# Some Wednesday Night Sparring



## Azulx

Did some sparring at the end of class today. Hope you enjoy.


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## CB Jones

Enjoyed the video.

Don’t know if you are aware....but next year they are moving nationals and worlds to Texas.

Nationals will be in Houston and Worlds will be in Fort Worth.


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## Azulx

Awesome!!!!!


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## Buka

Why is the woman student not wearing feet gear?


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## Azulx

CB Jones said:


> Enjoyed the video.
> 
> Don’t know if you are aware....but next year they are moving nationals and worlds to Texas.
> 
> Nationals will be in Houston and Worlds will be in Fort Worth.





Buka said:


> Why is the woman student not wearing feet gear?



She didn’t want to


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## Buka

Shame on you, bro.


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## Danny T

Buka said:


> Why is the woman student not wearing feet gear?





Azulx said:


> She didn’t want to


What is the protective gear for?
To protect the other person. Not the one wearing it. Other than head gear which protects both, one from cuts the other to prevent injuries to the hand.


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## Azulx

Buka said:


> Why is the woman student not wearing feet gear?





Buka said:


> Shame on you, bro.



Why shame on me?


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## Headhunter

Danny T said:


> What is the protective gear for?
> To protect the other person. Not the one wearing it. Other than head gear which protects both, one from cuts the other to prevent injuries to the hand.


Exactly in my opinion it should be a mandatory thing. Either everyone wears them or no one wears them. There should be set rules about protective gear not just letting people do what they want


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## Buka

Azulx said:


> Why shame on me?



Don't mind me, just a grouchy old fool.


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## Headhunter

Azulx said:


> She didn’t want to


So If a student tells you they don't want to wear gloves they'd be allowed to spar bare knuckle then would they?


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## pdg

Headhunter said:


> Exactly in my opinion it should be a mandatory thing. Either everyone wears them or no one wears them. There should be set rules about protective gear not just letting people do what they want



Generally we run with no gear = no contact.

There's slight leeway of sorts - like if you don't have foot gear you don't kick, and if you don't have a gumshield (or headgear) your opponent isn't allowed head shots.

There's a couple of us that do light/medium with no gear - but imo that takes a bit of trust and experience if you're only doing it for a bit of a giggle, and we do set our own 'extra' rules.


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## Azulx

Headhunter said:


> So If a student tells you they don't want to wear gloves they'd be allowed to spar bare knuckle then would they?



Our rules are as follows. The only thing mandatory is a mouth piece. If no gloves punches to face are not allowed. It’s light to moderate contact. She is also training to compete in his tournament we’re you are only allowed to wear gloves.


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## Azulx

Headhunter said:


> Exactly in my opinion it should be a mandatory thing. Either everyone wears them or no one wears them. There should be set rules about protective gear not just letting people do what they want



Yes , I understand. We’re a college club. Most of the students aren’t local there’s only three of us in town right now. Things are more casual at the moment . Are you always this opinionated ?


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## Headhunter

Azulx said:


> Our rules are as follows. The only thing mandatory is a mouth piece. If no gloves punches to face are not allowed. It’s light to moderate contact. She is also training to compete in his tournament we’re you are only allowed to wear gloves.


Wow....that's naive to think sparring will always stay nice and light to moderate. Also the risk of an accidental punch to the face out of instinct...in my opinion you should change because if someone gets seriously injured in there and you didn't make them wear protective gear you'll be liable for it if they decide to sue.


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## Headhunter

Azulx said:


> Yes , I understand. We’re a college club. Most of the students aren’t local there’s only three of us in town right now. Things are more casual at the moment . Are you always this opinionated ?


Yeah I am. Problem?


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## Azulx

Headhunter said:


> Wow....that's naive to think sparring will always stay nice and light to moderate. Also the risk of an accidental punch to the face out of instinct...in my opinion you should change because if someone gets seriously injured in there and you didn't make them wear protective gear you'll be liable for it if they decide to sue.


Sue me


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## Azulx

Headhunter said:


> Yeah I am. Problem?



Man you’re really tough . I’m sorry .


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## Headhunter

Azulx said:


> Sue me


Very mature 

I'm not going to sue you but if someone gets injured and you haven't done the proper safeguarding procedures then they certainly will


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## Headhunter

Azulx said:


> Man you’re really tough . I’m sorry .


Wow you're showing some serious immaturity right now pal


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## Azulx

To more important things 

@Buka @Danny T @pdg @JowGaWolf 

Always appreciate any feedback you may have outside of gear. Thank you.


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## Azulx

@gpseymour @JR 137 @Martial D y’all too


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## Azulx

Headhunter said:


> Very mature
> 
> I'm not going to sue you but if someone gets injured and you haven't done the proper safeguarding procedures then they certainly will





Headhunter said:


> Wow you're showing some serious immaturity right now pal



You know HH, you're right. My apologies, I got a little annoyed. You're here taking the time to watch my video and taking the time to write your opinion. I appreciate that, even though I may disagree. Thank you.


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## Martial D

Hmm what did I see.

Her distance control and timing vs the yellow belt was good, but he seemed timid. It was less so vs your aggressive tactics. Keep pressuring her in sparring like that to improve her counter game.

I'm no tkd guy, so I don't know what the theory is behind keeping your hands down( especially the rear hand), but if head punching is allowed you might want to get them up. Vs a good puncher an always on line undefended head is pretty much a BOB.

Other than that good stuff. At least you are sparring.


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## Headhunter

Azulx said:


> You know HH, you're right. My apologies, I got a little annoyed. You're here taking the time to watch my video and taking the time to write your opinion. I appreciate that, even though I may disagree. Thank you.


I've got nothing against you buddy. I'm just stating my opinion based on my experiences. Maybe I'm wrong I ain't got all the answers but I'll always say what I think that's how I do things. No point hiding opinions. I'm not telling you how to run your place just stating opinions no offence intended in anything I say but that's my opinion you can take it on if you want or you can ignore it either way makes no difference to me my life will carry on just the same either way.  Peace


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## CB Jones

I don’t see the problem with no foot pads...if you compete in the Ozawa Cup you don’t even  wear footpads.


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## Azulx

Headhunter said:


> I've got nothing against you buddy. I'm just stating my opinion based on my experiences. Maybe I'm wrong I ain't got all the answers but I'll always say what I think that's how I do things. No point hiding opinions. I'm not telling you how to run your place just stating opinions no offence intended in anything I say but that's my opinion you can take it on if you want or you can ignore it either way makes no difference to me my life will carry on just the same either way.  Peace



No problem brother, I kind of had a moment where I was like man this guy remind me of myself lol. He must be a cool. Anyway outside of the lack of sparring gear I would love any feedback you may have positive or negative on the actual sparring.


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## Azulx

CB Jones said:


> I don’t see the problem with no foot pads...if you compete in the Ozawa Cup you don’t even  wear footpads.



JKA tournaments are gloves only as well. It's something that takes getting used too.


