# Crossside - Armbar



## Andrew Green (May 24, 2006)

I start having Kyle in Crossside




 I wrap my arm around his



Step over his head and extend to finish the lock.


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## arnisador (May 26, 2006)

don't know this technique--can you add a verbal description? I am in this position often because I don't have much luck in the mount (I always grapple bigger people who can use their strength/weight)--an option like this seems useful.


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## Henderson (May 26, 2006)

Once I get to "crosside", which honestly, IMO, looks like an incomplete kesa gatame, I would prefer not to move from that position.

For example...Using Andrew's pics as a reference:

In pic one...Andrew moves his right arm, which is supporting him, to behind Kyles head.  Then make Kyle tip his head forward by trying to touch his forehead to your chest.  Keeping all the slack up, simply rock back toward Kyle's waist, basically squeezing the diaphragm.  (Think about wringing out a washcloth) These two motions together make it next to imposible to breathe.  Tap out usually arrives relatively quickly...quicker when they struggle and run out of air.


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## Andrew Green (May 26, 2006)

Henderson, do you mean something like this: http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28232 ?  

Arnisador - The arm work is very similar to a standing arm bar taught in many traditional arts.  You want to straighten out the arm as best as possible when you wrap it, use the leg over the head to secure him and extend your hips to apply pressure to the arms.


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## Henderson (May 26, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Henderson, do you mean something like this: http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28232 ?


 
Very similar, except without the leg hook.  I wish I had pics of it.


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## Andrew Green (May 26, 2006)

Yeah, I'm missing something, what I got pictured doesn't seem like it would get a tap...


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## arnisador (May 26, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Yeah, I'm missing something, what I got pictured doesn't seem like it would get a tap...


 
I can't quite see where I would get enough pressure on the arm without letting him roll me--but I imagine I'd have to feel it!


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## crushing (May 26, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Yeah, I'm missing something, what I got pictured doesn't seem like it would get a tap...


 
With your right arm guard down, he should just tap you in the face!  hehe.  Just kidding, I understand it's a demonstration.

Sometimes these things don't look as bad as they feel.


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## Rebiu (May 13, 2007)

Bad technique

Has no control.  Easily escaped.  Impossible to apply sufficient pressure is resisted.


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## Kreth (May 13, 2007)

Rebiu said:


> Bad technique
> 
> Has no control.  Easily escaped.  Impossible to apply sufficient pressure is resisted.


Perhaps you could post your version then, instead of replying to every thread in this forum with (paraphrased) "that won't work." :idunno:


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## jks9199 (May 13, 2007)

I gotta agree...

At the very least, he's gotta support it with some sort of explanation of his qualifications.  But, even then, he really could stand to support his argument with more than a "that sucks!"


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## Rebiu (May 13, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> I gotta agree...
> 
> At the very least, he's gotta support it with some sort of explanation of his qualifications.  But, even then, he really could stand to support his argument with more than a "that sucks!"



I suppose you have a point.
I have been trained by 
Rigan Machado
Richard Bustillo
Pat Militech
Mick Doyle
Kawini Mau Mau

The better know fighters I have trained with are
Jeremy Horn
Ricco Rodriguez
Fabiano Iha
Jens Pulver
Matt Hughes
Tony Messenger
Eric Paulsen
Joe Riggs
Story Gotti
many more I am not remembering


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## Rebiu (May 13, 2007)

Kreth said:


> Perhaps you could post your version then, instead of replying to every thread in this forum with (paraphrased) "that won't work." :idunno:



There is no version of this armbar setup that works.  As you have seen in other threads if I can offer the a workable version I do.  You do not have to agree with me, if you're smart you will really test this technique with the intent of finding its weaknesses before you accept it.  You will find it does not really work.


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## Tez3 (May 14, 2007)

arnisador said:


> don't know this technique--can you add a verbal description? I am in this position often because I don't have much luck in the mount (I always grapple bigger people who can use their strength/weight)--an option like this seems useful.


