# Training at home



## Tanizaki (Aug 14, 2007)

Like most people, work and family don't allow me to train at school as much as I would like. I can only make two sessions a week, if I am lucky. What sort of training do folks do at home? I mostly do forms and wall bag. I'm still not ready to invest in a wooden dummy, although I'd love to have one.


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## Drac (Aug 14, 2007)

Tanizaki said:


> Like most people, work and family don't allow me to train at school as much as I would like. I can only make two sessions a week, if I am lucky. What sort of training do folks do at home? I mostly do forms and wall bag. I'm still not ready to invest in a wooden dummy, although I'd love to have one.


 
Sounds good to me...I don't do and never did too much at home..You need the watchful eyes of Sifu, Sensei, Sabum etc..etc.. to insure you don't pick up any bad habits...


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## brocklee (Aug 14, 2007)

Drac said:


> Sounds good to me...I don't do and never did too much at home..You need the watchful eyes of Sifu, Sensei, Sabum etc..etc.. to insure you don't pick up any bad habits...



not true with WC....WC only requires a few hours of sifu training to nit pick minor flaws.  The rest can be practiced alone, at home.  Do forms in front of a mirror, shadow box, hit the bags, use a dummy, square up with the corner of a wall and work your angles and lines or you can do structural exercise by walking around and maintain your center line,, mother line and control your gravity.  SOOOOO much to do alone that its funny.


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## shesulsa (Aug 14, 2007)

I think if you do a search for "home+training" you'll see how many people feel about training anything as home-study.


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## Tanizaki (Aug 14, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> I think if you do a search for "home+training" you'll see how many people feel about training anything as home-study.



I wasn't asking about home study.


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## CheukMo (Aug 15, 2007)

The wall bag is about all I do, plus standing in YJKYM.  If you are pretty far in WC training, I see nothing wrong with buying a dummy as it will correct your angles, etc.


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 15, 2007)

Training alone is the worst form of martial art practice. 

You might get your hits harder, but it is being able to move that is the key to all fighting. Mike Tyson could probably hit through concrete, but if you tied his legs down, (if he didn't practice movement) then an average martial artist would destroy him. 

Forms are okay, but there is only so much it can give you. 

Training under pressure is the best thing you can do for your martial arts skill.
Two sessions a week at your kwoon should be plenty of training. Even a lot of UFC fighters train twice a week


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 15, 2007)

brocklee said:


> not true with WC....WC only requires a few hours of sifu training to nit pick minor flaws. The rest can be practiced alone, at home. Do forms in front of a mirror, shadow box, hit the bags, use a dummy, square up with the corner of a wall and work your angles and lines or you can do structural exercise by walking around and maintain your center line,, mother line and control your gravity. SOOOOO much to do alone that its funny.


 
True. One of the real powers behind Wing Chun is the fact that it is all about personnal development. If you do technique "A" a little diiferntily, but it works just as well, why not just let you do technique "A" that way. Which is why training at home is a good thing.
As for training at home, it depends. What form section/drill are you at? It really depends on how much you know. If your at the only the first drill, what you are doing is probably good enough. If your up to Chi Sao, then a good deal more is in order. So, at what point are you at?


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## brocklee (Aug 15, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> Training alone is the worst form of martial art practice.
> 
> You might get your hits harder, but it is being able to move that is the key to all fighting. Mike Tyson could probably hit through concrete, but if you tied his legs down, (if he didn't practice movement) then an average martial artist would destroy him.
> 
> ...



lol you sure its WC and not WT?  lol  jk kamon its just all of your concepts seem to be the opposite of what I am taught.


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 16, 2007)

brocklee said:


> lol you sure its WC and not WT? lol jk kamon its just all of your concepts seem to be the opposite of what I am taught.


Then you need to go to a wing chun school hahahaha (kidding)

From what I understand you are fairly new to wing chun, so it might be that we are training very differently. 

