# Differences between Ju jitsu and BJJ



## Kenpo_student

I have signed up to take a class in ju jitsu for the next three months. I am just curious what the differences are between Japaness ju jitsu and Brazilian ju jitsu. I am just asking because I am familiar with BJJ thru Pride fc and UFC but I haven't heard much about traditional JJ. Thanks in advance.

:asian:


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## Jay Bell

There's honestly very little in common between Jujutsu and BJJ.  BJJ comes from Judo...which comes from Jujutsu.  BJJ does most of it's work on the ground (ne-waza), while many Jujutsu traditions work from standing and controlling the opponent to and on the ground.


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## Kenpo_student

Thanks for the reply. Does JJ use the same chokes and joint locks as BJJ or are those modified judo techniques also? Sorry I don't know much about this but I am new to MA and my main art is american Kenpo and I am taking the JJ to broaden my learning(and to get enough hours for student loans).


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## tmanifold

BJJ is mostly 40's Judo but the chokes and joint locks carry over well from most styles of Classical Jujutsu. Judo pre 50's or 60's was alot more like Jujutsu than it is today.

Tony


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## Kempojujutsu

BJJ philosophy is to get you down on the ground and apply some kind of choke, arm or foot submission. Most BJJ'ers cross train in boxing and or Muay Thai. JJJ uses alot of the same chokes and locks that BJJ does. But striking is more important to JJJ and they tend to want to stay standing up right. I believe JJJ teaches to deal with Mulitpal attackers better than BJJ. Overall IMO JJJ deals with real self defense senerios better than does BJJ. At lease that is the way I teach.
Bob :asian:


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## Aegis

Glad to hear it!

Jujitsu is the most effective self defence art I have encountered to date... Our school doesn't focus on striking (in fact, aside from 4 kicks, 1 elbow kata and 3 dangerous parts kata, I don't think strikijg while unarmed even comes into the syllabus), but controlling the opponent from the moment he tries to strike you. We use throws, joint manipulation and just good old fashoined pain to get to where we want to be: us standing, opponent on the floor in tears


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## Qasim

What style of Jujutsu is this?


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## Aegis

Just referred to as "Jitsu", run by the Jitsu foundation/association. 

I nearly got my kneecap ruined yesterday! training with wooden knives....


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## Chu-Chulain

> _Originally posted by Aegis _
> 
> *Glad to hear it!
> 
> ... Our school doesn't focus on striking (in fact, aside from 4 kicks, 1 elbow kata and 3 dangerous parts kata*



I previously studied Samurai Jiu-Jitsu (yes that is how we spelled it!) in England. This style travelled from Japan to Australia and then to England where it spread through Universities.

Since coming to the States I have tried to find a similar versions, but BJJ is so widespread now its almost impossible to find the more traditional schools.

We also had a 3 dangerous parts kata, which I am wondering if similar. In your style is it head, front body and rear body with 8 strikes each? Also is most focus on defense techniques using locks and throws?

I am currently studying Kenpo, in which there are some similar defense techniques, but only limited body manipulation (throws and locks).


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## Humble artist

I´d agree that BJJ and JJ don´t have much in common and should be kept separate.
I don´t understand why they picked up the name "jiu-jitsu" for that Brazilian art which is clearly japanese (luckily it differs a bit verbally as "jiujitsu" would be incorrect in jap.)
BJJ deals very much with groundfighting,don´t know of any other art with such emphasis,some wrestling comes to mind maybe.
Some people confuse jujutsu to be a grappling art but it is often very well rounded and includes all basic levels of combat including weapon work,even though there are arts with bigger grappling orientation.

You will have very little problem finding information on traditional jujutsu,it being one of the biggest MA around,father of judo and aikido as an example.


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## Aegis

> _Originally posted by Chu-Chulain _
> 
> *
> 
> I previously studied Samurai Jiu-Jitsu (yes that is how we spelled it!) in England. This style travelled from Japan to Australia and then to England where it spread through Universities.
> 
> Since coming to the States I have tried to find a similar versions, but BJJ is so widespread now its almost impossible to find the more traditional schools.
> 
> We also had a 3 dangerous parts kata, which I am wondering if similar. In your style is it head, front body and rear body with 8 strikes each? Also is most focus on defense techniques using locks and throws?
> 
> I am currently studying Kenpo, in which there are some similar defense techniques, but only limited body manipulation (throws and locks). *



Sounds like the same style! Though we don't call it samurai jiu-jitsu any more, just Jitsu.


