Am I missing something

[Kacey]

I had a student whose pastor spent a significant amount of time telling him that he shouldn't learn self-defense, because "Jesus said to turn the other cheek" - so he decided to do some research on it. It is, generally, taken for granted that this means that one should turn away from violence - but he found this alternate explanation as well:

A figurative interpretation relies on historical and other factors.[1] At the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance. If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed. The other alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, they argue[citation needed], by turning the other cheek the persecuted was in effect demanding equality.

Now, Wikipedia is only so reliable - but he found this explanation in multiple places. It did not, originally, mean lie there and take it, as in "the meek shall inherit the earth" - it meant stand up for yourself as an equal to the person who struck you. But then, many people who rely on the Bible as the sole source of their morality often recite verbatim what their religious leader told them, and tend to focus only on those parts of the Bible that support that view. After all, 2000 years and multiple translations couldn't possibly have changed how people view the world, could it? :idunno:

As far as this particular woman goes... people who are sufficiently self-righteous to make such a statement, and in such a fashion, are unreachable. Blow it off; she's an idiot who lets others do her thinking for her.

 

[ktaylor75]

Okay, I am fairly new to Kenpo (only been training for 8 months), but of what I have learned so far in the style I practice, it is mostly a self-defense type martial art. Before a person makes a judgment about something, one should be careful to understand what it is they are judging. I am reminded of an old saying I heard years ago about what it means to "assume" something...I'm sure most of you know where that is headed. But anyway, as to martial arts glorifying violence, I can surely think of many other things in this world that do more for glorifying violence than learning self-defense.

• How about gangs? How about the fact that my children have to wear a school uniform to middle school because of gang violence carried out by 11 year olds in our community? Glorifying violence? Definitely!
• How about video games such as "Grand Theft Auto" or "Bully"? Again, glorifying violence.
• But Kenpo? No, not glorifying violence...rather, helping people learn to defend themselves against those that do glorify violence. Having been a victim of sexual assault twice in my life...I have a huge problem with people like that woman, who had no business butting into your conversation in the first place, who are blatantly ignorant to that which they know nothing about.

Well, that was my 2-cents worth, hope I did not offend anybody.

 

[Empty Hands]

It did not, originally, mean lie there and take it, as in "the meek shall inherit the earth" - it meant stand up for yourself as an equal to the person who struck you.

I kind of doubt it. In Matthew, the sentence immediately preceding this one is "Do not resist an evil person." In Luke, the next sentence is "If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic." Given the context, it would be quite a stretch to interpret turning the other cheek as "demand equality."

 

[chinto]

Ok so a few months ago I told the story about my aunt damning me for practicing martial arts. Well the other day I was out at one of the malls here in town wearing one of my shirts from my dojo. This family(man and women and 3 kids, looked to be about 11, 8 and 5) comes up to me and is asking me about my shirt and wear i practice. The man held a BB in TKD from a dojo in his home town in Florida and was very interested in putting his kids in the MA's and was considering taking it up again. Well I was telling him about the dojo (where it is and what we study) and was talking about my instructors when this women in her late 40's early 50's comes up to me and says and I quote "Ive been listening to you this whole time and I want you to know that you are going straight to hell for glorifying violence." I was stunned and she walked off before I could respond (thank the lord cause I was a little hungover and might have said something I regret )

Now to the point: AM I MISSING SOMETHING??? Do I have a giant sign following me around that says I'll anyone and everyone or something? Was there a memo or meeting that I missed?

What is wrong with people?

Input please!!!

B

OK what you got was the ignorance of people who have no clue what real martial arts is about. At best they think of the bad old "kungfu theater movies" when they think of martial arts of any kind.
You might start as far as your aunt is concerned pointing out that martial arts has very little if any thing to do with religion, and that there were in the past martial orders of monks such as the Knights of Malta ( yes they actually still exist as an order of Knight hood and all) and others such as Knights of the Bath and others who are very much Christians and some are even ordained priests as well as monks. ( depending on the order)
but as far as the persons who accosted you for "glorifying violence" you might point out next time that you " are your brothers keeper, and as such have a duty to help defend the defenseless! " and that the knights of old who defended Christianity were trained in combat as well, and that does not mean that some how you glorify it, but rather that you are more likely to hate it, but be ready to defend against it from those who would injure and kill the innocent and defenseless!

