A realization: Style is an artificial concept

[Freestyler777]

What I am trying to say is, based on MMA, one can clearly categorize the techniques that these fighters use into two generic terms: kickboxing and submission grappling. All the mystery is gone. There are genrally three types of fighters in the MMA. Kickboxers, G n P specialists(something of a cross between wrestling and boxing), and submission experts. That's all there is to fair, single, unarmed combat.

The whole concept of this style verse that style is completely hogwash. Chuck Lidell had a kempo background, but he still throws the same punches and kicks someone trained only in K-1 or any other full-contact kickboxing variant would.

And the differences between a judo player doing juji-gatame and Matt Serra doing an armbar are no difference at all. The division between judo, sambo, and BJJ is artificial.

The point of this thread is, there are many names and variants of the two basic skills: kickboxing and submission grappling. 'Style' doesnt mean anything concrete. A punch is just a punch, no matter what 'background' you have, and a kick is just a kick, so on and so forth.

So it's really man verse man not style verse style. And MMA is kind of like Bruce Lee's philosophy of cross-training. That all that JKD is: the philosophy of cross training. The last paragraph in Tao of Jeet Kune Do says "If Jeet Kune Do ever becomes this and not that, then do away with it completely- it's just a name."

 

[Xue Sheng]

Do you mean a punch is just a punch in MMA or in all Martial arts across the board? And I know you are talking about more than just a punch here, I am just using the same example.

And I gather by this you are saying there is no difference between a punch form MMA than Karate, Muay Thai, Sanda, Xingyi, Taiji, TKD or JKD.

I do agree that it all comes down to people not styles in any confrontation.

 

[Freestyler777]

What I meant was primarily in regards to MMA, that in the context of a fair, unarmed fight, there is very little difference between the 'styles'. I'm not trying to knock TMA. I'm saying, every martial artist that spars in punching and kicking is essentially kickboxing. And every martial art that deals with takedowns and submission holds in a competitive context is essentially submission wrestling (I know the technical name is submission grappling, but I prefer that moniker).

Saying this guy is a muay thai guy while that guy is a judo guy and that guy is a jiu-jitsu man is rather artificial. We have the same human body, and therefore the same universal style: kick punch takedown submit.

I don't know if this helps, but Professor Higashi, the teacher of my former judo teacher, said that Ju-jutsu means "human education". I know it can be translated literally as 'gentle art/technique' but i think higashi hit the nail on the head. Complete ju-jutsu is the 'human style' and martial arts is part of the greater education of the human being and his ability to realize his potential.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm not trying to knock TMA.

I didn’t think you were

Technically speaking there are different ways to deliver a punch or a kick or for that matter to take someone down as well. It is possible to use different muscles to do these things ad there are different ways of training these from style to style. However ultimately the result is the same so I think I see what you are getting at here.

 

[CoryKS]

The point of this thread is, there are many names and variants of the two basic skills: kickboxing and submission grappling. 'Style' doesnt mean anything concrete. A punch is just a punch, no matter what 'background' you have, and a kick is just a kick, so on and so forth.

But style factors into the fighter's decision whether to use a kick or a punch. There are fighters you know are going to throw a boatload of kicks and fighters that are going to get to the ground as fast as possible. Would you not consider this choice of strategy to be a function of the individual's style?

 

[Freestyler777]

All I mean by 'style' is in evaluating a MMA bout as judo vs jiu-jitsu or muay thai vs wrestling or boxing vs sambo, etc... Everyone I've seen (and bear with me, I'm only familiar with UFC and Pride) throws punches and kicks like a kickboxer, and everyone shoots and grapples like a submission grappler. I'm saying the nominclature of me being BJJ and you being Sambo is artificial.

Obviously there are different strategies and each individual has his own 'style' but in the openness of competition, you see that we are all using the same techniques.