# Defang or Decapitate?



## geezer

I posted this same question on FMATalk, but thought it would be interesting to get the response of folks over here too. Over on that forum someone posted a pretty cool videoclip titled _"Defang"_ of a couple of Filipino soldiers going at each other with bare rattan and no protection. Pretty soon one guy got his hand cracked so hard he couldn't continue.

Anyway, when sparring or considering self-defense scenarios, do you favor going for the hand, the head, or both?  Which do you feel is easer to hit? I know my instructor can nail either on me. Sometimes getting both in one shot! But then he is much better than I am. So in short, if your life depended on the outcome, do you try to _defang or decapitate???_


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## Thesemindz

geezer said:


> I posted this same question on FMATalk, but thought it would be interesting to get the response of folks over here too. Over on that forum someone posted a pretty cool videoclip titled _"Defang"_ of a couple of Filipino soldiers going at each other with bare rattan and no protection. Pretty soon one guy got his hand cracked so hard he couldn't continue.
> 
> Anyway, when sparring or considering self-defense scenarios, do you favor going for the hand, the head, or both? Which do you feel is easer to hit? I know my instructor can nail either on me. Sometimes getting both in one shot! But then he is much better than I am. So in short, if your life depended on the outcome, do you try to _defang or decapitate???_


 
Personally, I try to hurt whatever I can get to.

I'd love to knock the guy out with one strike and walk away victorious, but sometimes you have to break down the wall to get to the castle. If I'm fighting a guy with really long limbs and I'm having trouble getting to his body I may start striking out against his arms, or legs, in order to slow him down or draw his defenses in closer to his body. The more ground he surrenders outside his guard, the closer I can get to crushing his skull or attacking his torso.

I don't _plan _to do anything more specific than win. I try to take advantage of whatever opportunities towards achieving that goal which present themselves.


-Rob


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## K831

Decapitate whenever I can, defang when I have too. 

I think it is about available targets and distance. Defanging isn't guaranteed to stop an attacker, so I wouldn't "choose" it over a debilitating move.

My understanding of defanging is that it is largely range related. I don't see it as any different than a leg kick in a kick boxing match; Maybe I am out of range and can't close, but the leg strike is there...so I take it, but I wouldn't "trade" it for a fight ending shot. 

Maybe he has better hands and I need to slow him down before I close the distance... enter the leg kick. 

I think that is the same reasoning behind defanging; perhaps I am tentative to engage as closing the distance with a better knife fighter may get me over-committed and in trouble.. so control distance and defang i.e. take whatever cut I can to slow the better, more aggressive fighter down. Lower percantage move, but lower chance of over committing too.


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## geezer

K831 said:


> Decapitate whenever I can, defang when I have too...



Suddenly I'm sorry I asked this question... since Jeff's started us sparring again. When will you be able to start back with us Jason?  

Anyway, getting back on topic, what I'd _like_ to be able to do is make my blocks work as an _offense_ so I can block, take out the hand, and maybe even get through to the body with one move. You know, when your opponent leads too much with his hand in front of his body and you get a "two-fer"...hand and head in one well placed shot?  Ok, I admit I don't pull it off that often, but Jeff and Maestro Martin do it to me all the time!


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## ap Oweyn

I think it's the nature of blocking, particularly in FMA, to reason that--while you're there--you might as well break something.  In other words, you usually have to get past some form of defense before you can decapitate (or simply hit a primary target).  And if you've got to contend with that obstruction one way or the other, you might as well damage it.

Depending on the level of threat, damaging the hand may be enough to deescalate and go home.  If it's not, it still makes getting to something import that much easier.


Stuart


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## MJS

geezer said:


> I posted this same question on FMATalk, but thought it would be interesting to get the response of folks over here too. Over on that forum someone posted a pretty cool videoclip titled _"Defang"_ of a couple of Filipino soldiers going at each other with bare rattan and no protection. Pretty soon one guy got his hand cracked so hard he couldn't continue.
> 
> Anyway, when sparring or considering self-defense scenarios, do you favor going for the hand, the head, or both? Which do you feel is easer to hit? I know my instructor can nail either on me. Sometimes getting both in one shot! But then he is much better than I am. So in short, if your life depended on the outcome, do you try to _defang or decapitate???_


 
I'd try to target the hand first.  Of course following up with an abanico strike to the head is always an option too.   Of course, if you wanted to be more direct, the other hand could be used to block the incoming stick hand, while you go right for the head.