many think that some how any martial art has some kind of eastern religion involved with it some how. not sure why but many do. ( especially the fundamentalists who have never looked into it but assumed so from movies from the the late 1960's and 1970's out of Hong Kong.) { they some how think that you are perhaps budest or Shintoist from the fact that you study martial arts.}

 

[IcemanSK]

As I read the OP again, I have an even stronger reaction to the fact that this woman came up to you out of the blue. She doesn't know you. She's not a relative, your boss or anyone else that has any bearing over your life. She's just a gal with an unsolicited opinion on your life. She's basically a stranger saying, "I don't like your shirt." The fact that you know (or suspect) that her reasons for it are her religious ideas are secondary to the way she approached you with her unwelcomed opinion. It really shouldn't be taken with any more weight that a teenage boy walking up to & saying, "I don't like your shirt." The fact that she had some allegedly religious agenda doesn't add to the weight of her wprds. Although I appreciate that it does add to the damage done by her words.

 

[morph4me]

I think that the next time someone tells you you're going to hell should be a big smile and an enthusiastic " Great, see you there"

 

[Tames D]

If I told you once, I told you twice. Lose the dreadlocks and beard. That scares little old ladies

.

 

[Tez3]

I wonder what she would have said to the likes of Kimbo Slice?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Ok so a few months ago I told the story about my aunt damning me for practicing martial arts. Well the other day I was out at one of the malls here in town wearing one of my shirts from my dojo. This family(man and women and 3 kids, looked to be about 11, 8 and 5) comes up to me and is asking me about my shirt and wear i practice. The man held a BB in TKD from a dojo in his home town in Florida and was very interested in putting his kids in the MA's and was considering taking it up again. Well I was telling him about the dojo (where it is and what we study) and was talking about my instructors when this women in her late 40's early 50's comes up to me and says and I quote "Ive been listening to you this whole time and I want you to know that you are going straight to hell for glorifying violence." I was stunned and she walked off before I could respond (thank the lord cause I was a little hungover and might have said something I regret )

Now to the point: AM I MISSING SOMETHING??? Do I have a giant sign following me around that says I'll anyone and everyone or something? Was there a memo or meeting that I missed?

What is wrong with people?

Input please!!!

B

Ask her whom she voted for or is going to vote for. She is just as bad. Point it out.
Sean

 

[CoryKS]

I wonder what she would have said to the likes of Kimbo Slice?

Not a thing. Somebody around here had a quote in their sig to the effect that more people protest fur than leather because it's easier to harass old women than bikers.

 

[Tez3]

I always have a sharp witty answer for people like this....the trouble is I don't think of it until hours afterwards!
That's the only thought I'd have about people like this, they really aren't worth worrying about.

 

[tellner]

Now that everyone's had a good rant about the stupidity of the Flock I'd like to offer a radical alternative.

Most people think martial arts are a little strange.

What they aren't familiar with they aren't comfortable with.

When they're uncomfortable and in unfamiliar territory they react defensively. This usually means setting a little script in motion that makes them the heroes of their internal dramas. And that means casting whatever is interrupting their normal dream state as the villain. Whatever it is gets pushed further outside the circle until it's a grotesque caricature that can be safely lumped together with Everything Bad. It doesn't have to be rational as long as it sounds good to them and lets them get back to the comforting comfortable place they usually live.

We are not rational animals. We are rationalizing animals.

In this case you happened to run into someone whose comfort zone doesn't include martial arts. It means enough to you and your self image that it hurt when you were on the receiving end of their emotional self defense. The important thing is to realize what it is - a reaction that is ultimately based on fear, attachment and a desire for security - and not mistake it for a conscious rejection of you as you really are.

The discussion here has largely, but not entirely been an exercise in the same thing from the other side. The "sheeple", the "pansies", whatever insulting term people want to use are pushed outside our circle into the realm of grotesque demonic caricatures of real people. That way we defend our own beliefs about ourself and make ourselves the heroes. We can go back to feeling safe and happy about ourselves.

