Aikido is the best self defense

[Steve]

Also, I don't know what would happen if you grab my wrist. But I'll give you three guesses what will happen if you pull my finger.

 

[ballen0351]

I think we've all lost track of what this thread is about.

Is it beautiful?

no too many man buns and man pony tails

Are there any fancy movements or wasting of energy?

makes me dizzy does that count?

Does it make you calm?

nauseous(see above)

Is it elegant and also deadly?

depends on whos doing it

And last but not least, can someone please tell me once and for all if Aikido is THE BEST for self defense?

no such thing as the best

 

[drop bear]

I can't comment on Aikido since I have never studied it. In the Hapkido I studied, we were very defense oriented, tending to react to attacks. But we did learn offenses, generally using a defensive move we had already learned, but using it to attack.

I don't understand your last statement. If we are, as we usually say, learning MA to protect ourselves from attack, how is it so wrong to wait for an attack rather that initiate an attack and thus become an aggresser? Not to mention that when an opponent finds so many of his attacks being used against him, he may decide it isn't worth it.

Having the ability to initiate does kind of help to be honest.

I mean you probably don't want to stand there while the other guy puts a headlock on you or something.

 

[drop bear]

My point is that the holding the hand never ends anyone on their butt. It's what's done with that hand, or after the grip that the aiki technique will respond to. To respond earlier is to respond to a non-attack, which is foreign to a pure-aiki approach (though many of the aiki techniques can easily adjust to that use).

I have people ask me about some of the static grip releases I teach. This is why I teach them. Just one more tool to adapt to differing situations.

Where as for me this is where the concept of "you messed up a long time ago" comes to play. A move is not just done. There are a whole bunch of steps that lead to that move.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When A grabs B's wrist, since it's easier to twist B's arm against A's thumb (1 finger) than to twist B's arm against A's other 4 fingers, A can predict the direction that B will twist his arm. That information can give A the advantage.

In the following example, A grabs B's arms in such way that when B twists his arms, B's center will be exposed. A can then move in right at that moment. A controls B's wrists first, A's goal is to control B's elbows.

Except that there are many other things, besides twisting, that can happen. A pull. Just holding it down while A punches with his free hand. Shoving it away to clear a path to move in for something else.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So next level too deadly to spar. The thing is people who have armor based styles like hema and the like are training in armor.

Yeah, I can't think why armor would be necessary (or even useful) against an Aikidoka.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think we've all lost track of what this thread is about.

Is it beautiful?
Are there any fancy movements or wasting of energy?
Does it make you calm?
Is it elegant and also deadly?
And last but not least, can someone please tell me once and for all if Aikido is THE BEST for self defense?

Enquiring minds want to know!!!

Yes.
Yes.
Sometimes.
Depends who you ask.
Of course. Doesn't the title say that?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Having the ability to initiate does kind of help to be honest.

I mean you probably don't want to stand there while the other guy puts a headlock on you or something.

Depends how much you like him and his armpit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Where as for me this is where the concept of "you messed up a long time ago" comes to play. A move is not just done. There are a whole bunch of steps that lead to that move.

Agreed. And they aren't likely to happen with someone standing centered and relaxed, a step away, holding your hand. I suppose it could happen, but I'm having a hard time picturing where that particular scenario occurs. Unless the assault is a wedding.

 

[drop bear]

Agreed. And they aren't likely to happen with someone standing centered and relaxed, a step away, holding your hand. I suppose it could happen, but I'm having a hard time picturing where that particular scenario occurs. Unless the assault is a wedding.

Ok. One scenario would be any wrestling.

So say you use your hands to do things like defend takedowns.

If i have control of that hand you can't crossface me. I have taken a step towards submitting you. You then have to play serious catch up.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok. One scenario would be any wrestling.

But he's not. He's forward-leaning (typical for wrestling), and when he grabs, he's restraining, so not just relaxedly holding it. That's feedback, and he'll immediately (if he gets that hand) do something. He won't just be holding that hand. If he just holds it, and does nothing else, I'm not sure what his point was.

 

[drop bear]

But he's not. He's forward-leaning (typical for wrestling), and when he grabs, he's restraining, so not just relaxedly holding it. That's feedback, and he'll immediately (if he gets that hand) do something. He won't just be holding that hand. If he just holds it, and does nothing else, I'm not sure what his point was.

You are not getting pulled forwards or backward. it is not that sort of forwards lean. It is an upright forwards lean. Which I know makes no sense.

