# The value of a life....



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 14, 2009)

What is the value of a life?

Insurance companies set money amounts based on various factors, including age.

Fundraisers raise varying amounts for tragic reasons.

But what is the value of a life?

To me, my life is priceless, to someone bent on ending it, it's worthless.

To a member of the Secret Service, the Presidents life is of more value than his own.

Are all lives of equal value, or do they in fact vary in worth?


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## Chris Parker (Nov 14, 2009)

Hi,

The value of a life... Well, it is both constant and everchanging depending on context, really. To take each of your examples in turn, I don't think that insurance companies are really giving a financial value on a life, per se, but rather a number based on the relative expected income from a customer versus the expected pay-out. Fundraisers are rarely for individual lives, but more for the larger picture (rebuilding a community after a disaster, furthering research into diseases etc), so that is not so much "value of a life".

For the next few (your life to you, your life to someone wishing to end it, the Presidents life against a Secret Service Agents), I think they all really amount to the same thing. And in each, an individuals life is the most valuable thing they have. To you, your life is precious and worth fighting for, living through hardship, pain, injury, and more. In fact, it is worth going through pretty much anything in order to preserve.

And I wouldn't say it's worthless to someone trying to kill you, otherwise they would have no reason to try to kill you. So the thing to do here is to figure out what that value is. Now, not being a sociopath or psychopath, this is pretty much guesswork, but here goes: I would say that the other persons life often represents either the life of the attacker, and is an attempt to gain a control not realised, or it represents a percieved that to the attackers life (to clarify, I am discussing here a malicious attacker, a murderer, not someone acting in self defence).

The flip side of this is a soldier, or other such person, who is actively employed to kill others. This person (ideally!) is rational, sane, and well-balanced. And yet, their job entails actively taking lives (at least in theory). But I don't think this lessens the value of a life to them, in fact I would hope (and I beileve) that it raises it. By being in constant awareness of the frailty of life, and just how brief it can be, that can serve to bring it all into a focus that most others are unaware of.

With the Secret Service, or a parent sacrificing themselves for their children, or any other such sacrificial concept, the underlying idea is not that one life is more valuable than another, it is more that the highest value you can give to another is your own life. So in that regard, it is not a de-valuing of your own life next ot another, it is a recognition that your life is the most valuable thing you can give, and there are a few things that it is worth giving that value to.

Hope this made sense, actually.... Seemed clear in my head, then I started typing it down.


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## seasoned (Nov 14, 2009)

Deep question, deep answer. Different points of view.
(1) Gods point of view, every *life is precious*.
(2) Satan's point of view, every life if worthless.
(3) Humans point of view falls somewhere between the above depending on emotions.
(4) Personal point of view, pertaining to our own life, every *life is precious.*
Summation: Full circle.


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## Andy Moynihan (Nov 14, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> What is the value of a life?
> 
> Insurance companies set money amounts based on various factors, including age.
> 
> ...


 
"People are only all equal at birth/their actions determine their final worth".


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## Makalakumu (Nov 14, 2009)

When life is all there is and death is oblivion.  The value of life is immeasurable.  

When it comes to folks who want to put a price on life, that will only open a door straight to Christian Hell.


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## Ken Morgan (Nov 14, 2009)

Anybody can have a life, trick is to live that life to the fullest.

Just as any male can be a father, but it takes a special person to be a Dad. 

Life is so short, it is so precious, and fragile, you need to cram every minute of it full of stuff that will make it worth living.


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## The Last Legionary (Nov 14, 2009)

Quick.  Name the 1st President of the US.

Ok, just as Quick (without Googling), name the 1st mayor of DC.

Just as quick, name the guy who cooked the Christmas dinner for the 1st President the 1st year in office.

I submit that the cook was not as important as the President. His or her name is lost to history.


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## Steve (Nov 14, 2009)

Personally, I believe that the value of a person's life is in their potential, while the measure of a person's life is in their past.  

The value of any person's life is that they represent possibility.  We have unlikely heroes, people who have otherwise led unremarkable lives, who do something, save something, invent something, inspire something... or somehow enable another person to do these things.  That's the value of a life.

Said another way, no one does anything in a vacuum.  All of our lives are interconnected.  It's a special kind of vanity to believe that any one of us creates alone our current situation.  To believe that we've succeeded or failed only as a result of our own efforts.  We all owe someone for our successes.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 14, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> Personally, I believe that the value of a person's life is in their potential, while the measure of a person's life is in their past.
> 
> The value of any person's life is that they represent possibility.  We have unlikely heroes, people who have otherwise led unremarkable lives, who do something, save something, invent something... or somehow enable another person to do these things.



Interesting way to see it Steve. I hadn't thought of it that way. Thank you.


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## Steve (Nov 15, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> Quick.  Name the 1st President of the US.
> 
> Ok, just as Quick (without Googling), name the 1st mayor of DC.
> 
> ...


