# Takedown pattern of Form 5



## MisterMike (Nov 4, 2003)

Does anyone know the pattern of take-downs in Form 5. For example:

Takedown from the front, pushing the top
Takedown from the rear, pulling the bottom

...


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## Rainman (Nov 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *Does anyone know the pattern of take-downs in Form 5. For example:
> 
> Takedown from the front, pushing the top
> ...



I think this one is highly interpretive... there is more than one way to classify a takedown.  Arm, shoulder, cavity press, lever classification...  Might be easier if you take a tek or two out of five and open a discussion about the takedown or strikedown of that tek.  Then you can go back and find similarities in other teks and apply that info.

:asian:


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## Michael Billings (Nov 4, 2003)

The various or potential takedowns in one technique, eg the first technique, Destructive Fans.

1st Hammerfist - possible cavity press takedown; or
Thrusting Sweep Kick striking pressure point in outside of right leg possible takedown if struck at 45 degree angle, or a simple sweep; or
Apply Contact Manipulation to Right wrist or fingers as you execute (or don't execute) the "Ideal" leg buckle with the right leg;

You also have the option of crumpling them or utilizing a "take up" with a wrist/finger contact control.

There are probably more, but these are the What-If's I play with.

-Michael


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 5, 2003)

Mike is talking about the different "type" of takedowns.... right?


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## MisterMike (Nov 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *Mike is talking about the different "type" of takedowns.... right?
> 
> *



Yes. There are only a handful of principles. You can:

Top to the rear while the base is stationary (Falling Falcon)
Top to the front while the base is stationary (Leap of Death)

Bottom to the front (Destructive Twins)
Bottom to the rear (Brushing the Storm)

Top to the front, Bottom to the rear
Top to the rear, Bottom to the front

I filled in a few of them. You can also look at whether you are in front or behind the opponent when doing the takedows for twice the possibilities. Has anyone completed the matrix?


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## Michael Billings (Nov 5, 2003)

I think what I was alluding to is that no single "type" of takedown can be specified per technique, except at the Primitive Stage of learning.  That is why I responded the way I did to Rainman.  I am looking at several types of takedowns per technique being possible.  Some could be catagorized together, but not many, that is the point of the form (I thought)?

-Michael


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## MisterMike (Nov 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *I think what I was alluding to is that no single "type" of takedown can be specified per technique, except at the Primitive Stage of learning.  That is why I responded the way I did to Rainman.  I am looking at several types of takedowns per technique being possible.  Some could be catagorized together, but not many, that is the point of the form (I thought)?
> 
> -Michael *



Yes, in the techniques we have variations from the Form. But IMO the Form is there to give a template for design. So as I am looking at the takedowns, I see the different general types of takedowns as I listed above - (perhaps incompletely).

I just thought that if anyone was on the same page as I am (poor soul) it may have raised some flags. If you just look at whether you are pushing/pulling the base or the top of the person or a combination there of, everything else will fall into one of those categories, or case studies of motion, which is what Kenpo is to me. 

:asian:


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 5, 2003)

If I remember right there is a good write up in the technical section. Try performing a search on long 5 over there.


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## Rainman (Nov 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *I think what I was alluding to is that no single "type" of takedown can be specified per technique, except at the Primitive Stage of learning.  That is why I responded the way I did to Rainman.  I am looking at several types of takedowns per technique being possible.  Some could be catagorized together, but not many, that is the point of the form (I thought)?
> 
> -Michael *



I agree with a lot of what you are saying- I think it just depends on how an idividual or group does the classification thing or what their information is.  Because they are takedowns or strike downs they are levers for me and only 3 kinds of those.

ciao
RM


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