# Choy Li Fut or 7 Star Mantis ?



## IrishMonk (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm looking to start learning a second art soon, but have'nt decided which one yet. One of the reasons I like Wing Chun is because it is a practical self defense system that actually works. *I'm looking for the same in a second art.*
Three of the options close to me are 7 star praying Mantis, Choy Li Fut, and My Jhong Law Horn ( the later of which I have never heard of )
I know that Bruce Lee said that Choy Li Fut was one of the best systems against multiple attackers, and one of the hardest to attack or defend against. But I really don't know much about any of these styles...
Any help or input would be appriciated... thanks !


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## geezer (Aug 12, 2010)

IrishMonk said:


> I'm looking to start learning a second art soon, but have'nt decided which one yet. One of the reasons I like Wing Chun is because it is a practical self defense system that actually works. *I'm looking for the same in a second art...*


 
_Escrima!_ 

No seriously, I'd say pick an art which is simple, direct, effective and complements WC. Most other CMA are complex and, to the degree that they overlap with WC, will cause you problems. So I'd recommend something like a grappling art like BJJ or a pragmatic weapons system like Escrima.

I personally love training _Torres "DTE"_ and _Latosa_ styles of escrima. They have really complemented my WC. I know others (_Kamonguy_ for example) who've had great experiences adding BJJ onto their base of WC. Anyway, good luck and let us know what you end up choosing.


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## IrishMonk (Aug 12, 2010)

Well, I looked around and found a school which teaches a combination of Wing Chun and Escrima. Actually, Emin Boztepe's Wing Tzun, and Latosa Escrima... the EBMAS system as they call it. The Sifu is a student of Emin Bostepe. I have never heard of this substyle ...Wing Tzun...  any feed back on this ?


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## coffeerox (Aug 12, 2010)

Choy Li Fut.  I've read from Duncan Leung that it's one of the hardest styles he's had to fight against, sort of like the anti-WC.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 12, 2010)

nobody can truthfully say this one or that one is better.  It's impossible to objectively measure, and everyone's advice is tainted by their personal preferences.

It depends on yourself, how well does the style "fit" your body type, personality, likes, dislikes, etc., how good is the teacher, and how well do you get along with the teacher.  

Those are the important things.  Look at the quality of the teacher and the quality of the students that he trains, and then look at whether or not the style seems to fit you and you are drawn to it.  If any of these points are lacking, the "best" style will be no good to you.

If you are interested in these systems then check them out and see how you feel.  It's possible you may decide you are best off at the wing chun school.  Or not.


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## cwk (Aug 12, 2010)

The style of wing chun I study actually has elements of CLF and there's even a wing chun/CLF hybrid form. For me the two arts blend well together, the long and the short.
If I was going to study a completely separate art though, I'd go with some BJJ,wrestling,sambo or judo.These will give you skills you won't get from wing chun.


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## chrispillertkd (Aug 13, 2010)

I don't have any experience with Choy Li Fut, but I can say that Praying Mantis is very effective. Make sure have a good sifu, of course. 

Pax,

Chris


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## Nabakatsu (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm a student of ebmas, just about to have a seminar out here, I really like the wing tzun element, The system and structure to our levels is great. I like being able to pick up at any school I left off at, I love how the levels build upon themselves. If your used to another lineage of wing chuns footwork this class may throw you completely off, it's pretty much leung tings system as far as I know I posted a few links in another thread.. By typing in ebmas in youtube a host of stuff shows up


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## yak sao (Aug 13, 2010)

Wing Tzun is Emin's spelling of Wing Tsun that he came up with to keep KK and LT's lawyers off his back. It is, for the most part, what you would learn if you went to any LT school, although Emin has tweeked the Lat sao (making it better imo), and he does his own version of the chi sao sections.

I would tend to look for a FMA school to learn weapons rather than another empty hand style where you may find conflicting principles.


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## geezer (Aug 13, 2010)

IrishMonk said:


> Well, I looked around and found a school which teaches a combination of Wing Chun and Escrima. Actually, Emin Boztepe's Wing Tzun, and Latosa Escrima... the EBMAS system as they call it. The Sifu is a student of Emin Bostepe. I have never heard of this substyle ...Wing Tzun... any feed back on this ?


 
_Nabakatsu_ and _Yak Sau_ have pretty much covered it. EBMAS stands for "Emin Boztepe Martial Arts System". He comes out of the Leung Ting/ Keith Kernspecht line and altered the spelling from _Wing Tsun_ to _Wing Tzun_ to indicate that he is no longer associated with those other individuals. He is one of the top experts on _fighting_ WC in the world. Rene Latosa's _LWS_ or "Latosa Weapons System" escrima is equally practical and combat oriented. Two top notch guys. I will be training with Rene this weekend.


