# Oh sweet seduction, thy name is...Glock



## Carol (Jul 30, 2006)

Firesticks!

This weekend I tried something completely new and completely different.  

I have never been around firearms before.  I've haven't had much of an interest in owning a gun, but have wanted to learn how to safely handle one should the need arise.  Plus, I have to admit to being a bit curious as to whether I could actually bring myself to fire a gun and do so with any degree of accuracy.

The first step of course was finding a good teacher...and...thanks to MartialTalk, I did exactly that.   Andy Moynihan lives about 20 minutes away from me, has his NRA cert, plus we share the same interest in the Filipino arts...and in an IM convo, Andy invited me up to his range.

It hit us both in the beginning...here are two people that talked to one another but never met face to face and, what's the first thing we do?  Go use deadly weapons.  Of course.  Doesn't everyone?  

We started at the rifle range where I tried my hand at shooting targets at 25, 50, and 75 yards.  I didn't make any 100 or 100+ yard attempts, that will be a test for another day.  The rifle was a Winchester .45, I forget the exact model (Andy?  Help?).  

It was an interesting and sobering experience.   I was surprised at how much my breathing moved my sight around.   I remember a past acquaintance who had told me the athleticism in marksmanship comes from the ability to slow one's heart rate and breathing in order to get a better shot.  The gent had a varsity letter in the sport, I believed him at the time.  Recalling his words, I tried to grasp just how the heck I was supposed to slow my own heart rate.  

My own art, Kenpo, does not actively teach chi.  The NRA safety course certainly doesn't either.  While I'm admittedly ignorant of the internal arts, I can't help but wonder if I was training myself how to root while trying to steady my sights on the target.  I found myself getting calmer with each shot.

Together we shot about 50 rounds or so on the rifle range.  After a quick break away from the sun for some rehydration, we started up again, this time on the pistol range.I did enjoy the rifle work and the accuracy of the Winchester.  But after trying my hands at closer targets with smaller, lighter guns...oh my heavens I am hooked.  

Andy brought two 9mm pistols with him, a Glock 17 and a Glock 26.   And between the two of us, we shot...uh...almost 500 rounds.    I did say I am hooked didn't I?    The lighter Glocks were definitely more to my liking.  So, we shot at targets, we shot at bowling pins, we shot at candlepins, and otherwise had a grand old time "turning money in to noise", as Andy said.  

For whatever reason, I was much more comfortable with the Glock 17 than I was the 26. I am not a big person, and don't have big hands.  Most of Andy's corrections were on my grips, it took most of the range time to devise a way to hold the gun steadily.  Once I had a better understanding of what I need to do for a better grip, my accuracy increased substantially.

So how did I do?

After knocking over some bowling pins, Andy and I tacked up two targets, side by side.  We took turns shooting 5 rounds each in to them.  

Three sets of 5 rounds, and I shot a bullseye.












Next target after that, 4 sets of 5 rounds.  I didn't shoot a bullseye, but my aim is getting more consistent.  The 5 shot group in a "U"  under Andy's "Thumbs Up" drawing, was one set, the 4 shots just south of the bullseye plus the shot in the 10 o'clock position on the 8 ring was one set, and the 5 shots in a row in the 9-10 rings were one set.  











I think I have a rather good instructor, don't you?   

Props, Andy!!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi, Carol! Glad you had a good time, I had a lot of fun yesterday. 

Remember what I said about using the natural respiratory pause when firing.

With it's normal size mag the 26 might have fit a little better in your hands, but I think the 17 tipped the scale because of a bit more weight and the longer barrel having a bit more accuracy.

The rifle was a Winchester model 1894 in .44 Magnum( we used .44 Special instead--good starter round, not punishing to shoot, from a rifle it kind of feels like a loud .22, and since i currently own no .22's it served its purpose of getting Carol comfortable with shooting).

Next time you'll get to try my Lee Enfield 

One of my friends has a few snubbie revolvers I'll see if I can't borrow, see if your hands like those better. Better still, get him to come and bring all of HIS toys too.

Y'all should have been there to see the look on Carol's face when she got that bullseys----It was just about a perfect day.


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## SFC JeffJ (Jul 30, 2006)

Glad to hear you had a good time.  I'm not surprised that you like the 17 over the 26.  I always recomend new shooters go for the full sized pistols instead of the compacts.  They are easier to control, and the longer sight radius helps out too.

So is Andy's next job to take you shopping?

