6 year old first dan??? whiskey tango foxtrot!

[jobo]

Actually, what's happening is you're continuing your MO of changing the target to avoid defending an entirely incorrect statement you made.

When we reach that point, we're done. So we're done here.

Actually, what's happening is you're continuing your MO of changing the target to avoid defending an entirely incorrect statement you made.

When we reach that point, we're done. So we're done here.

the original bone of contention is that you have a secret definition of IQ that you wont reveal, but you are using your secrete definition to conclude I'm wrong

 

[dvcochran]

@jobo, Let is go. It is ok, just let it go.

 

[Headhunter]

@jobo, Let is go. It is ok, just let it go.

Wow jobo arguing about something? Damm that's rare....sarcasm

 

[jobo]

Wow jobo arguing about something? Damm that's rare....sarcasm

as a general rule of thumb, if you need to explain you were being sarcastic you weren't being sarcastic enough for it to count as sarcasm

 

[jobo]

@jobo, Let is go. It is ok, just let it go.

its these people that flounce off rather than admit their error, it must be an American thing, flouncing off,

 

[JR 137]

Memory is a function in the brain, and is a large part of how we generate what is commonly known as knowledge. If someone doesn't "know" something, they can't remember it (whether they could in the past or not). If you see a distinction between them, provide it.

As for your claim that someone could move from around the 50th percentile to something significantly higher just by practicing the test, I've never seen that in any study. The closest I've seen is that several years of schooling (in the write-up I'm recalling, it was early schooling) can raise the IQ by several points (I believe they cited an average of 7-8 points).

From what I’ve read, they can improve by several points. But those few points are insignificant. They’re no where near a full standard deviation. When measuring IQ, a couple point swing is insignificant. What’s significant is if you can improve by a standard deviation, which is practically impossible.

Most tests like admissions tests, such as the SAT, ACT, GRE, MCAT, et al. are measuring memory recall more than anything else. IQ is measuring complex problem solving far more than memory recall. Somehow with IQ, incorrect answers that show the correct thought process get awarded some points. In most other tests, the answer is either right or wrong.

I saw quite a few sample tests from many tests during my graduate Measurement and Appraisal class. IQ test is quite a bit different than anything else I came across.

As far as predicting collegiate success... the SAT and ACT aren’t very reliable. Look at the drop out rate of undergrad students. The ASVAB test (Armed Services Vocational Battery) was statistically far better at predicting success within a field of study when we analyzed the data. That was around 2003, so things may have changed. But I doubt it, to be honest.

When I was in high school, everyone took the ASVAB. I don’t think it’s like that anymore.

 

[dvcochran]

Somehow with IQ, incorrect answers that show the correct thought process get awarded some points. In most other tests, the answer is either right or wrong.

This reminds me of when I would get dinged for not following the steps in algebra or calculus, even though I got the answer right. It never made good sense to me. When someone is first learning the formula or equation I get it. But not when you know how to apply them and can skip a few steps.

 

[jobo]

From what I’ve read, they can improve by several points. But those few points are insignificant. They’re no where near a full standard deviation. When measuring IQ, a couple point swing is insignificant. What’s significant is if you can improve by a standard deviation, which is practically impossible.

Most tests like admissions tests, such as the SAT, ACT, GRE, MCAT, et al. are measuring memory recall more than anything else. IQ is measuring complex problem solving far more than memory recall. Somehow with IQ, incorrect answers that show the correct thought process get awarded some points. In most other tests, the answer is either right or wrong.

I saw quite a few sample tests from many tests during my graduate Measurement and Appraisal class. IQ test is quite a bit different than anything else I came across.

As far as predicting collegiate success... the SAT and ACT aren’t very reliable. Look at the drop out rate of undergrad students. The ASVAB test (Armed Services Vocational Battery) was statistically far better at predicting success within a field of study when we analyzed the data. That was around 2003, so things may have changed. But I doubt it, to be honest.

When I was in high school, everyone took the ASVAB. I don’t think it’s like that anymore.

I take issue that a rise of say 8 points isn't significant, that's a SIGNIFICANTLY high % increase for someone who has a low score to begin with
, bu heres an article on a study which quotes a figure of 28 points increase that can be achieved by ration problem solving practise, which by any measure is significant

New Evidence That IQ Can Be Increased With Brain Training

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This reminds me of when I would get dinged for not following the steps in algebra or calculus, even though I got the answer right. It never made good sense to me. When someone is first learning the formula or equation I get it. But not when you know how to apply them and can skip a few steps.

For a couple of years in math, the math was too easy for me (they cured that when I got to calculus). The teacher would tell me I had to show all my steps, and I'd reply, "That IS all my steps!"

 

[jobo]

For a couple of years in math, the math was too easy for me (they cured that when I got to calculus). The teacher would tell me I had to show all my steps, and I'd reply, "That IS all my steps!"

I bet your to young to have learned to use a slide rule " calculator"

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I take issue that a rise of say 8 points isn't significant, that's a SIGNIFICANTLY high % increase for someone who has a low score to begin with
, bu heres an article on a study which quotes a figure of 28 points increase that can be achieved by ration problem solving practise, which by any measure is significant

New Evidence That IQ Can Be Increased With Brain Training

A good example of a problem with the IQ test and defining intelligence (what IQ is "supposed" to be measuring should not be this malleable). Thanks for sharing that.

