# Is TKD really TKD anymore?



## terryl965 (Mar 15, 2012)

I went to visit a friend school last night and behold to me he is now a certified MMA school as well as Gumdo and Tai Chi. Go figure it has only been a year since last being there and all he did was TKD. He got his Gumdo certification in six weeks doing it two hours on saturday - His MMA certificate and making his school part of this org was a weekend seminar and paying the fee to say they belong to that group. His Tai Chi certificate came from his instructor he has been seeing for a few years so I do not know how long it take to be an instructor in Tai Chi so that maybe legit. 

I just find it funny throw some signs in the window pay a fee and take a few classes and you too can become a multi instructor in the M.A.'s.


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## dancingalone (Mar 15, 2012)

It's very common I'm afraid.  I understand some TKD/TSD orgs and supplementary associations also offer instructor certification in additional material like 'joint manipulation', XMA,  and 'groundfighting essentials'.  Hopefully the process involves more than a weekend seminar though.  

It is a natural outgrowing as TKD/TSD dojang compete with other martial arts schools for customers.  No one wants to appear obsolete.

I do find the phenomenon somewhat odd.  I have taught many of those things myself as part of a past curriculum but I've never found it necessary to be 'certified' in them to be credible to students or to the public.  Aside from showing my expertise on the mat, shouldn't my dan certificates be enough?


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## SahBumNimRush (Mar 15, 2012)

Nothing new, and certainly nothing unique to TKD schools.  How many years has it been since the first "mail order" certification came out in Black Belt Magazine?  It's all about integrity and/or marketing.  There's a "dojo" down the road from my house that teaches JKD, Kali, Karate, BJJ, MMA, and Navy Seal tactics, Airborne Rnager tactics, and a laundry list of others.  All but the "sensei's" Karate training was through weekend seminars and mail in certs.. .

He has one of the most successful "dojo's" in town in terms of number of students, but none are what I would consider serious students.  The serious students train at the handful of smaller traditional schools.  

We've gained several of his students over the years, who decided they were looking for something different.  We've also lost a couple of students (young rank) to them because they wanted to learn how to fight with a sword or how to fight like a "Navy Seal."  BTW, the "sensei" in question never served in the armed forces.. .


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## StudentCarl (Mar 15, 2012)

For me, performance counts most for credibility, but organization affiliation matters if the organization is credible. I presumptively give a Kukkiwon dan certificate more credibility than a guy with paper from somewhere I've never heard of. I've seen certificates with bizarre stuff on them, from incorrect Hangul to claims of WTF approval.


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## dancingalone (Mar 15, 2012)

StudentCarl said:


> For me, performance counts most for credibility, but organization affiliation matters if the organization is credible. I presumptively give a Kukkiwon dan certificate more credibility than a guy with paper from somewhere I've never heard of. I've seen certificates with bizarre stuff on them, from incorrect Hangul to claims of WTF approval.



I think there's a slippery slope there if people start comparing orgs and trying to decide which is more 'credible'.  I prefer the old way of personal lineage though certainly demonstrated skill trumps all.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 15, 2012)

Ashida Kim lives...


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## Tez3 (Mar 15, 2012)

I'm curious to know who gives MMA certification? It's never been an organised sport/style in the way of others who had an originator and spread from them. I'm not sure who could certify an MMA club other than an insurance company for insurance purposes. I'd expect an MMA club/gym to have coaches in you were involved in MMA comps and knew what they were talking about as far as training, rules etc were concerned. Anything calling itself an MMA 'school' I'd stay well away from.


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## SahBumNimRush (Mar 15, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I'm curious to know who gives MMA certification? It's never been an organised sport/style in the way of others who had an originator and spread from them. I'm not sure who could certify an MMA club other than an insurance company for insurance purposes. I'd expect an MMA club/gym to have coaches in you were involved in MMA comps and knew what they were talking about as far as training, rules etc were concerned. Anything calling itself an MMA 'school' I'd stay well away from.



I don't disagree, but this month's issue of Black Belt magazine has an ad for MMA instructor certification... .  Don't remember the org off hand though.. .


