A funny thing happened at TKD Class tonight...

[shesulsa]

In this case, I think jumped on the kid because I simply refuse to take correction from a child.

And rightly so. He is seven, though. My daughter is 11 and for the past five or six years has been trying to find her own third-world country to rule. Over time, though, she has developed a deep respect for me (her T.A. and mom) and her instructor (my colleague and friend) and most definitely for our teacher and his teacher because we talked with her much about assumptions of rank. She has also witnessed higher ranks than her behaving in not-so-nice ways and asked about it, related her opinion.

I have an advantage here because she's my daughter and I can chat with her about these things. One of the most important things I shared with her (in my opinion) and one that made the difference, really, is to keep her mind open because you never know (a) what you can learn from anyone (b) why they are living their challenge and by the way what is hers (c) what their home life and past is/has been like. Hopefully this boy will someday look up to you to set examples of exemplery behavior. What an opportunity for both of you, should that happen!

WHAT YOU REALLY SHOULD DO: See if your KJN is willing to have another discussion with you regarding this and see how HE wants you to handle this situation should it arise in future.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Bignick,

I was only away for about a month and a half. I didn't have the luxury of learning any martial arts as a child. I had only Folkstyle/Freestyle wrestling to work with.

I started TKD at the age of 30 (nearly 31), because I wanted to achieve a lifelong dream of learning martial arts. What brought me into the Dojang is that my wife and kids had already started, and I watched them for a few months, and really enjoyed what I saw. At that point, I decided to embark on that journey. I did get a little bit sidetracked along the way, but I did right the ship so to speak.

My GM says generally the same thing you have. If a person walks away from the school, and comes back to train, it means that they truly want to be there. I think he was right, because I've been more dedicated than even I thought I could be.

By the way, I wasn't escorted away, LOL. I just walked off the floor and left that night. About a week later I went back and appologized to my KJN, and then to the entire class. A little over a month later I asked to come back, and he would not let me, and so I went to our GM for advice. Our GM held a meeting with my KJN and I and we talked it all out, and cleared the air. This was probably the first thing I really fought for in my life. In the past, if I could take an easy way out, I often would. This time I didn't and so I'm not gonna let my KJN or GM down.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Shesulsa,

I did talk with my KJN after all of this went down, and I agree that It's maybe not a good idea for me to be doing the reprimanding in the future, especially since I seldom reprimand with tact (my words not his).

I am in the unique position of also having a daughter that wants her own country to rule LOL. My daughter is of Higher rank than I and it's taken a lot of doing on my part to remind her that while she holds TKD rank, I hold the most powerful rank in the Daddy/Daughter relationship I still bow, and greet her at the beginning of classes, mostly so that she understands that the rank she has represents achievement worthy of respect

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Shesulsa, You know, I think I will ask my KJN about that again. Maybe it's not being reinforced enough in our school that children should always be courteous to adults. I know it's part of the childrens school rules, so I guess I'll have to talk with KJN about it.

 

[shesulsa]

Shesulsa, You know, I think I will ask my KJN about that again. Maybe it's not being reinforced enough in our school that children should always be courteous to adults. I know it's part of the childrens school rules, so I guess I'll have to talk with KJN about it.

To demonstrate that you have respect for higher ranks, you might want to make the questions about what YOU can do should you face this kind of reprimand from a junior rank above yours - not what they do / do not teach in the kids class. He should give you direct answers as to what to say and what not to say, how to react and not to react, etc. Hopefully, from this, he will be more watchful of the boy in question as well.

Good luck.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Shesulsa,

Thank you very good point. I will ask what I should do in that situation in the future.

 

[XxTKDPenguinxX]

Wow...

I thought I was the only one who saw this.

Yeah, basicly I am sick and tired of the whole attitude with some of the kids these days. The total lack of respect and ambition is sickening as a whole. Sure, there are plenty of exceptions out there. There always will be the ones that deserve every ounce of rank they have.
Then there are those that get the McDojang belts and think they have the right to be the instructors.

We, as a school, have set the example and the bar several levels up. Any child will never out-rank an adult. No adult will tell a child what to do either. They are both students and should both be worying about themselves. The only people that should be telling anyone anything is the instructors when speaking with the students, and the parents when speaking with their own children.
Children thet do not listen, pay attention, or follow directions will be set aside (similar to a time out) and I have yet had an adult refuse to do anything or need to be spoken to.

And with all do respect, I will NOT allow any parent to speak to ANY of my students as it was explained unless it is their own child. And as such, I will not allow my students to argue with any of my parents or other students. This goes against our philosophy.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Penguin,

My KJN more or less made it a point to take control of the situation with the parent. The only speaking I did after he interjected was directly to him, and of course that was in the manner of acknowleging his instruction to not get involved with the parent.

For the most part, I do not normally tell any child what to do in class. At most, I will offer them guidance on the performance of a technique (If I notice something that they can improve), or ask them for guidance (when they execute a technique very well, and I need to improve it).

I usually leave the discipline to the KJN or my wife (The next senior instructor in our school).

At least I get the satisfaction of knowing that my 7 year old schools that kid pretty regularly. Of course, if it turns out that the kids dad tells him to start executing techniques against my son that violate the rules (It's happened before), I will instruct my son to only act as he is supposed to. I'll let KJN take care of the rest

From the sounds of it you are in a traditional school. Am I correct? For the most part we are a traditional school. I do tend to think that with some of the children in our classes (not all, but some) there is a McDojangish awarding of belts (if anything to appease the parents). With the adults in the class, and the teen-aged young adults, there are definitely no free rides. And that I definitely appreciate.