Jeff


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## Carol (Jul 30, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Glad to hear you had a good time. I'm not surprised that you like the 17 over the 26. I always recomend new shooters go for the full sized pistols instead of the compacts. They are easier to control, and the longer sight radius helps out too.
> 
> So is Andy's next job to take you shopping?
> 
> Jeff


 
Yes, but Lawyer shopping, not gun shopping.  It's nearly impossible to get licensed in Mass (even just for purchase) without an attorney.


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## SFC JeffJ (Jul 30, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Yes, but Lawyer shopping, not gun shopping.  It's nearly impossible to get licensed in Mass (even just for purchase) without an attorney.



Way sorry to hear that.  I hope it works out for you.  I'm sure he'll be able to point you in the right direction.

Jeff


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## Kreth (Jul 30, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> I was surprised at how much my breathing moved my sight around.


When I was in the Marines, we used to qualify at 100 yds (offhand, kneeling, seated), 200 yds (seated, prone), and 500 yds (prone). At 500 yards, the front sight is about the same width as the scoring area of the target, and even your heartbeat makes the sight dance around.


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## Carol (Jul 30, 2006)

Kreth said:
			
		

> When I was in the Marines, we used to qualify at 100 yds (offhand, kneeling, seated), 200 yds (seated, prone), and 500 yds (prone). At 500 yards, the front sight is about the same width as the scoring area of the target, and even your heartbeat makes the sight dance around.


 
I believe it. 

I had heard it said that when using firearms, one must keep a level head.  I thought keeping a level head meant exercising common sense and control over one's emotions. Now I see there is much more to it than that.  :asian:


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## Dale Seago (Jul 30, 2006)

Carol, congratulations!!!

I'm delighted you & Andy were able to get together, and he's obviously a good instructor. You have a LOT of fun ahead!!

There are pistols I like better than the Glock (Sig!), but the Glock is what I've always carried in executive protection work because it's so reliable, simple to operate, and also inexpensive compared to a lot of others. I think it makes a good "trainer" semiauto because it's more like using a double-action revolver: no safety or decocking levers to mess with, just point & press the trigger.


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## Lisa (Jul 30, 2006)

Carol you lucky girl!  I am way so jealous of your fun day at the range.  It has been a very long time since I have had a pistol in my hands.  My jealousy is huge! 

*YOU DID SO GOOD!* 

I am so happy for you, and did I mention a little jealous? 

Andy, you are definitely a gem and Carol is very lucky to have had to take her out.  Props to both of you!


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## stickarts (Jul 30, 2006)

Way to go Carol!


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## Blindside (Jul 30, 2006)

HA!  Another Glock convert!  Nice shooting BTW.

So what all is entailed in you purchasing a pistol?  Around here it is something like:"I want THAT (point)", show your ID, fill out two forms, quick call for a background check, and a credit card.

You need a lawyer???


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## Carol (Jul 30, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> HA! Another Glock convert! Nice shooting BTW.
> 
> So what all is entailed in you purchasing a pistol? Around here it is something like:"I want THAT (point)", show your ID, fill out two forms, quick call for a background check, and a credit card.
> 
> You need a lawyer???


 
Yes.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 30, 2006)

Not **quite** so bad as all that, but if you have a lawyer go over your License To Carry Application you stand a much better chance of getting it, particularly if you want a Class A License to Carry. Especially in the legal gray areas on who is or is not a "prohibited person".


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 30, 2006)

Andy Moynihan said:
			
		

> Not quite so bad as all that, but if you have a lawyer go over your License To Carry Application you stand a much better chance of getting it, particularly if you want a Class A License to Carry. Especially in the legal gray areas on who is or is not a "prohibited person".


 
To give you another perspective I'll relate my own experiences climbing the Class A Ladder.

My first time out my chief said to me squarely"I will issue Class B, I will not issue Class A( I hadn't done my hommework and really thought out my reasons for wanting a Class A in terms that would *work* talking to the chief---I didn't realize I was *Talking* to the chief at first. Went in cold and paid the price for not doing my recon before committing my troops). 

So right about this time the old Roman General I used to be in a past life woke up and I get to thinkin' "OK, Andy, You been ambushed. And you deserved it.You aren't gonna win this battle today, with the resources you currently have, take the Class B for now, use those 4 years( what was then the license duration) to get familiar with guns, wait out the siege,  come back with reinforcements and THEN press the attack". SO I accepted the B, and over the next 4 yrears handled more, got better, and toeward the end got certified as a firearms instructor hioping it would get me in the door for a Class A(my hometown HATES issuing them).

It did.


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## SFC JeffJ (Jul 30, 2006)

Note to self:  Don't move to Mass.


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## Carol (Jul 30, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Note to self: Don't move to Mass.


