# What is Kali/Escrima? More importantly how is the hand to hand



## stonewall1450 (Apr 9, 2008)

I know. I know. Three threads in one day, but I have many questions forgive me lol. I was just curious how useful the hand to hand combat is in Kali/Eskrima is, if any hand to hand. I have heard that in the Bourne movies that his martial arts style is based in Kali(the rapid hand blocks and such). I am assuming that it is not all stick fighting. I understand that it is alot about what the instructor focuses on, but how much of it is probably useless in the street(like certain aspects of most arts from what I have heard. Like the body punch in karate where both arms are down that any boxer would use to his advantage to get a few jabs[of course that should be performed fast im sure]).  I guess im looking for an answer from a user of kali/eskrima who knows how useful it can be if propperly trained and applied.

P.S. why do the little guys always try to pick fights with the big guy? It gets old really really quick lol(yes im the big guy and always got harrased in high school by guys tryin to "prove" themselves)


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## MJS (Apr 10, 2008)

stonewall1450 said:


> I know. I know. Three threads in one day, but I have many questions forgive me lol. I was just curious how useful the hand to hand combat is in Kali/Eskrima is, if any hand to hand. I have heard that in the Bourne movies that his martial arts style is based in Kali(the rapid hand blocks and such). I am assuming that it is not all stick fighting. I understand that it is alot about what the instructor focuses on, but how much of it is probably useless in the street(like certain aspects of most arts from what I have heard. Like the body punch in karate where both arms are down that any boxer would use to his advantage to get a few jabs[of course that should be performed fast im sure]). I guess im looking for an answer from a user of kali/eskrima who knows how useful it can be if propperly trained and applied.


 
The FMAs such as Kali, Arnis, etc. have some excellent empty hand work.  Those arts not only cover weapons such as the blade and stick, but include a number of locks, limb destructions, and takedowns.  Keep in mind, what you see in the movies, while they try to keep true to form, is hyped up for the movie.  In other words, dont assume what you see in the Bourne movies is what you will see in a Kali school.  

Any art can be effective, but part of it falls on the student and how they train.  My suggestion would be to find a school and try out a class.  I've been training in Arnis for about 10 yrs and I love it!  There is so much in the art and it blends very well with just about any other art out there.


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## stonewall1450 (Apr 10, 2008)

I am aware that those movies were stretched out to make the fighting more intense. I was reffering more to the style of countering that bourne used, losts of re-direction of hits and evades and slips(im a boxer so im stickin with terms I do know lol)


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## MJS (Apr 10, 2008)

One of the footwork patterns that we use is based on the X pattern.  As for blocking, there is a mixture of hard and soft style blocking.


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## Hawke (Apr 10, 2008)

Greetings Stonewall,

We have a sister site at

http://www.fmatalk.com/

The people there are way more knowledgeable than me.

With your boxing experience you are going to love FMA.  There's quite a diverse system within the FMA.

Kali
Escrima
Arnis 
Pakamut

Try google or Youtube to see some of the different flavors.  If possible go visit a local training hall (garage, park, studio) to actually feel the art.


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## Hawke (Apr 10, 2008)

In my limited understanding the FMA were designed to learn quickly and effectively to repel invaders.

FMA is a combat art.  You can choose to be the defender or the aggressor.  

You learn limb destruction.

You learn lethal techniques.

Is FMA useful in the street? IMO I believe it is very effective.  But the instructor is a major key factor.

If FMA appeals to you, may I also suggest you look into Silat?  They blend very well.


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## Big Don (Apr 11, 2008)

The really really short answer: 
Beating people with sticks, poking them with knives


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## Blindside (Apr 11, 2008)

stonewall1450 said:


> I know. I know. Three threads in one day, but I have many questions forgive me lol. I was just curious how useful the hand to hand combat is in Kali/Eskrima is, if any hand to hand. I have heard that in the Bourne movies that his martial arts style is based in Kali(the rapid hand blocks and such). I am assuming that it is not all stick fighting. I understand that it is alot about what the instructor focuses on, but how much of it is probably useless in the street.


 
The way many FMA were passed on in the US was as adjunct weapon arts taught to folks who already had some other sort of unarmed background, and the translation between the armed and the unarmed was not as strong as it could be, and some weapon based FMA simply don't have a strong unarmed component.  

Personally, I have found very very little fluff in my instruction, very little that I would find "useless."  The default assumption in the art that I am studying is that the other guy is armed with a deadly weapon, this absolutely requires that you develop your skills of reading an opponent and understanding ranging down to a fraction of an inch.  Skills that comes in useful versus an unarmed assailant as well. 

Lamont


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## stonewall1450 (Apr 11, 2008)

Awesome guys. Im going out tommorow to look for a place to do escrima/kali/arnis(which will probably be closed with my luck lol) and a tuxedo lol. James Bond maybe? Na gotta an dance that my GF wishes my to attend that requires a Tux(ugh us southern people and our formal stuff lol).


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## MJS (Apr 12, 2008)

Glad we could help.   What area are you in?  Perhaps you could assist in helping you to find a place.


