Am I Man Enough for Ninjutsu?

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I was being helpful and for you to say I'm not being helpful is quite offensive.

I don't think offensive means quite what you think it is...being corrected on something is not offensive, and being informed that you're not being helpful when you aren't is also not something you should be taking offense to. Now, I have no idea whether or not you are correct, but I see two options here.
1: You think you are correct and helpful. In that case, you can explain how and figure out why people are disagreeing with you.
2: You realize that you're incorrect, or the other person has more knowledge. In which case you either can leave it alone and let them explain, or ask questions to understand more.
I can't think of a third way where the appropriate response would be to inform the person they are being offensive, and leaving.

Unless, someone actively stated you are a bad person in some way, or you do not belong here (no one said either of those), in which case that response would make more sense. If I somehow missed where they were being actively offensive please enlighten me.

 

[Aiki Lee]

And what is the correct information then?

I was referring to his description of ninjutsu. It is completely inaccurate. I'm not going to go into great detail about what ninjutsu actually is as there have been countless threads on that already.

The original post was about whether or not the OP was "man enough" to continue training in the art, referring I believe to a perceived lack of toughness.

The issue is that he will likely have similar issues with any martial art. His body will either adjust to the training or he may need to seek advice from his physician about physical activity.



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[Chris Parker]

You mean where you have just insulted posters without adding any informational content.

Oh boy... really? Point out the insults. Our new (and, seemingly, no longer with us) member made comments that were inaccurate, based on thinking he had insider knowledge of the art after talking to someone... claiming to be "one of the few people who knows someone who has trained in Ninjutsu long term"... which was, justifiably, pointed out to be not accurate, correct, or even the best insight someone on the thread could have had.

I needed to add no more additional information, as the pertinent aspect was his lack of genuine exposure, compared to members of the forum who have actual knowledge in this field... as well as re-iterating aspects that had already been covered in the one and a half pages of this thread (seriously, it's not a long one for him to have read through first...).

You are basically trolling.

I don't think that term means what you think it does...

Read that response. Apart from you being awesome and everyone else being ignorant what did you contribute to the discussion?

At that point, I was heading off a line of thinking that was potentially damaging to the OP's development and progress... just so you know.

That's the thing. You're seeing only a small part of the story... you're seeing someone come along, offer poorly thought out advice based on a lack of knowledge and insight, as well as ignoring a number of aspects covered in the subsequent thread (after the OP itself), who was called on it, got all butt-hurt, and decided that he didn't like having his ideas criticised, and left. The flip side is how the post made by that member could have been interpreted by the OP (or any others in a similar situation who may have read it)... basically telling them that what they were doing was bad, they were doing the wrong art, they should do something else... which is simply not helpful in the slightest. So my response wasn't to attack the new member or their viewpoint (you may notice that I explain why it's bad advice throughout, I acknowledge his good intentions, but encourage him to think a bit more about what he's in a position to say... and I also welcomed him to the forum... for me, this is incredibly cordial...), it was to help guide them to have a more productive time here, and to limit the potential damage his post could have caused.

It's always more than you think, you know...

I would be surprised if you actually answer that question.

You're kidding, right? Do you actually read these threads, or just decide what you think is happening, and run on that false idea?

Page one, post #9. Enjoy.

I mean fatninja who has been training two days has been more helpful.

He's been encouraging to the OP... at this stage, that's what he needs, so yes, I agree he's been helpful... however, "more helpful" is rather subjective... and you may notice that much of his comments were simply more along the lines of "I'm with ya, buddy, same boat, hang in there!" (which is great). Again, page one, post 9... read.

 

[oftheherd1]

Short on time so I have only read the first page of this thread. I once knew a printer tech who had something that sounds similar to what you have. I seems he had to be pretty careful not to dislocate joints.

First, as Chris Parker said, it is difficult to answer without knowing more about you and the school. But I am surprised at the number of injuries that quick as are some others. Also at the apparent lack of conversations from the teacher, unless you just haven't told us about that.

