a question for fighters

[Aiki Lee]

A talk in another thread got me thinking:

I never got into MMA or full contact competitions so I never really became a "fighter". In my dojo when training we go pretty hard and pretty rough, and a few of us have been knocked out (i was clocked good last thursday) or choked out or had a dislocation here and there, so don't get the impression that I'm not a fighter because I don't like to go at it hard.

The reason I couldn't get into it was that in a match the goal is to beat your opponent right? And he is trying to beat you as well. I couldn't get into it because everytime I knocked someone down or bloodied their nose or blackened their eyes I felt bad, like I was somehow being a bully. I started thinking, "ya know I don't have anything against this guy, why am I trying to hurt him?" so I stopped competing. In the dojo I can do full on randori and free response drills to aggressive attackers because I know my training partner can handle what I'm going to do to him, and so I don't have a real fear of causing him permanent damage like I did in a competition. I know that in randori my training partners or I will stop before things get too out of hand, but I've known fighters in competitions to continue to struggle against an arm bar or something and really hurt themselves. I just don't have it in me to do something like break a person's arm if they aren't trying to kill me for real, so I couldn't ever really go that hard in the ring the few times I was there.

So "fighting" isn't really for me I'm more into "protecting" if you guys catch my meaning.

...OH RIGHT! I said I had a question didn't I?

Fighters: When you go into the ring are you concerned about the possibility of causing injury to your opponent? How do you turn it on, when you know the guy you are fighting is not really a "bad guy"?


sorry this was so long. Tez3 and Sandstorm got me thinkin'.

 

[Sandstorm]

From a personal point of view, I did not go in the ring/cage/platform to 'kill' or 'maim' my opponant, I went in there to win. I would do whatever it took to win. If my opponant was stupid enough to try and resist something he couldn't get out of, that's not my concern as a fighter. My job was to win. I was not just fighting the guy oposite me. I was fighting myself. My training over the years and especially the few months before the fight itself were on the line. My heart and soul (sounds cliche, I know) were on the line. I fought because I loved the sport. There were/are rules and guidelines to stick to, and if you stick to those, you should not cause your opponant serious harm. Of course there are going to be times when someone dislocates a shoulder from twisting awkwardly out of a takedown attempt, or popping an arm from not tapping to an armbar, even bone breakages such as shins from a clash, but these things are quite rare. Most of those injuries were due IMO to people not being fully prepared for the fight itself. Jumping in too soon without the correct training or conditioning etc.
The sports are sanctioned and monitored and the referee is usually only concerned for the fighters' welbeing. In the early days of UK MMA, there were less competent refs and also the occasional promotor who couldn't give a rats' **** who fought who to some degree, as long as bums were on seats. Bottom line, you want to fight, you agree to fight, you choose if you fight or not. Nobody is forcing you in that arena. You must decide for yourself, as must your opponant.
Over the past eight years or so, those things have almsot been wiped out. Refs are fully trained now and promotors are far less selfish. The show is not just a money maker anymore. The future of the sport lies in these peoples hands, and if they make errors, they are more accountable now than ever before.
Nobody wants to see anyone hurt. Nobody likes seeing a crushing KO where the victim falls limp and quivering. These things will happen though, and as long as all the guidelines and rules are met, they will happen very very rarely and the victim will make a full and lasting recovery that will see them return to the arena as fit and strong as ever.
MMA is a beautiful sport. Yes, it's been a little diluted over the years, but that is what gives it it's credibility as a 'sport' today. It still has a little work to do to educate those who don't understand the ground game, but that won't take too long I don't think. My only concern is that it may end up too much like a real version of WWF. I want to see skill, not raw power. But that's just my POV

 

[Nolerama]

I haven't competed in MMA... yet. I would like to. However, I am going to a submission grappling tournament soon so I can see how far my game has progressed. I wouldn't see it beyond that. People fighting in MMA know the risks. But they do want to see who is better and figure that out through competition.

MMA fighters, at least the ones I've met, generally don't go into the ring with the intention to maim or severely injure their opponent, they really just want to compete and show that their skills are better than their opponent.

However, I have met a few who have a chip on their shoulder, and "need to prove something." Those are the guys I would worry about when (and they will) they lose. Instead of thinking that their strategy and skill set needs to improve, they end up mixing their personal issues with what's really there: room for improvement.

But the bottom line is that there are risks, just like one would know the risks involved with driving in rush hour traffic. You assume those risks in training, anyway. You assume you will be physically damaged in a fight. Stuff like that happens.

But it's just competition.

 

[searcher]

A few things when it comes to full-contact fighting.

1.) It is a competition. If you get hurt you went in knowing it could happen.

2.) The other guy wants to win. This means you had better do your best to stop him or he will stop you.

