# Ninjutsu



## Bob Hubbard (Aug 12, 2001)

From the rec.martialarts FAQ

(Contributor: Joachim Hoss - jh@k.maus.de, Adam James McColl - 
amccoll@direct.ca)

Intro: 

Lit. Translation: "Nin" Perseverance/Endurance "jutsu" Techniques
(of). Surrounded by much controversy, today's "ninjutsu" is derived
from the traditional fighting arts associated with the Iga/Koga region
of Japan. These arts include both "bujutsu" ryuha (martial technique
systems) and "ninjutsu" ryuha, which involve a broad base of training
designed to prepare the practitioner for all possible situations. 

History: 

The history of ninjutsu is clouded by the very nature of the art
itself. There is little documented history, much of what is known was
handed down as part of an oral tradition (much like the native
american indian) and documented by later generations. This has led to
a lot of debate regarding the authenticity of the lineages claimed by
the arts instructors. 

Historical records state that certain individuals/families from the
Iga/Koga (modern Mie/Omi) region were noted for possessing specific
skills and were employed (by samurai) to apply those and other skills.
These records, which were kept by people both within the region and
outside of the region, refer to the individuals/families as "Iga/Koga
no Mono" (Men of Iga/Koga) and "Iga/Koga no Bushi" (Warriors of
Iga/Koga). Due to this regions terrain, it was largely unexplored and
the people living within lived a relatively isolated existence. This
enabled them to develop perspectives which differed from the
"mainstream" society of the time, which was under the direct influence
of the upper ruling classes. When necessary, they successfully used
the superstitions of the masses as a tool/weapon and became feared and
slightly mythologized because of this. 

In the mid/late 1500's their difference in perspective led to conflict
with the upper ruling classes and the eventual invasion/destruction of
the villages and communities within the Iga/Koga region. The term
"ninja" was not in use at this time, but was later introduced in the
dramatic literature of the Tokugawa period (1605-1867). During this
period, ancestral fears became contempt and the stereotypical image
("clans of assassins and mercenaries who used stealth, assassination,
disguises, and other tricks to do their work") was formed which, to
this day, is still very much the majority opinion. 

Over 70 different "ninjutsu ryu" have been catalogued/identified,
however, the majority of them have died out. Most were developed
around a series of specific skills and techniques and when the skills
of a particular ryu were no longer in demand, the ryu would (usually)
fade from existence. The three remaining ninjutsu ryu (Togakure ryu,
Gyokushin ryu, and Kumogakure ryu) are encompassed in Dr. Masaaki
Hatsumi's Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu system.  These ryu, along with six
other "bujutsu ryu" (Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu, Takagi Yoshin Ryu, Shinden
Fudo Ryu, Gikan Ryu and Kukishinden Ryu), are taught as a collective
body of knowledge (see Sub-Styles for other info). 

During the "Ninja-boom" of the 80's, instructors of "Ninjutsu" were
popping out of the woodwork - it was fashionable to wear black. Now
that the boom is over there are not as many people trying cash in on
the popularity of this art. However, as with all martial arts, it
would be wise to be very careful about people claiming to be "masters
personally taught by the Grandmaster in Japan". 

How do you verify the authenticity of an instructor? In the case of a
Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu instructor there a few points which one can
use. 

First: all recognized "instructors" of the Bujinkan Dojo will, in
addition to their Dan grade (black belt), have either a Shidoshi-ho
(assistant teacher - first to fourth Dan) or Shidoshi (teacher - fifth
to ninth Dan) certificate/ licence from Dr Hatsumi. Only people with
these certificates are considered to be qualified to teach his system
(a Dan grade alone DOES NOT make one a teacher). 

Second: in addition to these certificates/licences, all recognized
"instructors" of the Bujinkan Dojo will possess a valid Bujinkan Hombu
Dojo Shidoshi-kai (Bujinkan Headquarters Dojo Teachers Association)
for the current year. These cards are issued each year from Dr Hatsumi
to those recognized as "instructors". 

These points will help you if you are looking at training with someone
from the Bujinkan Dojo. Beyond that, it's a case of "buyer beware". 

