# Ultimate Fighter 3



## scottcatchot

So, what did everyone thing of the kickoff of Ultimate Fighter 3? I enjoyed the Stephan Bonner fight. I like Bonner but was a little surprised at the unanimous decision. In the new series, does anyone have a favorite fighter yet? I hope to see the hearing impaired guy do well.


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## tshadowchaser

No favorite fighter yet but it looks like this could be a much more talented group than season 2.


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## Rich Parsons

scottcatchot said:
			
		

> So, what did everyone thing of the kickoff of Ultimate Fighter 3? I enjoyed the Stephan Bonner fight. I like Bonner but was a little surprised at the unanimous decision. In the new series, does anyone have a favorite fighter yet? I hope to see the hearing impaired guy do well.


 
No favorite fighter. But I do not like either of the coaches, so not sure if I am going to spend lots of timing watching this season. I might wait for a Spike TV (* Registered Trademark *) to do a Marathon and just tape it so I can fast forward through the BS and just watch the Fights of the guys who are trying to prove themselves.


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## MA-Caver

One of my room-mates was telling me about a Deaf guy who's in the ultimate fighting... we tried finding clips of him... apparently there aren't any that are released yet. If you know a link PM me or post it here... thanks. 
Still... it'll be cool to watch I guess... not much into the he-man-macho-supreme-mines-bigger-than-yours-testosterone-filled fight fests but :idunno: it *could* be entertaining. :uhyeah:


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## Eternal Beginner

Go Canada!!  Kalib Starnes did an outstanding job last night!

Looks like an interesting bunch of guys, I wonder if there will be Bible studies under Ken and Tito like there were with Rich and Matt?  Seems like a very different dynamic being set up with this group.


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## MJS

I thought the first episode was pretty good.  I'm looking forward to next week!  Hopefully it'll stay interesting.

Mike


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## crushing

I got a kick out of Dana saying that the season wasn't about the coaches, but about the fighters.  Then, the show went on to play up the hatred between the coaches.  What a coincidence that the two fighters that hate each other most are on this show!!!  Yeah, right.

Even without the challenges, there already seems to be more of an us v. them attitude between the teams.  I know it was only one show, but this bunch doesn't seem as buddy-buddy as UF2.  Hopefully that means we won't see the 'I can't hit my friend to hard' type fights that happened in season 2.

I had to also laugh at Ken Shamrock's strategy.  "We'll put our strongest against their weakest and work back from there."  Ummm, Ken.  That means eventually you are putting your weakest against their strongest.  Also, Shamrock bringing in the body-building nutritionalist instead of a grappling expert struck me as odd.  Even his fighters were commenting on this.  Oh well.  Hope it's a great season with some great fights.


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## elder999

I have to admit I like Tito Ortiz's style as a coach so far, though it remains to be seen how effective it is.....


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## Jade Tigress

elder999 said:
			
		

> I have to admit I like Tito Ortiz's style as a coach so far, though it remains to be seen how effective it is.....



Yeah, me too. I have not seen a lot of Ken Shamrock's personality and when I got a closer look at it in the first episode I have to say...not for me. He made some strange coaching choices and comes across as being highly egotistical.

I don't have a favorite fighter yet but did like the deaf guy. Seems like he's really focused on his *ultimate* goal.


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## scottcatchot

I have always had the impression that Tito was a big a$#hole and therefore I have not really liked him.  After watching the first episode and watchimg hism coaching style... I possible should have reserved judgement.. The verdict is still out. I also am a little surprised at Ken not bringing a grappling coach, maybe he thinks he can personallyn handle that :idunno:


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## Odin

crushing said:
			
		

> I had to also laugh at Ken Shamrock's strategy. "We'll put our strongest against their weakest and work back from there." Ummm, Ken. That means eventually you are putting your weakest against their strongest. Also, Shamrock bringing in the body-building nutritionalist instead of a grappling expert struck me as odd. Even his fighters were commenting on this. Oh well. Hope it's a great season with some great fights.


 
You know what bro i was thinking the same thing when he said that!lol

I liked Tito's line ''we're fighters man,if we were back in the caveman times we would be the providers'....dman skippy!


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## FearlessFreep

I still think it's all just a soap-opera-'reality-show' so 'tuff guys' can watch something without being too embarrased, but...enjoy


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## RoninPimp

Rory Singer is one to watch. A well rounded fighter he is.


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## DavidCC

without the challenges, how will they fill the air time? 2 choices: training, or antics.  I'm not optimistic about which way it will go.... which is why I set my Replay TV and FF to the good parts.


