# Kempo karate?



## Blade96

Just a question on something my Sensei said. Maybe you can tell me if he's right or wrong. I was gonna post this question on a few different MA forums to see different responses from different people.

I was talking about the fact I trained in kempo for 2 months last year and i had a black gi. I named the kempo sensei and my shotokan sensei who knew of him and his family said "He's a fraud. Kempo is chinese. and karate is japanese. He calls his schools and advertises as "Kempo Karate" and thats just fraudulent and isnt even right."

Is this true what Sensei says? I only did kempo for 2 months and really dont know a whole lot about it. But I did say that I felt and still feel that school had some characteristics of a McDojo.


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## Flying Crane

There are lots of different systems that use the term Kenpo/kempo.  Some of them are closely related and come from the same roots, others are completely unrelated but share the same name.

Kenpo Karate is a term that has been used since at least the 1950s, I wouldn't be surprised if even earlier than that.  Many of the people using this term came out of the Hawaiian kenpo of William Chow.  People like Ed Parker, who brought the kenpo he learned from CHow to the Mainland in the 1950s, use the term Karate as a tag-along, because nobody at that time knew what kenpo was.  It was simply an unfamiliar term.  So he included a term that more people of the time were familiar with, to try and avoid confusion and people wouldn't walk into his school expecting it to be a Chinese Restaurant.

The term has largely stuck, and continues to get a lot of usage.

Is it a strange compilation as a term?  Strictly speaking, yes it is and it's not exactly accurate.  But it was not done deliberately to defraud or confuse anyone.  It was actually done to give an uneducated public a perspective that they could relate to.


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## Senjojutsu

Your Shotokan sensei should be aware the_ only one true axiom_ within the Asian Martial Arts world is that the *Koreans invented everything*! And from that one source culture that all styles & techniques where either taught by or had ideas stolen by the Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, Okinawans, Vietnamese, Hawaiians ooops I forgot Thailand and Cambodia. 

_Note: The preceding paragraph was sarcasm._

I remember back in the 70s one popular saying was Ke*N*po was Chinese sourced and Ke*M*po was a Japanese-sourced style, or was it the other way around?
:uhyeah:

Now I will cut your Sensei some slack - because - anyone in this niche world of ours  there are certain phrases or terms that do become personal hot buttons  sound of nails scratching on a chalkboard. For me soke is one example. Or anyone who prefixes their style name with Combat or even worse Kombat as in Kombat Karate. 

Now the mixing of different cultural names within Martial Arts can be a legitimate red flag to possible fraud. I mean would not terms such as _British Croissant_ or _French Sauerkraut_  or using an obvious oxymoron  *"Irish Gourmet Food"*  make one wonder and ask questions?

Of course to poke the ferret and maybe get you thrown out of your Shotokan school - you could ask your Sensei about his opinions on Shotokans Karate first decade or two of history on the mainland (1922>) and the relationship amongst Gichin Funakoshi, Hironori &#332;tsuka (Wado-Ryu founder) and other notable peers back in his day.


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## Malleus

Senjojutsu said:


> or using an obvious oxymoron  *"Irish Gourmet Food"*  make one wonder and ask questions?


 
Hoi! The potato is a versatile dish y'know! You can even garnish it with smaller potatoes. Maybe cheese and ketchup too. If that isn't gourmet I don't know what is.

On the topic of Kempo I have nothing to say unfortunately, but national pride had to be defended so you'll have to forgive the intrusion. Ye'll be slagging our Guinness or our Aran sweaters next if I don't put a stop to it.


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## Blade96

senjo said:
			
		

> Of course to poke the ferret and maybe get you thrown out of your  Shotokan school - you could ask your Sensei about his opinions on  Shotokan&#8217;s Karate first decade or two of history on the mainland  (1922>) and the relationship amongst Gichin Funakoshi, Hironori  &#332;tsuka (Wado-Ryu founder) and other notable peers back in his  day.



LOL! I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole! Especially cause my  sensei's oneof those Shotokan-is-the-best type guys. Of course he would  say that though being 7th dan in shotokan. 

I've a lot of love for my sensei - wouldn't wanna do anything that might  poke the ferret as you call it. 

Now I don't mind poke him a little bit - we are friends - I actually  called him a homer because he is such a newfoundland patriot that he  think anyone newfoundland = equals good. (homer meaning anyone who roots  for the home team or local team so much they're blinded to reality.  Usually hockey fans use this term.) I teased him a bit about that but  that was all in good fun.

