# The Intrigue of "52 blocks"



## KangTsai (Oct 9, 2016)

52 blocks is known as an American martial art based in American prisons. It's not formally taught anywhere as of now.

52 blocks contain just that: 52 blocks (with some cool names for each one)
Its fundamentals are based in boxing; the art itself is specifically designed to fight against the boxing-based majority fighting population in prison. This focus developed extensive counter-techniques and strikes, all considered illegal in boxing. What results is a fascinating freestyle handcuffing form reminiscent of boxing and wing chun.

That's the general information on what it is. I'd just like to discuss this.

Interesting things:

1) I can say pretty confidently that the system is "practical." Why? It had to work, because it was developed fresh, from people without any prior, proper knowledge of martial arts, in a space where fights happened more often than not.

2) It was developed with tight spaces in mind — the 'creators' understanded that short, fast counterstrikes were optimal for environments such as corridors, cells or spaces with benches.

3) Again- it looks like wing chun with boxing. Comments sections for videos about 52 blocks contain many observations that the blocks the just like bong sau in wing chun.

What do you think? Check videos and articles first.

EDIT: I just want to add this technique video


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 9, 2016)

I don't like it. It's been around for a long time but it's not something that I like or would even recommend


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## KangTsai (Oct 9, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I don't like it. It's been around for a long time but it's not something that I like or would even recommend


I don't see anything particularly wrong with the sparring clips, but I see where you're coming from.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 9, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> I don't see anything particularly wrong with the sparring clips, but I see where you're coming from.


Nothing wrong with the sparring. It's the techniques that are issue.  For example, the guy catches a punch while he has his guard up and everyone claps.  Martial arts has a technique like that but it's more refined.  By refined, I mean that the kinks and problems with the technique have been worked out so that the technique is more reliable.
The danger with 52 blocks is that the excessive movements are distracting and unorthodox so you don't know what's really going to come out of that mess of hand movements.  In that one video the guy gets on his knees and is able to hold is position just by moving his hands around. 

For me. If I can't figure out what the hands are going to do, then I can always attack the legs.  If you notice the hands are wild and distracting, but the foot work is calm. This means that my brain would have to process less information to fight.  A few kicks to the legs will make the 52 blocks excessive hand movement stop.


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## Kickboxer101 (Oct 9, 2016)

I haven't watched the videos much because my Internet sucks but it just looks like sloppy boxing to me you notice on the ring clip the guy has his leg in the air throwing a punch


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## Tez3 (Oct 9, 2016)

I hope one doesn't have to go to prison to learn this! I imagine that what is shown in the videos is sanitised because I can't imagine the type of fighting prevalent in prisons is going to make pleasant viewing.


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## frank raud (Oct 9, 2016)

I think it is an urban legend that has become real.


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## Buka (Oct 10, 2016)

I remember some of this, out of New York back in the day. If you're not used to broken rhythm and odd hand movement, you might have some trouble. But most fighters I know aren't easily hypnotized, it would just be another fight, match, whatever.


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## jks9199 (Oct 10, 2016)

Or, perhaps, it's a marketing gimmick for someone's own stuff...

Nah, couldn't be.  That's why it never appeared before some videos 10-12 years ago...


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 10, 2016)

So I will need to clarify some of this, unfortunately. I'll go with the assumption you're making that it actually exists, but just be aware that's an assumption that not everyone really believes.



KangTsai said:


> 52 blocks is known as an American martial art based in American prisons. It's not formally taught anywhere as of now.



So this is the biggest thing. None of the people I know who are/were in prison learned 52 blocks. Plenty of them did some sort of boxing, or "street boxing" but never heard any of them say they've practiced 52 blocks or "jailhouse rock".



> 52 blocks contain just that: 52 blocks (with some cool names for each one)



Not necessarily. There are a ton of reasons it might have that name, only one of them being it contains 52 blocks.




> 1) I can say pretty confidently that the system is "practical." Why? It had to work, because it was developed fresh, from people without any prior, proper knowledge of martial arts, in a space where fights happened more often than not.



