A New Journey

[Oily Dragon]

 

[Gyakuto]

I bought this after seeing Morgan with it.

 

[_Simon_]

I bought this after seeing Morgan with it.
View attachment 29228

Ahhh... I must get that...

In my Bowen therapist's waiting room are books and he had that one there (he's a high level aikidoka), and I always read that before my session. Very nice book

 

[Gyakuto]

Ahhh... I must get that...

In my Bowen therapist's waiting room are books and he had that one there (he's a high level aikidoka), and I always read that before my session. Very nice book

Oh, I’ve never read it…I just use it to look ‘windswept and interesting’ in order to get girls

One of the Iaidoka, who briefly attended our dojo, was an experienced Aikidoka and a noted clinical psychologist (or so he liked to tell us…often ). He suggested that from a psychological perspective, Ueshiba Sensei was…what assessment did he make…….’bat-****-crazy’ or words to that effect. I think ‘delusional‘ was one of the adjectives he used to describe him!

 

[Oily Dragon]

Oh, I’ve never read it…I just use it to look ‘windswept and interesting’ in order to get girls

One of the Iaidoka, who briefly attended our dojo, was an experienced Aikidoka and a noted clinical psychologist (or so he liked to tell us…often ). He suggested that from a psychological perspective, Ueshiba Sensei was…what assessment did he make…….’bat-****-crazy’ or words to that effect. I think ‘delusional‘ was one of the adjectives he used to describe him!

That's the hallmark of the highest level of Kung Fu mastery. Total madness.

 

[Gyakuto]

That's the hallmark of the highest level of Kung Fu mastery. Total madness.

Yes. I wonder if it’s because we fear questioning such people? We’re worried we’re missing something and just go along with the insanity?

 

[O'Malley]

I've never formally studied Aikido (done Judo, jujutsu, catch) but I do watch a lot of technique videos to learn new things.

Like, staff training is a big part of my personal regimen, so I'll often consume staff training vids from all sorts of arts because I know what I'm doing generally, but occasionally find something new. Always found Aikido jo training neat (I prefer staff under 6" so bo, Jo etc).

What level in Aikido do you get to basics like this?

In Iwama aikido you learn the jo from day one. In other lineages it may vary but my first Aikikai dojo did weapons once a month.

I did watch a ‘Nine Cut Boken [sic] Kata’ on the website of the dojo I’m going to attend. Swordsmanship (Iaido) is my main art and so I have to say the video was…’interesting’ in terms of cutting and body shifting. Of course, I don’t know the context of the video and I’ll have to be careful to keep my mouth tightly zipped!

FWIW aikidoka often do things differently than what would make sense in a combative engagement. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes due to ignorance. For example, the Iwama line uses weapons as a conditioning method to strengthen the body and channel hip power into the hands. As another example, I wouldn't telegraph thrusts like the gentleman in Oily Dragon's video.

I think we're on the same page.

I thought of that newer staff video, as I watched the end of that old video of Ueshiba, chopping wood over and over and over. It's interesting to compare to some of the heavier duty staff videos out there in Asian MA.

There's a time for circles, and a time for straight lines, based on my informal study of Aikido. It'd be cool to see what you think.

One of the best things I think Ueshiba did was break a bit from his contemporaries and focus on the peaceful side of jujutsu, if that makes sense. If you go back and learn about his roots, it was anything but peaceful.

I can relate, I used my foundations in similar arts to kind of learn to chill the hell out. I wish I could teach it. But sometimes, just rolling forward feels like freedom. And that's always worth learning.

I'd agree with that... if we're talking about Morihei Ueshiba's son, Kisshomaru, who's really responsible for the whole peace thing. Morihei was never really a pacifist and technically almost all of what he did was already in daito ryu - bar one throw.

When I was watching that NHK programme on Aikido, I liked the look of ‘rolling around’ and the rolling exercises they were doing! It just looked different enough to be fun and possibly helpful for the body.I think the difficulty comes when claims are made about Aikido’s ‘effectiveness’ and that’s something I’m also looking to explore. Since it’s Japanese system, I’m hoping to feel more at home with it than I have been with the various Chinese systems I’ve tried in the past.

Rolling around is super fun and makes you supple and able to take falls (which are perhaps the biggest source of injury in everyday life).

I do worry about ’polluting’ my Iaido with Aikido technique! When Aikidoka joined our Iai dojo they found it nigh impossible to keep their back foot pointing directly ahead (so the pelvic and thoracic girdles are square to allow for proper cutting) and to stop their small ‘chopping’ action with their bokuto/sword. I think it’s an unfounded worry at my stage!


