# Tang Soo Do  / Moo Duk Kwan



## Brother John (Oct 6, 2002)

I studied Tae Kwan Do Moo Duk Kwan for some time before I'd ever hear of Tang Soo Do. (I was a teenager for the few years I studied it)

I asked my instructor about the connection between these two arts...
he said :
#1 history has never been his strong suit.
#2 He believes that they used to be (almost) the same system, but somehow broke apart.
I have not practiced this style for some time, but I was wondering what the connection is.

This is probably one for my brother Shinzu to jump on. :asian: 
Your Brother
John


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## karatekid1975 (Oct 6, 2002)

I did TSD MDK before I did TKD. From what I can see (I do WTF TKD now), TSD MDK and TKD MDK is pretty much the same thing, except the "term" is different.

What the "rumor" was and some history stated that a big-wig wanted to unite all the "kwans" of Korea under one org. Hwang Kee (TSD creator) refused. So TKD MDK was formed without him, but some of his students did make the switch. Then different "forms" of TKD were created from there. This is the short version of the history/rumors out there.

I wasn't much into the political part of TSD or TKD (I'm still not). I just wanted to train. I just know I loved TSD a lot (still do), and I'm also enjoying TKD, so that's all that matters to me   Someday I will do TSD again, but for now, TKD is my thing.


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## Shinzu (Oct 20, 2002)

i beleive karatekid is correct.

hwang kee refused to help unite all the "kwans" because it would have required him to hand over his authority to conduct black-belt certifications and to determine his schools curriculum.  in his view, it would have turned his art into a sport. 

believing that would extinguish tradition and limit his students' capacity for spiritual and mental growth, he chose to do it alone.

thus producing other sytems such as TKD MDK.


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## karatekid1975 (Oct 20, 2002)

Yes, Shinzu. That's what I heard how Hwang Kee felt about it. He did not want TSD a sport. He wanted to keep it traditional. And it still is to this day (as far as I know LOL). One of these years, I'll get back into TSD, and I hope by then that it is still traditional like my TSD dojang is (I still train there when I visit my home state NJ)


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## Shinzu (Oct 21, 2002)

that's what i like about TSD also (not knocking sport karate at all).  i am a very traditional orientated martial artist.  i don't mind competitions and events, in fact i look forward to them!  i like the knowledge, history, and philosophy behind an art.  shotokan was very traditional also.  i try to live by a certain code also.  that is what seperates us from the others.  it's not just a martial art... it's a martial way.


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## karatekid1975 (Oct 21, 2002)

I totally agree Shinzu   I do miss the "tradition" of TSD. TKD isn't bad, but I am also a "traditionalist". I make do with what ever training I can get right now, and my TKD dojang isn't all that bad, so I work with it. But I do "crave" tradition still.


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## Shinzu (Oct 22, 2002)

what tradition / history / philosophy is behind TKD?  i am not very familiar with it, but i would like to learn more about it


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## karatekid1975 (Oct 22, 2002)

I don't know much about it yet. All I know that WTF TKD is only 20 years old (or at least the Taeguk hyung). TKD MDK is almost as old as TSD, and uses a lot of the same forms (just different names). I don't know much at all about the ITF TKD. I guess I should do some research on TKD LOL.


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## KennethKu (Oct 23, 2002)

If you are interested in ITF and WTF history.

http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/SECTION2_History.html

The navigation is a bit weird. Just go with the GOTO Section Nav bar on the left hand column.

Have fun .  As always, read this kind of info as " as told by so and so...." ,  not to be taken as the final authority on the subject.


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## Brother John (Oct 23, 2002)

I will look into that. 
Though I no longer practice TKD, it was a good time in my life and my martial arts progression.
thanks again...
Your Brother
John


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## karatekid1975 (Oct 23, 2002)

Thanks Kenneth  I'll look into it also.


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## KennethKu (Oct 24, 2002)

Brother John  and Karatekid,

Glad to be of help

Kenneth


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