Have you ever witnessed or talked to someone who practices 52 blocks? Without that knowledge you can't really say whether or not it is practical.

How would something developed in a couple decades in prisons by people with no prior training make a system thats more practical than systems that were tested and evolved for hundreds of years in other dangerous settings?

Those are questions based on your assertions. However, I've been told that 52 blocks is a "black" fighting style, and that it was developed from african fighting styles.



> 2) It was developed with tight spaces in mind — the 'creators' understanded that short, fast counterstrikes were optimal for environments such as corridors, cells or spaces with benches.



While this makes sense, and I can't argue about the environment since I've never been in jail, who would be considered a creator of a system like this? Genuine question-I have never heard of a creator.



> 3) Again- it looks like wing chun with boxing. Comments sections for videos about 52 blocks contain many observations that the blocks the just like bong sau in wing chun.



This, if it were true, would suggest that people involved did have formal training. You don't just come up with wing chun out of thin air. I'm also going to refer back to my statement about it being a "black" fighting style, so there wouldn't really be any wing chun in it, although take that with a grain of salt.




With all that said, I can see it being a system that floats around urban areas. Except rather than a system, it's something thats spread and just the general term some use for how they fight. In some neighborhoods, it might be boxing mixed with wing chun, if a WC fighter (or even someone who learned some basics) combined it with boxing. In others, it might just be dirty boxing. And in others it might genuinely be just streetfighting.

I can't say if that's the case, since i don't live in those neighborhoods, and I'm not inclined to ask the people I know that do. Considering you are from New Zealand, I would guess the same goes for you.


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## punisher73 (Oct 10, 2016)

I don't believe the "origin story" of 52 blocks that it was passed in secrecy for hundreds of years by slaves in this country.  That has changed alot now more in recent times with internet and people also saying the story was crap.

What, I do think it is, is boxing mixed with some kung fu/karate that was gleamed from the movies in the 60's and practiced by guys in the inner cities.  This also seems to be what is supported by the older guys.

As to it's effectiveness, I think it's strength lies in it's unorthodox approach.  As with all other arts, it comes down to how it is trained and how good the person is at applying.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 11, 2016)

Came across this today.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 11, 2016)

I just found this.

Twitter

Apparently, Zeb Judah, and Mike Tyson both acknowledge that 52 blocks/JHR is a thing.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 11, 2016)

TSDTexan said:


> Came across this today.


He gets an A for trying to figure it out but there were some flaws with some of his concepts.  Things such as legs kicks and sweeps will change his theories.  But I do agree with his theory about the center line.


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 11, 2016)

The Legend of the 52 Blocks | VICE Sports

I remember reading another article recently which included more research into the origins of the art and talks with older practitioners. If I can find it I'll post a link.


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## Paul_D (Oct 11, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> What do you think? Check videos and articles first.


I turned it off when he said "catch the hand" whilst demonstrating the first block.  In the Matrix, maybe but in the real world....?


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 11, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> I turned it off when he said "catch the hand" whilst demonstrating the first block.  In the Matrix, maybe but in the real world....?


lol that was a bad one.  That's the problem that people often have when trying to figure stuff out slow speed like that. They get the mechanics all wrong. I don't about anyone else, but as a person who has had bare knuckles punch the inside of my hand, I can tell you that it's not something that I want to make a habit of.  There's a reason why punching mitts were made, and why parries with the hand are never head on with the fist.


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## punisher73 (Oct 11, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> I turned it off when he said "catch the hand" whilst demonstrating the first block.  In the Matrix, maybe but in the real world....?



You didn't get to the part where they actually teach to catch it and kiss the fist?  I have seen that application in 52 blocks as well.


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## frank raud (Oct 11, 2016)

punisher73 said:


> You didn't get to the part where they actually teach to catch it and kiss the fist?  I have seen that application in 52 blocks as well.


For a "practical" martial art, there seems to be some awfully flashy moves. The catch and kiss being someone's signature move? If you're that much faster than your opponent, maybe you can take the time to clown around, but one day, it will bite you.