I really don't know that much about your medical condition. But I am going to go out on a limb and suggest you try a striking art like Tae Kwon Do or a Karate that does not do grappling. Since you have apparently had your medical condition most or all of your life, you would know best it you could easier do striking without dislocating joints, or not. That would also let you in effect, exercise to get your weight down. At 300 lbs, even with your height, you are rather overweight for break falls. At least until you toughen up a bit, and even then you are going to be more injury prone. Your hands and legs are important appendages for slowing you down, and likely can't at this time do that.

It is a shame that you aren't closer to Hendersonville. You have probably noticed that member gpseymore teaches there. From his posts over the time I have been here, I can pretty much guarantee he would be a really good instructor for you, and more attentive to your current condition. He teaches a form of grappling, but it would probably be better for you, art wise as well as instructor wise.

But again, you may want to consider a striking art.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It is a shame that you aren't closer to Hendersonville. You have probably noticed that member gpseymore teaches there. From his posts over the time I have been here, I can pretty much guarantee he would be a really good instructor for you, and more attentive to your current condition. He teaches a form of grappling, but it would probably be better for you, art wise as well as instructor wise.

I appreciate that vote of confidence.

 

[oftheherd1]

I appreciate that vote of confidence.

Imho you have earned it

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Imho you have earned it

How arrogant would I be if I clicked "Agree" on that one?

 

[jks9199]

I'm not bashing the instructor or students. The student that was wrecking my hand with knuckle punches was showing me over and over how to do the move. He was very helpful or so he was trying. My martial arts iq is extremely low so I think he was trying to dumb everything down for me, which by that time I was in so much pain I couldn't think about the moves lol.

The instructor did work with me some but did spend a better part of the time with the more experience group. I don't mind that at all. There were only 5 student. 3 regulars in a group and 1 regular with me. I did feel like I may have been slowing the student with me down, he may have just been trying to hurry up an tech me the move so he could move to the other group. Overall I like the group it was just very rough, or in my eyes it was.

I appreciate all the feed back. If the pain goes away by next week I'm definitely going back. I'll be more vocal about my limitations. I'm going to start doing more conditioning. I have a pilates machine that I'm thinking might be quite helpful with this as well as a full set of competition kettlebells. So, I'll get to work on all this and hope to see some change soon! Thanks all.

I've been re-reading this thread and want to call out one issue I spotted here... I don't know who was training with you -- obviously -- but I am careful when I pair up students, especially if one is supposed to be instructing a new student. I expect them to have the ability to work with control, and to pick up on problems, adapting to the new student's limitations. For example, the other night, we did a bit of sparring. I had students there ranging from black belts to one woman that was on her second class. As I told her -- I wasn't throwing her in the deep end. I was very careful who worked with her, and how it was done. She had fun, she confronted some pressure and fears, went home uninjured, and will be back next week. What I can't tell about your situation, though, is what information and feedback you were giving the student who was working with you. That can play a big role in injuries... I've been the guy not mentioning how badly I was being hurt by a demonstration, and paid for it with injuries. Don't be that guy! Let them know that it's bothering you.

 

[drop bear]

I've been re-reading this thread and want to call out one issue I spotted here... I don't know who was training with you -- obviously -- but I am careful when I pair up students, especially if one is supposed to be instructing a new student. I expect them to have the ability to work with control, and to pick up on problems, adapting to the new student's limitations. For example, the other night, we did a bit of sparring. I had students there ranging from black belts to one woman that was on her second class. As I told her -- I wasn't throwing her in the deep end. I was very careful who worked with her, and how it was done. She had fun, she confronted some pressure and fears, went home uninjured, and will be back next week. What I can't tell about your situation, though, is what information and feedback you were giving the student who was working with you. That can play a big role in injuries... I've been the guy not mentioning how badly I was being hurt by a demonstration, and paid for it with injuries. Don't be that guy! Let them know that it's bothering you.

Also with drills people need to abandon them. Reset. And try again. Rather than make them work when they are not working.

Especially things like joint lock throws.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Also with drills people need to abandon them. Reset. And try again. Rather than make them work when they are not working.

Especially things like joint lock throws.

If it would let me, I'd agree with this twice.

