# Taser Explained...and Defeated by Willpower!



## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 30, 2008)

[yt]uqZP2HyudEM&feature=related[/yt]

Oh and here is another clip from a different group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxCyAWmF2uI&feature=user


Note that they all only received one charge.


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## Drac (Sep 30, 2008)

There was an instructor up here who managed to walk through the effects of the first generation tazers, I saw the vid so I know its true..He did it *twice* because the company rep gave the lame excuse that the battery wasn't on full charge...


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## MJS (Sep 30, 2008)

Interesting clip.  I think this is just one more example, that the tools available should not be relied upon 100%.  I think it would be an interesting study to have a group of people, maybe 10 or so.  Each takes a hit from the taser.  Out of each person, how many can repeat what was shown here.  Was the person in this clip an 'exception' to the rule of it effectiveness?  Don't know, but if more people are capable to resisting, then that IMO, is an issue that should be addressed.


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## Sukerkin (Sep 30, 2008)

That was indeed very interesting, especially as it lead me along a trail of other Taser videos at YouTube that showed a very wide variety of reactions.

These ranged from a soldier, the size of a house, who went out like a light, to Trish Stratus, of wrestling fame, who tho' she exhibited the expected 'rigour' on the hit, recovered almost instantly the current went off.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UncMrAt5gE4


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## arnisador (Sep 30, 2008)

I always say, "Nothing is Magic." You can't count on it!


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## shesulsa (Sep 30, 2008)

Good video!


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## ben (Sep 30, 2008)

I just posted this link in another taser thread but here you go.

http://thedailytimes.com/article/20080505/NEWS/228557898

The short version is: a man was stunned 4 times by officers. The first two times he did not respond to the taser and kept fighting.

A good reminder that tools are just tools and nothing should be relied upon 100%


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## punisher73 (Sep 30, 2008)

Drac said:


> There was an instructor up here who managed to walk through the effects of the first generation tazers, I saw the vid so I know its true..He did it *twice* because the company rep gave the lame excuse that the battery wasn't on full charge...


 
We had one from one of our local departments do that too.  Taser Inc. told him they would pay him $1000 if he could do it with them shooting him.  He was able to stand up and start to walk forward, they couldn't figure out how he did it.  They didn't give him the money, but did give him alot of "products" from their company like bags, hats etc.

The same guy was later shot with the 2nd generation and it put him right down.

When I was shot with it, my focus was on Sanchin kata and applying that.  It worked and I was able to stand up through it, although any movement would have made Frankenstein seem like Fred Astaire.  I truly believe that a conditioned mind and body can override the taser.

The times it was applied that I have seen it "not work" was usually due to both barbs not fully penetrating into the body.  They got caught on clothing or something similiar and only made a partial circuit.


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## theletch1 (Sep 30, 2008)

Ok, so, for the layman here.  Is the tazer interrupting the nervous system directly or is it supposed to be scrambling the signal from the brain that causes the the nervous system to do what it is supposed to do?  If it's the former then I don't see how will power can overcome it.  If its the latter then I can see how a properly trained brain could possibly "re-route" the signal to other parts of the brain to continue to function.


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## jks9199 (Sep 30, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> We had one from one of our local departments do that too. Taser Inc. told him they would pay him $1000 if he could do it with them shooting him. He was able to stand up and start to walk forward, they couldn't figure out how he did it. They didn't give him the money, but did give him alot of "products" from their company like bags, hats etc.
> 
> The same guy was later shot with the 2nd generation and it put him right down.
> 
> ...


 


theletch1 said:


> Ok, so, for the layman here. Is the tazer interrupting the nervous system directly or is it supposed to be scrambling the signal from the brain that causes the the nervous system to do what it is supposed to do? If it's the former then I don't see how will power can overcome it. If its the latter then I can see how a properly trained brain could possibly "re-route" the signal to other parts of the brain to continue to function.


 
The original Taser was a pain compliance tool.  That's all.  If you focused, you could move past the pain.

The current generation works differently; the pulse frequency is designed to interfere with, disrupt the nervous system, and cause all your muscles to fire at once, putting you into a kind of rigor.  Is there someone out there who can override that?  Probably.  But I've never seen anyone show that a good hit with both barbs over a decent span of muscle mass could be be overridden.  The clip that starts this thread has a hit on the arm and torso; the spread wasn't great, and it's hard to tell because of the way it was filmed if he was moving before it hit.  Even then, with what I'll describe as "periphery hits" like that, there's a small delay before most of the body is effected, and that's when he was moving.  Like I said; he wants to prove to me that he can overcome the effect, let's use the training probes with clips, set up a good spread (butt & shoulder is common) and see him do it.

And it's got to be a TASER Inc. X26 or M26, not one of the couple of copycats out there or an older Air Taser that didn't have the NMI pulse.


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## Deaf Smith (Sep 30, 2008)

If you make a Taser 100 percent reliable then some will die.

