# Practicing Self Defense for Beginners



## Krista (Mar 23, 2015)

Hi Everyone,

I'm a beginner and am just learning some of the basic punches/kicks etc. I was wondering what the best way is to practice the things I'm learning. Is it important that I get access to a standing punching bag? Are there other things (wall-mounted mats, etc) that might work? My local gym doesn't have punching bags, so I'd need to pay extra at a different gym to use them. 

How important is it to practice with resistance?

Thanks!
Krista


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## K-man (Mar 23, 2015)

Hi Krista,
Welcome to MT.

When we talk of self defence most of SD is avoiding fighting so I'm assuming that you're not really talking of self defence but of developing some basic fighting skills in case all else fails.

Are you training with an instructor or are you trying to develop these skills by yourself? If you have an instructor then I would be asking him/her about your extra training, and if you haven't got an instructor, instead of paying for access to a different gym, I'd be putting the money into some private tuition.


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## Shai Hulud (Mar 23, 2015)

It's best that you study an organized system/school (such as Krav Maga, Systema, Silat, Kung Fu, Karate, etc.) under a proper instructor. I would not advise just arbitrarily studying techniques left and right without an organized curriculum to guide you.

I could mention a wide range of equipment that would help you a great deal at this point. Punching bags, focus pads, wall mounted mats, resistance bands, even kettle-bells, sledgehammers, jump-rope and free weights. _But to identify which ones you will need exactly, you will need to choose an art to study properly. _


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 23, 2015)

welcome to MT.
as others have asked are you in a school/system already


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## Buka (Mar 23, 2015)

Welcome to MT, Krista!

As a beginner, what's important is going to class. Practice any way you want. 
Best not to worry about bags, mats or whatever, best just to work out and have fun doing so.

Are you fit? In shape? Strong core?


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## Krista (Mar 24, 2015)

I'm learning some techniques from a friend who studied hand-to-hand combat in the military. It's all framed as self-defense, but yes, I am learning some basic fighting techniques as well as how to get out of dangerous situations.

I'm pretty fit, although I haven't practiced martial arts before (I'm a swimmer).

I really appreciate your help! I will also ask my friend if he has suggestions.

Thanks!


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## lisamegan (Dec 12, 2016)

It is best to learn self defense kicks and moves from a professional martial school or learn it online.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 12, 2016)

lisamegan said:


> It is best to learn self defense kicks and moves from a professional martial school or learn it online.



First off, welcome to MT. Maybe you'd like to go over to Meet & Greet and tell us something about yourself?
Beyond that... no... just no. You really cannot learn martial arts by watching videos online. Books and videos can be an excellent supplement to quality training, but they are in no way a replacement.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 12, 2016)

Good advice so far.  I want to follow up on about not worrying about the punching bag.  The most that a punching bag will do for you will be conditioning the fist (if you don't wear gloves) and impact conditioning for your joints, ligaments,  and tendons.  With punching and kicking it's all about technique and making sure you are punching correctly.

General rule. Learn correct technique 1st. Punch hard 2nd.


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## Paul_D (Dec 12, 2016)

As well as studying the physical (hard) skills, what are you doing to train the non physical (soft) skills of self defence, as these are arguably more important, as done correctly they will in most cases keep you from ever getting to the point where the hard skills become necessary.

Examples of soft skills are Threat & Awareness Evaluation (inc coopers Colour Codes), Target Hardening, The Fence, familiarising yourself with The Ritual of Violence, self defence law (in you are) Pre-emptive striking, Verbal De-escalation, etc etc


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## marques (Dec 12, 2016)

Krista said:


> How important is it to practice with resistance?
> Krista


Extremely important. But not the first thing to do (not before doing things with no-to-little resistance).
Bags are (mainly) for power training. Also not a priority for a beginner.

As a beginner... Yeah, join a good school or club.

The OP probably is not following it. But several people is asking how to start. Easy. Find a school (which may not be so easy). There are not shortcuts.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 12, 2016)

marques said:


> Extremely important. But not the first thing to do (not before doing things with no-to-little resistance).
> Bags are (mainly) for power training. Also not a priority for a beginner.
> 
> As a beginner... Yeah, join a good school or club.
> ...