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## wab25

I was not called out specifically for feed back... but if I may...

All three of you guys really telegraph what your next attack is going to be. If you have your hands in guard, you will not be kicking... only punching. Then when you want to kick, the hands either drop or go to a balance position... kind of like saying "here comes a kick, get ready." Further, as the hands drop, the shoulders start to twist before your leg moves, giving away which leg and what direction the kick is coming. When you have to advance to attack, if the hands stay in guard, its going to be a punch. If the hands either go up or straight drop, its a kick coming with the shoulders telling which side. When combos were thrown, you know the punching part of the combo is done when the hands drop. This was common to all 3 people.

I would work on keeping your hands in guard always. Don't announce your technique before you advance. Looking at the patterns I saw, ending your combo with punches instead of kicks every once in a while, will catch the other guy completely by surprise.


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## Azulx

wab25 said:


> I was not called out specifically for feed back... but if I may...
> 
> All three of you guys really telegraph what your next attack is going to be. If you have your hands in guard, you will not be kicking... only punching. Then when you want to kick, the hands either drop or go to a balance position... kind of like saying "here comes a kick, get ready." Further, as the hands drop, the shoulders start to twist before your leg moves, giving away which leg and what direction the kick is coming. When you have to advance to attack, if the hands stay in guard, its going to be a punch. If the hands either go up or straight drop, its a kick coming with the shoulders telling which side. When combos were thrown, you know the punching part of the combo is done when the hands drop. This was common to all 3 people.
> 
> I would work on keeping your hands in guard always. Don't announce your technique before you advance. Looking at the patterns I saw, ending your combo with punches instead of kicks every once in a while, will catch the other guy completely by surprise.


\

Sweet thanks for your feedback! Those are just members who regularly comment on my posts. I love hearing from everyone!


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## pdg

Martial D said:


> I'm no tkd guy, so I don't know what the theory is behind keeping your hands down( especially the rear hand), but if head punching is allowed you might want to get them up. Vs a good puncher an always on line undefended head is pretty much a BOB.



My guard depends who I'm against...

I default to rear hand up, front hand down because I'm more "TKD" - while head punches are allowed (for us) they're less common, but the kicks are fast. Maintaining a high guard means you get kicked, a lot. That's the guard I use against another TKDer.

For kickboxing, it's normally a high guard - punches are more common and generally faster (and kicks tend to be a bit slower) so a low guard doesn't work as well against a kickboxer - you can still make it work, but you have to be quick and certainly not in line all the time.


Then there are the few of us who train both, who will take advantage of any gap left by a high or low guard - so sometimes I end up with a neither/nor middling guard...


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## Gerry Seymour

Danny T said:


> What is the protective gear for?
> To protect the other person. Not the one wearing it. Other than head gear which protects both, one from cuts the other to prevent injuries to the hand.


With relatively light sparring, I don't see much benefit to me in someone else wearing foot gear (except if it makes them slip). They'll want it, for sure, when I block a kick, but unless they're kicking moderately hard, I'm not likely to care. I've always considered foot/shin gear mostly for the wearer, and hand gear mostly for their opponent.


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## Gerry Seymour

Azulx said:


> @gpseymour @JR 137 @Martial D y’all too


I'm on it. I only watched the first half-ish of the video - my connection is really slow tonight - but I'd expect most of this to continue, so I'll share what I saw.

Good stuff. I like the movement from you and the female student (can't tell what color her belt is). You both use space and change angles. The other guy (yellow belt?) wasn't moving so well, but I assume that's a fairly low rank, so he has time. He's not very aggressive, and paired with his limited footwork, it leaves him doing a lot of backing up. I'd work on getting him to change angles and move forward more. It's easier to build around forward movement bias than to correct backing away bias.

I like her tendency to pressure. She sometimes backs off when she really has the pressure on, but that's probably just her not wanting to overwhelm her partner. She reaches a bit too much with some of her kicks against him, but they tend to score, so (for point competition) that might be a reasonable move.

Your distancing on her seemed a bit off at the beginning - you threw some punches that couldn't reach her. If that was on purpose to test her reaction, no worries. If not, you might want to work on finding distance more quickly - it shouldn't take your first exchange to get that. She follows suit later in the session, but by then I think both of you were more focused on setting up kicks and keeping away from each others' hands. I feel like you might both be missing a chance to close distance and get hands on targets. (I'm less of a kicker than you are, so it might not matter as much for you.)

At one point, you fire off a jab while you're moving away from a strike. This leaves your back very straight and vertical, leaving you exposed if she threw some sort of straight kick, putting you back on your heels. And your guard (other hand) isn't covering in case the strike is followed up. This was shortly before you called a pause, so I'm not sure if there was some other reason for what happened.


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## Danny T

gpseymour said:


> With relatively light sparring, I don't see much benefit to me in someone else wearing foot gear (except if it makes them slip). They'll want it, for sure, when I block a kick, but unless they're kicking moderately hard, I'm not likely to care. I've always considered foot/shin gear mostly for the wearer, and hand gear mostly for their opponent.


Take note of most all trainers who are working fighters. The trainer wears the protective gear. We wear shin guards to protect the fighter not our shins. If the fighter gets cut or damaged training time is reduced or stopped. Foot pads to to prevent the other person from getting cut or poked in the eyes. Toes and nail cause damage to the fighters face and eyes. It's about protecting the fighter or the training partner.


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## Danny T

Let me state that I'm not a TKD fighter or trainer so take my remarks with a grain of salt. There a few things already presented. Other than those I find there is a lot of blocking or parrying of attacks that would not make contact or if making contact it would not have cause any damage. I am of the opinion that creates a lot chasing of the attacks that would be better served counter attacking. Numerous attacks are being countered by creating distance and that again prevents an immediate counter attack.


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## JowGaWolf

Azulx said:


> Did some sparring at the end of class today. Hope you enjoy.


First I would like to say it's good to see you grow as a practitioner.  There will always be room for improvement, but man you have come a long way from being student and becoming an instructor.  You have some good students as well. 

There were things that I saw that need improvement, but it wasn't anything that I think needs to be pointed out at this time. Based on what I see so far from you and your (female) student, it looks as if you two are ready for applications training.  By applications training I mean that you really try to understand the techniques within your system and how to effectively apply your techniques.  The only requirement is to have an open mind because you'll need it.

There are things that are taught to us, but that can only take us so far.  Then there are things we must learn to understand and that's when our growth as a martial artist will really increase.

With that said lets take a look at your low block that you often try to use against the kicks you are dealing with.  I'm familiar with this technique and it's use is the same across different fighting systems.  The technique that I'm referring to is the one at 0:10 - 0:11 Shown below




This technique works better against front kicks targeting your mid section (just one of the applications). Think of it as more of a Parry or redirect that is used to counter front kicks.   To drill it, have someone do a front kick to your stomach. Similar to this:




Or to your front kick that you use at 2:03  This is the kick will help you gain more understanding for the technique..  Make sure the kick can actually reach your torso. This is important because it won't work any other way.  Now onto training and how it works.