Same disease, same symptoms. It's like the man with the disfiguring disease said on first looking in the mirror "But on me it looks good"

It's also possible that the person has good personal reasons for feeling that way. Maybe there was a traumatic incident or two at the hands of someone who did martial arts. Maybe there was a crime that branded an aversion to all violence good or band onto the psyche. Who knows? Do any of the dismissers care, or is it just to much trouble to try and see what's going on?

A lot of time it is too much trouble to do anything about it. There are only so many hours in the day. But if a person wanted to make a change the first thing to do is break that script. Martial arts is a weird thing with foreign sounding rituals and bizarre costumes where people do insane things like spending hours hitting each other.

The key to making it less alien is to find some point of similarity with something the other person is comfortable with and can relate to on a human level. Maybe it's at the level of sports. Maybe it's the idea of having a social group with a shared interest. Maybe it's fitness. Maybe there's some common interest that you and the other person share that can be used for an "It's just like that" moment. Sometimes it goes so far as "If you show me yours I'll show you mine" with something they enjoy.

Once you've made the human connection and found or created something in common it's possible to bring a part or two into the realm of the known and safe. Then it can be seen on its own merits. Until then the only way the person has to relate to it is as something Bad. And anything Bad is everything Bad.

The woman who came up and put in her two cents was incredibly rude, no doubt about it. And that rudeness may just be the way she operates. It's probably not worth the time and energy to do the work. But if a person wanted to change the attitude that's how he or she could go about it.

 

[Tez3]

In Yorkshire where I live people pride themselves on telling the truth, what they actually mean is they feel free to express opinions about whatever they want and if it's personal and hurtful well thats tough! Living in a village near a small town means everyone feels free to tell you what they think whether they know you or not! They simply don't understand that you really don't want their opinion especially on things they know nothing about!

 

[Nolerama]

Did I wander into the Study by mistake? I could've sworn I was looking for a thread about why people are judgmental to martial artists...

On the original note, I think everyone likes the fact that I'm into the MAs. The only negative response might be from my softball team. I've found out that my swing is off after boxing and wrestling the night before.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Republicans…. Grumble grumble… democrats:disgust:.. grumble grumble:argue:…. EVIL EMPIRE….GRRRRR:angry:…..ice melting:tantrum:…or not melting:duh:….WELL I NEVER!!!!:soapbox: Oops sorry this isn’t the study is it and I am :-offtopic

To get back on track as Nolerama has done.

I have been thinking about this and I cannot remember anyone ever getting upset that I was a martial artist, and I have been at this a long time.

But then I do rather enjoy striking fear in the hearts of my fellow man so maybe I just didn’t notice :EG:

 

[Balrog]

Well I was telling him about the dojo (where it is and what we study) and was talking about my instructors when this women in her late 40's early 50's comes up to me and says and I quote "Ive been listening to you this whole time and I want you to know that you are going straight to hell for glorifying violence."

Hmmm.....T-shirt opportunity here, methinks.

GLORIFYING VIOLENCE AND GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL
AT _________ MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOL!


:boing1:

 

[Tez3]

What most people say to me is the perennial favourite 'you don't look like a blackbelt' lol or 'all that fancy stuff doesn't work you know'. However I have been taken to task for reading my horoscope by the local bush baptists here. It seems if you read horoscopes you will go off to hell.
I've heard of the anti martial arts thing before where the argument is that Jesus said turn the other cheek but as I understand it he only said do it once, if they hit the second cheek you could belt them back! I do get very flippant with people who try to impose their opinion on you or who decide they know what your opinion is and blast you for it. People who know they are right think it's their duty to inform you of the error of your ways. Best thing is to walk away.

 

[SageGhost83]

People who know they are right think it's their duty to inform you of the error of your ways.

Ugh! I know the type, not my cup of tea, either. They can believe what they want to believe, when they start physically trying to do something, then that is when they cross the line.

 

[Xue Sheng]

People who know they are right think it's their duty to inform you of the error of your ways. Best thing is to walk away.

Is this the same as "those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves"

 

[Tez3]

Hmmm.....T-shirt opportunity here, methinks.

GLORIFYING VIOLENCE AND GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL
AT _________ MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOL!


:boing1:

I want one!!