Definitely no short cuts are available.

Things people train for years to be good in

Playing Music
Cooking
Drawing
Singing
Playing a sport (tennis, football, basketball, golf.etc)
Driving a car (every time we are in the car it's practice time)
Flying a plane
Being a teacher
Being a scientist
Being a parent
Going to school
But when people want to learn self-defense they always try to short cut it and then expect to be good at it.


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## mograph (Dec 12, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> But when people want to learn self-defense they always try to short cut it and then expect to be good at it.


No kidding. And they want to be at a _professional_ level as well.


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## oftheherd1 (Dec 13, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Definitely no short cuts are available.
> 
> Things people train for years to be good in
> 
> ...



That is one of the best answers I have seen to the person who may not understand why you can't be an expert two or three sessions.

But I don't think that is quite where the OP is.  She seems to be interested in martial arts, and wants to get better.  But for some reason hasn't opted for in-class training.

Krista, first, welcome to MT.  Looking forward to your input as you continue in your martial arts journey.  Some USA military training is good, at least for what it is intended to do; give a military person some down and dirty techniques for increased survival in battle.

But if you are beginning to enjoy the idea of learning a martial art, I would encourage you to look for a school that teaches what you like, in a way you like.  Learning what your friend has been taught may be fun, and he may be good at passing on what he knows.  But generally we think it best to learn in a school setting, with a teacher who is belted and perhaps teacher certified  in his/her style.


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## mograph (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes. Krista, we are not implying that you want to be an expert in a short period of time. We did go off the rails a bit, by complaining about those who look for shortcuts. We do tend to rant on occasion, but it keeps our circulation up! 

It just sounds as if you want to practice diligently and effectively, and for that you should be applauded.

As for resistance? In our tradition (yiquan-based), we use _cooperative_ resistance early on in order to get a feeling for our use of force throughout the whole body, and to gain an idea of how a resisting opponent feels.

I think that you should consult with your instructor regarding the need for a bag. If you don't have an instructor ... well, it's generally a good idea to have one.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 13, 2016)

mograph said:


> Yes. Krista, we are not implying that you want to be an expert in a short period of time. We did go off the rails a bit, by complaining about those who look for shortcuts. We do tend to rant on occasion, but it keeps our circulation up!


 Correct.  I posted my statement about shortcuts because it was an opportunity to share some information that I thought would be valuable. The more people who are in the discussion the more valuable information that you'll get.  In a way, this is how martial arts classes work as well.  The more students in a class the more mistakes are make and as a result the instructor will often shape classes around those mistakes and give more information on the why, how, when to use a technique, and what happens if we do a technique do wrong.

It's not that you can't learn in an one on one environment, but your learning will be enhanced in a class environment.  In reality you can do both, learn from a class and still learn from your friend.  There's nothing that says you can't do both.


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## MI_martialist (Dec 13, 2016)

Always use an anatomically correct torso target.  Do not punch and kick in the air, and do not waste your time punching and kicking a simple bag...it has to look like a real target for proper conditioning.


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## Juany118 (Dec 13, 2016)

lisamegan said:


> It is best to learn self defense kicks and moves from a professional martial school or learn it online.


Well the way combatives in the Army works now the person could be a professional for a certain level of techniques.  They have train the trainer courses for levels 1 through 4 and level 1 is only a 4 hour course, level 2 80 hour course levels 3 and 4 are both 160 your courses.  Since the Army plan is to have one level 1 trainer per platoon it is possible the soldier is a "professional" instructor.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 13, 2016)

Krista said:


> How important is it to practice with resistance?


 Not sure if this was answered. But training with resistance is vital.  You can't learn to defend yourself unless you are actually trying to do your techniques against a partner, whose goal is to make you  unsuccessful in defending yourself.  Even something as simple as trying to punch a moving person changes a lot about how you throw punches.   Some of these knew how to punch, but it all changes when your target moves


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## Paul_D (Dec 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


>


Striking for the purposes of self defence is done pre-emptively.  Criminals do not tend to bob and weave or use fighting footwork during the interview stage which precedes a crime, nor during the distraction stage before they sucker punch or put a knife to your throat so they can rob/rape/kill you.

