# Running out of the ring and bum/oddball hits



## Lynne (Aug 1, 2008)

Here are some concerns I think the experienced TSD/TKD practioners can answer.  I don't know the answers but I have some guesses.

During class sparring, I try to chase down my opponent.  Often, they run out of the ring to avoid being hit.  I find that sooo aggravating.  But maybe it's ok to do that?  I haven't heard the instructors say not to do that.  I will not run out of the ring.  I try to turn my back to my opponent in order to avoid being hit.  However, if it's fine to run out of the ring, maybe I'll start doing that, too!

I've only been to one tournament, so I can't speak on how the judges view running out of the ring to avoid hits.

About the oddball hits.  We all end up kicking someone in the backside because the opponent turns or we mistime a strike.  But last night one of my partners came in brawling.  She was hitting me in the bum and hips and elbows - boom, boom, boom.  None of those strikes are points. I could say I turned and blocked her but I didn't.  She was wild.  I asked her why she was hitting me in the butt over and over, lol.  She's my level, green belt, so she should know that those types of hits don't count for squat.  This part is more of a rant I guess.  But I intend to let people know if they are purposely striking just anywhere, you don't get points.  How would judges view that in a tournament?  I mean if someone comes in brawling, kicking someone's backside over and over, kicking their hips?  Strikes have to be above the belt and no further back than the side of the ribs (kidney punches/kicks).

Edit - I forgot to mention that I got so tired of the person running out of the ring that I chased them down outside of the ring.  I suspect that wouldn't fly in a tournament.  The instructors never said anything.


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## Tez3 (Aug 1, 2008)

I have to say I know nothing of TKD or TSD sparring ( even though I do TSD I spar MMA) but I can see how really annoying being hit in the backside and hips is! Firstly, frankly I can take hits to the backside all day as it's fairly well padded lol so it's a waste of time aiming shots there lol! I saw a kick to the hip once where it didn't hurt the hip owner but broke the toes of the kicker, hips are hard bones. Hitting elbows hurts too so all these are pretty pointless striking points even when it's not point scoring sparring.
I would say though that whatever style you are sparring in you shouldn't turn your back to your opponent to avoid hits, it's a dangerous habit to get into. 
Running out of the ring I think is penalised in many competitions from Judo to karate, in others like MMA you'd be penalised for pacifivity. Seems a bit of a cowards way out tbh, maybe thats just me?
Lynne, I wish I'd seen you chase them though, go girl!!


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## Lynne (Aug 1, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> I have to say I know nothing of TKD or TSD sparring ( even though I do TSD I spar MMA) but I can see how really annoying being hit in the backside and hips is! Firstly, frankly I can take hits to the backside all day as it's fairly well padded lol so it's a waste of time aiming shots there lol! I saw a kick to the hip once where it didn't hurt the hip owner but broke the toes of the kicker, hips are hard bones. Hitting elbows hurts too so all these are pretty pointless striking points even when it's not point scoring sparring.
> I would say though that whatever style you are sparring in you shouldn't turn your back to your opponent to avoid hits, it's a dangerous habit to get into.
> Running out of the ring I think is penalised in many competitions from Judo to karate, in others like MMA you'd be penalised for pacifivity. Seems a bit of a cowards way out tbh, maybe thats just me?
> Lynne, I wish I'd seen you chase them though, go girl!!


 Thanks, Tez, for the response.  I haven't sparred enough to know what to do when my opponent is right on top of me and I can't move out of the way.  I can face them and let them get a point or turn - not quite sure what to do there just yet.  The only other option was to run out of the ring in that case so I stayed put and turned so they couldn't score or hopefully wouldn't.  I was determined to stay in the ring!

I was going nuts last night because my opponent ran out of the ring every stinking time I got close to her.  I think she was running in the first place because she's not used to being run down inside the ring.  What's funny, is she is the one who started brawling and kicking me in the butt and hips.  Once I came after her, she ran.  She's also exactly half my age, lol.  When I was chasing her outside the ring, I'm sure the instructors thought it was a hoot.  I chased her until I got a hit.  Then, she ran back into the ring.  And it was TIME, match over.


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## Tez3 (Aug 1, 2008)

I'd take it as a backhanded compliment that she runs when she see you lol! I'm sure people will post up for you as to what to do when they come at you in TSD style, in MMA we have more options, in MT you can clinch to stop the punches and kicks though yo are vulnerable to knees. In karate if I was matched with a taller person I always came in close but in TSD/TKD where kicking is the thing I'm a bit lost. I also can't kick above waist anymore so MT type kicking perfect for me. 
The ones that annoy me in any style and there's always someone who thinks this is how to spar, are the ones who go round and round you in a circle!


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## Kacey (Aug 1, 2008)

I can't speak for TSD rules - but according to the tournament rules we use for TKD (slightly different in each organization, so take this for what it is, my experience as a referee), in tournament competition, leaving the ring incurs a penalty.  It can either be a warning or a minus point - usually it's a warning or 2 first, but if it continues to happen, especially if the center referee determines the fighter to be deliberately avoiding the fight (as opposed to being driven backwards and not seeing the line) then it can escalate to a minus point.  The same thing is true for hitting illegal targets like the back or below the belt - it's usually a warning first, that can escalate to minus points, unless there's another infraction associated with it, like excessive contact, or kicking the knees, in which case the more serious infraction will be addressed.


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## jks9199 (Aug 1, 2008)

Don't turn your back on your opponent...

I proved this the hard way in the kickboxing ring, and got TKOed by a shot to the back of my head...

With regard to weird hits... they happen.  If you're dealing with someone who's just flailing, they'll happen more.  Remember -- sparring for points is a game; in the real application, you need to hit targets that have effect.  That's why you discipline your strikes to hit targets in point sparring; to practice striking vital targets under pressure.

At your level... I'd say that folks that run out of the ring just can't figure a better way to handle an aggressive attack.  Let 'em learn; keep pressing 'em!


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## Yossarian (Aug 2, 2008)

Like Kacey said it depends on the organisiations rules. In my org the fight would be restarted if someone is chased out the ring, if they are leaving the ring on purpose they will be warned and then loose a point if they keep doing it. Make sure you dont just move backwards and forwards while sparring, circle round when your opponent comes at you with a flurry and youll be less likelly to leave the ring. You can also be warned and penalised for turning your back to your opponent(and brawling) ive seen points allowed when the back of the head has been hit when someone turned on purpose. The rules are generally a bit more relaxed for lower belts, they would most likely just get warnings.


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## Lynne (Aug 3, 2008)

I'll be sure to not turn my back when I can't get out of the way.

And I'll keep chasing 'em down


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## YoungMan (Aug 4, 2008)

According to WTF rules, you can be penalized for running out of the ring or turning your back. Both of these are considered avoiding the fight.
As far as contacting elbows and butt area, part of it may be due to poor technique. Again, you may also be penalized for consistantly contacting non-point areas.
I don't recommend hitting the elbows as it hurts. Trust me, I know.


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