# Saps, coin purses, blackjacks - any experience?



## Russian Whips (Aug 16, 2016)

What do you think of such type of weapon?  How effective do you think it is for self-defense?


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## drop bear (Aug 16, 2016)

Had a mate who was mad keen for punting guys he did not like in the side of the head with a radio. Dropped them pretty good.  Did generate a bit to much blood for my liking.


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## Tez3 (Aug 16, 2016)

ROFLMAO, I've had to deal with complaints before by a guy who has been hit by a slapper here but that's a whole different ball game, a slapper here is not what a slapper there is. 
Urban Dictionary: slapper


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## Midnight-shadow (Aug 16, 2016)

The items used in the video you linked are very useful, although I've never used them in self-defense (I use them for more....recreational purposes). They are great for providing pain in an efficient manner without doing any serious or permanent damage.


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## Tez3 (Aug 16, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> The items used in the video you linked are very useful, although I've never used them in self-defense (I use them for more....*recreational purposes*). They are great for providing pain in an efficient manner without doing any serious or permanent damage.



Good grief that sounds more risqué than my post did!


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## mograph (Aug 16, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> ROFLMAO, I've had to deal with complaints before by a guy who has been hit by a slapper here but that's a whole different ball game, a slapper here is not what a slapper there is.
> Urban Dictionary: slapper


Oh, my.


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## frank raud (Aug 16, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> The items used in the video you linked are very useful, although I've never used them in self-defense (I use them for more....recreational purposes). They are great for providing pain in an efficient manner without doing any serious or permanent damage.


Serious or permanent damage is exceptionally easy with a sap or blackjack, that is why they are no longer standard issue for most(all?) police forces.

The sap maker I got mine from has bumper stickers that say "Stealing childhood memories since 2005"


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## geezer (Aug 16, 2016)

mograph said:


> *Oh, my*.


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## geezer (Aug 16, 2016)

frank raud said:


> Serious or permanent damage is exceptionally easy with a sap or blackjack, that is why they are no longer standard issue for most(all?) police forces.
> 
> The sap maker I got mine from has bumper stickers that say "Stealing childhood memories since 2005"



Yep. When I was a youngster I briefly worked as a civilian employee with the Highway Patrol and later with the Sherriff's Office. Back then officers often carried them. Not any more ...for the reasons you stated. And there's a perception that such weapons are used by thugs. 

Another problem with a sap or blackjack is that they are illegal for civilians to carry most places. In my state you can carry a firearm openly or concealed without a permit, so if you really are in danger, why would you carry something like that if it's illegal and can get you into a lot of trouble?


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## Russian Whips (Aug 16, 2016)

The saps I collect and have custom made are genuine leather pouches I fill with lead shot.  
Lately I've tried new design you'll see demonstrated by my friend in a video below.  I took a piece of gargen hose, glued in a lead 12" bullet in the tip, filled it up with buckshot and had it wrapped up and stiched up in leather, added a strap and voila - a "sausage" sap appeared.  It combines the advantages of a sap and short whip or a baton but in a good way


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## Russian Whips (Aug 16, 2016)

Some of the techniques he uses are not typical of sap proper, but rather are of short whip arsenal


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## Russian Whips (Aug 16, 2016)

Sausage sap is shorter then nagaika whip (although i have one  50 cm sap and can order even longer ones) but it can be used pretty much in the same way as nagaika


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## Russian Whips (Aug 16, 2016)

geezer said:


> Yep. When I was a youngster I briefly worked as a civilian employee with the Highway Patrol and later with the Sherriff's Office. Back then officers often carried them. Not any more ...for the reasons you stated. And there's a perception that such weapons are used by thugs.
> 
> Another problem with a sap or blackjack is that they are illegal for civilians to carry most places. In my state you can carry a firearm openly or concealed without a permit, so if you really are in danger, why would you carry something like that if it's illegal and can get you into a lot of trouble?



One way to go around it would be to connect some key on a ring to the strap and this way it could pass for a keychain, or at least one would have an explanation  )))


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## pgsmith (Aug 16, 2016)

Russian Whips said:


> What do you think of such type of weapon? How effective do you think it is for self-defense?


