Adding more disciplines under my belt

[Flying Crane]

My foundation is in a cma, and I have taken a lot from it. In trapping range, my first instinct is to make contact and redirect energy to get strikes through and not get hit. This is why I laugh when people say Wing Chun doesn't work. And I'm not even that great at chi sau, not compared to real WC guys..I just know when and when not to use it.

Like, I'd never use wc to bridge, at least not hand techniques(unless I'm countering something..but in that case the other guy has already bridged.). I'll bridge with boxing strikes and low kicks, lots of head movement. The second those punches turn to grabs, it's wc style. Trap the hands and strike to the head. If those grabs turn to wrestling, then I start thinking throw or submission, where my(admittedly limited) BJJ comes in handy.

Your milage may vary, but this is how it works for me.

If that works for you, great. I stand by my comments to the OP.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You can get very good at one thing or suck at a lot of them. Your call.

So someone starts training at 40 and continues training to 60, he is probably very good at his style. If he started another style at 20 until 40, he was probably very good at 40 at that style. By the time 60 comes around, he's probably less good at that style since he's been focusing on the new style.
If he starts training at 20 in both styles (assuming he is now training each half as much, rather than twice the amount of training), by the time he reaches 60 he'll probably be very good at 2 styles.

 

[Martial D]

So someone starts training at 40 and continues training to 60, he is probably very good at his style. If he started another style at 20 until 40, he was probably very good at 40 at that style. By the time 60 comes around, he's probably less good at that style since he's been focusing on the new style.
If he starts training at 20 in both styles (assuming he is now training each half as much, rather than twice the amount of training), by the time he reaches 60 he'll probably be very good at 2 styles.

I guess this is a matter of end goal.

If the goal is to be better at styles you are absolutely correct, focussing on one alone makes the most sense.

But if the goal is to be better at combat?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I guess this is a matter of end goal.

If the goal is to be better at styles you are absolutely correct, focussing on one alone makes the most sense.

But if the goal is to be better at combat?

I wasn't arguing for or against more styles. Just pointing out that practicing two styles does not mean you suck at both of them. Or even three.

 

[drop bear]

I guess this is a matter of end goal.

If the goal is to be better at styles you are absolutely correct, focussing on one alone makes the most sense.

But if the goal is to be better at combat?

I don't even think that is the case. You won't really learn about your style properly unless you see how it fits in with other concepts.

You stop seeing the Forrest for the trees.

Tkd/boxing is a great example. You may get away with having substandard hands in TKD. If you can kick or avoid being caught in that range.

You can't have substandard hands in boxing because there is no escape.

So you could dedicate to TKD but not really gain the skills or exposure that would have made you better at TKD if you had gone outside the system.

 

[Jenna]

Hi I'm 18 years old (turning 19), and I am half way to getting my second degree black belt in WTF Taekwondo in Canada. After I get my second degree next March I would like to try gaining another discipline. In my town there is a boxing gym, jujitsu club, and a few karate clubs. In the town I'm going to be going to university for 2 months there are also muay thai gyms along with the others. I would love to try all of them but I also have to work full time (and go to school in the other city for 2 months). I was wondering what would be recommended for me.

Hi there and welcome along I was wondering what was your own reason you like to try gaining another discipline? You have mastered your WTF Taekwondo and you are looking to expand your repertoire maybe or..?? Wishes to you xo

 

[wingchun100]

My foundation is in a cma, and I have taken a lot from it. In trapping range, my first instinct is to make contact and redirect energy to get strikes through and not get hit. This is why I laugh when people say Wing Chun doesn't work. And I'm not even that great at chi sau, not compared to real WC guys..I just know when and when not to use it.

Like, I'd never use wc to bridge, at least not hand techniques(unless I'm countering something..but in that case the other guy has already bridged.). I'll bridge with boxing strikes and low kicks, lots of head movement. The second those punches turn to grabs, it's wc style. Trap the hands and strike to the head. If those grabs turn to wrestling, then I start thinking throw or submission, where my(admittedly limited) BJJ comes in handy.

Your milage may vary, but this is how it works for me.

Your experience proves Flying Crane's point though, because as he said you cannot mix styles where there are conflicting concepts. Wing Chun and BJJ mix well because they are both close-range and rely on sensitivity. If my partner leans to the left, then I use my BJJ skills to help throw him that way. I don't fight strength against strength, which is the exact skill set you are training in Chi Sao.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If you're a 1st Dan, hoping for 2nd, and do not know who issued your rank, you might want to focus more on that, than on new arts.
Hint: There is no such thing as WTF Taekwondo.

 

[Martial D]

Your experience proves Flying Crane's point though, because as he said you cannot mix styles where there are conflicting concepts. Wing Chun and BJJ mix well because they are both close-range and rely on sensitivity. If my partner leans to the left, then I use my BJJ skills to help throw him that way. I don't fight strength against strength, which is the exact skill set you are training in Chi Sao.

Think of say, Wing Chun. How we move, how we stay relaxed, the philosophy and method of attack and defence. The structure. Now compare that to the hard movements of karate, the totally different way of moving and standing.

