# Effects of LSD



## OULobo (Jan 13, 2004)

I just saw this website and thought that it was one of the most interesting studies I have seen in a while. It was performed by the government in the '50s to study the effects of LSD on perception and expression. The study involved giving a dose of LSD to an artist and asking him to draw the person who administered the drug. The drawings are posted along with some of the artist's quotes and the administer's observations. The most interesting part is that the drawings don't become jumbled messes like if an artist who was intoxicated on alcohol would draw. These are instead quite creative and expressive. jus thought it was interesting and wanted to share.

http://www.cowboybooks.com.au/html/acidtrip1.html


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## Shodan (Jan 13, 2004)

Sounds pretty interesting- I wonder if the time between taking the drug and drawing made any difference........like, I wonder if they had them draw different things at different intervals, or just the initial drawing.  Seems like things might change once the drug was in the system for awhile.

  :asian:  :karate:


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## OULobo (Jan 13, 2004)

You'll have to excuse my stupidity. I forgot to post the link initially. Its up now by my edit. In referace to Shodan, that is exactly what they did. The artist drew another drawing every few hours. The progression of his artistic methods at the different stages of the drug's effect are the most interesting part.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 13, 2004)

I've read that LSD was one of the most sucsessfull alchohol treatments found; however, its reputation after the 60s really killed the medicle benefit angle. Heroine is by far the best pain killer available and it is perfectly safe if made properly, but once again its reputation has made it unusefull. Who's to blaim? the government. Who else would change the name Hemp to Marijuana just to give it a Mexican sounding name? Talk about ignoring thousands of years of history.


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## TonyM. (Jan 14, 2004)

William Randolf Hearst did that. He also produced Reefer Madness. The story is he invested a fortune in timber for paper and was paranoid the hemp industry would try to replace pulp with hemp.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *I've read that LSD was one of the most sucsessfull alchohol treatments found; however, its reputation after the 60s really killed the medicle benefit angle. Heroine is by far the best pain killer available and it is perfectly safe if made properly, but once again its reputation has made it unusefull. Who's to blaim? the government. Who else would change the name Hemp to Marijuana just to give it a Mexican sounding name? Talk about ignoring thousands of years of history. *



As a recovering drug addict/alcoholic of 15 years I found the site rawther amusing...particularly reading the subject's responses. I was like yeaaah man I can dig that...having previous experience(s) with LSD. The drawings were rather interesting as well. Makes you think what Dali would've done if he had... wait a tic...mebbe he did  
Anyway reading that LSD was "one of the most successful alcohol treatments found... hmm I dunno. LSD (aka Acid... for good reason) when taken severely alters the chemicals in the brain. Boosting Seratonin levels and the like thus producing the "ohhh wow man, pretty colors!" effects. I've seen folks have "bad-trips" one guy literally destroyed an entire house single handedly with MA and a tab of blotter acid (the liquidfied drug soaked into linen paper and dried then cut into 1/4 inch squares to dissolve on/ under the tongue). 
That the government was involved in psychotropic drug experimentation goes without question ... it is suspected that they still are. Mark David Chapman (the tower sniper of U of Texas at Austin) was found to be loaded with amphetamines in his body and had pockets full of the pills and is on record as being part of a on-campus drug-experimentation sponsored by the good-ole-USA. 
This information came out via the freedom of information act BTW.

Drugs in any form can be dangerous if taken the wrong way. (DUH!) The subject from the website obviously had a "good-trip" it would've been interesting to see what he would've drawn if he was having a bad one. 

Now-a-days nobody knows how to make the same LSD that Timothy Leary and those folks in the 60's did. I wouldn't trust it. Same goes for the marijeewanna that's being sold. Idjits are adding to it. Best to stay off the drug-crap altogether and savor the highs one gets from MA's training. 

:asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 14, 2004)

The idea is to force a bad trip and make them confront their alchohol addiction. And because you and others feel negativly about the recreational aspect, the medical bennefits will never be explored. Thats cool I suppose; the alternative treatments are without fail.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *The idea is to force a bad trip and make them confront their alchohol addiction. And because you and others feel negativly about the recreational aspect, the medical bennefits will never be explored. Thats cool I suppose; the alternative treatments are without fail. *



Geez man. That's like having your MA instructor hold a loaded gun to your head, making you drink raw sewage while telling you that you did the technique all wrong!

Who the hell thought THAT idea up. Probably a non-alcoholic I'll wager. 


The alternative treatments (for me it was the 12 steps) are definitely without fail!


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MACaver _
> *Geez man. That's like having your MA instructor hold a loaded gun to your head, making you drink raw sewage while telling you that you did the technique all wrong!
> 
> Who the hell thought THAT idea up. Probably a non-alcoholic I'll wager.
> ...