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## MichaelJB

geezer said:


> ...what I'd _like_ to be able to do is make my blocks work as an _offense_ so I can block, take out the hand, and maybe even get through to the body with one move...



I suggest that you think less about "block" and more about "strike" when you do this to achieve your desired result.  Well, that and work on timing.  Anyway, I go through great pains to not use the word "block" with my students in favor of "defend/defense".  For years I would "block" and ended up only having a block when I blocked.  Now, thinking "strike/hit", even if my strike misses a maiming or lethal target and makes contact with the weapon, it's one hell of a "block".  I've actually CUT rattan sticks with a rattan stick while "blocking" - imagine if that were an opponent's body part...


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## billc

You will know which one you did after you are clear of the self-defense situation.  Before that, I don't think you can tell how the situation is going to resolve itself.


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## K831

geezer said:


> Suddenly I'm sorry I asked this question... since Jeff's started us sparring again. When will you be able to start back with us Jason?



August I am hoping!


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## geezer

MichaelJB said:


> ...think less about "block" and more about "strike" when you do this to achieve your desired result...  For years I would "block" and *ended up only having a block* when I blocked.  Now, thinking "strike/hit", even if my strike misses a maiming or lethal target and makes contact with the weapon, it's one hell of a "block".



I think this really answers the question. If your defense is contained in your strike... you take the offense, and your defense "just happens".  And as you point out, it is stronger and more efficient as a result.

By the same token, if you _effectively_ target your opponent's "center", you will hit the hand/arm... or if the range is shorter, the head/body. So whether you hit the hand or the core takes care of itself. Trouble is, that doing that _"effectively"_ involves all that other stuff like timing (as you mentioned), speed, having an angle (range and position) and so forth. In other words... _"it ain't that easy!"_.



MichaelJB said:


> I've actually CUT rattan sticks with a rattan stick while "blocking" -* imagine* if that were an opponent's body part...



OK, I'm imagining that. Scary, dude!


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## MichaelJB

geezer said:


> In other words... _"it ain't that easy!"_.



lol.  It gets easier over time.  That's why we practice!

I'll show you the pic of the "cut" stick next time I see you.  I did it during a seminar with a no videos allowed policy so only a pic of the stick.  Argh!


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## 5masterserrada

If in real life one thinks about a particular body part he is in danger of loosing. If he thinks about not geeting hurt by targeting a particular body part, he has already lost. If one is so well versed in his movements that he automatically hits the right body part at the right time, he is destined to win. FMA people in particular sometimes believe that if they hit first and meaningfully they have won. Manong Cabales won and then decided to hit, or not hit...after all he has already won. On several ocassions he simply rested the weapon on his opponents neck. This concept of winning first before striking is truly the heart of great martial ability! So winning before the strike pre-empts the whole thought pattern of what to hit first. I have seen it done (winning before hitting) and it is humbling and a thing of beauty to watch. Ron Saturno


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## Dan Anderson

I like the closest target available.  Hit that and continue to work.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## sgtmac_46

geezer said:


> I posted this same question on FMATalk, but thought it would be interesting to get the response of folks over here too. Over on that forum someone posted a pretty cool videoclip titled _"Defang"_ of a couple of Filipino soldiers going at each other with bare rattan and no protection. Pretty soon one guy got his hand cracked so hard he couldn't continue.
> 
> Anyway, when sparring or considering self-defense scenarios, do you favor going for the hand, the head, or both? Which do you feel is easer to hit? I know my instructor can nail either on me. Sometimes getting both in one shot! But then he is much better than I am. So in short, if your life depended on the outcome, do you try to _defang or decapitate???_


 
I guess it would depend on how close you were when you got the shot. 

Personally, I favor the hand, simply because being able to reach HIS head, puts a great deal of my body in his range long before I reach his head, so it requires some type of attacking block to reach his head.

