# Training on blood thinners



## drummingman (Jul 26, 2017)

It's been a bit since I posted. Last year I was doing Shotokan karate but I was diagnosed with a blood clot. So I had to stop. The clot has long since been gone, but, I have to be on blood thinners for life as it was my second clot.

My doc told me that I can only do a striking art. I can hit bags, pads, etc. But I can't be hit because of risk of internal bleeding that could kill me.

My question is can a person really train for self defense without contact (sparing and what not)? If so what striking art would be best?

Thanks


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## Hyoho (Jul 26, 2017)

Choose an art where there is no striking. Its a big step moving from one art to another but in your case perhaps you have little choice.


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## Reedone816 (Jul 26, 2017)

Go grappling...
But even grappling is still prone to injuries, dislocation even...

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## drummingman (Jul 26, 2017)

I was told not to do a grappling art, only a striking art.


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## Reedone816 (Jul 26, 2017)

Then look for soft style striking if you don't mind traditional.
But generally you just inform the instructor about your condition, and ask the best way to train.

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## JowGaWolf (Jul 26, 2017)

You can but you have to have a trusted partner. Literally someone you can trust enough to put your life in their hands. You will still need to get an OK from your doctor because you need to know the maximum level of contact that your body can handle.  The purpose is so you can stay far away from that level.  

There's 2 ways you can do this.  Partner shadow boxing where you use your partner in front as a visual target.   The goal is not to make contact by standing as far as you need.  Have your partner air punch at you and you react to what you see.  You will do the same.  Remember the goal isn't to hit each other.  The goal is to react to what you see.  This type of training requires you to be honest.  If it looks like a punch would have hit you, then acknowledge it and adjust.  

As you do this pay attention to your partner's movement.  Try to pick up your Partner's patterns and Tale - tell signs.  Even though you aren't making contact you are building useful awareness skills.   You are training to get used to how punches and kicks directed to you look.  Remember to stay far enough so the kicks won't hit you.   Now for the contact exercise

For contact you may be able to use swimming noodles to simulate haymakers and kicks.  You just need to check with your doctor to make sure.  Even if you have to bring a swim noodle to hit you doctor with or he can hit himself.  This will help him have a realistic feel for the force of the impact.

Beyond that I don't think you can do more.  You won't be able to spar. It's not worth the risk.


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## Thisposthuman (Jul 27, 2017)

I am in a similar situation, recently put om blood thinners and trying to find out the limits of acceptable training.  i didnt have a clot, i was put on for other reasons...i made an appointment with a sport medicine doctor so i can get advice from someone with sports experience...without a doctor sign off, pad work is likely that limit. an extemely gentle & understanding sparring partner perhaps.


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## drummingman (Jul 27, 2017)

Thank you all for the replies.

I've been told by some that one can't learn self defense without contact and sparring. But because of my situation I have to find a way.


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## Hyoho (Jul 27, 2017)

Aikido


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## Thisposthuman (Jul 27, 2017)

drummingman said:


> Thank you all for the replies.
> 
> I've been told by some that one can't learn self defense without contact and sparring. But because of my situation I have to find a way.



you can learn self defense you just wont be able to practice application at full speed/strength...I looked into aikido, but there is only one school intown and its forever away amd only open once a week.


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## drummingman (Jul 27, 2017)

Would not Aikido still be considered grappling? And with the throws landing on my head would be bad news for a possible brain bleed.


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## tubby (Jul 27, 2017)

I've been on blood thinners from the start of the year - lot of small clots in the leg due to cancer and treatments. My haematologist was aware I trained and never made any mention of issues continuing. Certainly minor scratches make a hell of a stain on white doboks though, and clexane leaves me with impressive looking bruises.

Plenty of striking style schools do not train with hard contact, many school train no contact. Ask your doctor what level of striking he considers an issue, even non contact training runs a risk of a mistimed hit.


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## Thisposthuman (Jul 27, 2017)

drummingman said:


> Would not Aikido still be considered grappling? And with the throws landing on my head would be bad news for a possible brain bleed.




yea, anything is possibl.  Bottom line, its up to your doctor.


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## Hyoho (Jul 28, 2017)

drummingman said:


> Would not Aikido still be considered grappling? And with the throws landing on my head would be bad news for a possible brain bleed.



First thing I guess you are taught like judo is how to fall on a matt with hurting yourself. It's your choice and if you are that keen on MA/ Budo I am sure you will find a way. The arts can be more cultural rather than attack/defend. Japan does view them more as cultural activity.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 28, 2017)

drummingman said:


> Thank you all for the replies.
> 
> I've been told by some that one can't learn self defense without contact and sparring. But because of my situation I have to find a way.


