# Biting & Eye gouging are over rated!



## ace (Oct 8, 2002)

Why is it Every time i hear about
Biting & eye gouging it is
From A Traditional Martial Artist???

Who ether can't Grappel Or hates Grappling???

Im not saying there Bad for the steets!!!!

But it sounds like *****
When this is the top defence.

How often do U practise this!
Also if U can bite him / her 
They can bite U.

Eye gouging 
Again sounds good for the streets
But if U can Eye Gouge him / her
They have just as much a chance.

Biting
Ok the big one. I practise when i eat!
How many people have U bit???/
For me there tomany people i don't want to taste.

If i had no choice fine in the steets thats fine
Grappling does work in the streets.
It has it's place.

No it is not for mutipal Opponents
But What art is??????????


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## feintem (Oct 8, 2002)

Sorry but biting and eye gouging are not so over rated if you dont teach options than it is infermation that in lost .Walk a mile in the shoe that has used this sort of weapon you probubly have more strength in you jaw than any where in your body cant speak from experience on that on but eye gouging I can lets just say it took the fight right out of him. 

As for the multiple attacks look into AMERICIAN KENPO that is what we gear for reality. modern situations.






respectfully
-michael-


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## ace (Oct 8, 2002)

What Movie was This??????????????/


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## Kempojujutsu (Oct 8, 2002)

I would respond but it's not worth it.
Bob  :asian:


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## Angus (Oct 8, 2002)

Horrible argument. By the same token, both punching AND kicking are overrated and useless because when I'm in range to do either, so are they. 

I do and love grappling and would definitely encourage biting or eye gouging (or ripping out, whatever I have to do get them off of me) in self-defense. If nothing else, they won't be able to see what else I'm doing when I'm jamming my fingers inside their head. Gross? Yeah, but I don't care, I want to live!

I practice eye gouges and bites. I don't actually bite the person, because everyone can bite a person, but I'll place the eye gouges without force when doing self-defense. Obviously it's not used in sparring situations! I mean, do you want YOUR eyes to get poked? It's dangerous for the person gettting poked, which is why it's effective when you don't care for the safety of the person you're defending yourself against.

Don't take the "It sucks because it comes from a traditional MAist" approach. 

EVERYTHING has it's time and place.


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## cdhall (Oct 8, 2002)

Mr. Speakman told us in a seminar around 1992 that with AIDS and what not going around, he wasn't too interested in Full Contact matches anymore and for the same reason he would hesitate to bite in a real encounter.

I agree with that. Too much possibility you can get a disease.  Maybe it is better to give them your wallet or pin number.  

And I'm glad someone else said it, American Kenpo is designed to defeat multiple opponents and I have heard varying degrees of emphasis placed on this over the years.  But the whole "overskill" thing is designed to let you change targets while in motion whether against one opponent that you are trying to hit multiple times, or against multiple opponents you are trying to hit 2-3 times.
:asian:


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## GouRonin (Oct 8, 2002)

I got attacked with a knife a few weeks ago and the attacker also bit me.

I wasn't impressed.

I used to think that American Kenpo didn't really get too into my fave move from boxing, the headbutt. But really they do. Both rear and front. Still looking for the side headbutt but I sure can insert it in techniques.

I suppose, like anything, headbutts and bites etc have a time and place.


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## rzusy (Oct 8, 2002)

What ever you say defenses like this can never go wrong.  I have been training for over ten years and i would find nothing wrong w/ biting or gouging the eyes.  This is like the people who think you shouldn't fight dirty.  There is no such thing as a dirty fight.  Whem my life is on the line I will try anything.


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## ace (Oct 9, 2002)

It's not bad for self defence.
But if this is all ya got 
Then 10 years is in the :toilclaw:


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## Aegis (Oct 9, 2002)

Eye gouges and bites are a means to an end, not a stand alone technique. If someone punches me and I use an eye gouge on them, they'll be irritated and possibly too sore to carry on. or they might go nuts and fight harder. Ooops.

On the other hand, if I use the eye gouge to throw the opponent into the ground, then kick or punch him hard with the ground removing the chance of him moving with the blow, he's NOT getting back up again!


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## ace (Oct 9, 2002)

I never sais they were not good just 
OVER RATED 
And if U can get there Eye's they
Can Get yours!