Take the following positions.  Remember your stance will be a side stance with your left leg forward (in your from, you start from a side stance before doing this technique.  In fighting you start from a side stance as well)  the side stance invites the front kick. 
You can see in the link above how the side stance presents a good target.  A neutral stance may work,  but for me personally I'm not that good for it because it creates a tight squeeze and I'm not willing to risk that.







So now you are standing in your side stance. Have your sparring partner rest their foot against your stomach after performing the front kick. (Your sparring partner will need to perform the front kick using the rear foot.) While your sparring partner is holding the kick step to the left as you did in the form.  At this point you should be able to see that you have moved offed off center from the kick and that the kick isn't actually touching you.   This is the footwork of your technique.

Now do the same thing and perform the low block / parry.   You want your block/ parry to land on the inside of the kicking leg.  There are nerves on the inside of the leg that you will most likely hit and cause pain to your sparring partner.  The technique makes it more likely that you'll hit those nerves so don't try to aim for the nerves.  

The key to this technique is that the footwork and the parry must be done at the same time.  In your form you are doing a 1 and then 2.  In application you have to do them at the same time because  you only have a small window of time to land the technique.  A 1 and then 2 step flow will use time that you don't have.  Many of us talk about the importance of total body movement being in sync with the strike.  This time it's the block / parry.  After the parry, finish with the reverse punch from your form.  The movement in the front kick caused by the parry will give you enough time to land your punch while avoiding your sparring partner's attempt to counter.  

Hopefully this makes sense.  I don't have a time to make a video yet.

The problem that you are having is that you are using the technique against the wrong kick.  The way you are using it now puts you in danger for having a kick to loop over your block and kick you in the head, which almost happened in the video.

This is a universal use of this technique which is why you see it in different fighting systems.  The front kick is one of the best kicks you can have but unfortunately people underestimates it and as a result, few people use it.  Because few people use the front kick in sparring, the application for this technique becomes lost. 

Hopefully this will help you in your growth.  Keep up the good work.


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## JowGaWolf

Azulx said:


> Did some sparring at the end of class today. Hope you enjoy.


This is a variation to the technique in your system.  Hopefully one of these will help you visual better what I was explaining.





similar concept, but this is a scooping technique,  the one in your system isn't a scooping one.  It's a striking one. Meant to punish the leg while parrying.





Another scooping.  The difference is that one parry is closed hand which is safer for your fingers. If you are too early with an open hand parry to a front kick, then you risk having your fingers broken.   Also you'll see how he talks about how small that window is to follow up after the parry.  I don't like his version.  I like the one in your form because, If you strike that nerve that runs in the leg, then your opponent will be less likely to try that type of attack again.  You will experience the pain when you drill it in class.  It doesn't take long after the first nerve strike to see students actually decide not to drill that technique anymore.


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## Gerry Seymour

Danny T said:


> Take note of most all trainers who are working fighters. The trainer wears the protective gear. We wear shin guards to protect the fighter not our shins. If the fighter gets cut or damaged training time is reduced or stopped. Foot pads to to prevent the other person from getting cut or poked in the eyes. Toes and nail cause damage to the fighters face and eyes. It's about protecting the fighter or the training partner.


Okay, I can see that. A couple of differences for my situation. Most people I train with don't kick to the head much - I probably do that more than any of my students or training partners, and anyone doing TKD likely kicks to the head more than I. That removes all the really significant worries about toes and nails to the face.  And since none of us are training with folks preparing for a competitive event, that removes the one-sided concern.

So, I'll amend that. For sparring purposes (excepting fighter prep for a competition), there's not much advantage to the training partner unless there's significant kicking to the head. For me, I see the over-foot protection as protection _for_ the toes, rather than _from_ them. I see shin pads as I did in soccer: protection for the shins. Mind you, I have less sparring experience than many here. We didn't do much of it in my primary training, and it's something I've put much more emphasis on than any of my instructors did. So, maybe I just haven't been exposed to the injuries that naturally occur.


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## Gerry Seymour

Danny T said:


> Let me state that I'm not a TKD fighter or trainer so take my remarks with a grain of salt. There a few things already presented. Other than those I find there is a lot of blocking or parrying of attacks that would not make contact or if making contact it would not have cause any damage. I am of the opinion that creates a lot chasing of the attacks that would be better served counter attacking. Numerous attacks are being countered by creating distance and that again prevents an immediate counter attack.


I didn't think to mention the reaction to those attacks - I tend to focus more on the attack. But that's a great point. Reading attacks and learning which ones have no hope of connecting is a great way to get an advantage. Conversely, if you find your opponent reacting to those attacks, they can make useful feints.


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## hoshin1600

ill be the odd duck on this....
unless im going hard contact i dont like sparring gear.  
i dont like them sam i am.
i dont like them on my feet 
i dont like them on my seat.  
i just dont like them sam i am.

i am probably wrong but almost all of my training was done without sparring gear. no one ever got hurt. sure people would take an elbow to the top of the foot...suck it up buttercup.
through all these years, the 2 major injuries i sustained were both from grappling not from striking.

on the flip side for liability reasons sure make your students wear all the gear.  but for myself im not interested in wearing anything but some hand protection.  i think people go over board on the "boy in the bubble" martial arts.

but dont mind me...its just my CTE acting up.


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## JowGaWolf

Azulx said:


> Did some sparring at the end of class today. Hope you enjoy.


One more thing about the low block /parry against a front kick.  It has to have enough force to disrupt your opponent's balance.  You can use a hard enough strikes (Half-Power - Full Power strikes) to do that, or you can use a softer method using the block/parry to push the leg outward a little.  If you move your body and your low block / parry together then your body weight help with your efforts so that you don't have to use so much of your arm. 

New stuff below

In reference to the low block.  This is where you get into trouble.  And here is how I would fight / spar with you in real time.

1. After a few kicks I will start to notice that you block round house kicks like this.
2. I would throw a few round house kicks so that you can successfully block them and so you can feel good about your ability to block.
3. Once I think you have a good enough read on my kick, I would change the height of my kick and send a kick to your head.
4.  You get kicked in the head.  Below you are looking at my opportunity to kick you in the head.

I know this opportunity exists because of #3.  #3 means that you will anticipate my kick and not actually see my kick.  Anticipating my kick means that you will actually execute your block *early* vs *on time*.  





"On time" means you are watching.  Early means you are anticipating so you do something with the assumption that an attack will head there.  A real world example.  "On time" would be like catching a glass that suddenly falls off the counter.  You don't know the glass was going to fall off the counter, but you either saw it in the corner of your eye, or you felt it about to move in a away that informed that it was going to fall.    "Early" would be like watching a cat slowly push a glass off the edge of the counter so you place your hand in position before the glass actually falls.  The only thing you know in this situation, is if the cat continues to push then the glass will fall.  In terms of sparring you are fighting the "cat".  