Description: 

Terms like "soft/hard", "internal/external", linear/circular" have
been used to describe ninjutsu by many people. Depending upon the
perspective of the person, it could appear to be any one, all or even
none of the above. It is important to remember that the term
"ninjutsu" does not refer to a specific style, but more to a group of
arts, each with a different point of view expressed by the different
ryu. The physical dynamics from one ryu to another varies - one ryu
may focus on redirection and avoidance while another may charge in and
overwhelm. 

To provide some kind of brief description, ninjutsu includes the study
of both unarmed and armed combative techniques, strategy, philosophy,
and history. In many Dojos the area of study is quite comprehensive.
The idea being to become adept at many things, rather than
specializing in only one. 

The main principles in combat are posture, distance, rythm and flow. 
The practitioner responds to attacks in such a way that they place
themselves in an advantageous position from which an effective
response can be employed. They are taught to use the entire body for
every movement/technique, to provide the most power and leverage. They
will use the openings created by the opponents movement to implement
techniques, often causing the opponent to "run in/on to" body weapons.

Training: 

As was noted above, the areas of study in ninjutsu are diverse.
However, the new student is not taught everything at once. 

Training progresses through skills in Taihenjutsu (Body changing
skills), which include falling, rolling, leaping, posture, and
avoidance; Dakentaijutsu (Striking weapons body techniques) using the
entire body as a striking tool/ weapon - how to apply and how to
receive; and Jutaijutsu (Supple body techniques) locks, throws,
chokes, holds - how to apply and how to escape. 

In the early stages, weapons training is usually limited to practicing
how to avoid attacks - overcoming any fear of the object and
understanding the dynamics of its use from the perspective of
"defending against" (while unarmed). In the mid and later stages, once
a grounding in Taijutsu body dynamics is in place, practitioners begin
studying from the perspective of "defending with" the various
tools/weapons. 

In the early stages of training, kata are provided as examples of
"what can be done here" and "how to move the body to achieve this
result". However, as the practitioner progresses they are encouraged
to explore the openings which naturally appear in peoples movements
and apply spontaneous techniques based upon the principles contained
within the kata. This free flowing style is one of the most important
aspects of ninjutsu training. Adaptability is one of the main lessons
of all of these ryu. 

Due to the combative nature of the techniques studied, there are no
tournaments or competitions in Ninjutsu. As tournament fighting has
set rules which compel the competitor to study the techniques allowed
within that framework, this limits not only the kinds of techniques
that they study, but also the way in which they will apply those
techniques. The way that you train is the way that you fight. Ninjutsu
requires that its practitioners be open to any situation and to be
able to adapt their technique to ensure survival. 

Sub-Styles: 

There are a number of people claiming to teach "ninjutsu". 

Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi has been the recpient of numerous cultural awards
in recognition of his extra-ordinary knowledge of Japanese martial
culture. He is considered by many to be the only source for authentic
"ninjutsu". However, as was noted above, the teachings of the three
ninjutsu ryu which are part of his Bujinkan system, are not taught
individually. Rather, they are taught as part of the collective body
of knowledge which forms the foundation of his Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu
system. 

Shoto Tanemura, formerly of the Bujinkan Dojo, formed his own
organization (Genbukan Dojo) and claimed to be the Grandmaster
of/teaching both Iga and Koga Ryu Ninjutsu. He has since formed a
number of other organizations and is becoming more widely known for
his "Samurai Jujutsu" tapes (Panther Productions). 

The list of names of people claiming to teach "Koga Ryu Nijutsu" is
quite long. The last person to be recognized as part of the Koga Ryu
lineage in Japan was Seiko Fujita. His knowledge of "ninjutsu" died
with him - he left no successor.


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## arnisador (Feb 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *How do you verify the authenticity of an instructor?*



Statistically speaking, you could just assume the instructor was not authentic and you'd be doing pretty well. I know that there are legitimate ninjitsu (ninjutsu, if you prefer) instructors out there but they are as rare as used car salesmen amongst all the ninja wannabes. It's better now than in the 80s I know but even still I'd be highly suspicious of anyone claiming to teach ninjitsu--Trust But Verify, as they say!


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## Jay Bell (Feb 2, 2002)

It's actually easier then that.  If the person is not studying with the Bujinkan, Genbukan or Jinenkan, they are not studying traditional Ninjutsu, period.

There are some people that are former X-Kans teaching their own spin...

