# chisao giggles



## skinters (Aug 6, 2008)

when i chisao with certain people they laugh and giggle a lot .is this down to nervousness? i mean some are grinning and giggling like school kids .i was close to asking one guy whats the joke .

now i dont mind smiling and laughing on occasion, ie when you both have a good exchange, or something else happens ,but i feel some people are uneasy with  the level of contact you get with chisao ,and all the  giggling reflects this ...not sure.

another thing that annoys me is the constant oh sorry everytime someone makes contact ....im constantly reasuring people its ok ....im yet to have a good chisao session with out stopping for a chat,saying sorry for making contact,all this giggling and laughing .....

what gives?


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## mook jong man (Aug 6, 2008)

Start palm striking through their fook sau hard and see if they're still laughing after that, start moving back and forth effecting their balance, force your bong sau thru and give them a tap on the side of the head.

 If that doesn't make them start to concentrate i don't know what will. When they hit you and they apologise tell them its ok i'm not made of glass.

 Do these people realize they are learning self defence and not flower arranging . If everyone in the class is like that and you can't find any one that will train hard it might be wise to find another Wing Chun school to train at because you are not going to get a realistic level of contact in that place.


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 6, 2008)

It sounds like nervousness, especially they're lower ranked and this is fairly new to them. Mook Jong Man gave some excellent advice about getting a little rough with them to try and force concentration.


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## skinters (Aug 6, 2008)

to be honest i dont see it from beginners.

 it does upset my concentration, i dont mind stopping to talk about various ways of improving etc ,but i would rather work up a good sweat and feel i have made some progress instead of feeling sometimes the quality is not there .

i feel aswell that there are those who are good but dont use it enough in giving good help and instruction to beginners,id rather some one tell me why they got through than just a quick exchange wich leaves me guessing .

im thinking its best to start asking for what i expect from who i train with .

such as:

1.dont appologise for making contact.
2.i want a sustained continuos roll

as for this nervousness im seeing even from those who are good i dont want to tell them to stop laughing and come across wrong ,but i have to start finding ways where i get keep the quality of my training high despite what others are doing .


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 6, 2008)

skinters said:


> to be honest i dont see it from beginners.



Huh. That surprises me. 




skinters said:


> it does upset my concentration, i dont mind stopping to talk about various ways of improving etc ,but i would rather work up a good sweat and feel i have made some progress instead of feeling sometimes the quality is not there .
> 
> i feel aswell that there are those who are good but dont use it enough in giving good help and instruction to beginners,id rather some one tell me why they got through than just a quick exchange wich leaves me guessing .
> 
> ...



Yeah, I can imagine it would upset your concentration. Does your Sifu ever comment on this behavior during class? I think you got it right with starting to clearly state what you expect to your training partners. Perhaps a word on the side with your Sifu would help as well.


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## skinters (Aug 6, 2008)

thanks jade.

what i notice by a lot of begginers when it come to nervous giggles and laughing, is by the most part they are concentrating so much on doing things right, that they seem to do it less ,i know not all .

i am talking more with my sifu about the things i mention and at the very least its getting it off my chest knowing someone else either agrees or know its just part of it .


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## mook jong man (Aug 6, 2008)

That is very strange that senior people act like that in your school . When i remember rolling with senior people there would be silence and no emotion in there face the only noise would be me getting smacked around. 

After we finished they would tell me your tan sau was dropping, your fook sau was off center etc that is how i improved . There must be someone there that takes it serious , train with them and stay away from the time wasters.


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## skinters (Aug 6, 2008)

thats the very thing im looking for ,i dont mind being hit ,and when theres an apology everytime it stops me getting into any kind of rhythem (can never spell that haha)....

its seems to be a mixture of those who mess around irrespective of the level they at and those who have a better understanding of the learning process .

as my sifu likes us to practice with everyone to get a better feel of training with different partners ,its not easy to pick and choose who you train with .

i appreciate your wise words

thanks


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 6, 2008)

skinters said:


> as my sifu likes us to practice with everyone to get a better feel of training with different partners ,its not easy to pick and choose who you train with .



And that's a good thing...having to train with various partners. But we all have those we prefer and those we don't. I have preferred training partners at my school too. It always kind of sucks getting paired with someone who hinders your own training. Sometimes even those who try to help too much can hinder you.


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## mook jong man (Aug 6, 2008)

Maybe my instructors were just sadists :whip1: 
What if you got a friend thats a bit of a rugged individual and taught him chi sau , then you can train hard at your place with out all the b.s and you just go to the school to learn the applications , that is if you don't want to find another school to train in.


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## harlan (Aug 6, 2008)

Huh. I was going to say that good energy is contagious, and some folks can get heady on it. I always find that crossing hands with certain folks, especially when experiencing another's good technique, heightens a feeling of well-being and I find myself constantly smiling. There is a definite 'bouancy' (sp?), that borders on giggleness, in some parts of practice. But I don't get that with everyone.

