# Koshi Guruma to Kesa Gatame



## Henderson (Dec 29, 2005)

Tonight's Judo class consisted of working on Koshi Guruma. It then progressed taking that throw and finishing it off with Kesa Gatame. Any other Judoka have any thoughts on these techniques? Just wanted to start another Judo thread.

For those unfamiliar with these tech, see:

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/koshiguruma.htm

Respects,

Frank


----------



## Lisa (Dec 30, 2005)

The first throw is one I am well familiar with.  I like the throw it gives you good control of your opponent when completed.  Thing to remember is to get your hip in tight and just pop your opponent up.  I have had my much smaller daughter execute this one on my quite easily.

I am sorry but the next link just takes me to the main page and since I am unfamiliar with the terminology I am a bit lost.

I did, however, bookmark the main page for myself, as it gives good references and I thank you for that.  Often you use terms I am unfamiliar with and now have a reference for them.


----------



## Henderson (Dec 30, 2005)

Your very welcome for the link. :asian: 

I find judoinfo.com to be very informative as well.  If you go to the grappling technique section, you should find a pic of kesa gatame very easily.  Sorry the second link didn't work.

Frank


----------



## green meanie (Dec 30, 2005)

Henderson said:
			
		

> Tonight's Judo class consisted of working on Koshi Guruma. It then progressed taking that throw and finishing it off with Kesa Gatame. Any other Judoka have any thoughts on these techniques? Just wanted to start another Judo thread.
> 
> For those unfamiliar with these tech, see:
> 
> ...


 
Firstly, I'm gonna make it easy for everyone and take the liberty of adding a Kesa Gatame link: http://judoinfo.com/images/osaekomi/hon_kesa_gatame.gif or http://judoinfo.com/images/geesink.jpg

To answer your question, I think this tends to be the most natural progression for the throw to the ground. The 'Headlock' to the 'Headlock or Scarf Hold'.

Where does the practice normally go from there? Do you work on any submissions while in Kesa Gatame? If so, what ones?


----------



## Henderson (Dec 30, 2005)

green meanie said:
			
		

> Where does the practice normally go from there? Do you work on any submissions while in Kesa Gatame? If so, what ones?


 
We treat Kesa Gatame itself as a submission.  With the arm that is behind uke's head, roll his/her forehead to tori's armpit.  This tucks the chin and constricts the airway.  Then, maintaining uke's head position, roll back...forcing uke to do a "abdominal crunch".  This motion rolls tori's rib into uke's diaphragm.  Both motions paired together makes for double constriction of uke's breathing, and they tap out pretty quickly.

Respects,

Frank


----------



## green meanie (Dec 30, 2005)

Henderson said:
			
		

> We treat Kesa Gatame itself as a submission. With the arm that is behind uke's head, roll his/her forehead to tori's armpit. This tucks the chin and constricts the airway. Then, maintaining uke's head position, roll back...forcing uke to do a "abdominal crunch". This motion rolls tori's rib into uke's diaphragm. Both motions paired together makes for double constriction of uke's breathing, and they tap out pretty quickly.
> 
> Respects,
> 
> Frank


 
Excellent. Anything else?


----------



## Andrew Green (Dec 30, 2005)

Well, I'm no Judo-ka, but I like landing in Kesa-gatame off that kinda throw too.

And I do mean land, once they are over you kinda jump into it dropping your weight on them, makes the throw a little less plesent and get you low enough to avoid a counter.

I have seen this pin turned into a choke as well, however we found that on experienced grapplers it just didn't work, perhaps you are doing something a little different.  How about shooting a picture and posting that?

Looking at the pictures of the pin his head seems a little high and he could be reversed, when holding the pin we took the head right down pretty much to the shoulder.

It is also important to keep the arm you have's shoulder from being able to touch down, get your knee under it if you can.  

You also want to keep your weight on him, but not over him, so your hips are slightly off the ground and you are really giving him a good squish.

It is also a good transition position to cycle with side mount and north south, because you have the arm when you change position you can keep the elbow away from the body and end up in a good control position set up to attack when you switch.
From this position you have a good number of submissions to work for.


----------



## Henderson (Jan 2, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> I have seen this pin turned into a choke as well, however we found that on experienced grapplers it just didn't work, perhaps you are doing something a little different. How about shooting a picture and posting that?


 
I don't happen to have any pics of this available to post.  I think maybe we are "landing" this is little differently than the traditional application, so I will attempt to describe it.

Execute Koshi Guruma as normal up to the point that uke is falling on his/her own.  As uke begins to fall, shoot your right leg out toward your left front atbout 45-degrees, and fall with him/her.  In this manner, tori does not pull up on uke's left sleeve to assist in the side fall.  Uke lands flat on his back with tori on his diaphragm.  Basically, uke has all the air knocked out of him/her.  Immediately apply kesa gatame as in my previous post.  Time from kuzushi to tap-out?  Maybe 2 seconds.  Try it!

Frank


----------



## Henderson (Jan 2, 2006)

**Safety Note**

If you have never tried this throw/hold combination before, please be very careful.  It can be very vicious, especially when landing on uke's ribs.  And remember, if you break your partner, you can't play anymore.


----------



## tshadowchaser (Jan 2, 2006)

Koshi Guruma is one of my favorite throws and is in more than one Kata in my system.  Following it up with Kesa Gatame or a variation seems logical providing you end up on your feet and don't lose control of the throw.

I also like to end up with an arm bar but then that comes from my forms also  so I may just be more used to moveing into that tech.

and yes thanks for the link


----------



## Henderson (Jan 4, 2006)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> Koshi Guruma is one of my favorite throws and is in more than one Kata in my system. Following it up with Kesa Gatame or a variation seems logical *providing you end up on your feet* and don't lose control of the throw.


I am having trouble imagining executing Koshi Guruma and falling straight into Kesa Gatame AND ending up on my feet. Or am I misunderstanding the statement above? It wouldn't be the first time!

Respects,

Frank


----------



## Henderson (May 29, 2006)

green meanie said:
			
		

> Excellent. Anything else?


 
Yes.  Figure-4 arm lock with uke's right arm under tori's right leg from kesa gatame.  A-la Prof. Jay.


----------



## Jitsuka91 (Oct 14, 2007)

I love this combination too because It normally takes the wind out of their sails pretty quickly, epically when you do it to a non- judo/jitsu person, I have used it in friendly scraps before which finishes them nice and quick


----------



## Gentle Fist (Dec 12, 2007)

My kids level the other schools in tournaments all the time with this combo!!!  Awesome Combo!!!


----------



## Cirdan (Dec 13, 2007)

Trapping the opponent`s arm with your knee in hon kesa gatame can inflict a lot of pain unless he/she is very flexible.

By the way, hon kesa gatame is often called the "pesant strangler" because you can`t make any experienced person tap out using it.


----------