  I don't like them. They are bulky and are illegal to carry just about everywhere. They are specifically designed to injure people, very much like trying to arm yourself with a sword except with less blood.
  If someone really feels the need to carry a weapon for self-defense (the vast majority of people have no need), then a concealed carry firearm makes much more sense in my opinion.


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## Jenna (Aug 16, 2016)

Russian Whips said:


> What do you think of such type of weapon?  How effective do you think it is for self-defense?


Similar a little and but not quite the same thing I have a paracord monkey fist on my keys.  Good thing is you can make it your self.  Can be wrapped around a nice old BB or can be wrapped around just a stone or some thing lying around.  It can be extended to give it more of a whip or even a garotte.


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## geezer (Aug 16, 2016)

_*


Russian Whips said:



			Some of the techniques he uses are not typical of sap proper, but rather are of short whip arsenal







Click to expand...

*_
*Sausage sap? *Why carry an illegal sausage sap when you could protect yourself just as well with a perfectly legal _dildo_??? See below at about 1:26 --


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## frank raud (Aug 16, 2016)

Russian Whips said:


> One way to go around it would be to connect some key on a ring to the strap and this way it could pass for a keychain, or at least one would have an explanation  )))


Walk into a police station, and show them a sap with keys, see if they agree with you. If I attached keys to a .45 caliber revolver, do you think I could pass it off as a key chain, because I always have trouble finding my keys?


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## Buka (Aug 16, 2016)

Got a pair of SAP gloves for a gift back in the day. Pretty cool to play with, but I wouldn't use them on the job, too much downside.

But great for challenging friends to a dual.


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

geezer said:


> *Sausage sap? *Why carry an illegal sausage sap when you could protect yourself just as well with a perfectly legal _dildo_??? See below at about 1:26 --




That was funny, thanx!  Well, a dildo can work too, especially big and heavy one (huge black one looks almost perfect for the job ))) but I'd still prefer something more old school, something I can put in the pocket without attracking much attention.  Exposing dildo in publick in Russia will get one in trouble sooner than walking around with a sap in one's hand for sure!


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

frank raud said:


> Walk into a police station, and show them a sap with keys, see if they agree with you. If I attached keys to a .45 caliber revolver, do you think I could pass it off as a key chain, because I always have trouble finding my keys?



Well that's whole other subject.  I'd rather discuss sap's effectiveness as a self protection weapon than the leagal impications.  I am not a lawyer.


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> So, I'm guessing you weren't actually seeking opinions as your original post implied. Instead, you're simply advertising your wares?
> 
> That's not cool!



Why?  Whatever makes you think so it's your opinion. I am genuinely interested in the subject and keep exploring the different ideas of saps and coin purses because I really think they are very effective and (in case of coin purses) fairly legal ways to enhance one's self-defense capabilities. At the same time lack of firsthand experience of using them in a fight situation makes me fish for such experiences in the forum.


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## Juany118 (Aug 17, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> The items used in the video you linked are very useful, although I've never used them in self-defense (I use them for more....recreational purposes). They are great for providing pain in an efficient manner without doing any serious or permanent damage.



You can easily lacerate the scalp with a black jack or slap jack (slappers especially due to the seam).  You can even fracture a skull.


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## Juany118 (Aug 17, 2016)

I actually suggest to anyone who asks about one of those "get an expandable baton, preferably one that has a positive lock vs friction and train with it" for the following reasons.

1. If you are going to use such a tool for striking self defense the other party better have some sort of weapon or have you completely out matched size wise.  A Baton allows you to block and parry as well.

2. You can get batons that when collapsed aren't much longer (if at all) than a black jack but when expanded they give more reach.

3. The expandable baton also provides you with control options.

5. A positive lock baton allows you to thrust with no danger of collapsing the baton.


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> I actually suggest to anyone who asks about one of those "get an expandable baton, preferably one that has a positive lock vs friction and train with it" for the following reasons.
> 
> 1. If you are going to use such a tool for striking self defense the other party better have some sort of weapon or have you completely out matched size wise.  A Baton allows you to block and parry as well.
> 
> ...




My question concerning such batons is: are they legal?

