# techniques to spar or fight



## LawDog (Dec 28, 2008)

Using the techniques from your given system, how many of your students actually use them when they spar or fight?
Sparring:
  Sport style - heavy with rules, with no or light contact,
  Traditional style - limited rules, light or med. contact.
Fighting:
  Sports type - heavy with rules, med. or heavy contact, 
                      to the ground is optional,
  Street type - limited rules, med. or heavy contact,
                            to the ground.
There is a reason that I have posted this question is this, when I have visit other schools I have noticed that most of the students have the ability, according to their level, do perform their techniques very well. When it comes to sparring time though I have noticed that most of the schools students do not use fighting techniques that even look simular to their own styles techniques. The lower levels spar much like the tournament fighters do. The upper ranks spar the same way but faster and cleaner.
No finger pointing by me here, I am just curious about what is happening out there in cyber land.
As for my school,
Kyu Ranks:
  They use the traditional sparring method with light contact,
Dan ranks:
  They do both versions listed under the Fighting. This will depend on what I am covering that week in class.
Next someone.
:boxing:


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## MJS (Dec 28, 2008)

Typically, the sparring that is usually done is the sport style sparring.  The typical light to med. contact, targets above the belt, nothing to the back, etc.

The majority of my sparring is done with my inst.  That would consist of more boxing type, rather than the traditional point type sparring.  The contact is heavier, clinch/ground work, knees, elbows, etc.

IMO, I think that all methods have something to offer.  Of course, I think that everyone should experience each method, as it'll force them to adapt and not be set in one particular way.


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## JTKenpo (Dec 29, 2008)

Do to the reality that eye pokes, throat strikes, back strikes, and groin strikes do real damage my students are made to understand that sparring is a tool no different from doing basics or bag work.  I find too many people put too much weight on sparring.  I have been in *many* sparring matches, in class and tournaments and I have been in *many *self defense situations and they are night and day.  I teach my students that sparring is a good tool to begin to understand body language and reaction time.  It helps to increase your recognition of reactions as well as timing and hand, eye, and foot coordination.

As to the op I do believe that some techniques have sparring adaptability and some do not.  Those that due I show how to adapt.  Back to the op, I mean it this time, kids do tourny style point sparring and adults and teens do traditional style with light to med contact.


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## Blindside (Dec 29, 2008)

LawDog said:


> Using the techniques from your given system, how many of your students actually use them when they spar or fight?



Our kenpo school starts with what is essentially point sparring.  Once the students figure out about their range and have some basic combinations it turns into a light/med continuous type of sparring with acknowledging of good shots landing.  As the student goes up in rank the contact increases and the upper belts push the underbelts with the addition of standing grappling such as headlocks (and hitting with the other hand), lapel/neck/shoulder grabs (and hitting with the other hand), head controls and knees shots.  Somewhere in there we toss in really basic ground-fighting, really basic ground and pound rather than some technical submission game.


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## Danjo (Jan 2, 2009)

Kids do point sparring except Prof. Bishop only gives them points on the last strike or kick in a combination to avoid the "tag you're it" mentality. They also do grappling with points for takedowns, reversals, escapes etc.

The adults do traditional continuous sparring on the floor and MMA style sparring on the mats. The only time we ever do point sparring in adult class is if we are about to go to a tournament the following weekend which is only five times per year.

Street fighting training is done on non-sparring nights using controlled drills/scenarios.


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## DavidCC (Jan 2, 2009)

we never count points.

When we spar takedowns and continuing on the ground are allowed.  Although some days we want to emphasize stand-up skills so the instructor may call a stand-up pretty quickly.  But for senior adults it's wherever it goes.

For the younger kids we usually don't allow take down just for safety.

We want the contact to be medium because we need to see if you can get the physical reaction from the other guy, that will allow some idea of actual techniques to happen.  Light contact "tag" never will.

I wouldn't say you would see a lot of by-the-book techs executed but a trained eye will see a piece of this one and a piece of that one.  Although in my brown belt test I did do a #12 on a guy so sweetly, dropped him like a sack of potatos   but that is a very short and direct technique LOL

And we ease lower betls into it of course.  if I am fighting a yellow or orange belt, my goals are 1) not get tagged by their crazy stuff and 2) try to get them accustomed to the strees and pain without overwhelming them and 3) give them some opportunity to build confidence, without violating goal #1 LOL.


