# Dash Cam: Canton PD "Notification" Arrest & Officer Goes Berserk / Threatens



## Bob Hubbard (Jul 21, 2011)

Canton Ohio Dash Cam footage.
The material in question starts at about 6:45

What follows is horrific example of a police officer losing all  self-control, threatening to beat the female, threatening to beat the  driver and eventually saying he should have executed him "and wouldn't  have lost any sleep over it" that night.










Harless has since been placed on administrative leave while the incident is investigated, according to the Canton Repository.

Even the Canton Police Chief criticized his behavior.

I think its important for citizens to understand that  the behavior demonstrated on the video is wholly unacceptable, and it  violates many of our rules, our regulations and standards we demand of  our officers, Chief Dean McKimm said Thursday.​ What's even more chilling is that Harless reacted that way knowing he was being videotaped by his own dash cam.​


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## MJS (Jul 21, 2011)

If we're lucky these 2 cops will be fired.  This is a perfect example of 2 people that should not be cops.  Given the fact that there were 2 officers, you'd think one would talk to the female while the other is dealing with the driver.  Yes, I understand that traffic stops are dangerous, and going on what is said in the clip, this may not be the greatest area, but you have to be professional.  I've been stopped a few times at night, and each time, I was asked if I had any weapons in the car, to which I said no.  

I think the biggest problem here, is that this was never established from the beginning.  Had he asked the driver the necessary questions, he may've established a weapon was in the car.  But he was more concerned with going thru the car.  I'd imagine its protocol to remove all people from the car before a search, no?


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## seasoned (Jul 21, 2011)

I watched the video twice, and got a sick feeling of what could have happened. I'm not sure where the drivers hands were, but I am sure he wasn't holding that permit in his hand all night. At some point he had to have reached into his pocket to get it. losing track of peoples hands can get an officer into big trouble under the circumstances shown in the video. This is the stuff training tapes are made of. Nuff said............


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## Stealthy (Jul 22, 2011)

So these are the people we are supposed to trust?

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, police are part of the problem *not* the solution.


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## MJS (Jul 22, 2011)

Speaking for myself only, but I dont want to see this thread turn into some cop bashing thread.  I grew up in a LE family and my job today consists of working with them, in addition to having many close friends who're LEOs/COs, etc, so I do have a respect for them, and IMO, I dont think that the 'bad cop' vids that're out there, should be the platform for how every LEO in the world is.  

I dont know the rules/regs of this PD, nor do I know how long each officer in the clip has been on the job.  From an outsider looking in though, this doesnt cast too good of a light on that particular PD.


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## Archangel M (Jul 22, 2011)

Was anybody struck, shot, tasered, clubbed, etc? No.

Was this cop over the top and wrong with his rant? Yes.

Is all the head hunting for a cops termination absent any background knowledge of the stop or this particular officers disciplinary history presumptuous? Yes.

If this is an example of how he normally operates perhaps termination is warranted. If not, then maybe some unpaid suspension.


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## Sukerkin (Jul 22, 2011)

From a British perspective, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, Angel. 

Just one incident of that kind without some form of demonstrable extreme provocation should be a career ending incident.  We, the voting public, do not want officers who do not have superhuman control of their emotions and behaviour when they are on duty.

It's not fair on the individual, I know, but letting Little Hitlers represent the law is just the thin end of the wedge.

That said, as you noted, some of the wording makes me ponder the background to this.  It doesn't sound like the Officer just decided to take a instant dislike to these poeple and go 'off on one'.


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## MJS (Jul 22, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> Was anybody struck, shot, tasered, clubbed, etc? No.



Given his actions and temper, I'm surprised that it didn't get to that point.  



> Was this cop over the top and wrong with his rant? Yes.



Agree.



> Is all the head hunting for a cops termination absent any background knowledge of the stop or this particular officers disciplinary history presumptuous? Yes.
> 
> If this is an example of how he normally operates perhaps termination is warranted. If not, then maybe some unpaid suspension.



Going on the video only, we can assume that the area is a known problem area, ie: drugs, prostitution, gangs, etc.  We can assume they thought the guy was trying to pick up a prostitute.  We can assume that the female was a prostitute or former prostitute.  That being said, we can assume this was a justified stop.

No, I dont know this officers track record, ie: does he have any prior complaints filed against him, so perhaps it was a bit harsh for me to call for him to be fired.  OTOH, officers like this are IMO, a serious liability.  Its unlikely that unless someone files a complaint, that this guys supervisors are aware of his actions, but considering we have quite a bit of unprofessional behavior on tape, the least this guy should get is a week or two w/o pay.  