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## Dink (Oct 14, 2016)

Firstly there aren't 52 Blocks.The name comes from supreme mathematics 5 is power/refinement 2 is wisdom.The art is formally taught.Its been around a lot longer than the sixties being known as Stato then Jailhouse now 52 Blocks.I am a student of Lyte Burly and have appeared on 4 52 Blocks dvds


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## drop bear (Oct 14, 2016)

Martial arts success is about the resources that they have acces to.

So in theory the skills of the best martial artists trickle down to the rest of the community.

So the best boxers are?

The best 52 blockers are?

And that pretty much gives you you answer.

This is called being a boring percentage fighter. Which if you were self defence focused i would recommend is generally the route to go.


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## Charlemagne (Oct 15, 2016)

TSDTexan said:


> I just found this.
> 
> Twitter
> 
> Apparently, Zeb Judah, and Mike Tyson both acknowledge that 52 blocks/JHR is a thing.



Noted historians that they are, we should definitely take their word for it.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 15, 2016)

Has any martial artists sparred with a 52 blocks practitioners? I would like to here their take about the system. It looks like a punch only system


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## TSDTexan (Oct 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Has any martial artists sparred with a 52 blocks practitioners? I would like to here their take about the system. It looks like a punch only system



Yep, that's my take. And with all the foot movement, no real root


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## TSDTexan (Oct 15, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> Noted historians that they are, we should definitely take their word for it.


Well, Zeb did show it a bit in a boxing match after taking a few punishing hits.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 15, 2016)

TSDTexan said:


> Well, Zeb did show it a bit in a boxing match after taking a few punishing hits.


...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...1pYPCxhZgpzwgWJiw&sig2=16sbb8krXyumc8-zvNkpFg


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## frank raud (Oct 15, 2016)

TSDTexan said:


> Well, Zeb did show it a bit in a boxing match after taking a few punishing hits.


Let's see if that makes sense. He goes 4-1/2 rounds with standard boxing and gets punished. Late in the Fifth, he switches to 52 and turns the fight. For rounds 6 on, he reverts to standard boxing. And loses. 53 fights. 42 wins. Fights pro from 1996 until 2013 and in one half of one round, he displays the 52. So, in the rest of his fights it wasn't necessary , regular boxing was sufficient? How about in his 9 losses and 2 no decision?


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## TSDTexan (Oct 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Has any martial artists sparred with a 52 blocks practitioners? I would like to here their take about the system. It looks like a punch only system


According to Dennis Newsome, a 52 evangelist... Jailhouse Rock (aka 52blocks etc.) comprises multiple styles developed in different places and under different conditions, and thus each of these incorporate different techniques. These techniques range from striking to wrestling, using the hands, elbows, knees, head butts, and some low kicks.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 15, 2016)

frank raud said:


> Let's see if that makes sense. He goes 4-1/2 rounds with standard boxing and gets punished. Late in the Fifth, he switches to 52 and turns the fight. For rounds 6 on, he reverts to standard boxing. And loses. 53 fights. 42 wins. Fights pro from 1996 until 2013 and in one half of one round, he displays the 52. So, in the rest of his fights it wasn't necessary , regular boxing was sufficient? How about in his 9 losses and 2 no decision?




Hey, I never said it was effective in winning proboxing, and most or a great deal of it is illegal in proboxing.

UFCer Rashid Evens said 52 blocks is "dirty boxing".

The point being was that it has surfaced from time to time. Whether it's something new from the '60s... or really is a mythic African martial art doesn't matter to me.

My personal supposition is that it is an ad hoc eclectic street art that borrows and steals from boxing, and other arts, and remixed with an Afro-American esthetic, and verbal tradition.

I'll toss this out as an example.
52 Blocks Tribute #2 - YouTube

It has a lot of "borrowed" imagery and techniques.

Much like fake ninjitsu.

He probably realized that if he really used it, he would disqualify himself. So he pulled up short


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 15, 2016)

Here's 52 vs someone who does Muay Thai.  Notice how the kicks change the applications as he talks about the limitations of 52.  A++ for exploring techniques







TSDTexan said:


> These techniques range from striking to wrestling, using the hands, elbows, knees, head butts, and some low kicks.