 
On a serious note Jeff (and other firearm owners that obey the law):  Don't bring your guns to Mass.

To do so legally means you would need to obtain a temporary license.

And obtaining a license in Mass...........you can fill in the blanks.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 30, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Note to self: Don't move to Mass.


 
You gain wisdom, my son.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 30, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> On a serious note Jeff (and other firearm owners that obey the law): Don't bring your guns to Mass.
> 
> To do so legally means you would need to obtain a temporary license.
> 
> And obtaining a license in Mass...........you can fill in the blanks.


 

[Sidious]You have been well trained, my young apppppppprrrrrrrenticcccce[/Sidious]


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## Carol (Jul 30, 2006)

*They will be no match for me.*:jediduel:


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 30, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> *They will be no match for me.*:jediduel:


 
"At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi....At last we will have revenge".


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## SFC JeffJ (Jul 30, 2006)

Ancient weapons and hokey religions aren't a match for a good Glock at your side.


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## Grenadier (Jul 30, 2006)

Glad you enjoyed the Glocks.  

One thing, though, your Attorney General still refuses to accept the current Glocks as "Massachusetts Certified," so the only ones you can get are the pre-1998 ones.


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## SFC JeffJ (Jul 30, 2006)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> Glad you enjoyed the Glocks.
> 
> One thing, though, your Attorney General still refuses to accept the current Glocks as "Massachusetts Certified," so the only ones you can get are the pre-1998 ones.



For crying out loud!! They are one of the safest guns on the market.  Would you happen to know their reasoning behind that decision?

Jeff


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## Carol (Jul 30, 2006)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> Glad you enjoyed the Glocks.
> 
> One thing, though, your Attorney General still refuses to accept the current Glocks as "Massachusetts Certified," so the only ones you can get are the pre-1998 ones.


 
Andy told me all about it.   Jacks the price up nicely doncha know, supply and demand.  





> For crying out loud!! They are one of the safest guns on the market. Would you happen to know their reasoning behind that decision?



Only the lawbreakers are allowed to have the new Glocks.   Despite the fact that Massachussetts has the more college-educated people and graduate-school-educated people per capita than any other state, the government says they have to tell us what guns are "safe". 


If someone shoots me with an approved Glock or an unapproved Glock, I'm still **** out of luck.   But the Government knows better than me of course.  I'm just a law-abiding citizen with an engineering job.  I don't ever use my brain.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 30, 2006)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> Glad you enjoyed the Glocks.
> 
> One thing, though, your Attorney General still refuses to accept the current Glocks as "Massachusetts Certified," so the only ones you can get are the pre-1998 ones.


 
Both my Glocks are Pre 98, all mags pre 94. And a hell of a time I had tracking em down.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 30, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> For crying out loud!! They are one of the safest guns on the market. Would you happen to know their reasoning behind that decision?
> 
> Jeff


 
because the AG's anti gun.

And completely insane.(This is the guy who wanted to regulate *claw hammers* as "Dangerous weapons" since they apparently figured in crimes)


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## Jonathan Randall (Jul 30, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Note to self: Don't move to Mass.


 
How sad that the birthplace of the American Revolution so heavily restricts a right it once fought so hard for...

Carol, I am ENVIOUS! Great job, and great job Andy as well for teaching her. I would have loved to have been there with you both.


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## Carol (Jul 30, 2006)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> How sad that the birthplace of the American Revolution so heavily restricts a right it once fought so hard for...
> 
> Carol, I am ENVIOUS! Great job, and great job Andy as well for teaching her. I would have loved to have been there with you both.


 
Would have been great to have you along with us Jonathan.   You and Andy are both boxers,  you two have a bit in common  

If you make it out east, you would be more than welcome.   Consider it an open offer.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 30, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Would have been great to have you along with us Jonathan. You and Andy are both boxers, you two have a bit in common
> 
> If you make it out east, you would be more than welcome. Consider it an open offer.


 
Well I was....well.............Panuntukan/Pukul IS a Filipino form of "Boxing" so yes, I suppose I could still be considered to fit the bill

And yes, we'd love to meet you


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 31, 2006)

Im glad I'm out here in Arizona!!  She's dangerous!!

:mp5:


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## Carol (Jul 31, 2006)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> Im glad I'm out here in Arizona!! She's dangerous!!
> 
> :mp5:


 
New Sig 

Oh you just wait sir.  As soon as my South American trip is finished...


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## Jonathan Randall (Jul 31, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Would have been great to have you along with us Jonathan. You and Andy are both boxers, you two have a bit in common
> 
> If you make it out east, you would be more than welcome. Consider it an open offer.