Yes, I understand there is a 'brotherhood' amongst LEOs, but personally, if I were a LEO, I wouldn't want to work with a guy like this.  This guy has zero self control, a huge ego, and if presented with a similar situation, just may follow thru with his words, and blow someone away.  

Again, I'm not anti cop, but I'm also not afraid to call a spade a spade.


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## jks9199 (Jul 22, 2011)

I have not spent the 20 minutes or so to watch the whole video, but I have read a fair amount of commentary about it so far.  My opinions are very tentative, therefore.

Was the officer's conduct unprofessional?  It certainly seems so!

But there is a difference between words and action.  I suspect we've all had a though cross our minds along the lines of "the next person who pisses me off is going to get it" or "I could just walk down this aisle, laying waste to everyone around me."  I'll admit that I've had thoughts like that.  I've even, in private, given voice to them.  But I haven't carried any of those thoughts out.  

Just about every agency (nearly every squad) has someone who's got a knack for pissing people off and can't manage to find that place of dealing with the public as if they are actually human as a rule.   Some of those guys are great cops, so long as they've got someone to sort of run interference for them.  Others?  In a perfect world, they'd be discovered and dealt with (either re-trained, or sent packing) by the end of field training -- but sometimes, you just can't tell till the person is really on their own.  Sometimes, they have to be on their own for a while for the dumbassery to show.  And sometimes, it's a reaction to stressors and other issues.  I know I've caught myself being shorter with people sometimes due to stuff I'm dealing with from work that wasn't their fault.  So, before I condemn this guy and say he needs to be fired, I'm going to have to first, watch the video, and second, know a lot more.


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## Archangel M (Jul 22, 2011)

"Fair punishment" rarely enters into the equation when it comes to Leo's. If superhuman...zero mistake or never a "bad day" people is what you honestly expect, you are going to be sorely disappointed. This video in and of itself is a suspension at the least with termination possible depending on record. And even that record needs to be looked at closely. A cop with no disciplinary record at all is probably a do nothing slug.


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## jks9199 (Jul 22, 2011)

OK, watching the video as I type.  Some tactical issues I don't like.  We just crossed 100 LODDs, according to the Officer Down Memorial Page; we don't need to give away opportunities for more.  Not tearing into them here.

Conduct was absolutely unprofessional, and unsafe.  He thought he had a prostitution case (I'd say he did have one, incidentally, based on the circumstantial case in the video), and never bothered to identify everyone.  I don't know what's going to happen with the apparent arrest.  I also think this was the actions of a couple of cops who were suddenly pissed off and scared because they essentially got caught with their pants down. 

However, some of it is also being interpreted colorfully, I think.  Neither officer stated an intent or desire to shoot the driver.  They essentially said that, through the failure to advise the officers promptly of the gun, a scenario can easily occur where the gun is suddenly discovered, and the driver being shot.  Yes, they stated it very strongly, and in menacing way.  While it may not have been the cleanest shooting -- it could have easily led to a defensible shooting.  I've said similiar things to people ("If you had pulled that out of your pants, I'd have been pointing a real gun at you, and if you had pointed it my way -- I'd have shot you." talking to a kid about a BB-gun, for example.)   The comment about giving some lumps to the woman was real bad -- but it may reflect the nature of the community as much as anything else.  You do sometimes have to speak in language that folks will understand...

All in all... not good.  But far from horrible, either.  My guess is that someone will be getting some time off, refresher training, and maybe even anger management assessment.  In short, a real bad hit in his personnel file.  But I wouldn't expect either cop to be fired unless there are deeper problems.


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## Archangel M (Jul 22, 2011)

Depending on the states pistol permit laws, I think the gun owners permit needs to be reconsidered if he routinely carries it to defend himself while trolling the crack head district in search of hookers. If indeed that is the case.


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## jks9199 (Jul 22, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> Depending on the states pistol permit laws, I think the gun owners permit needs to be reconsidered if he routinely carries it to defend himself while trolling the crack head district in search of hookers. If indeed that is the case.


Absolutely.  That's a whole different question.  His "explanations" ring rather hollow, to me.  And they changed as the encounter went on.

I kind of doubt that the charges will stick in full.  The officers's actions have jeopardized the case, I think.  The driver has a lot of evidence that they never really presented him much of an opportunity to advise him.  I have heard that there's another video floating around from the second officer; that'd be interesting to see.  I'd like to know what effort the driver made to advise that officer that he was armed while he searched the car.


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## Grenadier (Jul 23, 2011)

I have a lot of mixed feelings on this video.

There are lots of mistakes on the LEO's part.  