That having been said, there are times that the head is open where it's preferable to go for the head.........so the only answer is really 'Depends on the situation'.

Also, is this the stick that mimics the blade or just a stick?  A stick that mimics the blade makes it trickier, as one can reach the head, cause lethal injury, and still simultaneously sustain lethal injury to yourself.


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## geezer

Thread _Necro Alert.._. I started this thread almost 10 years ago. Also, at that time there were some really awesome contributors here. Now, most have moved on. Too bad. So what more can I add now? 

Well, how about this recently posted YouTube clip on the subject of "disarms" by a guy who was my first and most influential FMA instructor (way back in the 80s). He always kept a pretty low profile, but recently he's put out a new batch of short videos on YouTube. Not about technique so much as _concepts_. No surprise there! Anyway check this out:


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## dvcochran

I have a belt in Kali under Tuhon Bill McGrath. The best and most basic lesson we learned was "attack what is closest first".
They present a hand,  cut at the finger web, they present again, cut the wrist. They present again cut at the next joint and so on. He worked it somewhat backwards to conventional thinking; we learned with the blade first, then sticks, then open hands. More than a few cuts along the way.
Good times.


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## geezer

dvcochran said:


> I have a belt in Kali under Tuhon Bill McGrath. The best and most basic lesson we learned was "attack what is closest first".



I wouldn't consider that "a disarm", although if you score a good shot, it damn well may be! Attacking the closest target (usually the hand or wrist) is just good, common sense. Rene Latosa emphasized that as well, along with "climbing the tree" as you work your way in. 

Interestingly, around the time I started this thread I was regularly training with Jeff LaTorre out in Mesa, AZ. Jeff practices DTE Escrima/MMA with Martin Torres down in Chandler, but many years back got his start back in Rochester (?) New York with Tuhon Bill McGrath. Jeff's younger brother Jack is a Pekiti instructor. So there was a fair amount of Pekiti in what Jeff taught us and I heard a lot of good stuff about Tuhon McGrath.


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## Danny T

Within Pekiti-Tirsia there are different attacking subsets that instruct slightly different strategies and tactics. Within the 5-Attacks and 12-Attacks subsets the Primary target is the hand, secondary the head, tertiary the knees. In the 7-Attacks subset the primary is the head, secondary is the knees and utilizing the attack to the legs for trips, off-balancing or takedowns. Primary target hand, secondary target the elbow, tertiary the head, and quaternary the knees. Within the Contradas the primary is the hand while in the Recontras the primary is the head. Alphabito is about destroying the live hand and Numerato is about destroying the knees or legs.

As to disarms...disarms happen not because of specifically going for a disarm but for having placed the opponent's weapon hand in a position that when attacking the disarm happens. We teach; Never attempt a disarm if the opponent's head is working properly or the hand is working properly. In other words damage the head and/or the hand before attempting a disarm.


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## Dirty Dog

Danny T said:


> As to disarms...disarms happen not because of specifically going for a disarm but for having placed the opponent's weapon hand in a position that when attacking the disarm happens. We teach; Never attempt a disarm if the opponent's head is working properly or the hand is working properly. In other words damage the head and/or the hand before attempting a disarm.



I have not been following this thread, just spot reading, so take this for what it's worth.
I think what you're saying here is probably true for specific weapons, but certainly not all. With some weapons (for example, the rapier) there are absolutely techniques that are intended specifically to disarm. Now, you could describe them as making sure "the hand is working properly" in that they rely on leverage and positioning to work. But they don't actually do any damage whatsoever, and you certainly are specifically going for a disarm. And at least a couple of them could, I believe, be used effectively with escrima sticks.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Dirty Dog said:


> I have not been following this thread, just spot reading, so take this for what it's worth.
> I think what you're saying here is probably true for specific weapons, but certainly not all. With some weapons (for example, the rapier) there are absolutely techniques that are intended specifically to disarm. Now, you could describe them as making sure "the hand is working properly" in that they rely on leverage and positioning to work. But they don't actually do any damage whatsoever, and you certainly are specifically going for a disarm. And at least a couple of them could, I believe, be used effectively with escrima sticks.