Note that this is not training by the test, but training to develop related skills. Interestingly, schooling doesn't seem to have a similar effect (or at least, not of this magnitude and time frame).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I bet your to young to have learned to use a slide rule " calculator"

I've used one, but only out of intellectual curiosity. I had a very nice leather-based one that used to belong to my grandfather. No idea what happened to that - I'd love to have it on my desk right now.

 

[jobo]

A good example of a problem with the IQ test and defining intelligence (what IQ is "supposed" to be measuring should not be this malleable). Thanks for sharing that.

Note that this is not training by the test, but training to develop related skills. Interestingly, schooling doesn't seem to have a similar effect (or at least, not of this magnitude and time frame).

yes, but doing brain train that mimic IQ tests is much the same as doing brain training using iq tests,

but it is malleable, the latest thinking is that iq is circa 50% genetic and 50% nurture / enviroment, even if that ratio is more towards genetics,, its fairly obvious that changing the environment for the better will have the effect of increasing your IQ, there is no way to factor that out

the issue is " education " should teach you to think, not just to be able to regurgitate information, that commonly only comes into effect at university, and certainly not in state schools, by which time it's to late to effect your life choices, unless you take matters into your own hands as an adult

 

[dvcochran]

I bet your to young to have learned to use a slide rule " calculator"

Oh, I remember the "slipstick" and the architects scale quite well. Still use the scale quite often.

 

[dvcochran]

For a couple of years in math, the math was too easy for me (they cured that when I got to calculus). The teacher would tell me I had to show all my steps, and I'd reply, "That IS all my steps!"

I hate calculus, because I do not use it everyday, but it is incredibly elegant. There are several conditions when we have no choice. In interpolated motion applications it is the best way to do the math. It is possible programming the motion without it but it gets really long and sloppy. Hard to troubleshoot.

 

[JR 137]

For a couple of years in math, the math was too easy for me (they cured that when I got to calculus). The teacher would tell me I had to show all my steps, and I'd reply, "That IS all my steps!"

The problem is kids not showing any work and giving an incorrect answer. You have no way of really knowing if they understand and can easily use the concept or not. A wrong answer in a complicated problem could mean they simply forgot to carry the 1 or messed up a simple addition or subtraction. Or it could mean they had no f’ing clue and wrote down anything.

I’ve been teaching grades 5 and 6 math this year and I despise teaching it. No way I’m going to do it again. Except for two kids who are completely clueless, when my kids make mistakes, it’s the simple math, not how to do the actual problem. As a teacher, I can live with the simple mistakes and not get stressed out about it. It’s the kids who’ve got no clue that make me have to change the way I present it.

Them showing the work allows me to give partial credit. Only putting an answer down doesn’t.

Then there’s NYS tests. The Regents exam in algebra has taken an odd turn. In the multi-step section, which is quite a big portion, the correct answer is worth 1/10 points. So the kids like you who just put an answer down, even if it’s correct, will score a maximum of 5/50. We had one clown do just that. He refused to show his work all year. The teacher kept penalizing him (but not to that extent) and told him repeatedly he’d lose all those points when he took the NYS exam. His reply “I’ll show my work on that test.” He didn’t do it. He got every answer right and still failed it. And he was reminded during the test, even though we weren’t allowed to. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.

 

[JR 137]

For a couple of years in math, the math was too easy for me (they cured that when I got to calculus). The teacher would tell me I had to show all my steps, and I'd reply, "That IS all my steps!"

In the calculus I took, it was all about skipping steps - derivatives.

I took technical math 1-3 during my 3 semester stint in mechanical engineering. Technical math was all engineering math - logarithms, derivatives, graphing stuff, et al. It was all calculus based. I actually did pretty well and the professors for those classes all told me I should be a math major because the way I see it and understand it. Not a chance. I despised it. Doing math for a realistic outcome is one thing; doing it for the sake of doing it and/or teaching it is quite another. I really liked using it in my technical physics 1 and 2 classes, but just sitting there doing math problems made me want to off myself.

 

[CB Jones]

Kinda funny how far off track this thread has gone.

Started off about a 6 year old bb and now is on testing IQ and doing math....lol.

 

[TSDTexan]

I have a few of those Honorary suckers. They're in a cardboard mailing tube in my closet. I just went and looked at them and yup, they say "Honorary Black Belt" right there on the front of them.

But I'll tell you what, they mean more to me than ones I've earned. To me, they are a great honor bestowed upon me by long time recognized Instructors from other systems/styles/lineages. Some of these people I've trained off and on with for forty years. I've trained some of their students in how to apply their own art to fighting and/or self defense, I've trained under some of their instructors, too, Masters, what-have-you. And back in the day we used to beat the crap out of each other in competitions, or at each others dojos.

I'm just surprised nobody as yet to give me an Honorary Punching Bag certificate. I think I've earned it.

Glad to know that at least some of them honorary certs have it on em.

 

[TSDTexan]

Kinda funny how far off track this thread has gone.

Started off about a 6 year old bb and now is on testing IQ and doing math....lol.

yep. but not really. The MT posting community tends to do that. Something about attention spans and staying on poin...
HEY LOOK! Its a Squirrel!!!