 
In MMA mount is only really useful under pro rules as you can ground and pound, we tend not to like it very much for am and semi pro where you can't strike to the head. I'm in the same boat as you, I only grapple people bigger than me ( and only males to boot!) so whatever I do in mount doesn't work too well, I like side control though.


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## Ybot (May 20, 2007)

This is one of my favorite techniques.  I getting grappling both gi and no-gi.  I like to attack it in conjunction with the inverse armbar on the oppisit side.  If Andrew could trap his opponents left wrist on his right shoulder by his neck he can finish the inverse armbar too by grabbing the elbow and pulling in.  Both techniques rely on having good sense of balance from the motified scarfhold position that he attacks from.



Rebiu said:


> There is no version of this armbar setup that works. As you have seen in other threads if I can offer the a workable version I do. You do not have to agree with me, if you're smart you will really test this technique with the intent of finding its weaknesses before you accept it. You will find it does not really work.


I work this all the time.  Works for me, you must be doing something wrong.


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 20, 2007)

This is a nice tricky set up for a smooth motion armbar.  If you are herky jerky in your motion then this may be difficult but if you are smooth and use your upper body as weight on their chest then you've got a good chance of success.  Even though everything can be countered if the other guy is already ahead of you, however if he is behind.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (May 21, 2007)

Rebiu said:


> I suppose you have a point.
> I have been trained by
> Rigan Machado
> Richard Bustillo
> ...


 
Oh lord, yet another name dropper.  The list of who you "trained with" DOES NOT indicate knowledge or skill level.  Your commentary has been lacking, your listing of possible counters ridiculous (as every move has a counter), and some of the stuff you have listed as "suggestions" are just plain....nevermind I'm killing brain cells here.  I just hope that you're better today than that "steller" MMA career you had going almost a decade ago...assuming you are Jaymon Hotz as posted in another thread.  So far I'm not impressed with the "knowledge" you've been presenting.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (May 21, 2007)

Ybot said:


> This is one of my favorite techniques. I getting grappling both gi and no-gi. I like to attack it in conjunction with the inverse armbar on the oppisit side. If Andrew could trap his opponents left wrist on his right shoulder by his neck he can finish the inverse armbar too by grabbing the elbow and pulling in. Both techniques rely on having good sense of balance from the motified scarfhold position that he attacks from. I work this all the time. Works for me, you must be doing something wrong.


 
Same here.  Done this armbar too many times...oh wait a minute....it doesn't work LOL.


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## Rebiu (May 27, 2007)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:


> Oh lord, yet another name dropper.  The list of who you "trained with" DOES NOT indicate knowledge or skill level.  Your commentary has been lacking, your listing of possible counters ridiculous (as every move has a counter), and some of the stuff you have listed as "suggestions" are just plain....nevermind I'm killing brain cells here.  I just hope that you're better today than that "steller" MMA career you had going almost a decade ago...assuming you are Jaymon Hotz as posted in another thread.  So far I'm not impressed with the "knowledge" you've been presenting.



In understand you frustration.  I suspose your nonexistent career and Kenpo fighting style give you more clout and knowledge than I.  I suspect you post could be constued as a personal attack, rude, uncalled and uncalled for.


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## Tez3 (May 27, 2007)

Rebiu said:


> I suppose you have a point.
> I have been trained by
> Rigan Machado
> Richard Bustillo
> ...


 

Oooh what fun!    Andrew is kind enough to take the time to post up some moves for us to have a look at and it turns into a "who I've trained with" thread! Now these moves may or may not work but getting a fit of the 'condescending twats' isn't very nice!

Rebiu, it would be far more impressive if this list of fighters named _you _as the person they trained with! It would also be impressive if you could play the game and post some viable alternatives instead of a bland 'it don't work'. If your knowledge is superior to ours, show us some good moves in good faith.

I can play the name game too, I train with Ian 'The Machine' Freeman and Leigh Remedious (who has a very good instructional DVD out) and Micheal Bisping started fighting on our shows. Yeah and my daughter knows the Dubai Royal Family so there.......:uhyeah:


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## Lisa (May 27, 2007)

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:
*
Ladies and Gentlemen:

MT is a forum for "Friendly Discussion" of the Martial Arts.  Please refrain from any comments that could be construed as a personal attack or sniping of another member.  The subject at hand is a crosside - Armbar, not who can make a nastier comment.