Learning something new to keep the neurones challenged, address my doubts about the art and to meet new, like-minded people (I took very early retirement and now I’m lonely!)

Yeah I've had this when being exposed to koryu swordsmanship. My aikido habits were parasiting the moves. But people can learn different dances, so it should be possible to do both.

That's actually karate if I'm not mistaken!

Oh, I’ve never read it…I just use it to look ‘windswept and interesting’ in order to get girls

One of the Iaidoka, who briefly attended our dojo, was an experienced Aikidoka and a noted clinical psychologist (or so he liked to tell us…often ). He suggested that from a psychological perspective, Ueshiba Sensei was…what assessment did he make…….’bat-****-crazy’ or words to that effect. I think ‘delusional‘ was one of the adjectives he used to describe him!

I'd agree on calling him delusional - and his teaching methods were shitty - but he was also extremely talented, well-read and quite clever. He just liked to bury technical information under layers of mystic BS but it makes sense if you know what to look for.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I'd agree on calling him delusional - and his teaching methods were shitty - but he was also extremely talented, well-read and quite clever. He just liked to bury technical information under layers of mystic BS but it makes sense if you know what to look for.

It's funny, hard to tell where old staff technique comes from....Aikido, Karate, or the dreaded Bubushi (which might actually be the case, stick techniques are way older than Okinawa).

I like to refer to Ueshiba as a karate hippie. Kind of like how my hippie friends who are really smart and fun, also try to get me to wear crystals and drink weird herbs.

I consider myself an informed consumer in these matters. Thanks for that post.

 

[Gyakuto]

and drink weird herbs.

I bet there isn’t much arm twisting to encourage you

 

[Gyakuto]

I'd agree with that... if we're talking about Morihei Ueshiba's son, Kisshomaru, who's really responsible for the whole peace thing. Morihei was never really a pacifist and technically almost all of what he did was already in daito ryu - bar one throw.

Have you heard of the concept of ‘Kesa no Hitotachi no Seishin’. It can be summarised by a line from it which says, ‘Even the gravest of sinners should be shown the path of good men. If the worst occurs and they do not conform to them, without hesitation, apply kesa uchi and send them to Buddha’ Perhaps this was Osensei’s philosophy.

`One of my friends graded and was awarded godan (I think) by Kisshomaru

Rolling around is super fun and makes you supple and able to take falls (which are perhaps the biggest source of injury in everyday life).

I have to say, that is part of my attraction to it!

Yeah I've had this when being exposed to koryu swordsmanship. My aikido habits were parasiting the moves. But people can learn different dances, so it should be possible to do both.

Ingrained habit just require one to be mindful of them.

I'd agree on calling him delusional - and his teaching methods were shitty - but he was also extremely talented, well-read and quite clever. He just liked to bury technical information under layers of mystic BS but it makes sense if you know what to look for.

That burying is done by talented people, fearful of others usurping their supremacy!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I’m of the orientation that MA are generally not that effective fighting arts compared to boxing and MMA because of the degree of cooperation required between attacker and defender during practise.

"The degree of cooperation required between attacker and defender during practise" is used for training.

If you

- lie down on the ground, your training partner cannot train throwing art on you.
- run away from your opponent, your training partner cannot train striking art on you.

Some cooperation from your training partner is needed.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I bet there isn’t much arm twisting to encourage you

Depends on the source.

 

[Darren]

I’ve finally decided to try Aikido after years of turning my nose up at because of the sight of people seemingly throwing themselves around and, of course, because of Steven Seagulls

I watched an NHK Spiritual Explorers episode about it (not a very good one) and this prompted me do a search for a local dojo. After a couple of emails from the teacher asking about my motivations, health etc,he invited me along this coming Thursday. I’m looking forward to it.

I was going to try Aikido once my self, got hurt my first class doing a roll on my right side believe since my minor cerebral palsy is in my right side(can do a roll on my left side) but did a roll on my right side off the mat a landed right on my right shoulder had to do PT for like three months totally shifted my right side a little!! That hurt!!!!!

 

[Oily Dragon]

I was going to try Aikido once my self, got hurt my first class doing a roll on my right side believe since my minor cerebral palsy is in my right side(can do a roll on my left side) but did a roll on my right side off the mat a landed right on my right shoulder had to do PT for like three months totally shifted my right side a little!! That hurt!!!!!

I've done that. Jumping forward roll, landed right on the shoulder hard. Crack.

Used to be the "I'll fall on anything" type. I've wisened.

 

[Darren]

I've done that. Jumping forward roll, landed right on the shoulder hard. Crack.