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## Andrew Green

I agree, I want to see them training, I want to see the coaching.  I don't want another 40 mins worth of "Ken and Tito hate each other"


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## RoninPimp

I feel the same way. I want to see them train and fight. Everything else is filler.


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## adictd2tkdgirl

can someone tell me when this on TV?


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## RoninPimp

Thursday at 10:00pm I believe.


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## jfarnsworth

My guess is that they will fill the episodes with training. Since they have to be seperated this gives them more chance for air time. I also must say that I've been a shamrock fan for a long time and don't know much about Ortiz. After seeing 1 episode I like Tito's way of coaching/training. He's not afraid to get in and roll with anyone there. Also, it was a good choice of his to bring a boxing and grappling coach in. As for Ken, I hope he does a good job but his picks _(like everyone else)_ were a little less to be desired.


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## Odin

No one seems to be giving the english fighters any credit....I wonder why?


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## mrhnau

Odin said:
			
		

> No one seems to be giving the english fighters any credit....I wonder why?



lack of exposure here? they never trained with any of the "big names" in the UFC perhaps and have no "star association"? other nationality fighters get recognition if they are good enough. if they do well, they will get some recognition. If they don't, they will fall back into obscurity, unless they are endeared like some of the past TUF losers have been. to be honest, I'm suprised how many old TUF fighters are fighting on TV now...


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## Odin

I'll throw this comment in the air.....but does anyone else here feel like the ufc is getting far too american?...I mean every fighter seems to be home grown at the moment, I only noticed this when i started watching Pride more and notice the difference.


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## Blindside

Odin said:
			
		

> I'll throw this comment in the air.....but does anyone else here feel like the ufc is getting far too american?...I mean every fighter seems to be home grown at the moment, I only noticed this when i started watching Pride more and notice the difference.


 
Language barriers probably make for bad television, but also I suspect these fighters had to try out somewhere in the US for a slot.  That alone would probably weed out alot of foreign applicants just based on travel costs.


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## FearlessFreep

One reason I like Pride is that you do get a much larger ethnic mix it seems.  A Japanese guy fighting a Russian guy, etc.., etc...

They also seem to carry that distinction into the ring.  You see characterics from different arts in the way they  hold their hands and move their feet.  UFC seems like too much of the same cookie-cutter approaches.  Variations on the same theme rather than true individual fighting style


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## crushing

scottcatchot said:
			
		

> I have always had the impression that Tito was a big a$#hole and therefore I have not really liked him. After watching the first episode and watchimg hism coaching style... I possible should have reserved judgement.. The verdict is still out. I also am a little surprised at Ken not bringing a grappling coach, maybe he thinks he can personallyn handle that :idunno:



I was thinking the same thing about Tito coming into TUF3.  Especially after seeing the clip of him with his middle fingers extended after defeating Shamrock.  Now, after the second episode I've got more respect for Tito and think the finger thing may have been more of a poor judgement thing at a very emotional moment.  Also, you've gotta wonder how much of the drama is made for TV.


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## crushing

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> One reason I like Pride is that you do get a much larger ethnic mix it seems. A Japanese guy fighting a Russian guy, etc.., etc...



What?!?!  UFC 58 - USA v. Canada, wasn't diverse enough for ya?


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## Rook

Well, the UFC has recruited both for its reality shows and its regular matches mostly from the other US NHB/MMA fighting promotions.  PRIDE has recruited individual fighters through its own promotions instead of other domestic ones.


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## Rich Parsons

Question:

1) I see that if you win your fight you are already in the semi finals. So does this mean that you do not have to fight a second time?

2) Why are team mates screwing with their own teammates? Way before the semi's.

3) Why was a deaf guy brought in with out an interpreter in the first place?


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## Marginal

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Question:
> 
> 1) I see that if you win your fight you are already in the semi finals. So does this mean that you do not have to fight a second time?
> 
> 2) Why are team mates screwing with their own teammates? Way before the semi's.
> 
> 3) Why was a deaf guy brought in with out an interpreter in the first place?


 
1) Yep. The goal was to prevent anyone from getting to the semifinals without fighting. 

2) They're idiots.

3) I'm betting that nobody thought of it, and he didn't ask.


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## Rich Parsons

Follow up Question to 1)

1a) So if you have to fight and you have already faught then what is your goal? To stay healthy and help your team. Right? Yet this is not a team sport or about the coach it about what an individual fighter can give on a specifi day. 

Personally if I had the choice I would prefer to be last to fight (* Not that I would qualify - hypothetically of course *).


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## Marginal

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Follow up Question to 1)
> 
> 1a) So if you have to fight and you have already faught then what is your goal? To stay healthy and help your team. Right?