That being said:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.  Please feel free to use the ignore feature to ignore the comments of those you disagree with.  It can be found in each members profile.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

Lisa Deneka
MT Assist. Admin.


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## Rebiu (May 27, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Oooh what fun!    Andrew is kind enough to take the time to post up some moves for us to have a look at and it turns into a "who I've trained with" thread! Now these moves may or may not work but getting a fit of the 'condescending twats' isn't very nice!


Tut tut  personal attacks not allowed.  I was asked for this information BTW.



Tez3 said:


> Rebiu, it would be far more impressive if this list of fighters named _you _as the person they trained with! It would also be impressive if you could play the game and post some viable alternatives instead of a bland 'it don't work'. If your knowledge is superior to ours, show us some good moves in good faith.


I am not trying to impress anyone.  I have posted alternatives on this thread.  I never said my knowledge was superior to anyones.  I simple commented on the thread topic, unlike you.  Your thread has nothing to do with the topic.



Tez3 said:


> I can play the name game too, I train with Ian 'The Machine' Freeman and Leigh Remedious (who has a very good instructional DVD out) and Micheal Bisping started fighting on our shows. Yeah and my daughter knows the Dubai Royal Family so there.......:uhyeah:


Sure buddy,  Ian Freeman and Leigh remedious, very impressive.  Lets get back to technique now.


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## Nobody (May 27, 2007)

Here is what i think you need to get your hip driving into the person on the ground so when you step across you have him rotated over onto his side so none of his weapons can attack you.  Than as he reaches for that foot you can easily transition to get your hooks in full mount or you can finish the arm bar with torso rotation.

That won't work why?  Because you are on the ground with your butt an to stable an not able to control him.  Rotate him to his side(left in picture).

That is a viable technique i have seen Bj Penn use that very set of movements.  It may not look exactly but it does turnout the same way. Right arm control, with knees off the ground step over the head while pressing the other person into the mat.  

Tell me, have you seen this or am i misinterpreting the technique?

Keep practicing what i have seen so far is you keep leaving out the forward pressure into you opponent.  Looks nice but to easily evaded by the guy on ground just shrimping hips away than kneeing you as you tried to lean an follow him.  This is just my personal opinion.  I hope it help an not cause you any hard feeling. I do believe it takes guts to put out questions like these an camera an knowledge of how to post pic's.

Just because some people on here are not trying to help does not mean that is not a viable technique you just need some changes.  Very slight change.

Good luck an nice to see someone is trying to develop there practice an knowledge on a thread.  I hope what i posted helped you.


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## Tez3 (May 28, 2007)

Rebiu said:


> Tut tut  personal attacks not allowed. I was asked for this information BTW.
> 
> I am not trying to impress anyone. I have posted alternatives on this thread. I never said my knowledge was superior to anyones. I simple commented on the thread topic, unlike you. Your thread has nothing to do with the topic.
> 
> Sure buddy, Ian Freeman and Leigh remedious, very impressive. Lets get back to technique now.


 

Hey, it's impressive when you're a middle aged woman ROFL! :uhyeah: :uhyeah:


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## Steve (Dec 7, 2011)

A little thread necro, I know, but the set up posted in the OP will work, but I don't know about the finish.  Leaning back with a compromised base will likely get the top person reversed, and as other have said it's unlikely he will have the range of motion to put sufficient pressure on the elbow to force a tap.

Were it me, I'd do one of two things from here.  Either use the arm as a set up for a head/arm choke on the far side prior to swinging my leg over (in other words, using the trapped arm as a feint).  Or to finish the arm bar, drive in to turn the bottom guy on his side facing slightly away, keep pressure on his shoulder to stay tight and drop back for a traditional armbar.  You can also finish that without dropping back by driving him up to his side and going "knee on face" which is a bit of a dick maneuver but guaranteed to generate a reaction.


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