A Totally New Martial Art...?

[MartialIntent]

I'd be interested in any opinions

At what point do you see a style as merely an instructors interpretation of his or her art, at what point does it become an offshoot / mutation / separate categorization within the art and at what point does a style become a reinterpretation creating a totally new martial art?

I'm asking because I've observed the rise and rise of "fighting systems" that appear to be little more than agglomerations of bits of this and pieces of that. I'm wondering are these "systems" created merely to satisfy the ego of the instructor? Or can they genuinely be classed as new martial arts?

For me it's the former - but maybe believing in the merits of the traditional martial practices makes me a martial arts snob??

Respects!

 

[Drac]

I'm asking because I've observed the rise and rise of "fighting systems"

Amen..It seems that every month there is a new one..

I'm wondering are these "systems" created merely to satisfy the ego of the instructor

That's what I believe..It will be interesting to read the responses..

 

[terryl965]

Well I believe the way you believe, every Tom, Dick and Harry has there own(and I use that term losely)system which is just some offshoot of there primary system.
Terry

 

[Martial Tucker]

If I take several of my favorite dishes from a handful of restaurants in my area, change an ingredient or two, and put them all on a menu in my own restaurant, have I really created something new? No......just another "food court".

 

[DeLamar.J]

I'd be interested in any opinions

At what point do you see a style as merely an instructors interpretation of his or her art, at what point does it become an offshoot / mutation / separate categorization within the art and at what point does a style become a reinterpretation creating a totally new martial art?

I'm asking because I've observed the rise and rise of "fighting systems" that appear to be little more than agglomerations of bits of this and pieces of that. I'm wondering are these "systems" created merely to satisfy the ego of the instructor? Or can they genuinely be classed as new martial arts?

For me it's the former - but maybe believing in the merits of the traditional martial practices makes me a martial arts snob??

Respects!

People create new styles everyday. And because of this, creating a new style has become a joke. I would just call it my personal training routine, not STYLE.

 

[mrhnau]

Here is an interesting thought then... trim away all the "repeat" martial arts. How many would you really have left?

There are only so many ways the body can move, locks can be performed, ways you can punch, ways you can kick and ways you can throw... How many totally unique styles can there really be?

 

[TheBattousai]

Kinda of a hard question to ask without asking the head of the school, one guy who is just an instructor within the school, and other guy who wants/thinks he should branch off. Mainly nowadays, yeah starting your art is on the ego side. But there are times where the instructor says "Hey, I think you have a much different philosophy and teaching method than mine, you should start your own art." That is somewhat how alot of older systems got started, the instructor would see a student and see that special something and tell them to go do there own thing. But that didn't always happen and they would just teach slight differences than the instructor and be just the same, with minimal difference in training and philosophy. The problem lately in modern times is mainly ego; "I have been training with this guy for 10+ years, and I think he sucks, and I can do this better than him," which is what seems to be the case for most lately, but maybe one out of.......say, 1000 may be legit. But you can't really say without the background info of the individuals involved (Head of the school, one instructor from the head master, and one guy who split off) just to compare and ask what is the going on. Thats my opinion on the matter.......short explaination version anyway.

 

[phlaw]

The way I look at it, there are only so many ways you can Kick & Punch.

 

[Jesse]

Ya tell me about it....

I was in a magazine shop the other day looking at some martial arts mags and I came across a style that delt with biting the attacker. haha it was so weird. There was step by step moves of how to turn your head and pull a Mike Tyson on a guy, by biting the ear.

WHAT IS THAT????

I don't know about you but I'm not biting into someone I don't know, well I don't want to bite anyone anyways. Thats just alittle too "He bite me, Mrs.Peterson....."

 

[ppko]

Ya tell me about it....

I was in a magazine shop the other day looking at some martial arts mags and I came across a style that delt with biting the attacker. haha it was so weird. There was step by step moves of how to turn your head and pull a Mike Tyson on a guy, by biting the ear.

WHAT IS THAT????