But as for what you said - Naw - wouldn't go there.

He's also one of those my-ma-is-the-best type guys, as I said, and I  avoid those kinds of topics, threads, posts, discussion, etc like the  plague :uhyeah:




Malleus said:


> Hoi! The potato is a versatile dish y'know! You can even garnish it with smaller potatoes. Maybe cheese and ketchup too. If that isn't gourmet I don't know what is.
> 
> On the topic of Kempo I have nothing to say unfortunately, but national pride had to be defended so you'll have to forgive the intrusion. Ye'll be slagging our Guinness or our Aran sweaters next if I don't put a stop to it.



:uhyeah: Haha, that's no problem. =]

Just basically wanted to know if my sensei was right or if he's full of horseradish (which i know he is at times, he said there are no moves in kempo that there are in shotokan, I know for a fact thats not true, for example both have the roundhouse kick, both have an x block and both have a downwards block)

But if i ever said that too him - well you ever hear this sound before? Of a student getting pummeled?


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## CoryKS

By this rationale, I'm going to go to my local Chinese restaurant and declare the owner a fraud.  They offer a dish called Chinese spaghetti, and since spaghetti is Italian that just can't be right.

People adopt and adapt things all the time.  It's no big deal.


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## Flying Crane

CoryKS said:


> By this rationale, I'm going to go to my local Chinese restaurant and declare the owner a fraud.  They offer a dish called Chinese spaghetti, and since spaghetti is Italian that just can't be right.
> 
> People adopt and adapt things all the time.  It's no big deal.



Marco Polo actually brought spaghetti from China back to Italy where it took on an Italian flavor.  It really is a Chinese dish, originally.


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## Carol

The word _kenpo_ is a Japanese word.  
&#12369; (ke) &#12435; (n) &#12413; (po)

Orthographically speaking, it is pronounced "kempo", as the Japanese &#12435; (n) is pronounced like the English letter m before a hard consonant, and prounounced like the English n or ng otherwise.   One of the most common examples is the word for newspaper (lit. 'daily'), _shinbun._
&#12375; (shi) &#12435; (n) &#12406; (bu) &#12435; (n) 

This word is pronounced "shimbun".  The first &#12435; (n) is before a hard consonant, so it is pronounced like the English letter m.   The second &#12435; (n) is not before a hard consonant, so it is pronounced like the English letter n. 

In todays systems, some folks spell Kenpo with an N...most Kenpo systems that descended from Professor Chow originally did so.  Others spell it with an M, and Professor Chow himself chose to do so, changing his spelling in the 1970s.

_Karate _is also a Japanese word 
&#12363; (ka) &#12425; (ra) &#12390;(te)

The Chinese term for Kenpo is not "kenpo" or "kempo".  It is "chu'an fa".  

Therefore, both kenpo/kempo and karate are both Japanese words.  Nothing "fraudulent" or "not even right" about the words themselves, or using them together.


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## Carol

Flying Crane said:


> Marco Polo actually brought spaghetti from China back to Italy where it took on an Italian flavor.  It really is a Chinese dish, originally.



Yup.  Spaghetti (long thin wheat noodles) really was invented in China.  However, it was the Italians that first served it with the yummy tomato sauce.


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## CoryKS

Flying Crane said:


> Marco Polo actually brought spaghetti from China back to Italy where it took on an Italian flavor. It really is a Chinese dish, originally.


 
Lies!  Nationalistic Chinese lies!  Next you'll be telling me that Crab Rangoon is American or something.


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## Manny

Flying Crane said:


> There are lots of different systems that use the term Kenpo/kempo. Some of them are closely related and come from the same roots, others are completely unrelated but share the same name.
> 
> Kenpo Karate is a term that has been used since at least the 1950s, I wouldn't be surprised if even earlier than that. Many of the people using this term came out of the Hawaiian kenpo of William Chow. People like Ed Parker, who brought the kenpo he learned from CHow to the Mainland in the 1950s, use the term Karate as a tag-along, because nobody at that time knew what kenpo was. It was simply an unfamiliar term. So he included a term that more people of the time were familiar with, to try and avoid confusion and people wouldn't walk into his school expecting it to be a Chinese Restaurant.
> 
> The term has largely stuck, and continues to get a lot of usage.
> 
> Is it a strange compilation as a term? Strictly speaking, yes it is and it's not exactly accurate. But it was not done deliberately to defraud or confuse anyone. It was actually done to give an uneducated public a perspective that they could relate to.


