# Best way to avoid joint pain



## Uchimedic (Apr 16, 2019)

Lately I've been noticing some joint pain in my right knee and left elbow. I think the elbow pain is from repeated back and side falls. What can I do to keep from wrecking my joints? Are there any joint health supplements that work for anyone? I want to continue to enjoy the sport without regretting it when I'm older,  so what do you all do?


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## Steve (Apr 16, 2019)

First, i am not a doctor and recommend you consult one.   

What has worked for me are fish oil and glucosamine.


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## jobo (Apr 16, 2019)

Uchimedic said:


> Lately I've been noticing some joint pain in my right knee and left elbow. I think the elbow pain is from repeated back and side falls. What can I do to keep from wrecking my joints? Are there any joint health supplements that work for anyone? I want to continue to enjoy the sport without regretting it when I'm older,  so what do you all do?


ignore all pain, apart from appendix  pain, your body is lieing to you, it's no where near w recked yet

you could always try not falling over as much I supose or try falling on the other side ?


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## drop bear (Apr 16, 2019)

Wear pads and braces until the pain goes away.


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## vince1 (Apr 17, 2019)

Uchimedic said:


> Lately I've been noticing some joint pain in my right knee and left elbow. I think the elbow pain is from repeated back and side falls. What can I do to keep from wrecking my joints? Are there any joint health supplements that work for anyone? I want to continue to enjoy the sport without regretting it when I'm older,  so what do you all do?



If you can find a really good highly respected chiropractor and a massage therapist that can perform deep tissue massage. I have broken many bones (neck & ribs) as well as damage such as tennis elbow etc. Without the chiropractor keeping my body in alignment along with deep tissue massage provided by massage therapist I wouldn't be able to function. I take Krill oil, vitamin D, K, B12, B1 a greens powdered supplement called Moringa for joint pain that also contains a other vitamins such as vitamin C, Mg.I also eat a lot of soups containing bone marrow/collagen for joint repair. Your left elbow can easily be adjusted and deep tissue massage in the joint (break down scar tissue)would make a huge difference. Oh and I lost 20 pounds which made a big difference.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Apr 17, 2019)

Wearing some form of padding, and going easier until a doctors assessment.  

I usually just don't do anything until join pain goes away.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 17, 2019)

Steve said:


> First, i am not a doctor and recommend you consult one.



QFT

See a doctor, preferably an Orthopedic doctor


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## vince1 (Apr 17, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> QFT
> 
> See a doctor, preferably an Orthopedic doctor



Yes see your doctor first but generally they want an x-ray and bloodwork done then prescribe pain medication, physio therapy in some instances. Personally I have done all that and found the best solution overall has been diet, exercise, chiropractor and massage therapy.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 17, 2019)

vince1 said:


> Yes see your doctor first but generally they want an x-ray and bloodwork done then prescribe pain medication, physio therapy in some instances. Personally I have done all that and found the best solution overall has been diet, exercise, chiropractor and massage therapy.



Not been my experience with an orthopedic doc (although I have received a cortisone shot and had x-rays done, no blood work and no prescribed pain medication) and I have not had great luck with Chiropractors and I personally would not trust my joint pain to a massage therapist. But like most things other mileage may vary.


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## Buka (Apr 17, 2019)

First thing you should do is work on those breakfalls before the mistake gets too hard wired to correct.

Last thing you should do is ask crazy people like us for any medical advice. 

Do you think the knee pain is from breakfalls as well, or overwork in kneeling positions?


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## dvcochran (Apr 17, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Not been my experience with an orthopedic doc (although I have received a cortisone shot and had x-rays done, no blood work and no prescribed pain medication) and I have not had great luck with Chiropractors and I personally would not trust my joint pain to a massage therapist. But like most things other mileage may vary.


The supplements mentioned do help I think. I haven't had a cortisone shot in a while but they helped me a lot with pain while getting so muscle tone back. I had Syn-Vis (I think that's right)injections about a year ago which are supposed to be better than cortisone and last longer. I could not tell a big difference.


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## vince1 (Apr 18, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Not been my experience with an orthopedic doc (although I have received a cortisone shot and had x-rays done, no blood work and no prescribed pain medication) and I have not had great luck with Chiropractors and I personally would not trust my joint pain to a massage therapist. But like most things other mileage may vary.



That's a typical standard practice giving patients a cortisone shot but it is only good for short term relieve. It is my understanding speaking to a surgeon who wanted to operate on me (neck/back) that an individual could only receive up to 3 cortisone shots in his/her life time.The thought of major surgery scared me and decided to research reputable legit chiropractors which lead me to a community college professor who teaches massage therapy who became my massage therapist. 

