the critics just might have a ****ing point.

Alright, time for the anecdotal evidence. I've seen what this guy's allegedly concerned about in class. One very conservative student is constantly the butt of jokes from one very liberal professor. But you know what? The student has nothing to worry about, because the professor has no idea which final exam (the only grade in the class) is his. We get numbers to put on our papers, so it's anonymous. There's protection of academic freedom right there.

This isn't about protecting academic freedom; it's quite the opposite. It's an attempt to insulate conservative beliefs from reality. This wouldn't be true if the legislation was restricted to curbing ridicule or disrespect, but it in fact expands to critical analysis--a key component to any university classroom, particularly law school. I pray (and from me, that means something) that this doesnt pass the other committies, or, God-forbid, the Florida legislature.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

My first response was inappropriate for MT. As was my second.

My cleaner response: This is absolutely ridiculous. As it is right now, professors respect many things - any and all religious holidays (if a student tells me he or she is a Druid, for example, he or she gets Arbor Day off, no questions asked), professors are often consulted on personal problems, and students have NO PROBLEM arguing with professors, believe me!

This is not about students' rights. This is a fear tactic and gag order on academics - most of whom are NOT "leftist", but consider themselves neither right nor left, btw.

We don't want to scare students with new ideas, though, do we?

 

[Rich Parsons]

My first response was inappropriate for MT. As was my second.

My cleaner response: This is absolutely ridiculous. As it is right now, professors respect many things - any and all religious holidays (if a student tells me he or she is a Druid, for example, he or she gets Arbor Day off, no questions asked), professors are often consulted on personal problems, and students have NO PROBLEM arguing with professors, believe me!

This is not about students' rights. This is a fear tactic and gag order on academics - most of whom are NOT "leftist", but consider themselves neither right nor left, btw.

We don't want to scare students with new ideas, though, do we?

I had no problem arguing with instructors, then or now.

I also think this is going to cause problems, but this legislation probably came about becuase of people like this one instructor I had at a Major Univeristy. The insturctor had papers due on holidays of her religion and if were of that religion you could turn it on the next class, and not have to be present, as the instructo was not present either. By having an instructor, that is so far out there but has the backing of the local community or a major supporting portion of it, the instructor paints a very bad picture for the rest. So, as opposed to talking to the instructor or the Dean someone's dad talked to someone and now we have legislation be proposed to address a complaint. In my case, I learned how the system worked, and also did not have to depend upon a rich family member or crying for a lawyer, or for going straigh to the top, but working they system from within, by starting with the instructor first.

Learning how to get along with others is something that is learned at most colleges / universities.

Oh well, I guess people are not happy with the constraints we put on the public system for K through 12, and want to make the secondary system just as bad.

 

[MA-Caver]

“Some professors say, ‘Evolution is a fact. I don’t want to hear about Intelligent Design (a creationist theory), and if you don’t like it, there’s the door,’” Baxley said, citing one example when he thought a student should sue.

Rep. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach, warned of lawsuits from students enrolled in Holocaust history courses who believe the Holocaust never happened.

Similar suits could be filed by students who don’t believe astronauts landed on the moon, who believe teaching birth control is a sin or even by Shands medical students who refuse to perform blood transfusions and believe prayer is the only way to heal the body, Gelber added.

“This is a horrible step,” he said. “Universities will have to hire lawyers so our curricula can be decided by judges in courtrooms. Professors might have to pay court costs — even if they win — from their own pockets. This is not an innocent piece of legislation.”

<sarcastic> Seems to me that Fascism is trying to gain a foothold on all of us here in the good ole U.S. of A.
They pass this P.O.S. then it'll move down to High-schools and grade-schools and then everyone will be this mindless socialist state where everyone thinks and believes in the same thing. (insert music cue; Louis Armstrong's "What A Wonderful World")

 

[arnisador]

It's a reaction to all the recent stories from the last presidential campaign saying that the professoriate is something like 80% registered Democrats, I imagine.

I encourage my students to talk politics in class, but I never give my own opinions. At West Point they assumed I was liberal because I was a civilian; elsewhere they've assumed I was conservative.

 

[rmcrobertson]

I wish students would argue more. But the fact is, students generally are all too busy trying to slide through for a grade, or budy trying to find out what the professor wants them to say so they can parrot it back, or busy trying to sound just like everybody else.

And as was mentioned, the real point of this is to attack professors--a college student who can't risk a whole GRADE to stand up for their beliefs is pretty pathetic, given that students all over the world risk their lives to get into a classroom, let alone stand up for anything.

Hm. What it suggests, come to think of it, is that a lot of neo-conservatives are essentially gutless.

 

[Tgace]

Well, considering how much that "grade" costs ($$) when you come down to it...

I see some Universities are up to 25K a semester now.

I wouldnt be too hard on them. Professors after all are getting paid to argue their side....

 

[Tgace]

I just think its silly on the plain old practical side. If you cant get along with the professor and think he's treating you unfairly and/or going to fail you, thats what drop/add is for isnt it?

 

[rmcrobertson]

There ya go. You can also file a grievance if it's really bad, go to the student ombudsman, complain to the Dean...or even do what you'd do in a martial arts class, which is shaddup and try to learn something.

Then there's my favorite--go out after class, drink a pitcher of 'gansett, slam your fist on the table at the Grad Center Bar, and yowl, "Well, perhaps. But I think the MAN just has NO IDEA of how to properly interrogate the function of the Lacanian Imaginary in the production of the political subject in Althusser's WORK!!"

It useta impress the hell out of girls. Sad that those days are gone.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Well, considering how much that "grade" costs when you come down to it.

Please complete this sentence. I usually don't bother to criticize grammar, but I really have no idea what you're trying to say here.

If you cant get along with the professor and think he's treating you unfairly and/or going to fail you, thats what drop/add is for isnt it?

Well, drop/add is great for places that have four or five different professors teaching the same course, but if you're in a small university and the class is a requirement or pre-req., this solution can only go so far.

Like I said before, anonymous grading sounds like a pretty good protector of academic freedom to me. It protects the students' grades from unfair professors (be there any) and avoids the professors having to be responsible to legislatures concerning their content...as opposed to,say, the academic community.

 

[Tgace]

It costs $$ to go to school. Sticking around to argue your point with a Prof. when you think hes probably going to flunk you isnt too appealing. Why waste the $$? Thats what I was trying to say.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Ah, thanks. Tell the truth, most of the professors I've met are usually dying for their students to argue with them, at least from undergrad anyway.

 

[Tgace]

Yeah. As I remember it many of my undergrad classes were lecture hall snooze fests anyway.