What you are talking about, and what the video you have posted relates to (hence its title) is street fighting which is illegal, as opposed to self-defence which is legal.  It is important to understand the difference, if only for the legal and financial consequences which can follow one but not the other.


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## Steve (Dec 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Definitely no short cuts are available.
> 
> Things people train for years to be good in
> 
> ...


People train to be parents? People train to go to school?  Those struck me as funny.  Training for school and for parenting are both typically OJT. 

Those two aside, the analogy doesn't completely make sense.  What do all of those people have in common?  They do the thing they're learning.  They play music... lots of it.  They teach classes.  Tons of them.  They log countless hours driving cars and actually track the number of hours they spend flying planes.  They cook food that they will eat just about every day, and they actually create drawings. 

What does a typical self defens...er do? 

I understand your point, that there are things that have a steeper and more protracted learning curve.  But a cook doesn't get better as a cook unless he/she cooks.  A pilot doesn't actually get better as a pilot unless he/she flies a plane.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 15, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> Striking for the purposes of self defence is done pre-emptively.  Criminals do not tend to bob and weave or use fighting footwork during the interview stage which precedes a crime, nor during the distraction stage before they sucker punch or put a knife to your throat so they can rob/rape/kill you.
> 
> What you are talking about, and what the video you have posted relates to (hence its title) is street fighting which is illegal, as opposed to self-defence which is legal.  It is important to understand the difference, if only for the legal and financial consequences which can follow one but not the other.


you totally missed the point I was making


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## Paul_D (Dec 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> you totally missed the point I was making


Your point was hitting  moving target changes how you punch.  The point is you are not hitting a moving target in self defence, at least not if you are doing it properly.


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## drop bear (Dec 15, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> Your point was hitting  moving target changes how you punch.  The point is you are not hitting a moving target in self defence, at least not if you are doing it properly.



What do you do if a criminal doesnt attack using your rules of correct criminal attack. I dont know say he does move.

Then how do you address that?


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## Paul_D (Dec 15, 2016)

drop bear said:


> What do you do if a criminal doesnt attack using your rules of correct criminal attack. I dont know say he does move.
> 
> Then how do you address that?


They aren't my rules I'm not criminal.  They aren't rules, they are known as The Rituals Of Violence.

What sort of movement are you talking about?


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 15, 2016)

Steve said:


> People train to be parents? People train to go to school?


 Yes people train to be parents. There are classes for it.
People train to go to college by working hard to do well in high school, which helps them to win fully or partially paid scholarships.  How many hours were put into studying and training the mind and the skill sets?  In tribes and villages the youth are trained to take the roles that they have as adults, this includes being parents and hunters.  This same type of training also happens in modern societies



Steve said:


> But a cook doesn't get better as a cook unless he/she cooks. A pilot doesn't actually get better as a pilot unless he/she flies a plane


That's the point I was making.   You can't be good in school unless you go to school.  You can't be a good parent unless you are a parent.  You can't be good in self defense unless you practice self-defense and the quality time and training that you put into it will determine how well you are able to perform.  There are exceptions but it's not the norm.

There have been people who have not done cooking who are able to cook well.  There are people who have never flown planes, who have flown and landed planes in emergencies.  The important things between exceptions and training is that it's an exception and not a norm.  




Steve said:


> What does a typical self defens...er do?


 The "typical self defenser" trains movement not self defense.  This is evidence by not having sparring or using resistance appropriately. Train by doing.

If fighting and self-defense means that a person has to block and avoid punches and kicks, then training should include this.  Kicks and punches should be similar and as close to real punches and resistance as possible, without resulting in injuries that prevent training or cause permanent damage.  For example, Flight Simulators.

If you look at what people do to be good in something you'll see that they put quality time in training and learning.   But when it comes to self-defense many people short-cut their training and expect to be good at something that they don't spend time in actually training.   I have a student that only shows up for a sparring class and a regular class.  So she only gets 1 class of drilling kung fu techniques.  She gets down on herself that she's not fighting well in sparring class.  What she fails to understand is that she only does 1 class learning kung fu techniques which is 1 hour of week.  Sparring class is used to help students learn how to use during the regular classes.  So while she is getting the sparring in, she's not getting the other half which is learning the techniques.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 15, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> Your point was hitting  moving target changes how you punch.  The point is you are not hitting a moving target in self defence, at least not if you are doing it properly.