What kind of low kicks? there are quite a few


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## TSDTexan (Oct 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Here's 52 vs someone who does Muay Thai.  Notice how the kicks change the applications as he talks about the limitations of 52.  A++ for exploring techniques
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He didn't specify. Quasi martial arts thrive on ambiguity.


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## punisher73 (Oct 15, 2016)

TSDTexan said:


> I just found this.
> 
> Twitter
> 
> Apparently, Zeb Judah, and Mike Tyson both acknowledge that 52 blocks/JHR is a thing.



Much like Ali's infamous "karate punch" that he won his fight with against Liston.  There has been a history to attach something different to the ordinary in boxing.

I think that there is something to it _now._  I don't believe the story that Mr. Newsome came up with about it being a secret slave martial art taught in secret and then re-emerged in the prison systems.  Again, I think it came about  in that urban environment of boxing mixed with streetfighting tricks and a little kung fu from the popular movies.  If you put all that together, then you can call it whatever you want.


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## oaktree (Oct 16, 2016)

Wasn't this debunked on bullshido a while ago?


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## wingchun100 (Oct 17, 2016)

I think Dom Izzo or someone like that had a video called "Wing Chun Vs. 52 Blocks." Never knew what it meant until now.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 17, 2016)

wingchun100 said:


> I think Dom Izzo or someone like that had a video called "Wing Chun Vs. 52 Blocks." Never knew what it meant until now.




Yep, I actually posted that video on this thread earlier, the day I came across it.


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## Juany118 (Oct 17, 2016)

TSDTexan said:


> Yep, I actually posted that video on this thread earlier, the day I came across it.



The only thing I found weird with that video is that it seemed to be rather catering to the 52 Blocks guy.  I only say that because in many other videos Izzo has shown how the hooks etc can be addressed.  Also the 52 Blocks guy goes 360 around Izzo to illustrate that 52 blocks the center line of the enemy can be attacked from the rear and flanks as easily as the front, as if Wing Chun doesn't see it that way.  WC does and again, Izzo has noted this in his own videos before and after.  So I really don't give much credit.

Then every other 52 Blocks video I watch has me seeing holes.


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## Juany118 (Oct 17, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Has any martial artists sparred with a 52 blocks practitioners? I would like to here their take about the system. It looks like a punch only system



I've had to fight one who claimed such knowledge on the street to successfully take him into custody.  Now maybe he was just BSing or bad at it but it seemed to be a lot of unnecessary arm movements that maybe he thought would make his next attack less predictable?  Then lots of hook punches and upper cuts, nothing with the legs . But really it seemed to be a bit like prison shanking/knife fighting, premium on overwhelming offense, that left him open to someone else training in fighting to take advantage of. 

Take the above as it is though since I really have no way to verify his claims.


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## Juany118 (Oct 17, 2016)

Was doing some digging and found this article... The Myth of “52 Blocks” or “Jailhouse Rock”

This is the parts I found most interesting...



> Second, we are told we must accept the absurd notion that entire systems of fighting — not one, not some, but many — are being transmitted and taught from inmate to inmate in an extensive web of prison instruction despite the fact that such activities would surely be discouraged by prison officials. Yes, we do have grainy footage of inmates teaching their fellow felons sloppy martial arts moves or other criminal methods, such as during time in prison yards… but these isolated incidents are a far cry from the fully realized, technically complex instruction we are asked to believe is taking place. Violence does occur in prison, yes… but it takes only moments to stab or rape a fellow prisoner. It takes considerably more time to impart the details of an intricate martial art system to another person and especially to successive generations of other persons… all while in the strictly controlled environment of the penal system.
> 
> For that matter, if the system is so varied, so different, so determined by context, then there is no system at all — just a loose collection of technically diverse underground martial arts that have nothing to tie them together except that they are alleged to be practiced in prisons and by ex-cons.



and this...



