# What Did this Boxer do Right or Wrong? Thoughts?



## Jonathan Randall (Sep 27, 2006)

What Did this Boxer do Right or Wrong? Thoughts? Boxer defends Girlfriend after assault in the park:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4190938042466443086


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## Hand Sword (Sep 27, 2006)

Turned his back before they were done? Apparently, behind the trees, there was another round going on, judging by the sound. Could have been fatal for the boyfriend. One is bad enough but, two on one, and then, them being angrier, and out for revenge? Big no no. I think it was an intentional attack, he did the right thing, initially, but, if you start, make sure you finish!


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## bydand (Sep 27, 2006)

Things done right: 1-Quick defense, no time for them to "set" by running his  mouth.  2-Ignore girlfriend trying to get him to stop, 3-Biggest guy down first, just from a psychological point.

Things done wrong:  *1*-Walking away with one standing and the other still able to stand.  2-Strolling away instead of "making some time" away from the situation.  3-Walking away with one standing and the other still able to stand.  4-Walking away with one standing and the other still able to stand.    And did I mention walking away before the job was finished?


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## morph4me (Sep 27, 2006)

I have to agree with bydand on all points. The situation didn't end just because he was finished punching them, his punches didn't seem to hurt either guy, just pissed them off.

He was extremely lucky that the second guy backed off and didn't go after him, he spent alot of time between the two of them, never a good idea.


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## rutherford (Sep 27, 2006)

morph4me said:


> He was extremely lucky that the second guy backed off and didn't go after him, he spent alot of time between the two of them, never a good idea.


 
To expand on this, if the second guy (black jacket) had made an aggressive move as the "boxer" was crossing in front of him, the boxer would have been in serious trouble.

He didn't appear to have any idea how to line up multiple opponents.  

Also, he lets one of them get between himself and his girlfriend.


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## MA-Caver (Sep 27, 2006)

Someone else posted that same video here on MT... dang if I can find it now even with searches... was it removed?


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## Cruentus (Sep 27, 2006)

The biggest thing that was done wrong in my opinion was that he didn't grab his GF and high tail it out of there quickly, after "round 1." He instead choose to be tough and hang out for "round 2," which in my opinion could be a deadly mistake on the street. 

As to lining up multiple opponents; there is what works in theory and in training and what happends in a fight. In a fight, the tendency is to focus on the nearest available threat until that threat disappates. You really have to attack immediately and overwhelm the opposition; to do so you most likely will have to hit the nearest threat without discression. Then you apply other principles of keeping one guy between the other (for example) only if your able too in the midst of and as a natural part of your attack on your opponents. If you try circling around and doing other things without attacking while doing so, your done for.

Paul


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## Carol (Sep 27, 2006)

He didn't teach his girl any skills


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## Jonathan Randall (Sep 27, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:


> He didn't teach his girl any skills


 
I hadn't thought about that! Great point.


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## Carol (Sep 28, 2006)

Is it just me or did it seem like the Boxer was not hitting very hard?

He seemed to stun the two idiots, but they seemed to get back up without incident once he moved past.   He didn't draw any blood either...with how vascularized the face is...it doesn't much impact for the face to start bleeding.

The other thing that struck me is that this looked like it was set up almost too well.  Someone just happened to have a handheld camera watching?


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## MA-Caver (Sep 28, 2006)

MA-Caver said:


> Someone else posted that same video here on MT... dang if I can find it now even with searches... was it removed?




Ah here it is.. the thread... http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39076 Sorry Jonathan just FYI...


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## Jonathan Randall (Sep 28, 2006)

MA-Caver said:


> Ah here it is.. the thread... http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39076 Sorry Jonathan just FYI...


 
Oh, no, thanks - I'm glad you found it. I was aware that there was another thread, but I was looking at this from a WMA boxing perspective rather than a general MA or Self-Defence one.


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## Ken Pfrenger (Sep 28, 2006)

I think the only real mistake is the one that is being mentioned over and over...he walked away. He should have either stomped the crap outta those two or ran or better yet, stomped them and then ran.

