A new idea

[GojuTommy]

I’m just looking for a way for the martial arts community and marketplace to self regulate

 

[Flying Crane]

Which is why I posted a link describing how it works.
It’s literally just a place people trust that hands out a piece of paper to businesses and if you break their rules they don’t give you another piece of paper the next year.

And they do not endorse any businesses. What you describe, does.

 

[Flying Crane]

I’m just looking for a way for the martial arts community and marketplace to self regulate

It’s ability to do so is very limited.

The interesting thing is, those people calling for self-regulation within the industry are making the assumption that they would be part of the regulating body. Careful that they don’t end up getting regulated right out the door themselves.

Kind of like those people who plan for end-of-civilization zombie apocalypse are assuming that they will be among the survivors. That’s a big assumption to make.

 

[GojuTommy]

And they do not endorse any businesses. What you describe, does.

They provide good standing certificates, which is all I’m really talking about.

BBB- businesses pay dues to join. If you abide by their rules they accredit your business as in good standing.

The BBB doesn’t accredit non-members and membership doesn’t guarantee accreditation.

My organization membership doesn’t guarantee accreditation, but membership guarantees access to the marketing services. And marketing does not equate to an endorsement if that’s what you’re goig to try to say next.

That’s all I’m really advocating.

 

[GojuTommy]

It’s ability to do so is very limited.

The interesting thing is, those people calling for self-regulation within the industry are making the assumption that they would be part of the regulating body. Careful that they don’t end up getting regulated right out the door themselves.

Kind of like those people who plan for end-of-civilization zombie apocalypse are assuming that they will be among the survivors. That’s a big assumption to make.

Not really a good analogy...civilization ending disaster is beyond my control.
My business and teaching practices are completely under my control.

If a regulating body turns against me I can adapt to be in line with them or launch a marketing/PR campaign to sway consumer opinion my way, if that fails I can still adapt to be in line with that regulating body’s principles.

 

[GojuTommy]

Disregard

 

[Martial D]

So I wrote 'misleading thread title' because this idea is not new. You are hardly the first young idealogue to come around with big ideas and good intentions, but like most of them I don't see any details or any sort of plan regarding just how you plan to do this, nor any specific qualifications or abilities to make you the one to do it.

It sounds like you want to make money off people's schools without actually doing the work of running one or teaching, with no real plan as to how to accomplish that.

 

[Flying Crane]

They provide good standing certificates, which is all I’m really talking about.

BBB- businesses pay dues to join. If you abide by their rules they accredit your business as in good standing.

The BBB doesn’t accredit non-members and membership doesn’t guarantee accreditation.

My organization membership doesn’t guarantee accreditation, but membership guarantees access to the marketing services. And marketing does not equate to an endorsement if that’s what you’re goig to try to say next.

That’s all I’m really advocating.

Yes but the BBB does not recommend businesses. What you described, does.

 

[Flying Crane]

Not really a good analogy...civilization ending disaster is beyond my control.
My business and teaching practices are completely under my control.

If a regulating body turns against me I can adapt to be in line with them or launch a marketing/PR campaign to sway consumer opinion my way, if that fails I can still adapt to be in line with that regulating body’s principles.

Either way, it is your plan to be on the winning team even if you need to manipulate it.

The local martial arts community could turn around and organize to discredit you. That’s what im saying. If you try to organize them, they might look at you and decide that your own standards do not clear the bar.

My point is, those who think they ought to be in control, need to tread carefully.

 

[GojuTommy]

Yes but the BBB does not recommend businesses. What you described, does.

Where did I say I would recommend businesses?

 

[GojuTommy]

Either way, it is your plan to be on the winning team even if you need to manipulate it.

The local martial arts community could turn around and organize to discredit you. That’s what im saying. If you try to organize them, they might look at you and decide that your own standards do not clear the bar.

My point is, those who think they ought to be in control, need to tread carefully.

I never said I thought I should be in control. Hence why I felt kind of pretentious about it, however there are lots people being duped. They just want to learn how to defend themselves and some dudes who may not even have training in any art are out there convincing people their BS works. I never said I thought I should be in control, but I do think it’s a good idea and no one else has stepped up to take initiative.

