# What's going on in France?



## sgtmac_46 (Nov 6, 2005)

I thought France was a paradise of tolerance, social equality and general happiness.  What gives?  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9940332/

According to the eminent sage,Mohammed Rezzoug, this is all just a cry for attention.  As he put it, the youth are saying, by setting fire to buildings and structures " 'I exist, I'm here.' "

Oh well, best to ignore the youths until they get their repressed rage out.  To interfer would only serve to lower their self-esteem.  Perhaps building another football field will help.


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## Solidman82 (Nov 6, 2005)

Wow! you'd think that in order to say,"I exist, I'm here!" you would just have to do something like get on top of a car and scream it. Those pesky french kids take it one step further though it seems.


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 6, 2005)

Solidman82 said:
			
		

> Wow! you'd think that in order to say,"I exist, I'm here!" you would just have to do something like get on top of a car and scream it. Those pesky french kids take it one step further though it seems.


 Couldn't they just spray paint their name on a wall or something?


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## mantis (Nov 6, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> I thought France was a paradise of tolerance, social equality and general happiness.  What gives?
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9940332/
> ...


what are you talking about man?
europe is the mother of all racism worldwide man
compare the british reaction to the london attacks to the US reaction to 9/11... man, those euro's are crazy racist..
also check out what the brits are doing too man... it's just unbelievable that those things exist in the 21st century


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## arnisador (Nov 6, 2005)

It's really out of control there. What a mess.


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## mantis (Nov 6, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> It's really out of control there. What a mess.


governments all around the world just do not want to listen to what people wanna say.
adding more pressure will only make people explode
props to those who are fighting for their freedom... respects and salute


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 6, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> governments all around the world just do not want to listen to what people wanna say.
> adding more pressure will only make people explode
> props to those who are fighting for their freedom... respects and salute


 Exactly what "freedom" is gained by burning a nursery school the ground.  This is the problem with hyperbolic statements, they tend to gloss over the reality...a bunch of young brigands who are revelling in destruction...they are nothing but Thugs.  

If find it interesting what touched all this off...Two youths electrocuted THEMSELVES hiding in a power plant, and it's blamed on the police because it is believed they were hiding from the POLICE?! :erg:


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 7, 2005)

It seems as though things are intensifying.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/

It's apparent that Chirac's threats that the offending parties will be "arrested, judged and punished&#8221; isn't working as a deterant.  This shouldn't be a surprise, as mob violence thrives on anonymity.  These youths have no real belief that they will be punished after this is over, because they have no belief that they will be singled out and caught.  The only way to end mob violence, is to make the participants think as individuals again.  Perhaps they should declare martial law and start shooting anyone engaged in acts of arson and violence on sight.  

What's furthermore, with regards to premises, in the US it is perfectly legal for law enforcement and private citizens to shoot someone who is engage in an imminent act of arson.  

On a side note, it is not likely that this type of wide-spread violence would happen in the US.  Though we have had large scale riots in places such as Detroit, LA, and others, they tend to stay localized.  Everyone remembers what happened when rioters tried to expand the LA riots in to other areas...They were confronted by armed Asian store owners who used small arms fire to repell rioters who wanted to burn their stores.  This kind of large scale rioting in the US would simply result in a lot of dead thugs...some by the police, most by private citizens. 

Even in Louisiana, though it wasn't widely reported, neighbors in several sub-communities banded together to prevent lawless individuals from attacking their homes and their families.  Many of these people were labelled as "racist" for not simply rolling over and allowing themselves to be robbed...oh well, better demonized than victimized.


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## MJS (Nov 7, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> If find it interesting what touched all this off...Two youths electrocuted THEMSELVES hiding in a power plant, and it's blamed on the police because it is believed they were hiding from the POLICE?! :erg:


 
But oh so typical though!!!  Seems like that is the trend.  Run from the cops, crash your car, get hurt, blame the cops.  Resist arrest, lead the cops on a foot pursuit, get slammed to the ground and its brutality.  I guess some people just can't take the blame for their own careless actions.  

Mike


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## arnisador (Nov 7, 2005)

It's spread to 300 towns?!?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051107...VngelIB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

It even says it's spreading to Belgium and Germany...there's the European Union for you.