Also, do you have a lot of women in your class?


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## skinters (Aug 6, 2008)

cheers harlan 

ps dont i know you from somewhere? haha


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## brocklee (Aug 6, 2008)

skinters said:


> thats the very thing im looking for ,i dont mind being hit ,and when theres an apology everytime it stops me getting into any kind of rhythem (can never spell that haha)....



It's to my understanding that you want to stay away from rhythm because it commits you to the next set of moves out of habit.  It should appear rhythmic if both practitioners are flowing at the same rate and reacting to each others feeling.  

As for the others giggling and it breaking your concentration....You obviously weren't too focused in the first place.  Do your thing, and when done properly...no one will be able to break your concentration.  

I think lightening up will aid your training.  It will allow you to focus better and concentrate less.  You don't want to get into a fight and have to concentrate.  You want to be able to focus on everything that's going on around you and this is done through relaxation.  Concentrating causes your mind and eyes to pin point exact objects or targets.  When doing this you're not able to view 3 objects at once, you end up seeing 1 object at 3 different times.  By the time you notice the 3rd object, the first one just got ya.


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## JustAVisitor (Aug 6, 2008)

When i was teaching, if the class was too tense, too serious, too aggressive, then i would move from one student to the next and make them smile, sometimes giggle, so they would relax a bit.
If the class was too giggly, then i would put on a stern face and would practice with few students very methodically. This means that i would try one or two techniques repeatdly that would result in a slap or a punch (but the movements will not stop). After few entries, the students would turn irritated and all giggling would stop. 
Mood is contagious.
This said... you should focus on your own practice and not judge your partners'.
Also... what happens around you should not distract you from what you are doing.


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## brocklee (Aug 6, 2008)

JustAVisitor said:


> Also... what happens around you should not distract you from what you are doing.



That's right


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 6, 2008)

I chuckle if I do something really weird. I mean really really weird. But, thats about all.


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## skinters (Aug 6, 2008)

brocklee,justavisitor

you have made me realise not to be so analytical about it and lighten up .i was seeing it from just one point of view ..mine

there is always 2 sides to a coin its good to see the other side.

thanks all .


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## profesormental (Aug 6, 2008)

Greetings.

People are different. Some of my students laugh and/or swear when I maneuver them into disadvantageous positions and hit them!

They do it in amazement, frustration and/or renewed determination to get me!

Chi sao is fun. Sparring is fun. Getting hit hurts, yet it is fun!

That is what makes us have Warrior Spirit.

The harder I get hit, the more fun it is, and if I'm hurt, I get an insane grin that means that the fun is starting!

My students mostly are the same.

Even though Silence is Golden in Wing Chun, Chi sao is really fun, and I think it is ok.

Though, I know it is not everyone's reaction, and I know some that have poker faces all along. That is ok too.

Many times, while I do Chi sao, I talk about what I'm going and how I'm going to accommodate them and hit them... and it is funny that they have no choice but to comply even though they are resisiting all the while!

Chi sao tends to be relaxed and low stress exercise... yet it should also be practiced with high stress level and pressure. There, things change. The intent is more aggresive, forceful and combative.

Again, Yin/Yang. Playing with extremes to find the middle way.

Hope this helps.

Juan M. Mercado


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## Si-Je (Aug 6, 2008)

My husband and I practice and learn WC in a different manner.  Speaking for the giggling bunch, I laugh and smile while practicing mostly because it's fun and I enjoy chi sau.  My hubbie, on the other hand, is more serious and doesn't twitch a face muscle.

Personally, I learn WC better when I'm relaxed and comfortable with someone I'm training with.  Usually, I laugh at silly mistakes, or some of the weird attempts at defending myself when hubbie gets through.  It keeps me from getting so frustrated, takes the pressure off (that I sometimes put on myself) to learn technique properly.
I figure it's a good thing to be able to laugh at onesself.  But, I do try to keep the talking to a minimum, and keep it straight long enough to train seriously.  
Besides, when their's hitting involved, I figure it's best to keep things light hearted and not so serious so people don't get to upset in training.  I guess it depends on what your training for.  

Some of the best stuff I've done in Chi Sau was when I wasn't paying alot of attention to my/our arms and technique while drilling.  It makes it easier for me to feel the opponent if I'm not totally absorbed in thinking about what I'm doing.  Thinking too much will mess up the Chi Sau.  

I used to say things to distract the student's when working with them in Chi Sau.  (Only if they were stiff and concentrating to hard on what they were doing)  90% of the time when I cracked a joke or distracted them they would finally do a new technique right.  Then, they'd stop and say, I did it!  What did I do?!  And we'd continue drilling until it was relaxed muscle memory.  But, I'd save that for people that were having a hard time and getting frustrated trying too hard to accomplish a certian move or moves.  When their ready for improv, then that's when it gets really fun!
Besides, these techniques should be able to flow whether your distracted or not.  But, everyone learns differently and I try to be conciencious with different partners.