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## clfsean (Mar 15, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I'm curious to know who gives MMA certification? It's never been an organised sport/style in the way of others who had an originator and spread from them. I'm not sure who could certify an MMA club other than an insurance company for insurance purposes. I'd expect an MMA club/gym to have coaches in you were involved in MMA comps and knew what they were talking about as far as training, rules etc were concerned. Anything calling itself an MMA 'school' I'd stay well away from.



Well I will certify your MMA club for a discount price of $299.99 ... :sp76:


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## SahBumNimRush (Mar 15, 2012)

A quick search shows at least two sites that offer it:

http://mmacertification.com/

http://mixedmartialartscertification.org/


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## terryl965 (Mar 15, 2012)

Yea I was told to come for the weekend and pay 499.00 and I can get my certificate saying I am certified to teach MMA.


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## terryl965 (Mar 15, 2012)

*Arts Certification course level 1*US onlyInternationalFull TuitionPayment Plan
Academy *6* weeks *1* Certification (? more info)*$800.00**$1000.00*apply now!apply now!



*Mixed Martial Arts Advanced Certification course level 2 - Tuition*
*Mixed Martial Arts Advanced Certification course level 2*US onlyInternationalFull TuitionPayment Plan
Academy *6* weeks *1* Certification (? more info)*$800.00**$1000.00*apply now!apply now!


 

There you go 800 and you are certified


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## chrispillertkd (Mar 15, 2012)

terryl965 said:


> Yea I was told to come for the weekend and pay 499.00 and I can get my certificate saying I am certified to teach MMA.



If you got that certificate you'd be certifiable.

Pax,

Chris


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 15, 2012)

chrispillertkd said:


> If you got that certificate you'd be certifiable.
> 
> Pax,
> 
> Chris



There is a dojo near me that teaches a style that is not named but for an investment of $10,000, they will teach you the style (no former MA required) in six weeks, award you a black belt, and help you open your dojo franchise.  I only wish I hadn't wasted my life on real martial arts.  Dang.


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## SahBumNimRush (Mar 15, 2012)

The only "MMA" cert that I've seen and consider to be worthwhile, is JCS's MMA Strength and Conditioning Training Specialist.  Which involves zero combat application and 100% program design/cross training for the athletes.  It's basically a CSCS (http://www.nsca-cc.org/cscs/about.html) program specifically geared towards combat athletes.

http://www.ihpfit.com/shop/details/287/mma-level-i-cert-

It is something I've actually considered taking, not that I have any experience in MMA, nor do I have any wish to be an MMA athlete.  However, from my background in sports medicine, it can be beneficial in my other career outside of MA's (and I'm sure there would be some crossover benefit for my students when it comes to cross training program design)


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## Archtkd (Mar 15, 2012)

terryl965 said:


> Yea I was told to come for the weekend and pay 499.00 and I can get my certificate saying I am certified to teach MMA.



Yes sir, and that's the "real deal" compared to that "ballet, dancing, kiddie, no-punch to-the face and zero sef-defense" thing you have studied and taught for years. This is seriously making me consider my dojang business plan B: Adding Shank-Do Kwan to the mix, which wil be taught by my friend Matata X. He's a 13th-Slize in the art, which he learned from his mentor and Supreme Grandmaster, a lifer at the Colorado Supermax. My own expertise in Rungu-Fu, the original fighting style specializing in using the rungu, a revered Kenyan wooden weapon of the club family, might come in handy. I am the founder of the Global Rungu-Fu Federation (WRF) and it's  only 10th Dan.


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## mastercole (Mar 15, 2012)

SahBumNimRush said:


> The only "MMA" cert that I've seen and consider to be worthwhile, is JCS's MMA Strength and Conditioning Training Specialist.  Which involves zero combat application and 100% program design/cross training for the athletes.  It's basically a CSCS (http://www.nsca-cc.org/cscs/about.html) program specifically geared towards combat athletes.
> 
> http://www.ihpfit.com/shop/details/287/mma-level-i-cert-
> 
> It is something I've actually considered taking, not that I have any experience in MMA, nor do I have any wish to be an MMA athlete.  However, from my background in sports medicine, it can be beneficial in my other career outside of MA's (and I'm sure there would be some crossover benefit for my students when it comes to cross training program design)



If you have not already, you might consider learning the modern training methods of Taekwondo instead. Much of what you see happening in the video is very similar to Taekwondo's modern training methods. There are specific exercise routines for speed, strength, agility, explosiveness, etc to improve every aspect of Taekwondo skills.