Sounds like you know my instructor. (Ha Ha) AA may cure your alchohol addiction but it does not address addiction. They are all sitting in a group hepped up on coffee and cigarettes, not to mention they often go out for drinks to celebrate sobriety. A lot of intersting marriages occur as well. What about drug therapy? Oh now, there is a room full of connections. The whole damn system is a faliure, my freind.


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## OULobo (Jan 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MACaver _
> *That the government was involved in psychotropic drug experimentation goes without question ... it is suspected that they still are. Mark David Chapman (the tower sniper of U of Texas at Austin) was found to be loaded with amphetamines in his body and had pockets full of the pills and is on record as being part of a on-campus drug-experimentation sponsored by the good-ole-USA.
> This information came out via the freedom of information act BTW.
> *



I think it's pretty well documented that LSD was initially created by the military. They even tested it on soldiers. The idea was to spray it on the enemy to induce temporary psychosis that would disrupt the enemy's organizatinal skills, possibly even induce psychotic attacks on their own comrades. The idea was abandoned because there was no way to assure enemy would have a "bad trip" and the Geneva Convention forbade the use of chemicals against the enemy in combat.


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## theletch1 (Jan 15, 2004)

Even a good trip would have been advantageous.  We would have been the most popular enemy in the world.  "Man, I love fighting those Americans.  They've got some good $@%t!"


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## someguy (Jan 15, 2004)

That crazy.  Yeah it might be good that we can't use LSD on our enemies.  They would be  like "We have nukes come and invade us please please please."


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## edhead2000 (Jan 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *I think it's pretty well documented that LSD was initially created by the military.  *



Actually, the discovery of LSD is credited to Albert Hofmann, a chemist at Sandoz Pharmaceuticals in 1943.  He was the first to ("accidentally") experience the LSD trip.  

Another reason the army probably disregarded the idea of spraying the enemy with LSD is the wait time.  The effects of LSD usually begin in 40 to 60 minutes and peak around 2 to 4 hours.  So they'd have to wait a little while after they sprayed it on the enemy, giving the enemy plenty of "non-psychotic" time to fight back.  

Erin


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## theletch1 (Jan 16, 2004)

> _Originally posted by edhead2000 _
> *Actually, the discovery of LSD is credited to Albert Hofmann, a chemist at Sandoz Pharmaceuticals in 1943.  He was the first to ("accidentally") experience the LSD trip.
> 
> Another reason the army probably disregarded the idea of spraying the enemy with LSD is the wait time.  The effects of LSD usually begin in 40 to 60 minutes and peak around 2 to 4 hours.  So they'd have to wait a little while after they sprayed it on the enemy, giving the enemy plenty of "non-psychotic" time to fight back.
> ...


 I'd imagine a lot of the argument for not using LSD in a combat situation had to do with the almighty dollar.  The argument that you give in your post is a perfect example of limited return on your investment.  Chemical weapons which are much more lethal cost a whole lot less.  I would have thought that we'd have learned something about fighting an enemy in a drug enduced frenzy after the campaign in the Phillipines.  Granted, the trip on LSD would have been a bit different but still you run the risk of actually making it harder to stop an opponent when you intentionally put them in a drugged state.


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 17, 2004)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "BZ" is the big hallucinogenic gas of choice designed for warfare.  At least it was...urk...25 years ago.  I don't know if it was LSD based.  For that matter, I don't know if anyone still uses it.

The stuff left the victim in somewhat of stupor...crying...inactive.  

They're currently experimenting with hypersonics to see if they can induce depression.  Imagine "prepping" an area with undetectable sound at a frequency that causes 20 percent of the enemy to become melancholy.  That could have a dramatic effect on their performance.   

I've often thought we should take all our dope seized in drugs raids and sell it cheap to the Iraqi's, Afghanis, etc.  They'd be sooooooo much calmer if they lit up.  Why become a suicide bomber when they could just...get bombed?

"Hafas, dude...wanna see how I made a bong out of an RPG-47?"

"Whoa, dude...that is AWESOME.  Hey, I know where there's an abandoned T-55 tank.  Dig this...we pack the turret full of weed, and then suck the smoke out of the cannon barrel!"

"Where we gonna get that much weed, dude?"

"4th Infantry Division, dude.  The infidel Yanks are giving it away by the truckload!"

I would then invest in a Nabisco factory built in Baghdad.  I would become wealthy, and retire to a villa in the Greek outer islands.  You could all come visit me.

Regards,


Steve


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## OULobo (Jan 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *
> 
> "Hafas, dude...wanna see how I made a bong out of an RPG-47?"
> ...





:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

Sounds like a new movie genre. It's not Cheech and Chong, it's Abdula and Akbar.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 18, 2004)

I would watch those movies!!!!