 
I remeber back in the 80's when got inside of a Korean Karate Dojang, in those days and earlier the people did not know a thing about Tae Kwon Do so the dojangs were advertising as Korean Karate!!!!

Manny


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## karate-dragon

Still think that the bottom line is that whatever you call the style, it is only as good as the instructor is. But I always worry when an instructor thinks that their style, way, kick whatever is the ONLY way and that everyone else is suspect. Or an instructor who tries to control where else you go to spar or what tournaments you attend because others might be "stealing" your secrets. More likely they are afraid that they have no secrets to steal.


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## Doc

Blade96 said:


> Just a question on something my Sensei said. Maybe you can tell me if he's right or wrong. I was gonna post this question on a few different MA forums to see different responses from different people.
> 
> I was talking about the fact I trained in kempo for 2 months last year and i had a black gi. I named the kempo sensei and my shotokan sensei who knew of him and his family said "He's a fraud. Kempo is chinese. and karate is japanese. He calls his schools and advertises as "Kempo Karate" and thats just fraudulent and isnt even right."
> 
> Is this true what Sensei says? I only did kempo for 2 months and really dont know a whole lot about it. But I did say that I felt and still feel that school had some characteristics of a McDojo.


Consider this. What you call your style may have linguistic, historical, or traditional lineage implications, or it could simply be a marketing tool. For this reason, it may or may not have any implications on the validity of the style. Certainly calling the teacher a "fraud" based solely on the  name would be uninformed at the least, and may not have a direct bearing on what is being taught. An instructor also could be quite legitimate teaching what was taught to him, name and all. Or, the teacher may know him on a personal level beyond the name of the style, and base his opinion on his teaching technically. You must also consider, many Japanese stylists are strict Japanese Traditionalists and find anything not Japanese related to their own style, a "fraud."

My teacher, (Ed Parker) popularized the term "Kenpo-Karate" as he began to commercially sale a "version" of his art(s). Technically the term is a contradiction as My Sweetie Carol pointed out. "Kenpo" (or Chaunfa) stems from the Chinese, while "karate" (empty hand) is definitely a Japanese term, creating at best, an oxymoron. But, Mr. Parker found the American public had no knowledge of what "Kenpo" was, while having a workable idea of the word "Karate" after World War 2. While originally choosing to do otherwise, Mr. Parker found there were only two marketable words in the American understanding of the Martial Arts; "judo," and "karate." Much like many who taught Taiji, Kungfu, Hapkido, and Taekwondo, etc commercially, they were forced to use the word "karate" to sale their art to the American Public, while Aikido and Jiujitsu practitioners used "judo."


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## Doc

Senjojutsu said:


> Your Shotokan sensei should be aware the_ only one true axiom_ within the Asian Martial Arts world is that the *Koreans invented everything*! And from that one source culture that all styles & techniques where either taught by or had ideas stolen by the Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, Okinawans, Vietnamese, Hawaiians ooops I forgot Thailand and Cambodia.
> 
> _Note: The preceding paragraph was sarcasm._
> 
> I remember back in the 70s one popular saying was Ke*N*po was Chinese sourced and Ke*M*po was a Japanese-sourced style, or was it the other way around?
> :uhyeah:
> 
> Now I will cut your Sensei some slack - because - anyone in this niche world of ours  there are certain phrases or terms that do become personal hot buttons  sound of nails scratching on a chalkboard. For me soke is one example. Or anyone who prefixes their style name with Combat or even worse Kombat as in Kombat Karate.
> 
> Now the mixing of different cultural names within Martial Arts can be a legitimate red flag to possible fraud. I mean would not terms such as _British Croissant_ or _French Sauerkraut_  or using an obvious oxymoron  *"Irish Gourmet Food"*  make one wonder and ask questions?
> 
> Of course to poke the ferret and maybe get you thrown out of your Shotokan school - you could ask your Sensei about his opinions on Shotokans Karate first decade or two of history on the mainland (1922>) and the relationship amongst Gichin Funakoshi, Hironori &#332;tsuka (Wado-Ryu founder) and other notable peers back in his day.