I think he was referring specifically to the philosophy of his style of ptk, not necessarily whether or not a disarm can be done with the intent of a disarm/without damaging the other person's hand.


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## Gerry Seymour

geezer said:


> I posted this same question on FMATalk, but thought it would be interesting to get the response of folks over here too. Over on that forum someone posted a pretty cool videoclip titled _"Defang"_ of a couple of Filipino soldiers going at each other with bare rattan and no protection. Pretty soon one guy got his hand cracked so hard he couldn't continue.
> 
> Anyway, when sparring or considering self-defense scenarios, do you favor going for the hand, the head, or both?  Which do you feel is easer to hit? I know my instructor can nail either on me. Sometimes getting both in one shot! But then he is much better than I am. So in short, if your life depended on the outcome, do you try to _defang or decapitate???_


As with most things...it depends. If I'm playing at range, defanging may be more available. As range closes, I'm more likely to go for the head (and use my free arm, or other stick, to defend). I think I tend to get overly focused on their stick, so I'm probably more likely to go for defanging, overall.


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## Danny T

gpseymour said:


> As with most things...it depends. If I'm playing at range, defanging may be more available. As range closes, I'm more likely to go for the head (and use my free arm, or other stick, to defend). I think I tend to get overly focused on their stick, so I'm probably more likely to go for defanging, overall.


Absolutely. Range is of high importance for tactical applications.


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## geezer

gpseymour said:


> As with most things...it depends. If I'm playing at range, defanging may be more available. As range closes, I'm more likely to go for the head (and use my free arm, or other stick, to defend). I think I tend to get overly focused on their stick, so I'm probably more likely to go for defanging, overall.



There's an important distinction that can be made between "defanging" and "disarming". "Defanging" can simply refer to targeting the hand or arm whereas "disarming" often includes some complex and risky techniques to force your opponent to release his weapon.

Hitting the _hand_ can cause an opponent to drop his weapon, or not. Or it can just reduce his dexterity and effectiveness with his weapon. Or it can knock his weapon aside and create an opening. Whatever. ....But very useful.

On the _other hand_ (pardon the pun!) ...most disarming techniques, those intended specifically to remove an opponent's weapon, are risky, and will have a lower percentage of success in a full-on fighting situation. Sometimes they just kinda fall into place, but IMO that's the exception. If you watch a lot of contact stick fighting videos, this seems to the case for most people. When going all out, more people slip and drop their own stick than get disarmed by conscious intent.

So, I mainly train disarms because they are fun, look cool and are an entertaining technical challenge. And there are a couple that do seem to pop up and sorta "fall into place" when playing in the studio. Heres one:


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## Christopher Adamchek

defang


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## Ivan

geezer said:


> I posted this same question on FMATalk, but thought it would be interesting to get the response of folks over here too. Over on that forum someone posted a pretty cool videoclip titled _"Defang"_ of a couple of Filipino soldiers going at each other with bare rattan and no protection. Pretty soon one guy got his hand cracked so hard he couldn't continue.
> 
> Anyway, when sparring or considering self-defense scenarios, do you favor going for the hand, the head, or both?  Which do you feel is easer to hit? I know my instructor can nail either on me. Sometimes getting both in one shot! But then he is much better than I am. So in short, if your life depended on the outcome, do you try to _defang or decapitate???_


The hand is much easier and faster to move than the head. Therefore, it is much easier for you to use your hand to hit their head, than your hand to hit their hand. So in sparring, I always go for the head. This is only for weaponless sparring though. I have never done sparring with weapons, sadly.


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## geezer

Ivan said:


> The hand is much easier and faster to move than the head. Therefore, it is much easier for you to use your hand to hit their head, than your hand to hit their hand....



Ivan, with a weapon, often the same slashing stroke can target both the hand and the head. One stroke can hit both targets.

A weapon with some length, like a 24-30 inch long stick can cover a lot more area, generating a lot more speed and power than a similar movement using the hand alone. So imagine, for example, swinging a stick in a simple, overhand figure-8 pattern with the center-point or "X" in the middle of the figure-8 focused on your opponent's center. That single movement threatens his head and chest and the hands.


