# I think my professor lied to me



## skribs (Aug 6, 2022)

Yesterday, I was working with my professor.  I am a 5-day white belt, he is a 3rd-degree black belt.  He had me drill a technique we worked earlier in the week, and told me he'd ramp up the resistance, starting at 10%, and moving up to 100%.

I am fairly confident he did not actually give me 100% resistance.

_While the above statements are technically true, it is tongue-in-cheek, I still love class._


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 6, 2022)

skribs said:


> Yesterday, I was working with my professor.  I am a 5-day white belt, he is a 3rd-degree black belt.  He had me drill a technique we worked earlier in the week, and told me he'd ramp up the resistance, starting at 10%, and moving up to 100%.
> 
> I am fairly confident he did not actually give me 100% resistance.
> 
> _While the above statements are technically true, it is tongue-in-cheek, I still love class._



Not knowing either of you nor seen anything in video. (* Not asking  *) 

Could he have given you the 100% White Belt Resistance?


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## drop bear (Aug 6, 2022)

Wrist lock him. 

Easiest way to tell.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 6, 2022)

skribs said:


> 100% resistance.


The term resistance has different meaning in the wrestling art than in the striking art. In the striking art, resistance may mean to dodge/block your kicks/punches. In the wrestling art, resistance may mean force against force (A - B < A).

In the wrestling art, one should learn how to borrow force instead ( A + B > A).


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## skribs (Aug 6, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> Not knowing either of you nor seen anything in video. (* Not asking  *)
> 
> Could he have given you the 100% White Belt Resistance?


I'm guessing 100% of what I can handle and still succeed.


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## Olde Phart (Aug 9, 2022)

I would think it was 100% of what he thought you could handle.

I was taught by a 74 year old grandmaster of Kyuki-do.  I'm 67.  He and his brother came over in 1968 from Korea and they started teaching in dojangs with concrete floors (no mats!).  His brother eventually set up the American Kyuki-do Federation in the 70's.  After I got up in the belt order, but not black, I thought I'd be a little frisky with him during grappling practice.  Sort of as a surprise.  Lordy!  Not really a bad mistake, but certainly a learning experience.  He's about a foot shorter, older, lighter.  He won!

I find when I am teaching lower belts (now that I am a black), I pull everything and go slower so they can "get it".  Not that I am the greatest or the fastest, but there IS a difference.


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## skribs (Sep 15, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Wrist lock him.
> 
> Easiest way to tell.


I have purposefully avoided using wristlocks for 3 reasons:

It wouldn't be fair to the other white belts if I did wristlocks on them.
It's not allowed for white belts.
I really, really don't want the higher belts to start considering me fair game if I used one on them.



Kung Fu Wang said:


> The term resistance has different meaning in the wrestling art than in the striking art. In the striking art, resistance may mean to dodge/block your kicks/punches. In the wrestling art, resistance may mean force against force (A - B < A).
> 
> In the wrestling art, one should learn how to borrow force instead ( A + B > A).


How is this relevant to the discussion?  We're on a grappling forum, so obviously we're talking about grappling.  

There are times to resist force and times to borrow it.  As with the response to the vast majority of your posts, it's not about A or B being better.  It depends on the situation.  

Of course, in this case, "resistance" doesn't just mean "I'm going to out-muscle you by meeting force with force."  It also means he's going to try to keep me from getting a grip, try to redirect my force, try to block my movement by framing so I can't get there, and sometimes to just win with strength.  It's a combination of the two options you provide as being a binary choice, but also with others present.

On top of that, my professor's goal was not to win.  It was to teach me how to apply the technique on someone who is noncompliant.  His objective was to be just noncompliant enough that I would struggle, but still succeed.  And he achieved that goal.  So I would say his resistance was entirely appropriate for the situation.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 15, 2022)

skribs said:


> "resistance" ... also means he's going to try to keep me from getting a grip,


First let me try to understand your definition of "resistance".

Will you consider the following as "resistance"?

You try to

- underhook my arm. I raise my arm straight up, so you just underhook into the thin air.
- wrap my arm. I rotate my arm the same direction as your arm, so you just wrap into the thin air.
- grab me. I move back, you just grab into the thin air.
- ...

In other words, by your definition, does "avoid contact" also mean "resistance"?

To me, both "avoid contact" and "borrow force" are not "resistance".


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## skribs (Sep 15, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> First let me try to understand your definition of "resistance".
> 
> Will you consider the following as "resistance"?
> 
> ...


Resistance can be one of two (or more) things.  It can either be:

Prevent the opponent from achieving their goals
A specific method of preventing the opponent from achieving their goals, which is done by applying strength against their force
Borrowing force is combining resistance (first definition) with your own technique.  So it is resistance-adjacent.  

Of the three examples you provided, I would consider all of them to meet the first definition of preventing me from setting a grip, but not the more specific definition of brute forcing it.


