# Biting



## Em MacIntosh (Jul 10, 2007)

This is long overdue on my part but I feel I would like to discuss it.  I have found it to be such an effective option that I always consider it.  I know there are definite disease risks but if I get the opportunity, it's my meanest form of grapple.  Fighting makes me hungry I guess.  It also seems unexpected.  Not that I try to go in chin first but if I had one trademark...
Anyway, who's hungry for discussion?


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## Hawke (Jul 10, 2007)

Kino Mutai -vampfeed-

Source: http://www.fullcombat.com/Articles/Martial Art Styles/Kina Mutai.html


> Whenever biting is mentioned, the first thing that                          usually comes to mind is, "Anyone can bite." In reality,                          that bland assertion is true, but the difference between                          "just plain biting" and kino mutai is how to bite, where                          to bite and when to bite. A kino mutai practitioners                          bite is "uninterrupted." That means he knows the exact                          places on your body to bite and does so with precise                          timing. He grabs hold of you using his superior grip                          strength and bites areas that would take you literally                          minutes to pull him off. There are more than 140 places                          on the human body that he can bite for as long as he                          wants. While biting, he is implementing his knowledge of                          kinesiology and sensitivity to hang on like a pit bull.


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## CoryKS (Jul 10, 2007)

Oof.  The rest of that article is not for the squeamish.


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## MJS (Jul 10, 2007)

Vunak has a tape out on Kino Mutai.  I've seen it and he brings up some good points.  Like the linked article says, he shows where to bite as well as the proper way.

The thought of biting someone is not a pleasant thought, but then again, is punching someone in the face, kicking someone in the groin or poking someone in the eye?  Fighting is pleasant, but if we're training in the arts for SD, then you basically have to do what you have to do.  If my life depended on it, then I'd do it if I had to.

Mike


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## MJS (Jul 10, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> Oof. The rest of that article is not for the squeamish.


 

Yes, I 2nd that!!!


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## terryl965 (Jul 10, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> Oof. The rest of that article is not for the squeamish.


 

I will give it a third man that is brutal


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## bushidomartialarts (Jul 10, 2007)

whoof.  third that.

also emphasis on the warning against sharing that much body fluid.

but effective in a pinch?  certainly.


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 10, 2007)

Jeee-zus. Agreement The Fourth.

I would most definitely bite if my life or the lives of my kids were on the line, but damn... with all the hairy stuff folks can catch these days... 
scary to think about being forced to use this kind of thing.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 10, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> Jeee-zus. Agreement The Fourth.
> 
> I would most definitely bite if my life or the lives of my kids were on the line, but damn... with all the hairy stuff folks can catch these days...
> scary to think about being forced to use this kind of thing.


As a last possible resort if he's got you in a choke hold or something that will hurt you worse... throw that thought out the window and go for it because you may have to someday.


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## Sensei Payne (Jul 10, 2007)

By law, biting someone and breaking the skin, drawing any kind of blood is considered assult with a deadly weapon in some states.

Reason being is that the human mouth has so many bacteria in it that the wound would definitly becime infected unless treated, and a infection anywhere can move cause permenant injury or even death


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 11, 2007)

Sensei Payne said:


> By law, biting someone and breaking the skin, drawing any kind of blood is considered assult with a deadly weapon in some states.



GREAT. One more thing to think about.

I had a friend that almost lost a hand because he punched a guy in the mouth and got a tooth lodged in his middle knuckle. In less then 24hrs he was in danger of losing HIS HAND. No joke.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 11, 2007)

Sensei Payne said:


> By law, biting someone and breaking the skin, drawing any kind of blood is considered assult with a deadly weapon in some states.
> 
> Reason being is that the human mouth has so many bacteria in it that the wound would definitly becime infected unless treated, and a infection anywhere can move cause permenant injury or even death


Well not only that but if a person is so bent on doing so they can bite out a major vein or artery along the neck, arms, legs. Where do you think Vampire stories come from?