You know that if the kick continues on the path, that your block will work.  However if the kick changes path you will be helpless to defend against it in time.
In the picture below your sparring partner is the cat.  You are fully committed to that kick being where you think it will be, so much that it appears that you look down to wait for it.




The picture below show the same thing but this time you are the cat and your sparring partner is just waiting for the kick to land where she thinks it will be which is why her hands don't move.




This picture makes i clear just how dangerous it is to "wait" for a kick to be where you think it will land.  Notice that your sparring partner's arms have changed from a fighting guard to a blocking position as if the kick is going go under her block and not over it. In the video she gets kick in the chest.  If you had more flexibility then you would have easily kick her in the side of the head.  




It appears that you have "stiff hips" as if something isn't moving correctly in your kicking process or that it's flexibility.  This is what I'm seeing even when you kick to the body. I'm not sure if you are turning your the heel of your standing leg towards your opponent enough before kicking. Notice in the picture below how the standing legs heel points at an angle towards the opponent.   I don't think your foot does this and as a result it's causing you to kick at an angle that isn't efficient for your hip or flexibility.  Turning that foot a little more may allow you to open your hips up a little more and get better kicks.


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## JowGaWolf

Headhunter said:


> So If a student tells you they don't want to wear gloves they'd be allowed to spar bare knuckle then would they?


When I taught.. Yes, but the student would have had to demonstrate that they had enough control to spar bare knuckle.  They would have to also have shown an ability to spar to learn vs sparring to win.



Headhunter said:


> that's naive to think sparring will always stay nice and light to moderate. Also the risk of an accidental punch to the face out of instinct...in my opinion you should change because if someone gets seriously injured in there and you didn't make them wear protective gear you'll be liable for it if they decide to sue.


All of this can happen even with protective gear on.  If students or practitioners can't control their sparring intensity, pull a punch, not act on instinct (flinch reactions), and have no ability to pull a punch when necessary then that student should work more on their control.  If the student can't control what they do then that's when the accidental slips become dangerous.  If they can't control what they do then they shouldn't do it.
Bare knuckl sparring






For example, you don't want this crap.  That body shot at the end shouldn't have been that hard.  Just because you see an opening doesn't mean you blast a punch in there.  The guy in the tank top doesn't have enough control.





Here another example of 2 different skill levels.


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## JowGaWolf

CB Jones said:


> I don’t see the problem with no foot pads...if you compete in the Ozawa Cup you don’t even  wear footpads.


I laugh at footpads because all of the sparring videos that you guys have seen of me have been with shoes on lol

So to me the entire conversation about footpads and protective gear is strange to me. lol.

Also when you watch my videos, I get punched in the face a lot where there is no padding


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## pdg

JowGaWolf said:


> It appears that you have "stiff hips" as if something isn't moving correctly in your kicking process or that it's flexibility. This is what I'm seeing even when you kick to the body. I'm not sure if you are turning your the heel of your standing leg towards your opponent enough before kicking. Notice in the picture below how the standing legs heel points at an angle towards the opponent. I don't think your foot does this and as a result it's causing you to kick at an angle that isn't efficient for your hip or flexibility. Turning that foot a little more may allow you to open your hips up a little more and get better kicks.



I don't think it's flexibility, I'm pretty sure it's technique - not pivoting the support foot enough nor turning the hips enough.

The same thing is evident in one of the forms/patterns videos, where the turning kick is almost closer to a snap kick.

That support foot really needs to be at least 90 degrees to the target.

I think it's possible this is from starting young and bendy - you can get the attacking foot into the right position with less reliance on the support positioning. If that's not noticed it can slip into programming and become this sort of issue later... Where I started older and stiffer, I really had to work on getting the whole kinetic chain lined up properly to connect anywhere near right.


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## spidersam

Great video, thanks for sharing. I'm no expert at my level, but just from watching I would say it appears there's a decent amount of wasteful swinging movement to prepare for kicks/punches. I think cleaning that up could save a lot of energy. Also less wind-ups before attacks and more quick snaps would help improve. Open to discussion!


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## JowGaWolf

Low blocking technique against around house.  The technique being used is different that the one I discussed above but it works off the same concept of disrupting the kick.  Screenshots only.    I was sparring against a TKD guy here (I think can't remember anyone).  He liked to do round house kicks and I started to pick up the pattern

*Phase one. Invite the kick*:  High guard invites low round house.  Notice the stance position of my opponent.  He's ready to kick and I'm looking for the kick that I want.




*Phase two. Timing: *(sorry about the blur, I don't have a highspeed camera) There are 2 things that I know about all round house kicks to the body.  The power is on the end of the kick.  Going forward makes the kick impact weaker, Going backwards makes the kick impact stronger.   I understand that I need to move when he's in the process of launching the kick.  What you are seeing below is me lifting my lead leg so I can advance forward and "step into my technique" which will redirect that kick.   If I stay where I am then it will be force vs force and I will loose.  Forward is the only option




*Phase three. Strike the leg*: The technique that I'm using is actually a punching technique from my system.  At this point I'm intentionally attacking his leg, above the knee.  This has multiple functions.
1. Makes that leg tender
2. Stops the rotation of that kick in the event he decides to rise it higher.  You may be able to tell that I'm not waiting for the kick to land on my technique.  I'm applying the technique to his kick and by doing so I'm able to land my technique before he lands his, which in turn disrupts his kick.  You can verify this by looking at the angle of my opponents standing leg.  Look at the direction of his heel.




*Phase three causes redirect*.  Here is a clearer picture fo the redirection caused by the technique.  You can also see me bail out of the technique, which I should have.  You can see me turn my hand into a hooking hand to catch kicking leg.  On reflection I think this happened because I didn't use enough force on the technique to redirect,  or because the time was running out on the sparring clock, so instead of blasting through with the technique I decided to be prepared to stop.  It looks like he's kicking my arm but he's not.  Impact started long before his leg got to this height, much of the power from this kick would have been zapped at this point.  At this point I'm lifting his leg, which is what I should be doing.    I should be advancing at this point to land the reverse punch or my long arm technique, which is like a long upper cut.




*Phase 4. Unplanned hook of kick*.  Because I bailed out of my technique, I'm no longer able to complete the technique that I originally was going for.  As you can see, his leg is hooked,  and I don't want to drop my hand.  I want him to struggle to lift his leg over my hook.




*Phase 5 Improvise.  What's available*? Sometimes this happens.  It's normal.  Sometimes your original plan changes so you have to do the next best thing. Bailing out of my original technique only left me the option to reverse punch.  Had I intentionally planned to hook his like, I would hooked it different way which would have allowed me to get a better and more secure lift of his leg, and an opportunity to sweep.  But I didn't so I have to take the opportunity that I see at the time. You can see me well into the process of what could have been a decent reverse punch.  At this point the round ends so we both just disengage.