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 15, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> First let me try to understand your definition of "resistance".
> 
> Will you consider the following as "resistance"?
> 
> ...


I can't speak for skribs, but in the context that he is speaking of, I would call those examples "resistance". The idea is that I am trying to accomplish something and you are working to prevent me from accomplishing my goal. If I wanted to refer to opposing force with force (i.e. I push you and you push back, then I would call that "direct resistance".)


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 15, 2022)

skribs said:


> Of the three examples you provided, I would consider all of them to meet the first definition of preventing me from setting a grip,


So if I run away from your attack is also considered as "resistance" by your definition.

IMO, "escape" should not be treated as "resistance".

To me, when I sweep your leg, if you

- turn your shin bone into my sweep, that's "resistance".
- lift your leg, and let my foot to go under, that's "escape". Since I only dear with the thin air, I don't feel any "resistance" at all.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 15, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I am trying to accomplish something and you are working to prevent me from accomplishing my goal.


Again if you let me to deal with the thin air, that's "escape" and not "resist" by my definition.


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 15, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Again if you let me to deal with the thin air, that's "escape" and not "resist" by my definition.


That's fine. As long as we know what each other means when we're talking. The way skribs and I used the term is the way it's generally used in the general context of BJJ sparring. We'd make the finer distinctions of "escaping", blending", "redirecting", "pushing back", etc if we're breaking down a specific technique. But if we're just talking about how hard we are making the sparring for someone, we'd talk about degrees of resistance.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 15, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> That's fine. As long as we know what each other means when we're talking. The way skribs and I used the term is the way it's generally used in the general context of BJJ sparring. We'd make the finer distinctions of "escaping", blending", "redirecting", "pushing back", etc if we're breaking down a specific technique. But if we're just talking about how hard we are making the sparring for someone, we'd talk about degrees of resistance.


In the

- stand up game, when one tries to "avoid fighting (escape)", the referee would give him warning. 2 or 3 warning may disqualify him.

- ground game, there is no such thing as "avoid fighting (escape)" since both person would be tangled together anyway.


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## skribs (Sep 15, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Again if you let me to deal with the thin air, that's "escape" and not "resist" by my definition.


Words are just words.  We can argue them until the cows come home, but that won't get us anywhere.


Kung Fu Wang said:


> In the
> 
> - stand up game, when one tries to "avoid fighting (escape)", the referee would give him warning. 2 or 3 warning may disqualify him.
> 
> - ground game, there is no such thing as "avoid fighting (escape)" since both person would be tangled together anyway.


This is absolutely 100% patently false.  If *all *you do is use range to stall, then yes, you will get penalty.  But in striking, it is very common to dodge attacks by outranging them.  Forward and backward movement is very common in Taekwondo and boxing, and I'm sure plenty of others.  

In wrestling, we trained escapes.  Why?  Because you get 1 point for escape (2 for reversal, 3 for takedown).  Not only was it an option, *but you got points for it.  *In my BJJ class today, we were working on escapes where we create distance away from our opponent.

In fact, I challenge you to find me a rule set for striking in which dodging an attack is a foul, or a rule set for grappling in which escaping your opponent's grasp is a foul.


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## drop bear (Sep 15, 2022)

skribs said:


> I have purposefully avoided using wristlocks for 3 reasons:
> 
> It wouldn't be fair to the other white belts if I did wristlocks on them.
> It's not allowed for white belts.
> I really, really don't want the higher belts to start considering me fair game if I used one on them.



Just go slow. If they are still wrist locked after about 10 seconds or so then put it on. 

The issue is everyone wants to snap them on which is a bit douchy.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 15, 2022)

skribs said:


> In fact, I challenge you to find me a rule set for striking in which dodging an attack is a foul, or a rule set for grappling in which escaping your opponent's grasp is a foul.


Not dodging an attack, but refuse to attack (play defense only). If both persons play defense, the fight will never start. In SD, that's OK. In tournament, that's not OK.

There was one Chinese wrestling tournament in Taiwan. During the championship fight, both persons refused to attack (play defense only). Both were disquilified. The 3rd place became the 1st place. The 4th place became the 2nd place.


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## skribs (Sep 16, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Just go slow. If they are still wrist locked after about 10 seconds or so then put it on.
> 
> The issue is everyone wants to snap them on which is a bit douchy.


This is something we learned very fast in Hapkido.  Along with, "tap when you feel the lock starting, not when it's fully set, or else you won't be able to use your hands for 2 days."  One or two isn't bad, but when it's the whole class...


Kung Fu Wang said:


> Not dodging an attack, but refuse to attack (play defense only). If both persons play defense, the fight will never start. In SD, that's OK. In tournament, that's not OK.
> 
> There was one Chinese wrestling tournament in Taiwan. During the championship fight, both persons refused to attack (play defense only). Both were disquilified. The 3rd place became the 1st place. The 4th place became the 2nd place.