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## sammy3170

BJJ and regular JJ are similar as far as the grappling portion goes however there is no stand up fighting in BJJ (excluding takedowns).  BJJ focus alot on the competiton side of things yet there are many effective techniques which can be used in the street just as there are in Judo.  The only gripe I have with BJJ is the fact that they claim a lot of things as their own when in reality that just isn't so.  I learnt what the BJJ stylists call the triangle choke long before it became popular so it is really just another form of grappling which due to the fact that that is all it teaches it is very complete as far as fighting on the ground goes.

Cheers
Sammy


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## ace

Judo Came from Ju Jutsu
BJJ comes from Judo
So Y not call it
Jiu Jitsu

Makes sence to me


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## Qasim

It isn't jujutsu, just as judo isn't jujutsu.  By that line of reasoning, Aikido isn't Aikido, it's jujutsu.  It also came from jujutsu. Techniques that make up jujutsu were removed and those remaining were modified and other techniques added.

In the case of Brazillian Wrestling, the combat aspects have been stripped.  Jujutsu was created as the samurai's unarmed combat to be utilized on the battlefield when his weapons were not available to him (ie: damaged, or if he was disarmed or if he was just not able to use them).

Imagine trying to use Brazillian Wrestling on the battlefield with other people around you.  A few hundred men rolling around on the ground trying to choke each other out or get a submission. The same can be applied to self defense today.  Brazillian wrestler is attacked and he takes his attacker to the ground.  Before he can finish him off, the guy's friends show up and he says, "Hold on now, I need time to incapacitate your friend here and then I'll take the rest of you on one at a time."


:erg:


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## ace

I under stand were U are comin from.
But in respect it is still Ju Jitsu.

To call it some thing else would be moer disrespectful
Than calling it something else.

Also Wasnt it All called Yawara first & later Ju Jutsu

There are many styles of Ju Jitsu
& Bjj guyes Usely come in trains of people.

My post is one of this if they called it something else.
People would have been ticked off & said all ther doing is
Ju Jitsu under a different name.

One should be proud that Ju Jitsu Has so many Face's
& can ofer people more than one thery of combat.

Primo


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## Qasim

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *I under stand were U are comin from.
> But in respect it is still Ju Jitsu.
> 
> To call it some thing else would be moer disrespectful
> Than calling it something else.
> 
> Also Wasnt it All called Yawara first & later Ju Jutsu
> 
> There are many styles of Ju Jitsu
> & Bjj guyes Usely come in trains of people.
> 
> My post is one of this if they called it something else.
> People would have been ticked off & said all ther doing is
> Ju Jitsu under a different name.
> 
> One should be proud that Ju Jitsu Has so many Face's
> & can ofer people more than one thery of combat.
> 
> Primo *



Do you practice martial arts?  If so, what do you practice and for how long?


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## ace

Yes I am a Black Belt in Modern Arnis.
I teach Submisson Grappling.
& have competed in M.M.A   1-0 ( Win By inside heel hook)

I have won the USJJF N.Y.State Ju Jitsu title twice
I have Won 4 opean  N.Y. StateJu Jitsu Titles
I won the 2001 USJJF Nationl title 
I won the 2001 JJIF north american title

I cross train in Wrestling with Jdenz
& have practise JkD, Kali. Mauy Thai & Bondo

I love Martial Arts & respect them all


:asian: 
Primo


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## JDenz

I think what Primo is saying is people have 2 hands and 2 feet there are only so many diffrent ways of fighting.  Everything was once something else and will be reinvented agian as something new.


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## ace

Tumbs up Jdenz U said it all 
:asian: 
Primo


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## Aegis

I'm gonna have to agree that BJJ should not be recognised as a style of Jujitsu. To my mind, only the -do suffixed martial arts are safe enough to even consider using them as sport. BJJ is basically Judo with a few karate-do strikes.

I'm not trying to be offensive to the BJJ practicioners here, I jus don't think a sport should ever be a jutsu (or vice versa).


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## ace

I would like to quote a sentence from a George Kirby Book.

It was my own instructor's belief that there 
are no styles of Ju Jitsu
ONLY THE ART OF JU JITSU.

Do U guy's know what Chikura Kurabe is?
If not let me tell ya.
It is a Japanies stlye of Wrestling that served as the base for 
JuJitsu.

