# Why do we do this??



## Tgace (Mar 10, 2004)

The author Richard Strozzi-Heckler wrote in "In Search of the Warrior Spirit"..."How do we fulfill our spiritual yearnings in a society that places materialism as its highest good? What makes life so dreary that men cheered in the streets when WWI was declared? Perhaps the men in these small towns are really marching away from boredom and lack of meaning, and not so much toward war. During his visit George mused that 'it may not be that war is so often vivid, but that peace is so often drab. The end of war may require the creation of a peace that is not only just, but vivid.'....

Once I read that, it made me think about some of the choices I have made in my lifetime. First as a teenage boy when I started my first martial art class. A large part of doing so was for the "macho" factor. Another part was the "adventure" factor, doing something different, something to set me apart, something outside the drab everyday life. As a kid during the 80's "ninja craze" a few of my buddies and I used to run amok in the neighborhood in black gi w/tabi searching for "adventure" (lucky we never got in trouble). Later in life I rock climbed, skydived, served in the military and eventually wound up in law enforcement. I would be lying to myself if I said that I made those decisions entirely to "serve my country" or "to help others". Large portions of those decisions was that each of them wasnt the "same old, same old". They fulfilled some sort of masculine need that is tough to nail down.

This line of thought lead me to an observation about some of the martial arts students I have met. Im no psychologist so take this as an IMHO, but many of them (probably even myself at times) seemed to have serious insecurity issues. Some (predominately male) struck me as the geeky kid at school who took MA to make themselves cool/macho/somebody to be respected instead of picked on. Some of the more advanced people, people with jobs, families, kids and many other hobbies seem to get all wrapped up in the politics, in-fighting and @!%&-measuring contests that the martial arts can turn into. Why is that? Could it be that these folks need something....something more than their "everyday" lives to provide them with some form of "vitality", some type of self-worth?

During my long and varied education, I remember some anthropology courses that mentioned some of the "manhood" rites that marked a boys passage from boy to man, jumping from platforms, vision quests, scarring and other rituals. Our society has nothing really. Boys either pursue some form of fantasy life (a la "ninja craze"), join gangs or wait until they are old enough to enlist. I believe the martial arts plays a role in the process too and maybe a safe/good one.

So what do you think? Is there more to peoples interest in the martial arts than self-defense/exercise/spiritual development/ yadda yadda yadda? Is there some sort of "deeper need" that we are looking to fulfill?


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## loki09789 (Mar 11, 2004)

Driver's license, graduations, hunting license's, voting/drinking, age promotions to higher sports levels are the only formal 'rites of passage' that I can think of that are part of the youth to adulthood cycle.  Informal ones would be like lose of virginity/first romantic relationship (dating), first fight, first 'trip out alone', staying home alone when family goes on vacation....

There doesn't seem to be a lot of 'ritual' in these 'rites' to mark the phases of growth in our culture.  The military makes everything a ceremony - boring at times, but it does lend a significance to the change/occasion.  Belt testing could be similar to a rite of passage for martial artists.  

This reminded me of the ideas raised by movies/books like 'Fight Club' (I am NOT promoting the idea, only recognizing the inspiration/need that the stories draw from).


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## jkn75 (Mar 11, 2004)

You bring up some very good points. It's a good way to look at Martial Arts in a different light other than the traditional self-defense/spiritual development paths. 

IMO, people join martial arts for all of these reasons. Some people do have a vested interest in self-defense/spiritual development. They may try a bunch of different arts, yet they don't worry about politics or any of the "my art is better than your art" arguments. 



> Some (predominately male) struck me as the geeky kid at school who took MA to make themselves cool/macho/somebody to be respected instead of picked on. Some of the more advanced people, people with jobs, families, kids and many other hobbies seem to get all wrapped up in the politics, in-fighting and @!%&-measuring contests that the martial arts can turn into. Why is that? Could it be that these folks need something....something more than their "everyday" lives to provide them with some form of "vitality", some type of self-worth?


One would think that just being in MA would fulfill these needs. Unfortunately, if you look at the martial arts, people aren't just happy training. They want to defend their art to the end (some other boards call this 'nutriding') to the detriment of every other. So instead of good solid thought into the differences in arts, history, or techniques, we get into arguments about whether a gi is necessary training equipment or an outdated set of pajamas. Why? Because we want to convince ourselves that we have made the right choice. We do not like to find out that our training was a waste of time. We have spent time and money to get to a certain level of proficiency and if that were to somehow all crash down we would feel lost, betrayed etc. 

Sometimes these arguments are just fun. We come to this and other boards in order to find out information and to exhange ideas. Sometimes we just put out a statement to see what happens. But we also put information about bad schools and instructors. We have taken it upon ourselves to flush this out. We have picked certain factors that we know make bad martial arts. But then there are all kinds of other factors that could be considered not good in our own art or organization but there are other things that are OK. So we try to defend these not good things and promote the good. 



