5 reasons TaeKwonDo as a system (not individual techniques) breaks down in a Muay Thai ring

[drop bear]

And as we've noted here before, Self Defense is not at all the same thing as a Street Fight. Self defense is (for example) when three young men come up from behind you at a dark corner, armed with knifes or whatnot, with intent to rob or otherwise do you harm. A street fight is when two knuckleheads square off against each other in the street, usually over something stupid. And neither of those is very much like military Combat, which is itself another thing entirely. Unfortunately, online discussions tend to conflate those three things, as if they're interchangeable.

The issue you have is there is no truth with that method. If you can't find the interchange between what works in training to what works in sport to what works in a street fight, mugging or war.

You can never make links based on evidence. And will be reliant on stories.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The issue you have is there is no truth with that method. If you can't find the interchange between what works in training to what works in sport to what works in a street fight, mugging or war.

You can never make links based on evidence. And will be reliant on stories.

For a large portion, there should be plenty of sport-related evidence of what is workable. There are things that won't fit (they don't get tested in sport, or sport doesn't provide good equivalency), but the basics should be available from sport.

 

[DaveB]

No. It doesn't matter if he is making the wrong assumptions, asking the wrong questions or upsetting the establishment by trying to nut out an idea.

It is the asking questions and testing ideas that will make him the better martial artist.

Most people don't even know how to make good assumptions what tests to use or how to ask the correct questions let alone how to critically spot BS.

And never will if asking the wrong questions gets censored in favor of following authority.

Dude i know you have a bee in your bonet about this topic but Axiom is not about learning anything.

Nobody is offended by the questions: they are annoyed by the statements of fact that are in fact opinions that should really have been phrased as questions.

Axiom thinks he knows and dismisses those who know better witb zero respect for their experience or altruistic desire to educate him. He ignores inconvenient points and talks a load of rubbish with not even a hint that he's considering what has been said to him. There is no great conspiracy to silence decent, just a lot of folks with knowledge and a guy who doesnt want to hear.

 

[DaveB]

The issue you have is there is no truth with that method. If you can't find the interchange between what works in training to what works in sport to what works in a street fight, mugging or war.

You can never make links based on evidence. And will be reliant on stories.

Physics doesnt alter in the dojo. So long as training is appropriately resistive and alive, and you train with as wide a variety of opponents you should be able to have justified confidence in your techniques.

IMO Things you just can't do in practice like eye gouge or arm break you need to train the skills (like accuracy or power) and practicd as if they fail so you can compensate.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

a guy who doesnt want to hear.

It makes no sense for Axiom to start a thread so he can argue with everybody. If I start a thread, I'll put myself in "listen mode". I want to hear other's opinions. I already know my own opinion.

 

[Axiom]

Dude i know you have a bee in your bonet about this topic but Axiom is not about learning anything.

Nobody is offended by the questions: they are annoyed by the statements of fact that are in fact opinions that should really have been phrased as questions.

Axiom thinks he knows and dismisses those who know better witb zero respect for their experience or altruistic desire to educate him. He ignores inconvenient points and talks a load of rubbish with not even a hint that he's considering what has been said to him. There is no great conspiracy to silence decent, just a lot of folks with knowledge and a guy who doesnt want to hear.

Maybe if people put forward arguments instead of attacks on my person, I would actually concider them. RTKD objected that their footwork is not that of modern WTF and ITF competitors, but I'm not at all certain that the old-school styles would fare any better. I suspect the opposite actually. One style is too light off their feet, the other is just plain average , some would say "slow" .

 

[paitingman]

I don't think - X number of years spent in the art = knowledge about the system in a ring/the application of Taekwondo. It all depends on their sparring experience.

I welcome people who have done hard sparring against other striking systems, like I have and continue to do. That way you really test yourself and your system, if you are evenly matched.

I have experience in the ring kickboxing and Thai boxing. I gave a pretty thorough reply to your OP but you may not have seen it.
The only system I have seriously trained for competition and ring fighting is TKD.

I find that it works quite well when used correctly. accept crescent kicks though I have never been very great at them haha. There are just easier techniques for me.
The movement, distance, and timing are my main tools.
When there is space enough for me to use the tools to my abilities, I use almost only TKD.
The only thing I had to supplement was clinch fighting. also basic boxing to gain an understanding.
TKD and MT are not the same. But they each have trade offs. Strengths and weaknesses. I outline them in my earlier post

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Maybe if people put forward arguments instead of attacks on my person, I would actually concider them. RTKD objected that their footwork is not that of modern WTF and ITF competitors, but I'm not at all certain that the old-school styles would fare any better. I suspect the opposite actually. One style is too light off their feet, the other is just plain average , some would say "slow" .