You can learn self defense without contact and sparring,  it just won't be as extensive there will be gaps in your understanding of how to apply some of the techniques in a real situation.  To be honest anyone who has to take blood thinners should be creating their self-defense action plan based on the challenges that blood thinners create.  Being on blood thinners and getting into a physical fight there hard punches are being thrown isn't the best case scenario even if that person wins.


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## frank raud (Jul 28, 2017)

Try to find a sports doctor, preferably one with experience in martial arts. I had a major heart attack 10 years ago, have a stent and was on Plavix for a couple of years. After recuperating, I was able to get back on the mats. I was doing jiu jitsu at the time, with striking, throwing and grappling.  Let me qualify this statement, I AM NOT A DOCTOR, but I think you would have to be hit very hard for internal bleeding to be a concern. When you cut yourself accidently with a knife or while shaving, does the blood not coagulate at all, or just slower than previously?


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## Thisposthuman (Jul 28, 2017)

**for reference purpose**
i was put of eloquis blood thinner,  2 days in, i got a deep puncture wound from exposed nail on my fence...It was no different(strictly in the realm of blood loss) than any other cut or flesh wound I had ever in my life.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 28, 2017)

frank raud said:


> Try to find a sports doctor, preferably one with experience in martial arts. I had a major heart attack 10 years ago, have a stent and was on Plavix for a couple of years. After recuperating, I was able to get back on the mats. I was doing jiu jitsu at the time, with striking, throwing and grappling.  Let me qualify this statement, I AM NOT A DOCTOR, but I think you would have to be hit very hard for internal bleeding to be a concern. When you cut yourself accidently with a knife or while shaving, does the blood not coagulate at all, or just slower than previously?


Seconding this recommendation. A regular GP may have very little idea of the realistic risks involved with martial arts or other contact sports and may be you overly restrictive guidance in an effort to avoid liability. A sports medicine specialist with experience in contact sports will probably have a better idea of what is actually safe.


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## Phobius (Jul 28, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Seconding this recommendation. A regular GP may have very little idea of the realistic risks involved with martial arts or other contact sports and may be you overly restrictive guidance in an effort to avoid liability. A sports medicine specialist with experience in contact sports will probably have a better idea of what is actually safe.



But do always stay away from bladed arts


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 28, 2017)

You'll be fine training, if you're smart. You won't want to do heavy bag work and sparring is right out. Forms, partner drills, low-impact bag work will all be fine.

Source: 35 years in the ER and a Masters in physiology.


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## drummingman (Jul 29, 2017)

What styles would be best for me? Boxing, Muay Thai, etc? Also, what partner drills and forms would you suggest?

In a way having to be able to do as much as I can on my own by myself and stay sharp on self defense is good. I say this because I am a professional touring musician. So I pretty much never have training partners to work with.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 29, 2017)

I'll just add something to what others have said. The stricture away from grappling arts seems odd to me. There may be something the more medically-informed here can point out, but I can't imagine Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu would be more dangerous in terms of bleeding than very light striking work. You'd probably want to avoid the harder Judo-type falls, but ground grappling (BJJ) and softer grappling arts (some types of Aikido, for instance) would be less likely to produce deep bruising than most striking work (other than solo work).


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## Jenna (Jul 29, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> You'll be fine training, if you're smart. You won't want to do heavy bag work and sparring is right out. Forms, partner drills, low-impact bag work will all be fine.
> 
> Source: 35 years in the ER and a Masters in physiology.


What would be potential issues with going some on the bag? thank you


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 2, 2017)

Jenna said:


> What would be potential issues with going some on the bag? thank you



Bruising. Joint effusions possibly. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but it could be needlessly painful.
I've got a big sore bruise on my hand today because I held a stack of boards for a promotional exam yesterday. Didn't think about it. Wouldn't have the bruise if not for the coumadin.


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## Jenna (Aug 3, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> Bruising. Joint effusions possibly. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but it could be needlessly painful.
> I've got a big sore bruise on my hand today because I held a stack of boards for a promotional exam yesterday. Didn't think about it. Wouldn't have the bruise if not for the coumadin.


Thank you! Ha yes spectacular bruise used to have awesomest war story attach to it now be like how in hell did you get that? I just waken up with it pffft.. And you can say random nosebleed without getting punch in the face that is not unusual either on warfarin/coumadin true yes??


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 3, 2017)

Jenna said:


> Thank you! Ha yes spectacular bruise used to have awesomest war story attach to it now be like how in hell did you get that? I just waken up with it pffft.. And you can say random nosebleed without getting punch in the face that is not unusual either on warfarin/coumadin true yes??


Hell, I never have good war stories for injuries.  Most of my obvious injuries happen outside the dojo. For example, I refer to my battle with the ninja spider named Inigo, which I detailed in MT sometime last year.


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