The most over-run neo ninja group tends to be "Koga ryu"...which died in 1969 when Fujita Soke and his 4 deshi were killed in a car wreck.  The densho for Koga ryu are in a museum.  Unfortunately a lot of nut-jobs say that they were the long lost student of Fujita sensei...yet never seem to have any proof to back up the claims.

Like arnisador stated...anyone claiming to teach "Ninjutsu" I would be weary of.


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## arnisador (Feb 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jay Bell _
> *There are some people that are former X-Kans teaching their own spin...*



Would you say that what these people are teaching is authentic ninjutsu? Rule out the clearly fraudulent, but what would you call someone who teaches the older systems with their own modern interpretation? Newer karate systems are clearly still karate, for instance.



> *
> Like arnisador stated...anyone claiming to teach "Ninjutsu" I would be weary of. *



_Weary_ indeed! A Freudian typo no doubt.


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## Jay Bell (Feb 2, 2002)

Well...there's been a lot of discussion about that as of late.  "Updating methods" and whatnot....no...it's not traditional in my opinion.

If someone, for instance, takes the striking in Gyokko ryu and makes it "modern"....well....to me it means that they don't have the knowledge and depth of understanding why things are done the way they are.

We have an enormous amount of people in the western world that try and conform budo to what they'd like it to be, instead of the other way around.

It's easier though eh?  And screw that whole bit of being a student for the rest of your life.  Better to rule in hell then serve in heaven


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 2, 2002)

I'd prefer to learn authentic, rather than "modernized.  If it takes a lifetime of study to master, so be it.  The personal and spiritual growth is a process, not a destination.  

Its very hard for the novice to seperate the fluff from the facts though.


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## Cthulhu (Feb 2, 2002)

I think another problem is the inaccurate portrayal of ninjutsu that has been going on in the mass media for the past few decades.  This gives adolescents a false perception of the art.  It is then very easy for the unscrupulous person to dupe these misinformed individuals into paying them money for poor training.

I've seen a Web site where the person put their 'credentials' up for all to see.  However, this individual failed to notice that by doing so, they openly admitted to never spending more than two years with any one organization.  Since I'm pretty sure the ranks probably wouldn't carry over from group to group, it's a pretty good bet this person never even reached shodan in any of the organizations, let alone a rank high enough to start their own system of 'ninjutsu'.

I agree with Jay Bell.  If a person is not active in any of the three organizations he listed: Bujinkan, Genbukan or Jinenkan (which I'd like to learn more about, by the way), then they are not teaching authentic ninjutsu. 

Cthulhu


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## arnisador (Feb 25, 2002)

Is anyone familiar with the White Dragon Ninjitsu of Frank Jones? I understand from him that he studied the art in Japan under a (then) 72 year old ninjitsu master.


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## Jay Bell (Mar 9, 2002)

Unfortunately the site isn't up anymore.  But due to the romanji error in the spelling of Ninjutsu, I'd cast it into the "better off without" pile


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## John Bridges (Apr 6, 2002)

Sadly bad teachers and schools in this art are a dime a dozen.  I'm my home town we have "master's" *chuckle* of every art you could think of...yet none of them have ever left this town of 50.000 people in southern Az.  Students flock to them thinking that they're really learning somthing great and traditional, and loosing enormous amounts of money in the process, but on the flip side of this is the feeling that a student deserves his instructor.  I'm not trying to be harsh but it seems like most people who meet these kind of instructors want to believe their claims and fight that inner voice that screams out that somthing is wrong with this situation.  Always trust your gut, if it dosen't seem like a good environment it's probally not the place for you.....then check credentials


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## Red Sky Black Sea (Apr 27, 2006)

whats your take on Rick tew's Martial Science... ?


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Apr 27, 2006)

Check the closed American Ninja forum, and Horror Stories.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=111
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=45

Some threads on him:
Questions on Rick Tew
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19028

Rick Tew's fighting experience?
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19505

Question for Rick Tew Part Du
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19191

Questions for Rick Tew Part 3
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22104


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## Jonathan Randall (Apr 27, 2006)

Red Sky Black Sea said:
			
		

> whats your take on Rick tew's Martial Science... ?


 
After IKCA Kenpo, it is the "deadest horse" in the martial art's Internet forum world. I'd read through the threads Mr. Blackadder posted seriously, and in depth, before starting a new "Who is Rick Tew" type thread. If you have any further questions after reading those threads, _then _ask. Just my unofficial two cents.