Perhaps you could go back and look at the number of points that were made that you dismissed or failed to discuss. That's not an attack, but an honest suggestion. What has led several people to castigate you is their perception that you're standing by your original conclusion without regard to any conflicting points - to the point that you've dismissed many for unclear reasons (and some for reasons that seem illogical to me, but that may just be me).

 

[Axiom]

I have experience in the ring kickboxing and Thai boxing. I gave a pretty thorough reply to your OP but you may not have seen it.
The only system I have seriously trained for competition and ring fighting is TKD.

I find that it works quite well when used correctly. accept crescent kicks though I have never been very great at them haha. There are just easier techniques for me.
The movement, distance, and timing are my main tools.
When there is space enough for me to use the tools to my abilities, I use almost only TKD.
The only thing I had to supplement was clinch fighting. also basic boxing to gain an understanding.
TKD and MT are not the same. But they each have trade offs. Strengths and weaknesses. I outline them in my earlier post

Cool. No, I actually missed that post. Which TKD style is your base?

 

[paitingman]

I trained olympic style/kukki taekwondo and competed only in that manner for the first 5 years or so.
Then I branched out to more open style ITF and Shotokan competitions.
I had to adjust and adapt then. And again when I entered kickboxing/MT world. but the tools were all there for the most part.

 

[Axiom]

I trained olympic style/kukki taekwondo and competed only in that manner for the first 5 years or so.
Then I branched out to more open style ITF and Shotokan competitions.
I had to adjust and adapt then. And again when I entered kickboxing/MT world. but the tools were all there for the most part.

Did the TKD footwork translate to MT rules against skilled opponents?

 

[paitingman]

Did the TKD footwork translate to MT rules against skilled opponents?

Yes.
Like I said, at a distance and when I have space to move, I only use TKD movement.
Believe it or not I maybe check 1/10 leg kicks thrown at me. Usually in close range. Other than that I just move or brace and counter.
If you PM me I can talk more in detail about my personal strategies and what I've found to work well.
Or I can post them here if prompted.

 

[drop bear]

Dude i know you have a bee in your bonet about this topic but Axiom is not about learning anything.

Nobody is offended by the questions: they are annoyed by the statements of fact that are in fact opinions that should really have been phrased as questions.

Axiom thinks he knows and dismisses those who know better witb zero respect for their experience or altruistic desire to educate him. He ignores inconvenient points and talks a load of rubbish with not even a hint that he's considering what has been said to him. There is no great conspiracy to silence decent, just a lot of folks with knowledge and a guy who doesnt want to hear.

And yet this keeps happening.

 

[Flying Crane]

Respectful= no sucker punch before a dude says GO. anything goes. I have been in a a no-holds-barred challenge match. Wanna take a guess how I did

Permanent brain damage?

 

[drop bear]

this thread needs more steve superkick vick.

 

[Balrog]

You did not adress the topic. if you did earlier I must have forgotten it.

Your topic is whether TKD is better than MT. That topic has been beaten to death over many years. No style is better than another style. It's not the martial art, it's the martial artist that is important.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Cool. No, I actually missed that post. Which TKD style is your base?

Don't know if you noticed, but paitingman's excellent reply tracks pretty well with what I said in my initial response, coming from my background as a Muay Thai guy who has sparred TKD practitioners.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Your topic is whether TKD is better than MT. That topic has been beaten to death over many years. No style is better than another style. It's not the martial art, it's the martial artist that is important.

That's been argued though. There are certain styles that are not as good as other styles; I think it's a fair argument that both TKD and MT are better than no touch chi jutsu, or a lot of modern wushu, which is meant more as performance than fighting. Meanwhile there are styles such as Ameridote that are clearly much better than their alternatives.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

No. It doesn't matter if he is making the wrong assumptions, asking the wrong questions or upsetting the establishment by trying to nut out an idea.

It is the asking questions and testing ideas that will make him the better martial artist.

Most people don't even know how to make good assumptions what tests to use or how to ask the correct questions let alone how to critically spot BS.

And never will if asking the wrong questions gets censored in favor of following authority.

Nothing wrong with asking the wrong questions, making the wrong assumptions, or upsetting the establishment. Eventually that can lead to asking the right questions and making better assumptions.

In order to get there, however, he has to be willing to consider feedback with an open mind. Maybe it's not good for the "establishment" (people with decades of experience in an art) to be dogmatic about their opinions. If so, it's certainly not any better for someone with no experience in that art to be dogmatic in their views of it.

 

[drop bear]

Nothing wrong with asking the wrong questions, making the wrong assumptions, or upsetting the establishment. Eventually that can lead to asking the right questions and making better assumptions.

In order to get there, however, he has to be willing to consider feedback with an open mind. Maybe it's not good for the "establishment" (people with decades of experience in an art) to be dogmatic about their opinions. If so, it's certainly not any better for someone with no experience in that art to be dogmatic in their views of it.

I mean do you thinkmhe is just going to get that? Or is he going to spazzily work tnrough it?