My reason for this post!

Is Every time i her someone
Say if a Grappler takes me to
the ground i will just bite him 
& eye gough him. 

Usaly it's a Karate guy with
 a 7th dagree black belt
Or another high ranking Tradisonal Martial Artist.

Fact is a fact if U bit them U only succed in 
Ticking them off.

If u put a figer in there U 
Must hope they never see U again 
Cause they wont for get. 

And if U train for 10,20 plus years 
& this is all U can do then i say it was 
for nothing.

Grappling is not better just different.
& like my Self i have to belive

That they are traing stand up Fighting as Well.


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## rzusy (Oct 9, 2002)

You mades osme good points.  I train in a traditional karte but we realize that not all fights stay standing up that is why we have started to integrate judo and ju-jitsu.  I'm not the best in the world at these types of things so my natural reaction would probably be to bite or gouge just so that I could get to a situation in the fight where i'm more comfortable.


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## ace (Oct 9, 2002)

I agree with that
U are give your sevf aptions.
This is my entire point.
I to train stand up & Wepons.

Submissons are my better techniques.
But i do not limit my self.

:asian:


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 9, 2002)

Biting will only tick them off?  If I were to bite you I would cling to you with my arms keeping your head close while grinding my teeth through your jugular until you were bleeding to death.  Ya that would piss you off alot, dying sucks.

Seriously though, biting to me is a life and death type technique.  If we were going to just grapple I would grapple.

Using the argument that if I can bite he can te too is silly, that goes the same for ALL techniques, but does he know how to do it well and can he position himself properly and inflict tremendous damage with it?

And karate guys you talk to say they will do those techniques because your right, they don't know how to grapple so their techniques are limitted to what they know, doesnt mean it wont work.. it might if hes good or it might not.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ace (Oct 9, 2002)

Opean invataion!


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## feintem (Oct 9, 2002)

"It' s not who's right,It's who's left."

--Mr.Ed Parker--


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## ace (Oct 9, 2002)

I quote Scott Hall!


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## ace (Oct 9, 2002)

The Wrestler!


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 9, 2002)

"Opean invataion!"

We all make spelling mistakes buddy but what on earth was that supposed to say haha?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ace (Oct 10, 2002)

I Guess my Spelling 
BITES!
:waah:


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 10, 2002)

OMG that was a bad pun haha

Grats on purple belt!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ace (Oct 10, 2002)

It was but bad 
But i could not help it.
:cheers:


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## JDenz (Oct 10, 2002)

Bad bad bad lol.

   Made me laugh

   Bites and eye gouges are good.  My views on biting and eye gouging.  
    On the feet forget about it.  Pro Boxers and martial artists that fight for a living have a hard time striking people in the face so an eye gouge in anything but a clinch is very iffie at best besides being in a clinch.  Biting forget about it.
      In the clinch here is where eye gouging would be very effective for control.  It could be a way to get you back in control in the clinch.  Bitting from the clinch would be real iffie I think.
       On the ground.  Bitting might work all right on the ground once but I don't see it ending the fight.  The only way I can see it ending a fight is if you are in a totally dominate position why would you bite someone.


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## jazkiljok (Oct 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *Why is it Every time i hear about
> Biting & eye gouging it is
> ...




it's odd that you hear that from traditionalists-- biting isn't part of the curriculum of the majority of traditional arts i know of - now, should you be wise to use it if put in a place where it's a good immediate response. yes (check out "le femme nikita" and "enter the dragon" where its value is humorously shown) .

if i have a bat in my hand when some body jumps me- don't expect me to put it down to show you how good i'm at either punching, kicking, or wrestling.

that's the street.

but it's a fair criticism, however overstated, that you have of people who make excuses for not having grappling skills.

this is the martial arts and it's been a component for a very long time.

in japan you learned both karate and judo/jiu jitsu.

in china it's  chin na.

in the USA, it's wrestling etc.

if you don't want to learn grappling that's fine but there's no need to criticize it either.

also, all striking arts have an inherent multiple opponent aspect of training. stand up grappling can be useful as well in a situation of more then one attacker- -just don't think "ring"-- multiple "ring" opponents is another story.

historic note: eye gouging was commonly found in early  western 19th century  no holds bar wrestling (the real shoot fighting)-  these guys were so tough,  losing an eye, didn't necessarily mean losing the match.



peace.