The unprofessional behavior is certainly a huge issue here.  Any time I've been stopped by law enforcement personnel (for checkpoints, or yes, even in a couple of traffic situations), they've always given me a chance to inform them at the first opportunity, regarding lawful concealed carry.  This has been true in several states.  

Even in other cases, where someone may be significantly less-wholesome than I am (heh), they're going to give you a bit of time as soon as possible, to inform them.   

Now, I am not a law enforcement officer, but even here, I question the wisdom of searching a vehicle with someone inside it...

After having watched the whole video, I can't quite call this a threat against the driver.  Unprofessional, certainly, especially where he starts screaming about how he *could* have put 10 .40 caliber bullets into him, but at no point in the video did he say that he was going to put 10 .40 caliber bullets into him.  

Some of the people making comments about this video on other forums haven't quite been correct when they post what they thought the officer said.  

This does not excuse what he said, though.  

Now, does this mean that the driver is a saint and angel?  Of course not.  He was being rather foolish driving around in an area where it's known to be laden with hookers and pimps.  This whole mess could have been avoided, had he exercised a bit of common sense.  

There's an old adage, of "those who go looking for trouble, usually find it."


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 29, 2011)

*Second Video Emerges Of Hot-Tempered Canton Police Officer
Video once again shows Daniel Harless threatening to kill citizen*
http://www.pixiq.com/article/second-video-emerges-of-hot-tempered-canton-police-officer



> Here is just a small sample of what Harless told the man he pulled over.
> "Do not move a muscle or I will put you in the grave."
> "I&#8217;ll shoot you in the face and I&#8217;ll go to sleep tonight."



I only listened to part of this. At one point someone, I assume Harless, is swearing up a storm sounding quite put out. As the profanitys and threats pour out, another cop walks casually across the screen, in no hurry, showing no sign of distress.  This would suggest to me that there was no danger to Harless or any other officers.
So, what is the need to swear and yell?  
Everything I caught looked to take place off camera, so no idea what was going on, but the absence of haste on the wandering cop suggests it wasn't a big deal.


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## Stealthy (Jul 30, 2011)

http://www.pixiq.com/article/citizen-video-captures

The really good dash cams always seem to go missing.


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## Tez3 (Jul 30, 2011)

Stealthy said:


> http://www.pixiq.com/article/citizen-video-captures
> 
> The really good dash cams always seem to go missing.



I'm guessing from your posts you don't like police officers full stop, none of them, anywhere.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 30, 2011)

Stealthy said:


> http://www.pixiq.com/article/citizen-video-captures
> 
> The really good dash cams always seem to go missing.



Different issue though.


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## Stealthy (Jul 31, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> I'm guessing from your posts you don't like police officers full stop, none of them, anywhere.



"you don't like" is indicative of an active personal aversion which is indicative of a very base mind, I neither like nor dislike police, I really don't care about them either way.

I do however see a problem with the general sheepish behaviour of the majority of society due to the blind acceptance that police always know best and can magically tell who the bad guys are. Most people are stricken by fear and dare not speak out against in-justice when it surfaces.

While you are not really asking what I believe and you probably don't really care what I believe, since I'm in the mood I shall tell you. I believe those that are not stricken by fear have a responsibility to speak up in an effort to help curtail the dangerous "above the law" and "I am always right" attitudes which can be so damaging to innocent people caught up in the middle of the war between Police and criminals.

The problem innocent civilians face is that real criminals take active steps to protect themselves from prosecution and police need to work very hard to pin them down whereas the majority of society rely on the foolish blind faith that because they are innocent they will saved from in-justice when in reality it merely leaves them more vulnerable. With innocent civilians naiveity compounded by the efforts needed to pin down real criminals, for the most part real criminals evade justice while the innocent are lambs to the slaughter.


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## seasoned (Jul 31, 2011)

19 posts later and the bottom line is, officer safety first, next, if you have a license for anything, know the law pertaining to that license. "I didn't see the stop sign", will not grant you a free pass. An officer telling you to shut up is an order to obey. Having a loaded firearm on your person and not telling them over the order to shut up is *stupid*. Stupid anything, can get you, or someone else hurt. The thing that frost me is the fact, there are people carrying guns around, that don't have a clue how, when, and where to use that firearm. Officers are people and people make mistakes. I am not condoning this in any way, but the officers have a job to do, and when stopped for what ever, help them do their job by you helping them to feel as safe as possible. Points back to first sentence, officer safety first. This my friend is as much you're job as it is theirs. Officers screwed up on this stop and acted unprofessional "yes", lessons to be learned from this, "double yes".


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## Archangel M (Jul 31, 2011)

I find the tendency to make sweeping statements about law enforcement based on one video clip of one officer out of thousands..on one call out of hundreds of thousands problematic. If it were race or religion we were discussing instead of profession I wonder what the tone would be?


