A round without techniques

[skribs]

Had a very interesting roll the other day with one of the brown belts at my gym. It was a round with basically no techniques. We start, he pulls guard. From there, it's a grip-fighting chess match in open guard. I'm fighting to get my knees past his, he's fighting to get an underhook. That's it. From the outside looking in, it probably would've been a boring round to watch. There was virtually no movement, virtually no technique. But to me, it was a chess match. A game of inches. Can I get my knees past his, so my knees are more engaged in the fight? Can I establish dominant grips to keep him from setting a triangle choke or taking my back?

In the end, I passed his guard, not through any specific guard pass, but because I'd won the game of inches and I had enough pressure on his legs I simply had to take the position that I had rightfully earned. Although I left my arm open so he immediately caught me in a kimura and submitted me from bottom side control.

 

[Cynik75]

This is always a problem for the referee at competitions: are the players passive? On the one hand, nothing is happening, on the other, there is a fierce struggle to move the elbow two centimeters.

 

[Buka]

I like drills like this. Plus, they’re kind of fun and break things up.

We used to do striking drills with this method, too. They helped polish the small details.

 

[drop bear]

 

[skribs]

To be clear: this wasn't a drill or a game. This was a normal roll that turned into this.

 

[Simfers]

It's always sorta weird when those happen. On the one hand, I'm happy I hand fought correctly for an extended time, on the other, it feels like nothing really happened, y'know? Almost like a wasted round somehow.

 

[HighKick]

Had a very interesting roll the other day with one of the brown belts at my gym. It was a round with basically no techniques. We start, he pulls guard. From there, it's a grip-fighting chess match in open guard. I'm fighting to get my knees past his, he's fighting to get an underhook. That's it. From the outside looking in, it probably would've been a boring round to watch. There was virtually no movement, virtually no technique. But to me, it was a chess match. A game of inches. Can I get my knees past his, so my knees are more engaged in the fight? Can I establish dominant grips to keep him from setting a triangle choke or taking my back?

In the end, I passed his guard, not through any specific guard pass, but because I'd won the game of inches and I had enough pressure on his legs I simply had to take the position that I had rightfully earned. Although I left my arm open so he immediately caught me in a kimura and submitted me from bottom side control.

Sooo, Roman Greco wrestling?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

As you progress in skill, you'll encounter more and more rounds like this.

The moves we normally think of as "techniques" in grappling - throws, sweeps, submissions, passes, etc - primarily work because you've won some sort of advantage in grips, posture, structure, space, angles, etc. Once both parties realize that, most of the work goes into fighting for those advantages. If neither are immediately able to win some sort of advantage in grips, posture, structure, space or angles, then they'll keep on with that battle rather than trying to jump directly into a full blown "technique".

Of course, all the grip fighting, small shifts in angle and posture, etc are legitimate techniques in their own right. We don't typically give them names and they're not so visible to the untrained eye. But they're just as important as the big "named" techniques.

You can have rounds like the one you describe which just naturally end up entirely (or mostly) occupied by these early micro-battles. But you can also set them up as deliberate exercises. For example, in the class I taught a couple of days ago I had my students doing wrestling takedown rounds with no takedowns allowed. The goal was to win and maintain some sort of advantageous control position (inside body lock, rear body lock, two-on-one, collar ties, wrist control, superior head position, front head lock, etc, etc) where you would have a clear path to enter for some sort of throw or takedown. If you achieved such a advantage, your partner would try to fight out of the disadvantaged position and get their own superior grips and you would try to flow into a new advantageous position.

I think there's a lot of value to sometimes doing this deliberately.

 

[skribs]

As you progress in skill, you'll encounter more and more rounds like this.

The moves we normally think of as "techniques" in grappling - throws, sweeps, submissions, passes, etc - primarily work because you've won some sort of advantage in grips, posture, structure, space, angles, etc. Once both parties realize that, most of the work goes into fighting for those advantages. If neither are immediately able to win some sort of advantage in grips, posture, structure, space or angles, then they'll keep on with that battle rather than trying to jump directly into a full blown "technique".