Used to be the "I'll fall on anything" type. I've wisened.

I thought I was fine at first till I started to change then it was god please take me home man!!!! You taking about misery oh god!!!!!!!!!

 

[O'Malley]

It's funny, hard to tell where old staff technique comes from....Aikido, Karate, or the dreaded Bubushi (which might actually be the case, stick techniques are way older than Okinawa).

I like to refer to Ueshiba as a karate hippie. Kind of like how my hippie friends who are really smart and fun, also try to get me to wear crystals and drink weird herbs.

I consider myself an informed consumer in these matters. Thanks for that post.

I dunno whether a hippie would be involved in far-right terrorist attacks, protect and provide shelter to criminals who perpetrated the worst kind of atrocities or teach at fascist ideological centers, among other "achievements".

I do suspect that Morihei Ueshiba would have hated being associated with karate. In his words, that is "chink" ****.

Have you heard of the concept of ‘Kesa no Hitotachi no Seishin’. It can be summarised by a line from it which says, ‘Even the gravest of sinners should be shown the path of good men. If the worst occurs and they do not conform to them, without hesitation, apply kesa uchi and send them to Buddha’ Perhaps this was Osensei’s philosophy.

`One of my friends graded and was awarded godan (I think) by Kisshomaru


I have to say, that is part of my attraction to it!

Ingrained habit just require one to be mindful of them.

That burying is done by talented people, fearful of others usurping their supremacy!

Oh he probably loved being worshipped. He trained very hard because he saw it as a means to ascend to godhood. And gods have followers.

I didn't know the quote but really he was not a pacifist. He was neck-deep involved with Japanese fascism and his idea of "peace" was "the world united as a great family... under the complete control of the Japanese Empire".

 

[Gyakuto]

I dunno whether a hippie would be involved in far-right terrorist attacks, protect and provide shelter to criminals who perpetrated the worst kind of atrocities or teach at fascist ideological centers, among other "achievements".

I do suspect that Morihei Ueshiba would have hated being associated with karate. In his words, that is "chink" ****.

Oh he probably loved being worshipped. He trained very hard because he saw it as a means to ascend to godhood. And gods have followers.

I didn't know the quote but really he was not a pacifist. He was neck-deep involved with Japanese fascism and his idea of "peace" was "the world united as a great family... under the complete control of the Japanese Empire".

Fascinating! Do you have any sources for these data? It might be fun to confront the instructor in tomorrow’s class!

The older generation of Budo do tend to be ‘nationalistic’ and indeed certain arts have a ‘right-wing’ reputation in Japan. I wonder if this is similar to the ‘Artist and their Art’ thread? Can the attitudes and, indeed, actions of founders/senior members of arts be separated from the art.

 

[O'Malley]

Fascinating! Do you have any sources for these data? It might be fun to confront the instructor in tomorrow’s class!

The older generation of Budo do tend to be ‘nationalistic’ and indeed certain arts have a ‘right-wing’ reputation in Japan. I wonder if this is similar to the ‘Artist and their Art’ thread? Can the attitudes and, indeed, actions of founders/senior members of arts be separated from the art.

Look up the blog and Facebook page of "Aikido Sangenkai". Although he's too humble to put it that way, Chris Li is one of the best sources for aikido history. The history of aikido isn't well-known even by the art's own practitioners, so confronting your instructor on this may challenge his long-standing beliefs, just so you know.

I separate the art from the artist (also because a lot of what Ueshiba was doing he got from somewhere else) but when I bow before and after class, I know to whom and to what extent I'm bowing.

 

[Gyakuto]

Look up the blog and Facebook page of "Aikido Sangenkai". Although he's too humble to put it that way, Chris Li is one of the best sources for aikido history. The history of aikido isn't well-known even by the art's own practitioners, so confronting your instructor on this may challenge his long-standing beliefs, just so you know.

Much as I like upsetting establim4nt apple carts, I was only kidding!

I separate the art from the artist (also because a lot of what Ueshiba was doing he got from somewhere else) but when I bow before and after class, I know to whom and to what extent I'm bowing.

Fascinating !

 

[Oily Dragon]

I'll be the first to say I only know a little about Aikidos history. I was under the impression that Ueshiba mellowed out over time from his earlier more violent lifestyle, to a more (if not pacifist) philosophical/spiritual).

Though I do get the context of where and how he lived is nothing like America's hippies. Guess I can't use karate hippie anymore, damn I thought I was being clever.

So basically, he's Seagal's Glimmer Man. A man of war, who chose to walk a peaceful path, and that path was paved with the blood of his enemies, as he quested to find his true paradise: Russia.