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 31, 2011)

I've got no problem with a professional law enforcement officer taking reasonable legal precautions for his or her own safety.

See the other video where the officer was polite and professional in the face of someone being a bit of a jerk in a carry situation.

Where I have a problem is with a hot heated bully, over reacting, throwing their "authority" around like a little Cartman, and making very unprofessional threats.

This *** hat is a "Cartman".

He needs a new profession.


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## Tez3 (Jul 31, 2011)

Stealthy said:


> "you don't like" is indicative of an active personal aversion which is indicative of a very base mind, I neither like nor dislike police, I really don't care about them either way.
> 
> I do however see a problem with the general sheepish behaviour of the majority of society due to the blind acceptance that police always know best and can magically tell who the bad guys are. Most people are stricken by fear and dare not speak out against in-justice when it surfaces.
> 
> ...




You are correct. I don't care. Tarring everyone with the same brush doesn't interest me, nor does an attitude that you know better than everyone else, 'innocent, naive' public and 'big bad cops and robbers', pull the other one sunshine.


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## Tez3 (Jul 31, 2011)

Stealthy said:


> "you don't like" is indicative of an active personal aversion which is indicative of a very base mind, I neither like nor dislike police, I really don't care about them either way.
> 
> I do however see a problem with the general sheepish behaviour of the majority of society due to the blind acceptance that police always know best and can magically tell who the bad guys are. Most people are stricken by fear and dare not speak out against in-justice when it surfaces.
> 
> ...




Double post lol, it wasn't interesting enough to warrent that!


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## Brian King (Jul 31, 2011)

Bob,
The second video is of a different incident. Reading between the lines the officer made a stop, had a car full of people and while interviewing a passenger (drives position unoccupied door open and one subject (the driver) being escorted off screen in cuffs) saw a gun on the floor by the feet of one of the vehicles passengers. LOL this will usually raise the level of interest on the part of the officers involved. You can hear it in the officers voice as he asked dispatch to send another car as he has a gun in a vehicle full of people. As he is calling in one of the suspects moves prompting a forceful "don't move don't even fart wrong or something like that. You have an officer now having to watch the unsecured weapon that is very near a multiple people )"don't either of you move", while watching all of the people AND the neighborhood around them. Knowing that people who carry one weapon usually have more than one on them, and have shown a propensity for and perhaps a willingness to use weapons induces extreme caution and already having made an arrest of at least one vehicle occupant makes this an extremely dangerous situation. When dealing with idiots you often have to repeat several times in a language that they will understand that you will use force if need to. Using direct and personal language conveys not only the certainly that the office will use force but lets the suspect know that the force will be used on them. Watching the video you see the car bounce a bit and I assume it is as the one of the suspects nearest the gun is pulled from the vehicle, you hear the office say "give me a hand with this guy Joe" to another officer who hurries across the screen to the officers aid. This implies that the suspect is resisting. You have an officer asking for help, multiple armed resisting subjects. Use of force is justified. The officer you see not in a hurry has already seen multiple officers on the resisting subject (off camera) who is likely now in cuffs and disarmed. In fact you see an officer come into the screen with the firearm and lay it on the hood of the patrol car. 

I have no problem with the video.

The officer's use of words would offend my grandmother (RIP) but not most felons who understand it. The officer is working in a very high crime area (not too many departments have seasoned officers riding together unless the area routinely calls for multiple eyes and 'guns' on stops. He seems to have a nose for picking out those that do not belong, are armed and breaking the law. Seems like a good street cop that needs to work on presentation. For his own health he needs to help in learning how not to personalize the idiots idiocy, and really needs to work on his professional comportment and letting go of upsets. No one is perfect and all can constantly improve. It is far easier teaching a good street cop how to cope than trying to teach a milk toast how to become a good street cop. 

Regards
Brian King


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 31, 2011)

Ahh, that perspective thing.   I'll accept the bits of egg wash.:sp62:


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## Brian King (Jul 31, 2011)

No need for eggs or penalty box Bob, in the first video the office was a jerk. No need to be such a jerk especially when the subject is cuffed and in the car. It is a temptation to lecture and it is a method of dealing with stress and adrenaline dumps but it is not a healthy release for the officer nor professional. In fact as civilians we have to watch getting blabber mouth (talking too much) when dealing with officers LOL they can only take notes so fast and we can talk ourselves into trouble. 

Regards
Brian King


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 26, 2011)

This nominee for "Law Enforcement Officer of the Year" in the asshat category is at it again.