As to him not hitting hard....hard enough to knock them both down is hard enough. Most likely not Hollywood looking enough  for many but he did a nice job of forcing the action and the pace before the other guys could even set themselves.

My guess is that someone saw these two Romales outside their window about to fight and started filming. Could be set up but why?


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## stephen (Sep 29, 2006)

The thing he did wrong was throw the first punch. The boxer would certainly be charged with, and convicted of, assault.

The hit looked accidental. Even if it wasn't he cannot continue to use force if there is no threat of continued harm. One of them was putting his hands up in a "calm down" sign  and engaged to defend his friend. Then it just turns into a testosterone fueled schoolyard fight. 

The boxer should be arrested.


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## bydand (Sep 29, 2006)

stephen said:


> The hit looked accidental. Even if it wasn't he cannot continue to use force if there is no threat of continued harm. One of them was putting his hands up in a "calm down" sign  and engaged to defend his friend. Then it just turns into a testosterone fueled schoolyard fight.
> 
> The boxer should be arrested.



I thought it looked accidental at first, until I watched it again.  You can see both of the guys look at the approaching couple then the guy who swings his arm looks over his shoulder first before hitting the girl.  I've seen that "calm down" sign used to get somebody to drop their hands then get belted right in the mouth by the same guy who was urging him to "calm down."  It looks good to somebody looking on, but isn't what is intended 90% of the time.  Arrested?  I'll let the liberals and common sense argue that one out to the end.


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## stephen (Sep 29, 2006)

bydand said:


> I thought it looked accidental at first, until I watched it again.  You can see both of the guys look at the approaching couple then the guy who swings his arm looks over his shoulder first before hitting the girl.  I've seen that "calm down" sign used to get somebody to drop their hands then get belted right in the mouth by the same guy who was urging him to "calm down."  It looks good to somebody looking on, but isn't what is intended 90% of the time.  Arrested?  I'll let the liberals and common sense argue that one out to the end.



I watched that part about 20 times back and forth too. It just doesn't make sense any other way. Those two were in a heated "discussion" - I've walked right into lampposts when distracted in conversation. His arm make contact in such a weird way that I can't see how anyone would hit that way. Even if he meant it but wanted it to look accedential it would have been different. 

As for the last bit. I'm certainly no liberal, but I am tough on stupidity.


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## bydand (Sep 29, 2006)

stephen said:


> I watched that part about 20 times back and forth too. It just doesn't make sense any other way. Those two were in a heated "discussion" - I've walked right into lampposts when distracted in conversation. His arm make contact in such a weird way that I can't see how anyone would hit that way. Even if he meant it but wanted it to look accedential it would have been different.
> 
> As for the last bit. I'm certainly no liberal, but I am tough on stupidity.



Walking into a lamppost and elbowing a woman walking by are two totally different things.  Nothing weird about the way contact was made either, elbow to the face.  Watch it for the 21st time, he looks over his shoulder before swinging his elbow right in her face, just because he doesn't hit with the knuckles doesn't make it weird.  I'll stand by my original answer, he stopped too soon.


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## stephen (Sep 29, 2006)

bydand said:


> Walking into a lamppost and elbowing a woman walking by are two totally different things.  Nothing weird about the way contact was made either, elbow to the face.  Watch it for the 21st time, he looks over his shoulder before swinging his elbow right in her face, just because he doesn't hit with the knuckles doesn't make it weird.  I'll stand by my original answer, he stopped too soon.




*Even* if it was intentional he had no legal right after *at most* the first punch. There was no continued threat of force.


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## searcher (Sep 29, 2006)

I am in agreement that his girl needs some skills and that he stopped a bit to soon.   Him and his girl are attacked.   That to me says that you don't stop until the two guys are out of service.   I also see that he is over-extending in an attempt to reach them.   He forget that if he takes the body the head will follow.   The one thing I like is that he divided them up and took i to them one at a time.

I will give one thing to the girlfriend, she took a shot to the mouth and didn't go out like a light.