But O.K. If I wanted to punch you in the mouth. I can hold your hand and there is no real way you can defend a strike. Because my hand or elbow will get to your head before your hand does.

 

[drop bear]

It is all grip and counter grip.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You are not getting pulled forwards or backward. it is not that sort of forwards lean. It is an upright forwards lean. Which I know makes no sense.

But O.K. If I wanted to punch you in the mouth. I can hold your hand and there is no real way you can defend a strike. Because my hand or elbow will get to your head before your hand does.

I'm talking about the other guy's lean.

And, yeah, there are things that can happen while you're holding the hand. Remember, I was pointing out that aiki techniques don't tend to deal with that static hold (they wait for something non-static to work with), and that's why there should be some non-aiki techniques, even in an aiki-based system.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is Chinese wrestling "grip fight". When you grab on your opponent, he will break your grip.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

they wait for something non-static to work with...

Even that "non-static" move may not be what an Aikido master is ready for. The wrist grip is only the 1st step.

 

[FighterTwister]

I think we've all lost track of what this thread is about.

Is it beautiful?
Are there any fancy movements or wasting of energy?
Does it make you calm?
Is it elegant and also deadly?
And last but not least, can someone please tell me once and for all if Aikido is THE BEST for self defense?

Enquiring minds want to know!!!

Exactly!

I love all martial arts, I love the romance between man and art form, and give all respect and honor to all and its long roots and foundations.

The throws, trapping techniques, grappling swing energy etc

In all these forms or styles but they were used in a time when there was more honor in fighting and or self defense 1 vs 1.

In past ancient times it was more of a duel than a brawl.

These days its a brawl from different angles you better know how to tuck in and know how to fight from a clinch out, or to take out one and move around very quick so on, creating angles breaking the approach sequence giving you tactical advantage and time to strategically find a way out or control the situation as best as you can buying time if you like.

So hard to explain all this on a Forum and I hope it never happens to you or someone you love its vicious nowadays watch............

If you have Aikido or Hapkido or Jiu Jitsu you better have more tools in your skill-sets than just that for self defense purposes in a real dangerous life threatening situation like..........

• Striking ranges
• Ground skills
• Movement footwork and body
  
• Speed kicks and punches
  
• Mobility of muscle groups
  
• Strength legs, torso, arms
  
• Mixed skills - tools
• Manage distance
  
• Technique - your strategy to read fights
  
• Cardio - level of fitness

Etc all are critical and very important to survival in a bad situation.

Tip - "Confined space Fighting" - I linked a video in another thread that shows this very point.

But I'm going to stop here this is the internet there is only so much you can discuss before it goes bad.

For those who did n't watch the video above on Jocko Willink please do so and there are other military guys online that will give you good feedback on what really works in a real life hostile environment like a war battlefield scenario or a suburban confrontation even a bar fight.

Love the martial arts but be honest to yourself and how you express yourself in the martial arts form you practice!

Practice the art and then practice the street is the point!

Its why I have and embrace Jeet Kune Do + Wing Chun + Aiki-Jiu-Jitsu as as my love and passion for the martial arts, what works for you might not work for another because of body type.

That's all from FighterTwister!

 

[drop bear]

I'm talking about the other guy's lean.

And, yeah, there are things that can happen while you're holding the hand. Remember, I was pointing out that aiki techniques don't tend to deal with that static hold (they wait for something non-static to work with), and that's why there should be some non-aiki techniques, even in an aiki-based system.

Not sure what you mean by the other guys lean Both guys are pretty much centered. The grip fighting is in effect static vs static. It is in part either to gain a control or create a response. It could be done from an upright position just you are more easily taken down that way so wrestlers dont do it. This is because you need your hands near your legs to defend takedowns.

You asked for a situation where someone would do a static arm grab attack.

All of wrestling is one of those curcumstances. This transfers in concept of fighting in that the arm grabs then stop weapons and punches. So you may employ this or even face it on the street.

Waiting for something to happen is silly. Something has happend. Your arm has been grabbed.

 

[drop bear]

Also, I don't know what would happen if you grab my wrist. But I'll give you three guesses what will happen if you pull my finger.

I wait for triangle chokes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Even that "non-static" move may not be what an Aikido master is ready for. The wrist grip is only the 1st step.

That kind of movement shouldn't be foreign to anyone doing stand-up grappling.