I do not want to go into too much detail but my body was a train wreck(many breaks). My family doctor is amazed how well I have healed based on diet/exercise, regular chiropractor visits and massage therapy. I recently looked at an x-ray image from 9 years ago, compared it to a recent x-ray from my chiropractor and the difference is night & day. Keep in mind not every chiropractor are equal as well as massage therapist because I have experienced some bad ones as well.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2019)

Uchimedic said:


> Lately I've been noticing some joint pain in my right knee and left elbow. I think the elbow pain is from repeated back and side falls. What can I do to keep from wrecking my joints? Are there any joint health supplements that work for anyone? I want to continue to enjoy the sport without regretting it when I'm older,  so what do you all do?


It depends what the pain is from. If it's the actual joint, that will require a different approach than if it's something like tendinitis (which I get kind of a lot in my elbow area).


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2019)

vince1 said:


> Yes see your doctor first but generally they want an x-ray and bloodwork done then prescribe pain medication, physio therapy in some instances. Personally I have done all that and found the best solution overall has been diet, exercise, chiropractor and massage therapy.


My docs rarely go for blood work (except where there's reason to suspect a systemic issue like RA), have never prescribed pain meds besides NSAIDs, and usually send me directly to PT, which often includes massage and other modalities.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 18, 2019)

vince1 said:


> That's a typical standard practice giving patients a cortisone shot but it is only good for short term relieve. It is my understanding speaking to a surgeon who wanted to operate on me (neck/back) that an individual could only receive up to 3 cortisone shots in his/her life time.The thought of major surgery scared me and decided to research reputable legit chiropractors which lead me to a community college professor who teaches massage therapy who became my massage therapist.
> 
> I do not want to go into too much detail but my body was a train wreck(many breaks). My family doctor is amazed how well I have healed based on diet/exercise, regular chiropractor visits and massage therapy. I recently looked at an x-ray image from 9 years ago, compared it to a recent x-ray from my chiropractor and the difference is night & day. Keep in mind not every chiropractor are equal as well as massage therapist because I have experienced some bad ones as well.



But we are talking knee and elbow joints, not spinal, from the OP.

And like I said, others milage may vary, and many do go for surgery and many do get into continual cortisone shots. My experience was different with my knees. Did not recommend surgery and only needed 1 cortisone shot...so far and that was many years ago.


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## dvcochran (Apr 18, 2019)

vince1 said:


> That's a typical standard practice giving patients a cortisone shot but it is only good for short term relieve. It is my understanding speaking to a surgeon who wanted to operate on me (neck/back) that an individual could only receive up to 3 cortisone shots in his/her life time.The thought of major surgery scared me and decided to research reputable legit chiropractors which lead me to a community college professor who teaches massage therapy who became my massage therapist.
> 
> I do not want to go into too much detail but my body was a train wreck(many breaks). My family doctor is amazed how well I have healed based on diet/exercise, regular chiropractor visits and massage therapy. I recently looked at an x-ray image from 9 years ago, compared it to a recent x-ray from my chiropractor and the difference is night & day. Keep in mind not every chiropractor are equal as well as massage therapist because I have experienced some bad ones as well.


Great to hear about your improvements. I have had 3 cortisone shots/years in the past with no trouble. I understand they do have negative effects for some.


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## vince1 (Apr 18, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> But we are talking knee and elbow joints, not spinal, from the OP.
> 
> And like I said, others milage may vary, and many do go for surgery and many do get into continual cortisone shots. My experience was different with my knees. Did not recommend surgery and only needed 1 cortisone shot...so far and that was many years ago.



Makes no difference as to the approach a chiropractor will take, it's all connected, he/she will make an assessment based on x-rays , symptoms etc.. My hips are adjusted once a week as well as legs, ankles, neck area spine etc. I use to go 3 times a week for many months an now I go once a week sometimes every other week. If your hip is out of alignment it affects your knee. If your elbow is bothering you it can be a variety of reasons such shoulder blade needs an alignment which connects to the spine/neck region. Or it can be as simple as cartilage damage in the elbow region that needs deep tissue massage to break up the scaring which increases blood flow to the region to begin the healing process.


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## jobo (Apr 18, 2019)

vince1 said:


> Makes no difference as to the approach a chiropractor will take, it's all connected, he/she will make an assessment based on x-rays , symptoms etc.. My hips are adjusted once a week as well as legs, ankles, neck area spine etc. I use to go 3 times a week for many months an now I go once a week sometimes every other week. If your hip is out of alignment it affects your knee. If your elbow is bothering you it can be a variety of reasons such shoulder blade needs an alignment which connects to the spine/neck region. Or it can be as simple as cartilage damage in the elbow region that needs deep tissue massage to break up the scaring which increases blood flow to the region to begin the healing process.


