# Knee trouble?



## Argus (Apr 4, 2013)

So, I don't know if this is the best place to ask for physical / medical advice, but I thought it might be a good idea to hear from some more experienced practitioners.

I've been learning Wing Chun for about 6 months now from a good instructor, and for the most part, I haven't had any physical trouble. I'm a very small, thin, and light person by American standards, so it suits me pretty well. 

However, for the last few months I've been having a bit of trouble with my knees. I've never had knee trouble in the past - I'm fairly young (25), and in decent shape except, perhaps, for my legs, which are somewhat weak and under-developed. It's taken me a while to be able to stand in YJKYM and step comfortably for extended periods of time. And while aside from having to build up endurance in my calves, this hadn't been affecting me much, it (or something) has begun to affect my knees.

Come to think about it, my knee trouble probably began around the time I started Chum Kiu (and started really spending time sitting in the stance, stepping, and turning). What I am feeling in my knees (and sometimes just one knee or the other) is a mild burning sensation or very mild pain. 

In trying to strengthen my legs, I once (and only once) attempted to do a squat, and immediately felt a lot of irritation in my knees. I've taken this as a warning, and haven't attempted it again. I've also been very careful not to bend my knees too much while stretching, and have even taken care with my stance, but the problem persists.

Could this just be a result of the muscle around my knees being under-developed, and just something that needs time? Is there a safe way to practice and exercise my legs without damaging my knees?


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## Cyriacus (Apr 4, 2013)

Underdeveloped on a medical level, or just i-didnt-work-out-very-much underdeveloped?

Either way, it could just be a strained (that may not be the technical word) muscle that you keep aggravating.


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## jks9199 (Apr 4, 2013)

I can't give you wing chun or medical advice.  But... if you want to strengthen your legs, squats are a great exercise.  But you need to learn to do them properly.  Crossfit's website has some nice videos and notes.  The knee pain you describe in doing the squat sounds a lot like you might be off in your form there -- but there's no substitute for actually having someone who knows what they're doing look at you.  Start with your simple body weight (some people call these "prisoner squats") -- and slowly work up, if you want to.  You can do a lot of excellent strength work with body weight exercises like air squats/prisoner squats, lunges, and so on.  (Push ups & pull ups are other examples for the upper body... but you didn't ask about the upper body.)


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## Argus (Apr 4, 2013)

Cyriacus said:


> Underdeveloped on a medical level, or just i-didnt-work-out-very-much underdeveloped?
> 
> Either way, it could just be a strained (that may not be the technical word) muscle that you keep aggravating.



_i-didnt-work-out-very-much_ kind of underdeveloped. I spend most of my time working at my computer.


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## Cyriacus (Apr 4, 2013)

Argus said:


> _i-didnt-work-out-very-much_ kind of underdeveloped. I spend most of my time working at my computer.


Well, that wouldnt cause it. Youve just done something to it, so let it heal then improve your form or format.

I work at a computer 5 days a week, and i spend most of my free time on one. My knees are fine, so if thats anything to go by then youre just doing something wrong


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## yak sao (Apr 4, 2013)

My knees starting bothering me when I started CK as well. Have your sifu scrutinize your stance. You may be out past your toes with your knees.
But if you have strained it, even if you start doing it perfectly fine, it will bother you, so give it time to heal up, you know the drill, rest and ice and anti inflammatories....a good natural one is *bromelain.*
Keep your stance a little on the high side while you allow it to get better and slowly work back to proper depth.

And always see a doctor, don't rely on a bunch of punch drunk chunners for medical advice.

BTW...here's a good squat for bad knees. ( angle your toes out at about 45 degree angles to take stress off the knees)

http://youtu.be/IwRp6nWDKjg


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## mook jong man (Apr 5, 2013)

Argus said:


> So, I don't know if this is the best place to ask for physical / medical advice, but I thought it might be a good idea to hear from some more experienced practitioners.
> 
> I've been learning Wing Chun for about 6 months now from a good instructor, and for the most part, I haven't had any physical trouble. I'm a very small, thin, and light person by American standards, so it suits me pretty well.
> 
> ...