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## Kung Fu Wang

In many Chinese weapon such as Miao Diao, double edge sword, staff, ..., it all have technique that attack opponent's weapon holding arm.


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## drop bear

Ivan said:


> The hand is much easier and faster to move than the head. Therefore, it is much easier for you to use your hand to hit their head, than your hand to hit their hand. So in sparring, I always go for the head. This is only for weaponless sparring though. I have never done sparring with weapons, sadly.



Yeah but they are further away and so have to give up position to get in range to strike.


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## geezer

geezer said:


> Ivan, with a weapon, often the same slashing stroke can target both the hand and the head. *One stroke can hit both targets.*



Correction: One stroke has the_ potential_ of striking _either _target. A "two-fer" (hitting both) would be pure luck, at least for me! 

At the very least, if distance and timing is good, you do menace both targets, and that in itself is useful.


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## geezer

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In many Chinese weapon such as Miao Diao, double edge sword, staff, ..., it all have technique that attack opponent's weapon holding arm.


Nice GIF. This attack is equally found in FMA and HEMA. Even if _black_ doesn't "defang" _blue_ or seriously damage _blue's_  hands, he has gained superior position and control of blue's weapon. Look how _black_ is set up for the next move. Perhaps an upward slash to blue's throat ...and "game over!"


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Defang until/unless you have a chance to go in and decapitate.

 (or striking eyes/temple/back of head/neck depending on what's available or the weapon you are using.)


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## Kung Fu Wang

geezer said:


> This attack is equally found in FMA and HEMA.


When I was 11, my brother in law taught me a staff form "劈手竿(Pi Shou Gan) - hand striking staff". The main technique is to slide my staff along my opponent's staff and hit my opponent's hand. Every day I used my staff to "slide" along a small tree trunk.

Some CMA weapon are very civilized. The 1st move of our dagger form is to use the dagger handle to strike on opponent's chest to give him a warning (don't mess with me. I have a dagger).

To cut your opponent's hand, or hit him instead of kill him can be very civilized solution.


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## Tony Dismukes

geezer said:


> So, I mainly train disarms because they are fun, look cool and are an entertaining technical challenge. And there are a couple that do seem to pop up and sorta "fall into place" when playing in the studio. Heres one:



I really like what I've seen of Burton Richardson's material. He seems to have a good handle on how to make techniques functional.


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## JP3

I'm thinking about this question and reading all of your responses above and trying to figure out what it is that "I'd do."  Since I don't train weapons, having made the informed decision about myself & my luck with these kinds of things a long, long time ago that the one time in my life when I'd Really, really need the sword/stick/knife/whatever thing it was... I'd have put it down on the other side of the couch as the bad guy burst into the room (Oops)... I've only got my hands, feet & head and the stuff between them to use.

   So... that being said... As stated above, what comes in range is what I deal with, and I don't try to force things.... if the guy has a weapon, then of course I move away from the weapon, the weapon side, if at all possible which does two things, increases his distance he's got to cover to apply the weapon on me... and gives me more time to deal with it as he's forced to move to counter it. Otherwise, I end up behind him and his weapon is made moot.

As for the tricky disarms, I know a few of them and I agree that they are a bit too ...tricky.  They do fall into place sometimes out of nowhere almost, while training... which I think is a bit misleading as nobody is Really training full-tilt boogie trying to kill you in the school, so I think it's a false positive result.

But... the basic, simple stuff where you're attacking the attacking limb, as long as you don't manage to slice up your own bod dealing with it if there's a blade...that stuff could be considered de-fanging, I think.  That's where I almost always begin... sort of "tearing off the arms and legs to get to the head" sort of concept. If the guy swings/stabs at you and you manage to let him have his arm back with a broken bone in it... that limb, at least, is effectively de-fanged... even a significant enough bruising strike could get you to much the same place.

The above being where I start, operating with whatevver limb it is that they "give me" that I can "get at," I do still find myself frequently behind the guy for a moment... at which point if they were really intending badness on me I'd go for the decapitation option, figuratively speaking, if workable. Drop them backwards on their head, there's quite a few throwing techniques which do that, dropping them back on your knee, blowing out some ribs or even the spine, neck breaks... available if in the right position.  I'd consider those decapitation moves.  Not saying they're easy, or won't get you in legal trouble, just saying they might be there.  And... if they Are there and you Are in a situation where you need that level of force to stop the situation, you go that way and do it.