Canton Police Officer Daniel Harless scored a hat trick Thursday when  a third dash cam video emerged showing him threatening to kill a  citizen during a traffic stop.
 The threats begin at 4:40 in the video where he eventually  tells a citizen, "If you scratch you balls wrong, I&#8217;m going to pull my  gun and I am going to shoot you.&#8221;


http://www.pixiq.com/article/canton-cop-threatens-to-kill-citizen-in-third-dash-cam-video

Here are some statements from the internal affairs report obtained by Canton Rep.
&#8220;Officer Harless&#8217; conduct ... has brought disrepute upon  himself and the Canton Police Department,&#8221; concludes a report by the  internal affairs division, which the Law Department released to The  Repository on Wednesday following a public records request.
 &#8220;The volatile attitude that Officer Harless displays (during the  traffic top) ... has gained negative national media attention towards  these officers and the Canton Police Department,&#8221; the report adds.
 &#8220;The Canton Police Department&#8217;s operation and efficiency has been  impaired due to negative phone calls and emails that have been fielded  by its members (regarding the case),&#8221; the report says.​ Harless will face a hearing on September 7 that will determine his fate.

If past investigations are indicative of the trend in Canton, it'll involve sitting in a corner and holding the wrist that was just slapped.


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## JohnEdward (Aug 26, 2011)

I would never want to be a cop in Canton Ohio, and work in the area Harless does. I do see Harless's situation. I understand why he behaved they way he did. He isn't not giving traffic tickets to speeders in high end neighborhoods. From both videos he is dealing with criminals in a high crime area. Criminals, druggies, etc. are stupid. What is this guy doing carrying a concealed weapon in a car with a pimp and a prostitute?  Think about it, that is pretty stupid. The "john" the driver probably isn't new to hiring a street prostitute. You have to look at the whole picture. Also. I agree you have to talk to low lives and handle them in a certain way, in their language, in a way their world works so they understand you, and will respond and respect you. You can't let them think they have control or you are controllable. Low life criminals  do play games, they do lie and are unpredictable and dangerously stupid, they don't want to get caught.    Harless does tell the prostitute he will give her lumps, he is speaking to her in a way she is accustom to. And he does that during the whole incident. He is clearly upset that a "john" who has in his car both the pimp and the prostitute carrying a legal conceal weapon, and rightfully so. Why is the "john", the driver, have a gun while picking up criminals? Did the pimp and the prostitute know he had a concealed gun? What was the intention of a man hiring a street prostitute in a bad part of town leaving the house with a gun?  Who allows the pimp as well in the car.   That is stupid. If Harless didn't stop them, would he have come across any of them later shot to death?   Again Harless isn't dealing with a stressed out soccer Mom running late to her kids game who broke the speed limit by 5 miles an hour in they best part of town. Harless is in a whole different and more dangerous stupid world, a world I won't be caught dead in. I don't admonish Harless, or see him as an SOB out of control, unless he acted that way to the example of a soccer Mom speeding in the good part of town. Now I could be wrong and Harless does work in a low crime area, and that changes everything.  Second thought maybe not. Unless his trying to keep scum out of a good place to live. It is a hard call.


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## JohnEdward (Aug 26, 2011)

Now if Harless was a TSA agent or a flight attendant....ship his butt off to making license plates. :lol2:


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## Mark L (Aug 26, 2011)

seasoned said:


> 19 posts later and the bottom line is, officer safety first, next, if you have a license for anything, know the law pertaining to that license. "I didn't see the stop sign", will not grant you a free pass. An officer telling you to shut up is an order to obey. Having a loaded firearm on your person and not telling them over the order to shut up is *stupid*. Stupid anything, can get you, or someone else hurt. The thing that frost me is the fact, there are people carrying guns around, that don't have a clue how, when, and where to use that firearm. Officers are people and people make mistakes. I am not condoning this in any way, but the officers have a job to do, and when stopped for what ever, help them do their job by you helping them to feel as safe as possible. Points back to first sentence, officer safety first. This my friend is as much you're job as it is theirs. Officers screwed up on this stop and acted unprofessional "yes", lessons to be learned from this, "double yes".


I disagree. Officer safety is the responsibility of the Officer, protecting our rights as citizens to not suffer this kind of abuse is as much our job as it is theirs.


