# Got my butt whopped by a Kickboxing champion until I started jabbing him



## Axiom

How could a simple flick of the wrist be such a potent weapon against a kicker? Well, it is!

Are Kickboxers not used to constant jabbing? It totally upset his rhytm. He was much more skilled than I.


My belief in boxing grows by the minute, even against kickboxers...


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> Are Kickboxers not used to constant jabbing?



Yes they are, just not this one it seems. You should be very careful not to classify all kickboxers by one person, it will lead to you getting nasty surprises.


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## MA_Student

Kickboxing has exactly the same punches as boxing so yes they should know to deal with a jab...kickboxing is boxing with kicks hence the name kickBOXING


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## Axiom

Tez3 said:


> Yes they are, just not this one it seems. You should be very careful not to classify all kickboxers by one person, it will lead to you getting nasty surprises.



He was a Serbian National Champion in Kickboxing. 



MA_Student said:


> Kickboxing has exactly the same punches as boxing so yes they should know to deal with a jab...kickboxing is boxing with kicks hence the name kickBOXING



No. Kickboxing is a hole different ball game. Different stances, footwork, bodymechanics, headmovement, strategies etc.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> He was a Serbian National Champion in Kickboxing.
> 
> 
> 
> No. Kickboxing is a hole different ball game. Different stances, footwork, bodymechanics, headmovement, strategies etc.


And how do you know this...you don't train in boxing we all know that since you've been asking if it's worth it and I'm willing to bet you haven't done kickboxing either since you're saying about testing for your black belt next year so Im assuming it's not kickboxing you do


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## CB Jones

Axiom said:


> He was a Serbian National Champion in Kickboxing.



What organization?

Seems fishy...he is national champion but can't handle simple jabs.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Axiom said:


> He was a Serbian National Champion in Kickboxing.
> 
> 
> 
> No. Kickboxing is a hole different ball game. Different stances, footwork, bodymechanics, headmovement, strategies etc.


National/international championships don't mean much, considering how many different organizations there are. I met a national champion in karate (forget what org.), in order to get that she had to beat 3 other people. Much less impressive when you scrutinize it.

And kickboxing is different, but a lot of it is the same. They absolutely know how to deal with jab/cross/hook/uppercut combos.


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## Headhunter

Axiom said:


> He was a Serbian National Champion in Kickboxing.
> 
> 
> 
> No. Kickboxing is a hole different ball game. Different stances, footwork, bodymechanics, headmovement, strategies etc.


Lol stop embarrassing yourself man I've trained and competed in both there's not much difference at all. In fact for most of my boxing matches I trained in a kickboxing club because it was more convenient for me. There's loads of kickboxing who fight in boxing matches because at least in my area there's more boxing cards than kickboxing so if it was completely different they wouldn't be able to. You need to stop making up stuff to make yourself sound clever because there's experts in pretty much every style here and lies will get caught very quick


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## KenpoBoxer

Okay I'm calling bs on this story. You're telling me a taekwondo brown belt (or the equivalent) who's only been training 4 years beat up a kickboxing champion...by throwing a jab...yeah sorry not believing this I'm afraid


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## Axiom

KenpoBoxer said:


> Okay I'm calling bs on this story. You're telling me a taekwondo brown belt (or the equivalent) who's only been training 4 years beat up a kickboxing champion...by throwing a jab...yeah sorry not believing this I'm afraid



Were did I write that I beat him up?


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## KenpoBoxer

Axiom said:


> Were did I write that I beat him up?


You claimed you managed to start winning by using a jab...sorry your whole story is stinks of bs


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## Axiom

Headhunter said:


> Lol stop embarrassing yourself man I've trained and competed in both there's not much difference at all. In fact for most of my boxing matches I trained in a kickboxing club because it was more convenient for me. There's loads of kickboxing who fight in boxing matches because at least in my area there's more boxing cards than kickboxing so if it was completely different they wouldn't be able to. You need to stop making up stuff to make yourself sound clever because there's experts in pretty much every style here and lies will get caught very quick



I don't believe you have. Your just as much of a pretender as your twin brother. Anybody claiming that kickboxing has the same punching mechanics as boxing could not possibly have done either one.


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## Axiom

KenpoBoxer said:


> You claimed you managed to start winning by using a jab



No I didn't. How's that reading comprehension?


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## Headhunter

Axiom said:


> I don't believe you have. Your just as much of a pretender as your twin brother. Anybody claiming that kickboxing has the same punching mechanics as boxing could not possibly have done either one.


Lol twin? Wtf have you been smoking....you haven't done either of them we all know that you haven't yet you're claiming to be an expert and telling professional fighters there technique is wrong and telling us all how you're guaranteed your black belt. I have done them trust me unlike some I don't know to make up garbage to big myself up I know I've done them and I honestly don't if you believe me but I know what I say is true can't say the same for you


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## hoshin1600

Axiom said:


> He was a Serbian National Champion in Kickboxing.


oh well see ..that explains it. everyone knows that Serbian kickboxers have a weakness for being poked or punched in the nose.  their eyes have a blind spot in the center of their face.  the Ottomans took good advantage of this during the Balkan wars of 1912.  the Ottomans would just walk right up to them and poke them in the nose with a long stick and it would send them running.  in fact that is how the Ottomans took over  Serbia, there was a lot of finger poking in the nose going on back then.


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## Axiom

He had such an overwhelming advantage on theoretical scorecards that me coming back around the end made no difference, but it would have been interesting if we had started over again. It was a 3 minute sparring encounter.

I will challenge him tommorow and see how he does then.


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## Axiom

Headhunter said:


> Lol twin?



Go away, troll.


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## KenpoBoxer




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## Axiom

hoshin1600 said:


> oh well see ..that explains it. everyone knows that Serbian kickboxers have a weakness for being poked or punched in the nose.  their eyes have a blind spot in the center of their face.  the Ottomans took good advantage of this during the Balkan wars of 1912.  the Ottomans would just walk right up to them and poke them in the nose with a long stick and it would send them running.  in fact that is how the Ottomans took over  Serbia, there was a lot of finger poking in the nose going on back then.



You mean to tell me that national champions are poor representatives? If he was stunned, how on earth would an average guy do? I just mentioned his nationality in case anyone wondered.


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## Headhunter

Axiom said:


> Go away, troll.


Lol don't worry I ain't wasting my time on your threads anymore..now quick you better go catch up with Rodger gracie to tell him how his Jiu Jitsu technique is bad


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## Axiom

I may have a sadiomasochistic side to my personality, but I actually enjoyed getting my butt kicked for once. He reminds me of myself as a young 20 year old.


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## MA_Student

.


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> He was a Serbian National Champion in Kickboxing.



Which one?  Andrija Stankovic? 











Stevan Živković?







Axiom said:


> No. Kickboxing is a hole different ball game. Different stances, footwork, bodymechanics, headmovement, strategies etc.



It's in a hole?


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> You mean to tell me that national champions are poor representatives? If he was stunned, how on earth would an average guy do? I just mentioned his nationality in case anyone wondered.