Also known as Yawara & Taijutsu. ( Taken from the book Kodokan Judo by Jigoro Kano)

Make not that Kano was the first to ever use Colored belts as well
So if U were a black belt  from Ju Jitsu
U now know that it is even more related than U thought.

Perhaps BJJ is not as traped in history as some styles.
but it is still Ju Jitsu & they have done more to create intrist in the art then anyone in the last Decade.

:asian: 
Primo


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## ace

Oooo yeah Just to note I am not Ranked in BJJ.
But i still see it as Jiu Jitsu for the same reason 

 Daitokan, Aki Jutsu, Goshin Jutsu Yoshin Ryu 
So on & so forth Are Ju Jutsu

It is like a family's last name 
just cause U don't like your cousin does not mean He/She is not related 

:asian: 
Primo


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## JDenz

jj has evolved like all other arts from the past.  If it didn't it would be useless today and that moderenazation is what spawned all the JJ arts.  I mean it isn't like you walk down the street and are assulted by 100 guys ridding horses weilding swords.


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## ace

Qasim Uriah Gardner.
U asked if i do Martial Arts & i gladly replyed.

U have bee absent from the rest of this debate.
Just wonderd how U are.   

:asian: 
Primo


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## JDenz

lol I am not ranked in anything if anyone was wondering


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## JDenz

Well a yellow belt on martial talk and an orange on Sherdog lol.


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## ace

In the old day's they trained to pertect 
there family's there land there home

Now a day's most train to get this colored belt.
actuly it has no color it is black.

  
I pre fer the old method my self
:asian: 
Primo


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## JDenz

lol I have to train so my girlfriend doesn't beat me up when Primo comes over lol


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## Aegis

My point is that jujitsu is a dangerous art designed to take on opponent, possibly many at once, either armed or unarmed and cause damage to said opponents causing them to stop fighting you. Preferably without getting hurt. 

BJJ seems to be focused on dealing with only one opponent at a time, and concentrates on dealing with unarmed prey (  ). To my mind this is most certainly not jujitsu, in the same way that Judo is not Jujitsu.

Add to that the fact that most people I know in BJJ train solely for tournament fighting and not for the defence aspect of the art, and you have a style of fighting that may be good in the ring, but is impractical on the streets.


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## ace

Im willing to bet on 2 agianst one any day oft the week.
Have U faced 2 againtst one i bet not.

:2xbird:
 :asian: 
Primo


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## ace

Back to Ju Jitsu 
I have been reading this for a week.
the Bottom Line is this 
It is Jiu Jitsu wether 
U like it or don't like.
:argue: 
Primo


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## JDenz

BJJ is mostly practiced for sport that is a givin but most good schools do self defense as well.  I bet if you told Royce that BJJ isn't good in the street he would have something to say.


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## Angus

I bet he would, but faced against 3 guys with broken bottles he might quiet down a bit. Nobody disputes it'd be great for 1 on 1 ground fighting, but at least personally, my head is too close to the ground to be stomped for me to want to ever be down there with the possibility of a second attacker.


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## ace

The issue is this
BJJ is a form of Jiu Jitsu 

And the head can all ways be brought the ground>:redeme: 


:asian: 
Primo


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## JDenz

If you think anyone can take three guys with broken bottles maybe you should stop watching Van Damn movies.  I am sure Royce would get the hell out of there just like I would.


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## Angus

So would I. Just an exaggerated example of BJJ's main weakness, which is against multiple opponents. Yeah, I'd run, but what if I couldn't? I wouldn't want to go to the ground. Luckily though, most BJJ guys cross train in striking at some point (and it's usually offered at their school), so they probably learn some at some point, though it may not be self-defense directly.

And yes, of course BJJ is jiu-jitsu, because the only kind of jiu-jitsu there is is BJJ. Is BJJ jujutsu? No, and most would say it's much closer to judo (which it came from) than jujutsu. I'm not even sure what defines Jujitsu compared to Jujutsu, at least technique-wise, if there is any. Organization wise I understand.


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## ace

Judo comes from Ju Jutsu
Bjj Comes from  Judo
The  Fact is this
It is Jiu Jitsu!
Primo

Read spell it write it a letter
It is stil Ju Jutsu, Ju Jitsu, Jiu Jitsu
:asian: 
Primo


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## ace

Read It Write It Send It aletter
LoL 
:asian: 
Primo


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## Aegis

No, I've never faced 2 opponents at a time, but then I haven't been training in this style of Jujitsu for very long. If I was putting bets on a street fight between my sensei and any 3 average street thugs though, I'd put money on him winning without too much trouble.

