# Building speed in techniques



## brianhunter (Aug 5, 2002)

What are some tricks, tips, ways That you guys have found to build speed in techniques and forms? How do you practice them to improve speed without losing the quality?? Is it something you let develop naturally or is there a set way some of you work on it? Me and Jeff where video taping techniques and forms last night and I can tell you that is pretty humbling?? LOL


----------



## Blindside (Aug 5, 2002)

This method is really revolutionary, I start by being slow and technical, then speed up the execution of the technique/form.  :shrug: 

OK, its not a shortcut but it works.  

I really like working out in front of the mirror, and its not just to check out how good I look in a gi.   The mirror lets me check targeting and motion.  

Lamont


----------



## tarabos (Aug 5, 2002)

repetition, repetition, repetition...

yes...you should start doing the techs slowly and work up to a faster speed. you can also do exercises to work on you fast twitch muscles, you can slap some wrist and ankle weights on when you do the techniques as well.

however, keep in mind that someone who isn't necessarily fast may seem like he or she is fast just because they use the correct timing, body mechanics and form when they move. speed is great, but working on being well-balanced is more important i think.

just keep stretching, (the whole body) and working the movements until they become etched in your brain...speed will come, and with that will come your power. bla bla bla...i could go on in more detail...but i ain't got the time right now.


----------



## Wertle (Aug 5, 2002)

I don't know if there's really much of a shortcut either.  Speed comes with knowing the technique.  It was always emphasized to me to practice a new technique slowly, in order to learn exactly what I was doing.  Jumping right in and trying to do the technique faster just made me perform the technique in a sloppy and ineffective manner.  

I don't think speed is as important to concentrate on as focus, and executing the technique properly.  And then, after practicing, and practicing...and more practicing, effective speed starts to develop.  That's how it is in my experience, at least.


----------



## Kenpo Yahoo (Aug 5, 2002)

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you already know the technique that your working on.  This being the case, you probably have a pretty good understanding of the movements.  I suggest working controlled bursts.  Find a couple of techniques that use ballistic striking and work those controlled bursts into the techniques.  Alternating maces would be a good one to work.
you would block the incoming push with the right, then the left, and then shoot a right back knuckle.  Use the timing phrase "bud-da---wack."  The right hand hits with "bud" the left hits with "da" and the backknuckle hits on the "wack".  Once your use to working the timing slow, compress it.  Still use the same timing, but in a smaller time frame.  By allowing your arms to roll (almost like your in a Conga line) you facilitate the speed of the next movement without loosing power.  

Now that's a real elementary overview of the technique without taking into account appropriate body mechanics, which are very important.  Without the appropriate mechanics you lose alot of power.  Hopefully the above example made some sense.  Mr. Mills has developed countless drills and patterns of timing that can be incorporated into the self defense techniques.  These patterns of motion combined with the appropriate body mechanics go along way to increase the speed and power of the kenpo practitioner.  I'm usually reluctant to mention any of the timing drills, but this one was up on another site, so I didn't see any harm.  

Respectfully


----------



## Klondike93 (Aug 5, 2002)

if you come up with something, I'm still searching.


:asian:


----------



## rmcrobertson (Aug 6, 2002)

I generally agree with what's been said, but I'd put it even more strongly: I don't believe in working to increase speed at all, in the sense this is usually meant. That is, I was taught form comes first, that it's out of form that real speed comes, and that it's more important to teach students to develop power. The first place I see the mistakes that follow from too much pushing to get faster? Lousy punches out of a horse stance in group classes.

I can't claim all that much experience, however. Still, what I've noted again and again and again is that beginning students and advanced stduents alike--myself included--sscrew up when they try to move real fast. In my experience, it encouraged beginners to move very stiffly, probably because they associate increased speed with increased hand/upper body speed. 

I try now to tell students that it's the speed of their feet and hips that counts, not their hand and arm speed. If I were to discuss drills, I'd think footwork first.

I also think that there's a tendency in kenpo towards, "useless speed," somewhat inherent in the nature of the system. 