I'm sorry but legitimate champion fighter is going to get stunned by a jab it just isn't going to happen. Maybe this guy told you he's a champion when in fact he isn't. Maybe he's the one lying not you I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> I may have a sadiomasochistic side to my personality, but I actually enjoyed getting my butt kicked for once. He reminds me of myself as a young 20 year old.



For goodness sake you are only 28 now, I've been in martial arts for 40 odd years, been an instructor for 30 years and I don't even pretend I know everything about martial arts, still busy learning. I do know my basics though, I also know boxing, started that when I was about five my father, an army boxer taught me.


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## Axiom

Tez3 said:


> Which one?  Andrija Stankovic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stevan Živković?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's in a hole?



He claims to have been champion as a junior. He is only 21 or something.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> He claims to have been champion as a junior. He is only 21 or something.


And there's the word /claims/


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## MA_Student

Tez3 said:


> For goodness sake you are only 28 now, I've been in martial arts for 40 odd years, been an instructor for 30 years and I don't even pretend I know everything about martial arts, still busy learning. I do know my basics though, I also know boxing, started that when I was about five my father, an army boxer taught me.


Cool but what was odd about them? Lol


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## Axiom

MA_Student said:


> And there's the word /claims/



Who knows what national championship. But it's a championship of some sort. He kicks better than everybody at the TaeKwonDo club. Inference to the best explanation.


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> He claims to have been champion as a junior. He is only 21 or something.



Oh of course.




MA_Student said:


> Cool but what was odd about them? Lol



 Oh they were (and still are) very odd! Totally nuts in parts, it's why I'm what I like to think of as eccentric now but most people just think I'm crazy!


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## Axiom

I can't match him with the kicking. He's too fast and kicks incredibly hard. I tried a kick challenge twice and he even floored me the second time. 

So now I will simply box his head off. Hopefully


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> He was a Serbian National Champion in Kickboxing.





Axiom said:


> Who knows what national championship. But it's a championship of some sort. He kicks better than everybody at the TaeKwonDo club. Inference to the best explanation.




You are backtracking, you stated ( see quote above) he was a Serbian National champion, now he's just a good kicker. 



Axiom said:


> I can't match him with the kicking. He's too fast and kicks incredibly hard. I tried a kick challenge twice and he even floored me the second time.
> 
> So now I will simply box his head off. Hopefully



Nope, if he has any fight savvy he will not let you close enough to box him. Why 'box' him anyway you are supposed to be training TKD? I know there's more strikes in TKD than just a jab and cross, why aren't you using them? If your TKD isn't enough then perhaps you shouldn't be grading for black after all, it's fine having nice techniques when doing them on your own but if you can't spar...................


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## Axiom

Tez3 said:


> You are backtracking, you stated ( see quote above) he was a Serbian National champion, now he's just a good kicker.
> .....



How I'm a backtracking? He's a Serbian National Champion who moved to a different country and joined a TaeKwondo club. I thought yeah sure, champion... I was completely asleep at the switch and pummeled me. Even knocked me down with a spinning sidekick, through my guard. I have never, ever, been knocked down in 4 years of doing TKD.

 My strategy is to soften him up by jabbing him at a far and counter with a cross when he steps in. I never got a chance to do that because time was out shortly after I started to turn the tables.


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## Axiom

I said that I don't know which championship. What federation etc.


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## Axiom

Tez3 said:


> ? I know there's more strikes in TKD than just a jab and cross, why aren't you using them?..



Because the sparring rules only allow them as punching goes in International TaeKwondo Federation.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> How I'm a backtracking? He's a Serbian National Champion who moved to a different country and joined a TaeKwondo club. I thought yeah sure, champion... I was completely asleep at the switch and pummeled me. Even knocked me down with a spinning sidekick, through my guard. I have never, ever, been knocked down in 4 years of doing TKD.
> 
> My strategy is to soften him up by jabbing him at a far and counter with a cross when he steps in. I never got a chance to do that because time was out shortly after I started to turn the tables.


Ah the old excuse I would've won but time ran out


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> *How I'm a backtracking? He's a Serbian National Champion*






Axiom said:


> He claims to have been champion as a junior. He is only 21 or something.





Axiom said:


> Who knows what national championship. But it's a championship of some sort. He kicks better than everybody at the TaeKwonDo club. Inference to the best explanation.





Axiom said:


> He's a Serbian National Champion who moved to a different country a





Axiom said:


> I said that I don't know which championship. What federation etc



Not backtracking? okay if you say so.




Axiom said:


> Because the sparring rules only allow them as punching goes in International TaeKwondo Federation.



Then you should practise your TKD punches and definitely your kicks.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> How I'm a backtracking? He's a Serbian National Champion who moved to a different country and joined a TaeKwondo club. I thought yeah sure, champion... I was completely asleep at the switch and pummeled me. Even knocked me down with a spinning sidekick, through my guard. I have never, ever, been knocked down in 4 years of doing TKD.
> 
> My strategy is to soften him up by jabbing him at a far and counter with a cross when he steps in. I never got a chance to do that because time was out shortly after I started to turn the tables.


Dude you seem to be under the impression that 4 years is a long time...n martial arts 4 years is nothing there's people on here who've been training for 40 years. Now I haven't trained nearly as long as some here I've only been training 10 years and I know how little that time really is


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## Axiom

Punching must be in a straight trajectory in ITF.  Some people throw hooks as a dirty tactic but it's prohibited in the formal rules.  I think I can outbox him with mainly straight punching (I might dirty it up if he wants to go down that path). But yeah, allowing me to throw hooks and uppercuts would probably help me a lot.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> Punching must be in a straight trajectory in ITF.  Some people throw hooks as a dirty tactic but it's prohibited in the formal rules.  I think I can outbox him with mainly straight punching (I might dirty it up if he wants to go down that path). But yeah, allowing me to throw hooks and uppercuts would probably help me a lot.


Wait you don't throw hook punches in sparring yet you were critiquing a fighters hook punch....do you see the issue with that


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## Axiom

MA_Student said:


> Wait you don't throw hook punches in sparring yet you were critiquing a fighters hook punch....do you see the issue with that



Slow down partner. We got the hook in TKD. But it's prohibited in sparring.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> Slow down partner. We got the hook in TKD. But it's prohibited in sparring.


So you've only thrown in the air and on pads....you don't know if you can actually use it in real fighting again do you see the issue with that


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## Axiom

MA_Student said:


> So you've only thrown in the air and on pads....you don't know if you can actually use it in real fighting again do you see the issue with that



The thread was about the technique, how he threw it against the heavy bag. It looked incredibly akward to me.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> The thread was about the technique, how he threw it against the heavy bag. It looked incredibly akward to me.


Yep because you know than a professional fighter right? See that's the thing your threads are making you sound incredibly big headed


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## Axiom

MA_Student said:


> Yep because you know than a professional fighter right? See that's the thing your threads are making you sound incredibly big headed



Is Bas Rutten sacred? I can express my opinion about anyone.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> Is Bas Rutten sacred? I can express my opinion about anyone.


If I came to you and started criticising your taekwondo and all your forms you'd call me arrogant especially since Ive never trained taekwondo In my life. So it's no different to you criticising a mma fighters boxing technique when you've never done boxing or mma


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## Axiom

MA_Student said:


> If I came to you and started criticising your taekwondo and all your forms you'd call me arrogant especially since Ive never trained taekwondo In my life. So it's no different to you criticising a mma fighters boxing technique when you've never done boxing or mma



Well we have hooks in TKD and it looks nothing like the way he threw it, and very much like a boxers...


