15yo Kills Herself After Being Bullied

[grydth]

I signed mine up for judo, then (without telling his mother), took him in the basement and had him practice clotheslining me across the chest for 1/2 an hour with instructions to do the same around the head of his tormentor the next time.

Seemed to have worked.

What we did is of course frowned upon (his mother was livid with me), on the other hand what else do you do?

Aside from "Karate Kid" mythology, martial arts lessons can be very useful in removing kids from being beaten by bullies. This produces other challenges, though...

One is the absurd "Zero Tolerance" (read Zero Justice) policies that punish the defender along with the bully.... ridiculous..... although the school here appeared to have a "Complete Tolerance" policy.

Another is that you have a very formidable young person.... and I had to use considerable efforts last year to prevent my 14 year old from completely destroying another girl who was stalking/harassing/lying about her..... my daughter has a future, unlike the loser, and foregoing force was the correct path...

But there's a huge difference when your child knows she could obliterate the bully, but is strong enough to resist it... and when a child feels powerless....

 

[d1jinx]

I guess those times I drove over the bridge and saw someone there and screamed "JUMP" as I drove by wasn't too smart.....

 

[grydth]

I guess those times I drove over the bridge and saw someone there and screamed "JUMP" as I drove by wasn't too smart.....

She didn't jump off a bridge. She hung herself at home.

Her 12 year old sister found her body.

The teens accused thought it was a big joke, too, and posted all sorts of comments on line.

 

[MJS]

Growing up in the 70s and 80s, it seemed schools took very little concern about the bullying taking place. Having a step-son that just entered high school, it seems bullying is kind of turned a blind eye to even now.



I sometimes think adolescents are complete sociopaths.



Maybe Gordon can share more light on how it is monitored and handled currently in the greater Toronto area.

Funny, I was just contacted on Facebook by a girl in my k-8 school, who was unmercifully bullied, telling me that I was quite kind to her back then, I responded back that I felt a bit guilty about not standing up to her worst tormentor back then.

I've been out of school for quite a while now and while there was bullying, I dont recall hearing much about people killing themselves over it. Especially with people not hesitating to sue, you'd figure the schools wouldn't turn a blind eye, out of fear of getting sued. I know that if I had kids, and they were being picked on, or Godforbid, killed themselves because of bullying, there would certainly be hell to pay.

 

[d1jinx]

She didn't jump off a bridge. She hung herself at home.

Her 12 year old sister found her body.

The teens accused thought it was a big joke, too, and posted all sorts of comments on line.

POINT IS....
people do dumb stuff and dont consider the consequenses.

 

[grydth]

Really? One would never have gotten such a "point" without assistance and explanation....

At first...it seemed so much like the malicious on line postings the bullies made after her death...

 

[MJS]

When I was about 7, I was attacked by a couple of young teenage boys--verbally and with thrown rocks that actually drew blood. My father chased them down, grabbed them by their necks (one per hand; probably gave them a good shaking or ten, as well as a major hollering at), and marched them to their parents' house. He had a few words with their parents, who were mortified. This was back in the 1970s. The parents didn't even try to argue about it, just took them inside and promised my dad that he would never see them do something like that again. They made good on that promise, too; I don't recall seeing those boys outdoors without an adult chaperone for the next several years, after which they moved. My dad may not have always handled every situation correctly, but I think he aced that one. For a kid getting victimized, feeling his or her parent/s will protect them is part of what is needed to keep them stable. I wonder if this girl felt that way? I doubt it.

Not nearly as bad as what happened to you, but, I too was picked on. I recall one day, I was on lunch, and stepped into the hall to use the payphone to call home. While I was on the phone with my Mom, one of the usual suspects started his crap. My Father came down went into the office, and said that he wanted to speak to the principal. They told him he was in a meeting. Needless to say, he didn't buy the story, went to the door, and walked right in....to find the principal sitting at his desk.

Lets just say that from that day on, that particular person didn't bother me from that day on.

 

[grydth]

Not nearly as bad as what happened to you, but, I too was picked on. I recall one day, I was on lunch, and stepped into the hall to use the payphone to call home. While I was on the phone with my Mom, one of the usual suspects started his crap. My Father came down went into the office, and said that he wanted to speak to the principal. They told him he was in a meeting. Needless to say, he didn't buy the story, went to the door, and walked right in....to find the principal sitting at his desk.

Lets just say that from that day on, that particular person didn't bother me from that day on.