These are physically, two different activities. They share a similar goal but approach it in a different way. The same goes for wrestling, judo, BJJ, etc. Sure there is some overlap, but they are different things.

Now, to contrast, let's consider running vs riding a bicycle. Similar goals, different approach. Learning to ride a bike doesn't make you a worse runner. Same principle.

For me it's not so much a matter of blending everything together so much as knowing when to shift gears.

 

[wingchun100]

Think of say, Wing Chun. How we move, how we stay relaxed, the philosophy and method of attack and defence. The structure. Now compare that to the hard movements of karate, the totally different way of moving and standing.

These are physically, two different activities. They share a similar goal but approach it in a different way. The same goes for wrestling, judo, BJJ, etc. Sure there is some overlap, but they are different things.

Now, to contrast, let's consider running vs riding a bicycle. Similar goals, different approach. Learning to ride a bike doesn't make you a worse runner. Same principle.

For me it's not so much a matter of blending everything together so much as knowing when to shift gears.

Yes, but it is easier to switch gears when approaches are similar.

 

[Martial D]

Yes, but it is easier to switch gears when approaches are similar.

Oh I dunno. It's not so hard to stop running and pick up the bike.

Or stop digging slipping and bobbing when my feet are close enough to you and our arms have made contact and go soft, and proceed to square to you and trap you and get to your flank.

Where you might run into problems here is philosophically. No matter what styles or moves you are naturally doing, you should always have a unified intent..whether that be survive, get away, win, or utterly destroy.

 

[DanT]

Just if you do start a second style, don't let it influence your first style in a negative way. What I mean is this. You spent years learning a taekwondo punch. Don't start doing boxing in your tkd class. Do boxing in your boxing class.

 

[Langenschwert]

There's no one correct answer. The OP needs to define his goal. Is it just a fun excursion, or is he planning to add to his skill set in a major way? My advice mirrors many of the others here, and I would add that you should go in without any expectations. Try a bunch of different ones just to see what they're about. You might find something that really resonates with you, and then again you might not. You've got your TKD reasonably baked, so you can find dessert now if you like, or have seconds of the main course.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

So someone starts training at 40 and continues training to 60, he is probably very good at his style. If he started another style at 20 until 40, he was probably very good at 40 at that style. By the time 60 comes around, he's probably less good at that style since he's been focusing on the new style.
If he starts training at 20 in both styles (assuming he is now training each half as much, rather than twice the amount of training), by the time he reaches 60 he'll probably be very good at 2 styles.

For some value of 'very good'. In my opinion, this is not the case. Perhaps proficient at a surface level.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

You could be really good at a couple of styles if you have the time. Most people don't that's the problem.

For some value of 'really good'. I don't think there is time in one lifetime to truly master any given style.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

For some value of 'very good'. In my opinion, this is not the case. Perhaps proficient at a surface level.

How many years would you have to spend on it to be what you would consider very good?
If you double that number then why would you not reach very good practicing a second style?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

For some value of 'very good'. In my opinion, this is not the case. Perhaps proficient at a surface level.

Also, I like to play basketball a couple times a week. You would be very hard pressed to suggest that doing that is hurting my martial arts at all, especially since I do it on my lunch break so it doesn't get in the way.

If I went to a judo club, and did it casually during the time I now play basketball, just to get more used to grapplers, how would that hurt my understanding of kempo? I would definitely not be "very good" at grappling (It would take me forever at that schedule to even become somewhat proficient), but I don't see how it would impact my kempo since it would not be taking time away from training kempo, and it's at a time I'm generally not thinking about kempo in general.

The only way your claim that you can only be very good if you only practice one art makes sense to me is if you also believe having any hobbies outside of martial arts will prevent you from becoming very good at them.

 

[Flying Crane]

Also, I like to play basketball a couple times a week. You would be very hard pressed to suggest that doing that is hurting my martial arts at all, especially since I do it on my lunch break so it doesn't get in the way.

If I went to a judo club, and did it casually during the time I now play basketball, just to get more used to grapplers, how would that hurt my understanding of kempo? I would definitely not be "very good" at grappling (It would take me forever at that schedule to even become somewhat proficient), but I don't see how it would impact my kempo since it would not be taking time away from training kempo, and it's at a time I'm generally not thinking about kempo in general.

The only way your claim that you can only be very good if you only practice one art makes sense to me is if you also believe having any hobbies outside of martial arts will prevent you from becoming very good at them.

You are correct in that one can very well do a variety of physical and mental activities very well. Nobody would argue against that.

However there are pitfalls in doing so with several martial arts, and I will attempt to describe what I mean and when these pitfalls rear their heads, as they are not absolute and are not necessarily a problem in every case. This is why my own advice to the OP was intended to make him aware of these possibilities in advance, and not as an attempt to dictate to him what he is allowed to do.

Different systems use certain biomechanics as well as physical practices designed to use those biomechanics, in developing their techniques. This is a process, it takes time and repetition and effort, and consistency.