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## Shaun (Jul 22, 2006)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Would you say that what these people are teaching is authentic ninjutsu? Rule out the clearly fraudulent, but what would you call someone who teaches the older systems with their own modern interpretation? Newer karate systems are clearly still karate, for instance.
> 
> 
> 
> In order to modify or edit the art they would/should  have complete understanding of that art. That is an extremely heavy boast from anyone who studies traditional arts. Just my opinion.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 23, 2006)

Shaun said:
			
		

> In order to modify or edit the art they would/should  have complete understanding of that art. That is an extremely heavy boast from anyone who studies traditional arts. Just my opinion.


Thats crazy talk.  You are saying that I cant decide to teach, but edit out everything I havn't been taught, or dont understand, because i WOULD have a complete understanding of the art before i removed it?  That doenst even begin to make sense... it talks in circles.


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## Shaun (Jul 23, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Thats crazy talk. You are saying that I cant decide to teach, but edit out everything I havn't been taught, or dont understand, because i WOULD have a complete understanding of the art before i removed it? That doenst even begin to make sense... it talks in circles.


 

What I'm saying is that when someone decides to merge systems or create a system based on a traditional art, they should have a complete understanding of that art. When teaching an art the teacher learns too.  But I feel in the traditional arts that even if techniques are "out-dated" or "unrealistic" they are there for a reason and do teach something. Teaching an art without mastery is one thing, taking techniques X,Y, and Z out to make "such and such Do" is another. Occassionally great martial artists are able to do this but it is rare. Just my opinion.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 23, 2006)

Shaun said:
			
		

> What I'm saying is that when someone decides to merge systems or create a system based on a traditional art, they should have a complete understanding of that art. When teaching an art the teacher learns too.  But I feel in the traditional arts that even if techniques are "out-dated" or "unrealistic" they are there for a reason and do teach something. Teaching an art without mastery is one thing, taking techniques X,Y, and Z out to make "such and such Do" is another. Occassionally great martial artists are able to do this but it is rare. Just my opinion.



Im sorry, I missed the "Should have", and only saw the "would have".  My apology.


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## jubei42 (Feb 1, 2007)

l would like to know if any one out there could give me pointers on the trowing technique of ninja trowng spikes?

Domo


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## Cryozombie (Feb 1, 2007)

jubei42 said:


> l would like to know if any one out there could give me pointers on the trowing technique of ninja trowng spikes?
> 
> Domo



Didnt you make a post about this already?


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## jubei42 (Feb 1, 2007)

yes i did.


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## Mecha (Feb 5, 2007)

so, does this mean that all Koga Ryu Ninjutsu teachers are moot?


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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2007)

Mecha said:


> so, does this mean that all Koga Ryu Ninjutsu teachers are moot?


Pretty much.

At this point, it's my understanding that there are no historically verifiable ninjutsu ryu known to exist outside of Hatsumi's Bujinkan and related schools.

It's possible that there's a system that's been kept in the family and passed down very, very quietly -- but I'd be skeptical of anyone making a claim like that, unless they can provide a lot of support for their claim.  Too often, it's linked with claims like "my secret teacher forbid me to give his name" or "the samurai destroyed all the records..."  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, and anybody claiming to have a previously undocumented ninjutsu ryu is making a pretty extraordinary claim.


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## Mecha (Feb 5, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> At this point, it's my understanding that there are no historically verifiable ninjutsu ryu known to exist outside of Hatsumi's Bujinkan and related schools.
> 
> It's possible that there's a system that's been kept in the family and passed down very, very quietly -- but I'd be skeptical of anyone making a claim like that, unless they can provide a lot of support for their claim.  Too often, it's linked with claims like "my secret teacher forbid me to give his name" or "the samurai destroyed all the records..."  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, and anybody claiming to have a previously undocumented ninjutsu ryu is making a pretty extraordinary claim.



ive looked in my sensai's office, he has alot of tournament things, as well as an offical looking document about ninjutsu certification, its all in japanese with some english, and it looks old.  there have also been a long line of koga ryu ninjutsu teachers at my dojo, 3 of which were japanese, i dont know if that adds to the verification or not.  he is a 2nd degree blackbelt in ninjutsu, and has mastered 8 weapons. (has the red bar to proove it)

ill try to get a picture of the certification, or ask him about it.