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## Rain (Aug 13, 2010)

My Jhong law Horn is just another varient of mantis. Some would try to call it Crane and it was heavily influenced by Lost track. I would honestly try to avoid this art. I dont feel there is enough about it out there to make a sound judgement. How about picking up grappling to compliment your striking instead of another form of kung fu?


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## Flying Crane (Aug 13, 2010)

Rain said:


> My Jhong law Horn is just another varient of mantis. Some would try to call it Crane


 
I've never heard this claim.



> I would honestly try to avoid this art. I dont feel there is enough about it out there to make a sound judgement.


 
well, if there is a competent teacher teaching it in his neck of the woods, then there IS enough information to him.  Just because there might not be any books published about it, or you might not find much on the internet, doesn't mean there isn't information to "make a judgement" about it.  A good teacher who is skilled and knowledgeable is all that is necessary.


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## coffeerox (Aug 13, 2010)

Rain said:


> My Jhong law Horn is just another varient of mantis. Some would try to call it Crane and it was heavily influenced by Lost track. I would honestly try to avoid this art. I dont feel there is enough about it out there to make a sound judgement. How about picking up grappling to compliment your striking instead of another form of kung fu?



Jackie Chan (supposedly) supplemented his Wing Chun with Judo and Hapkido


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## qwksilver61 (Aug 13, 2010)

I totally agree,fighting right off the bat! EBMAS ROCKS!


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## Nabakatsu (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm pretty sure jackie chain studied bak mei and not wing chun. Although I've heard leung ting helped him with dummy work for rumble in the bronx.. who knows..


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## Rain (Aug 15, 2010)

Flying Crane said:


> I've never heard this claim.
> 
> 
> 
> well, if there is a competent teacher teaching it in his neck of the woods, then there IS enough information to him. Just because there might not be any books published about it, or you might not find much on the internet, doesn't mean there isn't information to "make a judgement" about it. A good teacher who is skilled and knowledgeable is all that is necessary.


 

"Mi-Tsung-Lohan (My jong longhorn) Although lost track Buddha Gaurdian style was influenced by the Lost track style, My Jhong Longhorn is in fact a sythensis of many styles which where taught at the Ching Woo association. Attempts to classify this style place it eithier has a White Crane or Northern praying mantis Derivative. Because the style was popular in Hong kong the White Crane elements became very pronounced. However we consider it to be a branch of Northern mantis due to the heavy influence of Seeking Leg Praying Mantis and the influence of other Mantis systems. this classifaction is somewhat arbitrary though." 

Order of Shaolin Chan. 

They are the true religious group surviving in America from what was once the Shaolin Order residing in the now famous temples in China. Again why chose another form of striking? This system is relatively obscure and I dont know why you would too take a leap of faith and assume its legit. I suppose you should go see seeing has how you yourself must make the judgement. I,m just cautioning you to the dangers of training in something where little is known about it. If you approach it with a critical mind you,ll be fine. But again why not become a better rounded fighter by picking up a grappling system rather than unlearning habits from previous arts to fit this ones philosiphy?


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## Flying Crane (Aug 15, 2010)

Rain said:


> "Mi-Tsung-Lohan (My jong longhorn) Although lost track Buddha Gaurdian style was influenced by the Lost track style, My Jhong Longhorn is in fact a sythensis of many styles which where taught at the Ching Woo association. Attempts to classify this style place it eithier has a White Crane or Northern praying mantis Derivative. Because the style was popular in Hong kong the White Crane elements became very pronounced. However we consider it to be a branch of Northern mantis due to the heavy influence of Seeking Leg Praying Mantis and the influence of other Mantis systems. this classifaction is somewhat arbitrary though."



well, I'm a Tibetan White Crane guy, and I've never heard reference to this.  There are numerous systems that go by the moniker "white crane", and they are completely different.  Different history, lineage, origins, and technique.  Probably the most well known would be Fukienese white crane, which I believe is related to Wing Chun (may actually be the origins of Wing Chun, tho I don't know that for sure).  So what specific white crane method it identifies with, I guess I wouldn't know.  Not Tibetan, I'll wager.



> I,m just cautioning you to the dangers of training in something where little is known about it. If you approach it with a critical mind you,ll be fine. But again why not become a better rounded fighter by picking up a grappling system rather than unlearning habits from previous arts to fit this ones philosiphy?



If there is a legitimate instructor (note, emphasis on "legitimate", by which I imply skillful and knowledgeable), then there is no problem.  I think it's a fallacy to believe you need to be able to find all kinds of outside sources of information about things, in order for them to be legitimate.  If there is an instructor nearby and he is legitimate, that's all that matters, and you can get the necessary info about it from him.  Of course it still may or may not be a good match for him, that's for him to decide.


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