I recommend this because you already are a Taekwondo practitioner.  We learned the modern training methods from the best Taekwondo coaches and athletes on the planet, my athletes do them everyday.

If you are interested, we are about 4 hours away from you. Drive up and spend a weekend or a day, my coaches will give you the whole curriculum, no charge.


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## SahBumNimRush (Mar 15, 2012)

mastercole said:


> If you have not already, you might consider learning the modern training methods of Taekwondo instead. Much of what you see happening in the video is very similar to Taekwondo's modern training methods. There are specific exercise routines for speed, strength, agility, explosiveness, etc to improve every aspect of Taekwondo skills.
> 
> I recommend this because you already are a Taekwondo practitioner.  We learned the modern training methods from the best Taekwondo coaches and athletes on the planet, my athletes do them everyday.
> 
> If you are interested, we are about 4 hours away from you. Drive up and spend a weekend or a day, my coaches will give you the whole curriculum, no charge.



Thank you very much Sir, I would very much enjoy that.


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## Tez3 (Mar 15, 2012)

I can see the point in courses for training fitness, conditioning etc that can be used for martial arts not just in TKD or MMA but with no actual governning bodies for MMA such as other styles have it would be hard to find out whether the certificates for MMA 'instructor' had any value. I know in the States there's 'governing' bodies as far as the MMA rules for fights etc but not for the licensing and/or governing of actual gyms and clubs. Sounds like a good scam to get into if you are of that mind.


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## Buka (Mar 15, 2012)

The man that started it all back in the sixties, John Keehan. Rock on, Count Dante, rock on.


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## msmitht (Mar 16, 2012)

Does anyone remember tae bo? Cardio kick box? Its the same thing all over again. Bs short term training for so called experts to be certified to do whatever they want. Sad thing is people actually pay to learn this crap from someone who bareley knows it themselves. Shame on anyone who takes advantage of others in this way!


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## Kong Soo Do (Mar 16, 2012)

Be it Taekwondo or Karate, if the information contained in the forms was fully understood by the majority of instructors, they would have no need for flavor-of-the-month add-ons to the core art.  Forms contain, in addition to strikes and kicks, grappling (standing and ground), locks, chokes, throws etc.  What is needed is a more in-depth understanding of the core art, not a weekend seminar.


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## Manny (Mar 16, 2012)

Frankly in my cuty I have located two or three of dojos like the one master Terry wrote and everytime I got to watch these super dojos (McDojos) I only laugh. Last weeken I went to small shoping plaza where a new TKD dojang is located, the dojo is nice (brand new) but I don't know the organitation the sambonim is afiliated,  this dojo also have  classes or kickboxing and ninjitsu (Frank Dux... remeber him). The sambonim asked me to sit and watch the class and asked me if I wana join... poor guy.. if he will know.... I could teach there and my class will be better than those flashy techs he was teaching, however I politely declined and asked for the organization cause I've never herd a thing abou it.... and I can go on and on.

Avoid the Mcdojos wehere several martial arts are imparted, and always ask info about the dojang, the kwan jang nim, ask to see the certification and look around a nice looking dojo is not guarantee of good tition.

Manny


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## Earl Weiss (Mar 16, 2012)

Buka said:


> The man that started it all back in the sixties, John Keehan. Rock on, Count Dante, rock on.




John Keehan was a character to be sure.  But, he was also one to stand behind his mouth. I went to visit him once at the school in Chicago. Every square inch of the walls seemed to have a weapon on them and for good reason. He was involved in the Dojo wars where his group would go to other Dojos and Challenge then or others would come to his gym.  Having weapons within easy reach was one way to deter someone coming in with weaposn to have an unfair advantage.
 Sadly, this is exactly what happened. Someone brought a knife to the fist fight and someone ended up dead. That was the last of the Dojo wars in this area.