i really hope he is legit 


(he is also a nidan in shotokan karate,  Shodan in Musu*Shinden Ryu Iaido and a Red belt in Daito Ryu Aikido)


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## Don Roley (Feb 5, 2007)

Mecha said:


> ive looked in my sensai's office, he has alot of tournament things, as well as an offical looking document about ninjutsu certification, its all in japanese with some english, and it looks old.  there have also been a long line of koga ryu ninjutsu teachers at my dojo, 3 of which were japanese, i dont know if that adds to the verification or not.  he is a 2nd degree blackbelt in ninjutsu, and has mastered 8 weapons. (has the red bar to proove it)
> 
> ill try to get a picture of the certification, or ask him about it.
> 
> ...



Well, maybe you should start a thread about your teacher and have us comment on it. But if you look at the following thread you can see that I have been looking for another ninjutsu school- but have been pretty much disapointed.

We have had a lot of people try to convince us that they studied ninjutsu here. Not one has proven to be telling the truth. There have been some like Bruce Calkins that said that their teacher showed them proof (in Calkins case- pictures of his teacher training with Hatsumi) but then it turned out that they could not even prove their teacher existed or that they were ever a student of him.

But a lot of people have been fooled by frauds and are quite willing to give their names. Sometimes this ends in flame wars as they refuse to admit they were fooled. But sometimes we get lucky and they come to realize the truth. I do not know how your case will work out. But if you start a thread about your teacher, maybe we can look into the matter.


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## Mecha (Feb 5, 2007)

http://www.lakewoodma.com/


thats his website, i also made a thread about it.

(yeah, it says ninjitsu in one place, but i think that was the web developers fault)


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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2007)

Mecha said:


> ive looked in my sensai's office, he has alot of tournament things, as well as an offical looking document about ninjutsu certification, its all in japanese with some english, and it looks old.  there have also been a long line of koga ryu ninjutsu teachers at my dojo, 3 of which were japanese, i dont know if that adds to the verification or not.  he is a 2nd degree blackbelt in ninjutsu, and has mastered 8 weapons. (has the red bar to proove it)
> 
> ill try to get a picture of the certification, or ask him about it.
> 
> ...



I'm not saying your teacher isn't legitimately teaching what he was taught by someone...  But there's just no documented current & valid source of instruction in Koga ryu ninjutsu.

Aside from that... Tournament trophies don't really prove much.  I can buy as many as I want.  Neither do "official looking documents" if you can't read what they really say.

Ask your teacher about the ninjutsu lineage.  If there isn't a relatively recent or direct link to Japan...  There's probably a problem.

Like I said -- your teacher may not be at fault.  If I teach you _la savate _(just to really get into left field for the example!) mixed with a little bit of material extracted from US Army manuals on camoflauge and tell you it's ninjutsu, it's not your fault when you tell someone else that you've learned ninjutsu.  As far as you know -- you have.  And something similar may have happened with your teacher.


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## Zida'sukara (Feb 14, 2007)

This is making it very hard for me, as I explained in my introduction, I am looking for a school again in the Netherlands. My former teacher was in my eyes a very good teacher. He did and does not like to make commercials about his school and does not have a website. Even on the big Bujinkan sites you can hardly find his school only by big searching.

A lot of people that trained under him a few times said that they did not like the training very much because his training was boring. My teacher said that he did not wanted to train people who would loose their interest only because they dont get taught Movie-like with a lot of weapons. I did not find the lessons boring at all and his very quiet way of doing is actually proving that he is at least not out to get cash and he is looking at it very seriously.

In all these years that I have been away, I contacted him a few times after a few years to tell him how things were going, that I did not forget about Ninjutsu and that I will come back after I have closed some parts in my live. I simpely love the man, he has a warm character and you can feel his wisdom only by looking at him. I think I will get a big shock when I would find out that he is not a real teacher. (my feeling are telling me that this is not the case)

Of course I rather go to my old teacher but it is simpely to far driving for a weekly training. 

So, I have to decide between two other schools which are both located in the same city. Wouldnt it be very strange and offending when I ask the new teacher if he can show me his teacher license the first day we meet?