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## morph4me (Sep 29, 2006)

stephen said:


> The thing he did wrong was throw the first punch. The boxer would certainly be charged with, and convicted of, assault.
> 
> The hit looked accidental. Even if it wasn't he cannot continue to use force if there is no threat of continued harm. One of them was putting his hands up in a "calm down" sign and engaged to defend his friend. Then it just turns into a testosterone fueled schoolyard fight.
> 
> The boxer should be arrested.


 
There is no way that hit was accidental, the guy looked over his left shoulder as they passed and then looked over his right shoulder and let fly, that isn't an accident, that's a setup. The 2 guys were hoping for a confrontation that they could take advantage of, what they got was somebody who decided to pre-empt them.


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## Jonathan Randall (Oct 2, 2006)

morph4me said:


> There is no way that hit was accidental, the guy looked over his left shoulder as they passed and then looked over his right shoulder and let fly, that isn't an accident, that's a setup. The 2 guys were hoping for a confrontation that they could take advantage of, what they got was somebody who decided to pre-empt them.


 
That's my take as well - loser thug takes what he thinks will be an easy cheap shot and gets his clock cleaned instead.


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## Hand Sword (Oct 2, 2006)

Agreed! They looked at the couple coming, and he adjusted his stance to take that swing. (He did look before swinging). The Boxer DID the right thing. If he stopped to argue instead, both would've got the jump on him and his girl. Considering the situation, an attack, a loved one in possible danger, odds against him, he had to do what he did initially. No time to wait for something small to get worse.


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## Hand Sword (Oct 2, 2006)

stephen said:


> *Even* if it was intentional he had no legal right after *at most* the first punch. There was no continued threat of force.


 You think if he threw one punch that would have ended the confrontation? I think after getting hit, he would want to hit back, just as they did, going after the couple. By then, the two would've jumped on the boyfriend. Sorry, from a real world self defense theory, His quick action was the best decision. You can't expect that the second guy would do nothing if you concentrated on his friend.


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## Jonathan Randall (Oct 2, 2006)

Hand Sword said:


> You think if he threw one punch that would have ended the confrontation? I think after getting hit, he would want to hit back, just as they did, going after the couple. Bythen, the two would've jumped on the boyfriend. Sorry, from a real world self defense theory, His quick action was the best decision. You can't expect that the second guy would do nothing if you concentrated on his friend.


 
Agreed - but once the two were on the ground it was time for the boxer to grab his girlfriend's hand and start running away as fast as they could and not reengage them at the trees. Hindsight is always 20/20, though, isn't it?


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## Hand Sword (Oct 2, 2006)

You're right, that's why I said initially. He absolutely should have took off with her. Waiting for the second attack, could have been fatal, if one of the attackers was armed. he would have had plenty of time to pull and use.


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## zDom (Oct 3, 2006)

These points have already been made, but:

a) He chose a route along the path that not only put himself within range of a cheap shot, he had HER walking CLOSER to them.

Upon spotting the thugs loitering on the path, he should have first changed places with his girlfriend so he would have passed the pair with HIM being closer.

If room, he should have walked around the pair so there was no overlap of personal space (i.e., passed them with at LEAST an arms reach separation).

b) He wasn't hitting them with enough penetration. Two or three shots to each of the thugs should have had them seeking medical attention, not chasing down the boxer for more.

c) He should have kept an eye on his girlfriend, kept himself between the thugs and her.

d) He turned his back on attackers way too often, giving them opportunities he is lucky they did not capitalize on.

e) He should have hurt them bad enough that there was NO chance of them preventing the escape of him and his girlfriend. Putting someone down for a 10-count doesn't mean they won't get up and try for more -- which is exactly what they did.


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## Hand Sword (Oct 4, 2006)

Yep!


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## swiftpete (Oct 5, 2006)

I was really hoping the first time I watched it that after he dropped the first guy and punched the other a couple of times and starts walking back to the path he was going to throw his knee in the downed guys face. To me it looks like the guy in black probably would have left him to it if that had happened and it would've been over. I really hope for his sake that he ended up downing both of them, unfortunately with the girls' screaming after, it sounds like maybe he didn't.

To me the hit on the girl looks 100% deliberate, they were obviously wanting a fight but not expecting the guy to be as tough as he was and immediately punch them.


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