The only thing close to a multiple attack I've done is dealing with 2 or 3 opponents at once in training, and it can be done just by getting one opponent in the way of the others while you finish him off. Then do the same with the other 2......

Against well trained opponents this wouldn't be as successful, but the majority of street thugs are not formally trained in anything resembling this, so they tend to rely on simple strikes and bear-hug style grappling (or holding their opponent for a friend to hit). We train to deal with all of this. While BJJ for the most part doesn't.

Dealing with many opponents at once requires good awareness, wherea if you focus on only 1 opponent you will lose the overall fight, even if you ake out that one person.


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## Aegis

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *Judo comes from Ju Jutsu
> Bjj Comes from  Judo
> The  Fact is this
> It is Jiu Jitsu!
> Primo
> *



That's like saying "My father comes from my grandfather. I come from my father. Therefore I am my own grandfather"

Your logic is flawed. Just because you can follow BJJ back to Jujitsu via Judo doesn't make it Judo. By that logic, everything isn't actually an individual art, but is in fact however primates used to fight (some monkey-expert can fill out the details  )


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## ace

:redeme: 
Again it is still Jiu Jitsu
:fart: 
Primo


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## Aegis

> _Originally posted by JDenz _
> 
> *If you think anyone can take three guys with broken bottles maybe you should stop watching Van Damn movies.  I am sure Royce would get the hell out of there just like I would. *




Who needs to take all 3? A quick shiho-nage on the first would probably be enough to buy yourself enough time to leg it, especially if you did it so fast it broke his wrist/arm/shoulder  

No-one ever said jujitsu-ka would try to take out all three. That would be a last resort. 

Another option would be to take the first attacker, reverse his grip and hold the pointy bits against his neck. That should be enough to slow down his companions. If it's not, severing the carotoid artery would probably show them enough resolve for them to wish they'd worn darker underwear.

Handling weapons is an important skill in any complete martial art, and should have a lot of training time devoted to it.


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## ace

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats like saying Your father came from your
Grandfather.
U came from Your Father
& no mader how much Your grandfather
Thinks U are odd
U are still part of the family
:iws: 
:redeme: 
Primo


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## Aegis

But trying to say that BJJ is the same as Jujitsu because judo came from jujitsu and bjj came from Judo *IS* like saying the grandchild is the same as the grandparent. They may be in the same "family" (ie throwing styles) but they are most certainly not the same.


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## ace

I said & will say again it is Jiu Jitsu
I am Primo the 3rd
My father is Primo the 2nd
My grandfather is the first

While we don't look exzacly
the same we still have simaliraty's
We still have the same name
We do not agree with 
each others wardrobe

But we are still part of the same
 FAMILIA
:redeme: 
Do u know what CHIKURA KURABE
is if not let me tell    UUUUUUUUUU
It was a Japanies style of Wrestling 
That served as a base for Ju Jutsu
Also a history lesson
Ju Jutsu came from India then China
& finaly Japan were it was named!
It was intergrated with CHIKURA KURABE ( ALSO CALLED YAWARA)
And tought to young Samuri
Word to the wize pick up a book!
Primo
 :asian: :asian:


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## Aegis

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *
> Do u know what CHIKURA KURABE
> is if not let me tell    UUUUUUUUUU
> It was a Japanies style of Wrestling
> That served as a base for Ju Jutsu
> Also a history lesson
> Ju Jutsu came from India then China
> & finaly Japan were it was named!
> It was intergrated with CHIKURA KURABE ( ALSO CALLED YAWARA)
> And tought to young Samuri
> Word to the wize pick up a book!
> Primo
> :asian: :asian: *



Please don't start assuming I'm an idiot that knows nothing. I don't appreciate it. 

So by your reasoning, Jujitsu is just Chikura Kurabe? If so, call BJJ Chikura Kurabe. If not, your logic is disproved by your own argument, so you should come up with a new name.


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## JDenz

Lol I am sure a BJJ practiciner could take out one guy quick and hoof it to or hurt a guy bad enough to make room to hoof it as well.   BJJ is not all rolling around on the ground.   Ask Wallied Ismail, Rorion Gracie, or a silmier BJJ guy.


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## ace

:redeme: :2xbird: :2xbird: :2xbird: 
From Primo to all those who 
deserve it!!!!!