The only scary thing about your post is, you had to label the first paragraph as "sarcasm."

Be afraid, be very afraid.


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## J Ellis

Remember too that just as Kenpo is a Japanese term for a martial art from a Chinese source, the word Karate also once fit into the same category. _Karate_ was originally _China-hand_, a reference to the Chinese origins of the Okinawan fighting method.

Joel


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## Doc

J Ellis said:


> Remember too that just as Kenpo is a Japanese term for a martial art from a Chinese source, the word Karate also once fit into the same category. _Karate_ was originally _China-hand_, a reference to the Chinese origins of the Okinawan fighting method.
> 
> Joel



Correct, and the Japanese simple decided to change the meaning to one that suited their nationalistic traditions. Thus you have a phrase, written the same way in two different languages, with different meanings, even though the root of the Japanese word is in Chinese. Great for history buffs, but lousy for training.


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## Blade96

CoryKS said:


> By this rationale, I'm going to go to my local Chinese restaurant and declare the owner a fraud.  They offer a dish called Chinese spaghetti, and since spaghetti is Italian that just can't be right.
> 
> People adopt and adapt things all the time.  It's no big deal.





Flying Crane said:


> Marco Polo actually brought spaghetti from  China back to Italy where it took on an Italian flavor.  It really is a  Chinese dish, originally.



LOL. well that blows apart the testimony of the top post, your honor. 

so I concluded now, that my sensei isn't ENTIRELY made of bs.  but not 100% right, either.


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## Sigung86

Doc said:


> The only scary thing about your post is, you had to label the first paragraph as "sarcasm."
> 
> Be afraid, be very afraid.




Bwah Ha Ha Ha!!!!!... Wait!  Um... This may not be all that funny! :uhyeah:


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## DocWard

Doc said:


> My teacher, (Ed Parker) popularized the term "Kenpo-Karate" as he began to commercially sale a "version" of his art(s). Technically the term is a contradiction as My Sweetie Carol pointed out. "Kenpo" (or Chaunfa) stems from the Chinese, while "karate" (empty hand) is definitely a Japanese term, creating at best, an oxymoron.


 
I am sitting here having read the above, puzzling over whether it would be oxymoronic or redundant. On the one hand (no pun intended), We have "kenpo" often translated as "fist law" or "law of the fist." On the other, we have "karate" or "empty hand." So, it seems to me that a fist is typically an empty hand that is closed, but I picture an empty hand as one being held out, supine and cupped, ready to be filled.

Sorry, my brain sometimes goes on very odd tangents at the end of a long day. I did appreciate your posts, at any rate.


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## Doc

DocWard said:


> I am sitting here having read the above, puzzling over whether it would be oxymoronic or redundant. On the one hand (no pun intended), We have "kenpo" often translated as "fist law" or "law of the fist." On the other, we have "karate" or "empty hand." So, it seems to me that a fist is typically an empty hand that is closed, but I picture an empty hand as one being held out, supine and cupped, ready to be filled.
> 
> Sorry, my brain sometimes goes on very odd tangents at the end of a long day. I did appreciate your posts, at any rate.



I see your point sir. Consider the translation "kara-te" or "empty-hand" is directly derived from the Chinese. (the Japanese had no written language and their's is heavily "borrowed" from the Chinese). One of the prominent translation of Chaunfa, Chuanshu," (Madarin or Cantonese) is "China Hand, or Hands of China." The martial export translation outside of China is "Fist Law or Law of the Fist." 

The Japanese in nationalizing the art as well as being unwilling to give credit to the Chinese, simply changed the translation without changing the writing or kanji. In a sense by simply deciding to "pronounce and interpret" a word their way, they gave it a completely different meaning and origin to suit their own purposes creating a nationalistic and cultural contradiction. Some recognizing the distinction and in blending artistic and cultural concepts of the two felt that the term "Kenpo-Karate" was appropriate. One of these was my teacher's Chinese teacher, William Kwai Sun Chow, who also had studied the Japanese Arts under Henry Okazaki in Hawaii. Thus the term was passed to Ed Parker legitimately.