Very important.  Do not try to make your technique look like mine.  it should take the shape of what it looks like in the form.   When I get time,  I'll do a short video showing the application of that technique as I understand it.


----------



## JR 137

@Azulx 
Great videos.  You’ve improved quite a bit, and your students are far better for it.  I commend your coachability; people have pointed out things in the past, and you’ve really taken them to heart and did it.  Just look at the earlier videos and see the comments, and look at this one and re-read the old comments.  You addressed them.

A lot of great comments here.  Some are beyond my level, so I won’t get into it.

The thing I saw most was you and your students dropping your hands during attacking and defending.

The yellow belt needs to get quicker with his spinning kicks, as he’s exposing his back for too long before and after the leg kicks.  But that’s to be expected at his rank.

He drops his head and turns away slightly at times when he’s getting pressured, but far less than a lot of people I’ve seen at that rank (6-10 months of experience or so?).

They look great, as do you.  Nothing jumps out at me like it did before.  Keep refining!


----------



## JR 137

As to sparring gear...

IMO it’s a necessary evil.  If anyone’s going to wear anything, wear head gear.  My current organization didn’t wear it until our founder (Tadashi Nakamura) was at another organization’s tournament.  A competitor was swept and landed on the back of his head on the hardwood floor.  His skull was fractured.  The guy needed several surgeries and had significant brain trauma.  It was a routine sweep; nothing fancy, the guy didn’t pick him up and drop him, he didn’t go airborne, etc.  From that moment on, headgear that covers the back of the head was made mandatory in all dojos in our organization.

A local dojo owner was sued for practically the same thing.  Students were sparring in class and one was swept, landing on the back of his head onto the hardwood floor.  Significant trauma.  Putting on headgear would’ve helped.  The teacher making them wear it would’ve been his due diligence and saved him quite a bit in paying out damages.  Had the student still had the injuries while wearing sufficient headgear, the liability would’ve been far more on the helmet manufacturer than the teacher.  That lawsuit closed his dojo.  

But forget liability.  Do you want your students sustaining easily avoidable head trauma?  The head gear may not eliminate it completely, but at least it helps and shows you’re doing your part to protect them.

And I’m out of the protective gear conversation.


----------



## dvcochran

Azulx said:


> Did some sparring at the end of class today. Hope you enjoy.


IMHO, your upper body technique looks ok but your kicks are weak. You are swinging them up, using little or no knee, quad, hip. The body posture for hand strikes is too tilted back, I assume to prep for a kick. It makes the hands slow. The sparring is totally linear in motion. That is the sparring dance. "I'll advance then you advance". Side to side and circular is most effective.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Regarding head gear first: I would advocate for headgear, I never really used it, and have suffered concussions in the double digits, and am only 24...not something I'm exactly happy about. I don't like them either, but I've learned the hard way with that. Regarding foot gear, I never used it, neither did my partners, and it didn't seem as big an issue. Safety is always the better option, but at the same time if she is entering a tournament without them, it's worth practicing sometimes (not all the time) without it.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Heads up for this comment...I did not read all the other comments so I may be repeating things.  Took notes on my phone on all three of you while I was watching, so just going to post those...it's a bit of word vomit, so my apologies if they are jumbled. If you need clarification on any of it, let me know. And if you want timestamps for any of my comments, just let me know and I'll specify.

Also, should I be offended I wasn't tagged to review ? (JK obviously)

YELLOW: Footwork footwork footwork. Particularly retreating. Learn angles. Some slow sparring may help him to learn technique/strategy/balancing/timing. Not going to say much more, as there are things he can work on, but he should focus on the fundamentals (AKA footwork/timing) first.
BLUE: She should learn what distance/range she wants to be at, and maintain that distance. But don't just stay static in that position, move around a bit inside the range. Against the yellowbelt, she rushed a bit, when she could have done better fighting a bit farther outside. In another of the matches against him, she stayed right inside 'the pocket' where if he was better it would have been dangerous (you should never assume your opponent is still learning...unless you're goal is teaching). Against you, you were in control of the distance, and she seemed to engage at whatever range you set. There were times that she tried to break your range, but it wasn't very effective...she mainly tried to rush in, and it was obvious from the video what she was trying to do.
YOU: Wow. You have improved immensely. Like a serious amount. Your hands and footwork are so much better. You've got a pretty good head fade, that I would use more often (take that with a grain of salt...read the last post about concussions lol). I would also suggest that you focus on comboing different kicks...you're better at comboing punches and kicks, or the same kick, but comboing different kicks could help you a bit more (unless that was intentional because you were focusing on something and/or trying to teach). Also, noticed while I went back to write for blue, when she tries to rush in, using a front kick or a 'forward' side kick could help you stop that rush, and help her learn to be more tactful (is that the right word?) when changing ranges.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Also want to commend you on one other thing. @JR 137 already stated this, but comments people have made in the past, you've picked up on, worked on, and improved from. I can see the different changes you've made as a result of that, and it's paying off. Sorry I didn't have more advice specifically for you this time around...hopefully some of the other did).

I would also recommend that you take a look at this video you posted a while ago, so that you can see the changes


----------



## JowGaWolf

JR 137 said:


> A competitor was swept and landed on the back of his head on the hardwood floor.


Valid point.  sometimes its the head hitting ground / floor that is a risk.


----------



## hoshin1600

JR 137 said:


> As to sparring gear...
> 
> IMO it’s a necessary evil.  If anyone’s going to wear anything, wear head gear.  My current organization didn’t wear it until our founder (Tadashi Nakamura) was at another organization’s tournament.  A competitor was swept and landed on the back of his head on the hardwood floor.  His skull was fractured.  The guy needed several surgeries and had significant brain trauma.  It was a routine sweep; nothing fancy, the guy didn’t pick him up and drop him, he didn’t go airborne, etc.  From that moment on, headgear that covers the back of the head was made mandatory in all dojos in our organization.
> 
> A local dojo owner was sued for practically the same thing.  Students were sparring in class and one was swept, landing on the back of his head onto the hardwood floor.  Significant trauma.  Putting on headgear would’ve helped.  The teacher making them wear it would’ve been his due diligence and saved him quite a bit in paying out damages.  Had the student still had the injuries while wearing sufficient headgear, the liability would’ve been far more on the helmet manufacturer than the teacher.  That lawsuit closed his dojo.
> 
> But forget liability.  Do you want your students sustaining easily avoidable head trauma?  The head gear may not eliminate it completely, but at least it helps and shows you’re doing your part to protect them.
> 
> And I’m out of the protective gear conversation.


Maybe I was wrong in my comment.  Your post reminded me of the time I went down and cracked my head on the dojo floor. At that time mats were unheard of.  My instructor did a sweep on me from a blind spot and I had no clue it was coming. I went down fast and it sucked big time.
As much as I hate it,, $÷! ¥ happens and maybe protective gear is important.