 
Thanks!


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## Blindside (Jul 31, 2006)

Andy Moynihan said:
			
		

> Both my Glocks are Pre 98, all mags pre 94. And a hell of a time I had tracking em down.


 
So that restricts you to what?  Second gen glocks?  And the mag requirement is for pre-assault weapon ban even though it sunsetted two years ago?

Lamont


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## Grenadier (Jul 31, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> So that restricts you to what? Second gen glocks?


 
All second generation Glocks are Massaschusetts-approved, since they were all made before the cutoff date.  

Some third generation Glocks are also approved, since there were some that were made before the cutoff date in 1998.  

None of the fourth generation Glocks (the ones with the newer extractor that also serves as a loaded chamber indicator) are approved, since they were made well after that date.  




> And the mag requirement is for pre-assault weapon ban even though it sunsetted two years ago?
> 
> Lamont


 
Magazine ban still remains the same as if the assault weapons ban never expired in MA, and with more restrictions:

http://www.packing.org/state/massachusetts/


On a side note, it can actually be somewhat easier for a non-resident to get a Massachusetts permit, since non-residents apply directly to the state police, and not the local authorities, although that depends on the city.


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## SFC JeffJ (Jul 31, 2006)

Is that John and Samuel Adams that I hear rolling in their graves?

Jeff


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## Swordlady (Jul 31, 2006)

Great job, Carol!  :ubercool:  You did a MUCH better job at the range than my best effort; I don't think I've ever hit the bullseye with a handgun..  Although...*some* formal instruction would help.  My only *real* firearms training was during my 2.5 years in Army ROTC, and the only weapon I fired back then was the M-16.  Nowadays, I shoot with handguns (I own a .22 caliber Walther), but as you learned, it is MUCH different than shooting with a rifle.

It's really cool that you and Andy live that close to each other.  Extra incentive for me to come up for a visit.


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## modarnis (Jul 31, 2006)

I'm very jealous.  Always fun converting money into noise.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 31, 2006)

Swordlady said:
			
		

> Great job, Carol! :ubercool: You did a MUCH better job at the range than my best effort; I don't think I've ever hit the bullseye with a handgun.. Although...*some* formal instruction would help. My only *real* firearms training was during my 2.5 years in Army ROTC, and the only weapon I fired back then was the M-16. Nowadays, I shoot with handguns (I own a .22 caliber Walther), but as you learned, it is MUCH different than shooting with a rifle.
> 
> It's really cool that you and Andy live that close to each other. Extra incentive for me to come up for a visit.


 
Anytime you like


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 31, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Is that John and Samuel Adams that I hear rolling in their graves?
> 
> Jeff


 
Full on spin cycle, I'm afraid....


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## Carol (Jul 31, 2006)

_


			
				Swordlady said:
			
		


			Great job, Carol! :ubercool: You did a MUCH better job at the range than my best effort; I don't think I've ever hit the bullseye with a handgun.. Although...*some* formal instruction would help. My only *real* firearms training was during my 2.5 years in Army ROTC, and the only weapon I fired back then was the M-16. Nowadays, I shoot with handguns (I own a .22 caliber Walther), but as you learned, it is MUCH different than shooting with a rifle.

It's really cool that you and Andy live that close to each other. Extra incentive for me to come up for a visit. 

Click to expand...

_ 



			
				Andy Moynihan said:
			
		

> Anytime you like


 
You bet!  It sure would be great to use my guest bedroom for, you know, a guest...instead of an office    Stunning concept!


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## Andy Moynihan (Aug 1, 2006)

Just when you decide to come up, let Carol and I know so's we can all plan our vac time accordingly.


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## KenpoTex (Aug 1, 2006)

Good shooting, nice to see another convert (victim of corruption? )


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## Carol (Aug 1, 2006)

kenpotex said:
			
		

> Good shooting, nice to see another convert (victim of corruption? )


 
Heh.  Depends on the point of view.  I'm learning the proper words around my gun-skittish friends.  "Target Shooting" seems to be a phrase that keeps them at ease.


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## Andy Moynihan (Aug 2, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Heh. Depends on the point of view. I'm learning the proper words around my gun-skittish friends. "Target Shooting" seems to be a phrase that keeps them at ease.


 
They will come to you, and then you will bring them before me.....:EG:


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## Carol (Aug 2, 2006)

Andy Moynihan said:
			
		

> They will come to you, and then you will bring them before me.....:EG:


 
At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi!  At last we will have our revenge!  

:jediduel:


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