Aikido is the best self defense

[Gerry Seymour]

Then why was the instructor even teaching that then? Shows even more that he was a fraud

I don't know the circumstances, so I can't answer why. There are principles that can be worked from a static position. Some throws (even, in rare situations, some of the more "aiki" ones) can be executed from there. There should be a purpose to static drills, though. Sometimes it is done to take away the easy answer.

And I don't know what you did that made it not work, nor whether she was stymied, or simply didn't bother to change the situation to fit the technique being drilled. I have met instructors who did not yet understand some of these concepts. They mostly aren't frauds - they just don't understand.

 

[DaveB]

No, why? Is this the part where you tell me I need to do it for 20 years to understand it's true power or something? Dint mean to offend you

Fascinating. A simple question to find out how you came to your opinion and you produce a flood of assumptions.

I wonder if this is the same pattern that makes you feel so persecuted and misunderstood while on your noble quest to save lives by exposing those who don't spar.

 

[drop bear]

This is what I want to see in the UFC good use of various martial art moves through the start to finish of the fight implemented in a technical and methodical approach when they are needed.

That is what you do see.

What you don't see is a lot of ninja crap rubbish because the people who do UFC are trying not to get their heads kicked in.

 

[drop bear]

A grab is just what the hand is doing. A grabbing attack is unlikely to be someone grabbing an wrist and standing still. He's either reaching in (weight forward), pulling back (weight back), or striking (could be either, or a side shift). Standing still in a relaxed posture is a non-attack. There's rarely a need to defend from someone calmly holding your hand.

No.....

There is never just let him control my hand.

I don't care what he is or is not doing with it.

 

[drop bear]

Thats where Aikido is just different then any other MA. To work the attacker needs to do "something" thats not necessarily cooperation. In a training environment it is cooperation because it A) helps prevent injuries B) allows the student to work on the desired technique. The way Aikido works is by momentum and physics so in order to work the other person needs to provide the energy and motion so it can be redirected and exploited for lack of a better word. Its also not an A.B.C type of style for example in a more main stream style you teach new students Attacker punch and stand still Student when they punch you do A then B then C. Aikido cant work that way so in the example if I grabbed him and stood still in a main stream style the response would be A. B.C. The Aikido response requires the attacker to do more then grab and stand still. Its just different which is why people say it takes alot longer to be able to use it in real life application. Its thrown around as some kind of "excuse" but its not it just is.


I think most people are not as good as they claim to be.....

So it is like every other martial arts just with half the concepts.

In every other martial art you use pressure to create the response. If you want some sort of flash aiki based foot sweep you create the circumstances.

Aikido relies on hope?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No.....

There is never just let him control my hand.

I don't care what he is or is not doing with it.

I've never seen anything resembling control from someone standing g still, calmly holding a hand. I suppose it could happen, and it's fairly easy to defend if there's no attack happening.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So it is like every other martial arts just with half the concepts.

In every other martial art you use pressure to create the response. If you want some sort of flash aiki based foot sweep you create the circumstances.

Aikido relies on hope?

Many Aikido schools seem to assume (yeah, hope) that will happen on its own. It can, and does, but not having options if it doesn't is why I say many styles of Aikido are best as add-one to existing ability.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Thats where Aikido is just different then any other MA. To work the attacker needs to do "something" thats not necessarily cooperation.

What will happen when 2 Aikido masters fight against each other? They both starve to death. Why? Because they both expect the other to make the first move. But it never happens.

This is the main issue of the Aikido system. In general, you have to "give" before you can "take". Aikido expects to take without giving which is not realistic in the real world.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In every other martial art you use pressure to create the response. If you want some sort of flash aiki based foot sweep you create the circumstances.

Aikido relies on hope?

To set up a foot sweep, you twist your opponent in counter-clock wise direction. When he resists, you borrow his resistance force, and use foot sweep to take him down by twisting him the clockwise direction. This is just wrestling 101.

Old saying said, "Opportunity is given to those who is prepared." But I strongly believe that "Opportunity is given to those who can create it (and also is prepared)."

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I've never seen anything resembling control from someone standing g still, calmly holding a hand. I suppose it could happen, and it's fairly easy to defend if there's no attack happening.

When I control your wrist, I'm 1 step ahead of you. You have to break away my grip before you can use that hand to do something. When you try to break my grip, I attack you.

To assume that you can also counter when your opponent grabs you is not realistic.

Here is an example.

 

[drop bear]

Many Aikido schools seem to assume (yeah, hope) that will happen on its own. It can, and does, but not having options if it doesn't is why I say many styles of Aikido are best as add-one to existing ability.

Yeah. It was the concept I was ragging on there. Not especially all of Aikido.

Having said that. Nothing stopping anybody adding pressure. That is mostly just a case of going for one move and then going for another when they defend it.

 

[drop bear]

I've never seen anything resembling control from someone standing g still, calmly holding a hand. I suppose it could happen, and it's fairly easy to defend if there's no attack happening.

It is a sneaky wrestling trick. It will end you on your butt.

It is like saying it is OK not to defend grips provided they are not attacking you.

 

[Martial D]

Fascinating. A simple question to find out how you came to your opinion and you produce a flood of assumptions.

I wonder if this is the same pattern that makes you feel so persecuted and misunderstood while on your noble quest to save lives by exposing those who don't spar.

I don't feel persecuted nor misunderstood. What assumptions do you think I have made? A flood of them no less?

Looks like you are the one making assumptions dude.

 

[FighterTwister]

What people don't really understand about these types of martial arts is that they are primarily sword fighting styles.

The technical precision of movement needed takes years of refinement, because you don't want a sword slicing you up LoL

Each concept (Locks, Traps, Throws and Swings) develops a flow pattern in a sword fight and various defensive maneuvers that are to counter a sword strike or hand to hand attacks.