I'm not disputing some people get benifit from chiropractioners,  but if your going 50 times a year, every year, you are either a Hyprocondriac that being fleesed by a conman or you have really serious issues and you need a real doctor.


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## vince1 (Apr 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> I'm not disputing some people get benifit from chiropractioners,  but if your going 50 times a year, you are either a Hyprocondriac that being fleesed by a conman or you have really serious issues and you need a real doctor.



I figured some individual may look at it that way but I would rather not discuss the full extent of my injuries. You can conclude whatever you like but I am alive and doing very well based on my experience prescribed by a Dr. Chiropractic medicine. Have a good day.I wish you all the best dvcochran !


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## jobo (Apr 18, 2019)

vince1 said:


> I figured some individual may look at it that way but I would rather not discuss the full extent of my injuries. You can conclude whatever you like but I am alive and doing very well based on my experience prescribed by a Dr. Chiropractic medicine. Have a good day.I wish you all the best dvcochran !


are you saying a doctor prescribed  a chiropodist, or are you claiming chiropractors  are REAL doctors above you said a doctor wanted to operate and you decided to go to a adjuster instead. 

fine if that works for you, but your recommending it to others


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 18, 2019)

vince1 said:


> Makes no difference as to the approach a chiropractor will take, it's all connected, he/she will make an assessment based on x-rays , symptoms etc.. My hips are adjusted once a week as well as legs, ankles, neck area spine etc. I use to go 3 times a week for many months an now I go once a week sometimes every other week. If your hip is out of alignment it affects your knee. If your elbow is bothering you it can be a variety of reasons such shoulder blade needs an alignment which connects to the spine/neck region. Or it can be as simple as cartilage damage in the elbow region that needs deep tissue massage to break up the scaring which increases blood flow to the region to begin the healing process.



I think we're getting off track here and getting more into who is right. 

This is not what I am going for, my apologies if I gave that impression. But you have in your response the point I am trying to make about going to a doctor. Make sure you know what the injury actually is before you get it treated. You mentioned x-rays, that is more to my point. You need the professional opinion of a medical professional, Which is why in a previous response I was not at all for going to a massage therapist, they have no idea what your injury is, unless you have had it evaluated, previously by a medical professional, who then recommended a massage therapist. Speaking as one who has has also dealt with a multitude of injuries over the years, both with and without medical advice and sometimes against medical advice, you need a professional medical person evaluation of your injuries and they also need to be honest enough to tell you exactly what they can and cannot do. And an orthopedic doc who jumps directly to a surgical solution may or may not be acting in the patients best interest, which is why you may also need a second opinion. Same goes for a Chiropractor too. 

I have been to chiropractors that help me immensely and I was at the same chiropractor again when the same injury occurred later, who did more damage than good. But then I have also been to orthopedic docs who were way off the mark too in something that was bloody obvious to every other medical person I knew (I worked in a hospital at that time) 

Today I have a great Orthopedic doc I go to if necessary and I am married to a Traditional Chinese Medical Doctor as well, so I have some advantages that others do not, I get free TCM.

Bottomline and the only point I am trying to make to the OP is, don't ask a bunch of nameless faceless martial artists, who are for the most part not trained in medicine, for medical advice about an injury. When injured, go to a medical professional for an evaluation and let the Pro tell you what to do. And then, if you don't like it, go to another medical professional and see what they have to say. And if they agree, or if you got a good eval in the first place, here is the big thing that I was guilty of not doing in my youth, listen to the medical advice they give you and follow what they tell you, you might just get better and not have to deal with the pain of the injury again. Don't listen (and this is the voice of experience) expect to get hurt again, likely worse than the first time.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2019)

vince1 said:


> Makes no difference as to the approach a chiropractor will take, it's all connected, he/she will make an assessment based on x-rays , symptoms etc.. My hips are adjusted once a week as well as legs, ankles, neck area spine etc. I use to go 3 times a week for many months an now I go once a week sometimes every other week. If your hip is out of alignment it affects your knee. If your elbow is bothering you it can be a variety of reasons such shoulder blade needs an alignment which connects to the spine/neck region. Or it can be as simple as cartilage damage in the elbow region that needs deep tissue massage to break up the scaring which increases blood flow to the region to begin the healing process.


My experience is that some (many? not sure) chiropractors are over-enthusiastic. Especially with neck/back joints, repeated adjustments can create slack that is not good in the long run. My current chiropractor has done post-grad work in orthopedics, and is much more conservative in his approach than those I've used in the past. If there are no nagging issues, he reduces to every 6 weeks, or even to "will call" status (meaning the patient will call to schedule when there's an issue).


