# A New Journey



## Gyakuto (Oct 31, 2022)

I’ve finally decided to try Aikido after years of turning my nose up at because of the sight of people seemingly throwing _themselves_ around and, of course, because of Steven Seagulls 🦆

I watched an NHK Spiritual Explorers episode about it (not a very good one) and this prompted me do a search for a local dojo. After a couple of emails from the teacher asking about my motivations, health etc,he invited me along this coming Thursday. I’m looking forward to it.


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## _Simon_ (Oct 31, 2022)

That is bloody fantastic brother, I reckon you'll love it, have fun and enjoy the new journey! Let us know how you go


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## Gyakuto (Oct 31, 2022)

Do/have you practised Aikido, _Simon_?


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## O'Malley (Oct 31, 2022)

Hope you have fun! Let us know how it went!

Also I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. I've been practicing different styles of aikido for six years, during which I've also conducted extensive research on the art's technical and historical aspects.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 31, 2022)

Oh great 🙏🏽 I assume it’ll all be too bewildering to formulate meaningful questions 😀


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## Oily Dragon (Oct 31, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I’ve finally decided to try Aikido after years of turning my nose up at because of the sight of people seemingly throwing _themselves_ around and, of course, because of Steven Seagulls 🦆
> 
> I watched an NHK Spiritual Explorers episode about it (not a very good one) and this prompted me do a search for a local dojo. After a couple of emails from the teacher asking about my motivations, health etc,he invited me along this coming Thursday. I’m looking forward to it.


Cooool.

Let us know when you learn the no touch Qi blasts.

Wait, wrong art...


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## Oily Dragon (Oct 31, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> Hope you have fun! Let us know how it went!
> 
> Also I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. I've been practicing different styles of aikido for six years, during which I've also conducted extensive research on the art's technical and historical aspects.


I've never formally studied Aikido (done Judo, jujutsu, catch) but I do watch a lot of technique videos to learn new things.

Like, staff training is a big part of my personal regimen, so I'll often consume staff training vids from all sorts of arts because I know what I'm doing generally, but occasionally find something new. Always found Aikido jo training neat (I prefer staff under 6" so bo, Jo etc).

What level in Aikido do you get to basics like this?


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## Gyakuto (Oct 31, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I've never formally studied Aikido (done Judo, jujutsu, catch) but I do watch a lot of technique videos to learn new things.
> 
> Like, staff training is a big part of my personal regimen, so I'll often consume staff training vids from all sorts of arts because I know what I'm doing generally, but occasionally find something new. Always found Aikido jo training neat (I prefer staff under 6" so bo, Jo etc).
> 
> What level in Aikido do you get to basics like this?


I did watch a ‘Nine Cut Boken [sic] Kata’ on the website of the dojo I’m going to attend. Swordsmanship (Iaido) is my main art and so I have to say the video was…’interesting’ in terms of cutting and body shifting. Of course, I don’t know the context of the video and I’ll have to be careful to keep my mouth tightly zipped!


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## Oily Dragon (Oct 31, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I did watch a ‘Nine Cut Boken [sic] Kata’ on the website of the dojo I’m going to attend. Swordsmanship (Iaido) is my main art and so I have to say the video was…’interesting’ in terms of cutting and body shifting. Of course, I don’t know the context of the video and I’ll have to be careful to keep my mouth tightly zipped!


I think we're on the same page.

I thought of that newer staff video, as I watched the end of that old video of Ueshiba, chopping wood over and over and over.  It's interesting to compare to some of the heavier duty staff videos out there in Asian MA.

There's a time for circles, and a time for straight lines, based on my *informal *study of Aikido.  It'd be cool to see what you think.

One of the best things I think Ueshiba did was break a bit from his contemporaries and focus on the peaceful side of jujutsu, if that makes sense.  If you go back and learn about his roots, it was anything but peaceful.