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## zDom (Jul 11, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> Well not only that but if a person is so bent on doing so they can bite out a major vein or artery along the neck, arms, legs. Where do you think Vampire stories come from?



From Drac, of course. A vamp has to eat, after all.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 11, 2007)

Sensei Payne said:


> By law, biting someone and breaking the skin, drawing any kind of blood is considered assult with a deadly weapon in some states.
> 
> Reason being is that the human mouth has so many bacteria in it that the wound would definitly becime infected unless treated, and a infection anywhere can move cause permenant injury or even death


 
Did you know that some of the meanest, toughest bacteria in the world exist no were but the human mouth? Seriously. That's why people get sick as much as they do. If you got everything your body was exposed to, you would never get better. But man, some of the things that are in you mouth... scarry.
Anyways, something I used in an argument once. This gentlman thinks he's an MMA fighter (I'll be posting a thread on this later, so you'll get to see it later), anyways. He said if he had the oppertunity, he would put me in an arm bar. I had him demostrate which of the trilions of arm bars he meant. He showd me the standard, both legs across the body, arm across the groin... you know the one I'm talking about. I said, if you put one of your legs across my face like that, I'm just gonna take a bite out of your leg. Somehow, he thinks that he could then still kick me across the face. I doubt it. Even if not, he likes the wrestlers clinch. I'll take a nice bite out of his neck... let him bleed out.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jul 11, 2007)

I kinda got my "philosophy of biting" from a cpr course.  I asked "should you roll them onto their side?  What if they have a broken neck?".
"If they can't breath, a broken neck doesn't matter."  This quickly translates to, "I'll deal with saving my life first, then I'll get tested for disease.  There's also a psychological point it gets across to someone very quickly.  

I too had a freind who almost lost a hand from punching a guy in the mouth.  It bit deep into his middle knuckle and later that night, no word of a lie, it got extra white and puffy around the wound.  By the time we got him to a hospital it had swelled like a balloon and he spent 48 hours on an antibiotic I.V.  The doctor said he would've lost his hand at the elbow if he had given it another 12 hours.  He said the infection had already spread halfway up his arm.  Someone wants to consider that before EVER engaging something with teeth, but espeacially the human mouth.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 11, 2007)

Yah, thats why I perfer to punch the nose over the mouth. I don't really want to lose my hands.... I like writing too much.


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## qi-tah (Jul 12, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> Did you know that some of the meanest, toughest bacteria in the world exist no were but the human mouth? Seriously. That's why people get sick as much as they do. If you got everything your body was exposed to, you would never get better. But man, some of the things that are in you mouth... scarry.


 
Yeah, i had the do the "swab out yr spit" experiment in Microbiology class once... ew, the stuff our class grew! Talk about biological weaponry...


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 12, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I too had a freind who almost lost a hand from punching a guy in the mouth.  It bit deep into his middle knuckle and later that night, no word of a lie, it got extra white and puffy around the wound.  By the time we got him to a hospital it had swelled like a balloon and he spent 48 hours on an antibiotic I.V.  The doctor said he would've lost his hand at the elbow if he had given it another 12 hours.  He said the infection had already spread halfway up his arm.  Someone wants to consider that before EVER engaging something with teeth, but espeacially the human mouth.



*AND THAT'S WHY I HATE PUNCHING TO THE FACE!!!*


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 12, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Yeah, i had the do the "swab out yr spit" experiment in Microbiology class once... ew, the stuff our class grew! Talk about biological weaponry...


 
In my anatomy class (high school) we did a tour of Iowa Western (I geuss it has a good science program). We could take intro to differnit classes. One of the girls in my class did one of the dental classes. She got 4 of those dishes. Swabbed the bottom of her purse, top of her fridge, her mouth, and I cann't remember what else she had. Wanna geuss what had the most germs? Not her mouth, her purse! Not sure why though.


