4 things needed to destroy myth of creator deity

[elder999]

I'm only trying to get a feel of this 'outside the realm of science'. Is String Theory also outside the realm as we can really run experiments yet to verify?

String Theory was precisely the analogy I was goign to use. While it's given us some interesting maths, it isn't really subject to experimentation-for the time being, though, and this is another discussion, String Theory is subject to more than a little bit of doubt and reworking in the community at present. Likewise, though, if one theorizes an entity that brought all of existence, space/time into existence, a good place to start is that such a being is by definition outside of those things. As such, experimentation to determine said entity's existence is beyond the realm of science, for the time being.

I mean, I'm fairly certain that I could come up with math that "proves the existence of 'God'," and that I could come up with math that "disproves the existence of 'God'," if I were so inclined.

I also can come up with math that proves conclusively that when no one is looking at it, the moon does not exist....:lfao:

 

[WC_lun]

I really don't have an issue with someone believing in unicorns. As long as non-belief in unicorns isn't a basis for ill treatment. A person's belief or non-belief does not effect my life at all. However, if a person takes action against others based upon that belief, then there is a problem.

 

[DragonWC]

So if an idea can not be 'conceptualized' then it is true. Ok

You do not understand what 'evidence' is, I'm afraid. What was supposedly verified that is impossible?


and how do you know this? We are all connected Biologically to each other, Chemically to the Earth, and Atomically to the Universe. What more do you want?!

(each paragraph address each question)

Ideas can be conceptualize hence they are ideas. I'm not talking about ideas.

Verified by each and everyone subjectively but impossible in terms of tangible proof. These people range from all occupations. Authors. Psychologists. Computer engineers etc. and fron all different cultural backgrounds.

State of sadmadhi where it is possible to feel this connection in oppose to knowing it from an external point of view. It was a shared consicousness experience.

And to answer the question about war. Its not human nature that there are wars but human ignorance.

I already know what im trying to convey. So if you want to know don't assume. They are not beliefs.

I dont think i will share further. If anyone sees. Good.

And to correct your mistake. if i know something and trying to share. Its not a lack of belief that you have but a rather resistant disbelief.

The state of openess is a nice quality to have.

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[fangjian]

And to correct your mistake. if i know something and trying to share. Its not a lack of belief that you have but a rather resistant disbelief.
The state of openess is a nice quality to have.

I believe things when there is sufficient evidence to suggest their existence. I am very open to new ideas, really. NONE of my beliefs are set in stone. When you are exposed to a claim, you either believe it or you lack belief. A lack of belief is a default position in lieu of evidence. I just don't believe something because 'someone typed it on MartialTalk'. Just like if I told you, I was abducted by aliens from Andromeda Galaxy, you would have a lack of belief as well. Unless I presented evidence that suggested my story was true.

 

[DragonWC]

I believe things when there is sufficient evidence to suggest their existence. I am very open to new ideas, really. NONE of my beliefs are set in stone. When you are exposed to a claim, you either believe it or you lack belief. A lack of belief is a default position in lieu of evidence. I just don't believe something because 'someone typed it on MartialTalk'. Just like if I told you, I was abducted by aliens from Andromeda Galaxy, you would have a lack of belief as well. Unless I presented evidence that suggested my story was true.

I never ask u to believe nor was it my intention to make someone believe or disbelief. Im saying its possible to know and that is within one self. Jesus have said the kingdom of heaven is within. Budhha have said everyone is a budhha. God is not apart from you.

Do you need to proof yourself?

Even if i have a lack of belief if you were to say that. my lack of belief would prompt me to say how? Where? When? Before i start to adamently reject everything.

When you said your beliefs are not set in stone and that it may change thats good. That is the subjective inward journey. Knowing what is not essentially you. Then you know god. Which is knowing what of you is enternal. U can substitute the god for absolute truth. If you are not of a religious back ground.

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[DragonWC]

I never ask u to believe nor was it my intention to make someone believe or disbelief. Im saying its possible to know and that is within one self. Jesus have said the kingdom of heaven is within. Budhha have said everyone is a budhha. God is not apart from you.

Do you need to proof yourself?

Even if i have a lack of belief if you were to say that. my lack of belief would prompt me to say how? Where? When? Before i start to adamently reject everything.

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[DragonWC]

Know that Faith is simply just that. Moving within you to verified for yourself what is true and if its tested would stay the same no matter what. If you are able to know that beliefs can be change then know that no matter how deeply a belief may be rooted it can be change albeit sometimes very slowly. Now whats next moving subjective we bump into our emotions our desires. Negativity. Ego. Find the truth about that also.

In that way faith is very much an inner science and science an outer faith. Both is looking for what is true.



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[Tez3]

Am I the only one not have the foggiest idea what DragonWC is talking about?

 

[Sukerkin]

Am I the only one not have the foggiest idea what DragonWC is talking about?

Whilst I am familiar with the mode of his speech from too much contact people a bit too deeply 'into' the New Age (and their being a bit too deeply into various herbs too), I am afraid that the circular logic presented spins my head and I now generally move on as I know I'm not going to make sense of it.

I mean no offence to the deeply religious here on the MT board but it is often the way when 'faith' in the unprovable replaces critical scepticism - the phrasing sounds grand but there is no weight to the message. The same thing sometimes happens with high-end theoretical physics, for me at least, when my linguistically wired brain can't handle the mathematics presented :lol:.