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## puunui (Mar 18, 2012)

msmitht said:


> Does anyone remember tae bo? Cardio kick box? Its the same thing all over again. Bs short term training for so called experts to be certified to do whatever they want. Sad thing is people actually pay to learn this crap from someone who bareley knows it themselves. Shame on anyone who takes advantage of others in this way!



I think the people that did taebo and cardio kickboxing really enjoyed it. You can still find classes on that at taekwondo schools here, although it is getting pushed out by zumba. But cardio kickboxing classes kept many a dojang afloat during its heyday.


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## Earl Weiss (Mar 18, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Be it Taekwondo or Karate, if the information contained in the forms was fully understood by the majority of instructors, they would have no need for flavor-of-the-month add-ons to the core art. Forms contain, in addition to strikes and kicks, grappling (standing and ground), locks, chokes, throws etc. What is needed is a more in-depth understanding of the core art, not a weekend seminar.



I really don't want to invet that much time and energy or find a knowledgeable instructor. I'll just pick the cheapes and closest school with fancy stuff and write the checks till I get my BB and then move on to the next thing.


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## Buka (Mar 18, 2012)

Earl Weiss said:


> John Keehan was a character to be sure.  But, he was also one to stand behind his mouth. I went to visit him once at the school in Chicago. Every square inch of the walls seemed to have a weapon on them and for good reason. He was involved in the Dojo wars where his group would go to other Dojos and Challenge then or others would come to his gym.  Having weapons within easy reach was one way to deter someone coming in with weaposn to have an unfair advantage.
> Sadly, this is exactly what happened. Someone brought a knife to the fist fight and someone ended up dead. That was the last of the Dojo wars in this area.



The fact that you visited him is awesome! (at least to me)
I remember all the dojo wars. (hearing about them, not being there). If I remember correctly, I think the man who died was Jim Concivek. (sp) and that his death was the first Martial Arts related death in the United States. Although I could never verify that, despite looking for years. I had always heard he was shot in the neck with bow and arrow, but I don't know if that is fact. 

Didn't Count Dante walk down a street in Chicago leading a bull? (For publicity)
 Interesting man. Interesting time, too.


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## Gorilla (Mar 18, 2012)

puunui said:


> I think the people that did taebo and cardio kickboxing really enjoyed it. You can still find classes on that at taekwondo schools here, although it is getting pushed out by zumba. But cardio kickboxing classes kept many a dojang afloat during its heyday.



 Billy Blanks is a highly respected martial artist at least in the circles that I travel in.   His abilities are legendary.


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## Tez3 (Mar 18, 2012)

Gorilla said:


> Billy Blanks is a highly respected martial artist at least in the circles that I travel in. His abilities are legendary.



I'm sure Taebo wasn't marketed as anything other than what it was, for exercise and fitness. I've seen the DVDs and I'm sure nothing was said about SD etc, just fitness workouts. It was honest and actually good at what it did ( does?)


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## Gorilla (Mar 18, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I'm sure Taebo wasn't marketed as anything other than what it was, for exercise and fitness. I've seen the DVDs and I'm sure nothing was said about SD etc, just fitness workouts. It was honest and actually good at what it did ( does?)



Absolutely


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## puunui (Mar 18, 2012)

Gorilla said:


> Billy Blanks is a highly respected martial artist at least in the circles that I travel in.   His abilities are legendary.



He used to compete at USTU nationals but would get disqualified because of his unorthodox techniques. He would do cartwheel kicks for example, and land it, but the point wouldn't score because his hands touched the ground. His student Chavela Aaron made team though and she took silver at worlds one year.


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## Miles (Mar 18, 2012)

mastercole said:


> If you have not already, you might consider learning the modern training methods of Taekwondo instead. Much of what you see happening in the video is very similar to Taekwondo's modern training methods. There are specific exercise routines for speed, strength, agility, explosiveness, etc to improve every aspect of Taekwondo skills.
> 
> I recommend this because you already are a Taekwondo practitioner.  We learned the modern training methods from the best Taekwondo coaches and athletes on the planet, my athletes do them everyday.
> 
> If you are interested, we are about 4 hours away from you. Drive up and spend a weekend or a day, my coaches will give you the whole curriculum, no charge.