This is amazing. Frightening, but amazing.


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## Phoenix44 (Nov 7, 2005)

> I thought France was a paradise of tolerance, social equality and general happiness. What gives?


 
You're kidding, right?  These people invented the Reign of Terror!  They stormed THE BASTILLE for cryin' out loud.

Seriously, it's a horrorshow.


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## mantis (Nov 7, 2005)

Phoenix44 said:
			
		

> You're kidding, right? These people invented the Reign of Terror! They stormed THE BASTILLE for cryin' out loud.
> 
> Seriously, it's a horrorshow.


now it's germany and Belgium too..
all those are super racist countries...
but france is the first so-called democratic "civilized" country that becomes a police state..
the president Jack Chirac is becoming a saddam hussien there!


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 7, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> now it's germany and Belgium too..
> all those are super racist countries...
> but france is the first so-called democratic "civilized" country that becomes a police state..
> the president Jack Chirac is becoming a saddam hussien there!


 
I'm no Chirac fan, but it seems to me that his main problem is that he isn't being decisive on this civil unrest.  These thugs are throwing molotov cocktails at police! That seems to be an act that would justify lethal force to restore order.  Sure, the media will demonize the police and government, but....they're going to do that anyway.  It's better to be demonized AND decisive, than demonized and ineffective.  

Restore order THEN deal with the fallout.  1 day of mob lawlessness, ended aggressively and assertively results in FAR LESS negative publicity than 10 days of unrestrained destructive rioting.


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## mantis (Nov 7, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> I'm no Chirac fan, but it seems to me that his main problem is that he isn't being decisive on this civil unrest. These thugs are throwing molotov cocktails at police! That seems to be an act that would justify lethal force to restore order. Sure, the media will demonize the police and government, but....they're going to do that anyway. It's better to be demonized AND decisive, than demonized and ineffective.
> 
> Restore order THEN deal with the fallout. 1 day of mob lawlessness, ended aggressively and assertively results in FAR LESS negative publicity than 10 days of unrestrained destructive rioting.


basically wipe them out first
put them in jail
treat them as terrorists
then say "what do you guys need?"
the difference between you and me is I understand these are people fighting for their freedom and social rights... but u see them as thugs.
my eyes  show me the french police as thugs.. oh, or maybe because the people leading the riots are africans and arabs?
im not looking for trouble... but if u remember the news for the past 2 months u notice how many buildings were burnt while the immigrants are INSIDE of them and the police or mr. chirac didnt do JACK, right?
please dont get me wrong, i dont want to start trouble on this thread, or with you personally, but i really think those people should be given an ear first....
remember, those are only hungry people.. just feed em.. aye


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 7, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> basically wipe them out first
> put them in jail
> treat them as terrorists
> then say "what do you guys need?"
> ...


 
Hungry people?  Expressing their hunger by burning down nursery SCHOOLS?! hahahaha!  They are not fighting for anything, they are violent thugs who see a chance to burn everything in sight and destroy.  The fact that you feel such behavior should be rewarded with asinine statements of "understanding" shows how truly out of touch you are with reality.

Pop quiz.  You're a working class person, and a group of thugs comes along and sets your car and building on fire, how much understanding do you think they deserve?  Are you suggesting their "angst" justifies destroying what belongs to you?  Thuggery like this destroys the lives and property of innocent people, but apparently you think that's perfectly justified for some nebulous complaint.  I say bring these thugs under control by whatever means are necessary.


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## mantis (Nov 7, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Hungry people? Expressing their hunger by burning down nursery SCHOOLS?! hahahaha! They are not fighting for anything, they are violent thugs who see a chance to burn everything in sight and destroy. The fact that you feel such behavior should be rewarded with asinine statements of "understanding" shows how truly out of touch you are with reality.
> 
> Pop quiz. You're a working class person, and a group of thugs comes along and sets your car and building on fire, how much understanding do you think they deserve? Are you suggesting their "angst" justifies destroying what belongs to you? Thuggery like this destroys the lives and property of innocent people, but apparently you think that's perfectly justified for some nebulous complaint. I say bring these thugs under control by whatever means are necessary.