I can relate, I used my foundations in similar arts to kind of learn to chill the hell out.  I wish I could teach it.  But sometimes, just rolling forward feels like freedom.  And that's always worth learning.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 31, 2022)

When I was watching that NHK programme on Aikido, I liked the look of ‘rolling around’ and the rolling exercises they were doing! It just looked different enough to be fun and possibly helpful for the body.I _think_ the difficulty comes when claims are made about Aikido’s ‘effectiveness’ and that’s something I’m also looking to explore. Since it’s Japanese system, I’m hoping to feel more at home with it than I have been with the various Chinese systems I’ve tried in the past.


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## Oily Dragon (Oct 31, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> When I was watching that NHK programme on Aikido, I liked the look of ‘rolling around’ and the rolling exercises they were doing! It just looked different enough to be fun and possibly helpful for the body.I _think_ the difficulty comes when claims are made about Aikido’s ‘effectiveness’ and that’s something I’m also looking to explore. Since it’s Japanese system, I’m hoping to feel more at home with it than I have been with the various Chinese systems I’ve tried in the past.


So this is one of those "is it effective" vs "can I make it effective" moments for you.  I dig that. It's cool to able to pick up new arts with an already established BS detector, eh?

I don't really know of any big names in Aikido going around claiming effectiveness on a broad level nowadays.  I can think of a few arts that do but Aikido has always seemed to be the gentleman in the room, if that makes sense.

Not many "Aikido vs. Boxing" "Aikido vs Wrestling" tribes out there, right?  Even the Aikido guy who was on Joe Rogan show was pretty cool dude and honest.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 31, 2022)

‘Effectiveness’ is a relative term I suppose. I’m of the orientation that MA are generally not _that_ effective fighting arts compared to boxing and MMA because of the degree of cooperation required between attacker and defender during practise. In, say, boxing one aims to be an uncooperative, fully-resisting, aggressive opponent by default and fights over that basis It’s not very pretty really though.  Same with MMA…occasional flashed of ‘beauty’.In Karate there seems to be mutually accepted foundations over which one fights which give’s it it’s outward appearance and doubtless stunning looks…at times. In, say Wing Chun, these parameters are further tightened etc and in Aikido, as far as I can tell, there is maximum cooperation, very little resistance and no aggression at all. But that’s how the art works and it’s what lends it it’s beauty, grace and skill. It’s _lovely_.

However, if you pit a boxer with against a Wing Chun person, the freedom under which the boxer has learn her art puts her at a distinct advantage over the Wing Chunner who has been restricted due to the art’s parameters. Put a Karateka up against and Aikido exponent and I think the karateka will likely defeat the Aikidoka again because they are freer in what they do in their practise. 

Now it’s very possible that at the highest levels, this idea breaks down completely and the sheer experience and constant applications techniques spiritual training and thus fearlessness etc shatters this ‘constraints in practise hypothesis’. 

I’ve matured enough to not have an issue with people simply enjoying ‘waving their swords around’ for fun and internally play samurai in Iaido or doing flashy but impractical double-spinning-flipping-over-reverse roundhouse kicks in Karate classes.…I’ve forgotten what point I was trying to make…oh yes….if Aikido,is beautiful for the sake of being beautiful, then great! Let the meatheads argue about which is the ‘best’!


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 31, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I’ve finally decided to try Aikido after years of turning my nose up at because of the sight of people seemingly throwing _themselves_ around and, of course, because of Steven Seagulls 🦆
> 
> I watched an NHK Spiritual Explorers episode about it (not a very good one) and this prompted me do a search for a local dojo. After a couple of emails from the teacher asking about my motivations, health etc,he invited me along this coming Thursday. I’m looking forward to it.


I'm very interested in hearing what your experiences are.  I have never trained in Aikido, but our sensei has.  He has shown us some simple hand techniques that also happen to have analogues in our art, and we practice them.  Nothing fancy, mostly just releases from holds and grips.  Useful stuff for non-violent walk-aways when you don't want to punch the person in the face (although that works too).  I'm interested in both Aikido and Tai Chi, although neither are available in my area.  Maybe someday.  Enjoy!