 

[XxTKDPenguinxX]

Tkang,

First or all, I wish to offer an appology if I caused any feeling of disrespect towards you or your instructor. That was not my intent.
Secondly, I will say that I am not in a traditional school, so to speak. Our school comes from the ATA and thus subject of much debate. I admit that there are many flaws with the system (meaning the way it is ran). Most of the flaws come from the school owners of each location. It is because of them that the term McDojang is used when speaking of our schools. Our style is more modernized. We train with some traditional ideas, however, we apply what we have learned to the modern era.
Thirdly, I have seen this "retaliation" factor before. I am sure your instructor will handle the matter quickly, as he should.

The unfortunate part of any school that is trying its best to make money, someone pays the price. The poor school owner that has been holding down a full time jobs while spending all of his spare time teaching and runing a school. His/her dream is to teach full time. To have the dream job... Do what you love and love what you do... and get paid for it! :ultracool One parent could take away others from the school if allowed to rumor. avoid rumors by making them happy... make them happy by giving their kids ranks or similar things.

Well... that's another subject for another time...
Once again, please accept my sincere appology for any ill feelings I may have projected:asian: . Keep up with your training, do what you know you are suppose to do and most importantly... HAVE FUN!

 

[shaolinchi]

When I first got into Shaolin Kung Fu many years ago, I had already gotten my black belt in Tae Kwon Do, so I was going on my second art. This snot faced kid comes waltzing up to me after class (I was assisting the instructor at the time), when I was putting my belt on he goes..."Bah, you're only a Blue belt?" So I said something to the instructor because I was taken aback by it, and didn't know how to respond. My instructor pulled him aside and gently explained that I was an assistant, he needs to treat me with the respect that all other students gave to me, and that I was a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and that at any point I could kick him across the room....I don't think I have ever laughed so hard in my life. The kids jaw just dropped. It was funny

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Penguin,

I took nothing you said as disrespectful, so no appology necessary friend I asked about whether or not your school was traditional, because you do seem to show a very good understanding of some of the traditional philosophies.

I don't know much about the ATA, so I would be in no position to speak on it. To do so would be a very uninformed position on my part. Also, I tend to ignore people that get into the whole "my martial art/organization is better than yours" type arguments.

I tend to preach the idea that each organization/MA has it's own merits and value, as well as it's own level of effectiveness in self-defense/street situations, so it's all good

I think to some end, each school in this modern era has to submit to some level of "McDojangism" in order to survive. I know in my area, the cost of living alone could lead most schools into this designation. I'm lucky, I feel as if I had found a really good school, and I get extreme value for the curriculum I get to learn. The best part about it is that my school charges me about 30-40 dollars per month less than most in the area.

I agree with you about rumors started by a single parent. In the case of the child in question, his father is definitely one of those types (a read of the things I've mentioned illustrates that). I think my KJN would have that concern to some degree, as he does own his school and teaches there full time (owned the school for about 5 yrs now). He's had some difficulties along the way, but I know that the word of mouth for his school is generally very good (His idea of advertising is being listed as a general listing in the yellow pages, no ad, just the school name, phone, etc...).

Anyhow, to sum it up, my honest assessment is that there are maybe 3 students in my whole school that do not deserve their ranking (out of about 60 total students) so there's hope for us yet

 

[Tkang_TKD]

When I first got into Shaolin Kung Fu many years ago, I had already gotten my black belt in Tae Kwon Do, so I was going on my second art. This snot faced kid comes waltzing up to me after class (I was assisting the instructor at the time), when I was putting my belt on he goes..."Bah, you're only a Blue belt?" So I said something to the instructor because I was taken aback by it, and didn't know how to respond. My instructor pulled him aside and gently explained that I was an assistant, he needs to treat me with the respect that all other students gave to me, and that I was a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and that at any point I could kick him across the room....I don't think I have ever laughed so hard in my life. The kids jaw just dropped. It was funny

LOL that is just absolutely great! I would love to see the kids face if our instructor were to tell him that same thing about me (except the black belt part). That would have been classic!

 

[Ahriman]

Tkang,

"I was watching other students peform a 3 kick combo, so that I could study the footwork before doing several reps of the combo myself."

I tend to be smart-mouth when it comes to people like that. If I was in that same situation, I would have explained that I wasn't sure on the footwork; and ask for the kid to show me how it is done.

At that point he is left with a choice, let you keep watching which defeats his authority to begin with. Or actually help you out which means he won't be playing around when he shouldn't. If he tries arguing, it would make him look worse in front of everyone else on his own accord ... man I wish I was in your shoes, it would have been funny

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Ahriman,

I think I was smart mouthed enough when I told him "mind your manners boy!" LOL. The thought did cross my mind to tap him a little harder than lightly when we was stopping between each kick. Fortuately, I chose to pull my kicks instead of hitting him. I'm sure when we switched direction, and he got to see the kicks, maybe he learned something

As to his authority....I don't and won't recognize the authority of a 7 year old.

 

[shesulsa]

Tkang, how are things going?

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Tkang, how are things going?

Things have been dramatically improved. We found out that it wasn't the smart mouthed freind whining to his dad, it was the kids friend who didn't even know what was going on.

Once that came to the forefront, my KJN quickly broke everything down, and let the kids know that they are KIDS, and not adults, and that they are to show proper courtesy and respect to all adults, regardless of what belt they wear.

As for the kid, he's been acting much better in class, and has been far more courteous to me ever since