Then, I think metal batons are dangerous because they cause serious damage immediately (if you strike somebody over the head with metal rod you can fracture the scull even if you never intended.  

Saps on the other hand seem less lethal, they would knock out but not injure as much as metal stick


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## Juany118 (Aug 17, 2016)

Russian Whips said:


> My question concerning such batons is: are they legal?
> 
> Then, I think metal batons are dangerous because they cause serious damage immediately (if you strike somebody over the head with metal rod you can fracture the scull even if you never intended.
> 
> Saps on the other hand seem less lethal, they would knock out but not injure as much as metal stick



It depends on the Jurisdiction (in the US).  In my State they MAYBE legal, technically, because they aren't named specifically in statute however black jack and slap jacks are illegal explicitly.  Nunchuku in one case were not found to be a prohibited offensive weapon by the courts, and I could not find a specific baton case. As for damage a few things. 

1. Slap and black jacks have a "whipping" motion in them as well.  This actually magnifies the force beyond what one could do than say a similarly sized flashlight.
2. If it has a seam, like many slap jacks, you can actually do serious lacerations to someone, especially on the scalp.
3. Even if the above wasn't true, the circumstances under which it would be legally sound to use one are the same as the baton so why not get the flexibility to do things other than just "wack" someone.


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## Red Sun (Aug 17, 2016)

I think it'd depend on context. The problem isn't that the weapons don't work, it's that you may have trouble using them if you're already under attack. For a pre-emptive strike, to restrain someone, or to multiply your damage when you've already taken the upper hand? Sure. But, you could use a tree branch for those things just as easily.


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> It depends on the Jurisdiction (in the US).  In my State they MAYBE legal, technically, because they aren't named specifically in statute however black jack and slap jacks are illegal explicitly.  Nunchuku in one case were not found to be a prohibited offensive weapon by the courts, and I could not find a specific baton case. As for damage a few things.
> 
> 1. Slap and black jacks have a "whipping" motion in them as well.  This actually magnifies the force beyond what one could do than say a similarly sized flashlight.
> 2. If it has a seam, like many slap jacks, you can actually do serious lacerations to someone, especially on the scalp.
> 3. Even if the above wasn't true, the circumstances under which it would be legally sound to use one are the same as the baton so why not get the flexibility to do things other than just "wack" someone.



I believe my sausage sap is therefore less likely to cause unnecessary damage because it's rounded,  it can be made lighted or heavier dapending og the filler (lead shot or sand).


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

Red Sun said:


> I think it'd depend on context. The problem isn't that the weapons don't work, it's that you may have trouble using them if you're already under attack. For a pre-emptive strike, to restrain someone, or to multiply your damage when you've already taken the upper hand? Sure. But, you could use a tree branch for those things just as easily.



Or one can take a long sock put a coke can inside (or rock, baseball, soap or bunch of loose change) and use it.


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

Two self-defense keychains.  One of them - my everyday carry ))


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## frank raud (Aug 17, 2016)

Blackjacks and saps? Kinda old skool.


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## pgsmith (Aug 17, 2016)

Russian Whips said:


> Why?  Whatever makes you think so it's your opinion. I am genuinely interested in the subject and keep exploring the different ideas of saps and coin purses because I really think they are very effective and (in case of coin purses) fairly legal ways to enhance one's self-defense capabilities. At the same time lack of firsthand experience of using them in a fight situation makes me fish for such experiences in the forum.


  I disagree. You are simply trying hard to sell things that you make.

  I gave you my opinion of saps from my first hand knowledge of them being used. Saps in various forms were quite popular with the gangs where I lived back in the '70's because you could hit with full strength and not worry about twist or rebound. I personally witnessed several people killed or permanently disabled by saps. However, you had no response at all to my opinion, despite saying that was what you were looking for.

  Advertising is advertising, no matter how you attempt to disguise it.


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> I disagree. You are simply trying hard to sell things that you make.
> 
> I gave you my opinion of saps from my first hand knowledge of them being used. Saps in various forms were quite popular with the gangs where I lived back in the '70's because you could hit with full strength and not worry about twist or rebound. I personally witnessed several people killed or permanently disabled by saps. However, you had no response at all to my opinion, despite saying that was what you were looking for.
> 
> Advertising is advertising, no matter how you attempt to disguise it.