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## Tez3 (Oct 31, 2022)

My instructor once said that Aikido is where you hold your opponent's hand and they break their own arm, he did teach us some and it certainly seems that way 😁


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## Gyakuto (Oct 31, 2022)

We have a true Tai Chi Chuan ‘master’ here in Devon according to my friends who drive 400 miles down from Yorkshire to visit me as an excuse train with her! She studied at University in Shanghai but teaches here on beaches, the seafront, in ruined abbey grounds and other atmospheric places. Now it‘s (she’s) very beautiful and I quite like to watch it while my friends participate, but it isn't…🤔…dynamic enough to make me want to put down my ice cream and get up of the grass on a sunny morning and take part. I have seen her doing some cool looking ‘Kung Fu’ in the car park of her hotel but she doesn’t teach it…yet.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 31, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> We have a true Tai Chi Chuan ‘master’ here in Devon according to my friends who drive 400 miles down from Yorkshire to visit me as an excuse train with her! She studied at University in Shanghai but teaches here on beaches, the seafront, in ruined abbey grounds and other atmospheric places. Now it‘s (she’s) very beautiful and I quite like to watch it while my friends participate, but it isn't…🤔…dynamic enough to make me want to put down my ice cream and get up of the grass on a sunny morning and take part. I have seen her doing some cool looking ‘Kung Fu’ in the car park of her hotel but she doesn’t teach it…yet.


I think Tai Chi might help me with flexibility and balance issues I've been experiencing as I age.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 31, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I think Tai Chi might help me with flexibility and balance issues I've been experiencing as I age.


Quite a few of her students are certainly on the older side 😀


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## Jared Traveler (Oct 31, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I’ve finally decided to try Aikido after years of turning my nose up at because of the sight of people seemingly throwing _themselves_ around and, of course, because of Steven Seagulls 🦆
> 
> I watched an NHK Spiritual Explorers episode about it (not a very good one) and this prompted me do a search for a local dojo. After a couple of emails from the teacher asking about my motivations, health etc,he invited me along this coming Thursday. I’m looking forward to it.


First, congratulations for doing the main thing you need to do to stay involved in martial arts long term. That is in my opinion, to keep finding new things and new ways to stay involved.

Second, what are you hoping to get out of the training?


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## Gyakuto (Oct 31, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> First, congratulations for doing the main thing you need to do to stay involved in martial arts long term. That is in my opinion, to keep finding new things and new ways to stay involved.


I do worry about ’polluting’ my Iaido with Aikido technique! When Aikidoka joined our Iai dojo they found it nigh impossible to keep their back foot pointing directly ahead (so the pelvic and thoracic girdles are square to allow for proper cutting) and to stop their small ‘chopping’ action with their bokuto/sword. I think it’s an unfounded worry at my stage! 🤞🏽



Jared Traveler said:


> Second, what are you hoping to get out of the training?


Learning something new to keep the neurones challenged, address my doubts about the art and to meet new, like-minded people (I took very early retirement and now I’m lonely!)


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## _Simon_ (Oct 31, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> Do/have you practised Aikido, _Simon_?


No I haven't, but one of my karate instructors infuses and teaches us aiki principles, completely changed how I practice and how I view practice.

I would say go in with an open mind, as sometimes we can compare what we learn way too much with what we've been taught. It's good to compare in a unifying sense and a way that augments our practice, but comparing the two from judgement doesn't allow for learning. I love seeing what new systems have to offer and it's refreshing all the different approaches... I think your Iaido will compliment things for sure, even if technically some things are different.

Have so much fun


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## Oily Dragon (Oct 31, 2022)




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## Gyakuto (Nov 1, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


>


I bought this after seeing Morgan with it.


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## _Simon_ (Nov 1, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I bought this after seeing Morgan with it.
> View attachment 29228


Ahhh... I must get that...