Can I just say that WT is not a style, just a federation that derives from WC. People seem to be quoting moves from WT as though it is a martial arts style on its own. I don't quote moves from 'Kamon' - Kamon is WC. 
WT is WC with a different name

My advice would be to log onto the wing chun Fight Club forum and ask the same question. Those guys are seasoned wing chunners and will give you a whole different answer

That isn't to say that this forum isn't good, but it seems that there are only around three very experienced wing chun people actively posting, and they have not seemed to posted anything on here!


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## brocklee (Aug 16, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> Then you need to go to a wing chun school hahahaha (kidding)
> 
> From what I understand you are fairly new to wing chun, so it might be that we are training very differently.
> 
> ...



12 years off and on IS kinda new  lol  I didnt know there were such forums...thank you


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 16, 2007)

http://wingchunfightclub.org/

Have a look....


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## DaveyBoy (Aug 17, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> http://wingchunfightclub.org/
> 
> Have a look....


 
Thanks for that. Looks interesting and I'll definitely have a good look through it when I get some time.

When you said that training at home is the worst form of martial practice, can I assume that you don't find it beneficial? Personally I find it extremely beneficial but that might well be due to the fact that I'm significantly less experienced in Wing Chun than you are.

I see my training at home as practicing and refining, under no pressure, what I'd ideally like to be doing when being under pressure in class during chi sau etc. Then I go and pressure test my Wing Chun, see where I'm going wrong, go home & practice and so on. I guess that after a good number of years training you don't need to refine things as much so training at home becomes less beneficial....but I don't expect to be at that stage for a long while yet.

I agree that moving is key, but only if you move correctly. I frequently get reminded of this in chi sau as I tend to get hit when I move incorrectly!

To answer the original question, my training at home is predominantly SNT. I'll also practice some turning & trying to move while keeping structure although these tend to be secondary to SNT. I've recently been fortunate enough to acquire a wooden dummy so also play around on that to correct my angles etc when the crappy London weather is good enough!


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## DaveyBoy (Aug 17, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> That isn't to say that this forum isn't good, but it seems that there are only around three very experienced wing chun people actively posting, and they have not seemed to posted anything on here!


 
Yep, it's a great shame. I browsed this forum for a while before posting and there were a number of members that used to post on here, and others that still do although not as often, that clearly are dedicated and, I expect, very skilled Wing Chunners. Their posts contained some absolute gems and I, for one, am disappointed that they no longer seem to post here as I highly respected their opinions and gained a lot from their posts. 

It was also nice that any conflicting views they had were discussed it in a mature and respectful manner using intelligent arguments to put forward their view of Wing Chun. They could also agree to disagree. Sadly this no longer seems to be the precedent except in a few rare cases.

There are still some great posts on here but they all seem to be coming from the same small number of people.


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 17, 2007)

DaveyBoy said:


> Thanks for that. Looks interesting and I'll definitely have a good look through it when I get some time.
> 
> When you said that training at home is the worst form of martial practice, can I assume that you don't find it beneficial? Personally I find it extremely beneficial but that might well be due to the fact that I'm significantly less experienced in Wing Chun than you are.
> 
> ...


Believe me, I am not that experienced in wing chun. I have learnt the motions that wing chun gives, but still need to get sharper etc

Training at home is risky because no-one is there to 'spot you'. What this means is that you will never know if something is wrong with your punches moves etc. I also find that doing drills alone builds up ridgidity (ie because you have no energy coming in you have nothing to flow off and therefore stiffen up)

I think where you are going wrong is how you train. It sounds like your partner gives you a hard time in chi sao and puts you under pressure. In Kamon, we sometimes have an intense chi sao session and other times have a relaxed chi sao session (no attacks). You have to train both in order to build up your skills. Saying that, I do not want to override your current instructor who is probably doing a great job, but it sounds like you are being forced into training at home.