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## skinters (Aug 7, 2008)

another great post thankyou very much


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 7, 2008)

Skinters, you have to stop doing chi sao when you are wearing the clown costume. It really doesn't help....

Seriously though, there are some people who train at wing chun as a hobby and mess around. I'm glad to say at Kamon, it is relaxed but people are concentrating. it is incredibly disrespectful to giggle at someone either in a spar, in chi sao or in a drill. I would simply stop and ask what the joke was. If they didn't answer, I would stop training with them and go and do forms or something

As Mook Jong has said the other way is to just smash them hard in the face. That might put a bit of concentration into their chi sao

There is a time for relaxed training and a time for intense training. But giggling is way beyond relaxed


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## brocklee (Aug 7, 2008)

Kamon Guy said:


> Skinters, you have to stop doing chi sao when you are wearing the clown costume. It really doesn't help....
> 
> Seriously though, there are some people who train at wing chun as a hobby and mess around. I'm glad to say at Kamon, it is relaxed but people are concentrating. it is incredibly disrespectful to giggle at someone either in a spar, in chi sao or in a drill. I would simply stop and ask what the joke was. If they didn't answer, I would stop training with them and go and do forms or something
> 
> ...



I believe that sifu should be the only one allowed to hit a student with impact in class.  Anyone else may create an actual fight


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## skinters (Aug 7, 2008)

brocklee said:


> I believe that sifu should be the only one allowed to hit a student with impact in class.  Anyone else may create an actual fight



well when doing chisao with my sifu i would ask him to strike me in the chest as a gauge to how much force is acceptable .

to me it comes down to control chisao is not fighting although obviously accpects of it can be used in a fight situation,and the skill for me is being able to stop your hand millimetres away from your partners face.

accidents can and do happen and are part and parcel of doing chisao . 

if your class allows head gear and mits to be used then yes for that extra realism more contact can be made .

to be honest i dont mind the contact i mean aslong as there is that bit of control ,but can see how things can get out of hand especially if you happen to train with someone you dislike.


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## brocklee (Aug 7, 2008)

skinters said:


> well when doing chisao with my sifu i would ask him to strike me in the chest as a gauge to how much force is acceptable .
> 
> to me it comes down to control chisao is not fighting although obviously accpects of it can be used in a fight situation,and the skill for me is being able to stop your hand millimetres away from your partners face.
> 
> ...



Roll with mits on?  Isn't that difficult?


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## skinters (Aug 7, 2008)

brocklee said:


> Roll with mits on?  Isn't that difficult?



im thinking along the lines of non chisao drills.


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## mook jong man (Aug 8, 2008)

skinters said:


> im thinking along the lines of non chisao drills.


 
If you really want to hammer each other in the chest wear those tae kwon do chest protectors also i don't advocate hitting partners in the head without head gear on but a good palm strike in the chest can wake people up a bit . 

You don't want to get a reputation in the school as the guy with no control then no one will train with you especially when you start learning elbow strikes.


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## Si-Je (Aug 11, 2008)

Can't training be fun too?  As well as serious?
I don't condone laughing AT someone else while doing chi sau or any kind of training, but I think that the ability to laugh at yourself is commendable.

If their just too silly, just let them know your ready to get more serious for a few.  If their not taking YOU seriously as a training partner, then that is a different issue altogether.

Personally, I love WC and training is fun for me (as well as very frustrating sometimes) I seem to learn better in a relaxed environment.  If people start hitting me in training, then it cease's to be training real quick.  I've never been one to tolerate fellow students or Sifu's who hit.  That's not what I train for, to be hit.  I train to keep from being hit.
Now, hubbie likes the rougher contact.  But, I tend to take it personal, so I like to keep things friendly.

Having gear on is great for more full contact, too.  It takes the fear reflex out of your opponent.  "No fear with the head gear!"  We joke in class.  

But, that's sparring, Chi Sau is a different story.  Your learning to feel your opponents energy force, and intention, not to really knock their block off.  Your working sensitivity and learning to react to holes in your opponent's guard, and flow in the direction of their force.  
Honestly, distraction whether someone giggles or curses you out is what one will have to learn to deal with in reality.  
But, I train with a two year old running around laughing and squealing.  If you can do chi sau with that ruckas going on you can use it whenever you need it.  lol!