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> Well we have hooks in TKD and it looks nothing like the way he threw it, and very much like a boxers...


Maybe that's because....he's an mma fighter not a taekwondo fighter


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> Well we have hooks in TKD and it looks nothing like the way he threw it, and very much like a boxers...



Doh! I think it's time you gave this up. Your understanding of your knowledge of different martial arts is flawed. You have your black belt grading coming up, concentrate on that and don't worry how other people are doing techniques. If you want to watch sparring etc watch videos from the Olympic TKD which is what you seem to be training, listen to what your instructors tell you and train, train and train. I used to have a T shirt which said "STFU AND TRAIN." it's good advice.



MA_Student said:


> Maybe that's because....he's an mma fighter not a taekwondo fighter



You got there before me.


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## drop bear

Yes a decent jab can set up your entire fight. Doesn't really matter who it was against. Keep up the good work.


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## Tony Dismukes

A few thoughts...

"Champion" doesn't necessarily mean much unless you know the details of how that title was won.

Technically, I could claim to be a "kickboxing champion." I have a championship belt and everything:







In reality, that "championship" was for a single tournament and I only had one opponent in my division. I'm proud of the win, but there are several orders of magnitude between that accomplishment and a K1 championship.

Also, you're way overgeneralizing from a sample size of one. What you know is that this particular student, who has some sort of kickboxing background and has good kicks (by your standards) and (if he is to be believed) won some sort of championship (which may have been as small time as my "championship"), has trouble handling a jab.

I can guarantee you that there are tons of kickboxers out there who use jabs extensively and defend against them very well.

That said, a good jab is a wonderful tool. Keep working on developing it and using it in your sparring with everyone. Just don't expect it to be some sort of magical kickboxer kryptonite.


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## Martial D

Axiom said:


> How could a simple flick of the wrist be such a potent weapon against a kicker? Well, it is!
> 
> Are Kickboxers not used to constant jabbing? It totally upset his rhytm. He was much more skilled than I.
> 
> 
> My belief in boxing grows by the minute, even against kickboxers...


Wait aren't you the guy that was asking if he should start boxing last week? And now after what..one or two lessons your beating champion kickboxers?

I guess if it's on the internet it must be true.


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## Axiom

MA_Student said:


> Maybe that's because....he's an mma fighter not a taekwondo fighter



There's no such thing as an MMA hook!


Tony Dismukes said:


> A few thoughts...
> 
> "Champion" doesn't necessarily mean much unless you know the details of how that title was won.
> 
> Technically, I could claim to be a "kickboxing champion." I have a championship belt and everything:
> 
> View attachment 20997
> 
> 
> In reality, that "championship" was for a single tournament and I only had one opponent in my division. I'm proud of the win, but there are several orders of magnitude between that accomplishment and a K1 championship.
> 
> Also, you're way overgeneralizing from a sample size of one. What you know is that this particular student, who has some sort of kickboxing background and has good kicks (by your standards) and (if he is to be believed) won some sort of championship (which may have been as small time as my "championship"), has trouble handling a jab.
> 
> I can guarantee you that there are tons of kickboxers out there who use jabs extensively and defend against them very well.
> 
> That said, a good jab is a wonderful tool. Keep working on developing it and using it in your sparring with everyone. Just don't expect it to be some sort of magical kickboxer kryptonite.



He's not the only one. All the face punching TKD guys are upset by it and get clocked


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## Martial D

Axiom said:


> There's no such thing as an MMA hook!



That's not exactly true. If you throw from your toes with your feet close together in mma, you'll probably end up on your back. In boxing, throwing this way works as it adds mobility.


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## Axiom

Martial D said:


> That's not exactly true. If you throw from your toes with your feet close together in mma, you'll probably end up on your back. In boxing, throwing this way works as it adds mobility.



Point is that mma is not a martial art, it is a blend of martial arts, including boxing.


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## Tony Dismukes

Axiom said:


> He's not the only one. All the face punching TKD guys are upset by it and get clocked


This would be a sign that the guys in your school don't spend enough time using and defending against jabs.  Keep using it. They'll learn.


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## Axiom

Tony Dismukes said:


> This would be a sign that the guys in your school don't spend enough time using and defending against jabs.  Keep using it. They'll learn.



 But how many top level Kickboxers do you see using the jab extensively? I was a big fan of K1 back in the day... Those giants weren't really using it that much, that I can recall.


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## Martial D

Axiom said:


> Point is that mma is not a martial art, it is a blend of martial arts, including boxing.


I don't know about that. MMA draws from anything and everything that works, but in execution all of those elements are different than their parent arts.

MMA boxing is distinct from classical boxing, MMA grappling is distinct from BJJ or wrestling, mma footwork is distinct from karate/boxing/mt/etc footwork. All for the same reason;there are more elements at play. 

I would say that over all, mma is a distinct martial art. To say it is not because it contains elements of other martial arts is to eliminate a good deal of other martial arts such as karate, judo, aikido etc etc from the category of 'martial art' also.


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> There's no such thing as an MMA hook!



One of the joys of MMA is that you can adapt any technique to your specific needs and ability. It offers the freedom to tweak techniques and moves to suit your body shape, height etc. so a hook punch might not look like the classical hook punch but if it works for you then it's an excellent hook punch. The same goes for every other strike, kick and technique.


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## Axiom

Tez3 said:


> One of the joys of MMA is that you can adapt any technique to your specific needs and ability. It offers the freedom to tweak techniques and moves to suit your body shape, height etc. so a hook punch might not look like the classical hook punch but if it works for you then it's an excellent hook punch. The same goes for every other strike, kick and technique.



The majority of mma fighters take boxing classes. That's just a fact.


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> The majority of mma fighters take boxing classes. That's just a fact.



Oh dear. Here we go again. No the majority of MMA fighters don't take boxing classes, it's more usually Muay Thai. This isn't because boxing isn't effective, it is, but because MT stances etc allow for kicking whereas boxing doesn't. None of my fighters have taken boxing, all do Muay Thai and or kickboxing. Most of the other fighters I know are the same. Nothing wrong with boxing at all just Muay Thai along with kickboxing (as well as TKD and karate) are more compatible with kicking.  Boxing stances can also be a bit narrow allowing easier take downs. 
Even if they did take boxing it doesn't negate my statement that in MMA you can adapt it to make it easier/more effective for your personal use.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> Point is that mma is not a martial art, it is a blend of martial arts, including boxing.


Most styles are a mix of other styles


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> The majority of mma fighters take boxing classes. That's just a fact.


Yes and the majority also take wrestling, Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu and fitness class as well what's your point?


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> Point is that mma is not a martial art, it is a blend of martial arts, including boxing.


So you're telling me that rory macdonald doesn't know martial arts then


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## Headhunter

Axiom said:


> Point is that mma is not a martial art, it is a blend of martial arts, including boxing.


Seriously?...


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> ................., it is a blend of martial arts, including boxing.