My father did something similar to Stacy's when the local lunatic's dog was let loose and came after me...... dog never ran loose again.

My daughter, as I said in an earlier post, has the ability to defend herself but I convince her not to unless necessary. On one occasion I contacted the princepal and she asked if my daughter needed any type of counselling. I calmly explained that my kid was fine; I was actually concerned that, if confronted my multiple girls, she would go through them like a knife through hot butter; I was concerned, I said, that the nasty girl might be very seriously injured.

Those girls would take detours to avoid my kid after that - and she never had to hit even one of them.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Parents need to be involved in their childrens lives, that's their job.

If they are the parents of bullies, they need to nip it in the bud as early as possible and reform the behaviour. If they are the parents of the victim they need to be positive to their kids, ride the schools ***, contact the bullies parents, get them into self defence, essentially whatever is necessary to stop the **** from happening again.

I don't know why so many people still think that being bullied is part of growing up, its not.

 

[Steve]

I think that things have gotten MUCH worse in recent years. You didn't hear nearly as much about suicides and serious problems 10 years ago. Not that bullying wasn't as bad...but now technology has propelled it to a new level. When I was in school, I was tormeted horribly. I hated my life and feared going to school every day....but when I left, it was over. I could go home and be away from it.

NOW, you go home, get on the internet and you're not away from it. There is facebook, myspace, e-mail, webpages, and on and on and on....if you're a bullied kid, you are assaulted with it 24 hours a day, there is no escape. they can get to you anywhere. God forbid there is a computer hacker in the group of tormenters....It is no wonder that kids kill themselves - that is one of the main reasons for suicide, seeing no hope, no escape, and no chance for your situation to improve.

Suicide remains a big problem for teens. It's not a new issue; rather, it's STILL a problem. Bullies aren't new and the effects on teens who are developing self image are often sadly predictable. I had a friend shoot himself in my sophomore year. He was gay and didn't want his parents to find out. He got bullied, too. I still feel guilty for being oblivious to the pain he was in.

Suicide rates are, as far as I can tell, actually lower now than 10 years ago, and much lower than they were in the 70s/80s. According to the CDC, the rates have fallen overall since 1991. You can get custom reports on mortality at the CDC from 1999 through 2006, as well. Interesting stuff.

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/suicide/statistics/trends02.html

http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/fatal.html

While it's easy to see that we need to support the kids who are bullied, I think that it's just as important to identify the needs of the kids who are compelled to bully. I mean, we know that kids who bully often do so due to low self esteem, bully issues themselves (they are prey themselves to bullies), issues in their home, legitimate mental health issues or something along those lines. If the goal is to stop bullying in school, nipping it in the bud is critical. Help the victims to stop being victims, but break the cycle of bullying for kids who are beginning to act out in that way.

 

[grydth]

Parents need to be involved in their childrens lives, that's their job.

If they are the parents of bullies, they need to nip it in the bud as early as possible and reform the behaviour. If they are the parents of the victim they need to be positive to their kids, ride the schools ***, contact the bullies parents, get them into self defence, essentially whatever is necessary to stop the **** from happening again.

I don't know why so many people still think that being bullied is part of growing up, its not.

You know, Ken, I think the bullies learn a lot of the bad behavior at home. One of the bad kids I mentioned earlier - turns out she was regularly beaten by her nutty father; mom never did anything about it.

Problem is, as a society we then let the products of this ysfunction wreak havoc on others outside the home.

We do need to reinforce with our kids that they can come to us and that suicide is never the answer.

 

[Steve]

POINT IS....
people do dumb stuff and dont consider the consequenses.

While d1jinx might have said it more tactfully, the point made is an important one. I was mercilessly picked on as a kid. I was smart, had red hair, a smart mouth and was the new kid at school almost every year. I was a pretty mean kid by the time 6th grade rolled around. We moved from Houston to Austin and I decided that I wasn't going to be bullied anymore. I considered it self-defense, and I went out of my way to bully the bullies in the 6th and 7th grade. I looked for them and tormented them ruthlessly, using all of the verbal skills I'd gained from constant bullying from 2nd grade through 5th grade, getting into fights almost every day. While I grew out of it in high school and became my current lovable self, it's only as an adult looking back that I can see how much a part of the cycle I was. I have no doubt at all that some of those kids from Austin, TX remember ME as the bully.

So, again, while d1jinx might have said it better, people do grow up. I'm sure we can all think back to times as kids when we still blush with shame at the things we did.