ur only looking at half of the story
the half that governments say...
the thugs are governments who couldnt guarantee those CITIZENS' rights of having a respectable jobs, or even their safety
those people have been burned live in their poor homes (they're ghettoes actually) and the government didnt do nothing
who's the thug now my friend?
who's the criminal?
dont those people have the right to defend themselves?
well i'll tell u what.. only ONE child, or one person who was burned alive is worth more than nursery schools... not that nursery schools will help those people when they're sick.
btw, most of these people are intellegent people who either graduated or go to college. 
they just cant tolerate being opressed for the rest of their lives.
You sound like people from the 60s who didnt want to grant the americans from an african origin their social lives.
they were called thugs too!
they burned los angeles too, right?

i wanna support my opinion with this article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4415018.stm
good discussion, thanks


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## arnisador (Nov 7, 2005)

Hungry people? Let them eat cake!


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## mantis (Nov 7, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Hungry people? Let them eat cake!


lol...
okay u just know where to place a joke man
i give u that
good one


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 8, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> ur only looking at half of the story
> the half that governments say...
> the thugs are governments who couldnt guarantee those CITIZENS' rights of having a respectable jobs, or even their safety
> those people have been burned live in their poor homes (they're ghettoes actually) and the government didnt do nothing
> ...


 
Explain to me, again, what mindless thugery and violence has to do with making a political statement.  What does burning other poor people's homes and property prove other than they are nothing but criminals.  The mentality displayed by these folks isn't that of thoughtful people making a statement, it is soccer hooligan mentality.  They aren't burning to make anything better, they are doing it because they are enjoying the anonymous destruction.  Your attempts to spin this as some sort of understandable act is nothing but a complete distortion of reality.  

Now you're calling me a racist? lol.  Here it comes....

As for your article, it doesn't do anything but illustrate the true failure of the lauded socialist systems throughout Europe.  All those listed social programs...have FAILED?!  Perhaps if they had been concentrating on economic development and jobs, instead of entitlement programs, the youth would be working gainfully instead of developing an entitlement mentality that says that if they don't get what they demand, they'll BURN THE CITIES!!!!  Instead, all that youthful energy would be directed to actually working for a living.  It's clear, if you can burn a building to the ground, surely you can work.


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 8, 2005)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/

Perfect example of what i'm talking about

"The opposition Socialists said Villepin had not done enough to give hope to those people in areas hit by the unrest"

The opposition Socialists would attack the government no matter what, whether they were too aggressive or too indecisive.  As I said before, it's better to be labelled indecisive.  

An aggressive response that ended the attacks on the first day would have been criticized by the Socialists for a couple of days, but the media would get bored and go to other news, because there wasn't dramatic pictures of rioters and vehicles burning.  

Again, decisive GOOD, confused and ineffective BAD.

I also find it ironic that socialists believe the answer to failed social programs are promises of MORE faulty social programs.  It's ironic that government give aways never seem to improve people's lives in the long wrong.  I'm curious if unemployment isn't so high as a result of socialist programs designed to restrict employers ability to compete.  Ironic.

At any rate, the most successful skill socialists have is their awe-inspiring ability to spin the failures of THEIR programs, as being the fault of their opposition.


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## Makalakumu (Nov 8, 2005)

I'm not so sure one can put the blame on socialism.  I think the problem is deeper.  All across Europe, you have a generation of immigrants that was brought in to rebuild after WWII.  There was a lot of work to do...heck, the entire continent looked the the aftermath of Katrina!  After the work was finished though, all of these people were pushed aside.  The European governments turned their backs on them.  

Now, there lives resemble the lives of many mexican immigrants in the US.  Poor jobs.  Poor working conditions.  Poor living conditions.  Poorly educated.  Poisoned.  Hungery.  Etc.  Its only a matter of time before we see this here.  All we need is for the population of underepresented and exploited people to reach a tipping point.

Socialism or Capitalism, if people are unhappy and treated poorly, they will make it known.


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## Brother John (Nov 8, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/
> 
> "The opposition Socialists said Villepin had not done enough to give hope to those people in areas hit by the unrest"
> 
> The opposition Socialists would attack the government no matter what, whether they were too aggressive or too indecisive. As I said before, it's better to be labelled indecisive. .


 
socialism prevents hope.