What gave it away? I'd never have guessed in a million years.......


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## Axiom

Tez3 said:


> What gave it away? I'd never have guessed in a million years.......



Well, you guys want to let him off the *hook *(punt intended) due to his mma backgrund. Although it was probably less common back in Ruttens time, today most if not all  MMA-guys take boxing classes and some are quite decent, like Nate Diaz and Conor Mcgregor.


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## Tez3

Axiom said:


> Well, you guys want to let him off the *hook *(punt intended) due to his mma backgrund. Although it was probably less common back in Ruttens time, today most if not all  MMA-guys take boxing classes and some are quite decent, like Nate Diaz and Conor Mcgregor.



So what experience do you have in MMA? I've give you a bit of my background in it, I came across it at the end of the 1990s, had a go, I coach fighters pros and amateurs, ref, judge, promote and corner ( never time keep, I wouldn't do that in karate comps either lol). We are sponsored by Fairtex to whom we send fighters to train in Thailand. Sooo when I tell you that most MMA fighters train Muay Thai or kickboxing because it's compatible with kicking I am telling the truth. Many MMA gyms have what they call 'standup' classes for fighters, this is what it says it is... stand up fighting for MMA ( just thought I'd be obvious), it will be dirty boxing, striking for kickers, (kick boxing striking), elbows, back fists  etc whatever works ( the MMA mantra).
Conor McGregor didn't do boxing for MMA, he was a boxer before MMA and has adapted his boxing along with doing MT for MMA.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> Well, you guys want to let him off the *hook *(punt intended) due to his mma backgrund. Although it was probably less common back in Ruttens time, today most if not all  MMA-guys take boxing classes and some are quite decent, like Nate Diaz and Conor Mcgregor.


Let him off the hook? What are you on about his hook obviously works very well. Also as I've said mma fighters train /everything/ hence the name MIXED martial arts


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## drop bear

Our MMA guys train boxing. Just saying.


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## Danny T

Axiom said:


> Point is that mma is not a martial art, it is a blend of martial arts, including boxing.


In the beginning of the 'mma' craze you would be correct. However, it has been over 20 years now and mma today is a martial art with some rather specific training for it. It is specific for sport training but there are now Fitness MMA Clubs and even MMA for Self Defense. Some people may not consider MMA an art but it has grown in one.


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## Tez3

drop bear said:


> Our MMA guys train boxing. Just saying.



Pure boxing or adapted boxing for MMA? Do they hold their arms as boxers do and keep a narrow boxing stance? Boxing for MMA has adaptations which are necessary unless they want to be taken down very quickly.
When people say 'boxing' for MMA they don't mean classical boxing, they mean 'standup for MMA'. classical boxing doesn't allow for kicking, elbows, backfists, spinning moves etc etc. the punching in boxing is great, if you've trained as a boxer again, great but you cannot go into an MMA fights doing classical boxing.

Not mine but a succinct comparison. A good boxer won't have any difficulty *adapting.*
_"Let’s take a look at the difference between the way a boxer boxes and the way a MMA fighter boxes._

_The main differences are…_


_*How to cover up and absorb punches to the head* – The gloves that are used as a boxer are quite a bit bigger than the gloves used in MMA. This gives you a larger shield to hide behind when your opponent attacks. Also the impact the fighter receives is not transferred to the head as much with the large gloves of a boxer as it is with MMA gloves. So where as a boxer may cover up by putting his gloves directly in front of his face and letting the impact be absorbed by the gloves, a mixed martial artist needs to defend differently. The preferred cover up method for MMA is to use the forearms and elbows. For a straight punch the hands are placed palm down against the top of the forehead, which puts the forearms in the correct position in front of the face. For hooks, the palm of the hand is slid to the back of the head, which brings the entire outside of the arm into position to protect the side of the head._
_*How to duck under punches* – In a fight, a boxer will commonly duck under a punch by bending forward at the waist. In MMA your opponent is allowed to knee and/or kick you in the head. So if you duck a punch by bending at the waist while in a MMA fight, you could be asking for trouble. It is a much better idea to keep your body upright and bend your knees to duck under the attack. This will protect you from eating that unwanted knee to the face._
_*Why you pinpoint your strikes* – In both sports it is important to throw accurate strikes. If you hit a vulnerable area of an opponent’s body, you will cause more damage and that is the ultimate goal of throwing your strikes in both sports. But with the lighter MMA gloves on, there is one other reason to throw your punches accurately. They don’t offer your hand as much protection as a heavily padded glove does. If you miss your target and hit the forehead for example, it could result in a broken hand a lot easier than if you had larger gloves on. So when you throw your punches, aim._
_*How hard of a punch you can take* – A professional boxer wears gloves that are usually around 10 oz, but the gloves used in MMA are only 4 oz. This drastically changes how hard of a shot you can take without going down. Now this does not mean you should be passive and not engage the opponent out of fear of taking damage. It only makes the instruction all fighters are given “Protect yourself at all times” that much more important. Hit and don’t be hit."_


----------



## drop bear

Tez3 said:


> Pure boxing or adapted boxing for MMA? Do they hold their arms as boxers do and keep a narrow boxing stance? Boxing for MMA has adaptations which are necessary unless they want to be taken down very quickly.
> When people say 'boxing' for MMA they don't mean classical boxing, they mean 'standup for MMA'. classical boxing doesn't allow for kicking, elbows, backfists, spinning moves etc etc. the punching in boxing is great, if you've trained as a boxer again, great but you cannot go into an MMA fights doing classical boxing.
> 
> Not mine but a succinct comparison. A good boxer won't have any difficulty *adapting.*
> _"Let’s take a look at the difference between the way a boxer boxes and the way a MMA fighter boxes._
> 
> _The main differences are…_
> 
> 
> _*How to cover up and absorb punches to the head* – The gloves that are used as a boxer are quite a bit bigger than the gloves used in MMA. This gives you a larger shield to hide behind when your opponent attacks. Also the impact the fighter receives is not transferred to the head as much with the large gloves of a boxer as it is with MMA gloves. So where as a boxer may cover up by putting his gloves directly in front of his face and letting the impact be absorbed by the gloves, a mixed martial artist needs to defend differently. The preferred cover up method for MMA is to use the forearms and elbows. For a straight punch the hands are placed palm down against the top of the forehead, which puts the forearms in the correct position in front of the face. For hooks, the palm of the hand is slid to the back of the head, which brings the entire outside of the arm into position to protect the side of the head._
> _*How to duck under punches* – In a fight, a boxer will commonly duck under a punch by bending forward at the waist. In MMA your opponent is allowed to knee and/or kick you in the head. So if you duck a punch by bending at the waist while in a MMA fight, you could be asking for trouble. It is a much better idea to keep your body upright and bend your knees to duck under the attack. This will protect you from eating that unwanted knee to the face._
> _*Why you pinpoint your strikes* – In both sports it is important to throw accurate strikes. If you hit a vulnerable area of an opponent’s body, you will cause more damage and that is the ultimate goal of throwing your strikes in both sports. But with the lighter MMA gloves on, there is one other reason to throw your punches accurately. They don’t offer your hand as much protection as a heavily padded glove does. If you miss your target and hit the forehead for example, it could result in a broken hand a lot easier than if you had larger gloves on. So when you throw your punches, aim._
> _*How hard of a punch you can take* – A professional boxer wears gloves that are usually around 10 oz, but the gloves used in MMA are only 4 oz. This drastically changes how hard of a shot you can take without going down. Now this does not mean you should be passive and not engage the opponent out of fear of taking damage. It only makes the instruction all fighters are given “Protect yourself at all times” that much more important. Hit and don’t be hit."_



Yeah we have a real live boxing coach and everything. Got a couple of golden gloves recently. I think one guy is going for a title.