And again, how is that relevant to the thread?  We're not talking about that.  Nobody is talking about that.  You're picking extreme unrelated examples to make a point that doesn't even address the post.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 16, 2022)

skribs said:


> And again, how is that relevant to the thread?  We're not talking about that.  Nobody is talking about that.  You're picking extreme unrelated examples to make a point that doesn't even address the post.


Because I try to understand your definition of "100% resistance".


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## skribs (Sep 16, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Because I try to understand your definition of "100% resistance".


You seem to be the only one struggling with that.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 20, 2022)

100% :: punch in face
100%:: kick in the nuts
100%::Choke out till it goes dark


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 20, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> So if I run away from your attack is also considered as "resistance" by your definition.
> 
> IMO, "escape" should not be treated as "resistance".
> 
> ...


You say "should not be considered resistance." Why not? If "resistance" in context means trying to stop someone from doing what they're trying to do, then escaping the technique is a valid method of resisting.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 20, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> You say "should not be considered resistance." Why not? If "resistance" in context means trying to stop someone from doing what they're trying to do, then escaping the technique is a valid method of resisting.


In ground game, if you stay on the ground like a crab, and I stand up like a chimpanzee, I'm avoid the ground game. I'm not resisting.

When you sweep my leg, if I raise up my leg, that's escape. If I turn my shin bone into your sweep, that's resisting.

By using your definition, we can't distinguish those situations.

IMO, resisting is the opposite of escape, avoid, borrow force, yield, stick, follow, ...

A: Help! Help! I can't deal with my enemies resistance.
B: How strongly is your enemies resistance?
A: They all run away from me. I can't find any of them.
B: ...


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## skribs (Sep 20, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In ground game, if you stay on the ground like a crab, and I stand up like a chimpanzee, I'm avoid the ground game. I'm not resisting.
> 
> When you sweep my leg, if I raise up my leg, that's escape. If I turn my shin bone into your sweep, that's resisting.
> 
> ...


Is it your opinion?  Or is it something you consider fact?  Because you're arguing like everyone else is wrong.  You've taken a thread that was a fun little anecdote and turned it into "Your vocabulary is stupid and I'm smarter than everyone."  That's the vibe I'm getting from you in this thread.

You're not arguing in good faith.  You're arguing to try and find a "gotcha" that proves that you're smarter than *everyone else *who understands what "resistance" means in this context.  

Not every word has to have a specific meaning.  For example, you say "sweep".  There are a number of different sweeps.  Which sweep do you mean?  You didn't distinguish it.  Does that mean your word is wrong, because it can mean multiple things?  No.  That's how words work.  Sometimes the same word can mean different things.  Sometimes you have to use contextual clues to figure out what people are talking about.  Or if you're not sure, you have to ask.  But once you figure out what they're talking about, *most people* would just continue with the conversation, instead of arguing that "well, even after you explain it, I don't know what you mean, because you could have meant something else than what you explained it".


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 20, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In ground game, if you stay on the ground like a crab, and I stand up like a chimpanzee, I'm avoid the ground game. I'm not resisting.
> 
> When you sweep my leg, if I raise up my leg, that's escape. If I turn my shin bone into your sweep, that's resisting.
> 
> ...


As usual, you’re presenting a binary idea, when the situation isn’t binary. We can refer to that as resistance, and still use other words to distinguish them. Including them in an umbrella term doesn’t preclude also using other words.


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## skribs (Dec 9, 2022)

Update on this.  I had another accidental private lesson last Friday, and one again today.

I'm starting to see improvement.  For example, when my Professor goes at 10% speed, 5% strength, and hands me openings on a silver platter...I can almost pass his guard.

Last weekend he did a tournament.  He absolutely demolished his opponents.  A bunch of us had gone up to watch him compete.  I told the guy next to me, "I must have done a great job rolling with him yesterday."  That joke got back to the professor.  He thought it was the funniest thing.  "I need to roll more with Skribs, he prepared me for this..."  

(Luckily he knew I was joking and knew that I didn't actually think I prepared him to take on other black belts).

In fact, when I showed up to class today, his reaction, "What are you doing here?  I don't have a tournament this weekend."


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 9, 2022)

skribs said:


> Update on this.  I had another accidental private lesson last Friday, and one again today.
> 
> I'm starting to see improvement.  For example, when my Professor goes at 10% speed, 5% strength, and hands me openings on a silver platter...I can almost pass his guard.
> 
> ...


What was the lesson?


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## skribs (Dec 10, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> What was the lesson?


Wasn't much of a lesson, mostly just cardio drills of techniques I've already been taught and then rolling with my professor.  Not that I didn't get a lot out of it, there just wasn't a "lesson" part of the class.

I haven't taken an actual private lesson with him yet.  When I'm the only one in class (happens sometimes on Fridays), I just get the lesson he already had planned for the beginners, except he's my partner the whole class.


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