Totally off-topic unsolicited plug for which I apologize, but SahBumNim Rush, I had the great pleasure of meeting Mastercole at his dojang when he hosted Dr. Jin Bang Yang, one of the premier Taekwondo Professors in Korea and the producer of a series of videotapes entitled "The Science of Taekwondo Fighting."  Dr. Yang taught the modern training methods which have made his students champions.  If you have the opportunity to train with Mastercole, you should do so for yourself and most of all, for your students.


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## Gorilla (Mar 18, 2012)

puunui said:


> He used to compete at USTU nationals but would get disqualified because of his unorthodox techniques. He would do cartwheel kicks for example, and land it, but the point wouldn't score because his hands touched the ground. His student Chavela Aaron made team though and she took silver at worlds one year.


My kids Tkd coach and their Karate coach speak about his abilities with much respect.  Almost a superman type of athlete.


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## mastercole (Mar 18, 2012)

Miles said:


> Totally off-topic unsolicited plug for which I apologize, but SahBumNim Rush, I had the great pleasure of meeting Mastercole at his dojang when he hosted Dr. Jin Bang Yang, one of the premier Taekwondo Professors in Korea and the producer of a series of videotapes entitled "The Science of Taekwondo Fighting."  Dr. Yang taught the modern training methods which have made his students champions.  If you have the opportunity to train with Mastercole, you should do so for yourself and most of all, for your students.



Master Miles, I have some photos from that event, I'll post the one below that I think you are in. That was in my dojang in Mentor, Ohio. World Champion Ki Moon Kwon and Prof. Yong Jae Ko were acting as his assistant. We have Taekwondoin from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New York and Kentucky there. The late Master Kieth Krotish had just helped Dr. Yang with those videos, which were hugely popular at the time.  Right before that it was GM Sang Lee's Going for the Gold (?) sparring video's, then, the WTF Art of Competition video, also produced by Dr. Yang for the WTF.







[/IMG]


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## Buka (Mar 18, 2012)

puunui said:


> He used to compete at USTU nationals but would get disqualified because of his unorthodox techniques. He would do cartwheel kicks for example, and land it, but the point wouldn't score because his hands touched the ground. His student Chavela Aaron made team though and she took silver at worlds one year.



A couple of times, Billy threw that cartwheel kick - into a head scissors, a successful head scissors, and took the opponent down like he was hit by a plane. It was pretty funny.


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## puunui (Mar 18, 2012)

Miles said:


> I had the great pleasure of meeting Mastercole at his dojang when he hosted Dr. Jin Bang Yang, one of the premier Taekwondo Professors in Korea and the producer of a series of videotapes entitled "The Science of Taekwondo Fighting."  Dr. Yang taught the modern training methods which have made his students champions.



Dr. Yang moved to the US and went to the University of North Carolina to get his Ph.D. While there, he turned North Carolina into a taekwondo powerhouse and within a short period of time, had people who were regularly medaling at Nationals in the senior black belt divisions. He subsequently moved back to Korea to take positions at the KTA, where he presently serves as Executive Director. His distinction is being Jidokwan GM LEE Chong Woo's last personal student. His family still lives in North Carolina, and I understand Dr. Yang regularly travels back and forth between Korea and the US to see his family.


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## puunui (Mar 18, 2012)

mastercole said:


> World Champion Ki Moon Kwon and Prof. Yong Jae Ko were acting as his assistant.



GM Ki Moon KWON, who is a very nice gentleman, has the distinction of being one of the first competitors at a WTF International Event featured on TV. It was in 1981 at the World Games, which were being held at Toso Pavillion in Santa Clara, California and the event was covered by ABC's Wide World of Sports. I remember casually flipping through the channels when I happened to catch it, so I videotaped it. GM Kwon fought GM Dae Sung Lee in the finweight finals. There was another match, between Spain's Co Banito and Korea's Kimo Yang I think his name was. The commentator was Master Kim Royce, a heavyweight National Team Member from UC Berkeley. I later met GM Kwon through an introduction from mastercole, and I told him I remembered his name because of that ABC broadcast, which surprised GM Kwon.