Thanks. Interesting discussion.


----------



## matthewgreenland (Aug 6, 2002)

FYI - I read, and have, a really good book on speed - by Loren Christiansen (check spelling) I believe the book is titled - "Speed," or something along those lines.  Within that book, the author discusses -guess what, SPEED.  He addresses drills, speed of perception, movement speed, foot speed, hand speed  - and many different methods to build speed.

I do agree with my collegues that experience and familiarity will build speed, but there are many things you can do with the tech to help speed along:  extract the first two moves and drill them over and over and over and over - get the picture - each time begin moving faster - Isolating the a couple of moves w/i a tech helps one to focus on just those movements and the timing and breathing associated with them.   From there, you can build to three movements - then four, etc...

Have fun


----------



## brianhunter (Aug 6, 2002)

When I said "tricks" I did not mean shortcuts. Sorry if it came across that way. I meant tricks like when you use word association to "trick" yourself into learning for a test things like that. There arent any true shortcuts in training I think...just better ways of absorbing some things. Im a bigger guy and I have some speed issues and i know some of you guys are also bigger with great speed I want to develop that within myself too!!
I lift probably 3 times a week and I dont really think I have power issues but I want to build my techniques and movements to be more dynamic and econimic I guess. (I attached a pic of how Im built if you can take a laugh) LOL


----------



## jeffkyle (Aug 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *When I said "tricks" I did not mean shortcuts. Sorry if it came across that way. I meant tricks like when you use word association to "trick" yourself into learning for a test things like that. There arent any true shortcuts in training I think...just better ways of absorbing some things. Im a bigger guy and I have some speed issues and i know some of you guys are also bigger with great speed I want to develop that within myself too!!
> I lift probably 3 times a week and I dont really think I have power issues but I want to build my techniques and movements to be more dynamic and econimic I guess. (I attached a pic of how Im built if you can take a laugh) LOL *





Repetition and Relaxation!  Your timing will be the closest key to a "trick" for showing speed.  Lifting is good, but heavy lifting for strength and size does hurt your speed.  Remember what Dad told you about lifting....


----------



## Robbo (Aug 6, 2002)

This kind of falls between 'tricks' and 'training'. It is a trick in the sense that it is very simple to implement but it does take training consistantly to do it.

When you learn a new techniques usually the movements are large and exaggerated to permit exploration of proper movement, power, proper body alignment, paths of motion, etc. The longer you train with the techniques try reducing the large movements to become more and more efficient. Use the outer rim thoery, point of origin, appropiate force required. By shortening the distance your technique travels but still maintaining effectiveness you will be increasing the speed at which the technique is done.

Basically, use economy of motion.

Rob


----------



## Blindside (Aug 6, 2002)

> (I attached a pic of how Im built if you can take a laugh) LOL



Oooooh, a pretty boy!!! :rofl:


----------



## Doc (Aug 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *What are some tricks, tips, ways That you guys have found to build speed in techniques and forms? How do you practice them to improve speed without losing the quality?? Is it something you let develop naturally or is there a set way some of you work on it? Me and Jeff where video taping techniques and forms last night and I can tell you that is pretty humbling?? LOL *



All the so-called drills and such are not designed to create speed but to allow the body to accept speed as it is developed.

The "Secret" of speed is a simple one. "Speed is a byproduct of physical and mental familiarity." Therefore repetition is the key, however things must be done absolutely correct to be of maximum benefit. So the hard part is really knowing what's correct.

"Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect."

Ed Parker.


----------



## Kirk (Aug 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Doc _
> 
> *So the hard part is really knowing what's correct.*



Amen to that!


----------



## tonbo (Aug 7, 2002)

Start off slow, and work up slowly to the speed.  Work on the precision, and work the tool targets.  Move up progressively to the speed.

That seems to have worked pretty well for me.....over a long period of time, but it has seemed to have worked....

Peace--


----------



## WilliamTLear (Aug 9, 2002)

Mr. Parker said "flow first, power later." While I don't agree with everything that everyone says... I really take this statement to heart when teaching.