You are still missing the point.  When you are are being attacked, is your attacker moving? Is your attacker trying to defend against your attacks as well?  If you attack me like a criminal, will you move your face if you see me punching for it or will you just stay there and let me punch you in your face while I try to defend myself.


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## Steve (Dec 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Yes people train to be parents. There are classes for it.


But most people don't go to those classes.  Or maybe I'm the only one who didn't.  





> People train to go to college by working hard to do well in high school, which helps them to win fully or partially paid scholarships.  How many hours were put into studying and training the mind and the skill sets?  In tribes and villages the youth are trained to take the roles that they have as adults, this includes being parents and hunters.  This same type of training also happens in modern societies


Give it up.  High school is on one hand nothing like college.  On the other, at best, being as generous as possible, on the job training for college.   I don't know what the heck you're talking about with the tribal stuff.  





> That's the point I was making.   You can't be good in school unless you go to school.  You can't be a good parent unless you are a parent.


This isn't training, though.  School isn't training (well, I mean, it's inherently training, but being a student isn't training to be a student).  You get a 2.5 in Eng 101, that's it.  That's your grade.  You could possibly go back and retake the class, but you're live.  You're not pretending to be a student in preparation to be a student. 

One doesn't pretend to be a parent in order to prepare to be a parent.  No amount of playing with dolls will replicate the responsibilities of a parent. 

But I agree with you that you must go to school to be a good student, and you must be a parent to be a good parent.  





> You can't be good in self defense unless you practice self-defense


Ah, see, you lost me at "practice."  That's not the same thing.  





> and the quality time and training that you put into it will determine how well you are able to perform.


Errr...  yeah...  I agree that quality time and training are important, but you seem to be willfully ignoring the elephant in the room here.  Or maybe you just truly don't see it.  I don't know.


> There have been people who have not done cooking who are able to cook well.  There are people who have never flown planes, who have flown and landed planes in emergencies.  The important things between exceptions and training is that it's an exception and not a norm.


And there are people who have never trained in a martial art who have successfully defended themselves from a mugger, rapist or potential homicidal maniac.  I'm not sure what you're driving at here.  





> The "typical self defenser" trains movement not self defense.  This is evidence by not having sparring or using resistance appropriately. Train by doing.
> 
> If fighting and self-defense means that a person has to block and avoid punches and kicks, then training should include this.  Kicks and punches should be similar and as close to real punches and resistance as possible, without resulting in injuries that prevent training or cause permanent damage.  For example, Flight Simulators.
> 
> If you look at what people do to be good in something you'll see that they put quality time in training and learning.   But when it comes to self-defense many people short-cut their training and expect to be good at something that they don't spend time in actually training.   I have a student that only shows up for a sparring class and a regular class.  So she only gets 1 class of drilling kung fu techniques.  She gets down on herself that she's not fighting well in sparring class.  What she fails to understand is that she only does 1 class learning kung fu techniques which is 1 hour of week.  Sparring class is used to help students learn how to use during the regular classes.  So while she is getting the sparring in, she's not getting the other half which is learning the techniques.


I like where you're headed here, but you should distinguish between what you're doing and self defense.


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## Steve (Dec 15, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> They aren't my rules I'm not criminal.  They aren't rules, they are known as The Rituals Of Violence.
> 
> What sort of movement are you talking about?


Like most beginners, you attacked me wrong:


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## Paul_D (Dec 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> If you attack me like a criminal, will you move your face if you see me punching


And you are missing the point.  Criminals do not fight you.  They ask you the time then when you look at your watch sucker punch you (and keep punching and do not stop punching your you until you are no longer able to defend yourself), or they put a knife to your throat.  They don't punch you then stop and wait for you to have a turn.

So, to answer you question, if I attacked you like a criminal.  You wouldn't be given the opportunity to punch me.


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## Paul_D (Dec 15, 2016)

Steve said:


> Like most beginners, you attacked me wrong:


Why would you wait for a physically attack to begin before defending yourself?