----------



## JowGaWolf

hoshin1600 said:


> Maybe I was wrong in my comment.  Your post reminded me of the time I went down and cracked my head on the dojo floor. At that time mats were unheard of.  My instructor did a sweep on me from a blind spot and I had no clue it was coming. I went down fast and it sucked big time.
> As much as I hate it,, $÷! ¥ happens and maybe protective gear is important.


I swept someone during a friendly sparring match and when I viewed the video in slow motion, I noticed that he hit the back of his head on the floor when he landed.  I was thankful that the floor had great padding and that it wasn't a hard floor. 

I actually ban certain sweeps in sparring if the floor is hard, because I'm so afraid that someone will get a surprise sweep and will have a serious head injury when they hit the floor.


----------



## Azulx

Martial D said:


> Hmm what did I see.
> 
> Her distance control and timing vs the yellow belt was good, but he seemed timid. It was less so vs your aggressive tactics. Keep pressuring her in sparring like that to improve her counter game.
> 
> I'm no tkd guy, so I don't know what the theory is behind keeping your hands down( especially the rear hand), but if head punching is allowed you might want to get them up. Vs a good puncher an always on line undefended head is pretty much a BOB.
> 
> Other than that good stuff. At least you are sparring.



Yeah, I've had low guard since I've been about a blue belt. It's not the best habit. I'm trying to bait my opponents to strike high, since in TKD there will be a lot of body kicks, at least in my TKD.


----------



## Headhunter

JR 137 said:


> As to sparring gear...
> 
> IMO it’s a necessary evil.  If anyone’s going to wear anything, wear head gear.  My current organization didn’t wear it until our founder (Tadashi Nakamura) was at another organization’s tournament.  A competitor was swept and landed on the back of his head on the hardwood floor.  His skull was fractured.  The guy needed several surgeries and had significant brain trauma.  It was a routine sweep; nothing fancy, the guy didn’t pick him up and drop him, he didn’t go airborne, etc.  From that moment on, headgear that covers the back of the head was made mandatory in all dojos in our organization.
> 
> A local dojo owner was sued for practically the same thing.  Students were sparring in class and one was swept, landing on the back of his head onto the hardwood floor.  Significant trauma.  Putting on headgear would’ve helped.  The teacher making them wear it would’ve been his due diligence and saved him quite a bit in paying out damages.  Had the student still had the injuries while wearing sufficient headgear, the liability would’ve been far more on the helmet manufacturer than the teacher.  That lawsuit closed his dojo.
> 
> But forget liability.  Do you want your students sustaining easily avoidable head trauma?  The head gear may not eliminate it completely, but at least it helps and shows you’re doing your part to protect them.
> 
> And I’m out of the protective gear conversation.



Pretty much exactly what I was saying, there's to much of this macho bs surrounding protective gear. People saying oh you wear head gear/ foot pads etc your a wimp. Well personally I'd rather be a wimp and healthy than be a tough guy and have serious injuries or seriously injure my friends


----------



## Azulx

dvcochran said:


> IMHO, your upper body technique looks ok but your kicks are weak. You are swinging them up, using little or no knee, quad, hip. The body posture for hand strikes is too tilted back, I assume to prep for a kick. It makes the hands slow. The sparring is totally linear in motion. That is the sparring dance. "I'll advance then you advance". Side to side and circular is most effective.



Everything still needs a lot of work, but if you saw were I was 6 months ago you'd understand that there has been significant improvement.


----------



## Azulx

Headhunter said:


> Pretty much exactly what I was saying, there's to much of this macho bs surrounding protective gear. People saying oh you wear head gear/ foot pads etc your a wimp. Well personally I'd rather be a wimp and healthy than be a tough guy and have serious injuries or seriously injure my friends



I would agree that not using sparring gear under the sole purpose of being macho, is ridiculous. There should be a purpose for lack or more sparring gear. Less gear requires training partners to be intentional about each other's safety.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

I got confused when the video started because I knew neither of the people sparring was you. I had to check to make sure I wasn’t thinking of someone else. 

You’ve come a long way from the first videos you posted. You are still throwing your punches from too far away but not as badly as you used to.

Wab25 has a nice breakdown of some other issues I noticed.

As far as safety gear, meh. I’ve sparred with heavy protective gear, no protective gear, and everything in between. You just need to know what you can do in each situation. Last week I was sparring with a pro MMA fighter using no gear. (It helped that both of us had the experience to control ourselves and we trusted each other.)


----------



## JR 137

Tony Dismukes said:


> I got confused when the video started because I knew neither of the people sparring was you. I had to check to make sure I wasn’t thinking of someone else.
> 
> You’ve come a long way from the first videos you posted. You are still throwing your punches from too far away but not as badly as you used to.
> 
> Wab25 has a nice breakdown of some other issues I noticed.
> 
> As far as safety gear, meh. I’ve sparred with heavy protective gear, no protective gear, and everything in between. You just need to know what you can do in each situation. Last week I was sparring with a pro MMA fighter using no gear. (It helped that both of us had the experience to control ourselves and we trusted each other.)


You and a pro fighter are a bit of an exception though, Tony.  And I’m assuming you were on a mat.

If I were running a dojo, I’d mandate headgear when there’s any contact free-sparring on a hard floor.  Heads and hard floors don’t mix very well.  Hands, feet, chest, etc. is another debate as far as I’m concerned.  If you can’t feel a strike enough to know you really want to avoid it, you’re wearing too much gear.  I liked bare knuckle back in my 20s and wouldn’t mind it every now and then in my early 40s.

I’ve seen a few classmates hit their head on the floor, while it wasn’t too bad, it could’ve been far worse.  Concussions aren’t exactly bruises, busted ribs, etc.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

JR 137 said:


> You and a pro fighter are a bit of an exception though, Tony.  And I’m assuming you were on a mat.
> 
> If I were running a dojo, I’d mandate headgear when there’s any contact free-sparring on a hard floor.  Heads and hard floors don’t mix very well.  Hands, feet, chest, etc. is another debate as far as I’m concerned.  If you can’t feel a strike enough to know you really want to avoid it, you’re wearing too much gear.  I liked bare knuckle back in my 20s and wouldn’t mind it every now and then in my early 40s.
> 
> I’ve seen a few classmates hit their head on the floor, while it wasn’t too bad, it could’ve been far worse.  Concussions aren’t exactly bruises, busted ribs, etc.


We were in an MMA cage, but it had a bit of padding. Hard wood floors are trickier. You have to know how to fall and still be extra careful.


----------



## pdg

While head meeting floor due to a fall during sparring is _a_ valid reason for headgear, if it's the _only_ reason it shouldn't be restricted to sparring.

Deliberate takedowns aren't really done in our free sparring, so that part of the risk is somewhat mitigated for a start, for me, but...

I've dumped myself on the floor during padwork drills more than I've been dumped during sparring.