 
Even then, there's a good chance the teams will end up unbalanced, and that teams will vanish once the semi's start. So helping the team only works as far as it helps advance your own training.


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## Rich Parsons

Marginal said:
			
		

> Even then, there's a good chance the teams will end up unbalanced, and that teams will vanish once the semi's start. So helping the team only works as far as it helps advance your own training.



I agree with that. But would it not be better to have a friendly partner until the semi's, instead of someone who is out to hurt you?

I know once you get into the ring one is out to hurt the other. But outside the ring their should be a shared respect of training and working together.


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## Marginal

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I agree with that. But would it not be better to have a friendly partner until the semi's, instead of someone who is out to hurt you?


 
Yep, but it seems like very few of the participants think further down the line. They always end up seeming surprised that they're fighting a teammate. Work with 'em, respect 'em, but a little detachment wouldn't hurt either.


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## FearlessFreep

Or at least don't try to 'hurt' them.

You know, every time I compete, I talk with my competition before and after the match.  I don't really know any of them or anything, just trying to be friendly and gave a good time.  Then when it's time, I'm trying to 'beat' them bu not trying to 'hurt' them, if that makes sense.

Once I sparred a guy and beat him...months later I happened to go to a Dojang to work on a different style of sparring.  It was where he trained, and he was better than me at this other style, and we got along great and he really helped me out in picking up some tricks and such

That's why I don't watch the show other than the actually matches when I can catch them.  Too many immature 'fighters' with chips on their shoulders and no sense of perspective, too much manufactured drama, not enough 'martial art' in the mixed martial arts they are doing.


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## scottcatchot

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> Too many immature 'fighters' with chips on their shoulders and no sense of perspective, too much manufactured drama, not enough 'martial art' in the mixed martial arts they are doing.


 
I have to agree. The whole stabbing the basketball was imature stupidity and most of the show seemed focused on that instead of the "martial side"


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## rutherford

scottcatchot said:
			
		

> I have to agree. The whole stabbing the basketball was imature stupidity and most of the show seemed focused on that instead of the "martial side"


 
And yet, the show made you happy to see him lose.  It was good Reality TV . . . which isn't saying much.


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## scottcatchot

rutherford said:
			
		

> And yet, the show made you happy to see him lose. It was good Reality TV . . . which isn't saying much.


 
Hmmm...good point, I was happy to see him lose. Oh no, I am being brainwashed and manipulated by the t.v. It must DIE, DIE, DIE.:mp5:


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## FearlessFreep

_  It was good Reality TV . . . which isn't saying much._

The whole things is just "Fear Factor" without the bugs.

Toss some scorpions into the octagon with them ,or make the floor tilt and pitch and, it may be worth while watching


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## DavidCC

Withouth the challenges, they would be forced to fill that air time with either more trainnig or more antics.  I guess they chose antics.

I was glad that stupid spoiled punk got beat, and beat in a really embarrassing way   "I'm bored and so I like to break stuff" OMG what an idiot.


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## mrhnau

DavidCC said:
			
		

> Withouth the challenges, they would be forced to fill that air time with either more trainnig or more antics.  I guess they chose antics.



they had antics in previous seasons... and always the alcohol  I'm kind of happy not seeing the challenges. I prefer seeing people fight and having the people in the finals have more than one fight. I guess you could work in the challenges by letting it decide who gets the choice... I'm curious to see how Tito will choose the next contestants.


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## Dronak

mrhnau said:
			
		

> I guess you could work in the challenges by letting it decide who gets the choice...



Isn't that what the challenges were for in the last two seasons?  Whichever team won the challenge got to pick the fighters for the next match.  I'm not completely sure why the challenges were dropped this time though.

I agree that everyone who gets into the semi-finals should have to fight to get there.  I think they could have kept the challenges and made sure that everyone fought to reach the finals by having the winners of each match go to the next round like they are now.  It was allowing the same person to fight multiple times that allowed some people to not fight at all.

The changes are making things a bit more interesting since it's different from last time.  The interaction, or lack thereof, between Tito and Ken is amusing at times, too.


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## Hand Sword

I like this version better. They are supposedly fighters, let them fight, losers go home.


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## green meanie

DavidCC said:
			
		

> Withouth the challenges, they would be forced to fill that air time with either more trainnig or more antics. I guess they chose antics.


 
I wish they would have went with training. It would have been a chance to pick up some new tips and tricks. The antics and the drama bore me to tears. And last nights fight was lame as hell. Can't believe I stayed up for _THAT_. For now on, until they weed them down to the final four, I'm setting the VCR to tape it and going to bed.


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## Hand Sword

Good idea! But, a VCR? TEEVO dude!