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## saru1968 (Feb 14, 2007)

Abafangool said:


> Wouldnt it be very strange and offending when I ask the new teacher if he can show me his teacher license the first day we meet?


 

Simple answer, no.


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## SageGhost83 (Feb 21, 2007)

I PM'd Mr. Hubbard about this one. Does "authentic" ninjutsu even exist anymore? I seriously doubt it due to the nature of old ninjutsu and its original practitioners to begin with. Everybody has their take or angle on it, and I personally think that we are practicing modern reinterpretations of ninjutsu, not "authentic" ninjutsu. "Authentic" ninjutsu has been lost to antiquity. No living person has been verified by the japanese martial authorities to be ninja or to be connected to the actual lineage/tradition. Hatsumi's claims have even been questioned as noone has been able to verify them, so for all that we know, he could be blowing smoke up our collective wazoo. From what I have seen of the various systems, they are all nice and they look fun to practice. So do what you love and don't worry about it, I guess. Maybe we will start new traditions that are "authentic" in their own right. The past isn't the be all end all, we can start something in our own time that is just as special.


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## Don Roley (Feb 22, 2007)

SageGhost83 said:


> I PM'd Mr. Hubbard about this one. Does "authentic" ninjutsu even exist anymore? I seriously doubt it due to the nature of old ninjutsu and its original practitioners to begin with. Everybody has their take or angle on it, and I personally think that we are practicing modern reinterpretations of ninjutsu, not "authentic" ninjutsu. "Authentic" ninjutsu has been lost to antiquity. No living person has been verified by the japanese martial authorities to be ninja or to be connected to the actual lineage/tradition. Hatsumi's claims have even been questioned as noone has been able to verify them, so for all that we know, he could be blowing smoke up our collective wazoo. From what I have seen of the various systems, they are all nice and they look fun to practice. So do what you love and don't worry about it, I guess. Maybe we will start new traditions that are "authentic" in their own right. The past isn't the be all end all, we can start something in our own time that is just as special.



Dude,
Do you know for a fact about what you are saying?

And the  idea of starting a new tradition seems a bit of a contridiction. And it sounds like the excuses some rather large loosers like the Nindo ryu try to use to justify not studying as much as they can before jumping to ninja master status.


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## Teppan (Feb 22, 2007)

SageGhost83 said:


> I PM'd Mr. Hubbard about this one. Does "authentic" ninjutsu even exist anymore? I seriously doubt it due to the nature of old ninjutsu and its original practitioners to begin with. Everybody has their take or angle on it, and I personally think that we are practicing modern reinterpretations of ninjutsu, not "authentic" ninjutsu. "Authentic" ninjutsu has been lost to antiquity. No living person has been verified by the japanese martial authorities to be ninja or to be connected to the actual lineage/tradition. Hatsumi's claims have even been questioned as noone has been able to verify them, so for all that we know, he could be blowing smoke up our collective wazoo. From what I have seen of the various systems, they are all nice and they look fun to practice. So do what you love and don't worry about it, I guess. Maybe we will start new traditions that are "authentic" in their own right. The past isn't the be all end all, we can start something in our own time that is just as special.


 


Well the U.S. army for example in the 1500's  did'nt look like the army of today. Does that means the army exists no more? That means there's no authentic army? Of course students today are not learning how to make gunpowder or poisons or grow their own food. And it goes to all arts. With the pasage of time everything changes but it doesn't mean that we need to start a new tradition. The principles always stay the same. In those days ninjutsu was a way of life and to survive; nothing special about that. I think that Hatsumi is as authentic as you can get. Also the word that was use to identify the ninja of old was shinobi. Hanzo Hatori was train in Togakure ryu ninjutsu. There is documented history dating before the 1100's about the beginings of the togakure ryu wich is one of the nine ryu's that hatsumi became a grandmaster. Actually the togakure ryu and the koga ryu were said to be very similar. I don't think that the ichimonji-no-kamae of today is a modern reinterpretation of the ichimonji-no-kamae performed by a japanese man of the 1400's. I just imagine it now; a remote controled shuriken, light sabers, predator invicibility, shuko that can throw fire balls and tabis that alow us to jump 50 feet in to the air. That would be special.:jediduel:


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## Teppan (Feb 27, 2007)

:deadhorse   No worries mate it happens to us all. Train well ,Take care...


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