Whatever...  Thanks for sharing your personal experience!


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## frank raud (Aug 17, 2016)

Russian Whips said:


> My question concerning such batons is: are they legal?
> 
> Then, I think metal batons are dangerous because they cause serious damage immediately (if you strike somebody over the head with metal rod you can fracture the scull even if you never intended.
> 
> Saps on the other hand seem less lethal, they would knock out but not injure as much as metal stick


So, you are concerned if collapsible batons are legal, but not saps and blackjacks?


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

frank raud said:


> So, you are concerned if collapsible batons are legal, but not saps and blackjacks?



I just prefer saps thats all.  In case of coin purses legal issues just barely exist


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## drop bear (Aug 17, 2016)

Russian Whips said:


> My question concerning such batons is: are they legal?
> 
> Then, I think metal batons are dangerous because they cause serious damage immediately (if you strike somebody over the head with metal rod you can fracture the scull even if you never intended.
> 
> Saps on the other hand seem less lethal, they would knock out but not injure as much as metal stick



Depends what bat you get and how you use it.  Something like a monodock has a big rubber nub on the end.


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## Kiki (Aug 17, 2016)

I kind of fell in love with saps and jacks a while back.  From a hopelessly nerdy desire to produce a history on something no one ever has, I now have a manuscript I'm shopping around but good grief that's a long, slow process.

I obviously find them fascinating... used by Teddy Roosevelt, Al Capone, Jack Ruby and of course generations of police, sailors and even soldiers.

Legalities aside (for now), I think they occupy a unique space that has never been filled since they fell away.  Something no longer than the length from my outstretched pinky to thumb, weighing less than a pound that can break bones (jack) or produce a KO (sap) with nothing but wrist action (in practiced hands)?  That's kind of amazing.

I have an (amateurish) overview and collection vid if anyone's interested...






Didn't come here to self-promote, it's just that I almost fell out of my chair when I stumbled across this thread today.


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## Russian Whips (Aug 17, 2016)

Kiki said:


> I kind of fell in love with saps and jacks a while back.  From a hopelessly nerdy desire to produce a history on something no one ever has, I now have a manuscript I'm shopping around but good grief that's a long, slow process.
> 
> I obviously find them fascinating... used by Teddy Roosevelt, Al Capone, Jack Ruby and of course generations of police, sailors and even soldiers.
> 
> ...



Wow!  Now it was all worth it ! I mean starting the whole topic just to meet you, Kiki !  So excited to meet the likeminded sap fan!
I am eager to continue designing and creating variety of saps, coin purses and the like impact weapons and have a great base for this.  I cooperate with a leather shop which is ready to implement my ideas, like the sausage sap or the coin purse.


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## Kiki (Aug 19, 2016)

Russian Whips said:


> Wow!  Now it was all worth it ! I mean starting the whole topic just to meet you, Kiki !  So excited to meet the likeminded sap fan!
> I am eager to continue designing and creating variety of saps, coin purses and the like impact weapons and have a great base for this.  I cooperate with a leather shop which is ready to implement my ideas, like the sausage sap or the coin purse.



Same here. I definitely noticed when your products started to hit the market. The legalities in the US  are very problematic as saps and jacks had such a nefarious reputation for so long.  In New York state just carrying one is the same level of offense as someone who has exploding bullets and intends to use them!
In my state you can have them on your own property, including in your car.
Some don't care about the legal side and carry them for defense anyway but I think most of the buyers are people like me who just plain like them.


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## Tez3 (Aug 20, 2016)

Kiki said:


> I definitely noticed when your products started to hit the market



Sorry to use your post as proof but we were concerned that the OP came here to sell his products and now you've shown that he is in business. Advertising would be fine if he paid for it, free advertising at MT's expense is unfair.


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## Kiki (Aug 20, 2016)

Well I'd prefer if my post were used to further discussion on the weapons, use, pros, cons, etc. 

I don't want to spam the thread but yeah, if anyone wants to talk technique, case law, history, you name it... I'm down.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 20, 2016)

Kiki said:


> In New York state just carrying one is the same level of offense as someone who has exploding bullets and intends to use them!