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## rutherford

I strongly agree that more training would be really nice.  As it is, there's barely a few glimpses of drills shown.  I'd like to see a lot more Coaching.

But, I disagree about last night's fight.  It was good to see the smarter guy studying the tactics of his opponent pre-fight and planning on working around them.  It was also nice to see him execute his plan, even if it meant there wasn't much of a contest.

See the previews for next week?  Ken doesn't show up for training?


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## scottcatchot

TEEVO or DVR has changed how I watch TV. I was uniompressed with lastnights fight big time.


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## green meanie

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> Good idea! But, a VCR? TEEVO dude!


 
Yeah, I know. I'm old school.


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## green meanie

rutherford said:
			
		

> See the previews for next week? Ken doesn't show up for training?


 
Yup. I'd be pissed. Should make for an interesting show...


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## 7starmantis

I was unimpressed as well. So many of these guys think they know it all and just wont listen to anyone, even someone like Ortiz or Shamrock. I just dont understand that mentality....ego.

7sm


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## Marvin

rutherford said:
			
		

> I strongly agree that more training would be really nice. As it is, there's barely a few glimpses of drills shown. I'd like to see a lot more Coaching.


A lot of people tune in only for the "drama" training methods and coaching are not "very cool" to the uninformed. I would prefer it to be all training and coaching before the fights, more entertaining for me and more stuff for me to steal and take back to my gym!! 

But that's not what sells xyience


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## scottcatchot

Marvin said:
			
		

> But that's not what sells xyience


 
:lol: that's funny.......but true


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## Dronak

True, without the challenges, they need to fill the air time with something else.  Apparently, as already noted, they chose antics over training.  The training would be more interesting to people who practice martial arts themselves, but I'm guessing it doesn't really make for exciting television in general.  The antics and such probably help keep the general audience interested, and if that's what gets better ratings, that's what they'll show.

7starmantis has a point that some of the guys seem to be set on doing what they want regardless of the help others try to give them.  The loser of last night's fight seemed to be one of them.  I can understand his view of not changing his normal game plan, but I think the others were just trying to get him to train for what happens if that game plan fails.  He didn't seem to go for it though.  *shrug*

Shamrock and Ortiz seem to have rather different training styles.  It looks like Ortiz really likes to drill his guys and constantly push them.  Shamrock seems to prefer an overall health view, giving them breaks to avoid over-training, and having a nutritionist-type person as an assistant coach.  (I noticed a bunch of the contestants questioned that move.)  The preview for next week said that Shamrock doesn't show up for training.  That's weird.  I'm wondering if it was intentional or not, and if it was, why did he think this would be better than holding a regular training session?


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## tshadowchaser

Last nights fight should have ended the first time the back was turned.

I also would much rather see some of the training and less of the nonsence these guy do


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## rutherford

Dronak said:
			
		

> Shamrock and Ortiz seem to have rather different training styles. It looks like Ortiz really likes to drill his guys and constantly push them. Shamrock seems to prefer an overall health view, giving them breaks to avoid over-training, and having a nutritionist-type person as an assistant coach. (I noticed a bunch of the contestants questioned that move.) The preview for next week said that Shamrock doesn't show up for training. That's weird. I'm wondering if it was intentional or not, and if it was, why did he think this would be better than holding a regular training session?


 
I'm wondering if it's another tantrum.  Maybe Ken will come back and say something like, "You guys don't take my coaching seriously, you don't listen to my ringside strategy.  You obviously don't want to win, so why should I put in the time to help you lose?"

I'm not one of the people who questions the nutritionalist.  I certainly wouldn't be doing the drinking that these guys are doing while getting ready for a fight, and I'm a heavy drinker.  I heard some folks complaining because the nutritionalist was a body builder, but that doesn't mean he only knows nutrition for body building.  And, we didn't see enough of his talk to have any idea because it wouldn't have been interesting for general television.

As to the Brit who lost the last fight, I really think he ran out of gas early - mental and physical.  tshadowchaser is right about the turned back, but the fight _didn't_ end there.  The Brit's gameplan could have still worked if he'd tried harder.  If you're gonna try to knock the other guy out with strikes, you gotta throw some!


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## green meanie

rutherford said:
			
		

> I'm wondering if it's another tantrum. Maybe Ken will come back and say something like, "You guys don't take my coaching seriously, you don't listen to my ringside strategy. You obviously don't want to win, so why should I put in the time to help you lose?"