> During my long and varied education, I remember some anthropology courses that mentioned some of the "manhood" rites that marked a boys passage from boy to man, jumping from platforms, vision quests, scarring and other rituals. Our society has nothing really. Boys either pursue some form of fantasy life (a la "ninja craze"), join gangs or wait until they are old enough to enlist. I believe the martial arts plays a role in the process too and maybe a safe/good one.
> So what do you think? Is there more to peoples interest in the martial arts than self-defense/exercise/spiritual development/ yadda yadda yadda? Is there some sort of "deeper need" that we are looking to fulfill?


Yes, there is some deeper meaning. It may not be the same for everyone: confidence, belief in self, ability to learn, ability to teach, to name a few. These are the people who tend to stay in martial arts after black belt. Getting the balck belt is also a goal. It is a rite of passage. Some people feel that's the end, to some a beginning, very similar to a rite. It is a safe way to do so. People are in a controlled situation and can accomplish a set goal. They have a set of criteria to pass and a rough timeline to do so. Because our society is no longer dependant on hunting and gathering, there is no set time to begin this rite. 

We have other rites, military, etc, that have more set timelimits and more rigid factors. I can't speak of those because I don't have that experience but your post raises some interesting issues about these areas, too.


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## Tgace (Mar 11, 2004)

Sometimes I worry that people place so much of "themselves" in things like the martial arts that they loose touch with what is important in life. 

But,IMHO, (espically as a male) there is some form of validation as "men" that we seem to need and attacks on the institutions that make us tough/cool/authority figures/etc. result in defensive overreactions. I dont think theres any way around it though after eons of testosterone driven evolution. And some of the more noble traits of courage, self-sacrifice, service, honor and defending those in need stem from the same source.


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## markulous (Mar 11, 2004)

Pride, envy, jealousy, hate, greed, etc. will always be around.  In martial arts, in anything.


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## Genin Andrew (Aug 6, 2004)

This is a great post and well done to TGACE for pulling it together.I guess i wouldnt be the only one to think that this thread could go on forever.So i'll join the bandwagon and throw in my 2 cents.

Obviously everybody starts their martial arts journey for different reasons.And i dont really want to speak for others so i'll just be open about my reasons.I have been doing martial arts for a fair few years and through my time have been exposed to many different techniques,philosophies,religions and "ways" to live.

Martial arts like the military teaches great discipline and respect which is something this world needs alot more of.There are also many other great qualities.This may sound a little corny but i try and live a balance between the old ways and traditions and the new.Meaning i have been brought up in a very materialistic world but also appreciate and feel connections with older philosophies,but i could ramble on forever about that...

What keeps me in martial arts is the fact that it offers an alternative lifestyle or way of looking at life that many people will never understand.Because many arts focus on traditional ways,one gains alot of traditional values and finds themselves questioning what is right today and the important things in our lives.And after trying to live "warrior" ways and practice/study "warrior" arts i have learnt that the most important things in my life are the most simple things.The natural environment(which i have gained great respect and appreciation for)relationships and spiritual development.I try my best to not conform to modern society and detach from the most intense material values but its a very difficult path to go down...

I got a little sidetracked    so i apologize. My main reasons to studying martial arts is to develop my spiritual side,learn to defend myself and others, health and fitness reasons,historical interests but mainly as an alternative to the "conventional" lifestyles and values of modern people.

If you took the time,effort and patience to read this i appreciate it!

much repect
-andrew


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## lonecoyote (Aug 7, 2004)

I do this in order to defend myself, which I suppose is a form of insecurity.  getting whipped as a grown man out of the blue for really no reason will make you change your priorities. I didn't feel like a  geek in high school, and didnt' feel a need for validation. I know exactly what you're saying though Tgace, as far as rites of passage. I remember after studying  kenpo for a coulple of  weeks, my instructor asked me why I hadn't asked about the schedule for promotions and belts. I told him I really only wanted to do it, martial arts, that is, and as far as promoting through the system that would be okay but that wasn't my focus. He looked at me so strangely, like I had grown another head. I now understand that the belts are a way to take a person continually deeper, but I would be just fine without them. I know who I am, I'm not arrogant and not perfect, but I'm not looking for a way of life, a way to define myself, or a way to gain more spirituality. I've already formed my opionions about those things, though I'm perfectly willing to listen to another's point of view. No offense meant, I have nothing but respect for people who are in the martial arts for those reasons, but to be honest, I'm just in it to be ready for when the shtf, and that's an okay reason too.


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## TonyM. (Aug 29, 2004)

I believe the answer to the first question could be economic oppression.


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## shesulsa (Aug 29, 2004)

Search for culture, perhaps.  Americans came here to escape their roots - another chance.  Some hung onto their heritage for a while, but very few caucasian Americans have clung to their pre-western history.  I don't know a whole lot about my Irish and German heritage and my mother's side has been here since the first few boats came over.  We make our own culture, now.

 Glory, vividness, adrenaline...the feeling of being alive.  These are things we once found in our native cultures and their traditions.  Here in America, they have faded into virtual nonexistance.

