2 Hour Intro to Wing Chun Class

[Hazardi172]

You've being arrogant. You don't know an answer that can counter mine.

This is not true, there are many ways for you to earn interest on money you can access quickly. Putting it in the bank is the last thing you should do at the present time

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I found a place that offers the insurance for $350 per year. Someone on one of the other threads directed me to them.

PM me with that info, please.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is not true, there are many ways for you to earn interest on money you can access quickly. Putting it in the bank is the last thing you should do at the present time

Care to share just one that's a good idea, and which exists in the US?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why would you lose students by removing charges when they don't attend class and by removing pay in advance?

Because paying for a month is a commitment and most people will try to take as many classes as possible within that time period. They will show up even when they really don't feel like practicing because they know they have paid money for the month and want to get the most out of that investment.

Would you pay for a month and not show up? .

When you pay per class then you have nothing to lose and no incentive to show up even on the days when you don't feel like it. What you see as a benefit to a student who doesn't have to pay when they don't attend class. I see as a risk for that student of getting lazy with their training. 1 missed day turns into 3 missed days and then it turns into only seeing the student 3 days in one month to no days.

Say the same student tries my martial art school and pays $50 a month for 20 classes. That student will show up at my school but will not show up at your school because they have nothing invested in your school. No loss for not being at your school, no commitment.

Paying once every month is also easier for the student than paying every time he or she shows up. The student pays on one day of the month and the rest of the days he or she focused on training and not paying to train.

My school charges $50 a month for individuals. Students pay during the first week of the month. This means that my students can spend more time focused on training than feeling like someone is taking money from them each time they show up. Paying for class attendance would mean every time I see a student on training day they owe me $2.50 and every time that they see me they pay me $2.50. It's hard to think of someone as friend or a mentor if you are always giving that person $2.50 every time you should up to the school for training.

Nothing screams business as "pay me every time you see me." It's not a good feeling for people who are interested in building student and instructor relationships.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's a good solution for folks who are going to be out most of a month

This is a small group in comparison to the majority who attends the schools. For people like that, an exception can be made instead of trying to make it the norm.

Something like that gives us, as instructors, an opportunity to show students that we are willing to work with them so that they can train at your school. This is where the instructor becomes less like business and more like a caring person which in turn can strengthen the relationship.

If you normally have 5 classes, then make 3 of the classes regular classes and 2 of the classes special class. For example, my school does 5 classes a week. 3 regular classes, 1 sparring class, and 1 day for extra training if the student missed a lot of classes. The extra training day also can be used like a personal training opportunity if 1 or 2 people show up. This is a bonus for the student because learning is usually accelerated for the student.

Here's how it looks when you market it.
School A
Trains 5 days a week
Students have 5 regular classes

School B
Trains 5 days a week.
Students have 3 regular classes, 1 sparring class and 1 day extra for students who need additional training or for students who may have missed some of the regular classes during the week.

Both schools train the same amount of days but School B looks like it has more options and it appears to have a special day of training set aside for students who may need additional training.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Most folks attend 6-12 classes per month. The monthly fee is usually lower than that many classes of individual class payments. And people who haven't paid in advance are statistically less likely to show up for a class, which makes class planning less predictable.

It not only makes class planning less predictable, but it makes paying the rent less predictable as well.

 

[JowGaWolf]

PM me with that info, please.

I would like to know this as well.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why would anyone have their money in place not earning interest

If you are only making enough money to cover costs, then what interest are you talking about?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is a small group in comparison to the majority who attends the schools. For people like that, an exception can be made instead of trying to make it the norm.

Something like that gives us, as instructors, an opportunity to show students that we are willing to work with them so that they can train at your school. This is where the instructor becomes less like business and more like a caring person which in turn can strengthen the relationship.

If you normally have 5 classes, then make 3 of the classes regular classes and 2 of the classes special class. For example, my school does 5 classes a week. 3 regular classes, 1 sparring class, and 1 day for extra training if the student missed a lot of classes. The extra training day also can be used like a personal training opportunity if 1 or 2 people show up. This is a bonus for the student because learning is usually accelerated for the student.

Here's how it looks when you market it.
School A
Trains 5 days a week
Students have 5 regular classes

School B
Trains 5 days a week.
Students have 3 regular classes, 1 sparring class and 1 day extra for students who need additional training or for students who may have missed some of the regular classes during the week.

Both schools train the same amount of days but School B looks like it has more options and it appears to have a special day of training set aside for students who may need additional training.

I just have a more limited availability. I teach 2 classes a week. I added a "study group" session one other day. If I'm in town, it's a class. If not, the most senior student available keeps things safe and people just practice what they have. That limited availability is what originally drove me to have a per-class fee available (at the time, I was only able to offer one class a week). All of my students are currently over 40, and most have travel commitments either for work or for their kids' sports, so they have periods where they miss entire weeks. The per-class also solves them having to decide if it's worth paying for a month when they're not around for 2 weeks of it.

If I had more availability, the per-class wouldn't be an issue. My instructor never offered it, but I had 6 days a week of classes to choose from. If I was traveling every week that month (happened a lot back then), I could usually still manage to make 8 classes in the month.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't really need much in the way of equipment. Maybe 2-3 pairs of focus mitts. Since the place I am renting would not be exclusively mine, I would not install anything like a wooden dummy or anything like that. Also, not for nothing, but since there is an MMA class there, I would also be able to share some of the gear they already have there.

