# At a crossroad



## sschoenherr (Jul 16, 2012)

I have been a lurker here for a long time but I'm now at a crossroad in my Tang Soo Do path that I'm hoping some of you can chime in on.  I have been training in Tang Soo Do and achieve the rank of 5th Gup thus far.  I have taken some time off due to life and I am now looking to get back into it, but...  The school I was going too was about 3 miles away.  It have now moved (this is the third time in 2 years he's moved or opened and then closed a second school).  This school was not affiliated with any Federation.  Since the school moved it is now about equally as far away as a a number of other TSD schools in this area, some with Federation affiliations, some without.  While I feel the instruction I was getting at my school was good, I'm concerned with all the moves of schools and if Federation affiliation really means anything.

So, the crossroads I am at is do I go back to training at my old school in it's new location, or do I look to other schools in the area?  Does Federation/Association affiliation mean anything specific.  If I carry through my training and achieve Dan status, does earning it under a non-association/federation school make it less valuable?  Any comments, pros and/or cons are greatly appreciated as I weigh my options.


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## Cyriacus (Jul 16, 2012)

Go look at the other schools.

Youll either find out Youve been missing out on something, or find out You havent been missing out on anything. It literally cannot end poorly for You.
Not going to look on the other hand, means that if You are missing out on something, Youll never even know it.


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 16, 2012)

Cyriacus is correct on looking at other schools.  It will be your gain or loss depending on how you choose.

As to affilication, my personal opinion is that the most important thing is the level of teaching/learning.  I am glad I have certificates from the Korean Hapkido Association (from the 80s) saying I am a 2nd dan.  My GM trained me to 3rd dan.  We never got around to testing me due to geographical separation.  I don't feel any less trained or knowledgable, but of course I would never claim that title.  I don't know if anything about that makes your decision easier.


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## dancingalone (Jul 16, 2012)

sschoenherr said:


> Does Federation/Association affiliation mean anything specific.  If I carry through my training and achieve Dan status, does earning it under a non-association/federation school make it less valuable?  Any comments, pros and/or cons are greatly appreciated as I weigh my options.



Federations provide rank certification, common training curricula, and seminar/tournament opportunities.  It's really up to you to decide if any of those are relevant to your own situation.

Just speaking off the cuff, I don't know that any of points above are irreplaceable to me.  Rank certification just isn't that big a deal because you can probably walk into any TSD dojang in the US with prior experience and the school operator will probably work with you to place at the correct level regardless of where your paper came from.  Your personal skill, particularly at the geup level, is far more important than certificates.  A common training curriculum might be good if you move so you can progress in the same material, but it seems like a soft reason to select a particular school to me.  I'd rather train with the best teacher I can find at the school with the culture/offerings that fits me best.  If that means a school with lots of close by tournaments and a strong network of affiliated sister dojang for seminar opportunties, then picking the RIGHT association for my area might be important.

But if you're asking whether a federation certificate is better than an independent one, then no I don't think it is necessarily so.  If you like the training you receive from your current sabum, stick with him.  Otherwise look for a better fit with a teacher and school realizing their federation affiliation will only be a small part of the picture.


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## Instructor (Jul 16, 2012)

It must be nice to have so many schools nearby to choose from!


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## Kaygee (Jul 16, 2012)

I have many, many (to many) Tang Soo Do schools in my area....most of them are not very good, in my opinion. You may find another one and find it is better than your current one, or, you may find out that the one that you are currently attenting is the better fit for you!

As many have already said in this thread, it is up to you. Most of the schools will honor your rank anyway (you're only 5th gup, just show them that you can do all of the forms up to pyung ahn sa dan) so it is just a personal preference and/or a geographical preference. You may like being in a federation better because tournaments and working with other students from schools affiliated from your federation can be quite fun!


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## Omar B (Jul 16, 2012)

PA on a whole seems big on TSD.  It's weird how the style took hold in PA (ost notably Pittsburg and Philly), NJ, and CT, but never made much of a splash in NY.  I even knew guys who crossed the river into NJ to train.


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## kitkatninja (Jul 17, 2012)

sschoenherr said:


> ...It have now moved (this is the third time in 2 years he's moved or opened and then closed a second school).  This school was not affiliated with any Federation.  Since the school moved it is now about equally as far away as a a number of other TSD schools in this area, some with Federation affiliations, some without.  While I feel the instruction I was getting at my school was good, I'm concerned with all the moves of schools...