 

[adpatterson]

Hey guys, sorry for just now posting again. Didn't mean for this to turn into an argument by any means. I want to restate, the people at that dojo were extremely nice and the instructor was extremely nice and very inviting for me to come train. I think a majority of what happened is due to my weight. As one pointed out, putting a 300 lb whale of a man to the ground isn't the easiest landing. I could have easily injured the shoulder and lower back there. I know I pulled my groin doing a side roll at the start of the second practice. I am a bit of a stubborn man myself and continued doing those until the next principle was taught. I do know that the damage to my hand was from being punched my a knuckle punch technique, it was done to me probably about 15X (i exaggerated early to be funny) but I assure you i grimaced in pain every time. I personally thought my grimaces of pain when joint locks hit and such were quite evident but I may be mistaken. All I know is it seemed every move hurt badly on that second day of training (and much of the first day as well), like my arms and wrist were being cranked way to far. I don't blame anyone but myself. I should have known I wasn't ready for something like that. Ive always dreamed of doing a martial art like that and should-a tried when i was younger and extremely fix but I was focused on other sports and activities at that age. Anyway, hopefully I can go back to that group some day when I get in better shape. I'm currently looking for a workout buddy or trainer to keep me accountable about working out every day to try to drop these pounds. Thanks for all the help you guys have offered!!!

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Hey guys, sorry for just now posting again. Didn't mean for this to turn into an argument by any means. I want to restate, the people at that dojo were extremely nice and the instructor was extremely nice and very inviting for me to come train. I think a majority of what happened is due to my weight. As one pointed out, putting a 300 lb whale of a man to the ground isn't the easiest landing. I could have easily injured the shoulder and lower back there. I know I pulled my groin doing a side roll at the start of the second practice. I am a bit of a stubborn man myself and continued doing those until the next principle was taught. I do know that the damage to my hand was from being punched my a knuckle punch technique, it was done to me probably about 15X (i exaggerated early to be funny) but I assure you i grimaced in pain every time. I personally thought my grimaces of pain when joint locks hit and such were quite evident but I may be mistaken. All I know is it seemed every move hurt badly on that second day of training (and much of the first day as well), like my arms and wrist were being cranked way to far. I don't blame anyone but myself. I should have known I wasn't ready for something like that. Ive always dreamed of doing a martial art like that and should-a tried when i was younger and extremely fix but I was focused on other sports and activities at that age. Anyway, hopefully I can go back to that group some day when I get in better shape. I'm currently looking for a workout buddy or trainer to keep me accountable about working out every day to try to drop these pounds. Thanks for all the help you guys have offered!!!

Your weight was almost certainly a factor, but I can guarantee it's not the only one or an inherent disqualifier for training. I have had multiple training partners in the 300 pound range, some of whom have done quite well. It sounds like you also have issues with joint stability, strength, and flexibility which were also major factors.

That said, once you're healed up you can still train relatively safely without waiting until you lose a bunch of weight and get into shape. The key is to recognize your limitations and work with them accordingly.

Some suggestions along those lines ...

Inform your instructor of your physical limitations and health issues before you start class. Also let your training partners know that you need to take things easy due to health restrictions.

Be sure to warm up thoroughly before each training session. Stretching is not a warm up. Warming up means actually raising your temperature and ideally getting a little bit of sweat going.

It sounds like you aren't yet ready to handle receiving a technique such as a joint lock in conjunction with going to the ground. That's okay - practice them separately. You can practice basic breakfalls from a squatting position, then gradually work your way up to slow rolls from a squatting position, then breakfalss from standing, then rolls from standing, then eventually taking the fall while someone is applying a technique to you. In the meantime, when drilling techniques with a partner, tap out as soon as you feel the lock coming on that would force you to the ground. If the technique being drilled is an actual throw, sit that one out and drill your breakfalls.

If you are receiving a technique that significantly hurts each time (such as the strike to your hand), ask your training partner to soften it up rather than just grimacing.

Not all schools are willing to work with someone who needs to take things that slowly, but many are. Don't give up too soon. (However, do get your current injuries healed up before going back.)

 

[drop bear]

Your weight was almost certainly a factor, but I can guarantee it's not the only one or an inherent disqualifier for training. I have had multiple training partners in the 300 pound range, some of whom have done quite well. It sounds like you also have issues with joint stability, strength, and flexibility which were also major factors.

That said, once you're healed up you can still train relatively safely without waiting until you lose a bunch of weight and get into shape. The key is to recognize your limitations and work with them accordingly.