We do MMA boxing as well.

None of the base arts are unchanged in MMA but the base arts still provide good situational skills.

So yes we do boxing but yes we do other things.

We certainly throw jabs.

By the way you are not technically supposed to break at the hip in a boxing duck either.


----------



## Tez3

drop bear said:


> Yeah we have a real live boxing coach and everything. Got a couple of golden gloves recently. I think one guy is going for a title.
> 
> *We do MMA boxing as well.*
> 
> *None of the base arts are unchanged in MMA but the base arts still provide good situational skills.*
> 
> .



This is what we were saying. We've had a boxing coach in to help now and again. We do tend to scare him a bit because our legs and knees tend to come up instinctively to kick lol.



drop bear said:


> By the way you are not technically supposed to break at the hip in a boxing duck either



As someone said previously, very good boxers can break the rules and make it work.


----------



## drop bear

Tez3 said:


> This is what we were saying. We've had a boxing coach in to help now and again. We do tend to scare him a bit because our legs and knees tend to come up instinctively to kick lol.
> 
> As someone said previously, very good boxers can break the rules and make it work.



Both of you are saying it is a blend.

Our boxing coach just kicks us in the nuts when we go off reservation.


----------



## Tez3

drop bear said:


> Both of you are saying it is a blend.
> 
> Our boxing coach just kicks us in the nuts when we go off reservation.



Who both of us? And ...OUCH!


----------



## drop bear

Tez3 said:


> Who both of us? And ...OUCH!



He is short. Some sort of a short man thing.

Here we go. Not breaking at the hip





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156016353104271
			




Cant see an issue with hands like that going into a MMA fight.


----------



## Tez3

drop bear said:


> Cant see an issue with hands like that going into a MMA fight



The leggings could be an issue though, that's women's wear here lol. Is he the boxer or an MMA fighter?


----------



## Tony Dismukes

Tez3 said:


> The leggings could be an issue though, that's women's wear here lol. Is he the boxer or an MMA fighter?


He's confident in his masculinity. He doesn't feel the need to conform to artificial societal dictates regarding gender specific clothing.


----------



## drop bear

Tez3 said:


> The leggings could be an issue though, that's women's wear here lol. Is he the boxer or an MMA fighter?



Boxer.

Leggings are cool.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

drop bear said:


> Leggings are cool.


Lots of BJJ guys are wearing them now for no-gi. I'm just not willing to spend the money unless prices come down.


----------



## drop bear

Tony Dismukes said:


> Lots of BJJ guys are wearing them now for no-gi. I'm just not willing to spend the money unless prices come down.



You can get them cheap on eBay. Skins you of course have to take out a mortgage for.


----------



## Tez3

Tony Dismukes said:


> He's confident in his masculinity. He doesn't feel the need to conform to artificial societal dictates regarding gender specific clothing.



Well it might be more upset about the fit, tailoring made for the female form doesn't suit the male form.  still I'm sure he'll make a good soprano ( or castrato)


----------



## punisher73

Axiom said:


> The majority of mma fighters take boxing classes. That's just a fact.



Depends on the gym, the trainer and the fighter.  You have certain guys like Diaz brothers who got their start in BJJ and then trained in boxing to add to their game and were very successful about it.  There are certain gyms like Straight Blast Gym under Matt Thorton who do BJJ/Boxing as well.

If you look at the main MMA gyms in the US, then you will usually find the main mix to be BJJ/Wrestling/Muay Thai.  Again, depending on the gym that mix will vary and the base art will vary depending on the head coaches emphasis.  For example, is it a striking emphasis gym that supplements with grappling or vice versa.


----------



## punisher73

Axiom said:


> Well, you guys want to let him off the *hook *(punt intended) due to his mma backgrund. Although it was probably less common back in Ruttens time, today most if not all  MMA-guys take boxing classes and some are quite decent, like Nate Diaz and Conor Mcgregor.



You do realize that even in "boxing" different trainers teach the basic punches a little bit different right?  For example, some teach the jab as a vertical punch meant to slide through the opponent's guard, others will teach it with the twist to try and tear skin with your gloves.  Others don't care.  You realize that there are also different VERSIONS of the basic jab, like the "left jolt" that Dempsey taught or using the arm only for a "speed jab"?

When it comes to hook punches, some teach a vertical fist configuration when landing and others a horizontal landing with the palm down.  Then you get into different distances for the hook punch.  Purists will say that the only true "hook punch" has the elbow bent at 90 degrees or tighter and is only used close in (elbow range).  Others will open up the elbow and use it from a distance, what the purists would call a roundhouse "swing". Some boxing trainers say that there is no rear hand hook punch and that it is a swing and the only true hook punch is done with the lead hand.  Then we get into traditional martial arts and a hook punch and you have various methods of throwing it properly as well, look at how Isshin-Ryu throws it in comparision to a kung fu style.

So, to say that Bas Rutten throws it "wrong" is ignorant of the many CORRECT ways of throwing a proper hook punch based on the style and the environment it is being used for.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

punisher73 said:


> You do realize that even in "boxing" different trainers teach the basic punches a little bit different right?  For example, some teach the jab as a vertical punch meant to slide through the opponent's guard, others will teach it with the twist to try and tear skin with your gloves.  Others don't care.  You realize that there are also different VERSIONS of the basic jab, like the "left jolt" that Dempsey taught or using the arm only for a "speed jab"?
> 
> When it comes to hook punches, some teach a vertical fist configuration when landing and others a horizontal landing with the palm down.  Then you get into different distances for the hook punch.  Purists will say that the only true "hook punch" has the elbow bent at 90 degrees or tighter and is only used close in (elbow range).  Others will open up the elbow and use it from a distance, what the purists would call a roundhouse "swing". Some boxing trainers say that there is no rear hand hook punch and that it is a swing and the only true hook punch is done with the lead hand.  Then we get into traditional martial arts and a hook punch and you have various methods of throwing it properly as well, look at how Isshin-Ryu throws it in comparision to a kung fu style.
> 
> So, to say that Bas Rutten throws it "wrong" is ignorant of the many CORRECT ways of throwing a proper hook punch based on the style and the environment it is being used for.



Exactly. There are some differences between optimal application of boxing in a boxing match vs a MMA match _however_ the stylistic variation within the ranks of pro boxers is just about as great as the variation between a "typical" boxing style and a "typical" boxing for MMA style. Some approaches to boxing need very little tweaking to work for MMA, others need more.


----------



## JR 137

punisher73 said:


> If you look at the main MMA gyms in the US, then you will usually find the main mix to be BJJ/Wrestling/Muay Thai.  Again, depending on the gym that mix will vary and the base art will vary depending on the head coaches emphasis.  For example, is it a striking emphasis gym that supplements with grappling or vice versa.