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## drop bear (Dec 15, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> And you are missing the point.  Criminals do not fight you.  They ask you the time then when you look at your watch sucker punch you (and keep punching and do not stop punching your you until you are no longer able to defend yourself), or they put a knife to your throat.  They don't punch you then stop and wait for you to have a turn.
> 
> So, to answer you question, if I attacked you like a criminal.  You wouldn't be given the opportunity to punch me.



I don't wear a watch.  That would pretty much foil them right there.


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## drop bear (Dec 15, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> They aren't my rules I'm not criminal.  They aren't rules, they are known as The Rituals Of Violence.
> 
> What sort of movement are you talking about?




Ok. So a criminal comes up to me and asked for the time. And I of course know the commandments of robbing. And tell him to back off and create space. Now due to the tennants of theft he has to lunge at me with the overhand right. Which I block and punch him in the face.

At this point I shape up. And he shapes up. And we enter into a more traditional style of fight.Now here is the trick. No criminal has ever trained martial arts  and due to the requirements of scumbaggery he is now unable to deal with this shift in dynamics. So I have him in a position where I have the advantage. And am in a much safer position to beat him.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 15, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Always use an anatomically correct torso target.  Do not punch and kick in the air, and do not waste your time punching and kicking a simple bag...it has to look like a real target for proper conditioning.


How is the look so vital to conditioning?


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 15, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> Striking for the purposes of self defence is done pre-emptively.  Criminals do not tend to bob and weave or use fighting footwork during the interview stage which precedes a crime, nor during the distraction stage before they sucker punch or put a knife to your throat so they can rob/rape/kill you.
> 
> What you are talking about, and what the video you have posted relates to (hence its title) is street fighting which is illegal, as opposed to self-defence which is legal.  It is important to understand the difference, if only for the legal and financial consequences which can follow one but not the other.


Are you contending that once someone starts punching, there is no opportunity to counter-punch? Just because he doesn't stop, that doesn't mean there's no opening.


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## Steve (Dec 15, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> Why would you wait for a physically attack to begin before defending yourself?


That right there, folks, is called a "loaded question."  It's a type of informal, logical fallacy.  Just to impress my friend, Buka, the latin term for this specific fallacy is plurium interrogationum.


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## MI_martialist (Dec 15, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> How is the look so vital to conditioning?



It conditions you to fight a real looking person.  It also allows you to know what and how you are striking a target that is shaped like a person.  It is similar to the firing rates of the infantry in WW2 compared to Vietnam...


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## drop bear (Dec 15, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> It conditions you to fight a real looking person.  It also allows you to know what and how you are striking a target that is shaped like a person.  It is similar to the firing rates of the infantry in WW2 compared to Vietnam...



Thats right becuse you guys never use circles.


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## MI_martialist (Dec 15, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Thats right becuse you guys never use circles.



I don't even know what you mean by that.  I am literally confused.


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## drop bear (Dec 15, 2016)

Steve said:


> That right there, folks, is called a "loaded question."  It's a type of informal, logical fallacy.  Just to impress my friend, Buka, the latin term for this specific fallacy is plurium interrogationum.



But do you understand the scions of smiting.


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## drop bear (Dec 15, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> I don't even know what you mean by that.  I am literally confused.



It is a gun thing. Americans allways use man shaped targets. Pretty much everybody else uses circles.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 15, 2016)

Steve said:


> I don't know what the heck you're talking about with the tribal stuff.


You should do some research on it.  You will be surprised to see that the younger girls learn how to take care of children, from the parents who have children.  I think you would actually find it interesting. Here's something to get you started.
"_Young girls learn from a very young age to take care of their younger siblings. Babies are seen on the backs of girls as young as five years of age. From the time babies are able to walk, they are thrust into the realm of adult responsibilities. Youth learn from their parents and elders how to manage the homestead_." Source: Birth and Childhood rituals


Also here's a definition of training use this definition and the high school stuff will make sense: "_*Training* is teaching, or developing in oneself or others, any skills and knowledge that relate to specific useful competencies. Training has specific goals of improving one's capability, capacity, productivity and performance._"  Source: Training - Wikipedia

Why would this definition apply to Martial Arts and not school?