However, upon coming to the mainland from Hawaii Mr. Parker discovered a rich Chinese Culture of the martial arts and almost immediately changed perspectives as he became a student of the Chinese Arts, and settling on "Chinese Kenpo" as his artistic term of choice. Later this was to become "American Kenpo" but this would have to wait as personal circumstances forced him to seize upon "Kenpo-Karate" as an art and term that best served his purpose to "sale" the art, while "American Kenpo" became an ongoing personal project unpublicized, although the brief exposure has many confusing the two. But Ed Parker's "Kenpo-Karate" by his own admission and desire is not the "American Kenpo," of Ed Parker's creation.


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## yorkshirelad

*Mind boggling!!* American Kenpo, Kenpo Karate, Kempo Karate, Chinese Kenpo. Who cares what it's called? just train!! Put all semantics aside and just train!!
We know that the Japanese are a little crazy, but aren't we all. Yes the Japanese changed the word "China" to mean the word "empty", they also tried to rip off the shaolin arts with Shorinji Kempo and got into a legal battle over it. I hear that if you go to "certain parts" (wink wink) of Tokyo, there is a vending machine where you can buy soiled panties along with a photo of the girl that soiled them. A little odd you may say, but look at us in the good old US. Most people would rather know who won American Idol than who won the Presidential election. Again, a little odd, but just like the Japanese we have understandable quirks.

End of rant!!


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## namelekane4

Flying Crane said:


> There are lots of different systems that use the term Kenpo/kempo. Some of them are closely related and come from the same roots, others are completely unrelated but share the same name.
> 
> Kenpo Karate is a term that has been used since at least the 1950s, I wouldn't be surprised if even earlier than that. Many of the people using this term came out of the Hawaiian kenpo of William Chow. People like Ed Parker, who brought the kenpo he learned from CHow to the Mainland in the 1950s, use the term Karate as a tag-along, because nobody at that time knew what kenpo was. It was simply an unfamiliar term. So he included a term that more people of the time were familiar with, to try and avoid confusion and people wouldn't walk into his school expecting it to be a Chinese Restaurant.
> 
> The term has largely stuck, and continues to get a lot of usage.
> 
> Is it a strange compilation as a term? Strictly speaking, yes it is and it's not exactly accurate. But it was not done deliberately to defraud or confuse anyone. It was actually done to give an uneducated public a perspective that they could relate to.


 
You are right nobody knew what it really was until they would see a small demo between schools.  Then people that were present would say ah, so that is Kenpo as GGM(Professa) Chow would say yes to.


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## Touch Of Death

Sigung86 said:


> Bwah Ha Ha Ha!!!!!... Wait!  Um... This may not be all that funny! :uhyeah:


If there is a Sun Source, why not Korea?:ultracool


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## namelekane4

Blade96 said:


> Just a question on something my Sensei said. Maybe you can tell me if he's right or wrong. I was gonna post this question on a few different MA forums to see different responses from different people.
> 
> I was talking about the fact I trained in kempo for 2 months last year and i had a black gi. I named the kempo sensei and my shotokan sensei who knew of him and his family said "He's a fraud. Kempo is chinese. and karate is japanese. He calls his schools and advertises as "Kempo Karate" and thats just fraudulent and isnt even right."
> 
> Is this true what Sensei says? I only did kempo for 2 months and really dont know a whole lot about it. But I did say that I felt and still feel that school had some characteristics of a McDojo.


 
First of all I would not worry about the Black Gi, I would worry more of the extent of trainning that you recieved.  If you feel that this dojo is like a McDojo than leave.  But if you feel that you are benefitting from this Dojo, then I would stick around for a while.  Maybe you got the Gi at an early stage because of your experience with Shotokan.  If you are confused I would ask questions to the Kenpo/Kempo instructor that you are studying under.  Questions should never hurt.


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## LawDog

Gi style, belt color, belt names, terms, system names and paper on the wall does not make legit a system, style, school or instructor. 
Legit is simply the end product. On a high level of expertise can an advanced student do what he is supposed to.
Many of todays martial artists are hung up on the wrong things.


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## punisher73

yorkshirelad said:


> *Mind boggling!!* American Kenpo, Kenpo Karate, Kempo Karate, Chinese Kenpo. Who cares what it's called? just train!! Put all semantics aside and just train!!
> We know that the Japanese are a little crazy, but aren't we all. *Yes the Japanese changed the word "China" to mean the word "empty"*, they also tried to rip off the shaolin arts with Shorinji Kempo and got into a legal battle over it.
> End of rant!!