Curiosity question...

Why train both BJJ and wrestling?  I understand a wrestler training BJJ (or judo) to add submission and chokes, but why would a BJJer (or judoka) train wrestling?

For the throws?

I've got a lot of wrestling experience.  I'd dabble in BJJ or judo for chokes and submission for more effective (imo) "street defense."  But if I had significant experience in BJJ or judo, I wouldn't be looking for wrestling to gain a street defense edge.

I don't have any experience with BJJ or judo, aside from a few friends who I haven't talked to in a while, so I'm probably missing something.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

JR 137 said:


> Curiosity question...
> 
> Why train both BJJ and wrestling?  I understand a wrestler training BJJ (or judo) to add submission and chokes, but why would a BJJer (or judoka) train wrestling?
> 
> For the throws?
> 
> I've got a lot of wrestling experience.  I'd dabble in BJJ or judo for chokes and submission for more effective (imo) "street defense."  But if I had significant experience in BJJ or judo, I wouldn't be looking for wrestling to gain a street defense edge.
> 
> I don't have any experience with BJJ or judo, aside from a few friends who I haven't talked to in a while, so I'm probably missing something.


Wrestlers typically have better no-gi takedowns, takedown defense, stand ups, scrambles, and mat returns than an equivalently experienced  BJJ practitioner. (They're also usually better conditioned, but that's more of a training culture thing.)

To my mind, Judo, BJJ, Sombo, and wrestling are all just different facets of the same gem. They overlap a lot, but each has areas of specialization that they excel in.


----------



## drop bear

JR 137 said:


> Curiosity question...
> 
> Why train both BJJ and wrestling?  I understand a wrestler training BJJ (or judo) to add submission and chokes, but why would a BJJer (or judoka) train wrestling?
> 
> For the throws?
> 
> I've got a lot of wrestling experience.  I'd dabble in BJJ or judo for chokes and submission for more effective (imo) "street defense."  But if I had significant experience in BJJ or judo, I wouldn't be looking for wrestling to gain a street defense edge.
> 
> I don't have any experience with BJJ or judo, aside from a few friends who I haven't talked to in a while, so I'm probably missing something.



For better situational immersion.


----------



## JR 137

Tony Dismukes said:


> Wrestlers typically have better no-gi takedowns, takedown defense, stand ups, scrambles, and mat returns than an equivalently experienced  BJJ practitioner. (They're also usually better conditioned, but that's more of a training culture thing.)
> 
> To my mind, Judo, BJJ, Sombo, and wrestling are all just different facets of the same gem. They overlap a lot, but each has areas of specialization that they excel in.


Thanks, Tony.  That makes sense.

I agree that they're "all just different facets of the same gem" with strengths in different areas.  I feel pretty confident in the stuff you mentioned about wrestling.  Avoiding single and double leg takedowns was by far my strongest area, followed by throws.  I haven't been on the mat in about 3 years now and miss it a bit.  Funny thing I always found is it's like riding a bike - once I get back on the mat after a long hiatus, it's like I never left.  Well, except for the conditioning.  That feels like it'll never come back no matter what I do. 

I'd love to learn some basic submissions and chokes, but there's only so much time in the day, and once I started I wouldn't be able to say "that's good enough" and walk away.  I tend to go too deep before I realize it.


----------



## punisher73

JR 137 said:


> Curiosity question...
> 
> Why train both BJJ and wrestling?  I understand a wrestler training BJJ (or judo) to add submission and chokes, but why would a BJJer (or judoka) train wrestling?
> 
> For the throws?
> 
> I've got a lot of wrestling experience.  I'd dabble in BJJ or judo for chokes and submission for more effective (imo) "street defense."  But if I had significant experience in BJJ or judo, I wouldn't be looking for wrestling to gain a street defense edge.
> 
> I don't have any experience with BJJ or judo, aside from a few friends who I haven't talked to in a while, so I'm probably missing something.



Tony pretty much covered it, but in the US most kids are exposed to wrestling through the school system so you have an excellent base already.  It is much easier to add in the submissions of BJJ from this base.  The other factor was wrestlers started to dominate in the UFC with their base and adding the "ground and pound" strategy to it.  They knew how to get position and scramble and then pound out their opponent.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Tony Dismukes said:


> Lots of BJJ guys are wearing them now for no-gi. I'm just not willing to spend the money unless prices come down.


I picked some up as part of a no-gi set at BJJ HQ this past week. The entire set (rash guard, shorts, leggings) was $45. If I add a cape, I'll look like a very low-budget superhero.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

gpseymour said:


> I picked some up as part of a no-gi set at BJJ HQ this past week. The entire set (rash guard, shorts, leggings) was $45. If I add a cape, I'll look like a very low-budget superhero.


Great deal! Usually $45 would cover just one item in that set.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Tony Dismukes said:


> Great deal! Usually $45 would cover just one item in that set.


Yeah, that's why I had to have it. You know, for all that no-gi BJJ training I do.


----------



## drop bear

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, that's why I had to have it. You know, for all that no-gi BJJ training I do.



Yeah. Right.  For the no gi huh?


----------



## Tez3

Did you know you can buy tattoo 'sleeves' now that you can put on to make it look like you have had your arms tattooed? So now you can look hard! All you need to intimidate people in the gym, tattoo sleeve, a  UFC rash guard and lycra tights to show your assets off ( with groin guard in of course).


----------



## Axiom

Had another gym war with the kickboxer. Started well this time and threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could. But things went downhill from here. His dominance was mostly an initiave thing, but I'm trying to get used to his level of sparring intensity.

The jab out didn't work this time, for some reason. It only made it more difficult to transition and actually lost time rather than won, with my jab out. Also exposed the other side of my jaw which he banged with a full swing roundhouse kick. He claimed that he was going sem contanct, simply because full contact leads to warnings, and he took that hypotethical warning (.....):


----------



## Tez3

Axiom said:


> Had another gym war with the kickboxer. Started well this time and threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could. But things went downhill from here. His dominance was mostly an initiave thing, but I'm trying to get used to his level of sparring intensity.
> 
> The jab out didn't work this time, for some reason. It only made it more difficult to transition and actually lost time rather than won, with my jab out. Also exposed the other side of my jaw which he banged with a full swing roundhouse kick. He claimed that he was going sem contanct, simply because full contact leads to warnings, and he took that hypotethical warning (.....):




And? what do you want us to say? You need to train more and say less.


----------



## punisher73

Tez3 said:


> And? what do you want us to say? You need to train more and say less.