Your Bro.
John


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## arnisador (Nov 8, 2005)

Now they have curfews and a state of emergency.


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## mantis (Nov 8, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Explain to me, again, what mindless thugery and violence has to do with making a political statement. What does burning other poor people's homes and property prove other than they are nothing but criminals. The mentality displayed by these folks isn't that of thoughtful people making a statement, it is soccer hooligan mentality. They aren't burning to make anything better, they are doing it because they are enjoying the anonymous destruction. Your attempts to spin this as some sort of understandable act is nothing but a complete distortion of reality.





			
				sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Now you're calling me a racist? lol.  Here it comes....
> 
> As for your article, it doesn't do anything but illustrate the true failure of the lauded socialist systems throughout Europe. All those listed social programs...have FAILED?! Perhaps if they had been concentrating on economic development and jobs, instead of entitlement programs, the youth would be working gainfully instead of developing an entitlement mentality that says that if they don't get what they demand, they'll BURN THE CITIES!!!! Instead, all that youthful energy would be directed to actually working for a living. It's clear, if you can burn a building to the ground, surely you can work.


alright
why dont u go ahead and tell me what you would do...
tell me how they should gain their civil rights back
btw, the police is the one who triggered violence by throwing a gas bomb inside of a small mosque... 
those young men are protesting because they NEED A JOB... why dont u do ur hw and read the news man.. they are the ones asking to be productive, but the government locks them in ghettoes, starves them, and then burn them!
not only that, just like american ghettoes, they starve them, then somehow drugs become accessible, and you find a liquor store at each corner in their alleys so a person, like yourself, considers them gangsters, savages, and THUGS for the rest of their lives.
ur american man, u of all people should understand a battle for freedom.... and for civil rights.. unless u sympathize with KKK or something 
americans are bombing countries in the name of freedom, and now u curse people who seek it?


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## bushi jon (Nov 8, 2005)

The problem is people are making excuses for bad behavior. Most of the people that are causing the trouble are young immigrants that came to France for a better life through hand outs then when they realised the land of milk and honey did not appear before there feet they became bitter.It is my understanding(as wrong as it may be)that the french made it real hard to attract employers(high taxes,35 hour work week, long paid lunches) and when you do that the imigrant will always be on the losing side for the better paying jobs. The French Govt needs to rethink the way they run there country. I would like to remind people the single worst thing we did here in the states was to create welfare programs because we created a sub class of people that expect the govt to give them hand outs


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## mantis (Nov 8, 2005)

bushi jon said:
			
		

> The problem is people are making excuses for bad behavior. Most of the people that are causing the trouble are young immigrants that came to France for a better life through hand outs then when they realised the land of milk and honey did not appear before there feet they became bitter.It is my understanding(as wrong as it may be)that the french made it real hard to attract employers(high taxes,35 hour work week, long paid lunches) and when you do that the imigrant will always be on the losing side for the better paying jobs. The French Govt needs to rethink the way they run there country. I would like to remind people the single worst thing we did here in the states was to create welfare programs because we created a sub class of people that expect the govt to give them hand outs


good argument
but just so ur clear on something
Here in the US if ur chinese born in the US ur automatically american, and if you gain the citizenship then ur american (except when  are told to go back where u came from)
but in france if you are born in france, or great great grand father is born in france, or if you just immigrated, or you immigrated 40 years ago and gained ur citizenship you are still called "immigrant". Immigrant in french gov't's terms doesnt necessarily mean youre not a citizen.
nevertheless ur never treated as a "french" person, i.e. white, frankofon, and catholic


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## Brother John (Nov 8, 2005)

bushi jon said:
			
		

> The problem is people are making excuses for bad behavior.
> 
> I would like to remind people the single worst thing we did here in the states was to create welfare programs because we created a sub class of people that expect the govt to give them hand outs


 
EXCELLENT BRILLIANT POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your Brother
John


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## Makalakumu (Nov 8, 2005)

I would like to remind everyone that most of us wouldn't be as healthy, educated, or as wealthy without many of these so called _government handouts_.