 

[Steve]

You know, Ken, I think the bullies learn a lot of the bad behavior at home. One of the bad kids I mentioned earlier - turns out she was regularly beaten by her nutty father; mom never did anything about it.

Problem is, as a society we then let the products of this ysfunction wreak havoc on others outside the home.

We do need to reinforce with our kids that they can come to us and that suicide is never the answer.

Exactly. That's part of what I was getting at. If we know why the child is bullying other children, doesn't that child deserve help too? In many cases, the bully isn't the problem. Rather, the bully is a symptom of a larger problem that can be solved.

 

[MJS]

Parents need to be involved in their childrens lives, that's their job.

If they are the parents of bullies, they need to nip it in the bud as early as possible and reform the behaviour. If they are the parents of the victim they need to be positive to their kids, ride the schools ***, contact the bullies parents, get them into self defence, essentially whatever is necessary to stop the **** from happening again.

I don't know why so many people still think that being bullied is part of growing up, its not.

QFT! My Mother always says, "Kids will learn what they live" and I believe that 100%. Parents need to be involved with their kids, know what their kids do, and teach them right from wrong. Then again, if the parents are just as bad as the kids.....

 

[Gordon Nore]

Growing up in the 70s and 80s, it seemed schools took very little concern about the bullying taking place. Having a step-son that just entered high school, it seems bullying is kind of turned a blind eye to even now.

I was bullied daily during grade seven and eight: Taunts, being shoved, stuff taken. It was an all-male Catholic school, and there was a kind of "boys will be boys" mentality about it. At some point my parents understood the frustration I was feeling and encouraged me to fight back. I did not learn until years later that they went to the principal and my homeroom teacher and informed them that as they didn't like fighting, I had been told to fight back if I deemed necessary. So a couple of times, right in front of my teachers, kids taunted me and I went after them.

Never forget one day, a kid called me (******, queer, gay boy, or whatever), and I launched into him, much like the kid in A Christmas Story, fists and obscenities flying. I was no fighter, but I had passion. Brother Arthur, a legendary teacher at De La Salle, calls the two of us into his room for an explanation. Brother was a "spare the rod" kind of teacher, and I looked him square in the eye -- I was twelve -- and told him, "That bastard's been calling me a ****** all year, and I'm not putting up with it." He was thunderstruck, but I didn't get a whoopin' for it. He just told me to sit down.

Maybe Gordon can share more light on how it is monitored and handled currently in the greater Toronto area.

I can't speak authoritatively on policy. The Toronto District School Board tabled a report and is making policy following the shooting death of a student at school -- the first time this has happened in Toronto -- in 2007. That incident, like the one described in the OP, indicated that there were gaps in communication. This is a matter of public record, so I don't mind posting the content: http://www.tdsb.on.ca/_site/ViewItem.asp?siteid=9998&menuid=9956&pageid=8753

Policy aside, there needs to be an atmosphere of trust, in which students report what is going on without feeling they are "snitching." "Snitches get stitches" is a phrase known to most school children -- you and I know there's a world of difference between tattling for a reward or to curry favour and reporting on an issue that affects the safety of a child or a child's classmate. Unfortunately, a gangsta wannabe culture has permeated our children's consciousness, and they have trouble making that important distinction.

Schools and parents have to work on this together. It's very hard for parents to hear that their child has bullied another. It is even more frustrating for parents whose children have been bullied. Without going into specifics, I've learned from my colleagues to be astute to changes in attitude or behaviour and to be aware of any little personal information about a student that might be floating around. Even the most benign info about a student can become an instrument of torment. In the facebook/text message world, it spreads like wildfire, gets twisted around, and sticks around for years.

As parents, we just flat out have to learn to say, "No," to our kids. No, you can't watch that show. No, you can't have a facebook account. No, you can't talk to adults any old way you feel like. Kids see an awful lot of bad behaviour modeled -- look at the comments on virtually any youtube channel -- and incivil behaviour has become celebrated in our culture.

A few thoughts for now as I ponder this thread.

 

[Haakon]

My son was being bullied a bit in grade school, and the school tried to stop it but the other kid kept it up. I signed my son up for boxing lessons, imagine my surprise when the bullying ended pretty quickly after that....sure my son got suspended once or twice, but no one ever bullied him or his friends again.

I don't doubt it, bullies are cowards at heart and even a small beating sticks with them a long time. I wasn't bullied in school, but did have the school bully try picking on me - once. It made enough of an impression on him that two years later he tried picking on my younger brother, until he found out he was my brother, that ended that bit of bullying.

