5 reasons TaeKwonDo as a system (not individual techniques) breaks down in a Muay Thai ring

[Gerry Seymour]

Here an awful lot aren't whereas they would have before. Without turning this into a political discussion things have never been worse for them. The economy is such that more than ever they can't afford to buy houses, have to pay off crippling university loans, pay caps in the professions and generally have to struggle far more than their age group has before. For many reason life isn't that good, not much better for the rest of us either who aren't rich.

There may be a difference because of the economies. And their generation, in general, has delayed the move to these areas of "adult normalcy" later than previous generations. Likely at least part of that is due to economics - the student loan issue is equally imposing in the US.

 

[Balrog]

Ok, that's enough. We are have had more than enough of your nonsense, it's about time you grew up, stopped whinging, whining and more importantly stopped insulting people. People here have been more than tolerant of your prattling, they have seriously and sincerely tried to engage with you, all you've done is throw that back in people's faces.
...snip...

The answer to everything you write is very simple.....shut up and train.
.

It's just amazing how many issues that statement solves, isn't it?

Or as my instructor has said (and yes, he has said it to me more than once): "Now would be a really good time to just shut up and say 'Yes, sir!'"

 

[Axiom]

An awful lot of cackling in here. If you aren't knowledgeable about the topic and have no experience in TaeKwondo, please refrain from further derailing of the thread.

 

[Tez3]

An awful lot of cackling in here. If you aren't knowledgeable about the topic and have no experience in TaeKwondo, please refrain from further derailing the thread.

So you will stop posting things?

I'm afraid I'm terribly knowledgeable about Muay Thai.

And their generation, in general, has delayed the move to these areas of "adult normalcy" later than previous generations. Likely at least part of that is due to economics - the student loan issue is equally imposing in the US.

Here sadly the move to 'adult normalcy' has begun earlier because of the dire straits we are in economically. Most young people have to leave home to get work and the minimum wage for under 25s is appalling. Many people have actually said, young people are now old beyond their time.

 

[Tez3]

It's just amazing how many issues that statement solves, isn't it?

Or as my instructor has said (and yes, he has said it to me more than once): "Now would be a really good time to just shut up and say 'Yes, sir!'"

Sometimes shutting up and training is the answer. I can't understand why someone would want to bash their own style so much.

 

[Balrog]

An awful lot of cackling in here. If you aren't knowledgeable about the topic and have no experience in TaeKwondo, please refrain from further derailing of the thread.

Since this immediately follows my post by a couple of minutes, I'll assume that it was directed to me.

I'll repeat what was said earlier: Now would be a REALLY good time for you to shut up and go train.

I'm a 6th Degree Master Instructor in Taekwondo and have trained in the art for 33 years. I am knowledgeable about the topic. So are a whole lot of other folks in here that you have succeeded in insulting. You might go back to your instructor and ask him/her to explain to you the meaning of the terms courtesy and respect, as you seem to be severely lacking in understanding about them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

^^That's one of the people I mentioned earlier, when I said there were folks you were insulting who were far more knowledgeable than me.

 

[Axiom]

Since this immediately follows my post by a couple of minutes, I'll assume that it was directed to me.

I'll repeat what was said earlier: Now would be a REALLY good time for you to shut up and go train.

I'm a 6th Degree Master Instructor in Taekwondo and have trained in the art for 33 years. I am knowledgeable about the topic. So are a whole lot of other folks in here that you have succeeded in insulting. You might go back to your instructor and ask him/her to explain to you the meaning of the terms courtesy and respect, as you seem to be severely lacking in understanding about them.

You did not adress the topic. if you did earlier I must have forgotten it.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I welcome people who have done hard sparring against other striking systems, like I have and continue to do. That way you really test yourself and your system, if you are evenly matched.

Quite a few of us who have commented have a lot of experience in hard sparring against other systems*. I haven't seen you give much consideration of what we've told you.

*(For the record, I have sparred with practitioners of TKD, Karate, Muay Thai, Bando, Wing Chun, Capoeira, Shaolin Do, Boxing, Kali, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Wrestling, Jeet Kune Do, MMA, SCA heavy weapons, Irish stick fighting, American jujutsu, and more I'm not remembering at the moment, under a wide variety of rule sets.)

No but I'm gonna check it out.

Don't. The suggestion was meant to be humorous.

If you aren't knowledgeable about the topic and have no experience in TaeKwondo, please refrain from further derailing of the thread.

Once again, many of us are. Some of the people you've been arguing with are long-time practitioners and instructors of Tae Kwon Do. Others of us are long-time practitioners and instructors of Muay Thai. Some of us have done both. Given that you are a relative beginner in TKD and have no experience in Muay Thai, it might be wise to consider whether there are some things you don't understand as well as you think you do.

 

[Axiom]

I'm afraid I'm terribly knowledgeable about Muay Thai.

.

Yet you believed rival, correspondning striking techniques from other arts were prohibited under MT rules. Then when questioned retrofitted your comments to mean something else.