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## JohnEdward (Aug 26, 2011)

I have another thought, I am willing to bet the "john" needed to go through the experience with Harless, to re-think his stupid behavior.  I am betting the drive got carried a gun around with him because he frequently engaged in criminal activity, and thought by getting a legal permit he could carry a gun for that purpose legally.  Just because you have a concealed weapon's permit, it is doesn't mean you can be irresponsible, reckless or stupid. The driver must have missed that day in the course.  My issue how do you not issue conceal carry permits to jackwagons and criminals (those not caught) like the driver. Really, that was a real stupid thing to be in a car with a gun, prostitute and a pimp.  Again with Harless your environment dictates your behavior, in both instances on video Harless dealing people who have adopted criminal behavior and lifestyles. Who speak and live the street.  I can't judge him until I walk in his shoes. Again Harless isn't TSA taking to passengers that way. I am reserving judgement on Harless. I hope he scared straight  that "john" because sadly that what it takes for some people to stop doing stupid things, or deadly things.


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## MA-Caver (Aug 26, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> Neither officer stated an intent or _desire_ to shoot the driver.


 At 8:21 of the video the cop said: "Right now, the **** you just pulled I could blast you right in the mouth" , 8:51 "I am so close to caving in your goddamned head", 9:07 Do you want me to pull mine and stick it to your head?", 13:30 "I tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun, I shoulda taken two steps back, pulled my glock 40, and just put ten bullets in your *** and let you drop.", 13:53 (referring to the other officer) "And he would've been a nice witness as I executed you, because you're stupid.".  So my question is that while it's not a direct threat does that negate the potential of an implied threat? The man is handcuffed (hands in the rear as SOP calls for) and in the backseat of the cruiser and his own weapon is on the trunk of his car. Someone (cop or not) angrily shouting at you and making implied "would, could, should've" threats... while basically defenseless is a pretty scary situation. 
Granted the guy was lying out of his *** about being in the area and why he was with those two people. Harless recognized the woman and knew her vocation. The guy simply was trying to get out of a illegal solicitation of prostitution charge (or however it's worded). Thus I agree he was rightfully detained. As noted it was stupid to obey the "shut-up" command given by the other officer and clearly and loudly state that he had a CWP and was armed. 
Still the aggravated officer was unable it seems to get himself under control and verbally abused the "suspect". 
I will also agree that sometimes you have to "speak their language", cursing, and being aggressive to ensure that there is no loss of control of the "situation" but not of one's self. 
I do appreciate that the officers were hyped up/high alert given the area they were in. (Street) prostitutes aren't known for working nice areas of town in any city. 
The guy was wrong for not asserting himself to ensure the officers were notified quickly of his CWP and armed status, disobeying the command to silence. 
As to why he was armed in a bad neighborhood and consorting with criminals... well, common sense says better to be armed than unarmed when in a potentially dangerous area. But common sense says much better altogether NOT to be in those areas, particularly after dark. 



Bob Hubbard said:


> He needs a new profession.


And pray tell what profession would that be? Hopefully you're not thinking anything involving "public relations."



Brian King said:


> The officer's use of words would offend my grandmother (RIP) but not  most felons who understand it. The officer is working in a very high  crime area (not too many departments have seasoned officers riding  together unless the area routinely calls for multiple eyes and 'guns' on  stops. He seems to have a nose for picking out those that do not  belong, are armed and breaking the law. Seems like a good street cop  that needs to work on presentation. For his own health he needs to help  in learning how not to personalize the idiots idiocy, and really needs  to work on his professional comportment and letting go of upsets. No one  is perfect and all can constantly improve. It is far easier teaching a  good street cop how to cope than trying to teach a milk toast how to  become a good street cop.
> Regards
> Brian King


Agreed. Just sad that the video went viral and casts a very bad light on a lot of good cops. 



JohnEdward said:


> I would never want  to be a cop in Canton Ohio, and work in the area Harless does. I do see  Harless's situation. I understand why he behaved they way he did. He  isn't not giving traffic tickets to speeders in high end neighborhoods.  From both videos he is dealing with criminals in a high crime area.  Criminals, druggies, etc. are stupid. What is this guy doing carrying a  concealed weapon in a car with a pimp and a prostitute?  Think about it,  that is pretty stupid. The "john" the driver probably isn't new to  hiring a street prostitute. You have to look at the whole picture. Also.  I agree you have to talk to low lives and handle them in a certain way,  in their language, in a way their world works so they understand you,  and will respond and respect you. You can't let them think they have  control or you are controllable. Low life criminals  do play games, they  do lie and are unpredictable and dangerously stupid, they don't want to  get caught.    Harless does tell the prostitute he will give her lumps,  he is speaking to her in a way she is accustom to. And he does that  during the whole incident. He is clearly upset that a "john" who has in  his car both the pimp and the prostitute carrying a legal conceal  weapon, and rightfully so. Why is the "john", the driver, have a gun  while picking up criminals? Did the pimp and the prostitute know he had a  concealed gun? What was the intention of a man hiring a street  prostitute in a bad part of town leaving the house with a gun?  Who  allows the pimp as well in the car.   That is stupid. If Harless didn't  stop them, would he have come across any of them later shot to death?    Again Harless isn't dealing with a stressed out soccer Mom running late  to her kids game who broke the speed limit by 5 miles an hour in they  best part of town. Harless is in a whole different and more dangerous  stupid world, a world I won't be caught dead in. I don't admonish  Harless, or see him as an SOB out of control, unless he acted that way  to the example of a soccer Mom speeding in the good part of town. Now I  could be wrong and Harless does work in a low crime area, and that  changes everything.  Second thought maybe not. Unless his trying to keep  scum out of a good place to live. It is a hard call.