 

[elder999]

I believe things when there is sufficient evidence to suggest their existence. I am very open to new ideas, really. NONE of my beliefs are set in stone. When you are exposed to a claim, you either believe it or you lack belief. A lack of belief is a default position in lieu of evidence. I just don't believe something because 'someone typed it on MartialTalk'. Just like if I told you, I was abducted by aliens from Andromeda Galaxy, you would have a lack of belief as well. Unless I presented evidence that suggested my story was true.

Are you saying, then, that you don't believe the story of my vision quest?

 

[fangjian]

Are you saying, then, that you don't believe the story of my vision quest?

I believe you. I don't know with certainty of course. Someone on martialtalk told me a story that 'He was in the wild with a friend and during their excursion, he 'talked to the bear', and it left them alone. He and his friend saw the evidence of the bears existence ( bear track etc ). This is plausible. If the bear spoke English back to you and was actually possessed by a god, I wouldn't believe you. But all that happened really was 'you and a friend were in the wild and you saw a bear and talked to it'. Right?

 

[elder999]

If the bear spoke English back to you and was actually possessed by a god, I wouldn't believe you. But all that happened really was 'you and a friend were in the wild and you saw a bear and talked to it'. Right?

Well, no, te bear and I had a conversation. I was in the wild by myself;Danny was only checking on me from the bottom of the hill, and saw the bear-I didn't know he was there for that event until it was time to come down, and he showed me the tracks and scat, and that he had seen the bear and called his wife on his cellphone to bring the rifle (the place was very near his home, in Cuba, NM).

As for what choose to believe and choose not to believe......well, that's your choice....:lfao:

 

[fangjian]

Well, no, te bear and I had a conversation. I was in the wild by myself;Danny was only checking on me from the bottom of the hill, and saw the bear-I didn't know he was there for that event until it was time to come down, and he showed me the tracks and scat, and that he had seen the bear and called his wife on his cellphone to bring the rifle (the place was very near his home, in Cuba, NM).

As for what choose to believe and choose not to believe......well, that's your choice....:lfao:

A 'conversation'? How did the bear communicate with you?


Also, I was gonna post a the link below and make a new thread, but reconsidered. The following link is about news regarding the 'evolution of the bible'. Check it out, if interested.
http://news.yahoo.com/jerusalem-scholars-trace-bibles-evolution-092932128.html

 

[Tez3]

A 'conversation'? How did the bear communicate with you?


Also, I was gonna post a the link below and make a new thread, but reconsidered. The following link is about news regarding the 'evolution of the bible'. Check it out, if interested.
http://news.yahoo.com/jerusalem-scholars-trace-bibles-evolution-092932128.html

On a purely prosaic level, animals have quite telling body language and can read ours quite well so it's quite possible to have communications with a lot of animals. On a spiritual level, why not? As Shakespeare said ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

 

[fangjian]

On a purely prosaic level, animals have quite telling body language and can read ours quite well so it's quite possible to have communications with a lot of animals. On a spiritual level, why not? As Shakespeare said ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

If I define 'conversation' as ANY communication then yeah. 'I pet my cat, and it rubbed its head up against my arm.' We just had a conversation.

Define spiritual level?

 

[Tez3]

If I define 'conversation' as ANY communication then yeah. 'I pet my cat, and it rubbed its head up against my arm.' We just had a conversation.

Define spiritual level?

I see you know little about cats if you think you weren't conversing and the cat doesn't have you right where it wants you.
Does conversation have to be speech, if so then deaf people never converse.

Spiritual...anything that comes out of a bottle labelled distilled in Scotland.

 

[fangjian]

I see you know little about cats if you think you weren't conversing and the cat doesn't have you right where it wants you.
Does conversation have to be speech, if so then deaf people never converse.

No, we did communicate with eachother. It's obvious. I'm just asking Elder999 to define conversation, 'cause it can mean a lot of things. Him yelling at the bear, and the bear coming over and mauling his arm off could be a conversation. We use words and they have tons of meanings.

Spiritual...anything that comes out of a bottle labelled distilled in Scotland.

I can't say I've ever gotten drunk with my cats. Oh wait a minute. When I got home from the war ages ago, my wife and I smoked some weed and gave our cats catnip. Very amusing

 

[elder999]

A 'conversation'? How did the bear communicate with you?

You'd have to ask the bear that. :lfao:

Seriously. The bear comes up. I say "thank you," and the bear answers something to the effect that it was bored.

I asked a question. The bear answered.

I asked another question. The bear answered.

I made a statement. THe bear agreed.

The bear also let me know that I should pledge to Sundance, something I don't think I'd considered at all before that point. Itwas at this point that the bear sat down-Danny confirms that the bear sat down, just after he called his wife for his rifle, and just before he tried calling her to tell her to forget it. :lfao:

The bear told me a few other things, and the bear gave me some sound financial advice. :lfao:

A 'conversation'? How did the bear communicate with you?

Like I said, you'd have to ask the bear that. I honestly don't know. Sounds like the kind of question I'd ask as a scientist, but I wasn't exactly acting as a scientist, standing there naked, shivering and starving, was I? :lfao:

 

[Ken Morgan]

Sorry elder....I have too....

 

[elder999]

Sorry elder....I have too....

Now that right there is just plain ignorant. Or didn't you notice how I've avoided the word "talk?" :lfao: