# Questions on starting a class



## Mark Lynn (Apr 22, 2003)

Due to some changes at work I'm considering starting a class based on the Presas Arnis systems of Modern Arnis and Kombatan Arnis.  My question isn't on how to teach or what to teach etc. etc. rather it is on where to teach and how to get the space.

So for the instructors out here who teach in a rec. center or who teach by sub leasing space from a stand alone martial art school or what ever could you share some information on your approach to getting the space to teach.

I taught several years ago for a YMCA and had a bad experience with upper management changing on me every couple of months, and then switching rooms on me and such.  Basically not supporting the classes.  I also taught at a school where I was brought in to teach weapons defense once a month but again there wasn't the consistancy for the students to really learn since I was there for two hours month.

So I'm looking into a parks and rec type of program, and another instructor has given me a lead  on a possible sub lease. Any response on the following would be appreciated.

1) How do you promote/present your class to the shcool owner/head of the rec center?  
2) Do you have any problems with teaching the weapons aspect of Modern Arnis?
3) Have you had any problems with your class in regards to the leasor thinking your competing with his main art?

In the past when I have talked to someone in a Parks and Rec dept. they haven't a clue about the FMA all they know is TKD and karate.  I think the weapons aspect scares them off so this is why I'm asking this on this board.  

Thanks for any help.


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## arnisandyz (Apr 22, 2003)

I first started teaching Arnis out of a TKD school.  I was good friends with the owner and tought a couple TKD only classes for him in exchange for the space.  Aldon and I then rented space at a local Martial Arts store who was and still is very supportive of us.  We are now out of a local church who lets us use there rec center.  One of my students is close friends with the pastor. Also were in sunny Florida, so we also train out at the local park. So I guess you can say we were very lucky in finding places to train!

As far as competing with the main art (TKD in my case).  Wasn't really a problem.  The people taking TKD wanted to take TKD, the ones interested took it as an add-on to there TKD.  The smarter school owners will see it as an assett in the ability to add more services and choices to there students.

Andy


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## Cruentus (Apr 22, 2003)

Brief answers:

1. To market yourself to other schools, 1st find a school that you like, and that you can compliment. Go in and watch a class, and just say that you are there to check them out. Don't be intrusive. Then, when the instructor is done addressing all his students after the class, and you can get him/her in a one-on-one conversation, then tell the instructor what you do, and that you are interested in possibly working with him. Set up a meeting to talk with him, or perhaps discuss the possibilities right then. Also remember that the more research you do the better. Get a copy of his class schedule so you'll know when he could possibly fit you in, learn what he charges his students, and have an idea how you will fit in your costs with his. Don't make the mistake of not charging anything, or not having an idea about money issues before you talk to the instructor. I know that it is not all about money, but you will be undervalued if you don't charge something.
The most important thing, however, is SHOW YOUR VALUE. If you cannot show the instructor how your teaching at his school will benifit him and his students, then guess what: you won't be teaching at his school!

2. Statistically speaking, most assaults involve a weapon of some kind. So I actually have qualms about NOT including weapons in training. To not train weapons, in my opinion, is to negate a key aspect of self-defense. This idea can help you market yourself as the weapons instructor in a school that primarly trains empty hand. Just make sure the school is insured, you use the proper waivers for students to sign, and you make it a point to verbally express to EVERY STUDENT how DANGEROUS weapons are, especially bladed weapons. You must talk about things like deadly force, etc. Also, keep it age appropriate; what you teach children about weapons is not the same thing that you would teach adults.

3. If you go in with the attitude that you are there to help them, and to complement what they are doing, you will be successful. Some will like Modern Arnis so much that they will make it their primary art, and some will only keep it as a secondary system. But if you stress that you are not there to compete or take over, but that you are there to help, you are more likely to be welcomed. Remember, Professor Remy Presas built a large chunk of his seminar business on the "art within your art" concept to include many different walks and ways. His inclusiveness is what allowed him to be so successful, and adopting this attitude will be a great thing for you.

Now go out there and market yourself, and spread the art! I'm sure you'll do great! :asian:


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## moromoro (Apr 23, 2003)

hello boarman

i think the first question should be what rank are you in the arts you will be teaching?


thanks

terry


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## pesilat (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *hello boarman
> 
> i think the first question should be what rank are you in the arts you will be teaching?
> ...



Why? I assume that since he's looking to start teaching, then he's been given permission or certification to do so by his instructor. What rank he is, at that point, becomes completely moot.

Mike


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## moromoro (Apr 23, 2003)

let him answer please


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## Mark Lynn (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *let him answer please *



Actually  I am authorized to teach the class, I have lakan ranks in both Modern Arnis and Kombatan Arnis signed by both GM Remy and GM Ernesto.  However I chose not to try and get into a rank disscussion and that is why I left that out in my original post since that really wasn't the direction I was hoping the thread would go.

I appreciate the responses about and the input.


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## Dan Anderson (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by The Boar Man _
> *1) How do you promote/present your class to the shcool owner/head of the rec center?
> 2) Do you have any problems with teaching the weapons aspect of Modern Arnis?
> 3) Have you had any problems with your class in regards to the leasor thinking your competing with his main art?
> ...



Boar Man,
1. Actually get in communication with him and sell him/her on the need for such a class.  Remy Presas was great at hands on teaching to the prospective seminar host and getting across how the art would fit his/her needs.

2.  No.  Modern Arnis deals mainly with the weapon so that is no problem.

3.  The trick here would be again gettign the person to agree that this teaching would benefit his/her art and his/her school.  If your class becomes larger than his/hers, then you might have a problem but that could be handled with scheduling.

I hope this helps.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Mark Lynn (Apr 24, 2003)

Dan

Thanks for the reply.

Everyone.

The reason I asked about the teaching of the weapons aspect of the art, is that I have heard (from another karate instructor who had talked to the local parks and rec. dept) that the parks and rec. dept didn't want anything to violent (having to do with fighting) therefore they wanted a TKD or sport karate program.  Not what he taught or more really what I teach, so I was wondering if anyone else had come across this type of obstical in setting up thier programs and what they might have done to overcome this problem.

Also in the class (a weapons class based on Arnis) I taught before, I was trying to help get an arnis program started at a school who brought me in at first to teach a special black belt class.  However I think in time though I might have been in competion with the school programs (a Korean system, and another self defense system thats popular now) since I knew more about weapons defense than the shcool's instructors in those systems.

The owner of the school was paying me to come and teach, I would have received no benefit other than passing on the art and getting people involved in the FMA, however after a year and a half it really wasn't working out due to lack of participation/promotion.  Last year, I and the owner hosted GM Ernesto and another karate instructor (under GM Remy) came by and told me (or one of the other karate instructors there, I forget who) that he couldn't allow a program like GM Ernesto's in since it would compete with his karate program.  That made me think about the situation I was in at the school and if I was in a sense competing with the owners system.  So I'm trying to avoid that kind of a situation as well.

And let me state right here and now that I am thankful for the opportunity I had to teach there and a good friend of mine and my assistant in the class is still teaching there taking over the class I started.  But he is still running into some of the same problems that I had.  I 'm not knocking the school or the owner who I consider a friend.

These reasons are why I'm trying and start up a class in a parks and rec. dept.  with sub leasing time as a last resort.  However I'll take what I can get.

Thanks for the responses, if anyone has had similar experiences and would like to share how they overcame them I would be grateful for any input.


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## Black Grass (Apr 24, 2003)

Boar Man,

Something that Modern Arnis has as an advantage as an FMA is that it is actually part of the school ciriculm in the Philippines grade school through to university. There is even a book available (from the philippines can't remember the title) that gives a week by week lesson plan on teaching children. I think you can use this as a big selling point with the Parks and Rec.

However, by going to the Park and Recs route you are limited in the type of sparring you can do. If you do plan on sparring ( real sparring not sparring drills) you could sell it as Filipino Kendo ( thats what the Japanese call it anyway).


Black Grass


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## Mark Lynn (Apr 24, 2003)

Thanks for the input Black Grass

I hadn't thought about trying to promote it (to the rec staff) from that angle although I hadn't planned on really teaching kids.  When I taught at the karate school the majority of the class where kids and I really want to stay with a more adult program.  

However do any of the instructors out there teach Modern Arnis for kids in a school or rec program?  That would be interesting to hear how they structure their program.

As for the sparring I had planned on really holding that on the outside of class in a park or something.  Since that would probably end the class with the rec. dept right there.  Besides it would take a while till I believe the students would be ready to spar anyway.  And I figured I'd cross that bridge when it would come to that.

Thanks again for your help


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## progressivetactics (Apr 24, 2003)

in regards to dealing with the parks and rec director, I think you should be very up front with them about your background, your direction of class and what value you can add to the community.  If you are marketing to the adults, then it isn't as much of a draw, but if you can seperate a class per week to youth, and explain how the art has levels of force and how you teach control and restrains, it is much more appealing to the powers that be.

I scheduled a meeting with the parks and rec director, and showed up in dress clothes with a breif case, portfolio, and business cards in hand. I also had a photo copies of rank certificates and creditential lists with endorsments.  Prove to them that you are professional, and it is not people hitting each other with sticks.  You are a professional with a plan.  They typically have no idea about any program, only the dollars you can generate.  That is another good point.  If you trust in your ability, you can negotiate your pricing.  I went to him and asked how many students he thought I should have and at what price most other similar programs would charge, and what was his take. I then raised his share by about $25. and made an agreement that I would pay him monthly that set amount.  That way, I had a set 'monthly rent'. I charged what I wanted, and as the class grew, I would benefit, not him.  He gets a guaranteed amount that is higher then what he would get from a similar program.

Even though I rent space from him, I still would get the perks of the rec center...Free cable ads, free quarterly school  and residential newsletters, first crack at sponsering city teams (by the way.......make sure you do that!!!), etc.  

Good luck.


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## Mark Lynn (Apr 25, 2003)

Progressive Tactics

Thanks for the input.