> The heaviest irony here is that all of these people claiming to have seen or to teach a fictitious African martial art have, in effect, caused it to exist. Remember the martial art of Hikuta? Coincidentally marketed as the fighting style of the ancient Egyptian Pharaohs’ bodyguards, Hikuta was invented in the 1990s by a mannamed Lee Crull...
> 
> Likewise, regardless of the true provenance of the techniques they teach as 52 Blocks or Jailhouse Rock, those instructors claiming to impart it to their racially pure student bodies or to and from their fellow felons and ex-convicts have created a self-fulfilling prophesy. The fiction of Jailhouse Rock is now realized as a living, breathing style because there are people who say so… regardless of the truth. In so doing, they’ve breathed life into the lie of 52 Blocks… and helped further the popular culture imagery associated with street criminals and thugs, for good or for ill.


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## oaktree (Oct 17, 2016)

Oh man it's been I think 16 years since I heard about the Egyptian martial art again.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 17, 2016)

None of those arts hold a finger to llap goch.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 17, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Was doing some digging and found this article... The Myth of “52 Blocks” or “Jailhouse Rock”
> 
> This is the parts I found most interesting...
> 
> ...


This is what I was kind of sensing.  As a kid, there was always one or 2 people who had older brothers who claimed to know how to fight even though there was no formal training of self-defense.  It was an assumption of "I know how to fight" that grew from the ability to beat one or 2 people in a street fight, or in slap boxing.  I'm not sure how other cultures are but this was definitely the case within the African American culture as I was growing up. It wasn't just among the kids but also older adults.  There was always that one adult who was out of his prime and out of shape that was going to show the "young bucks" how it really was done.  It was like a 15 minute moment of fame and acknowledgement for the adult, because faces.  If you are in your 40's most kids probably think you are lame and already have this assumption that you are old.  In general teaching is one of those things when young people actually listen to what you have to say and they actually learn from you so for many adults teaching has value in society which is much higher than what they get paid for.   I think for some being a teacher helps fill a void where the "teacher" doesn't feel significant and teaching allows that person to feel significant.  

This is what it feels like and what I see when I watch the 52 blocks videos.  This isn't a slam on those who do 52 or teach street fighting stuff.  It's actually an acknowledgement that they could have probably been really good teachers in any subject matter had they only taken the time to take the formal path of obtaining knowledge.

Novell Bell is like the old guys I used to know as a kid.  You can clearly see he has some passion for the art but no formal training which is a shame because people with passion for what they do are the ones that help keep knowledge alive.





As for 52 blocks, you can do this all day to a person that trains martial arts for fighting purposes and be punished each time those crazy hands start moving.





But I guess you have to roll with what you know.  By the way, no hard feelings to the 52 block guy that's in the discussion. It's just jokes.


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## RTKDCMB (Oct 18, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


>



Looks like a rap battle or dance-off that went awry.


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## Juany118 (Oct 18, 2016)

RTKDCMB said:


> Looks like a rap battle or dance-off that went awry.



I have been trying to think of a way to describe 52 blocks and this made it click for me.  52 blocks is like modern hip hop. You can see that many of the artists have talent and passion.  The thing is many all to often go for flash, what looks cool etc thinking that appearance = function and that isn't always the case.  The same I think applies to 52 blocks.


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## wingchun100 (Oct 19, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is what I was kind of sensing.  As a kid, there was always one or 2 people who had older brothers who claimed to know how to fight even though there was no formal training of self-defense.  It was an assumption of "I know how to fight" that grew from the ability to beat one or 2 people in a street fight, or in slap boxing.  I'm not sure how other cultures are but this was definitely the case within the African American culture as I was growing up. It wasn't just among the kids but also older adults.  There was always that one adult who was out of his prime and out of shape that was going to show the "young bucks" how it really was done.  It was like a 15 minute moment of fame and acknowledgement for the adult, because faces.  If you are in your 40's most kids probably think you are lame and already have this assumption that you are old.  In general teaching is one of those things when young people actually listen to what you have to say and they actually learn from you so for many adults teaching has value in society which is much higher than what they get paid for.   I think for some being a teacher helps fill a void where the "teacher" doesn't feel significant and teaching allows that person to feel significant.
> 
> This is what it feels like and what I see when I watch the 52 blocks videos.  This isn't a slam on those who do 52 or teach street fighting stuff.  It's actually an acknowledgement that they could have probably been really good teachers in any subject matter had they only taken the time to take the formal path of obtaining knowledge.
> 
> ...