In my Bowen therapist's waiting room are books and he had that one there (he's a high level aikidoka), and I always read that before my session. Very nice book


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## Gyakuto (Nov 1, 2022)

_Simon_ said:


> Ahhh... I must get that...
> 
> In my Bowen therapist's waiting room are books and he had that one there (he's a high level aikidoka), and I always read that before my session. Very nice book


Oh, I’ve never read it…I just use it to look ‘windswept and interesting’ in order to get girls 😐😉

One of the Iaidoka, who briefly attended our dojo, was an experienced Aikidoka _and_ a noted clinical psychologist (or so he liked to tell us…often 🙄). He suggested that from a psychological perspective, Ueshiba Sensei was…what assessment did he make…🤔….’bat-****-crazy’ or words to that effect. I think ‘delusional‘ was one of the adjectives he used to describe him!


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## Oily Dragon (Nov 1, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> Oh, I’ve never read it…I just use it to look ‘windswept and interesting’ in order to get girls 😐😉
> 
> One of the Iaidoka, who briefly attended our dojo, was an experienced Aikidoka _and_ a noted clinical psychologist (or so he liked to tell us…often 🙄). He suggested that from a psychological perspective, Ueshiba Sensei was…what assessment did he make…🤔….’bat-****-crazy’ or words to that effect. I think ‘delusional‘ was one of the adjectives he used to describe him!


That's the hallmark of the highest level of Kung Fu mastery.  Total madness.


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## Gyakuto (Nov 1, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> That's the hallmark of the highest level of Kung Fu mastery.  Total madness.


Yes. I wonder if it’s because we fear questioning such people? We’re worried we’re missing something and just go along with the insanity?


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## O'Malley (Nov 1, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I've never formally studied Aikido (done Judo, jujutsu, catch) but I do watch a lot of technique videos to learn new things.
> 
> Like, staff training is a big part of my personal regimen, so I'll often consume staff training vids from all sorts of arts because I know what I'm doing generally, but occasionally find something new. Always found Aikido jo training neat (I prefer staff under 6" so bo, Jo etc).
> 
> What level in Aikido do you get to basics like this?


In Iwama aikido you learn the jo from day one. In other lineages it may vary but my first Aikikai dojo did weapons once a month.


Gyakuto said:


> I did watch a ‘Nine Cut Boken [sic] Kata’ on the website of the dojo I’m going to attend. Swordsmanship (Iaido) is my main art and so I have to say the video was…’interesting’ in terms of cutting and body shifting. Of course, I don’t know the context of the video and I’ll have to be careful to keep my mouth tightly zipped!


FWIW aikidoka often do things differently than what would make sense in a combative engagement. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes due to ignorance. For example, the Iwama line uses weapons as a conditioning method to strengthen the body and channel hip power into the hands. As another example, I wouldn't telegraph thrusts like the gentleman in Oily Dragon's video.


Oily Dragon said:


> I think we're on the same page.
> 
> I thought of that newer staff video, as I watched the end of that old video of Ueshiba, chopping wood over and over and over.  It's interesting to compare to some of the heavier duty staff videos out there in Asian MA.
> 
> ...


I'd agree with that... if we're talking about Morihei Ueshiba's son, Kisshomaru, who's really responsible for the whole peace thing. Morihei was never really a pacifist and technically almost all of what he did was already in daito ryu - bar one throw.


Gyakuto said:


> When I was watching that NHK programme on Aikido, I liked the look of ‘rolling around’ and the rolling exercises they were doing! It just looked different enough to be fun and possibly helpful for the body.I _think_ the difficulty comes when claims are made about Aikido’s ‘effectiveness’ and that’s something I’m also looking to explore. Since it’s Japanese system, I’m hoping to feel more at home with it than I have been with the various Chinese systems I’ve tried in the past.


Rolling around is super fun and makes you supple and able to take falls (which are perhaps the biggest source of injury in everyday life).


Gyakuto said:


> I do worry about ’polluting’ my Iaido with Aikido technique! When Aikidoka joined our Iai dojo they found it nigh impossible to keep their back foot pointing directly ahead (so the pelvic and thoracic girdles are square to allow for proper cutting) and to stop their small ‘chopping’ action with their bokuto/sword. I think it’s an unfounded worry at my stage! 🤞🏽
> 
> 
> Learning something new to keep the neurones challenged, address my doubts about the art and to meet new, like-minded people (I took very early retirement and now I’m lonely!)