I don't know about you but I'm not biting into someone I don't know, well I don't want to bite anyone anyways. Thats just alittle too "He bite me, Mrs.Peterson....."

I would be willing to bite if it was my only way to survive, the human jaw produces about 600 lb of pressure per square inch, now do I need someone to show me how to bite no, and I sure as hell don't want them using me as a uke

 

[Jesse]

Nevermind the fact that there are alot of people out there with some pretty funky dieseases...

Ya no thanks their are other methods of getting the guy off.

 

[ppko]

Nevermind the fact that there are alot of people out there with some pretty funky dieseases...

Ya no thanks their are other methods of getting the guy off.

I agree with you but my point is if that is my only way of survival I will do it

 

[Jesse]

Ya very true, you gotta do what you gotta do. Its either you or him/her

 

[MartialIntent]

Thanks guys for the input...:asian:

I guess we're mostly singing from the same hymn-sheet as it were. Personally I feel in many ways it's a dilution of our arts that we hold dear to have them shoved in some half-assed random mix that as Martial Tucker says is more like a food court than a gourmet meal.

But if that's the case, I'm wondering do any possibilities still remain to create a totally new martial art? Or have all avenues already been explored? As a couple of you have alluded to, human physiology seems to be limiting us to the arts that exist already.

How do our arts evolve? Or will they be practised in 20 years exactly how we practise them today [and for the past 20 years]?

Respects!

 

[Andrew Green]

There are no "new" martial arts, just different ways of arranging the same stuff, and using different pieces of a larger puzzle.

Beyond that anyone can call what they do whatever they want.

Think about it in other businesses, not all corner stores are called 7 eleven, yet they all got basically the same stuff. Marketing and branding in martial arts is the same as it is in every other business. Some people like to call their business by a well known name and follow the standards of that name, others prefer to give it their own name and make thier own rules.

"Standard" ones are all basically the same. You know what to expect,.

Non-branded ones are not as predictable. A lot are crap, but a select few are great.

 

[TheBattousai]

But if that's the case, I'm wondering do any possibilities still remain to create a totally new martial art? Or have all avenues already been explored? As a couple of you have alluded to, human physiology seems to be limiting us to the arts that exist already.

How do our arts evolve? Or will they be practised in 20 years exactly how we practise them today [and for the past 20 years]?

Respects!

No, the arts will change some as people change, its only natural. They won't change too much I think unless there is a change of instructors (or thought process between the former and successer) or people just stop training (I hope not!).

 

[Flying Crane]

Here is an interesting thought then... trim away all the "repeat" martial arts. How many would you really have left?

There are only so many ways the body can move, locks can be performed, ways you can punch, ways you can kick and ways you can throw... How many totally unique styles can there really be?

This is an interesting thought. When we look at many of the different Japanese and Okinawan systems, they all practice many of the same Kata. This is the root of their system. So how are these systems different? Same curriculum, but a "different" art?

 

[MJS]

There are no "new" martial arts, just different ways of arranging the same stuff, and using different pieces of a larger puzzle.

Amen!! This pretty much sums it up!!

Mike

 

[MartialIntent]

This is an interesting thought. When we look at many of the different Japanese and Okinawan systems, they all practice many of the same Kata. This is the root of their system. So how are these systems different? Same curriculum, but a "different" art?

I agree, this is a valid point. So why are these different arts adn why have we accepted them as such? Is it only because the originators [or originating families] hailed from one end of Okinawa or the other? And in which case, how is that different from me adding a few variations to eg. the Goju Ryu portfolio of kicks and claiming it's a totally new system? [devil's advocate]

 

[Flying Crane]

I agree, this is a valid point. So why are these different arts adn why have we accepted them as such? Is it only because the originators [or originating families] hailed from one end of Okinawa or the other? And in which case, how is that different from me adding a few variations to eg. the Goju Ryu portfolio of kicks and claiming it's a totally new system? [devil's advocate]

'tis true, and while I cannot cite examples at the moment, I believe many of these founders often studied under the same instuctors to begin with...