# LE guy looking for direction



## Blue Panther (Feb 7, 2007)

First of all, I'd like to say hello to all...I'm new to the MT forums and look forward to the shared wisdom.  I'm curious if there are any users in the field of Law Enforcement and, more specifically, if there's an area/forum specific to cops.  I'm novice to the Martial Arts, having practiced Kempo and most recently have begun practicing Bando.  I'd like to hear from others in LE as to what styles you have found to be more 'practical / tactical'.  I'd like to hone my skills in the most practical of applications to my field.  As you may know, LE Defensive Tactics are not always regularly available for practice, due mainly to budgetary constraints, and I would like to find a system that I can truly achieve 'practical reward' from.

Thank you...


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## MJS (Feb 7, 2007)

Welcome to Martial Talk! 

As for your question.  No, there is no LEO specific area, however, there are a number of folks here who come from a LEO/Security background.  Feel free to look thru the General Martial arts and General SD sections.  There are also specific areas for the discussions of firearms and knives, as well as an extensive FMA section.  We have alot of skilled people in the Kenpo sections as well.

Feel free to start some threads! 

Mike


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## Drac (Feb 7, 2007)

Greetings Brother..There is no LE section here yet..The handfull of LEO's that hang out here find answers to their questions among the many Threads and by using the Search option...Asking 100 MA what system/discipline they recommend to achieve a "practical reward and you're going to get 100 answers...


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## shesulsa (Feb 7, 2007)

Hello, and welcome to MartialTalk!

It appears to me that everyone is different and there are effective techniques to be had from many systems if taught properly and a handful of teachers who are qualified to teach law enforcement.  I think each person, LE or not, needs to find what "speaks" to them and their individual learning ability.

I've seen good advice and good techniques shown by some Kenpoists, some MMAists, some KMA people, some Judo people.

But there are a handful of people on the LE profession here.  Feel free to start threads in the General Self Defense area, General Martial Arts Talk area, or the weapons area for stuff that seems ... well, general. 

Enjoy!


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## Andrew Green (Feb 7, 2007)

Most Martial arts aren't really designed well for law enforcement, in fact I imageine a good amount of what martial artists due would be a very bad idea for a LEO to do.  Knee groin, gouge eyes, break bones, etc.

My opinion would be a sport based grappling art is your best bet, probably one that focuses on controlling a person, and with a good amount of clinch work.  Judo or Greco-Roman/Freestyle wrestling would make nice choices IMO.  With a little boxing tossed in to learn to protect yourself from strikes.


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## terryl965 (Feb 7, 2007)

Welcome and happy posting


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## INDYFIGHTER (Feb 7, 2007)

We have several LE's who train at my Kempo/JKD school.  I've seen them training in Kempo, jujitsu, silat/escrima, jkd, and kickboxing.


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## Cruentus (Feb 7, 2007)

Welcome to MT! 

I am not an LE guy, but I almost exclusively train in what would be considered "practical/tactical" combat systems. Because of this, I cross paths, and am friends and colleagues with many Law Enforcement professionals. Besides my own company, I am proud to say that I am on staff with LiveSafeAcademy, an Michigan Coalition Of Law Enforcement Standards approved outfit, which has some of the most highly trained professionals, many of whom wear the badge and work in the feild as officers every day.

Not to mention, there are a few LE professionals here on this board.

So, I and others would be happy to offer any advice that we can...


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## Kacey (Feb 7, 2007)

Welcome, and happy posting!  :wavey:


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## kidswarrior (Feb 7, 2007)

Welcome! I interact with LE quite a bit in my day job of working with ('teaching') adjudicated teens. Also work toward keeping kids from any further negative involvement with LE (wrong choices). Have now kind of formed the opinion that in California at least, strikes can lead to problems for LEO's and PO's, so most are looking for good locks, holds, and takedowns. 

The MA community actually has a lot to offer in these areas. Glad you're here to share your experience and be a part of the community.


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## Ping898 (Feb 7, 2007)

Welcome to MT....I am not in LE so others here can give you better advice than me....Good luck!


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## Blue Panther (Feb 7, 2007)

[*quote=Andrew Green;718820]Most Martial arts aren't really designed well for law enforcement, in fact I imageine a good amount of what martial artists due would be a very bad idea for a LEO to do. Knee groin, gouge eyes, break bones, etc.*

*My opinion would be a sport based grappling art is your best bet, probably one that focuses on controlling a person, and with a good amount of clinch work. Judo or Greco-Roman/Freestyle wrestling would make nice choices IMO. With a little boxing tossed in to learn to protect yourself from strikes.[/quote]*

I agree most aren't _*designed* _for LE, however, many principles are applied through a mix of applications to Defensive Tactics training for LE. The idea being to extrapulate what techniques work in the real world and the _bottom line being to go home at the end of your tour of duty..._

I appreciate the response...it's difficult to toe the fine line between order and chaos. It's also good to have tools in the toolbox as long as you have the discipline to know which ones you can draw upon. Again though, the _bottom line_ factor would dictate that you empty the toolbox when necessary...


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## shesulsa (Feb 7, 2007)

Most of the elements in traditional martial arts are not applicable on patrol.  You don't side-kick a perp to the head.  It's a no-brainer.

