# Something I recently witnessed.



## Paul_D (Feb 17, 2015)

As it is relatively unusual to witness real life situations, for most people, I thought I would share one I witnessed a couple of days ago.  Unfortunately it’s not particularly interesting, apart from one factor.

Driving home at tea time I stopped at a junction I stopped din a queue of cars waiting to pull out.

Accords the road I saw two men (early/mid 20’ds for a guess), one of them had the other in a head lock.  My first impression was two mates horsing around, but quickly realised it wasn’t.  I put my car window down a little to listen.  Couldn’t really hear much but the man who had the head lock on released it and then started shouting at the guy who had been in the head lock telling him not to bully xxxx.  I couldn’t hear the last word, so have no idea who xxxx was, so wasn’t entirely sure who this guy had been bullying. 

During this time the guy who had been in the headlock was silent (or at least he wasn’t shouting so I couldn’t hear anything form him).  After a minute or so the guy who had been in the headlock walked off, and the other guy walked into a takeaway.

The interesting part was that once the headlock was released and the two men started talking/shouting they did so at a very close distance, i/e sucker punch distance.  It stuck out like a sore thumb, I just thought what the hell are you doing getting that close to each other.  If one had decided to take a pop at the other he most likely wouldn’t have known anything about it until it was too late.  

It's not unusual of course, most videos you see people get far too close to each other (or allow someone to get far too close) and end up getting sucker punched.  It's why The Fence (or The Wedge or whatever name you chose to give it) is so useful.


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## Transk53 (Feb 17, 2015)

Two friends probably realizing what damage would ensue if they kicked off. Done that myself.


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## donald1 (Feb 18, 2015)

well... he had him in a headlock, if he really wanted to hurt him that probably would have been the best time for him to do it. they were probably friends. yelled at him nothing more then left.either they are friends or he just didn't want to harm


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 18, 2015)

Paul_D said:


> The interesting part was that once the headlock was released and the two men started talking/shouting they did so at a very close distance, ...


If the guy used "head lock", he must be a grappler. For a grappler, the closer the distance, the better advantage that he will have, If his opponent tries to punch him, he can apply "head lock" again. I don't know why the other guy stays that closer. It seems a bad idea to me.

This is the beauty of the "head lock". You can get into that position, ask your opponent if he is willing to quit. You don't have to break his nose and reach to a point of no return.


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## Transk53 (Feb 18, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If the guy used "head lock", he must be a grappler. For a grappler, the closer the distance, the better advantage that he will have, If his opponent tries to punch him, he can apply "head lock" again. I don't know why the other guy stays that closer. It seems a bad idea to me.
> 
> This is the beauty of the "head lock". You can get into that position, ask your opponent if he is willing to quit. You don't have to break his nose and reach to a point of no return.



Why must he be a grappler. You are assuming he is a martial artist or a wrestler. A head lock is something most people have done at some point. Kids playing do it quite often, I know myself and my mates did.


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## drop bear (Feb 18, 2015)

You still shouldn't be getting too close with the fencewedge either to be honest.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 18, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Why must he be a grappler. You are assuming he is a martial artist or a wrestler. A head lock is something most people have done at some point. Kids playing do it quite often, I know myself and my mates did.


If your "head lock" is not strong enough to "crash" your opponent's body structure, it may put you into a dangerous situation. Here is a good example at 1.00.

Unless you train "head lock", you should not use it. If you train it, you have to train a lot pf things along with it. You will finally become a grappler.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 18, 2015)

dup, deleted.


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## Transk53 (Feb 19, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If your "head lock" is not strong enough to "crash" your opponent's body structure, it may put you into a dangerous situation. Here is a good example at 1.00.
> 
> Unless you train "head lock", you should not use it. If you train it, you have to train a lot pf things along with it. You will finally become a grappler.



No I disagree, you do not have to train the headlock, you just have to be very aware of pressure and break points. Plus the medical side of things, which is the most important I think.


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## oftheherd1 (Feb 19, 2015)

Not having been there to have seen and heard all that was said, or being able to talk to one or the other, it is really impossible to evaluate the reason for the confrontation, or even the reason for the outcome.

But this thread seems to have been sidetracked concerning the headlock.  First, I agree with those that say putting someone in a headlock doesn't mean you are a grappler by trade.  As was said, we used to do that when I was a kid horsing around with friends.

Second, headlocks can be very dangerous to the person in the headlock, and the person applying it.  Fortunately most people don't know how to apply it to kill or paralyze, so mostly people aren't hurt, maimed, or killed.  There are several good counters to a headlock, which doesn't make it a good technique to use against an opponent unless you quickly transition to a usage that stuns, maims or kills.  ... And your opponent isn't able to counter quickly, which he should be able to do.

If pressure was applied to the jaw or temple, it may have been enough pain for the alleged bully to have decided to give up.  It seems it isn't uncommon for bullies to enjoy bullying, but to be unable to stand against being bullied themselves.  But in this instance, who knows?

To the OP, was there more actual or anticipated violence than you have reported?  It seems to have had a profound effect on you.


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## Paul_D (Feb 22, 2015)

Now you've said it, I think frin


Transk53 said:


> Two friends probably realizing what damage would ensue if they kicked off. Done that myself.


No you've said that, that makes sense.  Probably what it was, would have expected it to escalate otherwise.


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## drop bear (Feb 22, 2015)

Paul_D said:


> Now you've said it, I think frin
> 
> No you've said that, that makes sense.  Probably what it was, would have expected it to escalate otherwise.



Some fights just don't escalate past that. Once the point has been made.

Not everybody is a sociopath.


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## drop bear (Feb 22, 2015)

Getting in close is tricky. A fence method that is static is not that well designed to stop shots from there. You are still too close to really predict shots coming in.


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## Paul_D (Feb 24, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Getting in close is tricky. A fence method that is static is not that well designed to stop shots from there. You are still too close to really predict shots coming in.


I'm not sure it's designed to stop shots, just give you some warning they are coming so you don't get sucker punched.


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## drop bear (Feb 24, 2015)

Paul_D said:


> I'm not sure it's designed to stop shots, just give you some warning they are coming so you don't get sucker punched.



you still get sucker punched from that range. It is just too close to reliably react in time. Provided sucker puncher is not doing something completely silly.


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## Paul_D (Feb 24, 2015)

drop bear said:


> you still get sucker punched from that range. It is just too close to reliably react in time. Provided sucker puncher is not doing something completely silly.


Something to bear in mind, thanks


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## Transk53 (Feb 24, 2015)

IE what he means is don't miss.


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## Argus (Feb 28, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If your "head lock" is not strong enough to "crash" your opponent's body structure, it may put you into a dangerous situation. Here is a good example at 1.00.
> 
> Unless you train "head lock", you should not use it. If you train it, you have to train a lot pf things along with it. You will finally become a grappler.



That's not relevant. People fight without training all the time, and think nothing of it.
Moreover, even a grappler is susceptible to a sucker punch from such close distance. It's an issue of reaction time, or lack thereof.

Always look at information in light of its present context, rather than trying to deduce the context from specific information.


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