I would submit that there is a distinction to be made between importance and valuable.  

I would also suggest that knowing someone's name is an unreliable measure of their worth.  How many people know that René Favaloro invented bypass surgery, saving countless thousands of lives since 1967?  I had to look it up, but I would consider his life to be of particular value.


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## jks9199 (Nov 15, 2009)

$4.50.  Or at least that's one way of measuring it.

In another way -- a life is priceless, and irreplaceable.  

Reality...  Sorry, everybody, but if it comes down to it, my life is worth just a little more than yours if you're trying to take it from me.


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## Steve (Nov 15, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Reality...  Sorry, everybody, but if it comes down to it, my life is worth just a little more than yours if you're trying to take it from me.


Haha.   Funny, but also very true.  value is relative... and your relatives are less valuable to me than mine!


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## Archangel M (Nov 15, 2009)

Not to disturb the group hug but... 

By the same token, there have been many lives we would have all been better off without (Ted Bundy comes first to mind). And there are many alive now that I would consider the world better off without.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 15, 2009)

Wait...group hug?    Hey!   Where's my wallet?!?!


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## MA-Caver (Nov 15, 2009)

First thoughts while reading through this thread: 

"Does it take a death to learn what a life is worth?" ~ Jackson Browne "Missing Persons" 

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

... (personal thoughts)
Insurance companies pay out on the size of the plan. I can buy $50 K or $1 million dollar insurance policy and pay the premiums and thus to the insurance company I'm worth the amount of the premiums I continue to pay out to them, to my family or beneficiaries I'm worth $50K or $1 million... (this providing the insurance company doesn't try to weasel out of paying by finding a loophole or discrepancy in the policy vs my cause of death  ) 
Some actors are insured for the stunts they do. Their lives are valued on the amount of income they can generate for the motion picture studio at that given time. 

Some make their lives* immensely* valuable by the last moment sacrifice they created, i.e. the passengers of Flight 93 who perished in Shanksville PA on 9/11 preventing an unknown greater number of casualties. Whereas just moments before the hijackers got up out of their seats to seize the plane the passengers who fought back were just everyday people. 

A police officer who responds and possibly dies in the line of duty pursuing a suspect or responding to a call of whatever nature... their lives are of great value. The firefighters who perish in a fire while searching for more victims in a burning building... their lives have great value. 
Yet, largely they were relative strangers to the ones they were trying to help. 

A child has unfathomable value because of their unrealized potential. Another Einstein, Salk, Lincoln, et al. 

If it is just my life I must defend then I will defend it zealously and fiercely, yet if it is the life of my friends or loved ones then I will defend theirs as equally or even more so than I would my own. 

A value of a life is the size of the hole one leaves behind once they're gone, the size of the hole is relative to the value the collective or individual holds of the one who died. But again, look at the Jackson Browne quote above.


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## morph4me (Nov 15, 2009)

Interesting question.  I find myself wondering about cultures where human sacrifice was practiced. Was the life of the sacrifice considered less valuable or more valuable because their sacrifice supposedly saved the lives of everyone else?

Do people who sacrifice their lives for others consider their lives any less valuable than the people they save?

Does the value of a life change depending on the situation? 


I think this is one of those discussions that have no answers, but only lead to more questions, and make us examine our beliefs.


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## MA-Caver (Nov 15, 2009)

morph4me said:


> Interesting question.  I find myself wondering about cultures where human sacrifice was practiced. Was the life of the sacrifice considered less valuable or more valuable because their sacrifice supposedly saved the lives of everyone else?


 One would think that the lives being sacrificed were valuable to the ones sacrificing because there was an end goal in mind prior to the act. To appease the Gods and to receive the blessings of the Gods for the benefit of the people. There is a great deal of evidence of the Mayans doing this prior to their disappearance. (obviously human sacrifice doesn't work to well...)



morph4me said:


> Do people who sacrifice their lives for others consider their lives any less valuable than the people they save?


 Probably not at that moment. The man who runs out in front of a bus to push a child or other pedestrian out of the way probably didn't even think about the comparative value of their lives to the ones they're trying to save. Same with a soldier falling on a live grenade to save his platoon... it was something that needed to be done and immediately. The very fact that they done so determined their worth. The ones who stand by watching or acting to save themselves... that determines their value as well doesn't it? But value is relative, I may see my life as VERY valuable but you might not think so because I jumped out of the way instead of on the grenade, or in front of the bus. 




morph4me said:


> Does the value of a life change depending on the situation?