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> I'm not disputing some people get benifit from chiropractioners,  but if your going 50 times a year, every year, you are either a Hyprocondriac that being fleesed by a conman or you have really serious issues and you need a real doctor.


That's a lot of hyperbole in one sentence. Some folks have more joint issues, and actually get relief from a chiropractor. If it works, it's useful. I do think weekly treatment is excessive beyond initial remediation of some issues (it took many weeks to get my pelvis to stop rotating off plane, limiting ROM on my right leg).


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> are you saying a doctor prescribed  a chiropodist, or are you claiming chiropractors  are REAL doctors above you said a doctor wanted to operate and you decided to go to a adjuster instead.
> 
> fine if that works for you, but your recommending it to others


A doctor of chiropractic medicine is a title used in the US for chiropractors.


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## jobo (Apr 18, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> A doctor of chiropractic medicine is a title used in the US for chiropractors.


oh, doctor is titled used by people with a phd as well. but I wouldn't be recommending you consult as philosophy of law doctor on your bad back. that's why I said real doctor, a short hand term in this context for a doctor of medicine.

I'm big on self help for injuries and have expressed my view that you can get along just fine with most injuries with out their help, but if your needing three times a week treatment for years at a time,from not a real doctor , I'm sceptical that that treatment is working as efficiency  as it could if you retook the treatment recommended by a real doctor. or if it is having a slow benifit, that you couldn't do much the same yourself with body alignment  exercises.


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## jobo (Apr 18, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> That's a lot of hyperbole in one sentence. Some folks have more joint issues, and actually get relief from a chiropractor. If it works, it's useful. I do think weekly treatment is excessive beyond initial remediation of some issues (it took many weeks to get my pelvis to stop rotating off plane, limiting ROM on my right leg).


I'm not sure what your disagreeing with, I've said some people get benefit,  and you agree, it seems that one or more a week for a period of years is excessive. I supose it depends on how much benifit it gives in real terms, beyond the placebo effect. if those benifits are manifestly greater than you could get by being treated by a doctor of medicinit or self help and if your insurance company are paying for it

my limited experience of them has been all bad, varying  between a substantial existence for no benifit, to being hospitalised by a spinal adjustment that went wrong and a substantial exSpence, which is why the experience is limited, il never trust some muffin to click my vertebrae  again

the problem is you dont know if their uselese / dangerous until you've been hospitalised. and or no way of measuring its efficiency for treating your problem with out a comparator.

I can say from a sample of one, me, which is all any of us can say with anecdotes, that reiki, is a more effective treatment  for bad backs and that's quack new age hoodoo nonsense,  but it worked for me, undoubtedly  through placebo of being finger flicked by an attractive girl,

nb, I got it for free as she was the only girl friend I've staid on friendly terms with, though having me lay naked in his front room used to make her boy friend very upset


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> oh, doctor is titled used by people with a phd as well. but I wouldn't be recommending you consult as philosophy of law doctor on your bad back. that's why I said real doctor, a short hand term in this context for a doctor of medicine.
> 
> I'm big on self help for injuries and have expressed my view that you can get along just fine with most injuries with out their help, but if your needing three times a week treatment for years at a time,from not a real doctor , I'm sceptical that that treatment is working as efficiency  as it could if you retook the treatment recommended by a real doctor. or if it is having a slow benifit, that you couldn't do much the same yourself with body alignment  exercises.


Yeah, except a PhD isn't trained in joints. A DC is. If you don't like chiropractic, that's fine, but consulting a DC isn't nearly the same as consulting someone with a PhD in Fine Arts.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 18, 2019)

Uchimedic said:


> I think the elbow pain is from repeated back and side falls.


If the elbow pain is from breakfalls, then you are probably doing something incorrectly. Proper breakfalls should not be putting strain on your joints.


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## jobo (Apr 18, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, except a PhD isn't trained in joints. A DC is. If you don't like chiropractic, that's fine, but consulting a DC isn't nearly the same as consulting someone with a PhD in Fine Arts.


they have an ordinary degree in joints, that doesn't by any means make them an expert, at best vaguely aware of the theory,  you can get a degree with a 40% score, that means you were 60% wrong in your exam, that's not confidence inspiring, is it


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 19, 2019)

jobo said:


> they have an ordinary degree in joints, that doesn't by any means make them an expert, at best vaguely aware of the theory,  you can get a degree with a 40% score, that means you were 60% wrong in your exam, that's not confidence inspiring, is it


What is your source for that?