To be honest, I wouldn't be concerned about the school moves.  Alot of things can cause a move, rent (more expensive rent means higher fees), place not suitable/does meet requirements, majority of student are coming from another area, etc...



sschoenherr said:


> ...and if Federation affiliation really means anything.
> 
> So, the crossroads I am at is do I go back to training at my old school in it's new location, or do I look to other schools in the area?  Does Federation/Association affiliation mean anything specific.  If I carry through my training and achieve Dan status, does earning it under a non-association/federation school make it less valuable?  Any comments, pros and/or cons are greatly appreciated as I weigh my options.



I'm not 100% about TSD, however in my "youth" (not that I'm that old now  ) when I did Shotokan, the association that I train in was (and sill is) members of the WKF, EKF, etc and I actually joined other Associations, Organisations, Councils, etc... To ensure that my Rank was recognised where-ever I went for the purposes of training, competition, etc...  

Fast forward about a decade, I've started TSD and the only group that my club belongs to is the WDSDU.  From a personal point of view, I don't see any difference - training and gradings are, imo, high quality (when compared to a few associations that I've trained and graded in), etc...

However in the grand scheme of things, I guess it really depends on what you're looking for, grade ratification (without the hassle of goes thru the manual process when moving from club to club or association to association), access to certain competitions, a more common training curriculum, etc... 

Quality of training is irrespective of whether or not it's a lone club or a multi-national association...  But like it was suggested, try the other clubs to see on whether or not you like them


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## sschoenherr (Jul 18, 2012)

Yes, I am in an area that offers about 6 different schools within about a 30-40 minute drive. I'm in a somewhat rural area so in a way I guess I am lucky. 

I appreciate the insight from everyone, it helps solidify the decision to look at many schools this time. I started my martial arts training late in life as my kids got into it and we really chose based on convenience and the recommendation of a few friends. Now I guess I really need to look around and see which schools are and are not good ones. That it the magic question without having years of experience to go back on I guess I will just need to jump on and do it.


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## Montecarlodrag (Jul 18, 2012)

sschoenherr said:


> So, the crossroads I am at is do I go back to training at my old school in it's new location, or do I look to other schools in the area? Does Federation/Association affiliation mean anything specific. If I carry through my training and achieve Dan status, does earning it under a non-association/federation school make it less valuable? Any comments, pros and/or cons are greatly appreciated as I weigh my options.


For your current rank it doesn't matter much. Go visit the other dojangs and see if the instruction you receive in your current dojang is of good quality. If it is, you can continue training there a few years more.

However, once you get to black belt level, you need to find a good instructor who is affiliated with a Federation. Good training is the most important thing in your martial arts career but a certification under a Federation is also important.

I have 20 years of Tang Soo Do training, I should be 5th Dan but I'm only 3rd because I spent several years training outside a Federation. I had the knowledge but not the certificate and that set me back.


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## OldKarateGuy (Aug 2, 2012)

I'm late to the thread, but I think studio certification by a reputable - and usually large - organization is very important. Especially as a beginner, one may not recognize good training, or one may confuse a good personality with a good karateka. Reputable organizations maintain standards. Over the years, I moved several times, and had to search around for a school when my old style didn't have a school nearby. I can't tell you how many times I have heard instructors says something like "I have taken the best of shotokan, the best of aikido, the best of (insert a style here)...", which is of course, BS. Such an instructor is subtituting his/her experience for what in large organizations is lifetimes of effort by master level students. Another tip-off: your first 15 minutes (or more) of class is calisthenics. That usually means a weak instructor substituting a workout for martial arts. But inexperienced students may walk out thinking it was just great. Do aerobics on your time. You're paying for martial arts, not push-ups. 
Of course, there are independent instructors who are quite good, and association instructors who...well, they may suck. However, when you don't know or can't tell the difference, go with a school from a reputable and well-known association. You will be able to tell the quality of your instructor the first time you go to a big tournment or training camp, and see students from other schools in the same style. 
By the way, generally, someone who comes to a school with some experience, and a certificate from Wally's World O' Martial Arts will not get anywhere near the same respect as paper from, say, the JKA. YMMV, but that's my real life experience.


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