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 12, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> In my anatomy class (high school) we did a tour of Iowa Western (I geuss it has a good science program). We could take intro to differnit classes. One of the girls in my class did one of the dental classes. She got 4 of those dishes. Swabbed the bottom of her purse, top of her fridge, her mouth, and I cann't remember what else she had. Wanna geuss what had the most germs? Not her mouth, her purse! Not sure why though.



*AND THAT'S WHY I DON'T CARRY A MAN-PURSE!!!*

Well, sometimes I do...  
much more than I punch to the face, that is...


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## qi-tah (Jul 12, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> *AND THAT'S WHY I DON'T CARRY A MAN-PURSE!!!*
> 
> Well, sometimes I do...
> much more than I punch to the face, that is...


 
I guess you could just take a swipe at their gob with the purse and let the bugs duke it out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





In the reddd cornerrr... "the king of the trachea"... _Heamophilus influenzae_! And in the blue cornerrrr... from the darkness of the bottomless pit, next to the 50 cent peice, _Enterococcus faecalis_! Let's get rrready to rrrumble!!


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 12, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> I guess you could just take a swipe at their gob with the purse and let the bugs duke it out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I'd pay to see that fight. My money is on Heamophilus influenzae. Some thing about that name just makes it sound like a good fighter. 
-Imagines two virus in an MMA ring going at, the flu being a striker around since the game began, the faecalis being a newbie grappler with an attitude problem-


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## still learning (Jul 17, 2007)

Hello, Biting is just another martial art tool that can be use when NEEDED!

It may be one of the better techniques in certain situtions.  DO NOT LIMIT YOUR SELF FROM BITING SOMEONE!  It maybe the only way to escape?

First post mention only 140 place to bit?   try biting someone ( S )?  can be plenty spots upper/lower/left/right/almost endless?

The nose? ears? lips? cheeks? ....Biting works and yes there is always a risk.  In any fighing situtions there is risk! 

The human mouth is full of bacterial.  How many people die from KISSING?  The FRENCH Know how to avoid bacterial  

Biting the human body? .....just another technique!  Biting food is usefully too!  buts put human bacterial on your food.  avoid using antibacterial soap for washing the mouth? ....NO taste so good!  ...but it does work killing germs and help keep others from kissing you?  Avoidance!

There is NO rules in survivaling an attacker.....Bit and bit somemore..use it wisely....best if you have teeth................Aloha...(just biting a ripe banana...oops forgot to peal it.........


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## Garth Barnard (Jul 18, 2007)

When using the teeth; *Bite, don't eat!

*I've used the bite a few times before and it's only good for producing a startle/flinch response, nothing more.  

I've really sank my teeth into someone before, but due to the effects of their adrenaline I never got the pain compliance I was intending to get, instead, they just got angrier!

Yet a quick and simple bite (a pinch effect using the teeth) and let go would produce a startle/flinch response enabling an opening for a 'finisher'.

*Bite, don't eat!*


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 18, 2007)

I'm not sure if i agree with your oppion Garth Barnard. Between the muscles of the jaw and the leverage of the mandable (lower jaw bone), many can generate more force from there mouth then there fists. Highly trained Martial Artist are obiviously a possible exception. There is also the fact that teeth are sharp. I'm sure many people could bite someone in the neck hard enough to cause a cut and open the jugular. 
Biting does have it's fall backs, like getting AIDS. But, it is possible to get more then just a flinch response out of somebody.


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## Garth Barnard (Jul 19, 2007)

Hi CN,

You're correct, the jaw is very powerful and the teeth are very sharp, making the possibility of biting and removing flesh very likely.  However, using your example, you're limiting yourself to a small target, i.e. the neck, but then on a fully clothed person that's all you're going to get.

I was coming from a more general angle.  When I had the physical confrontation (whilst 'Minding') involving me resorting to biting, the aggressor was fully clothed, under the influence of alcohol and extremely aggressive.  Cutting a long story short; the ONLY target available at THAT time (mid-way through the fight), and in THAT situation (I was a in a standing clinch) was to bite the shoulder/upper bicep through a T-shirt.  I bit as hard as I possibly could and although I drew blood I was unable to bite through the T-shirt.  I kept the bite on, but the guy just got more aggressive, probably down to another boost of adrenaline

For pain compliance to work (how I'd want it to work) it has to be short and sharp.