 
That's what I'm wondering too. It definately wouldn't be the first time he threw a tantrum.



			
				rutherford said:
			
		

> As to the Brit who lost the last fight, I really think he ran out of gas early - mental and physical. tshadowchaser is right about the turned back, but the fight _didn't_ end there. The Brit's gameplan could have still worked if he'd tried harder. If you're gonna try to knock the other guy out with strikes, you gotta throw some!


 
I agree. He looked flat. I don't know if its from all the time he spent in the sauna or eating too much the night before or a little bit of both. Either way, I felt you could almost see where he quit and gave up his back just to have it be over.


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## Rich Parsons

green meanie said:
			
		

> That's what I'm wondering too. It definately wouldn't be the first time he threw a tantrum.



Yes and this is part of the reason why I do not like the man personally. 



			
				green meanie said:
			
		

> I agree. He looked flat. I don't know if its from all the time he spent in the sauna or eating too much the night before or a little bit of both. Either way, I felt you could almost see where he quit and gave up his back just to have it be over.



Not sure if he gave up, or went with what he knew? I have seen people who spar (* Point and some continuous *) under a set of rules where strikes the back are not allowed. So if you give up your back they cannot hit you. :idunno:

He kept talking about being a fighter and a striker. Not sure, just thinking off the top of my head on a Sunday Morning.


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## Henderson

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> I also would much rather see some of the training and less of the nonsence these guy do


 
Exactly.  If I wanted to see the "nonsense", I could watch any of the other 1,000 'reality' shows on TV.


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## Brian R. VanCise

Other than a few of them I am continually amazed by the low quality of fighters that they put on the show.  I guess they are trying to create interesting mismatches that definately have drauma.  The british gentleman last night had a very low skill set for someone being in the octagon.  Not that he could not strike but his ground game was woefully inadequate.  Hence the fight was an utter mismatch as the other guy's game was pretty good.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Rich Parsons

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Other than a few of them I am continually amazed by the low quality of fighters that they put on the show. I guess they are trying to create interesting mismatches that definately have drauma. The british gentleman last night had a very low skill set for someone being in the octagon. Not that he could not strike but his ground game was woefully inadequate. Hence the fight was an utter mismatch as the other guy's game was pretty good.
> 
> Brian R. VanCise
> www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com




He just did not know what he did not know.


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## Brian R. VanCise

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> He just did not know what he did not know.


 
Yes, that is definately true!  

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Rich Parsons

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Yes, that is definately true!
> 
> Brian R. VanCise
> www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com



I know where I am weak. I recognize it. I try to understand it, and stay away from it. 

Was it Pride or Ego or both that made it hard for him to listen to those who did try to help him?


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## rutherford

When he said something like, "I've been winning every fight.  Even the fights I lost - they were all due to getting caught in some *silly* submission."  

I thought the answer was clear.


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## Brian R. VanCise

His ego was just to big so that he would not listen to his fellow team mates!  Good lesson there, in that you may not see your weakness but someone else may be able to point it out to you.  Listening to other people can help you out in any aspect of your life.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## James Patrick

rutherford said:
			
		

> When he said something like, "I've been winning every fight. Even the fights I lost - they were all due to getting caught in some *silly* submission."
> 
> I thought the answer was clear.


 
Some people just aren't coachable. I didn't want him to lose, but I knew he was going to get rocked just because he didn't seem like he wanted to learn anything.

Hey, whats up with that one guy from Shamrocks team consulting the guy from the other team? That's kind of a team betrayal, no?


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## rutherford

James Patrick said:
			
		

> Hey, whats up with that one guy from Shamrocks team consulting the guy from the other team? That's kind of a team betrayal, no?


 
There's at least 2 groups that have formed alliances across teams.  Remember, the two guys who train under Randy Couture were at the beginning of the show.


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## scottcatchot

It is that Survivor mentality crossing over. They are there for themselves, not for the team.


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## crushing

scottcatchot said:
			
		

> It is that Survivor mentality crossing over. They are there for themselves, not for the team.



Which team?  Team Ortiz, Team Shamrock, or Team Dagger?


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## Rich Parsons

Before this season:

I had no respect for either coach as a person. 

Now into this season, I have even less respect for Ken Shamrock, who seems to be interested in living his old glory days in an almost drug induced haze. 

I also have developed some minor respect for Tito Ortiz. He admits he is playing mind games. He admits he is being an *******. He also admitted he did not do enough research and missed a guy that ended up on Shamrock's team. So he has plans to for the head game with him to pysch him out before he gets into the ring to make a mistake. He works he team even if I do not always agree with the methods. Now that being said, I still think he is a jerk, but the fact that he admits he is a jerk and also capable of making a mistake, means I respect him for those points.


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## scottcatchot

rich parsons said:
			
		

> I still think he is a jerk, but the fact that he admits he is a jerk and also capable of making a mistake, means I respect him for those points.


