# New TOW is up!



## Gary Crawford (Jun 14, 2004)

The Tow is up and definatlt a must see!http://www.ltatum.com/movies/Week30/TipOfTheWeekMedW30.html


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## oldnewbie (Jun 15, 2004)

And it keeps getting beter every week.!!!


Very good stuff!


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## ob2c (Jun 23, 2004)

oldnewbie said:
			
		

> And it keeps getting beter every week.!!!



Yup! I agree!


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## Bill Lear (Jun 24, 2004)

The Tip Of The Week Clips are the most generous contribution that Larry Tatum has made to the Kenpo Community. In the Tips he doesn't just show you how to do one technique, but he addresses principles of motion that can be applied in several different places of your art. I cannot even begin to tell you how much I appreciate his help during the course of a regular day that the Pasadena Studio (ten minutes of help from Larry can go a LONG way).

I'm looking forward to the next one.  :ultracool


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## jeffkyle (Jun 24, 2004)

I look forward to EVERY one!


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## howardr (Jun 24, 2004)

Mr. Tatum is certainly very fast. His 5-Swords variation was interesting. However, I'm curious why there aren't really any dummy reactions to speak of in this tip of the week. Could the technique come off as demonstrated, i.e., be as fast with the targets in the location shown, if his strikes were actually making (full) contact on an engaging opponent? I wonder what his theory is regarding dummy reactions in training.


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## rmcrobertson (Jun 24, 2004)

I believe this discussion has already been done to death, including the part where people like me ask others to just come out and say what they mean, rather than insinuating it. 

Without repeating those extended and varied earlier discussions, let me simply note that they took up the matter of exactly what these Tips are meant to demonstrate.

However, howardr, if it helps, Mr. Tatum spends a great deal of time teaching the likes of me how to dummy up better--which includes repeated and extended drills on intelligent reaction. Additionally, he has long been insistent that kenpo techniques rely upon opponent's reactions (for example, the attempt to pivot towards you) for their general strategies and specific movements. 

Is that the sort of answer you had in mind?


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## Seig (Jun 24, 2004)

I thought his question was rather straight forward. How does proper bodily reaction from the dummy effect Mr. Tatum's targeting, if at all?


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## Seig (Jun 24, 2004)

What I found most interesting about the technique is that it seemed to open up with the initial sequence of Chinese Junk.


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## Bill Lear (Jun 24, 2004)

Seig said:
			
		

> What I found most interesting about the technique is that it seemed to open up with the initial sequence of Chinese Junk.



Chinese Junk?


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## Ceicei (Jun 24, 2004)

I'm really impressed with how Larry Tatum does his TOW.  He definitely earned his reputation of being an outstanding kenpoist.

- Ceicei


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## howardr (Jun 25, 2004)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> I believe this discussion has already been done to death, including the part where people like me ask others to just come out and say what they mean, rather than insinuating it.
> 
> Without repeating those extended and varied earlier discussions, let me simply note that they took up the matter of exactly what these Tips are meant to demonstrate.
> 
> ...



Yes it was. Thank you - that's very reassuring to hear.

BTW, I don't believe I was part of the discussion you were referring to nor do I recall a discussion which addressed my specific point. I wasn't being disingenuous nor, I think, hypercritical. I simply wished to raise an issue that I believe is a legitimate concern.


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## Bill Lear (Jun 25, 2004)

howardr said:
			
		

> Mr. Tatum is certainly very fast. His 5-Swords variation was interesting. However, I'm curious why there aren't really any dummy reactions to speak of in this tip of the week. Could the technique come off as demonstrated, i.e., be as fast with the targets in the location shown, if his strikes were actually making (full) contact on an engaging opponent? I wonder what his theory is regarding dummy reactions in training.



He was breaking it down, and actually going a little bit slower to accent the modified targets in the technique. When he does this one off camera, he does it quite fast. I've been his uke on this one before, and I have to tell you that I had little time to react before he was done with the entire technique.

I know that if he were doing the technique at the same speed as shown in the video, the opponent would have time to react, and anatomical positioning would become a factor (i.e. Jon's hands would come up to his face after the eye poke, making targets unavailable, etc...). In actual application, Larry moves faster than his opponent's reaction. Does this violate the idea of Monitoring, Adjusting, and Regulating? I'd say it does. Does that mean it's wrong. NOPE. There are exceptions to every rule, even in Kenpo. At least that's my take on it.

I hope I helped. :asian:


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## The Kai (Jun 25, 2004)

I just got a chance to check out the TOW.  Very cool, please encourage Mr. Tatum to post as many as he wants


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## Bill Lear (Jun 25, 2004)

The Kai said:
			
		

> I just got a chance to check out the TOW.  Very cool, please encourage Mr. Tatum to post as many as he wants



You won't have to worry about the Tip Of The Week vanishing any time too soon. It's my understanding that he intends to run with it for a while.  :ultracool


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## Michael Billings (Jun 25, 2004)

Awsome as usual.  Convey my thanks.