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## Buka

I don't do much stick work, my wife does. But I do a fairly good amount of work with a knife

I will always defang if the opportunity presents itself. I've found that it almost always does.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Buka said:


> I don't do much stick work, my wife does.


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## Buka

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


>



Laughed my butt off!

I'm not very good with Arnis or Escrima, despite being taught by Remy Presas himself. It was only four days, but it was four days all day long. Wasn't even a seminar, he was working with one of my Instructors and I got a call to "get your butt over here right now."  So I did.

Showed everything he taught us to my wife, who for some reason, just took to it. Within a year, she was way better than I was.

Remy had an assistant, his last name was Hoffman. Even now, a zillion years later, if I ever run into him I am going to take his stick and make him into a popsicle.

I can't defang with a stick or bare handed at all. God, I suck at it. But with a knife I feel I can defang anyone, even if I'm getting smashed in the process.


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## Ivan

drop bear said:


> Yeah but they are further away and so have to give up position to get in range to strike.


Perhaps, but there are little striking techniques that target the hands of an opponent, rmphasis on *striking* not locks, grapples etc. The only striking technique I can think of for targeting an opponent’s hand is striking the top of their hand with your knuckle caps hard enough to fracture some of their tinier bones there.


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## drop bear

Ivan said:


> Perhaps, but there are little striking techniques that target the hands of an opponent, rmphasis on *striking* not locks, grapples etc. The only striking technique I can think of for targeting an opponent’s hand is striking the top of their hand with your knuckle caps hard enough to fracture some of their tinier bones there.



Gunting. But I think that is because the tool used is pretty inefficient. Where a stick or a knife is a lot better at striking limbs and does more damage.


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## Argus

I am not experienced with full speed sparring in FMA yet, and in fact I haven't trained FMA very much, so I speak less from specific experience and more from cumulative intuition/understanding:

I likely don't know what I'd do. It depends on range and timing and reflexes, and whether or not I see/feel the opportunity to disarm, defang, or attack some central target.

Having a Wing Chun background, I am cautious of chasing hands and prefer to threaten the opponent's core in some way, especially if the range is such that both you and your opponent are in range to threaten eachother's head or torso. Chasing the hands or the weapon is a good way to get cut/hit/stabbed. In my short time practicing HEMA, this is something I made good use of against less experienced practitioners, who tend to cut to the sword rather than the target. If you're swinging at my weapon, you're not threatening me in any way, so I just move my weapon out of the way, avoiding/ignoring yours and attacking you at the same time. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is chasing the hand or weapon and do this.

In random weapons sparring, mostly in the context of knife defense, but also a little bit of light stick sparring under pressure (the latter I have done far less of), the disarms that I pull off have mostly been those which just "fell into place." Some of them I went for and succeeded, some of them I just "found", and some of them were accidental. My very first disarm in sparring ever, in fact, was accidental: in one of my Wing Chun classes someone asked about knife defense, and we paired up and practiced knife versus empty hand, where both attacker and defender were free to do anything. Welp, one of my very first instinctive reactions to a stab that came in was inside pak-sao (slapping the inside of the wrist). The shock bent my attacker's wrist and caused the knife to go flying out of his hand. Successful and completely accidental disarm. I didn't even intend to do an inside pak-sao either -- I usually avoid that as it leaves you exposed to your opponent's rear hand. But it was in position to deal with the threat, and it did!

Not just with disarms, but with all techniques in general: I find that the more I "go" for a given technique, the less likely it is to succeed. The techniques that work are those that come out naturally when the situation presents itself, and my approach is to just try to train in such a way that I learn to put two and two together and recognize opportunities that are presented to me. Of course, training more complex techniques such as disarms with increased resistance and/or speed is important too. This sort of practice has to be done carefully though because if the opponent can resist freely and you're limited to just one technique, of course your opponent knows what you're going to do and can easily stop you from doing it. That's what I dislike about most knife defense "debunking" videos you tend to see: of course some technique that you've hardly trained before isn't going to work when your opponent is resisting fully, you're limited to a single technique, and he even knows what you're going to do. You need to be able to respond freely as well, and that means having a tool box of techniques and well trained reflexes, and flowing into whatever is suitable when you do counter resistance or something doesn't work.