(Also I don’t know anyone planning for a major disaster that is looking to control anything beyond their own safety...so again poor analogy)

 

[GojuTommy]

So I wrote 'misleading thread title' because this idea is not new. You are hardly the first young idealogue to come around with big ideas and good intentions, but like most of them I don't see any details or any sort of plan regarding just how you plan to do this, nor any specific qualifications or abilities to make you the one to do it.

It sounds like you want to make money off people's schools without actually doing the work of running one or teaching, with no real plan as to how to accomplish that.

Literally posted several service I’d provide from marketing to making a possibly bigger more professional space available, to even helping instructors with their weaknesses if it’s one of my strengths.

As for qualifications if you’re in my area and interested in my services I have no problem laying out my qualifications, and experience in detail. I doubt you’re either one of those things however.

 

[Flying Crane]

Not credentialing a TKD instructor in TKD, but more like saying “this instructor has shown that they will teach their style in a way conducive to realistic self denfense and/or full contact sport sparring.

This indicates some level of recommending a business.

 

[pdg]

Ok, so here's how I see it...

you said about people getting fleeced because "they just want to learn some self defence" - that statement itself needs checking for a start.

Maybe it's different where you are (which is where your local market research comes in) but of the people I've spoken in person to about it maybe 10% are looking for self defence - and that's being generous.

You've said about the harder (full?) contact side of things - again, that's a minority interest. People have to go to work the next day, do stuff with their families, generally have a life outside MA - not a huge proportion are wanting that level of risk.

You've also said about teaching kids - imo that's totally at odds with the above two things. Kids can only defend themselves against other kids for a start so selling "effective self defence" is a fleece by itself, and they should never be doing full/heavy contact at all.

Offering a space - that's all well and good, but logistics. It's not practical for different schools to share a room, so you're going to need a compartmentalised facility. It's difficult - you can't just have one room because one school might fill that at all convenient times, but having multiple spaces introduces the burden of needing to fill them to cover costs.

Then, who decides who is allowed membership? What if club A decides club B isn't offering "real world effective" training? Club A won't want to be associated with the same facilities or marketing approach as club B, but club B is prepared to pay the subs. Do you decline club B because they won't change their method, or lose club A? If it's a subscription service, on what grounds would you decline club B anyway and is it for you or a committee to decide? If it's by committee, then how do you intend to make a living if they decide your ideals don't mesh with theirs?

As for the accreditation - that's doomed to fail. If the board consists of a TKD guy, a kyokushin guy and a krav guy, are they really going to even accredit each other let alone that systema school that's just started.


This isn't knocking you personally, but I can't see the idea working at all.

 

[Martial D]

Literally posted several service I’d provide from marketing to making a possibly bigger more professional space available, to even helping instructors with their weaknesses if it’s one of my strengths.

As for qualifications if you’re in my area and interested in my services I have no problem laying out my qualifications, and experience in detail. I doubt you’re either one of those things however.

Yes, I realize you've listed a bunch of things, but you haven't explained exactly how you plan to do any of it. I mean, good luck, but I can't imagine why anyone would contract a random unqualified stranger to 'accredit' them.

 

[Headhunter]

Not really a good analogy...civilization ending disaster is beyond my control.
My business and teaching practices are completely under my control.

If a regulating body turns against me I can adapt to be in line with them or launch a marketing/PR campaign to sway consumer opinion my way, if that fails I can still adapt to be in line with that regulating body’s principles.

Honestly in my opinion it's nonsense like this that causes problems in martial arts. I don't give a damm about regulating bodies or marketing and pr campaigns I'm just there to do martial arts and I believe if everyone just stuck to that there wouldn't be as many issues. I had someone once ask me how to deal with the political side of martial arts this was my answer "just shut up and go train"

 

[dvcochran]

Ideally it would be both options.

I have been praised for my ability with children for example and also spent 2 years before I enlisted coaching an MMA team after karate.

I’d also provide marketing and promotion of the schools, so the club house would be set up like a school in its own right with mats bags, strength training equipment etc. members can reserve the clubhouse or specific areas/ equipment if they don’t have that equipment or just need a bigger area.
The club would also set up events with all the schools invited to participate and the public invited to observe.

An area one stop shop for martial arts basically.

In my area I’ve recorded a page and a half of local schools that I think would be interested which leaves out schools that appear to only target a younger demographic (5-16) but maybe they’ll want to branch out as well.