 The guy driving the car was an idiot for putting himself in that situation with the pimp and hooker in that neighborhood and after dark. That I will not dispute. Yet Harless' attitude and lack of professionalism was uncalled for. You can be firm and strong without yelling and cussing and throwing implied threats at someone. The uniform and vehicle and badge should automatically give you the authority you need to control the situation. Granted some folks don't see it or recognize it or will submit to the authority presented by the badge/uniform/vehicle. Those can be dealt with in a likewise professional calm but firm manner. 
I can appreciate the harshness of the job and the tension one feels walking up to an unknown during a traffic stop and seeing lots of red-flags everywhere. Still. 

Harless  has been investigated by IA 18 times. I dunno if that is a lot or if it's a small number, yet it does speak volumes to me, an average citizen that a "good cop" is investigated by the department 18 times. 
Still final judgement is and should rightly belong to the Canton OH. police department.


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## JohnEdward (Aug 26, 2011)

MA-Carver and those you PM me, I appreciate your good and insightful comments. I can't argue  Harless wasn't  unprofessional, maybe he was and you both make valid points and can't argue. I think I sure would lose me temper up on reading the situation of the first video. And Harless may have been on the job too long and it got to him. I don't know. But he was in a bad place, with stupid people that could have become dangerous. I think Harless was really rattled seeing that prostitute again after dealing with her and having a history with her. I think because he was rattled, it caused him stressed and confusion, and he didn't allow the "john" to inform him of the concealed weapon.  I don't know how long the concealed weapon law was in effect and how familiar to the procedure Harless was and didn't default and ask if anyone in the car had a weapon. It seemed he assumed at first this was a low level threat situation. Where he spanked everyone in the car, sort to speak. Then finds out the drive has a gun. Harless being rattled and not focus, it seems to this lay person, puts Harless at risk. I know mother's who lose it constantly getting after kids who just don't listen and they have enough. That example shows the same thing happened to Harless. He lost it. He was over taxed that night with dealing with petty criminals laying and playing games such as the prostitute, and put himself at risk.  I am just trying to point out,  the criminal world cops have to work in very sophisticated and dangerous, and as a society we have allowed it. We have high expectations of our police behavior, but little for citizens who disregard the laws, and have no respect for the law. As society we don't socially condemn their behavior strong enough, or work to limit it. We as a society must stop pointing fingers just at the police, and sympathizing with those we feel where victimized by the police.  It would be very easy to condemn Harless' behavior if there wasn't such a strong criminal world functioning out there disregarding and disrespecting the law.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 26, 2011)

MJS said:


> If we're lucky these 2 cops will be fired. This is a perfect example of 2 people that should not be cops. Given the fact that there were 2 officers, you'd think one would talk to the female while the other is dealing with the driver. Yes, I understand that traffic stops are dangerous, and going on what is said in the clip, this may not be the greatest area, but you have to be professional. I've been stopped a few times at night, and each time, I was asked if I had any weapons in the car, to which I said no.
> 
> I think the biggest problem here, is that this was never established from the beginning. Had he asked the driver the necessary questions, he may've established a weapon was in the car. But he was more concerned with going thru the car. I'd imagine its protocol to remove all people from the car before a search, no?



While I agree it looks bad, a full review and the process should be followed.

That being said until recently with video camera's and taking pictures of police has there been any proof of such behavior. When I talked about this in the past, many police officers assume the problem is me. They assume that there cannot be a police agency that allowed such or would condon such actions. And Good officers need and should think like that, but they also should be open minded enough to understand that they do exist and they exist in places one is not expected, and it is a cancer and if allowed to grow in a department it takes over. 

I know from personal experience that these two are lucky, as I was beat and shoved between officers taking short shots and puching me back at the others, while personally kept my hands behid my back as I was grabbing one with the other. I was afraid to raise my hands to defends myself with blocks as that could be taken as being offensive. I have had officers grab me through the window before any words have exchanged. I have officers tell me to my face with 100 plus witnesses that the gun pointed at my head was fake as they did nto want to file the reports. 