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## sammy3170

> _Originally posted by JDenz _
> 
> *Lol I am sure a BJJ practiciner could take out one guy quick and hoof it to or hurt a guy bad enough to make room to hoof it as well.   BJJ is not all rolling around on the ground.   Ask Wallied Ismail, Rorion Gracie, or a silmier BJJ guy. *



Who gives a sh#t?  

This has just turning into a pissing contest.  All martial arts originated in China anyway so bugger it BJJ is just an early form of Chinese wrestling (all names escape me at this point).   Lets just say BJJ is similar to other styles but with it's own idiosychrisies(spelling?).  I think we should all just look at each style on its merits not demerits.  As long as where you train gives you what you require then it is good.

Cheers
Sammy


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## ace

Hey Sammy 
Jiu Jitsu originated in India!!(Fact)
Pankration is the oldest dating M.A.
& it originated in greece!!(Fact)

China is defenitly 1 of the front runners
but not all M.A. came from there!!(Fact)
:moon: :moon: :moon: 
:redeme: 
Primo


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## ace

Sammy go back & read what is written!!!!
This debate is that some feel BJJ is not 
Jiu Jitsu!!!

:erg: :erg: :erg: 
:2xbird: 
Primo


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## ace

Aegis  U rename & present it to Heilo
He is the man U are mad at.
u think of a name & U tell him
He is not doin Jiu Jitsu!!!!
:snipe2: :snipe2: :snipe2: 
:2xbird: 
Primo:redeme: 
Id love to see his reply


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## Aegis

Pankration.... Ancient Greek wrestling.....

Wouldn't you think the older civilisations had martial arts too? And Jujitsu didn't originate in India. It originated in Japan. It may have very distant roots in India, but didn't originate there....


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## Angus

Who said BJJ wasn't Jiu-Jitsu? From what I can see, BJJ is the only _jiu-jitsu_.

Oh, and Primo, could you please not include so much animation into each post? It makes it so that every time I scroll over one of your posts it slows everything WAY down.


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## Kempojujutsu

Boys, Boys, Boys, Let's not fight. It's like what came first the chicken or the egg. I think too many people get wrap up in the name game. The name doesn't make you a better fighter/martial artist. It comes from inside.
Bob  :asian:


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## JDenz

Good post Kempo


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## ace

For 1 Pankration had strikes Submisson &Wrestling

Fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ju Jutsu came from India traveld thru China
& then To Japan1532 
This is the oldest date Recorded

:argue: 
Ill say it again go get a Book
Here are some good ones
 with a lot of history
Ju Jitsu the  basic techniques
 of the gental art By George Kirby

Kodokan Judo By Jigoro Kano
these are a couple
Read them.
Learn the facts!
 :asian: 
Primo


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## ace

So sorry i like The toons!:wavey: 
:redeme: 
Primo


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## sammy3170

Just some random ramblings on various things said.

Bodhidarma taught some monks in China certain meditation exercises which were then developed into forms of self defence etc etc.   I know the basic history but don't chose to just carry on and attempt to make others look silly. Anyone can be book smart.

BJJ or any arts based on those of the orient don't have any link to pankration.   I don't see the connection  here

Lastly I totally agree that BJJ is based on a Japenese art but Helio made some adjustments etc.   It isn't all that though.   When Helio fought the great Japanese Judoka  Kimura whom he was defeated very easily.  He was rendered unconscious once and burst a blood vessel in his ear from a Kimura head lock.  After Kimura secured an arm bar the Brazilians threw in the towel.  It wasn't 10 minutes of back and forth randori.   The only reason he didn't submit was because he was asleep at the time.  If it is based on Judo then it isn't all that great a version of it.

Cheers
Sammy


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## ace

First no Pankration has nothing to do with
this debate.
I used it as an excample of a Martial Art
not created in China.

Second Carlos Gracie learned Ju Jutsu & Judo 
From Count Koma.

Helio learned from his brother 
But because he was a naturaly
Week person he adabted the technique 
To fit his needs.

He would then go on to become one of the greatist
Fighters of Brazil.

He fought many Japanies fighters deafitng all but1
Kimura.
How Ever flash forward His son Rickson would face Kimura's
Top student chocking him out in Under 5 minuets.

Back to Helio He was out weighd by like 50 pounds
And Kimura made abold Statement that if Helio could
Last longer than 5 minutes he should be the winner.
it lasted almost an hour.
Kimura even asked Helio to move to Japan to teach his style

They offerd more money than had been oferd to anyone out side the Kotokan.

