# Sinawalis--How Many is Enough?



## arnisador (Nov 28, 2005)

We had a discussion on FMATalk recently about sinawalis that was interesting. I thought I'd repost the first post from that thread here to try to get more opinions:



> As some of you know, I'm spending a year in Albuquerque, NM for work. I'm visiting some martial arts schools to find somepleace for my son and I to practice while we're here. (We also train on our own.) There is some FMA here, though not as much as I'd hoped to find!
> 
> We've been visiting a school where during the FMA class we do a _lot_ of sinawalis. Every class seems to have a different one. Sometimes they're so very close to one I know well that it's hard to break out of that old pattern. Other times they're very different. But at each class it seems there's at least one new one.
> 
> ...


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## arnisandyz (Dec 22, 2005)

For me its to learn different movements your hands can do from different positions. You mentioned 'shaking things up".  Thats a good way of looking at it. When we first learn a siniwali we paint by numbers and memorize a pattern. If you only know one or two patterns your body won't know what to do if it finds itself out of position or sequence. These are the people that when you break out of the pattern stop and say 'thats not how the pattern goes". Sometimes i'll "mess up' on purpose to see if my partner can pick it up, adapt, and keep the movement going. Each siniwali is, in itself a memorized pattern, but when used together they help break the patterns and develop a freeflow. its like a math formula. If I know A and I know B i can figure out C for myself.


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## kroh (Dec 22, 2005)

I would tend to think that each pattern should represent some different aspect of sinawali tactics. Just having more patterns that teach the same thing tends to be confusing on a basic level and tedious on an advanced level (There are some Kenpo systems that teach like this and I know a few pratcitioners who are in the closet about being bored out of their minds at the higher levels. They know and are forced to learn hundreds of techniques that teach ten principles.). There are some of the heaven and earth patterns that teach the basics of the movements and then those that interject new movements to change the nature of the movement. If the moves are the same why do you need more patterns? But that is just my take on it. 

I guess it's all good if you are getting off the couch...:idunno: 

Regards, 
Walt


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## ryangruhn (Dec 24, 2005)

Breaking patterns is one of the most important concepts in martial arts.  We recently started in on a new pattern that was rather easy and the new guys picked it up fairly quickly.  The elders on the other hand had a heck of a time doing it because it went against all the patterns that they were taught in the past.  If you ask me, any and all martial artists that are set in patterns are subject to weakness somewhere in their game.  As mentioned above, the ultimate goal should be free flow.

Gruhn


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## arnisador (Dec 24, 2005)

Heh, that's me--I know _too _much for my own good!


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## GuruJim1 (Dec 29, 2005)

I try to keep my Sinawalis simple. I teach my students the basic Heaven, Heaven & Earth, and Earth Six count drills. After they master those drills I tell my students to mix the drills up such as:

H=High
L=Low

Heaven Six: 
HHH-HHH

Heaven & Earth Six:
HLH-HLH

Earth Six:
LLL-LLL

Now, after they understand these drills then they make there own up for example:

LLH-HHL HHH-LLL LHL-LHH.... And so on. Now after they learn how to do this with the 64 possible drill that this can produce I have them add in blocks, for example:

Heaven Six:
Your right does a #1 Strike and goes right into an umbrella. Left hand does a #1 strike. Then your Right comes out of the umbrella and does a #1 Strike. Repeat on the other side.

This goes on using strike and blocks in the Sinawalis. The whole point is to get the student to free flow and make up their own patterns using all the drills that I taught them. I do use 8 count Sinawalis but anything higher than that I personal don't see the point. Teaching a lot of ways to do drill can be fun for the student, but don't make the student rely on you for more patterns. 

My teachers has always said, "I can teach you drills, forms, and other set patterns, but if you can develop your own from what I have taught you. That's when you really know how to use this system." I truly believe that and I teach by that method. Well, that was my two cent.


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## ryangruhn (Dec 29, 2005)

64 possibilities of meeting the force and LRL-RLR patters.  You can then take it even further and add passive strikes and different patterns of right and left hand.  After this you can then vary it by witik, loptik or radondo.  This can then be taken even further and be incorporated into sombrada patterns.  

Fun Stuff,


Gruhn


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## GuruJim1 (Dec 29, 2005)

ryangruhn said:
			
		

> 64 possibilities of meeting the force and LRL-RLR patters. You can then take it even further and add passive strikes and different patterns of right and left hand. After this you can then vary it by witik, loptik or radondo. This can then be taken even further and be incorporated into sombrada patterns.
> 
> Fun Stuff,
> 
> ...


 
Very true, I just used only a couple of examples. The drills that could come from all these drills are endless, and not just 64. The 64 possibilities are only from the basic six count drills (Force Meeting Force). 

The point is to teach the concept of these drills, so that the student is not relying on the instructor to spoon feed them these patterns. The student should be able to discover their own drills free from the instructor. 

Gruhn thanks for the input, as you know it's hard to sit down and write every possiblities that these drills can produce. This is why I love this stuff, a lot of fun for everyone. Except for the person getting hit though...LOL:jedi1:


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## kroh (Dec 29, 2005)

> The point is to teach the concept of these drills, so that the student is not relying on the instructor to spoon feed them these patterns. The student should be able to discover their own drills free from the instructor.


 
Sing it on the Mountain!
Regards, 
Walt


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## Mark Lynn (Dec 31, 2005)

I believe that some application needs to be taught as well.  Here are some examples.

You have the patterns that you practice with a partner for flow then you can do the following with them.
1) String patterns togethers, 
Heaven, Standard, Earth Six count
Heaven, double up on side strikes, and earth then double up on side strikes then back to Heaven again (makes a box shape).
Start with an open pattern and go into a closed pattern and back again.  Like adding a prefix or suffix to a drill.​2) Add in different types of movements, moving in circles, back and forth  etc.
3) Different heights one person standing and one on the floor, or one on a higher elevation and one on a lower elevation.
4) Have three man drills, have people in a triangle and one person do a set and then switch to the other person etc. etc.

Or use the parterns in a more of combative application
1)  Feed a technique and have the defensive person flow into a Sinawali response. 
2)  Add in different foot work. As person feeds, Zone to the outside and move past the person while striking them with the chosen Sinawali response.
3)  Have three men in a line one person engages the other one and they defend getting past them and engaing the person behind them.

I need to go
mark
​


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## ryangruhn (Dec 31, 2005)

at :59 seconds into this clip you can see how one would do an open pattern siniwali against sombrada.  I think it is one of the coolest patterns because it incorporates not only meeting the force but also following the force.  

http://www.titanfitness.com/promos/kali.wmv


Gruhn


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## Lobo (Jan 17, 2006)

Well, I'm in no position to even give advice, but from what I've researched, I believe, as a beginner, that Sinawalis are very useful. They help you lose hesitation, and amplify confidence, thus helping you to attack more naturally (which is kinda scary if you ask me. I mean, think about it, eventually, down the road killing someone would be completely natural. Well, at least thats how it was with my friend learning Krav Maga. He's trained to kill if neccessary.). From what I've seen, the flow helps catch the opponent off guard, similar to capoeira. I like FMA's, their elegant, useful, and effective. A perfect art for me.


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## kroh (Jan 18, 2006)

> He's trained to kill if neccessary



That's better than me...I am only trained to kill when hungry!

Regards, 
Walt


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