If you are a London boy, feel free to pop down to my class sometime and I'll give you some tips on this subject. You can watch our class and then we'll do some stuff afterwards


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## DaveyBoy (Aug 17, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> Believe me, I am not that experienced in wing chun. I have learnt the motions that wing chun gives, but still need to get sharper etc
> 
> Training at home is risky because no-one is there to 'spot you'. What this means is that you will never know if something is wrong with your punches moves etc. I also find that doing drills alone builds up ridgidity (ie because you have no energy coming in you have nothing to flow off and therefore stiffen up)
> 
> ...


 
Nah, I'm not forced into training at home and definitely didn't want to give that impression. I just enjoy training at home and find it to be good supplement (definitely not a replacement) to training in class! When I do so I try to be as relaxed as possible and hence try to do plenty of SNT. I don't really do drills by myself because, like you said, I think you need the appropriate force from a partner for it to be meaningful. I agree that training by yourself can be risky but find that as I go back to class regularly then any bad habits I begin to teach myself quickly get noticed and put right. Also I'm very fortunate that my Sifu lives close by and often calls to see whether I'd like to pop round his place to do some extra training. Consequently bad habits have even less time to get ingrained before they are picked up. Trouble is that he also fills my head with so many ideas I usually leave with a headache 

With regard to chi sau, again I've given the wrong impression! We actually train exactly how you suggested - sometimes more intense but usually less so. We only get put under real pressure during the intense sessions which serve as a great reality check, but I consider any chi sau I do as a kind of pressure testing for my Wing Chun - just with different degrees of it. I manage to do the things that I try and train by myself (the ideals) better when under less pressure i.e. during less intense chi sau, but ultimately the goal is to be able to do what I can do under no pressure when things get really intense. No doubt that'll be a never ending path but the further I can get along it the better. Hopefully I've made what I was trying to say a bit clearer now!

Thanks very much for your offer - much appreciated. I'm always looking to broaden my Wing Chun horizons & have no doubt I'd learn a lot from meeting up with you. I've only been training Wing Chun about a year & a half so probably won't be able to give much back I'm afraid. Where abouts is your class? I'm near the @rse end of London (East).


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 17, 2007)

DaveyBoy said:


> Nah, I'm not forced into training at home and definitely didn't want to give that impression. I just enjoy training at home and find it to be good supplement (definitely not a replacement) to training in class! When I do so I try to be as relaxed as possible and hence try to do plenty of SNT. I don't really do drills by myself because, like you said, I think you need the appropriate force from a partner for it to be meaningful. I agree that training by yourself can be risky but find that as I go back to class regularly then any bad habits I begin to teach myself quickly get noticed and put right. Also I'm very fortunate that my Sifu lives close by and often calls to see whether I'd like to pop round his place to do some extra training. Consequently bad habits have even less time to get ingrained before they are picked up. Trouble is that he also fills my head with so many ideas I usually leave with a headache
> 
> With regard to chi sau, again I've given the wrong impression! We actually train exactly how you suggested - sometimes more intense but usually less so. We only get put under real pressure during the intense sessions which serve as a great reality check, but I consider any chi sau I do as a kind of pressure testing for my Wing Chun - just with different degrees of it. I manage to do the things that I try and train by myself (the ideals) better when under less pressure i.e. during less intense chi sau, but ultimately the goal is to be able to do what I can do under no pressure when things get really intense. No doubt that'll be a never ending path but the further I can get along it the better. Hopefully I've made what I was trying to say a bit clearer now!
> 
> Thanks very much for your offer - much appreciated. I'm always looking to broaden my Wing Chun horizons & have no doubt I'd learn a lot from meeting up with you. I've only been training Wing Chun about a year & a half so probably won't be able to give much back I'm afraid. Where abouts is your class? I'm near the @rse end of London (East).


My class is in Epsom, Surrey and you can get a train straight from Clapham. Starts at 1pm on a Saturday and all are welcome to come down and watch. We do actually have classes in the East end - Ilford, Beckenham, Stratford etc

Doesn't matter your experience - even if I went with a guy who hadn't done martial arts before I would still learn something. 