Once I let the bite go I was able to select another target, which happened to be further up the shoulder, nearer the neck.  This time I bit hard and fast, releasing the bite as quickly as I put it on.  The reaction I got was a startle/flinch response, which was enough to break one of his underhooks.  I was then able to apply a one handed Thai Clinch and drive knees into his abdomen.  Once I had regained the upper-hand I was able to finish the fight effectively and efficiently.

I'm not saying that biting chunks out of people isn't possible, but what I am saying is that a simple bite, in my experience, would be my prefered choice.  Hence why I prefer to Bite, not eat.

Take care.


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## Tez3 (Jul 19, 2007)

This is fine for people whose teeth don't come out when they bite!


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 19, 2007)

Garth Barnard said:


> Hi CN,
> 
> You're correct, the jaw is very powerful and the teeth are very sharp, making the possibility of biting and removing flesh very likely. However, using your example, you're limiting yourself to a small target, i.e. the neck, but then on a fully clothed person that's all you're going to get.
> 
> ...


 
I choose the neck because it is a big target, and I doubt anyone would say that it is not a valid target. And biting that target i don't imagine would do too much. Or striking it in general. And really the only place I would do more then bite would be the ears or maybe the nose. If you're into Pro Boxing, you can probably agree that ear eating will defenitly work!


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 19, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> This is fine for people whose teeth don't come out when they bite!


 
Tez, dont tell me yours are fake! If nothing else you can remove then and start gumming! That'll tickle 'em into leaving you alone!


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## Em MacIntosh (Jul 19, 2007)

The psychology of portraying myself as a psychotic, sadist, cannibal, from the darkest depths of Arkham insane asylum is kind of a total package.  Growl, bite hard and shake your head.  Hold his head still with a thumb gouge to the eye, pull an ear off and generally growl in extreme rage (emotional control?).  It is really discouraging for an opponent unless they are as "down" as you are.  Primary reason to avoid a fight is how badly you don't want to lose.  How far will you go?  I've been practicing on steak...


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 19, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> The psychology of portraying myself as a psychotic, sadist, cannibal, from the darkest depths of Arkham insane asylum is kind of a total package. Growl, bite hard and shake your head. Hold his head still with a thumb gouge to the eye, pull an ear off and generally growl in extreme rage (emotional control?). It is really discouraging for an opponent unless they are as "down" as you are. Primary reason to avoid a fight is how badly you don't want to lose. How far will you go? I've been practicing on steak...


 
Batman nerd Em? It shows form the Arkham line. That's really funny. I just wounder if it work on some one tripped out on LSD? OK, I dont really care cause the only thing that'll work then is there death.
Anyways, I now feel like steak!


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## Em MacIntosh (Jul 19, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> Batman nerd Em? It shows form the Arkham line. That's really funny. I just wounder if it work on some one tripped out on LSD? OK, I dont really care cause the only thing that'll work then is there death.
> Anyways, I now feel like steak!


 
More of a Joker nerd, lol.  I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the combat effects of LSD.  I'm going for lunch soon...pasta doesn't fight back as much as steak...


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 19, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> More of a Joker nerd, lol. I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the combat effects of LSD. I'm going for lunch soon...pasta doesn't fight back as much as steak...


LOL. But pasta wont clog your artiries!


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## CoryKS (Jul 19, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> Batman nerd Em? It shows form the Arkham line. That's really funny. I just wounder if it work on some one tripped out on LSD? OK, I dont really care cause the only thing that'll work then is there death.
> Anyways, I now feel like steak!


 
I believe you're thinking of PCP?  With the acidheads, you just tell them to go away or you'll sic the little red spiders on them.  :rofl:


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 19, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> I believe you're thinking of PCP? With the acidheads, you just tell them to go away or you'll sic the little red spiders on them. :rofl:


:erg: thats an Uber LOL dude.