-Michael


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## Seig (Jun 25, 2004)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> Chinese Junk?


we'll discuss it


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## Michael Billings (Jun 25, 2004)

Seig,

 It is a variation of the older Parker/Tracy lineage Chinese Junk.  I see it, but remember how much harder Chinese Junk used to be for me ... I wonder why it was harder, when it was essentially the same technique, just sans principles & concepts (like Point of Origin, Checking Width, etc.)

 Funny thing how time seems to make the techniques easier .. that and Mr. Parker's continuing evolution.

 -Michael


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## howardr (Jun 28, 2004)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> He was breaking it down, and actually going a little bit slower to accent the modified targets in the technique. When he does this one off camera, he does it quite fast. I've been his uke on this one before, and I have to tell you that I had little time to react before he was done with the entire technique.



But, I wonder if he had been executing each strike with full (or close to  full) contact, if you would not have reacted to the strikes. He may be hitting with a certain amount of safe contact. However, I can't imagine he is hitting anywhere near full penetration because then, I would suspect, you'd be falling to the ground after the first few strikes (or at least violently moving your body in reaction). If full contact strikes would not cause these sort of reactions then I would say that there was something wrong with the strikes. Maybe I'm just missing something here.



> I know that if he were doing the technique at the same speed as shown in the video, the opponent would have time to react, and anatomical positioning would become a factor (i.e. Jon's hands would come up to his face after the eye poke, making targets unavailable, etc...). In actual application, Larry moves faster than his opponent's reaction. Does this violate the idea of Monitoring, Adjusting, and Regulating? I'd say it does. Does that mean it's wrong. NOPE. There are exceptions to every rule, even in Kenpo. At least that's my take on it.
> 
> I hope I helped. :asian:



It does help. Thank you.

It did cause me to think of something else though. So, why doesn't Jon show the reactions? You acknowledge that if he had been doing the technique at the same speed as shown in the video then the opponent would have time to react. But, then you say that he actually moves faster than his opponent's reaction when performed "for real." Now perhaps Mr. Tatum can strike that fast effectively (before the opponent has time to react) but for Kenpo students who do not share his amazing speed, how does this help them (in fact, I see this as being potentially detrimental as students try to mimic their instructors without the underlying body mechanics and end of flailing ineffectively)?

In other words, he doesn't show (or his dummy doesn't at least) reactions in the clip when, in your own words, you said at that speed the opponent would react. And then you say that in actual application the opponent wouldn't have time to react. But, I would think, for the student learning the material that they should see, understand, and practice for opponent reactions because for them that is realistic and not moving so fast that the opponent doesn't have time to react.

I know Mr. Robertson earlier pointed out that this is covered in class (opponent reactions). But for a technique tip I would think that this would be of  paramount importance, especially since you recognize that at the speed shown the opponent *would* react and that, as I maintain, the normal person (certainly beginner) cannot execute per Mr. Tatum faster than the opponent *can* react.

(Oh, I think I'm engaging in a bit of prolix....excuse me...)

Thanks.


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## Dark Kenpo Lord (Jun 28, 2004)

howardr said:
			
		

> But, I wonder if he had been executing each strike with full (or close to full) contact, if you would not have reacted to the strikes. He may be hitting with a certain amount of safe contact. However, I can't imagine he is hitting anywhere near full penetration because then, I would suspect, you'd be falling to the ground after the first few strikes (or at least violently moving your body in reaction). If full contact strikes would not cause these sort of reactions then I would say that there was something wrong with the strikes. Maybe I'm just missing something here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
It's JUST A TIP for Christ's sake.    Try it out, see how you like it, make it work for you, AAARRRRRRRGGGGHH.   

DarK LorD


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## howardr (Jun 28, 2004)

Dark Kenpo Lord said:
			
		

> It's JUST A TIP for Christ's sake.    Try it out, see how you like it, make it work for you, AAARRRRRRRGGGGHH.
> 
> DarK LorD




That's true. It is just a short video clip and I should have been more cognizant of that fact. It's really easy to criticize a clip. And, as we know, it is impossible to please everyone all of the time.


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## DavidCC (Jul 13, 2004)

On another forum somebody was asking about some of these TOW clips.  He asked, why does Larry stomp when he punches and slap himslef with his off-hand when he strikes.  This can be seen in the "High Five" clip among others.

I think I understand the stomping as a technique to shift your body weight into the punch.  But I am not sure that is what he is doing.  I have no idea about the slapping.  IN fact, his body occludes the actual "slap" so I can't be sure that is even what he is doing...  can somebody enlighten me please? (and in turn I will take that knowledge back to the other board )

Thanks!
David


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