Yeah I've had this when being exposed to koryu swordsmanship. My aikido habits were parasiting the moves. But people can learn different dances, so it should be possible to do both.


Oily Dragon said:


>


That's actually karate if I'm not mistaken!


Gyakuto said:


> Oh, I’ve never read it…I just use it to look ‘windswept and interesting’ in order to get girls 😐😉
> 
> One of the Iaidoka, who briefly attended our dojo, was an experienced Aikidoka _and_ a noted clinical psychologist (or so he liked to tell us…often 🙄). He suggested that from a psychological perspective, Ueshiba Sensei was…what assessment did he make…🤔….’bat-****-crazy’ or words to that effect. I think ‘delusional‘ was one of the adjectives he used to describe him!


I'd agree on calling him delusional - and his teaching methods were shitty - but he was also extremely talented, well-read and quite clever. He just liked to bury technical information under layers of mystic BS but it makes sense if you know what to look for.


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## Oily Dragon (Nov 1, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> I'd agree on calling him delusional - and his teaching methods were shitty - but he was also extremely talented, well-read and quite clever. He just liked to bury technical information under layers of mystic BS but it makes sense if you know what to look for.


It's funny, hard to tell where old staff technique comes from....Aikido, Karate, or the dreaded Bubushi (which might actually be the case, stick techniques are way older than Okinawa).

I like to refer to Ueshiba as a karate hippie.  Kind of like how my hippie friends who are really smart and fun, also try to get me to wear crystals and drink weird herbs.  

I consider myself an informed consumer in these matters.  Thanks for that post.


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## Gyakuto (Nov 1, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> and drink weird herbs.


I bet there isn’t _much_ arm twisting to encourage you 😉😄


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## Gyakuto (Nov 1, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> I'd agree with that... if we're talking about Morihei Ueshiba's son, Kisshomaru, who's really responsible for the whole peace thing. Morihei was never really a pacifist and technically almost all of what he did was already in daito ryu - bar one throw.


Have you heard of the concept of ‘Kesa no Hitotachi no Seishin’. It can be summarised by a line from it which says, ‘_Even the gravest of sinners should be shown the path of good men. If the worst occurs and they do not conform to them, without hesitation, apply kesa uchi and send them to Buddha_’ 😂 Perhaps this was Osensei’s philosophy.

`One of my friends graded and was awarded godan (I think) by Kisshomaru



O'Malley said:


> Rolling around is super fun and makes you supple and able to take falls (which are perhaps the biggest source of injury in everyday life).


I have to say, that is part of my attraction to it!


O'Malley said:


> Yeah I've had this when being exposed to koryu swordsmanship. My aikido habits were parasiting the moves. But people can learn different dances, so it should be possible to do both.


Ingrained habit just require one to be mindful of them.


O'Malley said:


> I'd agree on calling him delusional - and his teaching methods were shitty - but he was also extremely talented, well-read and quite clever. He just liked to bury technical information under layers of mystic BS but it makes sense if you know what to look for.


That burying is done by talented people, fearful of others usurping their supremacy!


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 1, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I’m of the orientation that MA are generally not _that_ effective fighting arts compared to boxing and MMA because of the degree of cooperation required between attacker and defender *during practise*.


"The degree of cooperation required between attacker and defender *during practise*" is used for training.

If you

- lie down on the ground, your training partner cannot train throwing art on you.
- run away from your opponent, your training partner cannot train striking art on you.

Some cooperation from your training partner is needed.


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## Oily Dragon (Nov 1, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I bet there isn’t _much_ arm twisting to encourage you 😉😄


Depends on the source.


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## Darren (Nov 1, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I’ve finally decided to try Aikido after years of turning my nose up at because of the sight of people seemingly throwing _themselves_ around and, of course, because of Steven Seagulls 🦆
> 
> I watched an NHK Spiritual Explorers episode about it (not a very good one) and this prompted me do a search for a local dojo. After a couple of emails from the teacher asking about my motivations, health etc,he invited me along this coming Thursday. I’m looking forward to it.