A girl on a local school bus recently had some money taken from her by some other children, around $20. Her parent called the parents of the other children and one of the parents said "that will teach her not to bring money on the bus, she should have taken care of it better". It still pisses me off thinking about it! Maybe someone will take their cars and tell them the same thing. The school did nothing, the police did nothing, and the parents can't do anything or they'll get arrested.

It's tough to be a parent these days, to many absentee parents letting their children run wild (that Lord of the Flies reference was so accurate!), and too many laws/lawyers preventing involved, concerned, parents from doing what needs to be done to stop things like this.

 

[Blade96]

Lets be honest, some adults still bully at work. They ignore people, talk behind their backs at the very least, don't invite them when they go out for lunch with everyone else...etc. It might not be physical anymore, but i'm sure it still hurts.

People do that **** with me all the time. Even though we're all adults. I live it every day.

I try not to do it though. My most recent moment was several weeks ago now when my friend passed his Sandan test (yes I will mention him again because its a good example) and I was standing with him and there were two white belts there too. I said to sandan I will take him out for a beer for passing his grading. Guess what? No body else did! or even invited him. FFS, passing your 3rd degree BB is a big deal! Even though the rest of em went to the bar too. So we went out and I bought him the beer. There were 2 white belts standing with us at the time I said I'd take him out. They knew me, but not Sandan very well. I didnt leave white belts out! I invited them as well. and we all went.

Cause lets face it. Its downright rude to make plans in front of people and not invite them. and people like I said still pull that **** with me all the time. I'm a total veteran when it comes to being abused.

As for bullicide (as its called now when people kill themselves cause of bullying) I've also been there. I've been a victim of death threats. I've had people threten to drive by my house and fire a rifle through it at me. I've had people try to set me on fire. I've scars on my wrists from where I cut myself. I've also attempted suicide because of it. I've been beaten up. I've suffered it all. All happened when I was an abused and terrified teen at jr high and high school.

People who say its a part of growing up have obviously never suffered it, or else been much involved in it.

Y'know, denial aint just a river in Egypt, people!

 

[Ken Morgan]

People do that **** with me all the time. Even though we're all adults. I live it every day.

I try not to do it though. My most recent moment was several weeks ago now when my friend passed his Sandan test (yes I will mention him again because its a good example) and I was standing with him and there were two white belts there too. I said to sandan I will take him out for a beer for passing his grading. Guess what? No body else did! or even invited him. FFS, passing your 3rd degree BB is a big deal! Even though the rest of em went to the bar too. So we went out and I bought him the beer. There were 2 white belts standing with us at the time I said I'd take him out. They knew me, but not Sandan very well. I didnt leave white belts out! I invited them as well. and we all went.

Cause lets face it. Its downright rude to make plans in front of people and not invite them. and people like I said still pull that **** with me all the time. I'm a total veteran when it comes to being abused.

As for bullicide (as its called now when people kill themselves cause of bullying) I've also been there. I've been a victim of death threats. I've had people threten to drive by my house and fire a rifle through it at me. I've had people try to set me on fire. I've scars on my wrists from where I cut myself. I've also attempted suicide because of it. I've been beaten up. I've suffered it all. All happened when I was an abused and terrified teen at jr high and high school.

People who say its a part of growing up have obviously never suffered it, or else been much involved in it.

Y'know, denial aint just a river in Egypt, people!

:asian:

 

[Blade96]

That's why I havent got a high school diploma. with the last bit of thinking I had left I had to save myself. I quit school in grade 10 at age 16 in 1995.

Everyone says parents need to be more involved, but how can they, when most victims - like myself - hide the abuse. and dont tell anyone. They blame themselves; they think its their fault. That happened to me as well.

Sometime later, Reena Virk was murdered. My thoughts at that time when that case broke was 'That could have been me.'

and going to university was extremely difficult for me. School in my mind was a dirty word back in 1999. so i was absolutely terrified to go to university.

Thankfully I now have a university degree and am launched on my MA career and discovered my talent for and love for Shotokan. Its helping me become the person I never was - strong, confident, not being afraid. like I always wanted to be.

A quote I got from a MA aikido sensei at another board is one I love: "Become strong so you need not fear others; become compassionate so that others need not fear you."

I think it fits here.

 

[Ramirez]

I don't recall bullying at university , I enjoyed university much more than high school. Maybe because to get into university you have to be at a certain level of intelligence, maturity or maybe simply because of the age where you can be tried as an adult.