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## dvcochran

Argus said:


> I am not experienced with full speed sparring in FMA yet, and in fact I haven't trained FMA very much, so I speak less from specific experience and more from cumulative intuition/understanding:
> 
> I likely don't know what I'd do. It depends on range and timing and reflexes, and whether or not I see/feel the opportunity to disarm, defang, or attack some central target.
> 
> Having a Wing Chun background, I am cautious of chasing hands and prefer to threaten the opponent's core in some way, especially if the range is such that both you and your opponent are in range to threaten eachother's head or torso. Chasing the hands or the weapon is a good way to get cut/hit/stabbed. In my short time practicing HEMA, this is something I made good use of against less experienced practitioners, who tend to cut to the sword rather than the target. If you're swinging at my weapon, you're not threatening me in any way, so I just move my weapon out of the way, avoiding/ignoring yours and attacking you at the same time. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is chasing the hand or weapon and do this.
> 
> In random weapons sparring, mostly in the context of knife defense, but also a little bit of light stick sparring under pressure (the latter I have done far less of), the disarms that I pull off have mostly been those which just "fell into place." Some of them I went for and succeeded, some of them I just "found", and some of them were accidental. My very first disarm in sparring ever, in fact, was accidental: in one of my Wing Chun classes someone asked about knife defense, and we paired up and practiced knife versus empty hand, where both attacker and defender were free to do anything. Welp, one of my very first instinctive reactions to a stab that came in was inside pak-sao (slapping the inside of the wrist). The shock bent my attacker's wrist and caused the knife to go flying out of his hand. Successful and completely accidental disarm. I didn't even intend to do an inside pak-sao either -- I usually avoid that as it leaves you exposed to your opponent's rear hand. But it was in position to deal with the threat, and it did!
> 
> Not just with disarms, but with all techniques in general: I find that the more I "go" for a given technique, the less likely it is to succeed. The techniques that work are those that come out naturally when the situation presents itself, and my approach is to just try to train in such a way that I learn to put two and two together and recognize opportunities that are presented to me. Of course, training more complex techniques such as disarms with increased resistance and/or speed is important too. This sort of practice has to be done carefully though because if the opponent can resist freely and you're limited to just one technique, of course your opponent knows what you're going to do and can easily stop you from doing it. That's what I dislike about most knife defense "debunking" videos you tend to see: of course some technique that you've hardly trained before isn't going to work when your opponent is resisting fully, you're limited to a single technique, and he even knows what you're going to do. You need to be able to respond freely as well, and that means having a tool box of techniques and well trained reflexes, and flowing into whatever is suitable when you do counter resistance or something doesn't work.


In my experience in FMA (Kali) we never trained in 'chasing hands'. It was Always exploiting whatever body part came To us.


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## geezer

dvcochran said:


> In my experience in FMA (Kali) we never trained in 'chasing hands'. It was Always exploiting whatever body part came To us.


This is a good, practical approach. "Closest weapon attacks nearest target". 

One caveat (from a Wing Chun perspective) Target center (center of mass, centerline, ...however you want to interpret it) so if you miss a small target, like a hand, the same movement can continue to hit the larger target behind it. That's what we mean by "chase center, don't chase hands". 

Works with firearms too.


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## angelariz

geezer said:


> I posted this same question on FMATalk, but thought it would be interesting to get the response of folks over here too. Over on that forum someone posted a pretty cool videoclip titled _"Defang"_ of a couple of Filipino soldiers going at each other with bare rattan and no protection. Pretty soon one guy got his hand cracked so hard he couldn't continue.
> 
> Anyway, when sparring or considering self-defense scenarios, do you favor going for the hand, the head, or both?  Which do you feel is easer to hit? I know my instructor can nail either on me. Sometimes getting both in one shot! But then he is much better than I am. So in short, if your life depended on the outcome, do you try to _defang or decapitate???_


Whatever they send to you is a gift.


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