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## jobo (Apr 19, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> What is your source for that?


whats the % pass rate for degrees - Google Search


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 19, 2019)

jobo said:


> whats the % pass rate for degrees - Google Search


I didn't see anything in a scan of those search results that suggests a 40% would pass. In most US grading systems, somewhere around 70% is a passing score. In some structures, that shifts to 60%, but I never personally experienced any of those, so I'm not sure how prevalent that is.

As I understand it, the DC degree is essentially a graduate degree (technically, a bachelor's degree isn't required to start, but at least 90 hours of undergrad coursework is). So, they have 4 years of specialized training, on top of their undergrad work.


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## jobo (Apr 19, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I didn't see anything in a scan of those search results that suggests a 40% would pass. In most US grading systems, somewhere around 70% is a passing score. In some structures, that shifts to 60%, but I never personally experienced any of those, so I'm not sure how prevalent that is.
> 
> As I understand it, the DC degree is essentially a graduate degree (technically, a bachelor's degree isn't required to start, but at least 90 hours of undergrad coursework is). So, they have 4 years of specialized training, on top of their undergrad work.


did you open it. they all say that, the very first one spells it out

but here, so you dont have to bother reading it 
Assessment and grades at university : Skills Hub: University of Sussex


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 19, 2019)

jobo said:


> did you open it. they all say that, the very first one spells it out
> 
> but here, so you dont have to bother reading it
> Assessment and grades at university : Skills Hub: University of Sussex


All??? That's laughable, since most of the first results in that search don't even speak to what it take to pass (they speak of how many people pass).

So, you found one school that seems to show 40% as a passing grade, and assumed that's the pass rate everywhere. You're wrong. Very wrong. Here's a search with more applicable results: what is a passing score in us college - Google Search. As you'll see there, most of the references start from the letter grades, and reference either the GPA number (0-4) or percentages (0-100) usually assigned to them.

Going back to the University of Sussex, that page is confusing, but doesn't seem to be saying you can score a 40% overall and still graduate - it includes some weighting factors, but no actual information I can find on how to apply them, nor what the phrase "the undergraduate pass mark is 40%" really means, in relation to those weightings.


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## jobo (Apr 19, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> All??? That's laughable, since most of the first results in that search don't even speak to what it take to pass (they speak of how many people pass).
> 
> So, you found one school that seems to show 40% as a passing grade, and assumed that's the pass rate everywhere. You're wrong. Very wrong. Here's a search with more applicable results: what is a passing score in us college - Google Search. As you'll see there, most of the references start from the letter grades, and reference either the GPA number (0-4) or percentages (0-100) usually assigned to them.
> 
> Going back to the University of Sussex, that page is confusing, but doesn't seem to be saying you can score a 40% overall and still graduate - it includes some weighting factors, but no actual information I can find on how to apply them, nor what the phrase "the undergraduate pass mark is 40%" really means, in relation to those weightings.


they cant set there own pass mark for a national, infact international , considering the number of foreign  students ( including an awful lot of anericans) , qualification, so no it's not just one school, that the whole country,s 40 % is what you need to achieve across  the various eliments, in order to pass, to pass means you walk out with a qualification, in this case a degree. it's the same pass mark  give  or take 5 % for all higher levelee, /professional qualifications with the exception of a phd

I didn't say it was the pass mark every where, , America  is not the whole world you know,
I simply said you can get a degree  with a 40% pass mark, which is true,, but these degrees are accepted across the word, ( including America) so there must be a degree of parity,  perhaps the Americans just make the exam easier, to make themselves look smarter, a reasonable assumption based on the culture


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 19, 2019)

jobo said:


> they cant set there own pass mark for a national, infact international , considering the number of foreign  students ( including an awful lot of anericans) , qualification, so no it's not just one school, that the whole country,s 40 % is what you need to achieve across  the various eliments, in order to pass, to pass means you walk out with a qualification, in this case a degree. it's the same pass mark  give  or take 5 % for all higher levelee, /professional qualifications with the exception of a phd
> 
> I didn't say it was the pass mark every where, , America  is not the whole world you know,
> I simply said you can get a degree  with a 40% pass mark, which is true,, but these degrees are accepted across the word, ( including America) so there must be a degree of parity,  perhaps the Americans just make the exam easier, to make themselves look smarter, a reasonable assumption based on the culture


You have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously.