If you are going to seek out anyone to supplement your training, whoever they are and whatever martial art or fighting style they teach, the instructor should be skilled and knowledgeable with experience in:

local codes
contain/control
pain compliance
tactical offense and defense
_weapon retention, deployment and defense_
escalation of force specific for your precinct
hand-to-hand and close-quarters combat skills

You'll need some ground work for taking them down and keeping them there.

There's no way - sorry - you can litmus test who will be the best for this based on what style they teach or if they are TMA or MMA or CYA on the QT, PDQ, ASAP.

You need to ask around - spend time talking with these folks, go to their schools, interview them, work with them a little.  Take time in picking the right one and ask about their background; do what you can to verify it.

Good luck, good training and stay safe.


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## KempoGuy06 (Feb 7, 2007)

Welcome to MT!

B


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## 14 Kempo (Feb 7, 2007)

Hello and welcome to MT! 

I am strictly trained in Kempo, but I agree with a few on here, grappling or arts that aim to control the opponent seem to be the likely way to go for LE. Maybe Aikido for stand up, Judo to get them to the ground, Jujitsu to control them on the ground. Never hurts to have some boxing ... I would suggest a bit of Kempo, but some/most Kempo systems can take some time to grasp the idea of not only using your hands and feet, but how to position yourself to control your opponent.

Anyway, good luck!


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## ArmorOfGod (Feb 7, 2007)

You know, I think that is a legitimate suggestion for this forum: a sub-forum for security law enforcement.  If Bob is reading this--what do you think?

BTW, hello Blue Panther.  Welcome to the group.   This is a great community to be part of.

Have you heard of these associations:
http://www.wkf.org/psdi.html : Police Self Defense Institute
http://www.ichf.com/ : Police Hapkido Federation (look about halfway down)

I don't know anything about them, but thought you may be interested in them.

AoG


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## ArmorOfGod (Feb 7, 2007)

Oh, one more thing.  There was a system I read about a few years back called PoliceDo.  Here is the book written about the style:
http://www.amazon.com/Policedo-Official-Police-Method-Self-Defense/dp/1581125968
The guy used to have a website (his last name is Devlin) where he was selling videos and offered rank testing in his system.  That seems to have disapeared, and the link listed at the MA usenet group to his mailing list is now dead, so I don't know what has happened there.
Still, go check that book out and that may give you some leads.

AoG


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## Tames D (Feb 7, 2007)

Welcome. You have chosen a tough profession and you have my respect and best wishes.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 7, 2007)

Welcome, 

I'm not an LE but a good friend of mine is and he likes Bagua and Aikido 

I also know there is an MMA school in my area (BJJ and Muay Thai actually) and it is loaded with LEs (I beleive a lot of the local SWAT team goes there) and there is a Combat Hapkido place that is also got a few.

One of the style I train is non-sports sanda/sanhou and it is used by the Police and military in China.


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## Jonathan Randall (Feb 7, 2007)

*Welcome to Martial Talk!*


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## Drac (Feb 8, 2007)

ArmorOfGod said:


> You know, I think that is a legitimate suggestion for this forum: a sub-forum for security law enforcement. If Bob is reading this--what do you thinkAoG


 
Not a bad idea...Gotta watch out for trolls..They ALWAYS seem attracted to that type of section, and come up with the most asinine questions imaginable..


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## rutherford (Feb 8, 2007)

Suspended already?

Ok.  Bye!


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## Drac (Feb 8, 2007)

ArmorOfGod said:


> Have you heard of these associations:
> http://www.ichf.com/ : Police Hapkido Federation (look about halfway down)AoG


 
Yep..It's called the IPDTI (International Police Defensive Tactics Institute) of which I and Father Greek are licensed instructors..It contains many elements of the Combat Hapkido curriculum...


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 8, 2007)

Welcome to Martial Talk! Lot's of LEO's here.  Enjoy the board!


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 8, 2007)

rutherford said:


> Suspended already?
> 
> Ok. Bye!


 
Wow... here today, gone tomorrow I guess... or would that be here yesterday gone today...whatever...bye


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## kcast (Feb 8, 2007)

I am a LEO and I'm studying Shaolin Kempo Karate with a 5th degree Black belt, who is now like a family member, and in my opinion I like the different options that SKK offers.  Realistically an eye gouge, groin strike, strike to the throat is not practical, in some circumstances it might be, but like you said, having the tools in the toolbox and knowing when to use them is important...oh and welcome!


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## Cruentus (Feb 8, 2007)

It always sparks my curiousity when someone gets suspended after 3 posts, and none of those posts seem to warrent it. I know it could be for a lot of things, like invalid e-mail or incomplete registration info or something like that, but it's still just weird.


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## exile (Feb 8, 2007)

Cruentus said:


> It always sparks my curiousity when someone gets suspended after 3 posts, and none of those posts seem to warrent it. I know it could be for a lot of things, like invalid e-mail or incomplete registration info or something like that, but it's still just weird.



Me too, C. My first thought is, this is a previously banned user who got careless and logged in from an old IP address that gave the game away... but it _is_ very mysterious!


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## Drac (Feb 9, 2007)

kcast said:


> Realistically an eye gouge, groin strike, strike to the throat is not practical, in some circumstances it might be, but like you said, having the tools in the toolbox and knowing when to use them is important...oh and welcome!


 
and it doesn't look good on the "CruiserCam"..


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