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## Matt (Jan 2, 2009)

DavidCC said:


> we never count points.
> 
> When we spar takedowns and continuing on the ground are allowed.  Although some days we want to emphasize stand-up skills so the instructor may call a stand-up pretty quickly.  But for senior adults it's wherever it goes.
> 
> ...



I think this is a good system, and a good strategy for helping newer belts get their feet wet without being so frustrated that they give up.


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## KenpoDave (Jan 2, 2009)

We "self point," that is, we acknowledge good shots from our partner when we know they could have wasted us.  It allows the two opponents to go at a continually harder pace based on what type of contact is causing them to back off on that particular day.  Every class is different.  I would call us a medium contact school, although new students from other schools often think we are heavy to full contact.  

We allow groundfighting.  For kids, we allow sparring to continue into a takedown and then to a superior position, but no real groundfighting in that arena.  When the kids groundfight, they start on the ground, with fully committed supervision.


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## Danjo (Jan 3, 2009)

KenpoDave said:


> I would call us a medium contact school, although new students from other schools often think we are heavy to full contact.


 
Yep, I know the feeling well.


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## SifuJohnson (Jan 8, 2009)

In the past ten years I've put in a lot of thought on this subject because to me there seems to be a real disconnect between the world of technique and sparring as we often see it in school or competitions we sometimes go to. 

I have always taught my students that kenpo is a science of motion and interaction of that motion. I teach that the techniques we learn are designed to show us the interactive possibilities but I also teach them that nothing always works as planned no matter how well it's practiced. My students learn to use cognitive thinking in everything as a result.

So we teach that a technique (as a whole) is not necessarily the solution to any given aggressive motion but instead a strategy designed to work within the elements of that motion. 

When we spar we don't use a technique per say but frequently use motion and interactional elements of those techniques in what ever combinations that seem to make sense based upon the level of the student.​


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## Kenpo17 (Jan 18, 2009)

I traditionally spar, but have never sparred in a tournament.  Since my art is American Kenpo we spar alot a the school, but only a few of us at our school have sparred in tournaments.  I also want to start learning Jiu-Jitsu, but I don't know when and if I will start that.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 19, 2009)

none of the categories fit what we do exactly so i picked street fighting. we can go with whatever contact we want and the only rules that apply depend on rank ie: white - orange is only chest, ribs and solar plexus, purple you can start going to the sides and top of the head, blue - face and back of the head, blue w/green - disturb the balance, brown - full take downs, black - everything goes

I believe its something like that

B


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## Thesemindz (Jan 25, 2009)

In instruction, I view Karate style point sparring as a beginner to intermediate introduction into fully integrated combat. It is a very limited aspect of a much more complex experience, but one through which a beginner student can learn many important lessons which are applicable to higher level activities.

I think too many practitioners view sparring as an ends instead of a means. I see it as being as much a part of a students training as blocking set one for beginners and fully integrated street combat drills in the dark for advanced students. It's a step, like any other. 

Sparring is important, but it is not fighting, and as such, not all fighting techniques apply. When you take the gloves off, and include ground fighting, and expand the allowed targets, and introduce multiple oppponents, and obstacles, and inconsistent lighting, and noise, and sweat, and fatigue, and fear, then you begin to more closely approximate real combat.

Until then, it's just another drill.


-Rob


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## Thesemindz (Jan 25, 2009)

When I am training with my close friends who are also black belts, our combat drills are controlled contact, no holds barred fighting to submission. 

On a range of light-medium-heavy-full, strikes to non vital targets are heavy, to the head and joints medium, and to vital organs light. Strikes to the eyes are simulated with strikes to the area just slightly above the orbital rim. Occasions when the opponent or some part of their body is slammed against the ground, wall, or other object are at light to medium contact. The only protective gear worn is a groin guard. No gloves, no mouth guard. Ground fighting and stand up grappling are allowed. 

Other than that it's pretty much the honor system. If you think you were got, you yield. If you get submitted, you tap. It's as close to an actual fight as we can make it, considering that afterwords we're all still friends. 


-Rob


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## Doc (Jan 25, 2009)

All.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 25, 2009)

As several have pointed out above, in my school the more skilled you became the more heavy the contact that was encouraged and the less restrictions on target areas and techniques there were.

Likewise there were different forms of sparring too.  This ranged from coordinated partner-work using only one attack and it's counter, to regulated sparring (often with a delimited perimeter that you could not move outside), to free-sparring (where the only restrictions were pretty much no breaking techniques on fingers or contact to the throat or groin).


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