Please tell me what you mean by "exploding bullets" and how the law differs for them as compared to other bullets.


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## Juany118 (Aug 20, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Please tell me what you mean by "exploding bullets" and how the law differs for them as compared to other bullets.



Well NY's law is kinda "odd".  It describes an explosive round as one that uses an explosive substance to explode or detonate upon impact.  They do exist (Hinckley used home made ones when he shot Reagan) but they are rare not only due to regulations passed after 1981 but because, when compared to expanding bullets, their "explosive" quality is far less reliable.


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## Kiki (Aug 21, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Well NY's law is kinda "odd".  It describes an explosive round as one that uses an explosive substance to explode or detonate upon impact.  They do exist (Hinckley used home made ones when he shot Reagan) but they are rare not only due to regulations passed after 1981 but because, when compared to expanding bullets, their "explosive" quality is far less reliable.



Glad you came along because I am certainly not a gun guy.  The absurdity of the law just caught my eye when doing my research.
Florida recently legalized slung-shots (essentially).  That's the first break saps,  using the term broadly, have gotten in a long time.


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## Russian Whips (Aug 23, 2016)

Glad I met Kiki here and on Youtube.  Hope this topic stays here to attract other sap enthusiasts to exchange knowlege and ideas.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 23, 2016)

Kiki said:


> I kind of fell in love with saps and jacks a while back.  From a hopelessly nerdy desire to produce a history on something no one ever has, I now have a manuscript I'm shopping around but good grief that's a long, slow process.
> 
> I obviously find them fascinating... used by Teddy Roosevelt, Al Capone, Jack Ruby and of course generations of police, sailors and even soldiers.
> 
> ...


I have one similar to that brown one with the spring handle and wrist strap (probably the 4th or 5th). Mine is black, the leather is woven, and it was carried by a police officer decades ago (a relative of my first wife).

I also have a book holder-opener that's essentially a slapjack - two lead weights (one at each end) sandwiched between leather.


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## Kiki (Aug 23, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I have one similar to that brown one with the spring handle and wrist strap (probably the 4th or 5th). Mine is black, the leather is woven, and it was carried by a police officer decades ago (a relative of my first wife).
> 
> I also have a book holder-opener that's essentially a slapjack - two lead weights (one at each end) sandwiched between leather.



Cool (on the first point)

Book holder- Just a few years back a 52 year old (female) teacher was led away from the Tampa airport in handcuffs by police because she had one of those.
Of course the poor woman had no idea what was going on and the cops got skewered in the press.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 23, 2016)

Kiki said:


> Cool (on the first point)
> 
> Book holder- Just a few years back a 52 year old (female) teacher was led away from the Tampa airport in handcuffs by police because she had one of those.
> Of course the poor woman had no idea what was going on and the cops got skewered in the press.


I can imagine. Poor lady got her Levenger box, opened it, and had no idea it was a perfect two-ended slapjack.

I'll dig up my blackjack and send you a pic of it. A very nice specimen, and in usable condition after I oiled the VERY dry leather.


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## mograph (Aug 23, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I also have a book holder-opener that's essentially a slapjack - two lead weights (one at each end) sandwiched between leather.


One of these things?

https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Leather-Book-Weight-D1130/dp/B000Y4WWZ8


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 23, 2016)

mograph said:


> One of these things?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Leather-Book-Weight-D1130/dp/B000Y4WWZ8


Pretty much. Mine's a bit shorter, but the same exact idea.


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## Buka (Aug 24, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Well NY's law is kinda "odd".  It describes an explosive round as one that uses an explosive substance to explode or detonate upon impact.  They do exist (Hinckley used home made ones when he shot Reagan) but they are rare not only due to regulations passed after 1981 but because, when compared to expanding bullets, their "explosive" quality is far less reliable.



Juany, would a Glaser Safety Slug fall under that category?

"Book weight"...that's kind of funny.


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## Juany118 (Aug 24, 2016)

Buka said:


> Juany, would a Glaser Safety Slug fall under that category?
> 
> "Book weight"...that's kind of funny.



Nope.  That round is a frangible, it doesn't have an explosive substance inside, it is essentially a hollow round filled with shrapnel that uses a polymer to contain the shrapnel.  The law literally refers to round that have some sort of chemical explosive.