 

[Axiom]

*(For the record, I have sparred with practitioners of TKD, Karate, Muay Thai, Bando, Wing Chun, Capoeira, Shaolin Do, Boxing, Kali, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Wrestling, Jeet Kune Do, MMA, SCA heavy weapons, Irish stick fighting, American jujutsu, and more I'm not remembering at the moment, under a wide variety of rule sets.)
.

And I have sparred with a guy who did Ninjitsu. Doesn't mean I would presume to know anything about the art, which I don't.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And I have sparred with a guy who did Ninjitsu. Doesn't mean I would presume to know anything about the art, which I don't.

That one you just responded to? That's another of the people I was talking about. You're not asking any of the right questions before you dismiss folks' knowledge. Oddly, you dismissed him for responding to a very specific point you made:

I welcome people who have done hard sparring against other striking systems, like I have and continue to do. That way you really test yourself and your system, if you are evenly matched.

 

[Axiom]

That one you just responded to? That's another of the people I was talking about. You're not asking any of the right questions before you dismiss folks' knowledge. Oddly, you dismissed him for responding to a very specific point you made:

People who have trained TaeKwonDo (past yellow belt...) and done hard sparring against other arts.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

People who have trained TaeKwonDo (past yellow belt...) and done hard sparring against other arts.

Not what you originally said, but for the record I do have about a year of TKD experience. Perhaps more to the point, I'm a long term Muay Thai practitioner who has sparred against TKD practitioners. Since your original post was about TKD fighting vs MT, I think my background offers some relevant insight as to that can play out.

 

[hoshin1600]

 

[Archtkd]

KKW IS the style Seriously, if you don't even know that about TKD it's not possible to carry on the discussion. I'm being serious now.

So this is the juvenile way you choose to answer questions about the bogus assertions you keep making in your posts? How does that help you? Since you want to sound like a very enlightened guru please just answer the simple questions, which are based on what you so loudly yell here? Noble one please enlighten us ignorant peasants. When and who codified footwork in Kukki taekwondo? When did the WTF drive said footwork as you stated? When was the "universal" teaching style you seem so familiar with developed and by whom?

 

[Xue Sheng]

View attachment 21006

agreed, but I prefer this one

 

[Tez3]

but the rules of MT preclude you using techniques other than MT so you cannot get a comparison.

This is what I said. If the techniques that are allowed in MT are the same as techniques in TKD then they would be allowed wouldn't they? However there are techniques in TKD and other styles that will not be allowed in MT. There are takedowns in TKD that wouldn't be allowed in MT for instance. I think if you knew your own style better you would know what techniques wouldn't be allowed. It makes very good sense that only MT techniques are allowed in a MT bout, don't you? In soccer you aren't allowed to use rugby techniques such as carrying the ball so why would you expect things to be different in Muay Thai, it's a sport.

Yet you believed rival, correspondning striking techniques from other arts were prohibited under MT rules. Then when questioned retrofitted your comments to mean something else.

'Rival corresponding techniques'? what are you talking about? How are they 'rivals'?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

However there are techniques in TKD and other styles that will not be allowed in MT.

In fairness, none of the TKD techniques which are forbidden in MT competition are allowed in TKD competition either. As I noted previously, MT contest rules allow a much higher percentage of TKD techniques than TKD contest rules do.

 

[Tez3]

In fairness, none of the TKD techniques which are forbidden in MT competition are allowed in TKD competition either. As I noted previously, MT contest rules allow a much higher percentage of TKD techniques than TKD contest rules do.

True enough but he is adamant that TKD sparring isn't a sport ( got quite ratty when someone called it a sport) so presumably there are no 'forbidden' techniques in TKD. So, when the TKD fighter goes in the MT ring ( presumably to kill as TKD isn't a sport) he will use all his techniques and beat the MT fighter who is in a competition and is only using techniques allowed in MT. Confused yet?

I think what he is overlooking, is that there's so many way to punch and kick, variations on them but basically it's much of a muchness. In competitions such as TKD and MT there are rules about what is allowed and what isn't, totally pointless to argue whether TKD/karate would do well in a MT bout or whether a MT fighter would do well in a full contact competition. Better perhaps if you need a comparison would be to ask if they were just fighting/sparring on the mats using their own techniques who would come off better, because we pretend to be civilised we would need a few rules, such as length of bout, perhaps no kicking in the head when opponent is down that sort of thing. It's still speculation of course and any answer we came up with without having a bout would be dubious. So much depends on the fighter, some people are excellent fighters without actually knowing any martial arts, some people are useless despite having years of training. There's fitness and stamina to consider as well. A fighters mindset is also important, eagerness to press attacks, previous training whether full contact or 'points' type sparring.
Telling us style X will win against style Y when they are competing in style X's ring and with their rules, referee and judges is a bit like telling us that Manchester United players can compete against an Aussie rules team in Australia who are using Aussie rules, pitch etc. while Man U use FA rules and playing their normal football game then wondering why they lost.