I agree, I have always disliked Tito, but he does seem to be attempting to be a good coach and working well with the guys. I guess He is human like the rest of us....


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## Brian R. VanCise

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Before this season:
> 
> I had no respect for either coach as a person.
> 
> Now into this season, I have even less respect for Ken Shamrock, who seems to be interested in living his old glory days in an almost drug induced haze.
> 
> I also have developed some minor respect for Tito Ortiz. He admits he is playing mind games. He admits he is being an *******. He also admitted he did not do enough research and missed a guy that ended up on Shamrock's team. So he has plans to for the head game with him to pysch him out before he gets into the ring to make a mistake. He works he team even if I do not always agree with the methods. Now that being said, I still think he is a jerk, but the fact that he admits he is a jerk and also capable of making a mistake, means I respect him for those points.


 
We are both in agreement on this Rich.  Shamrock continues to disapoint and while I do not like Tito, I am gaining some respect for him as a coach.  

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## rutherford

So, Ken made some interesting statements.  He told all his fighters that he wasn't going to work them hard in the gym, that if they didn't come to TUF with the skill and the heart to win, they weren't going to pick it up a week before they fight.  

Tito has the opposite strategy.  He's working his guys really hard, and you can hear him talk about what skills he thinks his guys still need to pick up to be well rounded fighters.

What do you think?

Seems to me that Ken's strategy isn't working, especially because his guys don't believe that it's a good strategy and have pretty low morale.


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## crushing

It is really tough to tell if it's the training strategy that is making the difference, or the coaches' eye for talent when picking the teams.  For example, Ortiz nearly laughed out loud when Shamrock picked Kristian so early.

I would like to think the training is making a difference, but that may be because I like how Ortiz is doing his training.

Speaking of Kristian, it took me a while to realize that it wasn't an asterisk or Cingular logo carved into the back of his head and that he was giving props to home with a fleur-de-lis.


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## James Patrick

rutherford said:
			
		

> So, Ken made some interesting statements. He told all his fighters that he wasn't going to work them hard in the gym, that if they didn't come to TUF with the skill and the heart to win, they weren't going to pick it up a week before they fight.
> 
> Tito has the opposite strategy. He's working his guys really hard, and you can hear him talk about what skills he thinks his guys still need to pick up to be well rounded fighters.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Seems to me that Ken's strategy isn't working, especially because his guys don't believe that it's a good strategy and have pretty low morale.


 
I think you gotta work hard if you expect to win. You can't just sit back and think "I either have or don't have the skills, and training won't make the difference." I think that training makes a huge difference, which is why Tito's guys are winning.


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## scottcatchot

crushing said:
			
		

> Speaking of Kristian, it took me a while to realize that it wasn't an asterisk or Cingular logo carved into the back of his head and that he was giving props to home with a fleur-de-lis.


 
Oh, is that what that was supposed eo be? I still had not figured it out.


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## scottcatchot

Ken is being very unprofessional and not giving his guys the benefit of his experience. He should be working them, showing them where they need to improve. These guys are here because they all want that contract, not everyone will get it but they could all gain some experience and learn from a "legend" and have ideas of what to work on if they don't win. Unfortunately all Kens team seems to be getting is blown off.


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## patroldawg27

That's because Ken beleives his won hype. I think he's too into the "World's Most Dangerous Man" and the Lion's Den being god's gift to MMA. It's just too bad that his team has to suffer for it.


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## tshadowchaser

I tend to agree whith what is being said by most, that ken has hurt his team by not training him to the best of his ability and knowledge. Then again maybe he figures they where picked for the show so they must have knowledge and will start doing something on there own.
Tito on the other hand I am learning to respect (something I never did befor) He is training his people in both the phyical and mental aspects of the game and seems to be doing a damn good job of it.
I wonder if Ken just did not have a clue as to what to do or just took the job to get his face in front of the world one more time


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## Rich Parsons

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> I tend to agree whith what is being said by most, that ken has hurt his team by not training him to the best of his ability and knowledge. Then again maybe he figures they where picked for the show so they must have knowledge and will start doing something on there own.
> Tito on the other hand I am learning to respect (something I never did befor) He is training his people in both the phyical and mental aspects of the game and seems to be doing a damn good job of it.
> I wonder if Ken just did not have a clue as to what to do or just took the job to get his face in front of the world one more time




What if this to the best of Ken's Ability? 

What if he got where he is just being able to take more pain then someone else and not really on teching methods or techniques, just being the one who can stand more pain or punishment?