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## geezer (Aug 11, 2008)

JustAVisitor said:


> When i was teaching, if the class was too tense, too serious, too aggressive, then i would move from one student to the next and make them smile, sometimes giggle, so they would relax a bit.
> If the class was too giggly, then i would put on a stern face and would practice with few students very methodically. This means that i would try one or two techniques repeatdly that would result in a slap or a punch (but the movements will not stop). After few entries, the students would turn irritated and all giggling would stop.
> Mood is contagious.
> This said... you should focus on your own practice and not judge your partners'.
> Also... what happens around you should not distract you from what you are doing.



Well put. Since I've returned to training this last year, I've been working with some people that have a great sense of humor and sometimes lighten the mood up just as you describe. We are all still quite serious about our practice. But a few laughs and smiles really help sometimes.

On the other hand, regarding those "giggles"...ever consider that skinters' partners are just _dangerously insane? ...or totally high like some kind of WC Cheech and Chong?_ I once knew a kid who loved full contact fighting and every time he took a hard shot, he'd crack up laughing. If he got knocked out, he thought it was hilarious (when he came to). Last I heard he was in prison doing hard time...(this is a true story)...


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 13, 2008)

brocklee said:


> I believe that sifu should be the only one allowed to hit a student with impact in class. Anyone else may create an actual fight


 
Not at all. If someone is being so disrespectful as to constantly giggle at you while doing a serious drill, then a wake up call is sometimes good. 
There is a difference between a one off gigle when you get hit and someone who is just generally giggling at you constantly through a drill 
Someone who is giggling all the time has issues and certainly wouldn't be welcome at my class


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## skinters (Aug 13, 2008)

after looking at it again i see this giggling as just signs of nervousness,epsecially if you roll with someone you have just met,and maybe that is where it comes from?

i certaintly dont take it personal as along with everything else im not going to be the first nor the last to have this problem,but im starting to realise its not really a problem at all .

i think aswell i might have giving the impression of someone who constantly giggles throughout,but its not the case.i was just intrested to know where it comes from and realising its just a part of it.

im just sticking (forgive the pun) to my game,and realising not everyones the same.this is made more apparent doing chisao than anything else ive ever done.


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## brocklee (Aug 13, 2008)

Kamon Guy said:


> Not at all. If someone is being so disrespectful as to constantly giggle at you while doing a serious drill, then a wake up call is sometimes good.
> There is a difference between a one off gigle when you get hit and someone who is just generally giggling at you constantly through a drill
> Someone who is giggling all the time has issues and certainly wouldn't be welcome at my class



Because WARRIORS don't giggle? lol  that's silly because we work off of fundamentals of being relax and at ease.  Its like yin and yang.  Cant be serious without periods of fun.

I know if someone we're to plant one on me because I giggled during training,  it would create a physical fight and both students would be asked not to return.


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 14, 2008)

I'm not talking about those moments where something happens and both students smile
I'm talking about idiots that giggle all the way through chi sao or lok saowhen you are trying to do it seriously. If you are both doing a relaxed 'play' then fair enough. But if you are trying to learn new techniques or drilling something in and a pratt is messing around then sometimes a wake up call is needed


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## Seeker (Aug 14, 2008)

We sometimes take chi sau a little light hearted, I think it is way more fun than some hard a__ who takes it all to seriously, all the time. It's a training drill, not sparing for Pete sakes. 

I giggle in Judo randori as well, must be obnoxious getting tossed by someone while they're laughing at you.


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 15, 2008)

As stated (for about the fifth time) I am not referring to a spar, roll, drill where both parties are gong light and doing it for fun

The original post was by someone who was trying to do chi sao while their partner was giggling at them throughout the drill. That is not the same as a friendly roll around in BJJ or light spar in karate. It is someone basically either mocking their partner or laughing at their physical appearance which is utterly disrespectful. 

Seeker - if a person is tossing you while laughing at you - what you do in your own home is up to you


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## mook jong man (Aug 15, 2008)

> Seeker - if a person is tossing you while laughing at you - what you do in your own home is up to you


[/quote]
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## skinters (Aug 15, 2008)

on reflection ive since come to realise that the ones who giggle laff whatever,are just nervous, i dont see it as i first found, wich was to put a midly a bit of a p*ss take.

one of the students i do chisao with is a bit of a laff he does take it serious but has bouts of giggling,especially if we clash or something unusual happens.

like i said ive since come to realise that its quite common, and on the whole helps me relax. in fact it was in the end instrumental in me losing my tenseness.

an example of this was me and my sifu were doing chisao, and he said my wu sau was so low he thought i was searching for something in my pocket,wich i replied yeah a gun ..its things like that wich helps me relax and my chisao is improving as a result.

sorry if i didnt make my first post a bit more clearer as it was typed a bit in the heat of the moment.

jase.


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## Seeker (Aug 18, 2008)

Kamon Guy said:


> Seeker - if a person is tossing you while laughing at you - what you do in your own home is up to you



:lfao::lfao::lfao::lfao:
Yeah, sometimes I forget, some phrases can sound completely different in other countries.


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