# Brown belt or no?



## tsdclaflin (May 8, 2005)

Does your school use the brown belt between green and red?  

Do you have "cho dan bo" between 1st gup and 1st black?

And finally, do first degree black belts (cho dan, midnight blue) have a stripe or no?

(gup/belt)
10 white
9 yellow
8 orange
7 orange + 1 stripe
6 green
5 green + 1 stripe
4 brown 
3 brown + stripe
2 red
1 red + stripe
cho dan bo = red with black through it


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## tsdclaflin (May 8, 2005)

Replying to my own post....

I searched back and found several answers, so further replies are optional. It appears that there is quite a variety in belt colors among TSD.


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## Makalakumu (May 17, 2005)

In my dojang, we only have three belt colors at the gup level (this dovetails nicely with the Grandmaster's books).  

1.  White stands for the new snow of winter, pure and devoid of growth.  This phase lasts for a minimum of one year.
2.  Green stands for spring, the new shoots of knowledge break the surface showing promise for the future.  This phase lasts for a minimum of one year.
3.  Red stands for summer, where the heat and intensity of training flow forward to maturity.  This phase lasts for a minimum of two years.

4.  Black is separate.  It is full circle.  It is the fall of maturity and the beginning of a new cycle.

Around your forth or fifth year of training in Tang Soo Do a student is given an indication that they are ready to test for Cho Dan.  There is a preparation period that takes anywhere from 6 months to a year depending on the student.  During this time, the student is supposed to refine their technique and learn the dan requirements.  Then, they take the test.

In my dojang, I have my students test for a brown belt to designate this time.  I want my students to review everything they have learned at the gup level so they can see there strengths and weaknesses and I want them to have a taste of what their dan test will be like.  

I see the brown belt as a darkening of summer red in preparation for the fall.


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## kid (May 17, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> In my dojang, we only have three belt colors at the gup level (this dovetails nicely with the Grandmaster's books).
> 
> 1. White stands for the new snow of winter, pure and devoid of growth. This phase lasts for a minimum of one year.
> 2. Green stands for spring, the new shoots of knowledge break the surface showing promise for the future. This phase lasts for a minimum of one year.
> ...


Wow thats deep.  The way that the belts are labled is cool.  I have to remember that.



kid


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## Pale Rider (May 29, 2005)

In most schools that I have found - most recognize the "Brown Belt" as nearing the "Black Belt", and they are unfamiliar with the Red Belt as being the same rank.  Most of the TSD Schools use Red Belt instead of Brown, but I believe that it is not only the organization but the school's preference to which color they use.  To me and the way I look at the color of belts used by Gups is only an indication where the student is (or has obtained).  If a school really wanted to go to this extreme, they could just have one color (White) and use it for all of the gup ranks, but just award the Gup Rank.  For example if John Doe tested for 9th Gup, he would keep the white belt, but just receive a certificate saying he is now a 9th Gup instead of a 10th.  When I ask people at tournaments etc what their rank is - I ask them by saying "What gup rank are you?".
Most of the people don't know what I am talking about and they will give me their color rank.  Most schools use the same ranking structure - 10 Gups / 10 Dans.  So by asking them what "gup rank" - I will know precisely what rank they are.

Because colors varies from school to school - a Green Belt in one school may be only a Purple Belt, or a Blue Belt in another.  So really what does the colors mean anyway?  Only a way of letting the student know what rank they have achieved by the Number of Gups they have progressed through.


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## JWLuiza (Feb 15, 2006)

My school is slightly different.

For example adults test for 8th gup from 10th, not 9th.  And from 8th to 6th, and 6th to 4th.  However, we do not skip 2nd gup.  9th, 7th, 5th, and 3rd gup are for kids who need an extra belt to progress their training.  here is the list of our belt colors:

White
Orange
Yellow
Red
Green
Purple
Blue
Blue w/brown stripe
Brown
Brown w/black stripe
Black


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## karatekid1975 (Feb 15, 2006)

In my old TSD dojang, it went:

white
yellow (for kids)
orange
green
blue
brown
purple
red
red with stripe
cho dan bo
black

I may have the red belt thing confused. I haven't trained in TSD in 4 years. I know I stopped at blue (moved on the day of my brown belt test  ).

In TKD, we do have cho dan bo, kinda. Probationary BB. It's just about the same thing. And we do have brown.

white
orange
yellow
green
purple
blue
brown
red
senior red (or high red, which is where I am)
prob BB
BB


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## MALibrarian (Feb 17, 2006)

In my dojang our belt progression is:

10th gup - White
9th gup - White w/one stripe
8th gup - White w/two stripes
7th gup - White w/three stripes
6th gup - Green
5th gup - Green w/one stripe
4th gup - Green w/two stripes
3rd gup - Red
2nd gup - Red w/one stripe
1st gup - Red w/two stripes
Cho dan bo - Midnight blue
1st dan - Black belt (And it stays black from then on)


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## Master Jay S. Penfil (Feb 18, 2006)

I have only seen brown belt used in Okinawan and Japanese systems here in the South-East Michigan schools...


