# Barefist Boxing?



## sweeper (May 17, 2002)

was watching a boxing match today and an old question came to mind..  Ok, today boxers wear gloves, they keep them up fairly high to protect their head (ok most do) but when you are bare fist fighting someone who is barefist if they throw a punch and it hit's the back of your hand or your wrist it's probably gona hurt and it's probably not going to shield the blow from hitting your head, from what I know of barefist boxing in europe before everyone started to wear gloves fighters keeped their hands higher up and blocked with their forearms more than their hands, but boxing has changed alot since than.

Now the quesiton is, "if you are boxinging barefist (and I'm talking strictly boxing I don't realy mean fighting NHB or something like that) where would you put your hands and how would you use them for deffence? For example in my JKD class my instructor has told me to keep my hands just below my chin (so you can see) rear hand right to the side of your chin lead hand almost halfway extended, and hold them right on either sde of your centerline. Basicly your hands are at about the level they would be at if you extended them strate from your shoulder in a punch, and they are high enough to swat down incoming punches. Of course it all changes depending on the situation though. So where would you hold yours?"


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## Baoquan (May 21, 2002)

Boxers don't *always* protect like that ( hands turned palms-in and protecting the face). Take a look at any boxer fighting a guy with longer and/or quicker arms than  he has - he'll have arm/hand positions remarkably similar to those you just described - and he will "paw" at incoming jabs, and use the lead hand to assist "slipping" inside or outside the attacking arm.

Besides, even if u "protect" your face with gloves on, any solid shot still hurts like hell - just limits the effects of "rapid acceleration-deceleration  injury".

Cheers

Baoquan.


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## sweeper (May 22, 2002)

alot of boxers cover up like that when they are getting wailed on.

Most of the boxing I have seen the fighters bat down punches in longer range but still keep a high guard to protect from a jab that might get through.

But what I meant was in a bare fist fight how would you block a blow? And I don't mean intercept.


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## Baoquan (May 22, 2002)

Yeah, thats true. Its a good way to stop alot of damage coming through.

As far  as "blocking" per se, if we define it as physically stopping a blow from completing its vector(as determined by the thrower)...you probly wouldnt. Boxers train evasive skills for that. Most would try to not be where the punch is going. Moving inside/outside/under the arc of the punch. 

Check out Prince Naseem for amazing head/body evasive skills.  He's very good at determining where a punch is going, and then not being there.

Boxers really dont train to "block", exactly. The thing is, boxing is not a barefisted art. No one who is "strictly" a boxer really thinks about training for barefisted defence, because its not gonna happen to them, barring something happening on the street, which by definition takes it out of what is "strictly" boxing. :wink: 

this probly doesn't answer your question.


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## sweeper (May 22, 2002)

well some boxers do train to cover up in order to salvage a bad situation. and boxing today isn't bare fisted but at one time it was, and there are new aplications that are bare fisted or near bare fisted (MMA events).


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## Baoquan (May 22, 2002)

well yes, but in your original question you specified...



> if you are boxinging barefist (and I'm talking strictly boxing I don't realy mean fighting NHB or something like that)



so my answer stands.


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## Yari (May 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by sweeper _
> 
> *"if you are boxinging barefist (and I'm talking strictly boxing I don't realy mean fighting NHB or something like that) where would you put your hands and how would you use them for deffence? *



Take a look at some of the footage of boxing ion the "good old days", where they fighted with out gloves,but with skin protection.

/yari


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## sweeper (May 24, 2002)

*L* I did say that didn't I  well let me clarify some.

I mean strictly boxing as in only using your hands, discounting the options of kicking and such (that's why I originaly said not NHB) but in some mixed martial arts fights there are fighters who are predominantly boxers, however I don't realy know how they train, and I haven't seen two go up against each other to watch how tyhey fight each other.

Yari what footage are you refering to? also I was wondering about how it would be done today, boxing has changed alot and I don't realy know what would apply and what wouldn't. as Baoquan pointed out it isn't a barefist art anymore. Just was wondering what would apply to barefist fighting.


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## ThuNder_FoOt (May 24, 2002)

Just to add, there are some boxing gyms that teach bare-handed styles of boxing. And it has nothing to do with NHB or anything like that... just teaching bare-handed techniques. Some have adopted knuckle punches (like the middle-knuckle punch) , vertical punches, elbows, and head butts.  

In the sense that you must block a high-section attack to the face, the block is executed with the forearms. But this block is usually secondary to the evasive movement. In the case the boxer can't maneuver out of the way, then this would be implemented. Its not a favored technique, because in order to effectively block, the vision is temporarily impaired. But the first defense manuever would be a type of dodge. 

As far as where the hands are held, they are held closer to the face than that of the typical JKD stance. This is to promote a more stunning jab, giving more time for combinations. But it can differ according to personal preference.

I have created a boxing thread in the *Western Martial Arts* section, if you guys would like to post there as well. :asian:


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## Baoquan (May 27, 2002)

My grounding in MA is in boxing - started in my dad's gym when i was six, but i've studied a couple other arts since then, including eastern arts that *do* block. I'd have to say that most of my hand techniques (as far as strikes go - not trapping etc) come from boxing. It's what boxing does best. 

what i have found, however, is that my hand defence SUCKS. this is probably due to the fact that i've only just stated training seriously again after  a "break" of a few years- by break, i mean only bagwork and shadow-boxing sessions twice a week. No sparring, which is probably why i suck so much right now.

But now, when i spar with my main training partners - kungfu and karate guys mostly - i've forgotten how to block. That is, my muscle memory is so primed for throwing my hands, that keeping my hands in good position for defence is a real chore. I've been getting tagged a  bit. I've had to re-learn my HIAs and attacks to the lead weapon.

I guess what i'm saying is that if you put some boxers in an environment that was as you described, they would quickly become something other than "strictly" boxers...blocking, trapping and grabbing would follow pretty quickly. Attacking the arms directly, too....

cheers

Bao


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## GouRonin (May 29, 2002)

Boxing was originally a bare fisted art that evolved into a sport due to the influence of the the upper class. It was and is a science and one of the original science based fighting arts.

Originally boxers stood with their forarms out as you'll note from oldboxing footage. This originally was because they used to fight barefist and would use the forarms as defence. Sure it looked goofy but have you ever punched a vertical forarm with the elbow locked at a 90 degree angle? It was like that for a purpose. As time went by and gloves began to emerge because the upper classes doing the art wanted to be able to use their hands the arm stance changed to a more side forarm stance.

However, long before the JKD guys got a hold of it boxers were doing destructions with the elbows. That was originally one way of dealing with barefist punches.


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## arnisador (Sep 11, 2003)

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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