3.) Competitions are a test of your skill andthe other guy's as well. If you don't go hard you are shorting yourself and the other guy.

This is just a little bit of my take on the subject. The "switching it on" comes from how you train/practice. Competition should be a help for how you will react on the street. It helps you deal with things like adrenal dump, knowing what can work in a harder contact situation, how you will react, how to deal with some unknown factors, etc.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

When I was doing muay thai, I was solving a problem. My task was to hit, kick and outmaneuver the other guy in order to win the match. Similar with wrestling, boxing, full contact sparring that I've done.

Before and after the match, my opponent was a human being. Sometimes he was a team mate. As often as possible, he became (at least for the night) a drinking buddy.

But during the match, I can't say that I gave the fact that my opponent was a human being much thought at all. The rules and the ref saw to it that he wouldn't get badly hurt.

Like I said, I was just solving a problem.

 

[jarrod]

i'm the same way, i can't really turn it on unless i'm a little bit pissed. which i never am when competing.

also, my nerves really get on top of me. the couple times i've had a physical altercation i stayed calm enough, but the days leading up to a tournament or a match are brutal for me. competition itself is fun, but i really put myself through the ringer up until that point.

jf

 

[kaizasosei]

That is a really hard question. I wonder about that myself, especially since i'm suddenly confronted with really devastating training partners in grappling.

My only advice is that you will have to trust your instincts...losing a bout is better than losing on the street or in life. The sport is there to make us stronger. We have to see it as a sport. Ever noticed that when there is rough and tough training, afterwards, training partners are often really relaxed and capable of really opening up and being friendly. Hard training can be freaky but it is rewarding. But in your case i think that it is not freaky or scary for you but rather frustrating a bit realizing that it is not a real fight. If someone sees it as a real fight or is scared of you, then that is their problem. As long as they don't injure you bad physically, no harm done.
One must face the animal within and see that fear is a very dangerous thing. Not only our own fears(if you have any), but the fears and hungers of an attacker or partner can be surprising and unyeilding.

I like to stay relaxed and try not to use all my swiftness,nastyness and power...i think of it as a security blanket that i can still bust out if i feel truly threatened. I don't know about your training exactly, but i am now rather speaking about grappling training-submission style. With striking however, i would take it more seriously. I would not want to let anyone get too close and i would be forced to take them out by direct striking and breaking their spirit. Anything else would be developing bad habits. When it comes to striking sparring, it is really hard to not escalate the violence sometimes.
My philosophy now is either go easy or rather hard because anything inbetween is not enrichening nor is it particularily realistic.

I say, that you have to exercise a certain sense of humanity as well as justice. Because if someone wants to defeat you, then you just the same have the right to defeat them...
Ultimately, one has to believe in oneself. It does suck if you get hit or downed by someone that is annoying or fluking, but i like to think that one cannot be defeated unless the opponent gets the authority and strength from god, heaven or sincere training. we all have our lessons to learn. ok, maybe there are real flukes, but then you'd waste them once you regain anyhow....
sorry, i haven't been getting much sleep so i think i'm not making that much sense.



nanakorobiyaoki fall down seven times, get up eight
how about just having fun?


j

 

[tokyo_cowboy]

i know how you feel i often fell bad if i knock someone down but thats the sport we play so you just have to get used to it.

just remember you opponant is trying to do the same thing to you so use this as you motivation.

 

[geezer]

Fighters: When you go into the ring are you concerned about the possibility of causing injury to your opponent? How do you turn it on, when you know the guy you are fighting is not really a "bad guy".

I'm not a fighter, but I think you bring up an ethical and emotional question that concerns us all. I got to thinking about the same thing after a tragic incident that took place a few months back at a local casino that promotes boxing and MMA events. One of my instructors trains guys that fight at this venue, so I'm naturally interested. Anyway, the casino was hosting a charity boxing match between amateur boxers from local police and fire departments billed as "Guns and Hoses". It was supposed to be a good, fun event for a good cause. Unfortunately, a young policeman took a hard shot to the head, was seriously injured, and shortly later died as a result. He left a grieving wife and child behind. You also have to think about how his opponent felt. A tough situation all around.

On the one hand, everyone felt terrible about this. But I'm not sure what could have prevented it. All the fighters wanted to participate, they wanted to win, but nobody wanted to really injure their opponent. And as Searcher pointed out, you can't have a competition unless everyone tries their hardest. In a sense, it's not that different from any other risky sport. And not just contact sports like football (remember Darryl Stingly?). But even in sports where you aren't in direct contact with the other guy. As a kid, I got seriously busted up skiing. When you race, it's against a clock, but if you don't push the envelope, you won't have any chance of winning. So, I guess if you want to compete in anything, you've got to accept that someone has to lose, and occasionally bad stuff happens.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I understand the mind of a fighter a little bit better than I did. I appreciate the thoughtful responses.

