A different question about shin conditioning

[7starmantis]

I see very little purpose in doing so. Heck, if it makes you feel better, have at it.

I see great purpose in it, but I think it can be done in different ways or methods aside from using a pole or rod. I'm more of the action type of person so I like doing the conditioning while working on other things, so actually performing kicks to condition is my advise. Starting on bags is the best (the softer the better) then move ot tightly packed bags, then you can move to partner drills, then live sparring.

7sm

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

I see great purpose in it, but I think it can be done in different ways or methods aside from using a pole or rod. I'm more of the action type of person so I like doing the conditioning while working on other things, so actually performing kicks to condition is my advise. Starting on bags is the best (the softer the better) then move ot tightly packed bags, then you can move to partner drills, then live sparring.

7sm

Well, perhaps it's not useless, but rolling something on your shins and actually having your shins impact something are two very different things; and I'm betting they serve different functions of conditioning. The latter, in nature, is more functional to Muay Thai. At least, that's my opinion; I don't expect everyone to agree. That minor disagreement aside, I agree with everything you said, with one other minor exception: beginners should be doing all of that immediately, albeit, lightly. Start with light bags, then move to the heavier banana bag, then thai pads, then sparring drills then light sparring with lots of pads and strict attention from the trainer (since I'm not a licensed instructor), Kru, or Ajarn. In Thailand, since most fighters belong to a camp for the sole purpose of becoming professional fighters, it's essential that they are conditioned to, and do, fight as soon as possible, and are in a position to win the purse.

 

[MJS]

I would think that starting off slow, with the rolling method would be best. Any time we start something new, it should be done slow IMO, gradually working up to more intensity. I have seen people doing both methods though, the rolling and the hitting.

Mike

 

[silat]

After all I've read, it seems pretty clear that shin conditioning, especially when done incorrectly and over long periods of time, can be pretty dangerous to your long-term health. However, if you're gonna do Muay Thai, there is a certain amount of abuse that your shins will take regardless. I'm new to MT, so I'm wondering if just a month or 2 of shin conditioning (light rolling, not hitting, with a padded bar or rod) would have long-term effects.

Jagermeister,

Rolling is fine to start out with as well as tapping to condition the shins to begin kicking the bag. Roll with a glass bottle and tap with a rolled up magazine everyday for a month then your shins will be ready to slam the heavy bag.

Whatever type of shin conditioning you do one should always use a good conditioning liniment such as Dit Da Jow or Balur Oil. These liniments will toughen the skin & strengthen shins and keep the bruising down or heal injured shins.

Sincerely,
Teacher: Eddie Ivester

 

[7starmantis]

Well, perhaps it's not useless, but rolling something on your shins and actually having your shins impact something are two very different things; and I'm betting they serve different functions of conditioning. The latter, in nature, is more functional to Muay Thai. At least, that's my opinion; I don't expect everyone to agree. That minor disagreement aside, I agree with everything you said, with one other minor exception: beginners should be doing all of that immediately, albeit, lightly. Start with light bags, then move to the heavier banana bag, then thai pads, then sparring drills then light sparring with lots of pads and strict attention from the trainer (since I'm not a licensed instructor), Kru, or Ajarn. In Thailand, since most fighters belong to a camp for the sole purpose of becoming professional fighters, it's essential that they are conditioned to, and do, fight as soon as possible, and are in a position to win the purse.

I can see your point. I think the two methods actually arrive at the same destination, but either way. I'm not sure I understand what you meant about beginners doing all of it immediately. Do you mean they should be doing soft bags, harder bags, partner drills, and free sparring all immediately?

7sm

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

I'm not sure I understand what you meant about beginners doing all of it immediately. Do you mean they should be doing soft bags, harder bags, partner drills, and free sparring all immediately?

Yes, in principle; for example you say free sparring, but there can be set levels of contact and restricted areas. For example, just boxing, and nothing to the face. Also, it should be noted that the guys I train with are adults. As such, I see no purpose in not exposing them to everything they will be doing; albeit, at lower intensity and contact levels. I never push them, or try to make them feel like they should do more. I train them for free, they show up we work out, we have a good time. Trust me, training once a week, it took them a while to withstand a full work out. But that's not what I'm talking about, going all-out right away. I want people to have an opportunity to test what I'm showing them, as I'm showing it to them. I've never been fond of conceptualizing to the point where people can become skeptical; I want them to see that it works.

Of course we're not even addressing shadow sparring and sparring drills. It's a progressive process, it's not like I'm just tossing them gear and having them go at it. In every session there should be warm-up: run, rope, shadow boxing, bag work, pad work; drills: upper body bag, upper body pad, lower body bag, lower body pad; combination drills: mixed combos on bag and pads; shadow sparring: no-to-light (and I mean light) contact, to focus on offensive, defensive and counter-offensive strategy--allowing you to try things without the consequence of getting hurt; sparring drills: like combination drills, but where both partners are throwing and blocking/slipping, so if you're off, there is a chance of being hit--again, light contact; and sparring: set contact and set areas. First the technique, then drill it 'till they know it, then explain how to use it, and let them try. That way, if they don't feel right about something, they are in a position to raise questions about it right away.