So good people get mistreated. 

Then Good police defend bad cops. 

And people wonder why some seem to have an issue. The issue is that if more admitted there was a problem and that sometimes the general population has a point and also the right ro defend themselves even from bad cops. Then maybe people like me who have had issues would not constantly bring them up at times like this. I am not looking for every officer to apologize for the past. Just stop blindly defending each other and look at the data and the situation.


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## jks9199 (Aug 26, 2011)

Rich Parsons said:


> I know from personal experience that these two are lucky, as I was beat and shoved between officers taking short shots and puching me back at the others, while personally kept my hands behid my back as I was grabbing one with the other. I was afraid to raise my hands to defends myself with blocks as that could be taken as being offensive. I have had officers grab me through the window before any words have exchanged. I have officers tell me to my face with 100 plus witnesses that the gun pointed at my head was fake as they did nto want to file the reports.
> 
> So good people get mistreated.
> 
> Then Good police defend bad cops.



Rich, I don't think I've ever suggested that nothing happened, nor have I automatically defended cops.  I think this particular officer has a problem; too much is coming up, even allowing for working a rough area, and being the target of a witch hunt.  Is there room to try to give him a little break?  Yeah.  But his rant in the video that started this crossed the line into unprofessional behavior.  The rest?  Just add to the case.

I don't know what's going on with the guy.  Could be a lot of things, could be nothing and just a winning personality.  (Most agencies have at least one guy who you know is going to piss of just about everyone he talks to...)  Maybe he needs a vacation.  Maybe he needs some counseling.  Maybe just some refresher training.  Or maybe he needs to be terminated and to find a new job.  Don't know.  That's for his bosses and him to work out.


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## JohnEdward (Aug 26, 2011)

I want to let everyone know who has posted that I respect their views and opinions. The situation leads to allot of needed discussion - check and balance. We can't have rogue cops abusing their authority, but on the other hand we can't emasculate police powers. It is a delicate and difficult balance.  But I don't think this video would be drawing the public's attention or being discussed here.  It wasn't for the Ohioans for Concealed Carry (OCC) using the video for political purposes.  I think that if I was the decision maker for that group, I would look for another angle and video for making a point.  It seems the organization isn't concerned with the cop's behavior if a concealed gun was involved. They portray the "john" carrying the gun as a law abiding gun carrying citizen harassed by a rogue cop.  That is only what the organization is only concerned about pointing everything in that direction with bias.  I am pointing out  the slight nudge of misdirection that is intended to make us sympathetic for the victim and more outraged by Harless' behavior and tactics in order to support the organizations politics.  Am not defending Harless' actions, am trying to keep it in perspective. He didn't assault physically the "john," or anyone else, he didn't randomly harass or beat on an innocent law abiding citizen. He didn't act in a racist or bigot manner. No one was falsely arrested. He lost his wits and temper. For some acted unprofessionally.  The OCC wasn't concerned about that, they were only concerned that Harless failed to follow procedure concerning a concealed weapon, and used Harless' behavior to discredit cops in favor of gaining more favor for concealed carry. If moron's like the "john" in the video are allowed to concealed carry, then I can't think that Ohio is not ready for concealed carry.  I think that is also an issue that should be debated too.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 29, 2011)

JohnEdward said:


> ...  and as a society we have allowed it. We have high expectations of our police behavior, but little for citizens who disregard the laws, and have no respect for the law. As society we don't socially condemn their behavior strong enough, or work to limit it. We as a society must stop pointing fingers just at the police, and sympathizing with those we feel where victimized by the police. It would be very easy to condemn Harless' behavior if there wasn't such a strong criminal world functioning out there disregarding and disrespecting the law.



Very good point, except there is nothing wrong with pointing fingers at cops (if we think they are violating laws or ethics) and sympathizing with those who are wronged (if we truely believe they were).

But I get your point about everybody needing to be held accountable, not just police.  I think that is a big problem in the USA.  I think it is time to understand that by the time a person has been a jerk (and lawbreaker) for 18 to 20 years, or more, a gentle admonition to do better isn't going to work.  Nor is one or even two times providing a chance to do better.  It just isn't in their mental makeup at that point to do so.  Is prison the best place to rehabilitate them?  I don't think so.  Nor do I think we can really rehabilitate most of them.  I think the only people who can be helped are those who really wish to change.  It can't be forced.


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## Balrog (Aug 29, 2011)

Stealthy said:


> If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, police are part of the problem *not* the solution.


Suggestion:  stop saying it, because it isn't true.


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