Your situation would be different were resources are available. But when you have a place where it's just you then the 3 pairs of focus mits aren't going to be enough as you grow. In reference to Hazards reasoning of only charging just enough to cover costs means that a person would not be able to earn more than the rent costs. This also means that the more people attend the less hazard will have to charge, in order to avoid making a profit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you are only making enough money to cover costs, then what interest are you talking about?

He's suggesting that the students could make some significant financial gain by paying weekly. There's no financial vehicle I can think of that would make that a viable option for the amount of time and effort it would take, to say nothing of the fact that managing that much payment interaction would mean more hours for the instructor, so he'd charge more, which would entirely obliterate an supposed gains.

And he continues to ignore that students CHOOSE monthly when both monthly and per-class are available.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You situation would be different were resources are available. But when you have a place where it's just you then the 3 pairs of focus mits aren't going to be enough as you grow. In reference to Hazards reasoning of only charging just enough to cover costs means that a person would not be able to earn more than the rent costs. This also means that the more people attend the less hazard will have to charge, in order to avoid making a profit.

Agreed. It also assumes the teaching becomes less valuable if the teacher is good enough to attract more students. Nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense.

 

[wingchun100]

You situation would be different were resources are available. But when you have a place where it's just you then the 3 pairs of focus mits aren't going to be enough as you grow. In reference to Hazards reasoning of only charging just enough to cover costs means that a person would not be able to earn more than the rent costs. This also means that the more people attend the less hazard will have to charge, in order to avoid making a profit.

I thought you were referring to me because I have certain people blocked. It leads to confusion, but also to being annoyed a lot less.

 

[Hazardi172]

managing that much payment interaction would mean more hours for the instructor, so he'd charge more, which would entirely obliterate an supposed gains

It doesn't require a lot of management to charge peope when they show up

students CHOOSE monthly when both monthly and per-class are available.

Depends on the type of student. In my experience pay monthly is offputting to the kind of student I want.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't really need much in the way of equipment. Maybe 2-3 pairs of focus mitts. Since the place I am renting would not be exclusively mine, I would not install anything like a wooden dummy or anything like that. Also, not for nothing, but since there is an MMA class there, I would also be able to share some of the gear they already have there.

As you have more options, start thinking long-term. When you can take on a space, you'll suddenly have a lot of new options for equipment. Saving up from early in the program will make that an easy step. And there are definitely bits and pieces of equipment you may decide to pick up along the way to make improvements in the program. In my case, I picked up some really inexpensive sparring gear so brand new students don't have to buy any. Eventually, they'll need their own, but I can spend a few bucks and take care of all the new folks until that time. I carry a bag of gear in my car, and I fish out what I think I'll need before each class. Occasionally, I'll drag the whole bag in, if I'm not sure what approach I want to take that day.

 

[wingchun100]

He's suggesting that the students could make some significant financial gain by paying weekly. There's no financial vehicle I can think of that would make that a viable option for the amount of time and effort it would take, to say nothing of the fact that managing that much payment interaction would mean more hours for the instructor, so he'd charge more, which would entirely obliterate an supposed gains.

And he continues to ignore that students CHOOSE monthly when both monthly and per-class are available.

Weekly payments would be a nightmare.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I just have a more limited availability. I teach 2 classes a week. I added a "study group" session one other day. If I'm in town, it's a class. If not, the most senior student available keeps things safe and people just practice what they have. That limited availability is what originally drove me to have a per-class fee available (at the time, I was only able to offer one class a week). All of my students are currently over 40, and most have travel commitments either for work or for their kids' sports, so they have periods where they miss entire weeks. The per-class also solves them having to decide if it's worth paying for a month when they're not around for 2 weeks of it.

If I had more availability, the per-class wouldn't be an issue. My instructor never offered it, but I had 6 days a week of classes to choose from. If I was traveling every week that month (happened a lot back then), I could usually still manage to make 8 classes in the month.

That's definitely a different situation because of your availability. A second instructor would help to provide the classes for the days that you aren't there. This will allow you to attract more students who can attend regularly and don't travel. This way you can cover your costs with the regular students and those who can only make it a few times a month can have a separate plan.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It doesn't require a lot of management to charge peope when they show up

Tracking 10 people's payments, doing the accounting of perhaps 80 payments a month (rather than 10) and the few minutes before each class to actually handle the payments. That time adds up. And it either takes time from teaching (bad for students) or takes time from something else in life (so it should be compensated).

Depends on the type of student. In my experience pay monthly is offputting to the kind of student I want.

Again, in the culture you're in. Don't assume you know what happens elsewhere.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's definitely a different situation because of your availability. A second instructor would help to provide the classes for the days that you aren't there. This will allow you to attract more students who can attend regularly and don't travel. This way you can cover your costs with the regular students and those who can only make it a few times a month can have a separate plan.

Unfortunately, there's no second instructor available. Even if I wanted a mainline NGA instructor, the closest are in one of the other cities in the area (more than an hour away) and either don't train NGA anymore, or already teach somewhere. If I had a second instructor, I'd actually probably get them to teach kids classes, then we could afford to consider our own space.

 

[JowGaWolf]

He's suggesting that the students could make some significant financial gain by paying weekly

But people take martial arts for martial arts and not a financial gain. If anything they don't mind paying for quality training. If the school is really good then the student will be getting a lot more than training out of being a part of the school. Just like you and I were talking about the value of the social interaction. Other things like staying fit, learning self-defense, getting stronger, gaining confidence, being able to compete in tournaments, making friends, having cookouts, school trips. If the school is full of adults then things like traveling as a group to tourist places, are things that would be worth the small price of paying membership fees. People also know that membership fees help support the school, without the fees, there is no school.