Maybe it's just me and I should just wear my headgear all the time, even while shopping


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> While head meeting floor due to a fall during sparring is _a_ valid reason for headgear, if it's the _only_ reason it shouldn't be restricted to sparring.
> 
> Deliberate takedowns aren't really done in our free sparring, so that part of the risk is somewhat mitigated for a start, for me, but...
> 
> I've dumped myself on the floor during padwork drills more than I've been dumped during sparring.
> 
> Maybe it's just me and I should just wear my headgear all the time, even while shopping


Wear a bubble-wrap suit.


----------



## pdg

JR 137 said:


> Wear a bubble-wrap suit.



I'd only end up sitting around for hours popping the bubbles...


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> I'd only end up sitting around for hours popping the bubbles...


They’d be a ton of people lined up to take shots at you.


----------



## pdg

JR 137 said:


> They’d be a ton of people lined up to take shots at you.



Also known as:




A normal sparring night


----------



## Deafdude#5

Watched your video and found it interesting. I also found your Youtube channel with the other videos. Very interesting mix of styles. I can see you have progressed over time.

The only thing I can offer is to caution the yellow belt on paying more attention to footwork.

Overall, pretty positive sparring session as long as lessons are learned.


----------



## Azulx

Deafdude#5 said:


> Watched your video and found it interesting. I also found your Youtube channel with the other videos. Very interesting mix of styles. I can see you have progressed over time.
> 
> The only thing I can offer is to caution the yellow belt on paying more attention to footwork.
> 
> Overall, pretty positive sparring session as long as lessons are learned.



Thank you for taking the time to watch my videos, and leaving a comment.


----------



## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> What is the protective gear for?
> To protect the other person. Not the one wearing it. Other than head gear which protects both, one from cuts the other to prevent injuries to the hand.



shinguards protect both.


----------



## Danny T

FriedRice said:


> shinguards protect both.


In the beginning yes.
By the time one gets to intermediate level one should be tempered enough that the protective equipment is for the other person. In a fight it is unlikely one will have the opportunity to get the equipment to protect ones self.  
Beyond beginner level or having an injury shinguards are for protecting your training partner from your kicks not your shins.


----------



## FriedRice

Azulx said:


> Thank you for taking the time to watch my videos, and leaving a comment.


 
are you the dude with the 'fro?


----------



## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> In the beginning yes.
> By the time one gets to intermediate level one should be tempered enough that the protective equipment is for the other person.



Not true. Even with a lot of the nerves on my shins being dead, it still can suffer deep bruising, still hurts and can take a long time to heal. Because all the nerves aren't all dead and are still actively, trying to regenerate. If I wanted to hurt someone during hard sparring or a ring fight, I'd rather do so with light shinguards on than without. I can inflict more damage on them while lessening the damage on my protected shins, especially when checking their kicks. 



> In a fight it is unlikely one will have the opportunity to get the equipment to protect ones self.



The answer to this would be, well yes, because I'd have to deal with it at that unplanned moment; but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to wear shinguards during planned sparring to protect my own shins also.



> Beyond beginner level or having an injury shinguards are for protecting your training partner from your kicks not your shins.



No, they're to protect both, all the way up to Champion Pro Fighters, Grand Masters of Destruction, etc.


----------



## Danny T

FriedRice said:


> Not true. Even with a lot of the nerves on my shins being dead, it still can suffer deep bruising, still hurts and can take a long time to heal. Because all the nerves aren't all dead and are still actively, trying to regenerate. If I wanted to hurt someone during hard sparring or a ring fight, I'd rather do so with light shinguards on than without. I can inflict more damage on them while lessening the damage on my protected shins, especially when checking their kicks.
> 
> 
> 
> The answer to this would be, well yes, because I'd have to deal with it at that unplanned moment; but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to wear shinguards during planned sparring to protect my own shins also.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they're to protect both, all the way up to Champion Pro Fighters, Grand Masters of Destruction, etc.


Ok...you wear shinguards to protect your shins.

We wear shinguards to protect the other person. 
It is why, for us, when coaching a fighter the coach wears shinguards and not the fighter.


----------



## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> Ok...you wear shinguards to protect your shins.



No, I said to protect both; my shins and the other people.



> We wear shinguards to protect the other person.
> It is why, for us, when coaching a fighter the coach wears shinguards and not the fighter.



Doing what, holding pads?


----------



## Anarax

FriedRice said:


> Not true. Even with a lot of the nerves on my shins being dead, it still can suffer deep bruising, still hurts and can take a long time to heal. Because all the nerves aren't all dead and are still actively, trying to regenerate.


Though we could debate the philosophical meaning of shin guards, there is a scientific approach/result of shin conditioning. Desensitizing the nerves is only one aspect of limb conditioning. Please refer to the video below. 







FriedRice said:


> If I wanted to hurt someone during hard sparring or a ring fight, I'd rather do so with light shinguards on than without. I can inflict more damage on them while lessening the damage on my protected shins, especially when checking their kicks.



That method being your personal preference is one thing, but there is a quantifiable dynamic as well. A well conditioned shin kick will do more damage than with a shin guard will. A conditioned shin is denser and narrower than a shin guard and will cause more trauma given it has less surface area and is harder. It would be the difference in hitting someone with a baseball bat versus hitting them with a padded baseball bat.


----------



## Danny T

FriedRice said:


> No, I said to protect both; my shins and the other people.
> 
> 
> 
> Doing what, holding pads?


Padwork? Yes as well as kicking the fighter to work their leg defenses (leg shields), body kicks, etc.


----------



## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> Padwork? Yes as well as kicking the fighter to work their leg defenses (leg shields), body kicks, etc.



This is standard padwork. The striker, obviously wouldn't wear shinguards, while kicking the pads. The shinguards still protects both people.


----------



## FriedRice

Anarax said:


> Though we could debate the philosophical meaning of shin guards, there is a scientific approach/result of shin conditioning. Desensitizing the nerves is only one aspect of limb conditioning. Please refer to the video below.



Yes, that's another aspect of shin condition. I didn't say that deadening the nerves was the only aspect.



> That method being your personal preference is one thing, but there is a quantifiable dynamic as well.



It's not my personal preference, I have no control over it through the process of conditioning my shins (unless I'm doing something dumb like rolling bottles). Creating micro fractures + lumpier bone healing at the shins, pretty much comes with kicking the bag, pads and other people, hard....just like it does to deaden the nerves there.



> A well conditioned shin kick will do more damage than with a shin guard will. A conditioned shin is denser and narrower than a shin guard and will cause more trauma given it has less surface area and is harder. It would be the difference in hitting someone with a baseball bat versus hitting them with a padded baseball bat.



From fighting and sparring hard for over 10 years, I would say no. In theory, this sounds good, but after every fight that I had with no shinguards, it took a much longer time to recover from the deep bruising sustained on my shins from being checked, shin on shin.

I'd rather wear very thin shinguards for fights, but not allowed due to the level. But I have no doubt that I can hurt people a lot more with these light shinguards on because there are times during fights where I was getting hurt at the shins and needed to be more cautious, kick less and/or kick lighter when targeting their leg. With light shinguards on, I would have just let it rip with many more kicks at full power.