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## SahBumNimRush (Mar 19, 2012)

mastercole said:


> Master Miles, I have some photos from that event, I'll post the one below that I think you are in. That was in my dojang in Mentor, Ohio. World Champion Ki Moon Kwon and Prof. Yong Jae Ko were acting as his assistant. We have Taekwondoin from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New York and Kentucky there. The late Master Kieth Krotish had just helped Dr. Yang with those videos, which were hugely popular at the time.  Right before that it was GM Sang Lee's Going for the Gold (?) sparring video's, then, the WTF Art of Competition video, also produced by Dr. Yang for the WTF.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that Master Ron Hickey (student of GM AHN) I see front row, second from left (first face in front row on left)?


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## SahBumNimRush (Mar 19, 2012)

Miles said:


> Totally off-topic unsolicited plug for which I apologize, but SahBumNim Rush, I had the great pleasure of meeting Mastercole at his dojang when he hosted Dr. Jin Bang Yang, one of the premier Taekwondo Professors in Korea and the producer of a series of videotapes entitled "The Science of Taekwondo Fighting."  Dr. Yang taught the modern training methods which have made his students champions.  If you have the opportunity to train with Mastercole, you should do so for yourself and most of all, for your students.



Thanks for the comment Miles, it is something that I am very much interested in.  I just have to allot some time and see if we can match up our schedules.. .


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## Miles (Mar 19, 2012)

mastercole said:


> Master Miles, I have some photos from that event, I'll post the one below that I think you are in. That was in my dojang in Mentor, Ohio. World Champion Ki Moon Kwon and Prof. Yong Jae Ko were acting as his assistant. We have Taekwondoin from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New York and Kentucky there. The late Master Kieth Krotish had just helped Dr. Yang with those videos, which were hugely popular at the time.  Right before that it was GM Sang Lee's Going for the Gold (?) sparring video's, then, the WTF Art of Competition video, also produced by Dr. Yang for the WTF.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you Mastercole, that's me in the forefront just to the right of the bald gentleman from OH.


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## mastercole (Mar 19, 2012)

SahBumNimRush said:


> Is that Master Ron Hickey (student of GM AHN) I see front row, second from left (first face in front row on left)?



Yes, that is GM Hickey, he attended with GM Limes who is also from GM Ahn's in Cincinnati. GM Hickey is one of the hand full of American born Taekwondoin I consider my big senior. He is a great man and I hold a tremendous amount of respect for him. Like his teacher GM Ahn, he has given me a lot of very good advise over the past 3 decades and I would not have been able to achieve some of the things I have without his help.


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## SahBumNimRush (Mar 19, 2012)

mastercole said:


> Yes, that is GM Hickey, he attended with GM Limes who is also from GM Ahn's in Cincinnati. GM Hickey is one of the hand full of American born Taekwondoin I consider my big senior. He is a great man and I hold a tremendous amount of respect for him. Like his teacher GM Ahn, he has given me a lot of very good advise over the past 3 decades and I would not have been able to achieve some of the things I have without his help.



Yeah, I always liked GM Hickey.  Very nice and approachable man.


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## SahBumNimRush (Mar 19, 2012)

I know of GM Kim Limes, but I don't think I've had the pleasure of speaking with him.. .


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## mastercole (Mar 19, 2012)

SahBumNimRush said:


> Yeah, I always liked GM Hickey.  Very nice and approachable man.



Master David Johnson from GM Ahn's school might be GM Hickey's most notable student. David was and still is an excellent fighter. GM Hickey spent a lot of time training him. In the early 90's David needed a coach at Nationals so he grabbed me. I remember sitting in chair thinking he has to be the hardest hitting guy here. His round kicks were lifting people off the ground. He went on to medal at the event. Fast forward to 2007 or 2008, I took a group of competitors to GM Ahn's tournament and got to watch David win gold in the men's WTF black belt division, then fight for the grand championship against a young guy from GM Ki Whang Kim lineage who was I believe the Champion point fighter from NASKA, or some similar group. It was a very close fight, the kid won the match, I think he as coaches by his dad. The kid was really good, good enough that he might be able to switch over to the Olympic circuit.  Anyway, David still had it after not competing for many years and being much older.