:asian:


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## Kempojujutsu (Oct 14, 2002)

Has a tape that deals with biting, as an offensive technique. Have not seen it yet.
Bob:asian:


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## ace (Oct 14, 2002)

Filapino Art of biteing & Evy gouging & pinching
Not woth the price.

He has a lot better tapes.


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## J-kid (Oct 15, 2002)

Funny you should metion this because.  I rember poeple telling me the same thing when we did full contact sparring guess what they usally cant even get close to your eye s because they are dumped on the ground befor they can even say ahh. Royce gracie got alot of this shiit when he came from Brazil claming he could beat anyone with his BJJ .  All those guys who said they would do this lost really fast ,  And learned a lession not to mess with a grappler.


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 15, 2002)

.....but you're not allowed to bite or eye gouge in MMA events...how could they say they would use it when it's against the rules?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ace (Oct 15, 2002)

Did bite Royce in UFC 1
Just before Royce took him down
When Royce did get his back he put him in a choke
& made him pay.

Eye Gougin has never been allowed but 
has been done.

Again Gerard Goredo eye gouged 
Ukinakai in The Japan opean Vale Tudo
Ukinakai droped to the floor & put him in an ankel lock


I've never said these tactic's would not work
I just feel they are over rated,

Also this is what i hear from alot of old School Martial Artist.
Who feel this is the answer to each 
situation.

I train Stand up , Ground Fighting & wepons

I want to have a full arsenal 
I don't belive in this or that is the best style.

To me Cross Training is my path
in doin so.


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## JDenz (Oct 15, 2002)

Yvel eye gouged Frye three times and still got his butt kicked.


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## ace (Oct 15, 2002)

i saw that to.


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## Angus (Oct 15, 2002)

They didn't get their butts kicked because they eye gouged or bit, they got their butts kicked because they weren't as good of a fighter as their opponent. Don't read too much into it.


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## Aegis (Oct 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *.......
> Also this is what i hear from alot of old School Martial Artist.
> ...



Would you mind clarifying on this a bit? I have yet to meet a martial arts sensei who believed that eye gouging and biting were the answer to any stand up technique. They have their place, and that place is usually on the ground as a last resort. An eye hook may be used to set up something like a ko-uchi-gari, but otherwise an eye gouge while standing is far too risky a move to be taught in any surviving system.

Also remember that a lot of these old school systems would have originally been practised in full armour, which is why more emphasis is put on throwing than striking. In armour, an eye gouge would be more likely to lose you the use of your fingers than to cause any harm to the opponent.


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## J-kid (Oct 15, 2002)

People who say they will poke eyes or pull hair proble just are afraid of grapplers.  First off its really hard to do that to someone experenced in grappleing.  And not to mention that wal you are poking them they are breaking your arm or doing somthing worse.


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 15, 2002)

I'll pull your hair, bite your jugular, shove my fingers into your brain, fish hook your mouth, tear off your ears..... you name it I will do it, and I grapple.  To me there's grappling and then there's life and death.  If it's life and death you see an oppurtunity you take it regardless of what it is.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## JDenz (Oct 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Angus _
> 
> *They didn't get their butts kicked because they eye gouged or bit, they got their butts kicked because they weren't as good of a fighter as their opponent. Don't read too much into it. *


   No they were eyegouged and won the fight


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 15, 2002)

A successful eye gouge means you just lost an eyeball.... If it had been a successful eye gouge would they have won the fight?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## Aegis (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Judo-kid _
> 
> *People who say they will poke eyes or pull hair proble just are afraid of grapplers.  First off its really hard to do that to someone experenced in grappleing.  And not to mention that wal you are poking them they are breaking your arm or doing somthing worse. *



I'm not afraid of grapplers. I can mot certainly hold my own in a grappling situation, but almost everything I learned in Judo and a style of Jujitsu into competition fades away when I compare it to the stuff I learn in my new jujitsu class. It all becomes much more effective when you start adding in unconventional groundwork, like eye gouges, fish hooks, mastoid turning..... etc


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## J-kid (Oct 16, 2002)

Not saying that its not a helpful move in a real fight but people.  What i meant was people who dont grapple and say if anyone did grapple vs them.  That they would do that **** and win easy.


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