I was going to try Aikido once my self, got hurt my first class doing a roll on my right side believe since my minor cerebral palsy is in my right side(can do a roll on my left side) but did a roll on my right side off the mat a landed right on my right shoulder had to do PT for like three months totally shifted my right side a little!! That hurt!!!!!


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## Oily Dragon (Nov 2, 2022)

Darren said:


> I was going to try Aikido once my self, got hurt my first class doing a roll on my right side believe since my minor cerebral palsy is in my right side(can do a roll on my left side) but did a roll on my right side off the mat a landed right on my right shoulder had to do PT for like three months totally shifted my right side a little!! That hurt!!!!!


I've done that.  Jumping forward roll, landed right on the shoulder hard.  Crack.

Used to be the "I'll fall on anything" type.  I've wisened.


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## Darren (Nov 2, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I've done that.  Jumping forward roll, landed right on the shoulder hard.  Crack.
> 
> Used to be the "I'll fall on anything" type.  I've wisened.


I thought I was fine at first till I started to change then it was god please take me home man!!!! You taking about misery oh god!!!!!!!!!


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## O'Malley (Nov 2, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> It's funny, hard to tell where old staff technique comes from....Aikido, Karate, or the dreaded Bubushi (which might actually be the case, stick techniques are way older than Okinawa).
> 
> I like to refer to Ueshiba as a karate hippie.  Kind of like how my hippie friends who are really smart and fun, also try to get me to wear crystals and drink weird herbs.
> 
> I consider myself an informed consumer in these matters.  Thanks for that post.


I dunno whether a hippie would be involved in far-right terrorist attacks, protect and provide shelter to  criminals who perpetrated the worst kind of atrocities or teach at fascist ideological centers, among other "achievements".

I do suspect that Morihei Ueshiba would have hated being associated with karate. In his words, that is "chink" ****.


Gyakuto said:


> Have you heard of the concept of ‘Kesa no Hitotachi no Seishin’. It can be summarised by a line from it which says, ‘_Even the gravest of sinners should be shown the path of good men. If the worst occurs and they do not conform to them, without hesitation, apply kesa uchi and send them to Buddha_’ 😂 Perhaps this was Osensei’s philosophy.
> 
> `One of my friends graded and was awarded godan (I think) by Kisshomaru
> 
> ...


Oh he probably loved being worshipped. He trained very hard because he saw it as a means to ascend to godhood. And gods have followers.

I didn't know the quote but really he was not a pacifist. He was neck-deep involved with Japanese fascism and his idea of "peace" was "the world united as a great family... under the complete control of the Japanese Empire".


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## Gyakuto (Nov 2, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> I dunno whether a hippie would be involved in far-right terrorist attacks, protect and provide shelter to  criminals who perpetrated the worst kind of atrocities or teach at fascist ideological centers, among other "achievements".
> 
> I do suspect that Morihei Ueshiba would have hated being associated with karate. In his words, that is "chink" ****.
> 
> ...


Fascinating! Do you have any sources for these data? It might be fun to confront the instructor in tomorrow’s class! 😀 

The older generation of Budo _do_ tend to be ‘nationalistic’ and indeed certain arts have a ‘right-wing’ reputation in Japan. I wonder if this is similar to the ‘Artist and their Art’ thread? Can the attitudes and, indeed, actions of founders/senior members of arts be separated from _the_ art.


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## O'Malley (Nov 2, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> Fascinating! Do you have any sources for these data? It might be fun to confront the instructor in tomorrow’s class! 😀
> 
> The older generation of Budo _do_ tend to be ‘nationalistic’ and indeed certain arts have a ‘right-wing’ reputation in Japan. I wonder if this is similar to the ‘Artist and their Art’ thread? Can the attitudes and, indeed, actions of founders/senior members of arts be separated from _the_ art.


Look up the blog and Facebook page of "Aikido Sangenkai". Although he's too humble to put it that way, Chris Li is one of the best sources for aikido history. The history of aikido isn't well-known even by the art's own practitioners, so confronting your instructor on this may challenge his long-standing beliefs, just so you know.