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## green meanie

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> What if this to the best of Ken's Ability?
> 
> What if he got where he is just being able to take more pain then someone else and not really on teching methods or techniques, just being the one who can stand more pain or punishment?


 
Good question and an excellent point.


----------



## Marginal

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> What if this to the best of Ken's Ability?
> 
> What if he got where he is just being able to take more pain then someone else and not really on teching methods or techniques, just being the one who can stand more pain or punishment?


 
I think Ken's ablities as a coach and his abilities as a fighter are very different things. Meaning that Ken wasn't self-taught. The Lion's Den seemed to be more Bob's operation than it was ever really Ken's. Ken mainly helped with the funds via WWE contracts etc.


----------



## elder999

Marginal said:
			
		

> I think Ken's ablities as a coach and his abilities as a fighter are very different things.


 
_Isn't this true for everyone, though?_

I wondered when someone would get there-good point!


----------



## Dronak

Agreed, being able to do something well doesn't necessarily mean you can teach it well.  Teaching is its own skill.

I mainly know Shamrock through his previous WWE work.  I don't really know much about Ortiz except what I'm seeing here.  Ortiz does seem to be training his team harder than Shamrock is.  Shamrock's team didn't seem to be very happy with his training methods, but perhaps this is the only way he knows how to teach.  *shrug*  I was kind of hoping to see Shamrock's guys do well, or at least have the teams breaking even, but oh well.  It's still an interesting show to watch.


----------



## Rich Parsons

I was not able to see Thursday viewing, but I just saw the Saturday Viewing, and I got to say way to go Rory.


----------



## Lisa

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I was not able to see Thursday viewing, but I just saw the Saturday Viewing, and I got to say way to go Rory.



Agreed.  Good Job.


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## lonecoyote

I rushed home last night, thinking that I'd miss the beginning but at least catch the fight, I came through the door, grabbed a beverage, clicked on the tube, just in time to see a bunch of fake bs about some stupid letter and then Noah leaving. Gee I'm glad I didn't miss that. Dana White threw a fit about how they can't have outside contact with the world. Then How in the heck did he get that letter!? It was obviously unimportant. Why even deliver it? It's more than a little fishy. I'm not saying this thing is worked, yet, (some of the picks made me wonder, though) but this was irritating.


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## Marvin

I missed it, no fight this week?


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## Cruentus

Marvin said:
			
		

> I missed it, no fight this week?


 
You didn't miss much, bro. No fight this week, which sorta sucked. This is my favorite show on TV right now, and I watch it for the fights and the training, not so much the drama. So, with no fight, I was a little disappointed.


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## green meanie

Marvin said:
			
		

> I missed it, no fight this week?


 
LOL. I missed it too. Sounds like a lot of us did. Without a fight it isn't much of a show though.


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## crushing

Marvin said:
			
		

> I missed it, no fight this week?



With there not being a fight and very little training shown, even those of us that watched it, missed it.


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## Rich Parsons

Tulisan said:
			
		

> You didn't miss much, bro. No fight this week, which sorta sucked. This is my favorite show on TV right now, and I watch it for the fights and the training, not so much the drama. So, with no fight, I was a little disappointed.



If I had watched it, there might have been a fight, Where are there offices?

This is THE Ultimate Fighter 3, Not Real World X or House 4.5 or some other BS.

Dana needs to get his head out of his *** and understand what market he is targting and go after it. Do not go after a market that is nto interested in your product and your sponsors product.


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## Kempojujutsu

I would agree. I don't watch TUF 3 for the drama. Cut it out and show the fighters training and fighting. Who cares about some letter and a guy that wants to go home. Dana needs to wake up.


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## BallistikMike

And whats funny is if Noah left and a replacement came in without showing all the crap that went on....

The same people crabbing that they shouldn't have the B.S. would be screaming for it and wanting to know why.

There was no fight because someone -Noah left. A replacement needed to be found and then brought back into the "game" takes time.

I will agree... I was dissapointed at having no fight.


----------



## Rich Parsons

BallistikMike said:
			
		

> And whats funny is if Noah left and a replacement came in without showing all the crap that went on....
> 
> The same people crabbing that they shouldn't have the B.S. would be screaming for it and wanting to know why.
> 
> There was no fight because someone -Noah left. A replacement needed to be found and then brought back into the "game" takes time.
> 
> I will agree... I was dissapointed at having no fight.




I am confused.

I thought Noah had already faught and won. 

Why would that effect the existing fight list?

Once you win you are in the Semi Finals. 

Did I miss something?


----------



## Marginal

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I am confused.
> 
> I thought Noah had already faught and won.
> 
> Why would that effect the existing fight list?