Here's the definition for practice. "repeated exercise in or performance of an activity or skill so as to acquire or maintain proficiency in it."  Why wouldn't this apply to self-defense training?  Do you not do techniques repeatedly so as to acquire or maintain proficiency in it?


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 15, 2016)

drop bear said:


> It is a gun thing. Americans allways use man shaped targets. Pretty much everybody else uses circles.



No we don't. As often as not, my targets are paper plates.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 15, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> Criminals do not fight you.


 You are right criminals do not fight you.















They just hide and corners and sucker punch people all day.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 16, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> It conditions you to fight a real looking person.  It also allows you to know what and how you are striking a target that is shaped like a person.  It is similar to the firing rates of the infantry in WW2 compared to Vietnam...


Assuming you'll also spar against a person, the shape of the bag you practice on (BOB vs. heavy bag) is probably not relevant from a psychological perspective. If you're only going to practice on a bag (no sparring partner), then that psychological difference is probably immaterial.


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## Paul_D (Dec 16, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I don't wear a watch.  That would pretty much foil them right there.


Clearly it was an example question, but it could also be a question about directions, or anything which distracts you. 

As you haven't posted a smiley with this comment to show it was intended to be a joke, then you are continuing (as in the to other thread) to be deliberately obtuse, and I don't come here  for that, if I wanted that I'd waste my to me on other MA blogs.

Fortunately we have an ignore button, so goodbye.


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## Paul_D (Dec 16, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> You are right criminals do not fight you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Man gets in fist fight."

You are talking about people getting into fist fights, which is a completely different conversation to the one I am having.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 16, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> "Man gets in fist fight."
> 
> You are talking about people getting into fist fights, which is a completely different conversation to the one I am having.


You stated that "criminals don't fight you" but they do fight you.  That's where assault and battery charges come in.  It's how women are abused.  Here's a home invasion.  He didn't use any of those distraction techniques that you speak of. "Hey what time is it" then sucker punch her.   He came directly at her.


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## MI_martialist (Dec 16, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Assuming you'll also spar against a person, the shape of the bag you practice on (BOB vs. heavy bag) is probably not relevant from a psychological perspective. If you're only going to practice on a bag (no sparring partner), then that psychological difference is probably immaterial.



I do elieve this is a thread about "self defense" and not about sparring.  The psychological difference is huge...read On Combat by Grossman, he speaks a lot to this idea.


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## drop bear (Dec 16, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> Clearly it was an example question, but it could also be a question about directions, or anything which distracts you.
> 
> As you haven't posted a smiley with this comment to show it was intended to be a joke, then you are continuing (as in the to other thread) to be deliberately obtuse, and I don't come here  for that, if I wanted that I'd waste my to me on other MA blogs.
> 
> Fortunately we have an ignore button, so goodbye.



You don,t seen to know much about criminal behavior.

The ask the time example was kind of silly. 

I have fist fought a lot of actual criminals. You get that in loss prevention.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 16, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> I do elieve this is a thread about "self defense" and not about sparring.  The psychological difference is huge...read On Combat by Grossman, he speaks a lot to this idea.


This is actually a thread about training for self-defense. In most cases, that includes sparring. Given a live target (sparring partner), the cognitive effect of the non-live target's shape (bag vs. BOB) will be greatly diminished. The primary effect of a simulated target's shape is that it gets the mind accustomed to acting upon what that shape is simulating. Since someone sparring is actually acting upon a person when sparring, it's likely that provides more of the cognitive effect than the simulation (BOB) would.

Now, there's one way the human-shaped target might still add to this psychological benefit, and that's if it's attacked with more power than the live target. That would help acclimate the student to delivering that kind of strike to a human-like target.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 16, 2016)

drop bear said:


> You don,t seen to know much about criminal behavior.
> 
> The ask the time example was kind of silly.
> 
> I have fist fought a lot of actual criminals. You get that in loss prevention.


I've heard reference to the distracting question many times, from different sources. I assume it's not entirely apocryphal, but I don't know that I've ever run into anyone who could reliably report an incident of it.

I do know several folks who ended up in a fight with someone who attacked them (or someone else). That one's certainly a real thing.