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## redfang (Jul 23, 2007)

I remember using a bite to the cheek when I was a teenager and was attacked by three teenage males. It had a great psychological effect on them, as a large chunk of cheek was removed from the face of the lead attacker. Now, this was the mid 80's, we had just barely heard of AIDs, and I had very little training then. I've had numerous violent encounters since and have not needed to resort to biting. Though I have been bit, both as an LEO and in my previous career, which was working with SBH teens.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jul 23, 2007)

As long as someone who gets bit gets on the antibiotics at a hospital ASAP, I think it's one of the less lethal but extremely effective options available.  I find the psychology of it to be the main deal but the damage can be quite extensive (and disfiguring).  I consider it being willing to go "all the way", and it tests the other person's resolve in the same way.  I bite because I'd never want to fight a biter.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Jul 23, 2007)

I saw a guy at a Hardcore show inthe early 90s bite another man's lower lip off, brutal.

As a last ditch, I would bite, got a guy in Kesagatmae, bite his nose or throat, just makesure to drool alot of spit as you do it so you dot take in his blood.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 23, 2007)

Darth F.Takeda said:


> just makesure to drool alot of spit as you do it so you dot take in his blood.


 
Or to freak him out so as to make him think that you are in fact a psychotic sadist cannibal from the darkest depths of Arkhum insane aslyum. Anouther good way to keep some body off you.

NOTE: A poke at Em MacIntosh is intended. If you don't like it, complain to him, it is his fault.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jul 24, 2007)

Darth F.Takeda said:


> just makesure to drool alot of spit as you do it so you dot take in his blood.


 
That's very good advice.  Speaking of which, spitting in someone's eye is a nice distraction.  Might give you enough time to get a hard shot in.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 24, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> That's very good advice. Speaking of which, spitting in someone's eye is a nice distraction. Might give you enough time to get a hard shot in.


 
Or run for your life.


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## Balrog (Jul 24, 2007)

Grandmaster say:  Bad guy taste like chicken!

:ultracool


Seriously, though, biting is a very viable defense.  Yes, there are issues with blood and germs, etc., but let's face it:  if I'm a bad guy and my victim is ripping my ear off with his/her teeth, I'm not going to be all that focused on my attack any more.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 24, 2007)

Balrog said:


> if I'm a bad guy and my victim is ripping my ear off with his/her teeth, I'm not going to be all that focused on my attack any more.


 
You watch heavy weight boxing don't you?


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## Garth Barnard (Jul 25, 2007)

Darth F.Takeda said:


> .........just makesure to drool alot of spit as you do it so you dot take in his blood.



On a serious note; one of the many effects of adrenaline is a dry mouth, so drooling may not be that easy. :wink1:


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## Em MacIntosh (Jul 25, 2007)

I salivate in anticipation of their suffering...


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## Garth Barnard (Jul 25, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I salivate in anticipation of their suffering...



I like that, Em.   Well, if it works for you......  :ultracool

Take care.


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## INDYFIGHTER (Jul 25, 2007)

I got bit Memorial day weekend.  Let me tell you it sucks!!!  I was pretty much helpless to do anything until he let go.  I was lucky in many ways but most of all because I didn't get an infection.


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## Guardian (Nov 17, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> This is long overdue on my part but I feel I would like to discuss it. I have found it to be such an effective option that I always consider it. I know there are definite disease risks but if I get the opportunity, it's my meanest form of grapple. Fighting makes me hungry I guess. It also seems unexpected. Not that I try to go in chin first but if I had one trademark...
> Anyway, who's hungry for discussion?


 
Biting is an effective form especially in close quarters.  Don't forget pinching also, less chance of trasmitting or acquiring a disease, but sure hurts like heck also.  I use to teach my womans SD class that little (very seldom thought of) manuever, especially when they are grabbed.


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