Here are a few more...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

"Hashmir, think we can get high of this VX?"  
"Probably, I hear American kids sniff glue."

"Mohammed, don't put anymore of that ***** in the bomb!  These dirty joints are killer, dude."
"Yeah, man, I'm glowing."
"Sweet."

"Hanif, maybe we should go out and Jihad today."
"Ahhh, tomorrow man, take a drag off this and quit being such a buzzkill."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

It's the new faze of the war on drugs!!!!

Upnorthkyosa


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 18, 2004)

"Man...like I could SO get into some falafel right about now...I have the Mediterranean Munchies like you wouldn't believe!"

"Dude, I'm as baked as a pita..."





Regards,



Steve


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## redfang (Jan 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MACaver _
> *As a recovering drug addict/alcoholic of 15 years I found the site rawther amusing...particularly reading the subject's responses. I was like yeaaah man I can dig that...having previous experience(s) with LSD. The drawings were rather interesting as well. Makes you think what Dali would've done if he had... wait a tic...mebbe he did
> Anyway reading that LSD was "one of the most successful alcohol treatments found... hmm I dunno. LSD (aka Acid... for good reason) when taken severely alters the chemicals in the brain. Boosting Seratonin levels and the like thus producing the "ohhh wow man, pretty colors!" effects. I've seen folks have "bad-trips" one guy literally destroyed an entire house single handedly with MA and a tab of blotter acid (the liquidfied drug soaked into linen paper and dried then cut into 1/4 inch squares to dissolve on/ under the tongue).
> That the government was involved in psychotropic drug experimentation goes without question ... it is suspected that they still are. Mark David Chapman (the tower sniper of U of Texas at Austin) was found to be loaded with amphetamines in his body and had pockets full of the pills and is on record as being part of a on-campus drug-experimentation sponsored by the good-ole-USA.
> ...


 Mark David Chapman shot John Lennon.  I don't recall off hand who the UofT sniper was.  

I have to agree with you that LSD probably has little if no value as an alcoholism treatment.  Personally(Speaking from the experiences of youth) I found LSD to be pleasant and mostly harmless, provided its taken in a safe surrounding where one doesn't have to go anywhere for a good 6-8 hours.  It can provide insight into a number of things, unfortuantely it's almost impossible to remember them shortly after thinking them.  Also, one must be of a very positive mindset, or its easy to become frightened or agitated and have a bad trip.  Personally, I can't recommend it to anyone, too many variables and dangers for the inexperienced.  Doesn't really lend itself to serious training either.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *Sounds like you know my instructor. (Ha Ha) AA may cure your alchohol addiction but it does not address addiction. They are all sitting in a group hepped up on coffee and cigarettes, not to mention they often go out for drinks to celebrate sobriety. A lot of intersting marriages occur as well. What about drug therapy? Oh now, there is a room full of connections. The whole damn system is a faliure, my freind. *



Well TOD I guess this is where we have to butt heads. I'll just politely say that you're mistaken and mis-informed about the program. But that's okay (particularly if you're being tounge in cheek, and it seems like you are  ). 
All I know is that it works (for me) and I stand behind it. 

Also I do not drink coffee anymore. Hot chocolate maybe but not chocolate. Seems I've developed an allergy to it after I got sober. Too bad... I used to LOVE coffee.


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## TonyM. (Jan 19, 2004)

Isn't coffee a conferance approved drug? I like it when someone announces they have relapsed and are back and money exchanges hands under the tables.


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 20, 2004)

> Mark David Chapman shot John Lennon. I don't recall off hand who the UofT sniper was.




Charles Whitman.

There was no evidence that Whitman had anything wrong with him, other than a post mortem brain tumor.  It was never determined whether that actually could have effected him, as he was cremated.

I doubt he was on acid, or a victim of same.  Same with Chapman.  I hadn't read that either was on the drug or did it to any great extent.


Regards,


Steve


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## theletch1 (Jan 23, 2004)

> Charles Whitman.


 Could he have achieved the accuracy that he had with LSD pumping through him?  I've never used the stuff so I really don't know.


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 23, 2004)

> Could he have achieved the accuracy that he had with LSD pumping through him? I've never used the stuff so I really don't know.



I doubt it.  

In any case, I have NEVER heard that he used LSD.  I remember when that happened.  Nobody talked about LSD.  They mentioned the tumor, but it was inconclusive.

Unless somebody provides me with something that strongly indicates Whitman was on LSD, then I'll dismiss it as an urban myth.


Regards



Steve


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## TonyM. (Jan 23, 2004)

Me thinks someone has seen conspiracy theory too many times. Repeat after me: it was just a movie.