 Perhaps this is what we seek - some connection to ancient culture...glory days.  Perhaps reincarnation is for real and the countless asians that have perished are reincarnating on this continent.

 Who knows?


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## TigerWoman (Aug 29, 2004)

Why do we do this?
For me it evolved. Wish it would have evolved sooner.  In high school, I was never good in sports. I wasn't fat, actually thin and not much muscle.  High school PE, then in the 60's, was a two month course, two days/two hrs. a week, to pass the president's award. But somehow it got into me the importance of exercise and that it should be ranked up there next to sleeping. So, I did about 20 years of jogging/running, aerobic dancing when it was hard impact, weight lifting, swimming, biking.  Moved to Minnesota and life was suddenly too much work and sedentary.  I got a treadmill, watched my kids in TKD and my daughter cajols me into it.  I figure I would do as much as I could, but had no aspirations to test.  A board break at the fair demo changed me. I switched _on_ like in 10K's when I had to run until I dropped, and started to really work at this art of TKD, one goal after another. I think it takes a driven person to be in martial arts.  I've been called driven when I worked for an ad agency. Why kill yourself to break a board with your instep when you've seen it hurt others?  Why in your late forties do you need to feel you can reach any goal you set for?  I guess to just feel you're not ready to be labeled a senior citizen. What a shock that was to get a AARP letter at 48. Probably why I don't join now. Go away.  Yes, I'm a baby boomer.  But in better physical health than when I was 20 except for my knees. 

But its more than physical capability.  I would be lying to say it hasn't given me an identity.  I seem to have lost mine as a graphic artist -- retired from that after too difficult a work schedule/too long hours.  So it did fill that nicely.  But not at first, I was a nobody for two years until I proved I was "serious".  But how serious do others take you when you are nearing 50?  Usually when they see testing and breaking, when they get a kick in the midsection, when I am still going on those 5000 front kicks in 50 min. and they stopped at 500...(and I finish) 

But its more than that too. I don't do it for self defense although I could use it.  I don't do for spiritual growth, I have God for that. Has TKD changed my morals? No, but I've had to realize how deeply they go and the price that goes with them.  I would keep going even if I had to scale it down, for teaching if somehow the situation changes and I can teach again (yet to be seen). I would like to give back the joy that the art of war has given me. Ironic statement that.  Yes, it does give me that feeling of being alive, of self assurance, of self-worth, of knowing there is a future yet to "live". To know that I have the "power" of youth and the wisdom of age to not give up what you love. TW


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## MisterMike (Aug 31, 2004)

I started in High School with the hopes I would be able to defend myself. Through college it changed into more of an education, and I began to recognize it as a life-long endeavor. One that I would have stopped being a broke college kid for in order to get a job to pay for more classes had my parents not stepped in and talked a little sense in me.

At the end of college I began to assist teaching to see if that was realllly what I wanted to do or just keep training for myself. I now have a school of my own and could not be happier. I also have worked for 2 of the #1 software companies in the world but it is not as rewarding and satisfying as the Martial Arts. A job pays bills but there are few that anyone could make a life of. I've begun to think that this was all planned for me, and if I can bring about positive change and light up my small corner of Earth through the Arts, what could be better?


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## tsunami (Oct 8, 2004)

I agree with Shesulsa, However I began martial arts again as an adult because after years of working nightshift and doing solitary triathilon training. I felt I was becoming too socialy isolated. I did not respect the lifestyles of my co-workers (due to an alcoholic family background) so I tried to associate myself with people I felt I could repect. This blossomed into so much more. I see what Tgrace means about prioritys. For awhile martial arts was top priority for me but after a number of years I calmed down. Don't get me wrong, after almost thirteen years It is still very important to me but it is a little more in perspective. Between family, work and chores, it is a labor of love to continue. Participating in an activity that works both my body and mind gives me great pleasure. It remains something I want to do for my entire life.


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## LateBloomer (Oct 14, 2004)

I discovered MA at the gym. I immediately feel the pleasure of doing a physical activity that is soooo satisfying. MA is like a lot of the things that people find satisfying such as art or music or sports. You know when you feel the passion and know that this is right for you.

It's not a rite of passage, nor insecurity, nor need for defense, nor spirituality that find me at MA at 42 years of age. It's the feeling of zen that I have when I played volleyball (no longer do that), or when I ski (still do). It's the challenge of learning something that involves techniques (applied physics; action/reaction), mental focus, and has beautiful body movements as well as the reward of doing something well. I devour instructions to unlock the secret that would help me meet my goals; to be the best I can be at that sport. THAT is the need that I have that motivates me in MA. Not everyone has that drive (or it is suppressed) and (IMHO) those in MA, do. I think it's intrinsic and some find it in MA.


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## Ronald R. Harbers (Oct 14, 2004)

Today, if I had a young mind to direct, to start on the journey of life, and I was faced with the duty of choosing between Bushido or the present way of civilization, I would, for the sake of that young persons welfare, unhesitatingly set that child's feet in the path of the Martial Arts. I would raise him/her to be a warrior.


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