 
Because a fighter was eliminated. Saves 'em from having to put on a fight to determine who gets eliminated.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Marginal said:
			
		

> Because a fighter was eliminated. Saves 'em from having to put on a fight to determine who gets eliminated.



I am still confused.

Did Noah already fight or not? Did I just imagine it?


----------



## tshadowchaser

because he left they have to replace him with ome one and yes he did fight and win  so whomever places him will fight in his place


----------



## crushing

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I am still confused.
> 
> Did Noah already fight or not? Did I just imagine it?



Noah beat the young punk that stabbed his basketball.  So Noah had already made it to the semis.


----------



## James Patrick

what i don't get is why they have to bring in someone else at all to replace noah. what team will he be on, team shamrocks? that seems kind of stupid.


----------



## BallistikMike

No Rich you are not confused he did fight. Yes he did win!! 

He then proceeded to quit.

Still confused?

Quitting is the same as losing a fight. So now team "Ortiz" is down a man. Is it a forfiet? Does team "Shamrock" now get to decide who fights?

Not only are they down a man. The are down a semi-finalist. It has the possibilty of being a huge swing as far as teams go.

My point was that if all this had happened and the "Drama" wasn't shown those that were complaining about would be screaming like little school girls what the heck happened.

Kinda a dammed if you do dammed if you dont. I think they did the best they could do with the hand they were dealt...

Try not to be so confused next time.


----------



## Cruentus

BallistikMike said:
			
		

> My point was that if all this had happened and the "Drama" wasn't shown those that were complaining about would be screaming like little school girls what the heck happened.


 
They could have shown all of that, and still had a fight. Most of us aren't deperate housewives who enjoy a good survivor episode with our fat free popcorn and white zinfindel. So, although it may not have mattered to you, not having a fight was a little disappointing for some of us.


----------



## BallistikMike

Read the entire thread next time and comprehend.

I also was dissapointed there was no fight as I stated earlier.

How are they going to have a fight when Noah quit?

Are they going to shorten the season by a week?

The person they bring back are they in the semis automatically?

I know you bunch of girls who are complaining would have been screaming if they didn't show the drama on WHY there would be no fight. 

Not having a fight = bad. 

Not having a fight and not showing why = Very Bad.

It was a no win situation for the show so they minimized the damage.


----------



## tshadowchaser

> The person they bring back are they in the semis automatically?


  yes the replace the idiot who left

I agree they could have shown the fight 
i watch to see them train and compet not ***** and argue at one another


----------



## lonecoyote

Well, I, for one, am not... "sniff"... crying ..."sniff"... like a little schoolgirl. WAAAAAH! You big meanie! You're right, I need the drama, just like on "Young and the Restless" I watch all the time! WAAH! I have to go now, cause I just received a letter that another thread thinks I am cheating on it, and I can't go on. Its so dramatic!


----------



## Rich Parsons

See my post in the Noah Thread: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=542034#post542034


----------



## Cruentus

BallistikMike said:
			
		

> Read the entire thread next time and comprehend.
> 
> ...
> 
> I know you bunch of girls who are complaining would have been screaming if they didn't show the drama on WHY there would be no fight.


 
Ohhh. I get it. Your smart, and everyone ELSE is stupid, and your the tough guy and everyone ELSE is a "bunch of girls." 

Got it. Thanks for playing.


----------



## Marginal

BallistikMike said:
			
		

> Kinda a dammed if you do dammed if you dont. I think they did the best they could do with the hand they were dealt...


 
Well, not really. No contact with outside world = Letters? (Never really got why that epitomized training to get a shot at fighting in the UFC anyway. It's not like successful fighters all shun TV etc. How else will they know to buy Xience and Right Guard?)


----------



## Cruentus

Marginal said:
			
		

> Well, not really. No contact with outside world = Letters? (Never really got why that epitomized training to get a shot at fighting in the UFC anyway. It's not like successful fighters all shun TV etc. How else will they know to buy Xience and Right Guard?)


 
Oh my gosh...I think we might agree on something! 

That does bring up a good question: if they were to have no contact with the outside world, then why was he able to recieve a letter like that? Especially with the way it was dramatized. Are other competitors recieving letters? :idunno:


----------



## lonecoyote

I thought this last episode was pretty good. Couple of things for discussion, if anyone's interested- Tait mentioned he did full contact stickfighting in Hermosa Beach. That means Dog brothers, right? Any word on did he study with them, attend a gathering? I also didn't really understand Dana saying his (Tait's) standup was horrible. He had a nice stiff jab that caught his opponent coming in a few times, and he was doing very well w/knees to the belly in the clinch, I didn't think that one knee was low at all.


----------