Some suggestions along those lines ...

Inform your instructor of your physical limitations and health issues before you start class. Also let your training partners know that you need to take things easy due to health restrictions.

Be sure to warm up thoroughly before each training session. Stretching is not a warm up. Warming up means actually raising your temperature and ideally getting a little bit of sweat going.

It sounds like you aren't yet ready to handle receiving a technique such as a joint lock in conjunction with going to the ground. That's okay - practice them separately. You can practice basic breakfalls from a squatting position, then gradually work your way up to slow rolls from a squatting position, then breakfalss from standing, then rolls from standing, then eventually taking the fall while someone is applying a technique to you. In the meantime, when drilling techniques with a partner, tap out as soon as you feel the lock coming on that would force you to the ground. If the technique being drilled is an actual throw, sit that one out and drill your breakfalls.

If you are receiving a technique that significantly hurts each time (such as the strike to your hand), ask your training partner to soften it up rather than just grimacing.

Not all schools are willing to work with someone who needs to take things that slowly, but many are. Don't give up too soon. (However, do get your current injuries healed up before going back.)

Idley curious what do you think of this from a safety point of view?
It looks like the techniques described.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Idley curious what do you think of this from a safety point of view?
It looks like the techniques described.

It all depends on how they are trained. The techniques Hatsumi is showing the clip aren't the same as the ones the OP is talking about, but they are related. In the clip, Hatsumi is demonstrating on experienced practitioners - he's going a little snappier than you would want to for drilling reps, but his demo dummies know how to handle it. Also it's a demo and such things are generally hammed up a bit for sales purposes.

Regarding the version of the "punching the punch" technique that the OP was practicing when he got his hand broken: I accidentally broke a training partner's hand while demonstrating that same technique about 30 years ago. Contributing factors: I was clueless and unaware, my training partner was being macho and stiff, refusing to move and react to the technique, and we were both showing off for the same woman. It is possible to drill the technique safely, but it helps to have better guidance from instructors than we had at the time.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Idley curious what do you think of this from a safety point of view?
It looks like the techniques described.

Mostly light contact and well-controlled, and it seems to be what they are expecting, so no real safety concerns I saw. Some of it looked unpleasant, but training is at times. Some of those quick locks (the strike to the back of the arm to lock the elbow) wouldn't be a good idea to get on a too-frequent basis, but I suspect that's not how they do those every time they practice.

 

[adpatterson]

Hello all, I’ve revived this post to let you guys know I’ve lost 85lbs in last 3-4 months. I was hoping to make an attempt at the martial art again. There was a gentleman here that trained Bujinkan in Charlotte NC an I was hoping he may show up with information on that club as my attempts to reach them have failed. Thanks much!

Aaron

 

[drop bear]

Hello all, I’ve revived this post to let you guys know I’ve lost 85lbs in last 3-4 months. I was hoping to make an attempt at the martial art again. There was a gentleman here that trained Bujinkan in Charlotte NC an I was hoping he may show up with information on that club as my attempts to reach them have failed. Thanks much!

Aaron

Nice work on the weight loss.

 

[Steve]

Hello all, I’ve revived this post to let you guys know I’ve lost 85lbs in last 3-4 months. I was hoping to make an attempt at the martial art again. There was a gentleman here that trained Bujinkan in Charlotte NC an I was hoping he may show up with information on that club as my attempts to reach them have failed. Thanks much!

Aaron

Way to go!

 

[hoshin1600]

Hello all, I’ve revived this post to let you guys know I’ve lost 85lbs in last 3-4 months. I was hoping to make an attempt at the martial art again. There was a gentleman here that trained Bujinkan in Charlotte NC an I was hoping he may show up with information on that club as my attempts to reach them have failed. Thanks much!

Aaron

Wow so great to hear. Glad you gave us the update.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hello all, I’ve revived this post to let you guys know I’ve lost 85lbs in last 3-4 months. I was hoping to make an attempt at the martial art again. There was a gentleman here that trained Bujinkan in Charlotte NC an I was hoping he may show up with information on that club as my attempts to reach them have failed. Thanks much!

Aaron

Good to see you back! Good work on the fitness, and if you're in the Charlotte area, give me a holler sometime - I'm only a couple of hours away.