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## mastercole (Mar 19, 2012)

puunui said:


> GM Ki Moon KWON, who is a very nice gentleman, has the distinction of being one of the first competitors at a WTF International Event featured on TV. It was in 1981 at the World Games, which were being held at Toso Pavillion in Santa Clara, California and the event was covered by ABC's Wide World of Sports. I remember casually flipping through the channels when I happened to catch it, so I videotaped it. GM Kwon fought GM Dae Sung Lee in the finweight finals. There was another match, between Spain's Co Banito and Korea's Kimo Yang I think his name was. The commentator was Master Kim Royce, a heavyweight National Team Member from UC Berkeley. I later met GM Kwon through an introduction from mastercole, and I told him I remembered his name because of that ABC broadcast, which surprised GM Kwon.



I have a video clip of GM Kwon and GM Myung Sam Chang (Olympic Champion) entertaining the crowd at our 1997 tournament. It's all unrehearsed and just for fun. These guys never trained for demonstration, they were fighters.  The MC is GM Joon Lee from Lee Brothers.


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## RobinTKD (Mar 19, 2012)

What a great video Master Cole, thanks for sharing!


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## Drew Ahn-Kim (Jan 2, 2016)

mastercole said:


> Yes, that is GM Hickey, he attended with GM Limes who is also from GM Ahn's in Cincinnati. GM Hickey is one of the hand full of American born Taekwondoin I consider my big senior. He is a great man and I hold a tremendous amount of respect for him. Like his teacher GM Ahn, he has given me a lot of very good advise over the past 3 decades and I would not have been able to achieve some of the things I have without his help.





mastercole said:


> Master David Johnson from GM Ahn's school might be GM Hickey's most notable student. David was and still is an excellent fighter. GM Hickey spent a lot of time training him. In the early 90's David needed a coach at Nationals so he grabbed me. I remember sitting in chair thinking he has to be the hardest hitting guy here. His round kicks were lifting people off the ground. He went on to medal at the event. Fast forward to 2007 or 2008, I took a group of competitors to GM Ahn's tournament and got to watch David win gold in the men's WTF black belt division, then fight for the grand championship against a young guy from GM Ki Whang Kim lineage who was I believe the Champion point fighter from NASKA, or some similar group. It was a very close fight, the kid won the match, I think he as coaches by his dad. The kid was really good, good enough that he might be able to switch over to the Olympic circuit.  Anyway, David still had it after not competing for many years and being much older.



I'm actually Grandmaster Ahn's oldest grandchild, his first to get a Black Belt, and I grew up around all the aforementioned Grandmasters.  They are like family to me, but at the same time when we were at the dojang I was never given any special treatment.  Grandmaster Hickey is one of the most stand-up individuals I've met in my life, I still talk to him from time to time, especially for advice on re-entering the world of TaeKwonDo after spending a great deal of my teen years studying Karate and Judo (lived in Japan), followed by a passion for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

Master David Johnson was always the most feared competitor in my young eyes, and an absolute stellar competitor and athlete.  As a kid he terrified me, but he elevated my game and confidence to amazing levels.  I've recently been to the Ahn classic with my Grandfather and I got to meet up with GMs Limes, Hickey, David Johnson and several others.  I'm still only 25, and young in my journey as a martial artist, but I have a love and frankly Taekwondo running through my veins, but also have trained at some of the top BJJ gyms with great MMA fighters and coaches.  I see ways to keep Taekwondo's spirit and core in tact, while supplementing it with grappling.  More than techniques though, its the understanding of the principles of ground fighting, positioning and control, and ESPECIALLY how to get back up.

Anyways, great to see respect for the amazing men mentioned above, and I look foward to engaging in discussions here.  Keep it alive brothers and sisters.


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## Balrog (Jan 2, 2016)

terryl965 said:


> Yea I was told to come for the weekend and pay 499.00 and I can get my certificate saying I am certified to teach MMA.


You don't need that, you need this.


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