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## JR 137 (Apr 19, 2019)

jobo said:


> they cant set there own pass mark for a national, infact international , considering the number of foreign  students ( including an awful lot of anericans) , qualification, so no it's not just one school, that the whole country,s 40 % is what you need to achieve across  the various eliments, in order to pass, to pass means you walk out with a qualification, in this case a degree. it's the same pass mark  give  or take 5 % for all higher levelee, /professional qualifications with the exception of a phd
> 
> I didn't say it was the pass mark every where, , America  is not the whole world you know,
> I simply said you can get a degree  with a 40% pass mark, which is true,, but these degrees are accepted across the word, ( including America) so there must be a degree of parity,  perhaps the Americans just make the exam easier, to make themselves look smarter, a reasonable assumption based on the culture


Let’s just say the passing mark in college/university is 40%. So now you have your degree knowing 40% of the coursework. 

What’s the passing score for licensure? Physicians, chiropractors, therapists, et al all have to pass a board exam as well to be able to legally practice. Graduating from medical school doesn’t automatically make you a physician. You can have a doctorate degree in medicine, but that doesn’t automatically give you the right to practice. Same for any other medical field.


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## jobo (Apr 19, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Let’s just say the passing mark in college/university is 40%. So now you have your degree knowing 40% of the coursework.
> 
> What’s the passing score for licensure? Physicians, chiropractors, therapists, et al all have to pass a board exam as well to be able to legally practice. Graduating from medical school doesn’t automatically make you a physician. You can have a doctorate degree in medicine, but that doesn’t automatically give you the right to practice. Same for any other medical field.


nether chiropractic or  physical therapy is a field of medicine,


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## dvcochran (Apr 19, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> I think we're getting off track here and getting more into who is right.
> 
> This is not what I am going for, my apologies if I gave that impression. But you have in your response the point I am trying to make about going to a doctor. Make sure you know what the injury actually is before you get it treated. You mentioned x-rays, that is more to my point. You need the professional opinion of a medical professional, Which is why in a previous response I was not at all for going to a massage therapist, they have no idea what your injury is, unless you have had it evaluated, previously by a medical professional, who then recommended a massage therapist. Speaking as one who has has also dealt with a multitude of injuries over the years, both with and without medical advice and sometimes against medical advice, you need a professional medical person evaluation of your injuries and they also need to be honest enough to tell you exactly what they can and cannot do. And an orthopedic doc who jumps directly to a surgical solution may or may not be acting in the patients best interest, which is why you may also need a second opinion. Same goes for a Chiropractor too.
> 
> ...



I agree with your post. The big qualifier is the part about the healthcare provider being honest enough to tell you their limits and when alternatives are best practice. I would tend to say most Ortho's don't care to know that there are alternatives so I have learned to tread lightly around mine. I think it is the best advise to get multiple opinions, preferably from different fields, especially if a surgical decision has to be made. FWIW, I have learned Not to go to another doctor and say something like "Dr. Xxx says I should have knee surgery. There is too much camaraderie among doctors to disagree too often. I do very much hate the hassle and expense of having to jump through so many hoops however.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 20, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I agree with your post. The big qualifier is the part about the healthcare provider being honest enough to tell you their limits and when alternatives are best practice. I would tend to say most Ortho's don't care to know that there are alternatives so I have learned to tread lightly around mine. I think it is the best advise to get multiple opinions, preferably from different fields, especially if a surgical decision has to be made. FWIW, I have learned Not to go to another doctor and say something like "Dr. Xxx says I should have knee surgery. There is too much camaraderie among doctors to disagree too often. I do very much hate the hassle and expense of having to jump through so many hoops however.


When we moved, I found (by chance) a primary care physician who is a sports medicine doctor. I now recommend trying to find one of these critters for anyone who is in MA. He has a better understanding of joint and muscle issues - and how they affect my activities - than most GP's. Because he works with athletes, he stays up on what the orthopeds are working with (newer treatments, etc.). He's more likely to go for therapy than surgery (in fact, he had me set with a referral for surgery on a badly torn muscle, then changed his mind and went for PT instead, and the surgery was never needed). And one more point -  and I'm not sure if this is because he's a sports doc or just because he's a good doc - he listens a LOT to what I know/feel about my body...he expects me to have that awareness, because of my activities.


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## JR 137 (Apr 20, 2019)

jobo said:


> nether chiropractic or  physical therapy is a field of medicine,


They’re in the medical field. They have licensure requirements, as does every other area of the medical field that I can think of. At least they do here.


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## jobo (Apr 20, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> They’re in the medical field. They have licensure requirements, as does every other area of the medical field that I can think of. At least they do here.


so sticking band aid on a knee if your going to be all inclusive about it.  and that doesn't need a licience


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 20, 2019)

jobo said:


> so sticking band aid on a knee if your going to be all inclusive about it.  and that doesn't need a licience


You're clearly avoiding the actual discussion.