Do you teach kids Arnis/FMA?  I like your point and Balck Grass's point about teaching the kids - forgot to do the qoute thing, I'm still getting use to this message board-.  Anyway I went today and talked to some people (underlings) and got some names and business cards of the directors I need to talk to for several cities.

I had thought about having some stuff printed up and showing the directors but I didn't know if that would be going overboard.  However I like your input on being "professional" and trying to set myself and the system apart from what people would think a karate guy would be like.


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## progressivetactics (Apr 25, 2003)

I have mostly adults take the stick classes.  2 youths about 12 & 14 years are the youngest that have taken it.  I have it at 8pm so many of the younger ones are gone for the night.

bb


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## Mark Lynn (May 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by progressivetactics _
> *I have mostly adults take the stick classes.  2 youths about 12 & 14 years are the youngest that have taken it.  I have it at 8pm so many of the younger ones are gone for the night.
> 
> bb *



Sorry I didn't get back to this.

Thanks for the reply.

How long are your classes?  Have the youths stuck with it?  and do you teach any blade work or things like that when they are in class.

I guess that would be censoring in a sense your curriculmn.  Sorry wrong choice of words, rather do you modify your teaching when they are in class?

Thanks


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## KenpoDragon (May 5, 2003)

In regards to your post,I currently am teaching a program in which I teach a combination of Kenpo,Kali,and Jujutsu,so I know where your coming from.I have actually done both sub-leasing from other schools as well as done the whole rec. center thing.The only problems I had with sub-leasing was the fact of conflicting styles,and time.I was teaching Kali,at the time,and was a student in Kenpo.I was teaching Kali out of the Kenpo school,I had worked out a deal with my instructor.You may be able to do something similar,I would only charge his students half of what I charged my regular students.As well as give him a percentage of what I took in.The problem though is so many styles conflict with other styles,Kali,Arnis,and Escrima,are all based on flowing as opposed to stiff movements.So my students would see my movements and wonder why Kenpo seemed to be not as fluid in the motions.I had to repeatedly tell the that Kenpo is a system of consistent flow,but not specifically at a beginners stage.Also in Kali we incorporate grappling,which Kenpo does not really emphasize on.So my students would watch all those UFC fights and think Kenpo was insufficient.As I said earlier the timing of the classes is important,I do not suggest having them anywhere near each other, that can cause mixed feelings between you and the other instructor as well as your students.As far as the whole rec. center thing goes,it is not a bad idea,but make sure they are willing to give you a secured area and time slot for you to work with.I suggest looking in to parks and recreations,as well as the boys and girls clubs,if you have those in your area,and why not give the Y.M.C.A another shot.As far as talking to the owner of the property it might help you not to emphasize on the whole weapons system thing,instead I would stick to the "self defense" system of martial arts.When you say that you teach weapons fighting,people have a tendency to take it the wrong  way.You might also want to look in to Veterans centers,or sometimes Churchs have martial arts programs/youth programs.Well hope that helps,best of luck to you.

                                                                 Sincerely,
                                                                            Mr.Tanaka:asian:


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## progressivetactics (May 5, 2003)

I always limit my explanations and details of techniques to the appropriate age level.  I don't work the knife aspect into the arnis yet, as I have a very beginner level program, and want them more comfortable moving with a weapon, and getting postures and attributes and feelings more then working the weapon.  I will slowly introduce the blade as I feel more comfortable with their collective level.  Of course, the more senior students, I will pull off to the side and explain, or show a bit more 'reality based application' then the group.

The 12 & 14 can understand and respect the full course program and its functionality. I don't censor much to them.  They are pretty mature.

hope that helps.


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## Mark Lynn (May 6, 2003)

Mr. Tanaka

Thank you for your reply.

I talked to Parks and Rec. program cordinator for the city and it looks like the class I proposed will be a go.  Pending approval by the higher ups. 

I did stress the more self defense aspect of the program and it's difference from the TKD program they are currently running.

I stated my preference for the one room which is semi secluded and we aggreed on the length of class and the fequency of the class.  So hopefully it will get cleared and I can start in June.

With respect


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## Mark Lynn (May 6, 2003)

Progressive Tactics

Thanks for your input.  In a previous post you wrote about how to approach the interview as a "professional" I took your suggestion and applied it to not only my wife but also to the interview as well.

My wife has always taken my obsession with the MA and my desire to teach (train as well) as just a phase or hobby (I thought after 20+ years she'd have grown out of it).  So she thought I was kind of over doing it when I wrote up a proposal, resume, flyers, and such and put it all together for the interview.  We had a long talk about it and I explained about your suggestion and how I was being professional about my proposal.

When I went for the interview I showed the man my material and he thought it was great, and that I did a good job of presenting my material.  And he thinks there should be no probelm with getting the class approved.

Thank you once again
Mark


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## Mark Lynn (May 6, 2003)

Everyone

Thank you for or input on this thread.  If anyone has any other input as to the trails you experienced in starting a class or what I would appreciate hearing about them.

Mark


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