I separate the art from the artist (also because a lot of what Ueshiba was doing he got from somewhere else) but when I bow before and after class, I know to whom and _to what extent_ I'm bowing.


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## Gyakuto (Nov 2, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> Look up the blog and Facebook page of "Aikido Sangenkai". Although he's too humble to put it that way, Chris Li is one of the best sources for aikido history. The history of aikido isn't well-known even by the art's own practitioners, so confronting your instructor on this may challenge his long-standing beliefs, just so you know.


Much as I like upsetting establim4nt apple carts, I was only kidding!


O'Malley said:


> I separate the art from the artist (also because a lot of what Ueshiba was doing he got from somewhere else) but when I bow before and after class, I know to whom and _to what extent_ I'm bowing.


Fascinating !


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## Oily Dragon (Nov 2, 2022)

I'll be the first to say I only know a little about Aikidos history.  I was under the impression that Ueshiba mellowed out over time from his earlier more violent lifestyle, to a more (if not pacifist) philosophical/spiritual).

Though I do get the context of where and how he lived is nothing like America's hippies.  Guess I can't use karate hippie anymore, damn I thought I was being clever.

So basically, he's Seagal's Glimmer Man.  A man of war, who chose to walk a peaceful path, and that path was paved with the blood of his enemies, as he quested to find his true paradise: Russia.


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## Gyakuto (Nov 3, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> So basically, he's Seagal's Glimmer Man.  A man of war, who chose to walk a peaceful path, and that path was paved with the blood of his enemies, as he quested to find his true paradise: Russia.


SeaGULL. He’s a big white bird unfairly notorious for stealing one’s chips and ice creams on the seafront. Seagull has stolen a few chips in his time 😉

I was buying some cologne the other day and found one I liked. It was called ‘Russian Leather’ and as a vegetarian, both those words put me off it 😂 Looking at my expression, I was quickly informed by the shop assistant, that the word ‘Russian’ was being replaced by ’Dark’ in the next batch. 😃😄😂🤣


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## Gyakuto (Nov 4, 2022)

First lesson last night. A great dojo with lovely teacher and students. They had a very special (and expensive) sprung, bouncy matted floor which made me feel like an Apollo astronaut, walking on the moon! 👨🏽‍🚀

The teaching was excellent and I soon worked out the principles in terms I could comprehend. There was much talk of ‘expanding Ki and ‘pushing energy upwards’ etc but it seemed to me to skilful manipulation of one’s opponent’s centre of gravity (CoG), edging it out of their base and encouraging a rotational torque to flip them over. Forces were applied at a tangent to the opponent to initiate a torquing force whilst simultaneously manipulating their CoG again causing them to flip away! It was lovely to watch and attempt. It seemed the teacher’s real skill was in the timing of application of torque/CoG perturbations to achieve whatever he wanted. Beautiful. It did remind me somewhat of the Wado Ryu Karate I practised (which incorporates Shinzo Yoshin  Ryu Ju Jitsu) and the take home message of ‘get out of the way’ was familiar although in Wado Ryu this was often achieved with a twist of the body rather than stepping in and to the side. Thus, I was a little better at the moves than was expected thanks to the brilliant Ohyo Gumite throws we practised in Wado Ryu so it felt somewhat familiar. 

The difference between the two arts was the Aikido didn’t work if one even slightly resisted. If you simply let go of the sleeve you were gripping the technique would abort on the spot. If one shuffled along rather than flip oneself over, you could easily remain on your feet to counter. I was told several times not to resist otherwise it would be a case of the strongest person winning “like in Judo”! Yes, there are joint opposition grips that are more likely to compel you to cooperate and throw yourself, but getting to the stage of applying them was a real contrivance requiring you to not let go as the lock was being applied. It seemed more like a beautiful dance, where each person knows what’s coming and how to move accordingly. I certainly saw degrees of freedom, where the receiver could decide which direction he was going to go and the attacker could manipulate that too and it was very skilful indeed. From what I saw (and have seen elsewhere) Aikido did not fulfil the criteria of an effective fighting system, i.e. it would not consistently perform against an uncooperative , fully-resisting, aggressive opponent. This is probably why you don’t see Aikido-based MMA fighters! But I don’t think this is what it’s about.  It is more akin to freestyle dancing perhaps where beauty of technique is the physical aim. It _is_ very lovely.

