# Ballistic Knife



## THE BIG EVIL

See Link http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2300/2375.htm
Can anybody tell me some more on this knife ?


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## OULobo

It's big and sharp.

Past that, I've seen these around from time to time. Not really a good idea, more of a novelty. They are near impossible to reload and they only impact blade first about 60% of the time. The worst part is that they are almost useless as a standard knife. The lack of a secured tang makes it notoriously unstable and the "firing mechanism" is prone to premature activation (not the thing the therapist can help with).


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## Patrick Skerry

THE BIG EVIL said:
			
		

> See Link http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2300/2375.htm
> Can anybody tell me some more on this knife ?


The ballistic knife was a Soviet Spetznatz (Special Forces) hand to hand combat weapon that was discovered being used in Afghanistan in the late '70s.

It has a spring in the handle and is capable of shooting the knife out at a good enough velocity to seriously penetrate the human body.  It was being sold in the U.S. through Soldier of Fortune magazine, which did an article on it, but later on the sale of the ballistic knife was modified to be sold without the spring.  The spring is very powerful and not easily duplicated.

U.S. military intelligence is not really quite sure why it was made, because it doesn't do well at any distance, or penetrate body armor, or heavy winter clothing, yet it was issued to all Soviet Commando type troops.

In the late seventies, some other unique Spetznatz hand to hand combat weapons were also found in Afghanistan, like an underwater dart gun, which was the size of a .45, that really worked quite well. It used compressed air to fire stainless steel darts the length of a knitting needle which traveled over 30 feet underwater with a high impact.  SEAL team has since adopted the methodology.


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## Baytor

I read somewhere that they made those knives to make up for shortcomings in their training.


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## Patrick Skerry

IamBaytor said:
			
		

> I read somewhere that they made those knives to make up for shortcomings in their training.


My research is that the Spetznatz were as highly trained as SEALS or S.A.S.?

I know that the Soviet infantry were supposed to be shaky.  My understanding was that the ballistics knife was supposedly only issued to elite commando type groups.


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## Baytor

That is true, they are the elite of the Russian military.  However, it is possible that these knives were made as a shortcut so that they could spend less time doing knife fighting and more time in other training.  It is also possible that those knives were not actually used by the commandos.  The Soviets had a lot of red tape, stuff could have been issued even if it wasn't wanted or needed.  This is just my opinion now, mind you.


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## Patrick Skerry

IamBaytor said:
			
		

> That is true, they are the elite of the Russian military. However, it is possible that these knives were made as a shortcut so that they could spend less time doing knife fighting and more time in other training. It is also possible that those knives were not actually used by the commandos. The Soviets had a lot of red tape, stuff could have been issued even if it wasn't wanted or needed. This is just my opinion now, mind you.


Because the ballistic knives were made in limited quantity and issued to only the Soviet special forces, who are highly trained in hand to hand combat, the ballistic knife served another purpose, which U.S. Army Intelligence hadn't figured out in the late 70's early 80's (but maybe they have by now).

It is true that the Soviet Army was mired by red tape, but that is so true of all armies, and (my guess) a few ballistic knives may have ended up where they shouldn't, like at cooking school or in an operating room or something.


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## Silat Student

I recently was doing some research on Spetsnaz (the Book Spetsnaz, written by a defected SZ officer was particularly useful although it's hard to find and OOP now). One thing that interested me was their concentration on the Shovel as a main CQC weapon instead of the knife. Most of the research I've done tends to point to the Old SZ being more interested in "gadgets" (i.e. the above knife) than their Western Counterparts.


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## Patrick Skerry

Silat Student said:
			
		

> I recently was doing some research on Spetsnaz (the Book Spetsnaz, written by a defected SZ officer was particularly useful although it's hard to find and OOP now). One thing that interested me was their concentration on the Shovel as a main CQC weapon instead of the knife. Most of the research I've done tends to point to the Old SZ being more interested in "gadgets" (i.e. the above knife) than their Western Counterparts.


The use of a 'shovel' or 'E'-Tool (Entrenching Tool) as a weapon goes back to WWI, and was emphasized by the U.S. Army since then.  If you get captured alive after some h2h combat, and you're using some kind of weird weapon like a battleaxe or bowieknife or samurai sword to kill their buddies, you're in a world of hurt!  But if you get captured and all you're using is a simple shovel to kill guys with, they just might keep you alive a bit longer than usual, or ship you to a p.o.w. camp entact (at least that's what my uncle told me, a Korean War vet).

There is nothing unusual about the former Soviet or current Russian Army emphasizing a shovel for hand to hand combat, and it sounds like a bit of wisdom on their part.


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## Silat Student

I had just never heard of that level of emphasis I guess. According to the above mentioned book they were trained to throw the shovel with accuracy as well as use it for hand to hand. I wish there were some tapes on their manner of fighting but I don't think there was ever a formalized system of "shovel-fu".


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## Patrick Skerry

Silat Student said:
			
		

> I had just never heard of that level of emphasis I guess. According to the above mentioned book they were trained to throw the shovel with accuracy as well as use it for hand to hand. I wish there were some tapes on their manner of fighting but I don't think there was ever a formalized system of "shovel-fu".


If you see the Oliver Stone movie: PLATOON, you will see a good example of  the e-tool (shovel) being used on the enemy by the big American Army sargeant, Barnes,  as their camp gets overrun by NVA regulars.


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## arnisandyz

Interesting...

I found this site as well.  

http://www.vampiregerbil.com/ballistic/

There is another type of "ballistic knife" that has a revolver (gun) housed in the handle of the knife. 

Andy


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## psi_radar

Silat Student--

Systema uses the entrenching shovel (as well as other improvised weapons) pretty commonly in their training--I've even seen them for sale at one of their schools. Post at the forum on www.russianmartialart.com or the Systema forum here and you might be able to track down a tape or an mpeg--the Systema guys are prolific videotapers, so someone probably has something somewhere.


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## Silat Student

Nice, thanks guys.


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