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## stonewall1450 (Apr 12, 2008)

Tallahassee Florida, well outside about 30minutes away. I actually found a place that is not to far away and is primarily Akido. It has an Arnis class that it teaches(which from my understanding is quite similar) and I have been interested in Akido for a while.


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## arnisador (Apr 12, 2008)

Sounds like a good find for you then!


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## Hawke (Apr 18, 2008)

Greetings Stonewall,

Here's a clip I found on YouTube for empty hand Kali.

Empty Hand Kali 1





Some of the moves (and names) appear a lot like Silat.


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## Jack Meower (Apr 20, 2008)

I really enjoyed that video.  Thank you.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 20, 2008)

stonewall1450 said:


> P.S. why do the little guys always try to pick fights with the big guy? It gets old really really quick lol(yes im the big guy and always got harrased in high school by guys tryin to "prove" themselves)



Stonewall1450,

There are a few theories on what you describe here. (* Please read all of them and think on them and see if any of them help you look at the situation to help resolve the problem(s). *)

1) The big guy is really a bully. He hits the little guys, he pushes them, he calls them shorty and other "small" names. This causes the smaller or normal sized person to try to show the Big person that they will not take it any more and create a situation in which case the Big Guy may not have thought he was doing anything wrong. 

2) SMS - aka Small Man Syndrome. This is not a real medical term but something I heard in the 70's and I am sure it was describe even before that. This is where the smaller guy is out trying to prove to the world that he means something and that they should listen to him. When if just did something, and let his actions speak for himself her might get more attention and notice. But in many cases sports and contests of strength go to those that are bigger. 

3) The big guy has been big for his age his whole life. He has been told not to hurt people with his strength. That he does not know his own strength. He should be careful or he will break things. This leads to the large guy acting like prey which may bring out predator instincts in others. 

4) Infinite more depending upon the people involved. 

In case one, the big guy needs to look at his actions and see what he is doing and try to change them to be a better member of society. In case two, the big guy needs to understand the issue of the smaller man and give him a chance to complete his statements and acknowledge his points. This is good advice for all people, but in this case it may take some special handling to accomplish. In case three, the big guy needs to look at his actions and habits and see if there are things that could be changed, to avoid these conflicts. i.e. Stopping a situation before it gets out of hand. it might require one or two instances of physical display of defense to show that you are not the easy mark. (* Note: this is not an excuse to go pick a fight or to hurt someone. Many times good posturing can handle this. *) In case four, you may want to talk to some people who are close to you who might give you some insight.


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## geezer (May 1, 2008)

Rich Parsons said:


> Stonewall1450,
> 
> There are a few theories on what you describe here. (* Please read all of them and think on them and see if any of them help you look at the situation to help resolve the problem(s). *)
> 
> ...



Chief amont these other possibilities is that the small guy is a _complete idiot_. I was always one of the smallest for my age in school and learned pretty quickly that it was a lot smarter to be friends with big guys than to provoke them!

Now, my five-foot three (ha ha) "big-brother" developed a case of #2 for a while. When I finally had a growth spurt and (shot up from teeny to the short-side of average) he made a point or letting me know that he was still in charge. Since he was a state champion wrestler _and_ five years my elder, you can guess how that turned out for me. So the short of it is I guess you large guys will just have to suffer with "the big man's burden." Must be rough.


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## Rich Parsons (May 3, 2008)

geezer said:


> Chief amont these other possibilities is that the small guy is a _complete idiot_. I was always one of the smallest for my age in school and learned pretty quickly that it was a lot smarter to be friends with big guys than to provoke them!
> 
> Now, my five-foot three (ha ha) "big-brother" developed a case of #2 for a while. When I finally had a growth spurt and (shot up from teeny to the short-side of average) he made a point or letting me know that he was still in charge. Since he was a state champion wrestler _and_ five years my elder, you can guess how that turned out for me. So the short of it is I guess you large guys will just have to suffer with "the big man's burden." Must be rough.



Being a big person is a burden.

I can not get comfortable in most cars today. 

Lap tops are designed for smaller hands and closer spaced. 

Clothes cost more for tall or the second "X".

And every time you run into one of those idiots you mention, then you have to explain you did not start it, and everyone looks at you like you are the idiot for stopping him from hurting you. 

Also the police do not like your size. I have been told by police and ADAs and Lawyers and a judge or two that for me to claim in fear of my life is difficult. Good thing for me that they believed me as there were four or five of the bad guys or they had weapons and I was empty handed. 

Those who are small want to be large(er).
Those who are large want to be small(er).
People who are short say they have problems with getting to the top shelf. 
People who are large have problems seeing the bottom shelf. 

In my full size truck and every other vehicle I drive I can loose a full size Suburban behind the review mirror. Most people do not understand this as they sit low enough in the vehicle that it is not an issue.  On the other being short and having to sit so close to the steering wheel to touch the pedals is not good either. 

We all want something we are not. Or want the world to fit "our" personal needs.


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