I must point out these are only my limited observations with all my biases accrued through years of experience in other combat sports and in no way a criticism of this clearly wonderful art with dedicated, hard training practitioners.

On a slightly different note, I was very aware that the risk of injury to me, as a beginner, through hitting the ground awkwardly or an overly keen wrist lock, was high. I hit the ground once and saw stars and my neck was painful for a few minutes.  Also, little allowance was given to a rotator cuff injury I have and at times I had to point-blank refuse to use the effected side with the teacher which he was _slightly_ reluctant to accept, but I am more than confident enough to stick to my refusal. Since I’m attempting a significant grading examination in my primary art in 7 months time, I feel I should probably wait until after that attempt before returning to Aikido and I will contact the dojo to say as much.


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## Darren (Nov 4, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> First lesson last night. A great dojo with lovely teacher and students. They had a very special (and expensive) sprung, bouncy matted floor which made me feel like an Apollo astronaut, walking on the moon! 👨🏽‍🚀
> 
> The teaching was excellent and I soon worked out the principles in terms I could comprehend. There was much talk of ‘expanding Ki and ‘pushing energy upwards’ etc but it seemed to me to skilful manipulation of one’s opponent’s centre of gravity (CoG), edging it out of their base and encouraging a rotational torque to flip them over. Forces were applied at a tangent to the opponent to initiate a torquing force whilst simultaneously manipulating their CoG again causing them to flip away! It was lovely to watch and attempt. It seemed the teacher’s real skill was in the timing of application of torque/CoG perturbations to achieve whatever he wanted. Beautiful. It did remind me somewhat of the Wado Ryu Karate I practised (which incorporates Shinzo Yoshin  Ryu Ju Jitsu) and the take home message of ‘get out of the way’ was familiar although in Wado Ryu this was often achieved with a twist of the body rather than stepping in and to the side. Thus, I was a little better at the moves than was expected thanks to the brilliant Ohyo Gumite throws we practised in Wado Ryu so it felt somewhat familiar.
> 
> ...


Sparred with a Aikido guy once, it was beautifully the way he slipped my punches of course he was also a black belt in kenpo so don’t know how much extensive knowledge he had in other arts but it must have been two truck loads the way he moved!! Just beautiful!!!!  Interesting what ya posted above enjoy the journey!!!!! And good luck!!!!!


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## Mider (Nov 11, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I’ve finally decided to try Aikido after years of turning my nose up at because of the sight of people seemingly throwing _themselves_ around and, of course, because of Steven Seagulls 🦆
> 
> I watched an NHK Spiritual Explorers episode about it (not a very good one) and this prompted me do a search for a local dojo. After a couple of emails from the teacher asking about my motivations, health etc,he invited me along this coming Thursday. I’m looking forward to it.


Good luck, hope you find a good dojo


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## Gyakuto (Nov 11, 2022)

I sent an email to the Aikido teacher saying “I’ll be back” (after my next significant grading examination) and he was appreciative that I hadn’t just disappeared.


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## Gyakuto (Nov 11, 2022)

I went to a nice and different veggie restaurant to my usual haunt in Totnes, for lunch yesterday. As I walked in the person behind the counter said, “Well hello, Gyakuto, fancy seeing you here!” I was very confused. Who is this person who knows me but I don’t recognise? I delivered a fishing reply, “ Oh hello….<pause>…when did I last see you?” he replied with a chuckle, “Oh I think you we’re looking up at me from the mat after I threw you!” He was the Aikido dojo teacher but I didn’t recognise him out of the dojo context!😀

We had a nice chat, I felt a bit awkward that he was serving me my food (😳), and he said he was keen to maybe have a joint Aikido/Iaido dojo in the future.

I’m pleased I’d done the polite thing and told him of my plans in an email the night before!


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