Or maybe understand that when people spar they have different goals than to "always win" and that other guy may have been trying some new things due to his experience and the other persons lack of skill.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

Axiom said:


> Had another gym war with the kickboxer. Started well this time and threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could. But things went downhill from here. His dominance was mostly an initiave thing, but I'm trying to get used to his level of sparring intensity.
> 
> The jab out didn't work this time, for some reason. It only made it more difficult to transition and actually lost time rather than won, with my jab out. Also exposed the other side of my jaw which he banged with a full swing roundhouse kick. He claimed that he was going sem contanct, simply because full contact leads to warnings, and he took that hypotethical warning (.....):


Here we see an illustration of my earlier point about over generalizing from limited information. Last time he had trouble with your jab, this time he didn't. This could be for a variety of reasons. Maybe he was holding back last time or working on something specific that didn't function well against your jab or he was having a bad day or maybe you genuinely did a good job and took him out of his game. This time he adapted to what you were doing and showed you that the jab isn't some sort of a magic weakness for kickboxers any more than the roundhouse kicks you were having trouble defending against are any sort of special weakness for TKD practitioners.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Axiom said:


> Had another gym war with the kickboxer. Started well this time and threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could. But things went downhill from here. His dominance was mostly an initiave thing, but I'm trying to get used to his level of sparring intensity.
> 
> The jab out didn't work this time, for some reason. It only made it more difficult to transition and actually lost time rather than won, with my jab out. Also exposed the other side of my jaw which he banged with a full swing roundhouse kick. He claimed that he was going sem contanct, simply because full contact leads to warnings, and he took that hypotethical warning (.....):


On top of what Tony said, I want to point out two statements in here.
"threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could"
"which he banged with a full swing roundhouse kick. He claimed that he was going sem contanct, simply because full contact leads to warnings, and he took that hypotethical warning"

You threw a roundhouse at him as hard as you could, after you guys had agreed on semi contact. Then he threw a hard roundhouse at you in response, and you complain that he went full contact. In any dojo I've been to, that's what is expected; if you amp up the intensity, I will throw the exact shot/equivalent shot at you as a warning, then go back to the contact level we agreed on.


----------



## JR 137

Axiom said:


> Had another gym war with the kickboxer. Started well this time and threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could. But things went downhill from here. His dominance was mostly an initiave thing, but I'm trying to get used to his level of sparring intensity.
> 
> The jab out didn't work this time, for some reason. It only made it more difficult to transition and actually lost time rather than won, with my jab out. Also exposed the other side of my jaw which he banged with a full swing roundhouse kick. He claimed that he was going sem contanct, simply because full contact leads to warnings, and he took that hypotethical warning (.....):


Maybe last time you sparred, he was too far ahead of you that he mentally checked out by the time you started throwing the jab?  Or that he let you because he was doing you a favor by giving you some confidence?  Or maybe this time once you landed a full force kick against him, play time was over?

Nah.  Never mind.


----------



## Axiom

Tony Dismukes said:


> Here we see an illustration of my earlier point about over generalizing from limited information. Last time he had trouble with your jab, this time he didn't. This could be for a variety of reasons. Maybe he was holding back last time or working on something specific that didn't function well against your jab or he was having a bad day or maybe you genuinely did a good job and took him out of his game. This time he adapted to what you were doing and showed you that the jab isn't some sort of a magic weakness for kickboxers any more than the roundhouse kicks you were having trouble defending against are any sort of special weakness for TKD practitioners.



Correct, I was jumping the gun a bit there.


----------



## Axiom

kempodisciple said:


> On top of what Tony said, I want to point out two statements in here.
> "threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could"
> "which he banged with a full swing roundhouse kick. He claimed that he was going sem contanct, simply because full contact leads to warnings, and he took that hypotethical warning"
> 
> You threw a roundhouse at him as hard as you could, after you guys had agreed on semi contact. Then he threw a hard roundhouse at you in response, and you complain that he went full contact..



Yeah, I complain that he went full contact *to the head* with a *kick*. Is that strange, you think?


----------



## Axiom

JR 137 said:


> Or maybe this time once you landed a full force kick against him, play time was over?
> .



He is actually very respectful of me and never plays around. He allowed an opening and I took it. Chalk that one up for TaeKwondo


----------



## drop bear

Axiom said:


> Yeah, I complain that he went full contact *to the head* with a *kick*. Is that strange, you think?



Yeah. That was your fault. And you deserved that response.

I have done it before. Will probably do it again.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Axiom said:


> Yeah, I complain that he went full contact *to the head* with a *kick*. Is that strange, you think?


Yup. You went full contact (with him under the assumption it was semi contact), and got full contact back. Nothing to complain about there.


----------



## Axiom

kempodisciple said:


> Yup. You went full contact (with him under the assumption it was semi contact), and got full contact back. Nothing to complain about there.



I don't know what to say if I you can't see the difference in danger going full contact to the head compared to the stomach.


----------



## drop bear

Axiom said:


> I don't know what to say if I you can't see the difference in danger going full contact to the head compared to the stomach.



Going full contact to the stomach is very dangerous. It could lead to them kicking your head off.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Axiom said:


> I don't know what to say if I you can't see the difference in danger going full contact to the head compared to the stomach.


You're ignoring the other part though, where you intentionally (I'm assuming from your post) went full contact to his stomach, knowing he was only expecting semicontact. Whether he went overboard with his response is irrelevant, when you decided to be an *** doing that you should be prepared for repercussions.


----------



## Axiom

kempodisciple said:


> You're ignoring the other part though, where you intentionally (I'm assuming from your post) went full contact to his stomach, knowing he was only expecting semicontact. Whether he went overboard with his response is irrelevant, when you decided to be an *** doing that you should be prepared for repercussions.



No, it was a mutual give and take. He didn't complain about it, nor did I when kicked my stomach. Having him take a shot at my head with a kick with that force was however not expected, and incredibly unnecessary.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

drop bear said:


> Going full contact to the stomach is very dangerous. It could lead to them kicking your head off.


Ippon.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Axiom said:


> No, it was a mutual give and take. He didn't complain about it, nor did I when kicked my stomach. Having him take a shot at my head with a kick with that force was however not expected, and incredibly unnecessary.


"Started well this time and threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could."
"He claimed that he was going sem contanct"
Those two statements, and what you've stated about your dojo don't coincide with the above quote. Considering I would bet your school is mostly semi-contact, you starting off full force isn't really a give and take. And he may not have complained out loud, but in all the schools I've been to, his response would be the "complaint"/warning, and the other person accepts it and calms down.

Maybe since he's a kickboxer, he has had similar experiences as me, and you have trouble understanding/accepting it since it's not the culture of your club?


----------



## JR 137

Axiom said:


> He is actually very respectful of me and never plays around. He allowed an opening and I took it. Chalk that one up for TaeKwondo


Maybe I wasn't as clear as I intended.  Here's a story of what I meant...

There's a 13/14 year old girl in our dojo who's recently been allowed into the adults class.  She's been allowed to come to the adults class on Saturday mornings for about 2 years now though.

I've never really had to try while sparring with her.  2 weeks ago, she hit me with a solid punch in the chest.  Woke me up, in a good way.  I grinned and said "great punch."  Then she threw a front kick, which I went to block, and turned it over into a roundhouse kick.  She stopped the kick no more than an inch in front my face.  It was perfect.  I laughed and said "now I have to try."

I didn't beat her up.  I wasn't out to beat her at sparring (if there is such a thing); I just couldn't take it easy and go in slow motion to not overwhelm her.  And I had to actually block.

Nothing disrespectful about it on either end.  She's a great kid, and I love it when she's in class.  She's said she like sparring with me the most because I really challenge her, but I don't overdo it.