----------



## Doc (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *Mr. Parker said "flow first, power later." While I don't agree with everything that everyone says... I really take this statement to heart when teaching. *



Interesting because I have always heard him say that as well, but he always told me just the opposite.


----------



## WilliamTLear (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Doc _
> 
> *
> 
> Interesting because I have always heard him say that as well, but he always told me just the opposite. *



 Now that is interesting... I know the saying from The Zen Of Kenpo (page 23, under continuity). I know that he was notorious for saying different things to different people, do you think that is the case here? If so, why did he have you work on the development of power first?

Curious  ,
Billy


----------



## Doc (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Sir,

In my own lessons we did a lot of slow training, almost like "Taiji" with an emphasis on body mechanics and proper movement with breathing. When you move slow, every miscue is obvious and mistakes become glaring. I studied Chinese Arts before I met Ed Parker so this was "normal" to me. Ed Parker studied Taiji and other aspects of the Chinese Science and at one time even had a Taiji instructor teaching for him in the Pasadena School for awhile. (Can't remember his name, but I think it was James Lee). From there we would move to faster pace movements and ultimately explosive moement but only after the "wrinkles" were ironed out. Remember Ed Parker was, and did call his art "Chinese Kenpo" long before he created the commercial product for the American strip mall, store fronts, and franchises. (Remember Secrets of Chinese - "Karate" was first published in 1963)  This was when he taught things like "Two-Man Set" and forms were lifted straight from Hung Gar like "Tiger and the Crane" and incorporated into his Kenpo teachings.

The notion of "speed" being paramount was a flashy concept that came along much later in the  seventies with Motion-Kenpo. It really helped to "sell" the art. Back in the early days of Moton-Kenpo, when you mentioned Ed Parker the first thing people would say was, "Man he's fast." 

Before that it was "power." Even after motion-Kenpo he would still say, "Speed kills your technique." So there were many contridictions in his teaching depending on what he said, who he said it to, when he said it, and what aspect of kenpo in his own evolutions he was speaking about. The things he said to and discussions with Steve Herring were completely different from what he told Frank Trejo. What he talked about with Chuck Sullivan and James Ibrao was different from what he shared with Larry Tatum and Huk Planas. To add to the confusion the Motion-Kenpo concept itself promotes many concepts simultaneously so students from the same timeline would get different information. I know he had conversations with Dennis Conatser that I never heard repeated with others of his generation, as an example. I'm not suggesting one way is better than another because I really think that is an instructors burden to get the most out of what he learned and pass it to his students, but we do have to accept the many differences and gravitate to what and who we feel is best for us, and forget this notion "all Ed Parker Kenpo is the same." It's clear from these international forums there is no standardized understanding of "how" to do anything. All Kenpo from the same lineage is not the same. Never has been, and never will be.

I asked Ed Parker about all the contridictions and he said, "It's just like the Bible. It's about who, when, and what they were trying to say at the time and all subject to interpretation." If you take the Bible (or Kenpo) as a whole literally, it makes no sense. You must focus on the period you find of value, and interpret it for yourself in a positive way as a guide.

If you went by to see Mr. Herring you would see a completely different Kenpo and philosophy of Ed Parker where the "slow with power" is still alive in Mr. Herring and his lineage. I too emphasize proper mechanics first, but when we speed up it's good to go.

Tomaaaato, Tomooooto. I think I'm right, but so does everyone else. I can live with that.


----------



## Klondike93 (Aug 9, 2002)

A very interesting post to read, more food for thought.


:asian:


----------



## Doc (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *A very interesting post to read, more food for thought.
> 
> ...



"The ultimate aim of (Motion) Kenpo is to elongate circles and round off corners." Another debate I'm sure. Once again the differences are many and great. Thank you for your consideration.


----------



## WilliamTLear (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Doc _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



I hope I'm wrong, but I think you misinterpeted my post as being slightly sarcastic, it wasn't meant that way... I was asking a real question, I wasn't trying to be an A$$ Hole or any thing.