This debate is in my @@ eyes stupid
I said it before I will say it again
BJJ is Jiu Jitsu.

Like it or not!


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## Aegis

> This debate is in my @@ eyes stupid
> I said it before I will say it again
> BJJ is Jiu Jitsu.
> 
> Like it or not!



This is part of the reason for this being such a stupid debate. people come up with logical arguments and you respond with things like this. I have not tried to imply that BJJ is a bad competition art in any way, simply that it is not truly Jujitsu. And you come back with what I quoted above. You ridicule my knowledge and attempt to win by simply stating your same argument over and over.

I'm gonna bow out now, unless something I really want to reply to is said.


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## ace

GOOD!
But it is still Jiu jitsu!


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## Angus

It's getting a bit much, isn't it? This is going nowhere.


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## ace

Angus I agree!
:jediduel: 
Primo


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## sammy3170

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *
> And Kimura made abold Statement that if Helio could
> Last longer than 5 minutes he should be the winner.
> it lasted almost an hour.
> 
> This debate is in my @@ eyes stupid
> I said it before I will say it again
> BJJ is Jiu Jitsu.
> 
> Like it or not! *



From what I have read Helio was unconscious within the first five minutes but he came to and kept going.  No submission so he didn't lose.

Maybe Kimura did say all of these things I don't know but he still flogged Helio.

If you know where I can get a full copy of the fight which from what I have heard is non existant tell me please.  

I agree with you on the Jiu Jutsu thing. It has too many similarities to be a totally new system.

Cheers
Sammy


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## ace

Kimura Did Win.
But it Was with Ude Grami 
( Kimura Lock/Hammer Lock/Figure 4 Chicken Wing) 

But it was long.

And yes Ju Jutsu & Jiu Jitsu
Are related
Good Stuff.
:wavey:


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## JDenz

There are short clips of it on the Gracie In Action tapes


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## sammy3170

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *Kimura Did Win.
> But it Was with Ude Grami
> ( Kimura Lock/Hammer Lock/Figure 4 Chicken Wing)
> 
> But it was long.
> 
> And yes Ju Jutsu & Jiu Jitsu
> Are related
> Good Stuff.
> :wavey: *



That is not what is quoted in Martial Musings by Robert Smith.
When I read it, it was interesting to hear a non-Gracie version of events.  He firstly rendered Gracie unconscious with a dojime(leg scissor around the body). When Gracie recovered he applied a headlock so hard that it burst a blood vessel in Gracies ear and Gracies corner threw in the towel when the arm bar was secured. I can guarentee than the Gracie site shows very little incriminating footage on their videos (the dojime and blood etc)

Just what I've read
Cheers
Sammy


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## ace

If U go to Kimura Vs Gracie there is
a picture of the end.

Note Helios pride would not let him 
Self tap his shoulder was broken
And Carlos Gracie thru in the towel.
:armed: 
Good Stuff


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## sammy3170

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *If U go to Kimura Vs Gracie there is
> a picture of the end.
> 
> Note Helios pride would not let him
> Self tap his shoulder was broken
> And Carlos Gracie thru in the towel.
> :armed:
> Good Stuff *



Not tapping because of pride doesn't win any browny points in my book.  Why not just accept that you are out of your league and come back to fight another day.  With regards to strangles and chokes you are potentially risking your life with such stupidity.

Just some thoughts
Cheers
Sammy


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## Kempojujutsu

> _Originally posted by sammy3170 _
> 
> *Not tapping because of pride doesn't win any browny points in my book.  Why not just accept that you are out of your league and come back to fight another day.  Just some thoughts
> Cheers
> Sammy *



Thats my thoughts, a lost is a lost don't care if you tap, get knock out, judges decesions, towel thrown in, forget to show up. The thing about excuses, there like a a%#holes everyone has one. I believe you can learn more about yourself, martial arts skills in losing than winning. Yes everyone likes to win, but did you learn or get any experence from it. Just my thoughts
Bob :asian:


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## ace

Guy's i agree  with ya .
But after a hour of fighting
 his mined state was not probably
Were it should be.

If your cought your cought.
How Ever Helio did catch many Japaniese
Judoka / Fighters in Chokes & most went to sleep

It's the same thing.
If U are cought tap.

There is no dishonr in taping!!!