I assume you are in a large market area. Your idea of members using your clubhouse sounds like a lot of logistic problems. I agree it is a valid concept. You will have to do a lot of work on getting your local schools to play along. Setting up a "train the trainer" program in such a broad market will be tough and it will take time and effort for schools to see you as an asset and not a threat.

 

[dvcochran]

It seems rather than drawing issue with the idea itself most here seem to have a problem with someone being confident in themselves.
Oh well created the account for some general market research, time to move on to region specific market research.

Enjoy gentlemen.

But yes as head hunter said it is intended to be a nice little money maker since no amount of passion alone will pay my mortgage and bills, and I’m not fortunate enough to be a trust fund baby to be able to chase things with no interest of profit. I’ve already taught without getting paid as a hobby, it was fine since the head instructor was already putting his own money into things to ensure struggling families had a chance to participate, but rather than follow his path of 70+ hours at work a week followed by a dozen or so hours in the dojo I’d rather just spend the time doing something I enjoy while making money to support myself.

Yea, so you have no money but have the means to create this elaborate facility full of equipment that everyone can use but you are not willing to put in the time to get there. Best of luck. Let us know how it works out.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

1. Was only looking to see if the idea was something that would be generally of interest.
2. Over the years I’ve learned that a lot of schools have head instructors who are 1st and 2nd degree black belts, so those are the schools I’d primarily be targeting.(I won’t say a specific market share that fall into that category because I’m really not that far into the market research.) You are right it would be pretty silly to approach a school owner who has been running the school successfully for 20+ years at this point.
3. I gave advice to a business owner who refused to take my advice, that school is still open and likely will be for years to come.

I also did the marketing for the family motorcycle shop which had a successful 16 year run including a major up sizing until I joined the navy I’d say I do have experience. The shop only closed because the 70yr olds who ran decided they didn’t want to work any more.

My goal is not to approach well established schools that have been operating for over a decade, but there are several places locally that appear to be operating out of the basement or garage of the instructor’s personal residence.
For a monthly, semi-annual, or annual membership fee they could have someone helping them with marketing and promotion as well as a more professional facility they can use to help to bring and keep students. (Let’s face it people with no martial arts knowledge are more likely to end up with a poor teacher with a professional looking facility, than a great teacher using their garage, a punching bag and a fold up mat)

There's certainly a need out there for those starting schools (and even for those who have established small programs, but want to do more with them). Hear the feedback here as most of it is intended: as honest assessment and alerts to risks. I don't know your age - you "sound" young, but may not be. Be aware that most folks have difficulty seeing expertise in youth, though there are certainly some very competent younger people. (When I say "younger", I simply mean younger than the prospective client.)

There are parts of your concept (I won't call it a plan - it sounds like you're still feeling out the concept) that seem like a good idea. Other parts seem problematic, and sorting those out is a good use of forums like this.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I get that, but who gave the BBB their authority hand out certificates that basically say ‘these are good people to do business with’?

Like I said it feels pretentious to call it an accreditation board but something like a martial arts specific version of the BBB, if that makes sense.

Not credentialing a TKD instructor in TKD, but more like saying “this instructor has shown that they will teach their style in a way conducive to realistic self denfense and/or full contact sport sparring.

Hope that make sense

It's an issue any time credential programs are started, in any industry. I'm a Certified Professional Behaviors Analyst (CPBA) and Certified Professional Motivators Analyst (CPMA). Those credentials were issued by a company that one day (I don't know when) decided they would start issuing credentials. If they had done a crappy job, their credentials would mean worse than nothing. If they'd done a fantastic job, their credentials would be widely recognized. They fell somewhere in between, so the credentials are somewhat useful, but only to a small extent. PMI (Project Management Institute) did a better job establishing their PMP (Project Management Professional) certification.

In MA, it's tricky to establish any credentials. I'd considered offering instructor training (possibly with some certification), but it would be certification in the teaching methods, not in any specific MA techniques. Unfortunately, there have been a LOT of groups that offered absolutely spurious credentials within MA. I can't think of a good cross-art credential that exists, in fact (though there may be some), so I decided if I ever did offer cross-art instructor training, I probably wouldn't bother to offer any certification.