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## dvcochran (Apr 20, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> When we moved, I found (by chance) a primary care physician who is a sports medicine doctor. I now recommend trying to find one of these critters for anyone who is in MA. He has a better understanding of joint and muscle issues - and how they affect my activities - than most GP's. Because he works with athletes, he stays up on what the orthopeds are working with (newer treatments, etc.). He's more likely to go for therapy than surgery (in fact, he had me set with a referral for surgery on a badly torn muscle, then changed his mind and went for PT instead, and the surgery was never needed). And one more point -  and I'm not sure if this is because he's a sports doc or just because he's a good doc - he listens a LOT to what I know/feel about my body...he expects me to have that awareness, because of my activities.


That is a good point, I do tend to deflect/hide/mask my issues when at the docs office. If I think about it, it is easy for me to get appalled about the amount of time I have spent in a doctor office or hospital. It is easy to take that mindset of "I will work through it" and end up with a chronic issue. It is wise to remember that a doctor is an investigator of sorts; the more quality information a patient gives them the easier and more accurate the diagnosis. 
On a side not I will rant about the health system a little. I take a NSAID call Diclofenac. About a year ago I was told I have to go to a pain medicine clinic to get my prescriptions. Part of the big medicine money making wheel? It sure feels like it. So I now have to make an appointment, got set in a room, the doctor and a nurse walks in, nurse takes my BP, the doc looks at me, ask nothing as far as pain level or how I feel, then leaves. Granted it is an every 3-month visit but it just seems so unnecessary.


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## dvcochran (Apr 20, 2019)

jobo said:


> so sticking band aid on a knee if your going to be all inclusive about it.  and that doesn't need a licience


Ok. So what is your point to this? What you are saying is of no help and just deflecting the topic.


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## jobo (Apr 20, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> You're clearly avoiding the actual discussion.


no both you and the other guy are bombarding me with information that contradicts things I haven't said, just thought I'd join in


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 20, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> That is a good point, I do tend to deflect/hide/mask my issues when at the docs office. If I think about it, it is easy for me to get appalled about the amount of time I have spent in a doctor office or hospital. It is easy to take that mindset of "I will work through it" and end up with a chronic issue. It is wise to remember that a doctor is an investigator of sorts; the more quality information a patient gives them the easier and more accurate the diagnosis.
> On a side not I will rant about the health system a little. I take a NSAID call Diclofenac. About a year ago I was told I have to go to a pain medicine clinic to get my prescriptions. Part of the big medicine money making wheel? It sure feels like it. So I now have to make an appointment, got set in a room, the doctor and a nurse walks in, nurse takes my BP, the doc looks at me, ask nothing as far as pain level or how I feel, then leaves. Granted it is an every 3-month visit but it just seems so unnecessary.


Sounds like something from the insurance company, rather than the physicians.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 20, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> That is a good point, I do tend to deflect/hide/mask my issues when at the docs office. If I think about it, it is easy for me to get appalled about the amount of time I have spent in a doctor office or hospital. It is easy to take that mindset of "I will work through it" and end up with a chronic issue. It is wise to remember that a doctor is an investigator of sorts; the more quality information a patient gives them the easier and more accurate the diagnosis.
> On a side not I will rant about the health system a little. I take a NSAID call Diclofenac. About a year ago I was told I have to go to a pain medicine clinic to get my prescriptions. Part of the big medicine money making wheel? It sure feels like it. So I now have to make an appointment, got set in a room, the doctor and a nurse walks in, nurse takes my BP, the doc looks at me, ask nothing as far as pain level or how I feel, then leaves. Granted it is an every 3-month visit but it just seems so unnecessary.



It's an attempt to get things treated by the proper specialist. Chronic pain is best treated by someone who specializes in chronic pain. Just as chronic GI problems are best treated by a Gastroenterologist. Or cardiac arrhythmias by a Cardiologist.

If your visits are as you describe, then I'd recommend changing providers. The specialist should be examining your specific case and trying to find alternative, more effective treatments. If all that's being done is continuing your prior treatment without considering further options, then you're not getting what you're paying for.

I'd also question the need for a 3 month follow up with the pain management clinic. Frequent, close monitoring is necessary for patients on treatments that are prone to abuse, but not for diclofenac (although obviously I don't know what else you're taking, and that could have an impact on the need for frequent follow up).


