# correct me if I am wrong



## Manny (Dec 6, 2010)

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. As long as I know karate was created in Okinawa but it's name was not karate, Giching Funakoshi was an okinawan sesei who sporticed and make karate available to the masses when he located in Japan (Tokio?) and began teaching in the universities there.

Giching Funakoshi was in some way influenced by Dr. Jigoro Kano to create Karate Do?

Persons like Mas Oyama and Gen Choi (The father of TKD) where pupils of Funakoshi, however there is no record I know about Gen.Choi been a directa student from sensei Funakoshi, some sourses say Gen. Choi got a second dan black belt under Funakoshi and became a chief instructor but I am not su sure.

Manny


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## Manny (Dec 8, 2010)

Ups!! no coments? well thank you anyway.

Manny


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## stone_dragone (Dec 8, 2010)

Manny said:


> karate was created in Okinawa but it's name was not karate



First part is correct, the second part is right if you are referring to the "Empty Hand" definition/kanji for karate.

,





Manny said:


> Gichin Funakoshi was an okinawan sensei who sporticed and make karate available to the masses when he located in Japan (Tokio?) and began teaching in the universities there.



He didn't so much "sportize" karate, although that came as a natural consequence of being spread to the masses



Manny said:


> Gichin Funakoshi was in some way influenced by Dr. Jigoro Kano to create Karate Do?



He adopted the uniform and belt structure created by Kano for his students.



Manny said:


> Persons like Mas Oyama and Gen Choi (The father of TKD) where pupils of Funakoshi, however there is no record I know about Gen.Choi been a directa student from sensei Funakoshi, some sourses say Gen. Choi got a second dan black belt under Funakoshi and became a chief instructor but I am not su sure.



I have heard much of this, but cannot verify any of it.  I'm not a TKD guy and I don't have anything more than anecdotal evidence either way.

I hope this helped.


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## chrispillertkd (Dec 8, 2010)

Manny said:


> Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. As long as I know karate was created in Okinawa but it's name was not karate, Giching Funakoshi was an okinawan sesei who sporticed and make karate available to the masses when he located in Japan (Tokio?) and began teaching in the universities there.


 
"Karate" originally was written so that it referred to the Chinese roots of the art. The characters for "China" or the T'ang Dynasty were combined with the character "te" meaning hand. I _think_ this originated with Itosu Anko. Before that it was known simply as "te" (hand), from what I have heard. The first time "karate" was written with the first character referring to "empty" was by Hanashiro Chomo in 1905. This method of writing "karate" (or "empty hand") gained in popularity after 1932 when Japan invaded China. 



> Giching Funakoshi was in some way influenced by Dr. Jigoro Kano to create Karate Do?


 
Besides adopting the belt system and uniform as was already mentioned I'm not sure. I've heard that Kano actually incorporated some strikes from Shotokan into the Kodokan kata but perhaps someone more knowledgable in this area could confirm this. 



> Persons like Mas Oyama and Gen Choi (The father of TKD) where pupils of Funakoshi, however there is no record I know about Gen.Choi been a directa student from sensei Funakoshi,


 
Gen. Choi's primary karate instructor was a fellow Korean living in Japan (his name escapes me at the moment, I'm afraid). He did, however, have the opportunity to train with Funakoshi a few times according to an interview I read with him several years ago in _Black Belt_ magazine. It seemed to me as if he was referring to some seminar-like training and there is a picture of a young Gen. Choi at the Shotokan that I have seen (IIRC, it was in the interview he gave to Dr. He-Young Kimm that was published in TKD Times in 2000). 



> some sourses say Gen. Choi got a second dan black belt under Funakoshi and became a chief instructor but I am not su sure.


 
Yes, Gen. Choi apparently earned a 2nd dan in karate while studying in Japan. Some people have called this into question since there is no paper trail saying he did. Personally, I don't find that a surprise given the widespread destruction that Allied bombing runs did to cities such as Tokyo during WW II. What was there left to salvage?

Pax,

Chris


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## puunui (Dec 9, 2010)

Manny said:


> Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. As long as I know karate was created in Okinawa but it's name was not karate, Giching Funakoshi was an okinawan sesei who sporticed and make karate available to the masses when he located in Japan (Tokio?) and began teaching in the universities there.



Karate in Okinawa was known under many different names, such as Te, Kempo, etc. "Karate", or more specifically "Karatejutsu" was the japanese pronunciation of the Okinawan term "Toudejutsu", which is pronounced Karatejitsu in Japanese and Tang Soo Sul in Korean. Later, they changed the front and back characters to Karatedo, Kara the character for empty, and do which means road, way or whatever. 




Manny said:


> Giching Funakoshi was in some way influenced by Dr. Jigoro Kano to create Karate Do?



Funakoshi Sensei adopted Judo's uniform and belt ranking system from Judo in order to transform Okinawan Karate into the competition oriented martial arts in Japan at the time, Judo and Kendo. 




Manny said:


> Persons like Mas Oyama and Gen Choi (The father of TKD) where pupils of Funakoshi, however there is no record I know about Gen.Choi been a directa student from sensei Funakoshi, some sourses say Gen. Choi got a second dan black belt under Funakoshi and became a chief instructor but I am not su sure.


 
Oyama Sensei claims to have learned at the Shotokan up to the 2nd Dan rank. Chung Do Kwan founder GM LEE Won Kuk stated that Oyama Sensei would visit Korea after WWII ended and would try to watch classes at the Chung Do Kwan. GM Lee stated that he used to chase Oyama Sensei away, and Oyama Sensei would come back and watch classes through the window. All of the original Chung Do Kwan students from the 1940's era knew Oyama Sensei because of his frequent visits to the Chung Do Kwan. 

General Choi claims 2nd Dan rank in Karate; however, GM LEE Won Kuk and others dispute this and say that General Choi studied karate for less than one year while a student at Chuo University before he flunked out and voluntarily joined the Japanese Army. Back then, if you had any college courses, the Japanese Army would make you an officer, which is the route General Choi took. GM Lee and others who knew him in Korea during the 1940's and beyond state that General Choi had about a green belt level of knowledge when he came back to Korea after WWII, and did not study seriously while in Korea because of his military duties. General Choi became serious about it only after he was forced to resign from the Korean Army and exiled by President PARK Chung Hee to Malaysia as ROK ambassador to that country.


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## bluewaveschool (Dec 9, 2010)

I knew there was a reason I picked Duk Sung Son's book as what I wanted for christmas over Choi's 1965 TDK book.  That and the picture on the front.


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