 
Actually, it was a meeting of okinawan masters who decided to change the characters of how kara-te was written.  Phonetically, they are both pronounsed the same way just as reed or read.  So, the change was made to call it "empty hand" instead of "china hand".  Many of the okinawan kata names were changed as well to be "more japanese" by Funakoshi.

Also, correct is the denial by many top japanese instructors that kara-te originated in China.  Much like the Koreans denying their japanese roots.

As a side note, ask some okinawans the difference between okinawan karate and japanese karate and you will be told their is only "karate" and "japanese karate".  They view their art as the foundation and pure and don't want it compared to what the japanese sylists do.

So the point?  Everyone in the history of martial arts has changed the names of what they do and where it came from to reflect cultural or personal changes.  This type of legit or non-legit was happening back in the day between Motobu and Funakoshi of what was being taught not being "real karate" etc.  Nothing new under the sun.


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## Blindside

As a complete aside, and because it just before lunch and I am hungry....



Carol said:


> Yup. Spaghetti (long thin wheat noodles) really was invented in China. However, it was the Italians that first served it with the yummy tomato sauce.


 
The tomato is a new world crop.



Malleus said:


> Hoi! The potato is a versatile dish y'know! You can even garnish it with smaller potatoes. Maybe cheese and ketchup too. If that isn't gourmet I don't know what is.


 
The potato is also a new world crop, and since you are garnishing it with ketchup, we are back to the tomato again.

Irish, Chinese, Italian, Peruvian, meh, I call it pan-world fusion.

As for the kenpo thing, the Kanji on the Parker IKKA patch translates to "tang hand" rather than "empty hand."


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## Touch Of Death

Blindside said:


> As a complete aside, and because it just before lunch and I am hungry....
> 
> 
> 
> The tomato is a new world crop.
> 
> 
> 
> The potato is also a new world crop, and since you are garnishing it with ketchup, we are back to the tomato again.
> 
> Irish, Chinese, Italian, Peruvian, meh, I call it pan-world fusion.
> 
> As for the kenpo thing, the Kanji on the Parker IKKA patch translates to "tang hand" rather than "empty hand."


Um, the Chinese invented Katsi tup, as a fish sauce, but I don't think it had tomato in it.
Sean


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## Blindside

Touch Of Death said:


> Um, the Chinese invented Katsi tup, as a fish sauce, but I don't think it had tomato in it.
> Sean


 
I had no idea, the wikipedia entry on ketchup is pretty interesting, it has about 3 origin theories.


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## backyardkempo.com

Truth be told - originally the Okinawans would travel to China so they could learn Chuan Fa (&#25331;&#27861 and would return to Okinawa and teach it as Kempo (&#25331;&#27861 which is merely 2 different ways to pronounce the same word which translates to Fist Law or Fist Method.  The Okinawans also had some native methods that they simply called Te (&#25163, which means hand.  Alternatively, the Okinawans would also refer to Kempo as Karate (&#21776;&#25163 which means Chinese Hand - to denote the origination of the method.

In the 1920s, Choki Motubu a Kempo Man knocked out a Russian Heavyweight Boxing Champ in an exhibition match in Japan.  This peaked interest in the Okinawan Martial Art in Japan Gichin Funikoshi was sent as an Ambassador of the art.  Gichin was not chosen because he was the most skilled but rather because of his knowledge of Japanese culture and diplomatic skill.  The decision was made to call the art Karate (&#31354;&#25163 empty hand to remove all Chinese references because of the extreme nationalism prevalent in Japan leading up to WWII.


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## Entryteam

Doc said:


> I see your point sir. Consider the translation "kara-te" or "empty-hand" is directly derived from the Chinese. (the Japanese had no written language and their's is heavily "borrowed" from the Chinese). One of the prominent translation of Chaunfa, Chuanshu," (Madarin or Cantonese) is "China Hand, or Hands of China." The martial export translation outside of China is "Fist Law or Law of the Fist."



ChuanFa would be mandarin.  Kuen Fat would be cantonese.

-R


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## Doc

CoryKS said:


> By this rationale, I'm going to go to my local Chinese restaurant and declare the owner a fraud.  They offer a dish called Chinese spaghetti, and since spaghetti is Italian that just can't be right.
> 
> People adopt and adapt things all the time.  It's no big deal.


An unintentional good example perhaps? Spaghetti is sorta Italian for Chinese noodles which were first. Much like Kempo is Japanese for Chuanfa - Kenpo.


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