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## drop bear (Dec 16, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I've heard reference to the distracting question many times, from different sources. I assume it's not entirely apocryphal, but I don't know that I've ever run into anyone who could reliably report an incident of it.
> 
> I do know several folks who ended up in a fight with someone who attacked them (or someone else). That one's certainly a real thing.



A guy did it to me once. For some insane reason wanted to steal my glasses. I set an attack dog after him and he ran off. 

I have heard of significantly more nuanced approaches. There was an Aboriginal gang in Melbourne that would have a 10 year old kid pick a fight with you and then his cousins would rush in to defend him. You can get the same trick with girls.

There is the offer of the thing that you want in the back car park. 

And the Brazilian method where a bunch of people just walk up and mob you. 

So yeah there are plenty of methods. And most of them are better resolved by just giving up the money. 

But being able to knock mo fos out is still a viable talent to have even at the worst of times.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 17, 2016)

drop bear said:


> A guy did it to me once. For some insane reason wanted to steal my glasses. I set an attack dog after him and he ran off.
> 
> I have heard of significantly more nuanced approaches. There was an Aboriginal gang in Melbourne that would have a 10 year old kid pick a fight with you and then his cousins would rush in to defend him. You can get the same trick with girls.
> 
> ...


Steal your glasses?? Why the...what...I...


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 17, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I've heard reference to the distracting question many times, from different sources. I assume it's not entirely apocryphal, but I don't know that I've ever run into anyone who could reliably report an incident of it.
> 
> I do know several folks who ended up in a fight with someone who attacked them (or someone else). That one's certainly a real thing.


The use of distraction is often done when someone wants to steal something from you and get away with it.  People who are intent on bashing your face in don't care about creating distractions.


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## MI_martialist (Dec 17, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> This is actually a thread about training for self-defense. In most cases, that includes sparring. Given a live target (sparring partner), the cognitive effect of the non-live target's shape (bag vs. BOB) will be greatly diminished. The primary effect of a simulated target's shape is that it gets the mind accustomed to acting upon what that shape is simulating. Since someone sparring is actually acting upon a person when sparring, it's likely that provides more of the cognitive effect than the simulation (BOB) would.
> 
> Now, there's one way the human-shaped target might still add to this psychological benefit, and that's if it's attacked with more power than the live target. That would help acclimate the student to delivering that kind of strike to a human-like target.




Thank you for reiterating what I was saying.  Of course, along the same lines, you simply cannot take your pen and shove it in a "sparring partner's"  eye, or a knife to the brain, so it is a big help.

Also, if I may...the thread is titled "Practicing Self Defense for Beginners".


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 17, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Thank you for reiterating what I was saying.  Of course, along the same lines, you simply cannot take your pen and shove it in a "sparring partner's"  eye, or a knife to the brain, so it is a big help.
> 
> Also, if I may...the thread is titled "Practicing Self Defense for Beginners".



If you think you're likely to stick a knife in an opponents brain, you need to rethink your connection with reality...


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 17, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Thank you for reiterating what I was saying.  Of course, along the same lines, you simply cannot take your pen and shove it in a "sparring partner's"  eye, or a knife to the brain, so it is a big help.
> 
> Also, if I may...the thread is titled "Practicing Self Defense for Beginners".


Actually, per your original post on this, "it has to look like a real target for proper conditioning". My point was, and remains, that most of that conditioning happens during sparring, where your opponent is shaped rather like an actual human. Absent that interaction, the shape of your practice target would be more important.


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## drop bear (Dec 17, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Steal your glasses?? Why the...what...I...



On the pingas. They will try to steal anything.


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## drop bear (Dec 17, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> The use of distraction is often done when someone wants to steal something from you and get away with it.  People who are intent on bashing your face in don't care about creating distractions.



Brazil has some fascinating examples. Because it is so common.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 17, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Brazil has some fascinating examples. Because it is so common.


Damn.. They are like a pack of freaking Hyenas roaming through the herd.  If someone walked around with a shiny bag of loose crap or a bottle of clear urine they would steal that.  I knew they had problems but I didn't know it was like that.  They really got some social issues to workout. People should just walk around with paper shades, a shiny bag and a bottle of clear cold urine (you have to make it cold so that they will drink it as soon as possible).


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