 

[Brian King]

“Thanks for the replies everyone”

+1 and thanks for the thread. I do not have anything to add to this conversation but wanted to say it was a pleasure reading the thread. Good intelligent thoughtful responses with very little of the ‘macho’ posturing or put downs that I was expecting to read. Good to be wrong.

Thanks again
Brian King

 

[mozzandherb]

When I'm sparring I know who to turn it "on" against and who to lay back on. I also judge when sparring in class how hard my opponent is going. If he/she is going lightly then I'll go lightly, but if he/she wants to turn it up a little, so will I. In tournaments the goal is to win whether your opponent is a "good" person or "bad" person, I will turn it on during competition, because like was stated the other person is trying to win as well, so better him/her than me. I am being gender neutral because it's not only the guys that will go hard, I've sparred a few women that if you let them will knock your butt out, but in general I kick as hard or turn it up against most women. But I am not in MMA and I'm sure that MMA is much much different than the sparring that I compete in

 

[Spartan 117]

Very good thread. That's a real dilemma, and you've made think about it for a while. I've sometimes felt bad when I spar and just kicked the other fella really hard, and injured him. Or in judo when i was tryn the kimura lock and almost injured my training partner seriously. As for competition, as mozzandherb said, if he's going lightly, well, I go lightly, but if he wants it rough, ok, then that's the way it is.

But, hey, you're battosai, so don't worry so much.

 

[suicide]

i learn alot from watching mma fights i also think its a awsome sport %-}

 

[Aiki Lee]

But, hey, you're battosai, so don't worry so much.

Exactly! I'm searching for a way to keep my vow to never kill again.

 

[Slihn]

A talk in another thread got me thinking:

I never got into MMA or full contact competitions so I never really became a "fighter". In my dojo when training we go pretty hard and pretty rough, and a few of us have been knocked out (i was clocked good last thursday) or choked out or had a dislocation here and there, so don't get the impression that I'm not a fighter because I don't like to go at it hard.

The reason I couldn't get into it was that in a match the goal is to beat your opponent right? And he is trying to beat you as well. I couldn't get into it because everytime I knocked someone down or bloodied their nose or blackened their eyes I felt bad, like I was somehow being a bully. I started thinking, "ya know I don't have anything against this guy, why am I trying to hurt him?" so I stopped competing. In the dojo I can do full on randori and free response drills to aggressive attackers because I know my training partner can handle what I'm going to do to him, and so I don't have a real fear of causing him permanent damage like I did in a competition. I know that in randori my training partners or I will stop before things get too out of hand, but I've known fighters in competitions to continue to struggle against an arm bar or something and really hurt themselves. I just don't have it in me to do something like break a person's arm if they aren't trying to kill me for real, so I couldn't ever really go that hard in the ring the few times I was there.

So "fighting" isn't really for me I'm more into "protecting" if you guys catch my meaning.

...OH RIGHT! I said I had a question didn't I?

Fighters: When you go into the ring are you concerned about the possibility of causing injury to your opponent? How do you turn it on, when you know the guy you are fighting is not really a "bad guy"?


sorry this was so long. Tez3 and Sandstorm got me thinkin'.

I use to consider alot of things when fighting, but honestly I just clear my mind and let the training take over.Before I fight , I spar to God , that neither me or my oppoent will get seriously hurt, only our egos, then I try to clear my mind.

 

[shihansmurf]

I have the mindset that during a fight, both in the ring and in a real world encounter, all I am trying to do is take away my opponent's ability to fight. During a boxing match I just simply have fewer tools at my disposal to do so.
I never think of trying to injure, maim, or kill. I just try to eliminate his capacity to commit physical acts of violence.
Seems to have worked out well so far.
Mark

 

[Zero]

Good question.
WHen I started out in competitions I was nervous leading up to and before the fight but not so now. I have never been concerned about the hurt I could do to someone or the possibility of seriously or permanently injuring them, although this is, even in sports and tournaments a possibility.

As many others have said, it is about determining how good you have become and how far you need to progress in a particualr style or styles. I have generally kept things de-personalised in fights but there have been a couple of fighters in the past, one who used to be from one of my old clubs, that I really do not like on some levels. I hate to admit it but I have deliberately gone into those fights with the mindset to take their head off.

I have felt bad afterwards when on the odd time I have done something that results in the opponent getting seriously hurt, not just a knock out, but torn muscle etc that has put them out of the ring for a long time (especially when these people can be sparring partners outside of the competition). This has also happened to me though and this is the reality of full contact tournaments.