I have gotten way off-topic, and would like to apologize to the original poster. As to the original post; I'm not going to say that someone else's method is wrong. If you want to condition your shins and don't have a bag, there are plenty of ways to make a home-made "bag." That's my suggestion; people say rolling stuff on your shins helps, but I've never had it do anything for me. Then again, I've been kicking bags since I was thirteen, lol. . .that might have something to do with it. I don't think rolling devices will condition your shins any faster than training, unless you're not training, of course.

 

[7starmantis]

Yeah, on topic, I think we agree. Its a process that has to begin and progressively lead to harder and more advanced contact. I wouldn't advise a person who has never conditioned theri shin whatsoever to start with hard contact partner drills, but contact drills with a pertner can be donre quite light. Also, its not everyday you have a pertner. I would heavily advise doign it more than once a week, I would advise doing it everyday at least for 3 months or so. I think the point of rollin gsomething is to condition when you have no partner or bag. It works the same its just a difference method. Its usually done at a beginner level anyway.

7sm

 

[Jagermeister]

Having been training for a little while now, I can see why a lot of people don't bother with conditioning. My shins are freshly bruised daily as it is from hitting the leg kick pad, thai pads, and heavy bag. I really don't think I could take much more! I just ordered some dit da jow, so hopefully that will help out a bit as well.

 

[Odin]

I found kicking the hard bags to be the best form of conditioning,since starting muay thai Ive heard hundreds of myths about shin coinditioning and the dangers and what you should and shouldnt do...so what i did was hit my Kru in the shin with a broom stick! (WARNING:i happen to be very good friends with him if you just started you class i dont think you should attack kru witout asking!) he barely flinched and so I asked him what he did to get his shins that way since that was the overall result I wanted to achieve..and then listened.''kick the hard bag everyday at least 200 on each leg...and then roll your knuckles down your shin when ever you have 5-10mins or so to spare no matter where you are, even waiting for a bus,or waiting for your girlfriend to get ready when ever you can,they will be come conditioned in no time''..so thats what I do...but sometimes I do get bored and then just walk around randomly shining things!

 

[Muay Thai Knee]

LOL Yeah don't hit Kru. Bad idea.

 

[Jagermeister]

From my experience as a beginner, I'm not sure I would agree with the hard bag idea. I've suffered the worst bruises from hitting low on the heavy bag where it's the hardest, and I don't think that the idea of "the more severe the bruising, the better" holds up. I'm assuming also that you train like we do, hitting as hard as you can with each kick. In fact, I would say that the bruising from the heavy bag has hurt my shin conditioning, if anything, because I had to take it easy afterwards for a day or two to allow time for healing. I just don't think it's good to keep banging away on something that hard when the shins are that tender. Again, this is just my own experience, as a beginner. Any thoughts from the veterans here?

Edit: An afterthought - I think the difference is that with thai pads, for example, the impact is distributed more evenly along the shin, whereas the impact from the heavy bag is focused and directed more or less on one specific point, which can lead to deeper bruising, which, imo, is not the goal of careful shin conditioning.

 

[Odin]

http://www.ironlife.com/mag/issue6/shin.shtml

Check that it has some alright info..

 

[Jagermeister]

Thanks Odin. That's a helpful site, but the text sort of runs out at the end. Do you know how the rest of it reads?

 

[Jagermeister]

Okay, I used my brain for a minute and I checked the page source. I'll post it here since the formatting of that page was a little screwed up.

"So It's all about deadening nerves?"

Not entirely. As stated above it is also a psychological process. Another thing to help condition shins is to condition the muscles that are surrounding the shins. These muscles are usually worked out from the intense amounts of running and skipping a Thai boxer will do. The Thai style of running, whereby you strike the road/floor with the ball of your feet and stay on your toes, works the Calf muscles which in turn builds the muscle defenses on the side of the shin. As is the same with skipping.

So remember ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, train hard but train smart and train safe!

Keep your guard up and Chok Dee!

 

[Odin]

Okay, I used my brain for a minute and I checked the page source. I'll post it here since the formatting of that page was a little screwed up.

That stuff is true your calf and surrounding muscles support your shin making your shin stronger and if as my kru said if you have a wooden stick then hit it against a stick made of glass the glass stick will break then if you hit that same wooden stick against a metal pole the wooden stick will break...see that video where the guys shin snaps..if he had stronger calf's he might have avoided that..check this link out it has loads of different exercises for building you calfs up.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?MainMuscle=Calves

 

[Odin]

or even simpler just walk around on your tip toes when ever you can that works a treat.

 

[Jagermeister]

...see that video where the guys shin snaps..if he had stronger calf's he might have avoided that...

Although I agree with you on the previous points you made, I don't think any amount of calf strength can prevent something like that from happening. I've been told that many times breaks like that are a result of a preexisting stress fracture that went untreated.

 

[Odin]

Although I agree with you on the previous points you made, I don't think any amount of calf strength can prevent something like that from happening. I've been told that many times breaks like that are a result of a preexisting stress fracture that went untreated.

Yeah true,but trust me good supporting muslces are very important.