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## Miles (Feb 18, 2006)

Master Jay S. Penfil said:
			
		

> I have only seen brown belt used in Okinawan and Japanese systems here in the South-East Michigan schools...



I agree w/Master Penfil with the exception of the USCDKA TKD schools (or their progeny).  The TSD dojang where I teach TKD uses Red belt. No chodan bo for either program.

Miles


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## trueaspirer (Jun 4, 2006)

Yes, the arrangements of the belts for ranking are very diverse among tang soo do schools. In my own, their is no brown belt, but there is a second rank of white belt, no yellow, then orange, orange w/black stripe, green,green w/black, green w/red stripe, red, red w/orange, red w/black, black belt(actually navy blue), stripes on belt until master - navy blue w/red stripe, Kwang Jang Nim - same as master but with two small gold stripes.


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## NoSword (Jun 4, 2006)

TSDlibrarian said:
			
		

> In my dojang our belt progression is:
> 
> 10th gup - White
> 9th gup - White w/one stripe
> ...



The club that I trained with used a similar setup as this. The exception being that between white and green we had a purple belt. In the kids class, my instructor and I would break the first test in half and would give the student a stripe. The following test covered the remaining portion of the adult white belt test and was for a purple belt. Also, from 1st gup the student would progress to 1st dan.


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## Silverwing (Jul 6, 2006)

I guess I never really thought about the belt system differing between studios and organizations. All the Tang Soo Do schools in my area save for one are closer than family (in some cases they are family) and are pretty close to Grandmaster Shin. They all go as follows with a stripe on each belt except white and blue:
White 10/9 gup
Orange 8/7 gup
Green 6/5 gup
Brown 4/3 gup
Red 2/1 gup
Cho Dan Bo (Blue)
Black


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## Sipsoo Dragon (Jul 17, 2006)

10th Gup   -  White
9th Gup     -  Yellow
8th Gup     -  Orange
7th Gup     -  Orange/White Stripe
6th Gup     -  Green
5th Gup     -  Green/White Stripe
4th Gup     -  Brown
3rd Gup     -  Brown/White Stripe
2nd Gup    -  Red
1st Gup    -   Red/White Stripe
Cho Dan Bo - Dark Blue
Cho Dan    -  Black + 1 stripe
Ee Dan     -   Black Belt 2 stripes
Sam Dan   -  Black Belt 3 stripes

Pil Seung

Master Ken Nessworthy


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## xpoc454 (Jul 24, 2006)

Im a white belt currently but this is at least what Ive seen.
In my dojang our belt progression is:

10th gup - White
9th gup - yellow
8th gup - orange with/ one stripe
7th gup - orange with/ two stripe
6th gup - Green
5th gup - Green w/one stripe
4th gup - Green w/two stripes
3rd gup - Red
2nd gup - Red w/one stripe
1st gup - Red w/two stripes
1st dan - Midnight blue
(I belive if you progress past this there may be a white stripe down the lengthwise to signify something.) 

I believe the adults skip the yellow for us.
I also belive but am not positive


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## Komah (Nov 24, 2006)

tsdclaflin said:


> Does your school use the brown belt between green and red?
> 
> Do you have "cho dan bo" between 1st gup and 1st black?
> 
> ...


 

No ours is:

10 White
9 Yellow
8 Orange
7 Orange (1 stripe)
6 Green
5 Green (1 stripe)
4 Green ( 2 stripes)
3 Red
2 Red (1 stripe)
1 Red (2 stripes)
Pre Cho Dan (Red w/ 3 stripes)
Black


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## JT_the_Ninja (Jan 11, 2007)

Komah's is closest to mine, it seems:

10 - White 
 9 -Yellow 
 8 - Orange
 7 - Orange w/ green stripe
 6 - Green
 5 - Green w/ 1 red stripe
 4 - Green w/ 2 red stripes
 3 - Red
 2 - Red w/ 1 blue stripe
 1 - Red w/ 2 blue stripes
1st pretest - Red w/ 3 blue stripes
2nd pretest - Red w/ 4 blue stripes
cho dan - midnight blue
ee dan - midnight blue w/ 2 white stripes 
sam dan - midnight blue w/ 3 white stripes
sa dan and above - midnight blue w/ red stripe down middle

Looks like a lot of subdivision, and it is, but there's a lot of time, once you get to upper ranks. Tests from 10th gup to 3rd gup have 3 months in between them, but once you become a red belt, it's 6 months in between tests. And once you're a "black" belt (really midnight blue, I know), it's even longer. Takes 2 years, minimum, to get to ee dan level. Which is why I'm only ee dan now, when I've been at it for going on 8 years. Gotta love that, when compared to McDojos where you can get a black belt in a year. 

So why did the brown belt even start? No clue. Would make more sense to replace the 2 pretest levels with brown belt (save on tape, for one thing), since you wear the same red belt for so long (gotta wait a couple months before you even know if you passed your test for cho dan, much less get it).


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