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## Brother John (Nov 8, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I would like to remind everyone that most of us wouldn't be as healthy, educated, or as wealthy without many of these so called _government handouts_.


This'd be the point where we just have a differnce of opinion...
I don't think that the 'handouts' haven't done anything very positive.

still got lots O' respect for you though...

Your Brother
John


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## qizmoduis (Nov 8, 2005)

bushi jon said:
			
		

> I would like to remind people the single worst thing we did here in the states was to create welfare programs because we created a sub class of people that expect the govt to give them hand outs



Completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic.  Please move on to the next conservative talking point.


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## Flatlander (Nov 8, 2005)

There are civilized ways of expressing opinion.  There are peaceful ways to protest.  There are respectable ways of having your voice heard.

There is a significant difference between organized movements and destructive, random behaviour.  I should think that the goal would be to gain understanding and empathy, not inflame hatred and encourage disrespect.

Quite obviously, this is the expression of short sighted, frustrated, and uncoordinated youth.  These appeals are sometimes heard, but rarely understood.  I have no issue with the message - most reasonable people would empathize with the message.  Unfortunately, that message is undermined by the inappropriate delivery, and that is but a further exacerbation of an already difficult problem.

Finger pointing and anger fix nothing.


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## Brother John (Nov 8, 2005)

qizmoduis said:
			
		

> Completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic. Please move on to the next conservative talking point.


I think it's 'related'...but true, he's indicating America in this...and the thread is on France. 
Your Brother
John

PS: Even IF something was a 'conservative talking point', doesn't mean it's wrong. Infact, might mean it Should be talked about.


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## Brother John (Nov 8, 2005)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> There are civilized ways of expressing opinion. There are peaceful ways to protest. There are respectable ways of having your voice heard.
> 
> There is a significant difference between organized movements and destructive, random behaviour. I should think that the goal would be to gain understanding and empathy, not inflame hatred and encourage disrespect.


Agreed!
Their actions aren't about getting a message out, but about releasing anger.

Your Brother
John


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## Xequat (Nov 8, 2005)

So with over a thousand cars on fire, I think that's the best use for a Renault I've seen in years.


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## bushi jon (Nov 8, 2005)

Maybe I should have said this. France is burning because of their creation of a sub class of people. If France would not handed out so many freebees they would not have so many restless people on the dole. France started cutting back its welfare system(for lack of better terms) a few years back which created hard feelings toward the Gvt and the people that do with out hand outs. Leaving me to make this statement unregulated imigration and substandard ways of living create bitterness. It happens here it is happening there thus we have people acting badly and a whole group of people making excuses for them!!!!! I am a cncerv but i am also a believer in the truth.


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## Brother John (Nov 8, 2005)

bushi jon said:
			
		

> I am a cncerv but i am also a believer in the truth.


cncerv jon??????????
what's dat?


Your Brother
John


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## bushi jon (Nov 8, 2005)

A typo concervative


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## Makalakumu (Nov 8, 2005)

I'm not sure that social programs really are the root of this problem in France.  And I think it is high time we defined exactly what a social program is...

...any program/instituion the government pays for...

Since I can't speak for people in France, I'll speak for myself, I've benefitted greatly from social programs.  

1.  The military, police, FD, and EMS have kept me safe.  They've even had to patch me up a time or two.  
2.  When my father became ill, the government helped my mother get enough food for us to eat.
3.  It also provided us with health insurance until my mother could get it on her own.
4.  I recieved a "free" education up until high school.  
5.  I recieved no interest and low interest loans to go to college.

All of these are "handouts" yet I can honestly say that without one of these, I probably wouldn't be where I am today.  None of these are totally responsible for my success.  I really had to work too.

My point is this...social programs don't make sub-classes.  People do.  Social programs raise people up and I am an example (and I think if you take a look at the poverty statistics in this country one would find that I am not alone).

The bottom line is that Frances problem isn't social programs.  It's problem is the neglect of its citizens.  Its problem is inequity.  Its problem is not unique to France.  Look no further then the shanty towns next to the fields that grow your strawberries...and then you'll see France.