And shinguards are especially helpful for head kicks where it's usually the instep that lands.....which can lead to a sprain if the tip of the foot contacts the most.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Anarax

FriedRice said:


> Creating micro fractures + lumpier bone healing at the shins, pretty much comes with kicking the bag, pads and other people, hard....just like it does to deaden the nerves there.


You're not going to get harder shins kicking bags and pads. You only get it by kicking hard targets. 



FriedRice said:


> From fighting and sparring hard for over 10 years, I would say no. In theory, this sounds good, but after every fight that I had with no shinguards, it took a much longer time to recover from the deep bruising sustained on my shins from being checked, shin on shin.


It's not a theory, it's proven science. Bases off your description it sounds your shins aren't well conditioned. I feel your pain though, in the past I've clashed shins in sparring and hurt myself. However, that was feedback that I needed to condition my shins, now my shins are a lot harder.   



FriedRice said:


> But I have no doubt that I can hurt people a lot more with these light shinguards on because there are times during fights where I was getting hurt at the shins and needed to be more cautious, kick less and/or kick lighter when targeting their leg. With light shinguards on, I would have just let it rip with many more kicks at full power.



You should try conditioning your shins to get a feel for kicks without shin guards. Generating more power than your bones can handle is pointless, for you'll never be able to use it without injuring yourself, to a reasonable degree anyways.


----------



## FriedRice

Anarax said:


> You're not going to get harder shins kicking bags and pads. You only get it by kicking hard targets.



Read what I said again.



> It's not a theory, it's proven science. Bases off your description it sounds your shins aren't well conditioned. I feel your pain though, in the past I've clashed shins in sparring and hurt myself. However, that was feedback that I needed to condition my shins, now my shins are a lot harder.



I've had 12 fights in the ring. How many have you had?



> You should try conditioning your shins to get a feel for kicks without shin guards. Generating more power than your bones can handle is pointless, for you'll never be able to use it without injuring yourself, to a reasonable degree anyways.



I'm wondering if you even read what I post? The level that I currently fight at, they don't allow shinguards.


----------



## Anarax

FriedRice said:


> I've had 12 fights in the ring. How many have you had?


That's awesome you've had 12 fights in the ring. However, that doesn't change the physiological process of how your shins adapt from conditioning.



FriedRice said:


> I'm wondering if you even read what I post? The level that I currently fight at, they don't allow shinguards.



I read that, I also read


FriedRice said:


> but after every fight that I had with no shinguards, it took a much longer time to recover from the deep bruising sustained on my shins from being checked, shin on shin.


Your comment above draws a distinction on recovery time from when you shinguards vs no shinguards. Thus when you use the term "longer", you're drawing a comparison.   




FriedRice said:


> But I have no doubt that I can hurt people a lot more with these light shinguards on because there are times during fights where I was getting hurt at the shins and needed to be more cautious, kick less and/or kick lighter when targeting their leg.



Harder shins would prevent this from happening or would at least decrease these occurrences. Depending on the level you condition your shins to.

In summary, harder limbs in general are great for any martial artist to have, for both offensive and defensive purposes. A harder surface traveling at the same velocity as a softer one will cause more trauma.


----------



## FriedRice

Anarax said:


> That's awesome you've had 12 fights in the ring. However, that doesn't change the physiological process of how your shins adapt from conditioning.



That's pretty funny.



> I read that, I also read
> 
> Your comment above draws a distinction on recovery time from when you shinguards vs no shinguards. Thus when you use the term "longer", you're drawing a comparison.


 
Re-read it then, I don't feel like retyping, thanks.



> Harder shins would prevent this from happening or would at least decrease these occurrences. Depending on the level you condition your shins to.



I guess you don't fight because every fighter that I've trained with, all wear shinguards during sparring because we don't want deep bruising. And these are ammy and pro MT fighters and a top 30 UFC fighter.



> In summary, harder limbs in general are great for any martial artist to have, for both offensive and defensive purposes. A harder surface traveling at the same velocity as a softer one will cause more trauma.



fo shizzle?


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## Anarax

FriedRice said:


> That's pretty funny.


I'm unsure what's funny about the scientific process of cortical remodeling. The point is you can have as many fights under your belt as you want, but that doesn't change the physiological dynamics of how the human body works.  



FriedRice said:


> I guess you don't fight because every fighter that I've trained with, all wear shinguards during sparring because we don't want deep bruising. And these are ammy and pro MT fighters and a top 30 UFC fighter.


You don't have a clue what I do nor how I train. *If *the pros have conditioned shins then they wear the shinguards to protect their *sparring *partner, not their opponent in a competitive fight. You can't wear shinguards in pro fights anyways.


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## FriedRice

Anarax said:


> I'm unsure what's funny about the scientific process of cortical remodeling. The point is you can have as many fights under your belt as you want, but that doesn't change the physiological dynamics of how the human body works.
> 
> 
> You don't have a clue what I do nor how I train. *If *the pros have conditioned shins then they wear the shinguards to protect their *sparring *partner, not their opponent in a competitive fight. You can't wear shinguards in pro fights anyways.



Wrong. I train with pros and it I can tell that you don't.


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## Azulx

FriedRice said:


> are you the dude with the 'fro?



I mean I guess you could call it a fro , haven’t had a hair cut in a while


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## FriedRice

Azulx said:


> I mean I guess you could call it a fro , haven’t had a hair cut in a while



you have nice hair, i'm just jealous.


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## Tony Dismukes

Anarax said:


> You're not going to get harder shins kicking bags and pads. You only get it by kicking hard targets.



Based on personal experience, I have to disagree with that. Solid Thai pads and a well-stuffed banana bag are plenty hard enough to condition shins through physiologic adaptations if you kick them hard enough and consistently enough.

You don't have to trust my experience, though. This is the same method professional Muay Thai fighters use.


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## Gerry Seymour

FriedRice said:


> Wrong. I train with pros and it I can tell that you don't.


I think you missed the "if".


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## Anarax

Tony Dismukes said:


> Based on personal experience, I have to disagree with that. Solid Thai pads and a well-stuffed banana bag are plenty hard enough to condition shins through physiologic adaptations if you kick them hard enough and consistently enough.
> 
> You don't have to trust my experience, though. This is the same method professional Muay Thai fighters use.



Yes, I know the types of bags and pads you're referring to, we use them at our school as well. However, I was referring to your standard softer bags and pads. The hard bags/pads will definitely condition your shins to a certain degree, but I've walked away with two different sensations after kicking hard pads/bags vs kicking/rolling them with something harder. 

In the past I got more of a superficial stinging sensation when kicking hard bags/pads, but I got a deeper throbbing pain when kicking harder targets. I agree that the harder bags/pads can get you to a certain level in shin conditioning, but you'll eventually plateau out and will need to advance to something harder.


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