Lemme re-ask my question in a different way...

Did he tell you *why* you were doing the opposite? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of your expereince. That's all.


----------



## Doc (Aug 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



No, Mr. Lear I didn't misinterpret your question. I took it for what it was, a serious inquiry. Besides you're pretty obvious when you're being a wise a$$.  But I also know you're no dummy when you want to get serious.

You must understand for me/us, it wasn't the opposite. It was/is the prevailing method of training for what he/we were/are trying to accomplish, and this method is still the dominent way for non-commercial arts. You'll notice there are no traditional schools in every strip mall. Just the TKD's and "Self-Defense" arts.

The more appropriate question is why Motion-Kenpo trains the opposite of most traditional arts. Answer: It places a heavy emphasis on rapid progress for quick skills before students can become bored with their progress. There is nothing wrong with this. You get what you pay for. In the beginning there were only 2 belts in Kenpo, White and Black. Ed Parker gave black tape (tips) on your white belt. When you got enough, you were a black belt. It was even written on the certificates that way. One Tip, Two Tip, etc. 

All of those colors were and are about short term motivation to keep American interests by Ed Parker's own words. Ed Parker knew most Americans would get bored and go play handball (or buy a piece). The competition for desposable income is high. Bored people will find somewhere else to spend their money. Ed Parker was a genius, and gave the AVERAGE person what they wanted AND taught them something they could use. Then came the kids, and that is another story altogether. But the average person is NOT a martial arts teacher.

Traditional training methods require an emphasis on basics. MK basics are conceptual not actual. I know everyone says they emphasize basics but Ed Parker in general, stopped teaching them in the sixties in favor of the conceptual lesson plan prevelent in MK. It allows for interpretation and tailoring so students participate differently in their training. You already know I can tear down someones basics in 5 minutes and prove a better method.

Traditionally, the competent instructor gives you specific things to do and watches you and corrects every move. He doesn't allow deviation or UNNECESSARY questions. In MK the student is given the idea of what they need to accomplish and then are left to work it out for themselves. Instructors oversee training to give "tips" and advice. Some instructors do  it better than others, but the model itself is conceptually driven.

The emphasis is on executing the self-defense techniques so they work on an individual basis, not on the real basics that drive them and make them functional. That's why nobody does anything the same from school to school, student to student. They're not supposed to. They're only supposed to make it work for them.

This departure from traditionalism is part of what made Motion-Kenpo popular and drove its rapid proliferation. It is also why, in the beginning, it attracted so many students from other arts. Freedom and flexibility over more rigid structure. It allowed students of the seventies to "do their own thing" in a loose conceptual structure and get rank as well. Pretty cool when you think about it. Ed Parker's Motion-Kenpo was the first truly eclectic martial art. You might call it a "sister art" to JKD, with more structure.

Interestingly the traditional approach is nat physically harder nor does it take longer. But it does requires more self discipline to get things right, and most won't do that. The major difference is "Motion-Kenpo moves rapidly to applications and allows you to change things so they work for you. Traditional methods force you to work on things until you get them right." Coaches don't let you jump shoot, jump the hig hurdles, swim, pitch, or tackle your way. That should be a clue, but athletes who reach a certain level have more self discipline than most. No matter how talented they may be, coaches tell them when they are doing something wrong.  How many times have you heard a coach say, "Well we're not playing very well, we need to get back to basics."

But MK's short comings lie in it's dirth of truly qualified instructors. In the beginning its instructors came from other arts bringing skills with them. Motion-Kenpo students IN GENERAL do not become qualified to be it's teachers and every generation has been diluting the lesson plan ever since. Of course there are always exceptions but a black belt and an ego equal "teacher" to most. The interesting thing is the senior seniors they respect the most, don't know or teach Motion-Kenpo.

Sorry for the rambling rant.


----------



## WilliamTLear (Aug 10, 2002)

Thank you.

Billy Lear


----------

