am i over looking judo for real self defence?

[ballen0351]

The fact that you think you're supposed to lift your opponent says a lot. Mostly, it says that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Even though Taekwon-Do is primarily a striking art, you should have a better understanding of the principles involved with throws and takedowns than you've demonstrated. Unless you're a complete beginner, of course. You've been asked about your training before, but you've been evasive.

So, once again, what is your training an experience?

I was wondering about grappling and this in TKD I know nothing about it and was going to ask but didn't want to have the "stay on topic" police show up

 

[Dirty Dog]

I was wondering about grappling and this in TKD I know nothing about it and was going to ask but didn't want to have the "stay on topic" police show up

TKD has always included joint locks, take downs, throws, and pressure points. Just like pretty much every Martial Art does. They're not the primary focus, but they are included, especially in schools that focus on the Art, rather than the sport. Since they're not the focus (it IS a striking art, after all...) a low-geup ranked student wouldn't really be expected to have much (if any) real understanding of their use.

As for staying on topic... there are several links between the founders of TKD and Judo. Shockingly, Judoka can see connections between their training, and the grappling techniques taught in TKD. Just as a taekwondin can see connections between our kicking and the kicking done in JKD.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Oh Yeah it's not hard lifting a guy at 220lb or more. Not hard at all.

You don't need to lift your 220 lb opponent up. All you need is to get hold on one of his legs and hook/sweep/lift his other standing leg. When both of his legs are in the air, he will have to fall on his head. His own 220 lb weight will give his own head some trouble.

This is why the "single leg" is more powerful than you think. You use "single leg" to get your opponent's 1st legs. You then use other skill to get his 2nd leg. If your goal is to smash your opponent's head, you will use "single leg" a bit differently.

 

[Laplace_demon]

TKD has always included joint locks, take downs, throws, and pressure points. Just like pretty much every Martial Art does.

There are no throws taught in Shotokan Karate. So it's not true of all Karate/martial art styles. I have talked to elderly black belts in my TKD club, and they have not been taught throws.

 

[ballen0351]

TKD has always included joint locks, take downs, throws, and pressure points. Just like pretty much every Martial Art does. They're not the primary focus, but they are included, especially in schools that focus on the Art, rather than the sport. Since they're not the focus (it IS a striking art, after all...) a low-geup ranked student wouldn't really be expected to have much (if any) real understanding of their use.

As for staying on topic... there are several links between the founders of TKD and Judo. Shockingly, Judoka can see connections between their training, and the grappling techniques taught in TKD. Just as a taekwondin can see connections between our kicking and the kicking done in JKD.

I figured there had to be grappling in there it's notnots focus but I couldn't imagine it was totally absent. Thank

 

[ballen0351]

It's not it's focus.........still can't edit from my phone

 

[ballen0351]

There are no throws taught in Shotokan Karate. So it's not true of all Karate/martial art styles. I have talked to elderly black belts in my TKD club, and they have not been taught throws.

As far as I know there are like 9 throws in shotokan

 

[Laplace_demon]

You don't need to lift your 220 lb opponent up. All you need is to get hold on one of his legs and hook/sweep/lift his other standing leg. When both of his legs are in the air, he will have to fall on his head. His own 220 lb weight will give his own head some trouble.
.

Clever! If your brave enough to do a dive that is

 

[ballen0351]

The Nine Throws of Gichin Funakoshi Senshin The Enlightened Mind

 

[Laplace_demon]

As far as I know there are like 9 throws in shotokan

Really? Are you referring to kata patterns which could be developed as throws? That's not "being taught throws".

 

[Dirty Dog]

There are no throws taught in Shotokan Karate that I know of. So it's not true of all Karate/martial art styles.

Ah, so if you don't know about it, it doesn't exist?

Clearly, there is plenty that exists despite your ignorance of its existence.

I have talked to elderly black belts in my TKD club, and they have not been taught throws.

If true (which I frankly doubt) I'd feel very sorry for students of your club.

I note, as I am sure others do too, that you've once against avoided answering the direct question about your level of training and experience...

 

[ballen0351]

Really? Are you referring to kata patterns which could be developed as throws? That's not "being taught throws".

Nope I'm talking about throws. You should probably stop commenting on styled you don't actually train in

 

[Laplace_demon]

Nope I'm talking about throws. You should probably stop commenting on styled you don't actually train in

So asking a chief instructor in shotokan if he taught students throws is not enough? He showed me some pictures of a kata which could be developed as throws. That's about it.

 

[elder999]

There are no throws taught in Shotokan Karate. So it's not true of all Karate/martial art styles. I have talked to elderly black belts in my TKD club, and they have not been taught throws.

There are throws in Shotokan Karate.
Here are some images from the founder's book, written in 1929:

 

[elder999]

So asking a chief instructor in shotokan if he taught students throws is not enough? He showed me some pictures of a kata which could be developed as throws. That's about it.

If they teach the kata, they teach the throws.

Apparently, you weren't listening to what he told you.

 

[elder999]

,,,,,and, of course, if you study TKD, depending on what flavor, odds are good that these throws are in you kata, too........
....part of the reason I don't do TKD, anymore...

 

[Laplace_demon]

,,,,,and, of course, if you study TKD, depending on what flavor, odds are good that these throws are in you kata, too........
....part of the reason I don't do TKD, anymore...

Which Katas in TKD are you thinking of, and why was that a reason for you to leave the art?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Clever! If your brave enough to do a dive that is

To a grappler, the closer the distance, the safer it can be. If a grappler uses his "rhino guard" to move in, it will be very difficult for his striker opponent to punch him.

 

[elder999]

Which Katas in TKD are you thinking of, and why was that a reason for you to leave the art?

I was in Duk Sung Son's WTF-Chung do kwan, basically-and, well, all of them. Almost all of the kata have throws.

Of course, the teachers were completely unaware of this.I was also studying kyokushin at the same time (long story short-I went to boarding school, and did one art there and one at home) and the forms were basically the same, with a few stylistic variations. My kyokushin teacher knew the bunkai for those kata,and knew about the throws, so he could answer my congenital klutz questions about why we do it this way, or that.

So, basically, at that time, TKD could be okay, but if you were looking for any depth, everywhere I looked it didn't have any...not to mention I was pretty well kneeling at the altar of full contact by then...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I was in Duk Sung Son's WTF-Chung do kwan, basically-and, well, all of them. Almost all of the kata have throws.

Of course, the teachers were completely unaware of this.

My long fist system also claims to have throwing. But every time my long fist brothers competed in the Shuai-Chiao (Chinese wrestling) tournament, they all lose big time. This is why I decided to train the "true" throwing art instead.

It's not whether a style has the throwing art or not. It's whether or not that style treats "throwing art" seriously as part of their daily training. When you train your sparring in the ring, someone else train their wrestling on the mat, of course they will have better wrestling skill than you have. But you will have better sparring skill than they have and that's for sure.