:armed: 
Good Stuff


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## RyuShiKan

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *
> And yes Ju Jutsu & Jiu Jitsu
> Are related
> *



Actually Jujutsu with an I is the same thing as Jujutsu with a U.
Foreigners screwed up the pronunciation and spelling of the word and that's is the only difference between the two.


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## ace

:armed: 
Good Stuff


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## RyuShiKan

What's with the ":erg: "?


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## ace

The argument on this forum 
has been that Jiu Jitsu is not Ju Jutsu

U are the 1st person i dont know direct that
Agrees that Ju Jutsu & Jiu Jitsu

Are the same. 
:armed: 
Good Stuff


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## RyuShiKan

Jiu Jitsu is not Ju Jutsu......JiuJitsu is not even a word in Japanese, truth be known. In the west they are interchangeable because not many people know it isn't a real Japanese word. Some foreigner screwed up the pronunciation long ago and it has stuck.

If anyone would take the time to learn a bit of Japanese they would know........or they could just ask a Japanese Jujutsu teacher what the difference was...the teacher would tell you there is no such word as JiuJitsu in the Japanese Lang......however maybe most western people are just too damn lazy, arrogant, or stupid to take the time to do that and learn, I don't know.


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## ace

:angry: 
U almost made sence.
:fart:


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## ace

This case is Dead!!!!!!!!!

Say what U like i care no more!!!!!!!!!!

:armed: 
Don't Sing it
Bring it


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## RyuShiKan

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *This case is Dead!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Say what U like i care no more!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> :armed:
> Don't Sing it
> Bring it *




Don't tell me you are one of those poor misguided people that actually thinks there are 2 different arts.....1 called Jujutsu and another called Jiujitsu........:rofl:


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## JDenz

No Ace has been agueing that there is no diffrence this whole time and no one will agree with us


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## RyuShiKan

> _Originally posted by Jay Bell _
> 
> *There's honestly very little in common between Jujutsu and BJJ.  BJJ comes from Judo...which comes from Jujutsu.  BJJ does most of it's work on the ground (ne-waza), while many Jujutsu traditions work from standing and controlling the opponent to and on the ground. *



Not much need to continue this thread  Jay has told you the answer (above)..........

Those are the major differences anyway.

Even among Jujutsu schools in Japan there are differences.........for example the Hontai Yoshin Ryu.........the Tenjin Shinyo Ryu are both Jujutsu schools but have some different waza......and there are at least 20 different styles in Japan.


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## Aegis

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *The argument on this forum
> has been that Jiu Jitsu is not Ju Jutsu
> 
> U are the 1st person i dont know direct that
> Agrees that Ju Jutsu & Jiu Jitsu
> 
> Are the same.
> *



Actually the argument is whether BJJ and Jujitsu are the same.... not whether the words Jiu Jitsu and Jujitsu are the same. 

Jiu/Ju and Jutsu/Jitsu are interchangable, as they are merely the best Arabic written method to show the correct pronunciation, which is actually somewhere between the two sets.


I don't think anyone was arguing that Jiu-Jitsu and Jujutsu are different at all.


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## RyuShiKan

> _Originally posted by Aegis _
> 
> *   Actually the argument is whether BJJ and Jujitsu are the same.... not whether the words Jiu Jitsu and Jujitsu are the same. *



So I have been told...........however, the point is totally ridiculous since there is no such word as Jiujitsu in the Japanese language and therefore no such art. Only westerners that have not been taught the proper pronunciation of the word Jujutsu use the later. 
Those same folks might call where I live Jay-pan as well.............or even say Kee-yo-toe for Kyoto, or O-sack-uh for Osaka, or Nay-ga-sackey for Nagasaki, Hee-row-shee-ma for Hiroshima. 






> _Originally posted by Aegis _
> 
> * Jiu/Ju and Jutsu/Jitsu are interchangable, as they are merely the best Arabic written method to show the correct pronunciation, which is actually somewhere between the two sets.*




Er uh.....it's Romanization not Arabic. Arabic is the stuff you see on the signs carried Palestinians saying "Kill all Americans" on a CNN news report.
The best Romanization for the word is Ju jutsu and it is not somewhere in between. I am fairly confident in this not only because I have spoken that language daily for the last 14+ years but also my dictionary has it the same way.


As I said before........Jay already answered the question on whether they are the same or not


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## Aegis

Hmmmm..... I must have been in a strangely suceptive state when someone told me that then.


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