Plus as I said I am no wing chun master and there are different types of wing chun out there


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## DaveyBoy (Aug 17, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> My class is in Epsom, Surrey and you can get a train straight from Clapham. Starts at 1pm on a Saturday and all are welcome to come down and watch. We do actually have classes in the East end - Ilford, Beckenham, Stratford etc
> 
> Doesn't matter your experience - even if I went with a guy who hadn't done martial arts before I would still learn something.
> 
> Plus as I said I am no wing chun master and there are different types of wing chun out there




Thanks mate. I'll PM you to try and sort something out.


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## brocklee (Aug 20, 2007)

DaveyBoy said:


> Yep, it's a great shame. I browsed this forum for a while before posting and there were a number of members that used to post on here, and others that still do although not as often, that clearly are dedicated and, I expect, very skilled Wing Chunners. Their posts contained some absolute gems and I, for one, am disappointed that they no longer seem to post here as I highly respected their opinions and gained a lot from their posts.
> 
> It was also nice that any conflicting views they had were discussed it in a mature and respectful manner using intelligent arguments to put forward their view of Wing Chun. They could also agree to disagree. Sadly this no longer seems to be the precedent except in a few rare cases.
> 
> There are still some great posts on here but they all seem to be coming from the same small number of people.



I reviewed those forums also...and joined...can't wait to fight!!! lol  The reason the posts are so good, is because one of their rules.  "If you're gonna talk ****, be prepared to fight!"  lol  I hope I can find someone to fight with in my area.  Chi-sao is awesome and all, but I'd rather apply everything against someone that's trying just as hard as myself.  I noticed when I play with someone else, they don't seem to have the determination as me and I tend to throttle back to their level.  Not challenging.


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 21, 2007)

brocklee said:


> I reviewed those forums also...and joined...can't wait to fight!!! lol The reason the posts are so good, is because one of their rules. "If you're gonna talk ##it, be prepared to fight!" lol I hope I can find someone to fight with in my area. Chi-sao is awesome and all, but I'd rather apply everything against someone that's trying just as hard as myself. I noticed when I play with someone else, they don't seem to have the determination as me and I tend to throttle back to their level. Not challenging.


Brock, what area are you from?


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## brocklee (Aug 21, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> Brock, what area are you from?


 
Phx Arizona


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## CheukMo (Aug 21, 2007)

brocklee said:


> Phx Arizona


 

Augustine Fong school?


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 22, 2007)

My friend Sam trained under Augustine Fong and he is pretty good.

Brock its a shame you live in the US, but any time you are in London, give me a bell.


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## brocklee (Aug 22, 2007)

CheukMo said:


> Augustine Fong school?


 Hes a part of my lineage, yes.  tempewingchun.com  This is my kwoon (sp?).


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## brocklee (Aug 22, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> My friend Sam trained under Augustine Fong and he is pretty good.
> 
> Brock its a shame you live in the US, but any time you are in London, give me a bell.



Is it customary to give bells as gifts in UK?  lol, I understand what you mean.  Sure thing bud.


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## Tordk (Sep 17, 2007)

as far as i´m concerned it is a good thing to train at home. As long you do not train something that your trainer has not taught you yet.. otherwise the training will go very slow, meaning that you will not get any further with your training from lesson to lesson.. I do not think that you will pick up a bad habbit if you go to lesson a couple of times a week, because then your trainer will be able to correct you.. well that is my oppinion..


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## Flying Crane (Sep 17, 2007)

Tordk said:


> as far as i´m concerned it is a good thing to train at home. As long you do not train something that your trainer has not taught you yet.. otherwise the training will go very slow, meaning that you will not get any further with your training from lesson to lesson.. I do not think that you will pick up a bad habbit if you go to lesson a couple of times a week, because then your trainer will be able to correct you.. well that is my oppinion..


 

I agree.


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