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## Buka (Aug 24, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Nope.  That round is a frangible, it doesn't have an explosive substance inside, it is essentially a hollow round filled with shrapnel that uses a polymer to contain the shrapnel.  The law literally refers to round that have some sort of chemical explosive.



It's my favorite round, has been for a long time. Just wanted to check the law there. Thanks, bro.


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## Juany118 (Aug 24, 2016)

Buka said:


> It's my favorite round, has been for a long time. Just wanted to check the law there. Thanks, bro.



No worries.  I use a similar round in the pistol I have in my night stand in PA.  IMO they are awesome for home defense because they will hurt the target big time bit won't penetrate into the next room.

The Glaser was actually developed, afaik, due to issues and fears regarding over penetration and the skin of an aircraft vs damaging the bad guy.

Frangible bullet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Buka (Aug 24, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> No worries.  I use a similar round in the pistol I have in my night stand in PA.  IMO they are awesome for home defense because they will hurt the target big time bit won't penetrate into the next room.
> 
> The Glaser was actually developed, afaik, due to issues and fears regarding over penetration and the skin of an aircraft vs damaging the bad guy.
> 
> Frangible bullet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It's the only round I carry when I fly.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 24, 2016)

Here's a picture of my blackjack, with my book weight/slapjack next to it. I included a picture of the blackjack in my hand for sizing.


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## Kiki (Aug 24, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Here's a picture of my blackjack, with my book weight/slapjack next to it. I included a picture of the blackjack in my hand for sizing.



Nice condition!

Swinging a jack flail style from a lanyard like that one is an option that adds scary power to a swing.  
Also, the braided leather on the striking head would likely produce nasty cuts.
It's kind of surprising how destructive those little things can be.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 24, 2016)

Kiki said:


> Nice condition!
> 
> Swinging a jack flail style from a lanyard like that one is an option that adds scary power to a swing.
> Also, the braided leather on the striking head would likely produce nasty cuts.
> It's kind of surprising how destructive those little things can be.


It is in surprisingly good condition, especially considering it was carried daily by a beat cop back in the day. I've tried to be gentle with it, given the age of the leather (even after restoring it with a good oil), but I have taken a few swings with it, and that spring is surprisingly effective. If this was legal, I think it might be my EDC weapon.


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## Russian Whips (Nov 10, 2016)

I am back with some more (if anyone was missing )))


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## Tez3 (Nov 10, 2016)

'Russian slapper'  

If you are marketing to a worldwide market you really, really do not want to call it that. It's a couple of things that you don't want people associating with your product.


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## Russian Whips (Nov 10, 2016)

OOOps...  Its sap of course... Sap case to be exact


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## Russian Whips (Nov 10, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> If this was legal, I think it might be my EDC weapon.



Coin purse is the legal alternative!


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## Russian Whips (Nov 10, 2016)

Finger sap


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## Russian Whips (Nov 10, 2016)

Key chain


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## Russian Whips (Nov 10, 2016)

Bookmark


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## Russian Whips (Nov 10, 2016)

Keychain + keypurse


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## Kiki (Nov 10, 2016)

Russian Whips said:


> I am back with some more (if anyone was missing )))



You know you might be the only one making actual sand clubs of any kind right now.  I'll have a vid on YT once I get mine.


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## Russian Whips (Nov 11, 2016)

Belt coin purse


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## Russian Whips (Nov 11, 2016)

Kiki said:


> You know you might be the only one making actual sand clubs of any kind right now.  I'll have a vid on YT once I get mine.



Looking forward to watching your review!  Hope you like the "sausage"!


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## Ironbear24 (Nov 12, 2016)

A woman hit me with her purse once. She thought I touched her butt when it was the douchebag next to me.


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## Kickboxer101 (Nov 12, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> A woman hit me with her purse once. She thought I touched her butt when it was the douchebag next to me.


Sureee that old excuse  lol kidding


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## Transk53 (Nov 12, 2016)

I wonder if people realise that the intent of the OP is hiding the fact that certain Russian gangs have certain ideologys based on long forgotten, and unacceptable times!


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