Of course, all the grip fighting, small shifts in angle and posture, etc are legitimate techniques in their own right. We don't typically give them names and they're not so visible to the untrained eye. But they're just as important as the big "named" techniques.

You can have rounds like the one you describe which just naturally end up entirely (or mostly) occupied by these early micro-battles. But you can also set them up as deliberate exercises. For example, in the class I taught a couple of days ago I had my students doing wrestling takedown rounds with no takedowns allowed. The goal was to win and maintain some sort of advantageous control position (inside body lock, rear body lock, two-on-one, collar ties, wrist control, superior head position, front head lock, etc, etc) where you would have a clear path to enter for some sort of throw or takedown. If you achieved such a advantage, your partner would try to fight out of the disadvantaged position and get their own superior grips and you would try to flow into a new advantageous position.

I think there's a lot of value to sometimes doing this deliberately.

Are there ways to reset this, i.e. through explosive effort?

One thing that I think is lacking from my game in general is strength, but also the willingness to explode. I know that one strategy in a dominant position is to cook the person in the bottom position, so when I get stuck I tend to simmer instead of trying to explode. I'm not confident in my ability to escape, so I reserve my energy for when I think I can (and then I just don't and end up cooked anyway).

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Are there ways to reset this, i.e. through explosive effort?

One thing that I think is lacking from my game in general is strength, but also the willingness to explode. I know that one strategy in a dominant position is to cook the person in the bottom position, so when I get stuck I tend to simmer instead of trying to explode. I'm not confident in my ability to escape, so I reserve my energy for when I think I can (and then I just don't and end up cooked anyway).

There's a time and place to explode. depending on your physical attributes. I'm not a fan of just continually trying to explode from an inferior position. Even for those who have the physical capacity, it can quickly lead to exhaustion. However, if you can pick the right moment to explode, when you can generate more energy to escape than the opponent expects, then it can be a valid option.

The more powerfully you are capable of exploding, the less of an opening you need to make the escape work. The more endurance you have, the more you can afford to expend energy attempting explosive escapes.

I don't have a lot of explosive strength or cardio, so I very rarely attempt explosive escapes. When I'm stuck on the bottom, I'm continually fighting micro-battles to improve my position by wiggling to get on my side, wedge in frames, fight grips, change angles, create space, and test my opponent's balance and movement patterns. When I escape, it's generally because I've won enough of those micro-battles to carry out a reversal or guard recovery without expending excess energy.

 

[skribs]

I don't have a lot of explosive strength or cardio, so I very rarely attempt explosive escapes. When I'm stuck on the bottom, I'm continually fighting micro-battles to improve my position by wiggling to get on my side, wedge in frames, fight grips, change angles, create space, and test my opponent's balance and movement patterns. When I escape, it's generally because I've won enough of those micro-battles to carry out a reversal or guard recovery without expending excess energy.

I'm usually able to win enough to get to a "guard" (as defined by IBJJF tournament rules) but it's difficult to get back to a real guard. Or I try a wrestle up and lose that fight.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I'm usually able to win enough to get to a "guard" (as defined by IBJJF tournament rules) but it's difficult to get back to a real guard. Or I try a wrestle up and lose that fight.

The progression from a "sort-of" guard to a strong guard that you can actually use effectively is more of the same - micro-battles for grips, angles, structure, and space. Fortunately, you usually have more ability to move than you do when stuck under a pin.

Don't forget the option to just disengage and retreat backwards across the mat. It took me until I was a purple belt to realize that if my guard is compromised and I'm being passed, that I don't have to just hold my ground and tie myself in contortionist knots trying to keep my guard from being squashed. It's okay to put up a frame, butt scoot backwards, and force the opponent to start over from scratch.