You haven't been doing extremely fast kicks in the air have you?
That can cause pain.

Could be just a strain from the Chum Kiu stepping.
Most , if not all the weight should be placed on that back leg , at least it is in our lineage anyway.
That puts quite a lot of pressure on one leg.
But you will get used to it.

I would stay away from doing squats with heavy weights , I believe they are not conducive to having a relaxed and springy stance.

You could try performing the Chair Gwun preparation exercise for learning the pole , that is all you need for strengthening your legs.
Don't worry about the other Pole exercises , just do the Chair Gwun , it is at 00:54 in this clip.
It is going to hurt , and your heart rate will sky rocket , but it is an excellent conditioner for the legs.


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## DennisBreene (Apr 5, 2013)

If this has persisted for several weeks it would be a good idea to see a physician. Most likely, it is minor strain and will respond to the various remedies already described, but even 25 yr. olds can have underlying conditions or arthritis that may require special attention. It would be better to find that out now, before you severely aggravate the situation. Hopefully, you will be fine and a little rest, ice, heat etc. will allow you to heal and proceed successfully. Best of luck.


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## Argus (Apr 5, 2013)

> Mook

I'm not doing any fast kicks in the air (don't really see a point in doing that anyway), but we do step with most if not all of our weight on the back leg, as you describe. I guess my entire body weight is resting on that back knee, in that case.

> Yak Sao, Dennis Breene

That's all sound advice. I will try to raise my stance a bit for now, and have my Sifu look closely at what I've been doing. Maybe I've just strained it, and haven't been giving it time to heal.


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## geezer (Apr 5, 2013)

Argus said:


> > Mook
> 
> I'm not doing any fast kicks in the air (don't really see a point in doing that anyway), but we do step with most if not all of our weight on the back leg, as you describe. I guess my entire body weight is resting on that back knee, in that case.
> 
> ...



Rest it till the pain subsides, then proceed with caution, "listening to your body". If the pain persists or returns after subsiding, I'd definitely get some expert medical advice. 

 ...In fact, _that's what I am doing!_ I jacked up my left knee toward the end of February. After a couple of weeks, it seemed to be getting better and I got back to regular training. Then I aggravated it doing some kicking drills that normally wouldn't have bothered me and the pain, although usually mild, is persistant. So I've made an appointment to see orthopedic specialist next week. Best to know what's really going on.


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## J W (Apr 5, 2013)

With all of the turning and shifting in Chum Kiu, it's very possible that you could've hurt your knee while playing that form. Especially when you first started and were still trying to figure out how to do it properly. My knee actually started bothering me a month or so ago, and I'm pretty sure it was due to an awkward Chum Kiu turn. I took it easy for a couple weeks and it feels fine now. 

As has already been said; Have your sifu check your form, rest your knee for a bit, and if it persists, go to the doc.


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## Domino (May 3, 2013)

You didn't mention the abducting goat stance which I think is important for taking weight off the knees whilst in your stance, it is important but can vary.
Lightly turn and check your stance is the correct distance to how you opened your stance and also I never extend my knee past the tip of my toes.
Sometimes get a little trouble through over use (bike, running) and have been training for just over 3 years.


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## martial sparrer (May 3, 2013)

let knee fully recover first of all.....then do the opposite.....stretch ALOT.....and do EASY leg exercises......or you will have a huge problem when your 40 years old.....for awhile now do not do hard leg workouts two days in a row....its about the concept of over-use


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## Xue Sheng (May 3, 2013)

Speaking as one who is and has been dealing with knee injuries&#8230;
There is this person know as an Orthopedist aka Orthopedic Doctor aka Orthopod.... Make an appointment and go see one


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## Argus (May 3, 2013)

Well, I saw a doctor about two weeks ago, and he confirmed that I hadn't caused any permanent damage.

It seems to just be over use. I've been staying off them for a while now, and they're doing much better.


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## Domino (May 10, 2013)

Yay nice ! :ultracool


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