Different systems can use the biomechanics differently, and they can bring different methodologies into play, when developing their techniques. They can also use similar biomechanics, but use different methodologies and physical practices to develop their techniques including for the same technique used by other systems.

Take the seemingly simple punch, for example. If you look at how the punch is trained by a boxer, a shotokan guy, a wing chun guy, and a white crane guy, you will see that their methods go about it in different ways. If someone wanted to train all of these systems simultaneously, well fine. But there are problems.

While training a punch, a technique shared by all of these systems, you would be doing so in four different ways. That is a waste of time and energy. Each of the four methods would develop your punch half as well in four times the time and effort. If you focus on one method and develop your punch in a consistent manner, your punch will be twice as good in a quarter the time. You have no need to develop the same technique using four different methodologies. In the end, you need a good punch. One consistent method of developing that punch will serve you best.

In my own experience of training multiple systems at the same time, I could tell that the time I spent practicing punches according to the methods of one system, was disruptive to my development in the other system, and vice-verse.

So that is the kind of issue that can arise. Gaining ground in one system can cause you to lose ground in another. Yes, this absolutely can happen.

Some techniques are designed to work with a specific kind of foundation. If you try to work those techniques from an incompatible foundation, they don't work well, sometimes they don't work at all. This can happen if you are trying to mix systems that are fundamentally incompatible.

There are other cases where these conflicts do not happen. But being aware of these issues is important for someone who might consider training in a second or third or fourth system.

Some things do not mix well. Everyone wants to add to what they do. People forget to consider that maybe some things should not be added. Some things you are better off without.

 

[drop bear]

Also, I like to play basketball a couple times a week. You would be very hard pressed to suggest that doing that is hurting my martial arts at all, especially since I do it on my lunch break so it doesn't get in the way.

If I went to a judo club, and did it casually during the time I now play basketball, just to get more used to grapplers, how would that hurt my understanding of kempo? I would definitely not be "very good" at grappling (It would take me forever at that schedule to even become somewhat proficient), but I don't see how it would impact my kempo since it would not be taking time away from training kempo, and it's at a time I'm generally not thinking about kempo in general.

The only way your claim that you can only be very good if you only practice one art makes sense to me is if you also believe having any hobbies outside of martial arts will prevent you from becoming very good at them.

Martial arts is considered different to any other discipline. For no good reason other than they want to.

So while you could master 10 lanuages. play 5 instuments in 3 different styles. And dance the tango, the foxtrot and the waltz all in one day.

TKD. is really hard to get right.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You are correct in that one can very well do a variety of physical and mental activities very well. Nobody would argue against that.

However there are pitfalls in doing so with several martial arts, and I will attempt to describe what I mean and when these pitfalls rear their heads, as they are not absolute and are not necessarily a problem in every case. This is why my own advice to the OP was intended to make him aware of these possibilities in advance, and not as an attempt to dictate to him what he is allowed to do.

Different systems use certain biomechanics as well as physical practices designed to use those biomechanics, in developing their techniques. This is a process, it takes time and repetition and effort, and consistency.

Different systems can use the biomechanics differently, and they can bring different methodologies into play, when developing their techniques. They can also use similar biomechanics, but use different methodologies and physical practices to develop their techniques including for the same technique used by other systems.

Take the seemingly simple punch, for example. If you look at how the punch is trained by a boxer, a shotokan guy, a wing chun guy, and a white crane guy, you will see that their methods go about it in different ways. If someone wanted to train all of these systems simultaneously, well fine. But there are problems.

While training a punch, a technique shared by all of these systems, you would be doing so in four different ways. That is a waste of time and energy. Each of the four methods would develop your punch half as well in four times the time and effort. If you focus on one method and develop your punch in a consistent manner, your punch will be twice as good in a quarter the time. You have no need to develop the same technique using four different methodologies. In the end, you need a good punch. One consistent method of developing that punch will serve you best.

In my own experience of training multiple systems at the same time, I could tell that the time I spent practicing punches according to the methods of one system, was disruptive to my development in the other system, and vice-verse.

So that is the kind of issue that can arise. Gaining ground in one system can cause you to lose ground in another. Yes, this absolutely can happen.

Some techniques are designed to work with a specific kind of foundation. If you try to work those techniques from an incompatible foundation, they don't work well, sometimes they don't work at all. This can happen if you are trying to mix systems that are fundamentally incompatible.

There are other cases where these conflicts do not happen. But being aware of these issues is important for someone who might consider training in a second or third or fourth system.

Some things do not mix well. Everyone wants to add to what they do. People forget to consider that maybe some things should not be added. Some things you are better off without.

I actually agree with all of this. I stopped Wing Chun because it was messing with both my fencing and my kempo. However, I would guess that most arts are compatible to TKD in some way, and while adding a second art could mess it up (aka kempo with wing chun), in general just two arts should not harm the first all that much. And if it is, I would assume that by the time you get 2nd degree black belt in your art you would be capable of realizing that happens and stop it. If not, you are simply getting more experience.