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## dvcochran (Apr 20, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's an attempt to get things treated by the proper specialist. Chronic pain is best treated by someone who specializes in chronic pain. Just as chronic GI problems are best treated by a Gastroenterologist. Or cardiac arrhythmias by a Cardiologist.
> 
> If your visits are as you describe, then I'd recommend changing providers. The specialist should be examining your specific case and trying to find alternative, more effective treatments. If all that's being done is continuing your prior treatment without considering further options, then you're not getting what you're paying for.
> 
> I'd also question the need for a 3 month follow up with the pain management clinic. Frequent, close monitoring is necessary for patients on treatments that are prone to abuse, but not for diclofenac (although obviously I don't know what else you're taking, and that could have an impact on the need for frequent follow up).


I get a 90 day supply so the 3-month visit is for the refill. As far as pain meds that is it.


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## dvcochran (Apr 20, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Sounds like something from the insurance company, rather than the physicians.


I do wonder. Makes me worry who is steering the boat when I go for a doctor visit sometimes.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 21, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I do wonder. Makes me worry who is steering the boat when I go for a doctor visit sometimes.


As an example, with my foot surgery, I had to have a visit with the orthoped within 35 days before the surgery. He told me that if I scheduled the surgery further out, they'd work with me to get a visit scheduled within the necessary timeframe before the operation. It'd be a visit just to check the box for insurance purposes.


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## Jeff_Beish (Apr 26, 2019)

Learn the correct way of ukemi.  Judo done incorrectly leads to joint problems.    While I have not practiced Judo in many years and at age 78 I had my knees replaced in 2009 and am walking just fine.  My hips still hurt from arthritis.  I practiced Judo from 1952 until 1989, but could have gone on.  It got boring.


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## dvcochran (Apr 26, 2019)

Jeff_Beish said:


> Learn the correct way of ukemi.  Judo done incorrectly leads to joint problems.    While I have not practiced Judo in many years and at age 78 I had my knees replaced in 2009 and am walking just fine.  My hips still hurt from arthritis.  I practiced Judo from 1952 until 1989, but could have gone on.  It got boring.


My radar goes off every time I hear someone talk about knee replacements. If I may ask you a few questions:
Did you have both knees done at the same time?
Do you know the kind or name of the hardware used?
Would you do it again?

Thank you


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## Jeff_Beish (Apr 27, 2019)

Yes, both against the doctors advice; however, since both were completely shot and bone against bone he did it anyway.  It was not all that difficult and yes, I would do it again.  I have forgotten what material joints he used, sorry.  Going on a decade so my memory is foggy.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 27, 2019)

What is the expected lifespan of replacement knees these days?


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## dvcochran (Apr 27, 2019)

It seems to be around 5-15 years based on personal health factors and use. I have been reading how big a factor circulation plays in joint health and leg issues. It has been some interesting research. Very much akin to my understanding of hydraulics. I am planning to setup some screening to measure the circulation flow/pressure in my upper leg compared to my lower leg on vein and artery (supply/return). This was a big issue for my mother (lifetime smoker) who had an artificial Aorta Y where it splits at your lower abdomen to go to each leg. Before I go down the surgery road with my knees I want to make certain my circulation it good.


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## Tez3 (Apr 27, 2019)

jobo said:


> they have an ordinary degree in joints,



Oh there's so many jokes there I can't even begin.....


The 40% pass rate thing, you need to read the regulations. 
"A degree is made up of a number of individual modules.  Each module is worth a set number of credits *(please refer to regulation 1.2.2)*.  Undergraduate students must register on modules worth 120 credits per stage (i.e. per academic year, if studying full-time). To progress to the next stage or be awarded a degree, undergraduate students must achieve 120 credits in the stage, as well as the required stage mean (40% on foundation and undergraduate courses at FHEQ levels 3-6 and 50% on undergraduate integrated masters courses at level 7, unless there is a higher progression threshold).  *(Please refer to regulation 1.4.3)*.  The exam board may award up to 30 credits per stage via compensation, trailed credit or condoned credit.  *(Further information is provided below)*."

Examination and Assessment Regulations FAQs for Undergraduate Students : Examinations and Assessment : ...  : Academic Development and Quality Enhancement : University of Sussex


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 27, 2019)

Tez3 said:


> Oh there's so many jokes there I can't even begin.....
> 
> 
> The 40% pass rate thing, you need to read the regulations.
> ...


I'm still not clear what that 40% is, Tez. Did it make actual sense to you? Maybe I need to read it with a British accent?


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## Tez3 (Apr 27, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I'm still not clear what that 40% is, Tez. Did it make actual sense to you? Maybe I need to read it with a British accent?



It's actually the minimum number of credits you need to pass each module of your course. Exams are in January and May, often also in July. Most courses carry 120 credits per year, so three lots of exams will give you a pass, there's also assessments. You will never get much higher than probably 70-75% though this American says he was told 60% but as he said uni here is very different from your unis.
5 differences between going to college in the US vs the UK


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