 

[drop bear]

I'm usually able to win enough to get to a "guard" (as defined by IBJJF tournament rules) but it's difficult to get back to a real guard. Or I try a wrestle up and lose that fight.

You have to sort out intellectually where you need to empty the gas tank.

So if you are in a 50/50; scramble. You need to go untill you win that scramble. (There are other obvious places)

And then make a real effort to commit to that.

Especially if you are grappling for self defence.

 

[drop bear]

The progression from a "sort-of" guard to a strong guard that you can actually use effectively is more of the same - micro-battles for grips, angles, structure, and space. Fortunately, you usually have more ability to move than you do when stuck under a pin.

Don't forget the option to just disengage and retreat backwards across the mat. It took me until I was a purple belt to realize that if my guard is compromised and I'm being passed, that I don't have to just hold my ground and tie myself in contortionist knots trying to keep my guard from being squashed. It's okay to put up a frame, butt scoot backwards, and force the opponent to start over from scratch.

Yeah. I had to go to a seminar to learn that.

Those butterfly positions where people have pushed my structure in and I can no longer push.

Move backwards and i can push again.

 

[drop bear]

There's a time and place to explode. depending on your physical attributes. I'm not a fan of just continually trying to explode from an inferior position. Even for those who have the physical capacity, it can quickly lead to exhaustion. However, if you can pick the right moment to explode, when you can generate more energy to escape than the opponent expects, then it can be a valid option.

I might try to expand on this because people get the wrong idea.

I will try to suggest two basic elements and simple examples. From what I see people do intuitively.

Someone is about to get mount. And you let them for five seconds untill you generate the will power to hit an escape.

And what happens they have a much harder mount to escape in that five seconds.

Or.

Go as soon as you know it is coming on. So they have a crappy mount.

The other one I see is an escape attempt that winds you back in the same position you started.

You are under mount. You go for a buck and roll, fail and roll back on to your back and try again.

Or

You are under mount you go for that buck and roll, fail. Then use that to shift a hip or cut an angle and then defend that position.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Someone is about to get mount. And you let them for five seconds untill you generate the will power to hit an escape.

And what happens they have a much harder mount to escape in that five seconds.

Or.

Go as soon as you know it is coming on. So they have a crappy mount.

Just to expand on this even more ...

The beauty of going for that immediate escape before your opponent solidifies the mount is that you don't necessarily have to generate as much power. It doesn't have to be truly explosive, just decisive. I have limited ability to be explosive, but I can do decisive.

The other one I see is an escape attempt that winds you back in the same position you started.

You are under mount. You go for a buck and roll, fail and roll back on to your back and try again.

Or

You are under mount you go for that buck and roll, fail. Then use that to shift a hip or cut an angle and then defend that position.

Very important. Whether you have the ability to be truly explosive or not, chaining moves so that each step improves your position rather than resetting from zero is crucial. I can usually hold down athletic guys who just randomly explode one attempt at a time. Once they learn to chain their escape moves while still having all that speed and power, it gets a lot harder.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The beauty of going for that immediate escape before your opponent solidifies the mount is that you don't necessarily have to generate as much power.

This is true for all situations. When you are

1. not 100% ready, your opponent also is not 100% ready.
2. 100% ready, your opponent also is 100% ready.

Should you react fast at 1, or should you wait for 2 then react?

 

[skribs]

This is true for all situations. When you are

1. not 100% ready, your opponent also is not 100% ready.
2. 100% ready, your opponent also is 100% ready.

Should you react fast at 1, or should you wait for 2 then react?

That's not true at all. There's plenty of times you're ready and your opponent isn't, or vice versa.

 

[Simfers]

Mr. Dismukes and Mr. bear, thank you for your detailed and enlightening answers. I'm somewhat in the same boat as Skribs, in that I don't trust my ability to explode when I'm stuck in a bad position. You lot have given me much to consider and I'm grateful.