 

Not a huge Martin Lawrence fan, but that made me laugh.


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## Dink (Oct 20, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is what I was kind of sensing.  As a kid, there was always one or 2 people who had older brothers who claimed to know how to fight even though there was no formal training of self-defense.  It was an assumption of "I know how to fight" that grew from the ability to beat one or 2 people in a street fight, or in slap boxing.  I'm not sure how other cultures are but this was definitely the case within the African American culture as I was growing up. It wasn't just among the kids but also older adults.  There was always that one adult who was out of his prime and out of shape that was going to show the "young bucks" how it really was done.  It was like a 15 minute moment of fame and acknowledgement for the adult, because faces.  If you are in your 40's most kids probably think you are lame and already have this assumption that you are old.  In general teaching is one of those things when young people actually listen to what you have to say and they actually learn from you so for many adults teaching has value in society which is much higher than what they get paid for.   I think for some being a teacher helps fill a void where the "teacher" doesn't feel significant and teaching allows that person to feel significant.
> 
> This is what it feels like and what I see when I watch the 52 blocks videos.  This isn't a slam on those who do 52 or teach street fighting stuff.  It's actually an acknowledgement that they could have probably been really good teachers in any subject matter had they only taken the time to take the formal path of obtaining knowledge.
> 
> ...


No offence taken ,the Martin Lawrence video applys to a lot of people.I'm here to answer if anyone has specific questions as a lot about 52 that can be found by googling is incorrect


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## oaktree (Oct 20, 2016)

Nova Bell actually has had formal training in neijia arts and has a lineage in gao style,
He is probably one of the few Baguazhang stylist who has taken it to a more urban concept,  I have met students of Bell and people associate with him and they are pretty good guys.


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## frank raud (Oct 20, 2016)

Dink said:


> No offence taken ,the Martin Lawrence video applys to a lot of people.I'm here to answer if anyone has specific questions as a lot about 52 that can be found by googling is incorrect


Appreciate the offer for clarification. Just so we can have a basis to start from, as someone who studies 52, what is the history, and how has it evolved from(or developed separately) from Jailhouse Rock, Sakto, etc?


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## punisher73 (Oct 20, 2016)

frank raud said:


> Appreciate the offer for clarification. Just so we can have a basis to start from, as someone who studies 52, what is the history, and how has it evolved from(or developed separately) from Jailhouse Rock, Sakto, etc?



You will never get a definitive answer to that.  All of those things are too nebulous and were never codified as "systems".  The history itself has changed  because no one really believed the first "official" history of JHR, 52 Blocks etc.

It went from being an underground fighting system taught for generations by slaves, to being taught in prisons, to what it is now (that is believable).  That being, it is boxing mixed with streetfighting tricks mixed with some kung fu that was incorporated from the kung fu craze of the 70's.  As to how they "evolved" differently.  It didn't come direct source.  It wasn't like there was one guy who created this and then he taught a group of students who all moved to various parts of the country and developed their own approaches.  At least, to this point, there has been no documented history of a single source or person.


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## Dink (Oct 20, 2016)

frank raud said:


> Appreciate the offer for clarification. Just so we can have a basis to start from, as someone who studies 52, what is the history, and how has it evolved from(or developed separately) from Jailhouse Rock, Sakto, etc?


It's best described here.https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...ggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNFwSYCnkGYV1C9nkFLbOdzZVCqIJg

Stato (boxing from upstate ie prison) gradually changing to Jailhouse then to 52.Think of how jazz blues and hip hop change through time and vary from region to region.its descended from African arts and is improvisational in nature hence some people adding in Kung fu etc,the name changes the fight remains the same.The link above explains in detail the difference between vernacular (Jailhouse,52 , knocking and kicking etc) and traditional martial arts


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