# Does Kali empty hand work?



## Mider (Aug 16, 2021)

So in your experience does Kali translate well into an unarmed fighting system? I mean have you used the destructions etc ?


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## Blindside (Aug 16, 2021)

Against a good striker reaching out to gunting a guys arm with your bare hands is a losing proposition.  Good in drills bad in practice.  But use shielding destructions like elbows to biceps against looping hook punches or elbows to the fist of an uppercut (or top of a foot on a front kick) are very viable because even if you miss the timing you are still protected.  Actually, I have had fair amount of success using a gunting against karate guys who like to backfist, but that is really specific and I don't think it is very "real world."


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## dvcochran (Aug 16, 2021)

Mider said:


> So in your experience does Kali translate well into an unarmed fighting system? I mean have you used the destructions etc ?


Until you can get your blade out or pick it back up the empty hands training will get you by. It was the last thing I learned when training Kali with Tuhon McGrath (knife, stick, empty hands). It is the lowest of quotients but still very valuable.


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## drop bear (Aug 16, 2021)

Lean to box


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## Mider (Aug 16, 2021)

Blindside said:


> Against a good striker reaching out to gunting a guys arm with your bare hands is a losing proposition.  Good in drills bad in practice.  But use shielding destructions like elbows to biceps against looping hook punches or elbows to the fist of an uppercut (or top of a foot on a front kick) are very viable because even if you miss the timing you are still protected.  Actually, I have had fair amount of success using a gunting against karate guys who like to backfist, but that is really specific and I don't think it is very "real world."


I’ve seen 


drop bear said:


> Lean to box


Kali has boxing it just adds other stuff


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## angelariz (Aug 16, 2021)

I have used destructions and dumog both in sparring and other situations.


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## Argus (Aug 16, 2021)

I think the only pitfall of Kali empty hand methods is that people often don't train them enough, and also that they sometimes attempt to do limb destructions and chase hands while they're in range of the opponent's next hand. I see guntings and the like as something you do more when you move safely out of range and can't actually reach the body. If you're just chasing hands, you're basically a puppet and are very likely to eat the next punch.

I think training Wing Chun, and maybe boxing or Muay Thai, in addition to Kali or Silat empty hands should give you a really well rounded understanding of the nature of empty hand fighting, and how different things should and shouldn't (or can/can't) be applied.

All that said, I have only very limited experience with Kali empty hands. I've trained some of the other systems I mentioned to varying degrees, mostly Wing Chun. I think Wing Chun is perhaps the most applicable art for understanding Kali empty hands, as you learn sensitivity, sticking, and centerline theory, which is extremely important in any close-range art. Boxing or Muay Thai will round out the longer range striking, and is particularly important if you want to spar or compete, as trained, uncommitted fighters in a sparring context generally won't close the distance for you and will destroy you at range if you don't know how handle yourself there and close in.

Some Kali empty hand methods contain more or less of these different elements, IE: some are essentially boxing with added techniques, such as destructions, locks, and throws, whilst others are more purely an empty hand expression of the traditional weapon systems, and/or based on traditional arts such as silat.

All that said, it really depends on your instructor. If you have an instructor who really understands empty hand methods, and can explain the context and nature of what you're doing, then you can absolutely just stick with the Kali material and have functional empty hand skills that should serve you well in a self defense context, and perhaps even in the ring (if you train with that specific context in mind).


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## drop bear (Aug 17, 2021)

Mider said:


> I’ve seen
> 
> Kali has boxing it just adds other stuff



Then learning to box will make your Kali better.


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## angelariz (Aug 17, 2021)

drop bear said:


> Then learning to box will make your Kali better.


If the Kali isn't taught in a dirty boxing method, it probably isn't Kali.


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## Holmejr (Sep 3, 2021)

Mider said:


> So in your experience does Kali translate well into an unarmed fighting system? I mean have you used the destructions etc ?


Yes. I look at Jon Jones and Anderson Sylva and you get dirty boxing. On many websites they call them dirty fighters. When I watch Sylva against the ropes his covers IMO are classic FMA or even 52 blocks. In FMA The destructions, just like disarms cannot  be forced, otherwise you risk chasing. In defensive mode, my covering motion, when the timing is right opens the opponent up for destruction. In offensive mode, the way my opponent blocks or covers sets up the destruction. Of course if they are well trained with little wasted motion this becomes much more difficult. On the street, our success comes mostly from surprise. They don’t know what we do and we don’t give it away until we are ready to move.


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