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## redfang (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *Could he have achieved the accuracy that he had with LSD pumping through him?  I've never used the stuff so I really don't know. *


 I have seen people do impressive physical while tripping on acid.  I have seen people who weren't dart players hit three consecutive corks. I've seen people perform feats that require great balance and concentration.  So its possible that a sniper might be able to function. Though the uncertainty would make it likely that they would try to.   LSD isn't like alcohol on that it automatically impairs coordination and concentration.  If someone has some experience with it or the right type of mind, the effects can be just the opposite in some cases.


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## psi_radar (Jan 25, 2004)

Screw dropping LSD on the enemy. I say we collect the nation's soiled diapers and drop them out of b-52s on te enemy's population centers. It probably defies the geneva convention, but I bet it'd produce results real fast. 

I wish I could remember the name, but I've heard a major-league pitcher once threw a perfect game on LSD.


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 25, 2004)

> So its possible that a sniper might be able to function.



Perhaps...but one can't assume Whitman was on acid.  I've never heard anything to that nature until reading it on this forum.  Anybody have any information on this?


Regards,


Steve


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## MA-Caver (Jan 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *Charles Whitman.
> There was no evidence that Whitman had anything wrong with him, other than a post mortem brain tumor.  It was never determined whether that actually could have effected him, as he was cremated.
> I doubt he was on acid, or a victim of same.  Same with Chapman.  I hadn't read that either was on the drug or did it to any great extent.
> ...



Ah WHITMAN! Well any rate my source of his being high on Amphetamines (not acid-heroin-or anything else) comes from a radio talk show (yes, yes, I know, only take THOSE things with a grain of salt) that said when the Freedom of Information Act came out (back when?) it was found that the Texas Grand Jury had done an autopsy and a check on Whitman and found the info that I stated earlier (scroll up folks). The information was sealed and of course he was cremated... 

If this info IS available via the F.I.A. then it may be worth looking into. 

:asian:


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 27, 2004)

Whitman might have indeed used speed...I don't recall exactly.  That's a far cry from LSD, however, and I doubt it would have caused him to "Go Postal."

He was probably paranoid...felt the world was out to get him.  That seems to be the major psychological glitch in the mind of perpetrators of mass killings.



Regards,



Steve


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## MA-Caver (Jan 27, 2004)

Speed/methamphetamines do not (usually) cause psychosis but since the mind/body is so ~wired!~ there is a good loss of coherient thought. 
Whitman's wife and mother were found shot to death when they searched his home, coroner's report indicated that they were killed the night before his rampage. 
And again Whitman was known to have participated in experimental drug testing on campus sponsored by the government....
Meth again I say does not (usually) cause psychosis but it can attribute to increase of the disorder... that's why it's called SPEED... heh...


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 28, 2004)

> And again Whitman was known to have participated in experimental drug testing on campus sponsored by the government....




Where'd you get this?


Regards,



Steve


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## MA-Caver (Jan 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *Where'd you get this?
> Regards,
> Steve *



About a year ago a friend of mine had ordered from a local (Salt Lake City) radio station a tape of an interview with a doctor who was speaking about/against perscription drug abuse. 
Forgive me that I forget the guest's name, but I do have a copy of the tape itself (somewhere buried in storage). 
But the man did state that it can be found on the "freedom of information act" presumably there's a website (google it dude!) which will give that information. 

Disclaimer (and you can roll your eyes at me if ya like ): I take (and give) this info with a grain of salt.


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 31, 2004)

You're right about his use of speed.

Did a Google search, and couldn't find anything linking LSD and Whitman.  The search was complicated by the fact that the year he did his killing spree LSD was outlawed in California.

He was abusing dexedrine.  He also had a history of family violence, his father having beaten him and his mother quite badly.  

He had very low self esteem, didn't accomplish what he set out to do, and had a streak of violence himself.  He was in counseling for his seething anger.  He had talked of fantasies about shooting people from the Texas Tower.

He planned the event in detail, purchasing equipment for it well in advance.  He left specific letters requesting an autopsy be done upon him to determine why he was behaving so badly.  He also left letters to his family members dictating what was to be done with his property, his dog, etc.

This was a disturbed individual...not a guy using acid.  The dexedrine might indeed have helped send him over the edge.  It looks like probably would have ended up there anyway.

A good account found here:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/whitman/index_1.html?sect=8

Fascinating story.  But disturbing.  I remember the  event.  I was nine at the time.  That was about the time I started reading the newspaper.



> Speed/methamphetamines do not (usually) cause psychosis



About a third of heavy users do.  The psychosis can last for weeks.  A Google on that turned up all sorts of hits.

Some stuff on meth psychosis:

http://www.rnceus.com/meth/methpsych.html

http://www.adanz.org.nz/index.cfm/drugmeth

Regards,


Steve


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