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## andy (Nov 9, 2005)

France and it's open border policy toward the muslim youth? is related to the american open border policy? Is that what you imply Upnoth? I ask not as an inflammatory remark I am genuinly curious.:idunno:


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## arnisador (Nov 9, 2005)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051109...s5l8Rus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-



> France's storm of rioting eased Wednesday, with car burnings falling nearly by half, police said. But looters and vandals defied a state of emergency with attacks on superstores, a newspaper warehouse and a subway station



So, better but still not over.


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## qizmoduis (Nov 9, 2005)

bushi jon said:
			
		

> Maybe I should have said this. France is burning because of their creation of a sub class of people. If France would not handed out so many freebees they would not have so many restless people on the dole. France started cutting back its welfare system(for lack of better terms) a few years back which created hard feelings toward the Gvt and the people that do with out hand outs. Leaving me to make this statement unregulated imigration and substandard ways of living create bitterness. It happens here it is happening there thus we have people acting badly and a whole group of people making excuses for them!!!!! I am a cncerv but i am also a believer in the truth.



You're right about the problem being France's treatment of an entire class of people (I hesitate to use the term 'sub-class') being a root cause, but I think you're really stretching into unsupported speculation by blaming it on some kind of welfare system.

Also, nobody's making excuses for them.  The people rioting should be arrested, prosecuted and thrown in fail if found guilty, perhaps even expelled if they aren't citizens.  But you need to understand the difference between excuses and underlying causes.  Trying to identify underlying causes of situations like this is not equivalent to making excuses.  Unfortunately, this type of mistake is a common theme of conservative vitriol against liberals.

Throwing the rioters in jail, while satisfying and necessary, won't solve the problems that led to the riots in the first place.  Neither will handing out money, of course.


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## bignick (Nov 9, 2005)

Talked to my friend in France the other day, and she said that it seemed like the majority of the population in major areas don't seemed at all concerned and are just ignoring it and going about business as usual...


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 10, 2005)

bushi jon said:
			
		

> The problem is people are making excuses for bad behavior. Most of the people that are causing the trouble are young immigrants that came to France for a better life through hand outs then when they realised the land of milk and honey did not appear before there feet they became bitter.It is my understanding(as wrong as it may be)that the french made it real hard to attract employers(high taxes,35 hour work week, long paid lunches) and when you do that the imigrant will always be on the losing side for the better paying jobs. The French Govt needs to rethink the way they run there country. I would like to remind people the single worst thing we did here in the states was to create welfare programs because we created a sub class of people that expect the govt to give them hand outs


 Exactly my point...The very programs designed to punish businesses, also drives them away...leaving everyone standing around shaking their heads and asking "Where did the jobs go?"  :erg:  They probably went where they could be competative.  Socialists never understand economics, and they never will.  They think they can always riot their way to prosperity.


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 10, 2005)

qizmoduis said:
			
		

> You're right about the problem being France's treatment of an entire class of people (I hesitate to use the term 'sub-class') being a root cause, but I think you're really stretching into unsupported speculation by blaming it on some kind of welfare system.
> 
> Also, nobody's making excuses for them. The people rioting should be arrested, prosecuted and thrown in fail if found guilty, perhaps even expelled if they aren't citizens. But you need to understand the difference between excuses and underlying causes. Trying to identify underlying causes of situations like this is not equivalent to making excuses. Unfortunately, this type of mistake is a common theme of conservative vitriol against liberals.
> 
> Throwing the rioters in jail, while satisfying and necessary, won't solve the problems that led to the riots in the first place. Neither will handing out money, of course.


 There's also a difference between a "reason" and an "excuse".  Riots seldom have reasons behind them.  There are often small primers that set off chain reactions, but ultimately, just like a soccer riot, this kind of riot reaches the level where it simply has a momentum far beyond any reasoning.  I would be willing to bet that that vast majority of rioters are doing so purely as entertainment, a chance to burn and destroy with anonymity.  How do I know?  Because that's what most rioters do.  Anyone ever caught up in this kind of mob mentality will understand.  The way to end the riots is to force the rioters to start thinking as individuals.  No amount of "reasoning" will stop it, as, once the group think begins, reasoning goes out the window.  Force the rioters to think as individuals by making it risky and painful to continue rioting.  They will disperse.

THEN you discuss the social issues.


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