By "playtime was over," that's what I meant.  He could've been letting you get away with it, then once he felt he was making it too easy, he ramped up the intensity and didn't let you get away with it anymore.  Nothing disrespectful about that at all IMO.


----------



## Axiom

kempodisciple said:


> "Started well this time and threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could."
> "He claimed that he was going sem contanct"?



Do I need to explain to you why full contact to the body is ok but to the head is frowned upon? There are TKD schools in which kicks to the head are prohibited before black belt.


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## Gerry Seymour

Axiom said:


> Do I need to explain to you why full contact to the body is ok but to the head is frowned upon? There are TKD schools in which kicks to the head are prohibited before black belt.


Not everyone agrees with you. That happens in group discussions.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Axiom said:


> Do I need to explain to you why full contact to the body is ok but to the head is frowned upon? There are TKD schools in which kicks to the head are prohibited before black belt.


It's frowned upon to you. To me it's payback. That's the different school culture idea.


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## Flying Crane

Axiom said:


> I don't know what to say if I you can't see the difference in danger going full contact to the head compared to the stomach.


Sounds to me like...you started it.  So quit whining and grow up. Don't escalate in the first place if you are afraid of what he might do in response.

You have a lot to learn about respecting your training partners.


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## MA_Student

Axiom said:


> No, it was a mutual give and take. He didn't complain about it, nor did I when kicked my stomach. Having him take a shot at my head with a kick with that force was however not expected, and incredibly unnecessary.


It's also unnecessary to throw a 100% kick to the body that's just as dangerous if you break his ribs. It's sparring there's absoloutely nothing to be gained by throwing shots at 100% the only thing you get by doing that are injuries


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## Dirty Dog

Axiom said:


> Do I need to explain to you why full contact to the body is ok but to the head is frowned upon? There are TKD schools in which kicks to the head are prohibited before black belt.



I doubt you will find very many people who do full contact sparring period. Hard contact, certainly, but there's pretty much always a little more in reserve. Because it's sparring.
And yes, please explain to me why head contact would be frowned upon. And before you start, you might bear in mind that while I have roughly ten times as much TKD experience as you, I'm willing to bet I have roughly a hundred times more medical training than you. Because 35 years in the ER...
If some schools prohibit kicks to the head, so what? There are schools that only spar no contact. That's a school issue, not a TKD issue.


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## Gerry Seymour

Dirty Dog said:


> I doubt you will find very many people who do full contact sparring period. Hard contact, certainly, but there's pretty much always a little more in reserve. Because it's sparring.
> And yes, please explain to me why head contact would be frowned upon. And before you start, you might bear in mind that while I have roughly ten times as much TKD experience as you, I'm willing to bet I have roughly a hundred times more medical training than you. Because 35 years in the ER...
> If some schools prohibit kicks to the head, so what? There are schools that only spar no contact. That's a school issue, not a TKD issue.


^^ Yep, this is another one of the people I was talking about.


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## ballen0351

I got my butt whooped by a kettlebell today until I put it back down


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## Gerry Seymour

ballen0351 said:


> I got my butt whooped by a kettlebell today until I put it back down


That is my most dependable technique.


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## Finlay

Axiom said:


> Yeah, I complain that he went full contact *to the head* with a *kick*. Is that strange, you think?




I think the point here was you agreed semi contact before you started.

Then you decided to go full contact to the body. BTW why did you feel 1. It was needed 2. You had the right, to go heavy?

Was your opponent meant to understand the shift in rules and try to adjust mid fight?

What were the 'new' rules that you were trying to indicate?

- heavy to the body, light to the head.
- heavy turning kick/round house to the stomach but light everything else.
- I can hit you as hard as I like but you have to go easy.

Either way you were changing/making up rules as you went and expected him to keep up, until he changed the rules to full contact.

This is why rules are set before sparring begins and it is important that they are stuck to. No matter what opinion you hold about what is safe or allowed.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Finlay said:


> I think the point here was you agreed semi contact before you started.
> 
> Then you decided to go full contact to the body. BTW why did you feel 1. It was needed 2. You had the right, to go heavy?
> 
> Was your opponent meant to understand the shift in rules and try to adjust mid fight?
> 
> What were the 'new' rules that you were trying to indicate?
> 
> - heavy to the body, light to the head.
> - heavy turning kick/round house to the stomach but light everything else.
> - I can hit you as hard as I like but you have to go easy.
> 
> Either way you were changing/making up rules as you went and expected him to keep up, until he changed the rules to full contact.
> 
> This is why rules are set before sparring begins and it is important that they are stuck to. No matter what opinion you hold about what is safe or allowed.


To clarify for @Axiom what you meant, was there an agreement that you would not go full contact? From what I understood and from my past comments, I made the assumption that there was an agreement not to go full contact, that you broke by going full contact (which you've stated multiple times), but if there was an agreement to go full contact everywhere but the head (which is a legitimate thing i have seen before) then the response by the kickboxer is out of line. If not I will repeat my previous sentiment that you don't agree with, where you broke the rules and then he broke the rules, but for some reason you ignore you breaking the rules and try to blame him for it.


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## drop bear

I just love the memes on this topic.







It is pretty common.


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## Tez3

kempodisciple said:


> To clarify for @Axiom what you meant



I'm pretty sure he's gone, whether he jumped or was pushed I don't know but if you look at his profile bit it doesn't come up, says 'error'. Usually means he's departed from us.


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## CB Jones

Tez3 said:


> I'm pretty sure he's gone, whether he jumped or was pushed I don't know but if you look at his profile bit it doesn't come up, says 'error'. Usually means he's departed from us.



Well he still has his Fuhrer Drumpf account he could post from.


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## frank raud

Axiom said:


> I don't believe you have. Your just as much of a pretender as your twin brother. Anybody claiming that kickboxing has the same punching mechanics as boxing could not possibly have done either one.


I learned my kickboxing from this man  Jean-Yves Thériault (kickboxer) - Wikipedia and from his trainers. I believe he may have just a bit more experience than a Serbian national Champion, being PKA champion for 15 years. Pretty sure he could handle a jab.


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## MA_Student

frank raud said:


> I learned my kickboxing from this man  Jean-Yves Thériault (kickboxer) - Wikipedia and from his trainers. I believe he may have just a bit more experience than a Serbian national Champion, being PKA champion for 15 years. Pretty sure he could handle a jab.


Course he could this guy was just a troll but he's been suspended now


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## Ivan

Axiom said:


> Anybody claiming that kickboxing has the same punching mechanics as boxing could not possibly have done either one.


This sentence right here represents the chief reason why everyone doubts you.


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## Ivan

Ivan said:


> This sentence right here represents the chief reason why everyone doubts you.


Okay seriously, why am I getting threads recommended to me from 2017 😭 I keep replying without realising that it’s long forgotten.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Ivan said:


> Okay seriously, why am I getting threads recommended to me from 2017 😭 I keep replying without realising that it’s long forgotten.


It looks for threads with words similar to what you've expressed interest in (by either posting or commenting), as far as I can tell it doesn't take date into account.


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## Tony Dismukes

This is why I just browse the forum from the “what’s new” tab.


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