I found these videos to illustrate.................

Its hard to find videos that illustrate the point but I hope those suffice for the purpose of a good Forum discussion.

So allot of these martial art styles are really beautiful to watch and to do from this point of view other than that you're not really going to get any realistic street defense or aggressive tactic that works with other styles.

Its not designed that way, I'm sure some will disagree of course but I have spoken with Grand masters in this field and thats what most will tell you.

Its a refined style of martial arts to a specialized weapon the mighty sword...............

When I did Aiki Jiu- Jitsu back in my high school years mainly because a guy I knew kept nagging me to come I loved the throws and locks and the sword flow techniques.

Other than that I wanted something more street defensive that would get me in do the job get me out so to speak.

I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I did learn allot putting them into my chest of skills that I can use when there is an opportunity presented, that would make better sense in the opinion is this the best martial art for defensive purposes.

But all opinions are welcome of course

 

[ballen0351]

So it is like every other martial arts just with half the concepts.

In every other martial art you use pressure to create the response. If you want some sort of flash aiki based foot sweep you create the circumstances.

No

 

[ballen0351]

What will happen when 2 Aikido masters fight against each other? They both starve to death. Why? Because they both expect the other to make the first move. But it never happens.
.

No there are offensive techniques in Aikido as well. My post was in response to the original scenario of "I grabbed him and stood still and it didnt work so Aikido doesnt work" If you grabbed him and then stood there then the technique the tearcher was showing wouldnt work. Are there other techniques that may work sure but If the purpose of that particular period of instruction is on a specific technique in a class setting your not going to do a different technique.

 

[DaveB]

What people don't really understand about these types of martial arts is that they are primarily sword fighting styles.

The technical precision of movement needed takes years of refinement, because you don't want a sword slicing you up LoL

Each concept (Locks, Traps, Throws and Swings) develops a flow pattern in a sword fight and various defensive maneuvers that are to counter a sword strike or hand to hand attacks.

I found these videos to illustrate.................

Its hard to find videos that illustrate the point but I hope those suffice for the purpose of a good Forum discussion.

So allot of these martial art styles are really beautiful to watch and to do from this point of view other than that you're not really going to get any realistic street defense or aggressive tactic that works with other styles.

Its not designed that way, I'm sure some will disagree of course but I have spoken with Grand masters in this field and thats what most will tell you.

Its a refined style of martial arts to a specialized weapon the mighty sword...............

When I did Aiki Jiu- Jitsu back in my high school years mainly because a guy I knew kept nagging me to come I loved the throws and locks and the sword flow techniques.

Other than that I wanted something more street defensive that would get me in do the job get me out so to speak.

I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I did learn allot putting them into my chest of skills that I can use when there is an opportunity presented, that would make better sense in the opinion is this the best martial art for defensive purposes.

But all opinions are welcome of course

This was my understanding as well. If you want to spar with an aikidoka you need armour or a shield as well as your boxing gloves.

I know it's met with laughter and derision but this is the kind of thing meant by the term battlefield art. Yes Aikido is a modern style but it was constructed on the back of and with the objectives of a mediaeval fighting art.

Should it be updated? I'm sure those that think so have and those that don't have not.

 

[oftheherd1]

What will happen when 2 Aikido masters fight against each other? They both starve to death. Why? Because they both expect the other to make the first move. But it never happens.

This is the main issue of the Aikido system. In general, you have to "give" before you can "take". Aikido expects to take without giving which is not realistic in the real world.

I can't comment on Aikido since I have never studied it. In the Hapkido I studied, we were very defense oriented, tending to react to attacks. But we did learn offenses, generally using a defensive move we had already learned, but using it to attack.

I don't understand your last statement. If we are, as we usually say, learning MA to protect ourselves from attack, how is it so wrong to wait for an attack rather that initiate an attack and thus become an aggresser? Not to mention that when an opponent finds so many of his attacks being used against him, he may decide it isn't worth it.

 

[oftheherd1]

When I control your wrist, I'm 1 step ahead of you. You have to break away my grip before you can use that hand to do something. When you try to break my grip, I attack you.

To assume that you can also counter when your opponent grabs you is not realistic.

Here is an example.

Not trying to be a picky confrontational person, but you surely know there are martial arts which base much of their success specifically on countering attacks, including grabs? And in doing so generally, as part of the counter, prevent the opponent from another attack?

 

[FighterTwister]

This was my understanding as well. If you want to spar with an aikidoka you need armour or a shield as well as your boxing gloves.

I know it's met with laughter and derision but this is the kind of thing meant by the term battlefield art. Yes Aikido is a modern style but it was constructed on the back of and with the objectives of a mediaeval fighting art.

Should it be updated? I'm sure those that think so have and those that don't have not.

Well back in the 1990's when I was doing it, I never wore any of that when I did it for approx 4 years it was just mainly passing and learning the stages, concepts and principles and also using wooden swords, knives and pole techniques.

I lost interest after a while because yes it is only really an art form that was used in medieval times as a swordsman. (Battlefield Arts)

Although to defend it, I say so people don't get me wrong some applications can be used in real life but it all depends on the situation also to really become masterful you have to study it allot and do it for more than 10 years at high rank and training with others in those ranks.

Thats not what I wanted though being young etc I only took from it what I needed as tools.

The Update part of your comment is now more the BBJ/Judo/Wrestling arts now used in UFC, but I get what you mean.

In my opinion its also a fine art nowadays, what I mean by that its usually an art form amongst people in corporate world because its expensive to maintain as an art form I have found in my experience here in Australia.

Also a passion for swords as well that are worth thousands and millions depending on linage etc.