 It would seem so. The Flight of the Phoenix is a good example... a number of men together each in their own little pocket worlds now all thrust together in a do or die situation, each of them finding out their own worth and the worth of their traveling companion. 
But then again, look at Oskar Schindler in WWII at first he saw the Jews as a means of making himself more wealthy then his outlook changed as the saw them individually and the value of each compared to his own, so at great risk to his own life he saved the lives of those 1200 people. 
A dying man in the desert sees a person with a water bottle as the greatest most valuable person on the planet. People on a great luxury liner that's sinking see the guy in the tiny sailboat as the most valuable person. 
So is a person worth what they have? By what they can offer? 
What about you're walking down the street needing nothing, is the person walking towards you have any value?



morph4me said:


> I think this is one of those discussions that have no answers, but only lead to more questions, and make us examine our beliefs.


Indeed it is.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 15, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> What is the value of a life?



Like any commodity, it is worth what others will pay for it.



> Insurance companies set money amounts based on various factors, including age.



That's an estimate of remaining earning potential, not the value of the life itself.  Any given life, once extinguished, is not replaceable.  All that can be replaced is the money that the person in question would have earned.



> But what is the value of a life?



According to Star Trek, 4,000 Quatloos.



> To me, my life is priceless, to someone bent on ending it, it's worthless.



Correct.



> To a member of the Secret Service, the Presidents life is of more value than his own.



Their choice to make, of course.



> Are all lives of equal value, or do they in fact vary in worth?



The question I would have for you is 'to whom'?

To a religious person, their Creator places inestimable value on their life.

To a chemist, a human being is worth a certain amount in raw chemicals.

To a kebab stand?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33932286/ns/world_news-europe/

I do not know the value of a life, but I value certain lives rather highly, and others, not so much.  Probably like most people.


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## morph4me (Nov 16, 2009)

I think that for most people, whether or not they admit it, the answer is, "I don't know, but mine is worth more than yours"


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 16, 2009)

morph4me said:


> I think that for most people, whether or not they admit it, the answer is, "I don't know, but mine is worth more than yours"



The virtue of selfishness.  My life **is** worth more than yours (to me).  It has to be, or I am choosing not to exist at the first opportunity.  One might also note that if one does not first protect one's own life, one cannot help anyone else protect theirs.


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## Chris Parker (Nov 16, 2009)

The big problem with that concept is that it only really deals with the "self" preservation drive in people, and that is not all that we possess. The flip side is the "species" preservation drive, and in that sense, your life may very easily be sacrificed, or at least endangered, for the good and well-being of those around you. The most obvious example is a parent protecting their child. I'm sure few of you would say that you life outweighs that of your children?


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 17, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> I'm sure few of you would say that you life outweighs that of your children?



Yes, it does.  Has to.  The moment I'm gone, I can protect no one, including a child.


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## Archangel M (Nov 17, 2009)

What about the soldier who jumps on the grenade to save his buddies?


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 17, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> What about the soldier who jumps on the grenade to save his buddies?



What, indeed?

In the most basic sense, we honor his sacrifice and we give him the greatest respect; he is a martyr who gave his life for his comrades.  Yet, we are taught by society and by our countries, that there are concepts more important than personal survival.  This is a necessary brainwashing; for if it were not done, there could be no war.  No one to fight it.

We speak of serious matters when we say _"There are more important things than life."_  Are there?  What matters the future of my country to me if I am dead?  Will I care if a communist's flag is hoisted over my nation's capital after I'm gone?  I may care now, but how can I care when I'm dead?

At birth, there is one natural imperative.  To survive.  Everything else is imprinted later by societal conditioning.  Surviving isn't the main thing; it's the only thing.


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## Archangel M (Nov 17, 2009)

I highly doubt that the moment the soldier jumps on the grenade it is for "God and Country". 

I would "jump on the grenade" so to speak for my family. 

I would go into an "active shooter" scenario because it is my duty.


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## morph4me (Nov 18, 2009)

Not to detract from anyone's actions, but the soldier who jumps on the grenade doesn't have time to think about what he's doing, if he did, he'd probably be going in the other direction.

My brother got a bronze star for driving across a minefield to save someone in desert strom. When he told me about it, I asked him what the hell he was thinking, and if he had all of a sudden gotten stupid. His response " If they had told me the minefield was there, I wouldn't have gone."


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## OnlyAnEgg (Mar 25, 2010)

I agree with the posters that say that life has value because of it's potential.  I cannot, however, side completely with the thought that a child's life has more potential than another, longer-lived, individual.

In my time, I have seen children responsible for the deaths of others and people in middle-age turn themselves into creative, inspirational creatures.  As we are based on moment-to-moment decisions to bring us to any one point, potential exists at all points in life.

However, simply listening to news in the west for a couple hours and it's easy to see that life has a bottom line.  Earnings, philanthropy, profit, buying power...in the scheme of world economy, life seems to be there simply to move the money.  Consider how one might see differences in the report of Bill Gates' death versus a homeless man in Chicago: one may not even get a byline.

Sadly, it typically seems to me that the dollar is winning.


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