Come to think of it, some do die anyway.

There is not such thing as a non-lethal weapon. It it really is a weapon then in some cases it can kill. They are 'less lethal' weapons.

Deaf


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## MJS (Sep 30, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> If you make a Taser 100 percent reliable then some will die.
> 
> Come to think of it, some do die anyway.
> 
> ...


 
Of course, I'm interested in seeing the stats of those who died from the taser and the taser only vs. the ones who died from another cause.  Seems to me that anytime someone gets hit with the taser and dies, folks like the ACLU, cry foul and put the sole blame on the taser, and forget that the suspect in question was high on (insert drug of choice here)


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## punisher73 (Oct 1, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> The original Taser was a pain compliance tool. That's all. If you focused, you could move past the pain.
> 
> The current generation works differently; the pulse frequency is designed to interfere with, disrupt the nervous system, and cause all your muscles to fire at once, putting you into a kind of rigor. Is there someone out there who can override that? Probably. But I've never seen anyone show that a good hit with both barbs over a decent span of muscle mass could be be overridden. The clip that starts this thread has a hit on the arm and torso; the spread wasn't great, and it's hard to tell because of the way it was filmed if he was moving before it hit. Even then, with what I'll describe as "periphery hits" like that, there's a small delay before most of the body is effected, and that's when he was moving. Like I said; he wants to prove to me that he can overcome the effect, let's use the training probes with clips, set up a good spread (butt & shoulder is common) and see him do it.
> 
> And it's got to be a TASER Inc. X26 or M26, not one of the couple of copycats out there or an older Air Taser that didn't have the NMI pulse.


 
My hit was with an M26 (it was a liitle bit before the newer X26 came out).  The spread was high on the upper back near the spine on the right side,and the other one was down on the lower left back/hip area.  It doesn't stop your thought process and if you focus you can still control your muscles (at least with the M26), but like I said they are sluggish and slow.  It is just like doing your Sanchin with full body tension.  We had another deputy that was able to stand and slowly shuffle forward as well.

The other officer I mentioned had a rep from Taser come to their dept. to shoot him with it because at that time they advertised 100% effectiveness on it when properly applied.  They shot him with the M26 and he was still able to walk forward and the rep couldn't explain it because it was a full charge and good spread.  But like I said, this officer went straight down with the new X26.  I have not been shot with the new one yet to be able to tell you what the difference is.


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## jks9199 (Oct 1, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> My hit was with an M26 (it was a liitle bit before the newer X26 came out).  The spread was high on the upper back near the spine on the right side,and the other one was down on the lower left back/hip area.  It doesn't stop your thought process and if you focus you can still control your muscles (at least with the M26), but like I said they are sluggish and slow.  It is just like doing your Sanchin with full body tension.  We had another deputy that was able to stand and slowly shuffle forward as well.
> 
> The other officer I mentioned had a rep from Taser come to their dept. to shoot him with it because at that time they advertised 100% effectiveness on it when properly applied.  They shot him with the M26 and he was still able to walk forward and the rep couldn't explain it because it was a full charge and good spread.  But like I said, this officer went straight down with the new X26.  I have not been shot with the new one yet to be able to tell you what the difference is.


Hey, I've absolutely said it was possible, and even probable that there's someone out there that can do it.  Lots of reasons, from simple weirdness of body wiring to ungawdly discipline and focus.  

The Taser is only a tool.  It's a good tool -- but it's not a magic wand.  It's not perfect for every situation (like, maybe, using a Taser on a guy standing a ledge might not be a good idea...)  You always need a backup plan, and a backup for the backup.  What it has done is reduce injuries to both cops and ogres that are almost inevitable when you go hands on.


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 1, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> [yt]uqZP2HyudEM&feature=related[/yt]
> 
> Oh and here is another clip from a different group.
> 
> ...


 He didn't overcome the effects with willpower, what he did was use his lefthand (not being stimulated) to break the wires.....a counter-measure I am already familiar with........a subtle but real distinction.   The wire has always been the weak link.

Chris is a tough guy, ex-SEAL, Special tactics trainer, well known....but lets seem him do the same trick Tasered in the back. 

Trainable counter-measure we've already seen in jail......the Taser isn't perfect, but it's still more reliable than anything else.


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## Sukerkin (Oct 1, 2008)

This is an exemplar I mentioned earlier that exhibits *Macs* point:


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 1, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Ok, so, for the layman here.  Is the tazer interrupting the nervous system directly or is it supposed to be scrambling the signal from the brain that causes the the nervous system to do what it is supposed to do?  If it's the former then I don't see how will power can overcome it.  If its the latter then I can see how a properly trained brain could possibly "re-route" the signal to other parts of the brain to continue to function.


 The former.....but here's the hint....only between the two points of contact.....the wider the spread, the greater the effect.


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 1, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> This is an exemplar I mentioned earlier that exhibits *Macs* point:


 I saw that coming! :lol2:


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