# Sunday Liquor Sales



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

An article from my paper the other day.  This discussion was brought up a while ago, in the paper, seems to have been put on the back burner, but has once again surfaced for debate.  Thought it'd be interesting to hear the thoughts/opinions of members here. 



> State-line package store owners and their state representatives are again pushing for Sunday liquor sales and, once again, store owners and legislators in the state's interior are resisting the proposed change, saying that many stores can't afford to open on a seventh day every week.
> 
> The perennial issue, however, has a new twist this year: Supporters say the state could use a shot of extra tax revenue in a time of looming, massive deficits.
> 
> ...


 
More


----------



## terryl965 (Feb 10, 2009)

I say lets go back to the Blue Law, when everything was closed on Sunday and let people have some rest.


----------



## Drac (Feb 10, 2009)

Can't afford it??...The amount of people that I see attempting to purchase liquore at a local outlet on a Sunday says different..The owner will sometimes forget to turn off his OPEN sign and people will from as early as 9AM attempt to enter his store..


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

Now, either way, this really doesn't effect me.  I really don't drink, and I would not call the occassional drink at a holiday or function from time to time, even anything close to a social drink.  

I have to wonder just how much extra money this would bring into the state, if stores were open on Sunday.  A while ago, the law passed to allow stores to stay open until 9pm, however, its an option, and there are some stores that choose to close at 8pm.  

As the article states, the majority of stores in the area are 'mom and pop' type settings, so unless they hired the extra help, I could see why some of them would want to have at least one day off.  

For a short time, myself, as well as my father and grandfather, worked part time at a small, family owned store.  This store was run by a long time friend of my family, and we offered to help from time to time.  I usually worked for a few hours on Saturday.  Now, per the state law, you have to be out by closing time.  Doesn't matter if you've managed to make it to the store by closing time, you have to be out.  So if the store closes at 8, you need to physically be out by that time.  I was amazed at the number of last minute arrivals, some arriving a bit too late, only to try to open the door and then get upset because they could not get in.  Hmm..well, I find it hard to believe that they didn't have time to get there by closing or have someone else make the pickup.  Additionally, regardless of which direction they were coming from, there were other stores that they would have passed by, to reach ours.  So, whos to blame for that one? LOL.  

Couldn't people make their purchase and get enough on Sat. to avoid having to make another run on Sunday?  

Like I said, either way, it will not effect me.  I just feel bad for the store owners that won't get time off, or as much time as they would like.


----------



## Drac (Feb 10, 2009)

MJS said:


> Couldn't people make their purchase and get enough on Sat. to avoid having to make another run on Sunday?


 
One of our side jobs on Fri and Sat is the local liquore store..The same people that I see there on Friday buy large amounts seem to return on Sat to buy more..


----------



## SFC JeffJ (Feb 10, 2009)

There are a lot of "blue" laws still on the books.  My state is arguing over the same thing in the article.  

Get 'em all out of the way.  It'll make our state government feel like they are doing something.


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

Drac said:


> One of our side jobs on Fri and Sat is the local liquore store..The same people that I see there on Friday buy large amounts seem to return on Sat to buy more..


 
Oh, I know what you mean.  That, IMO, is an addiction.


----------



## Drac (Feb 10, 2009)

MJS said:


> Oh, I know what you mean. That, IMO, is an addiction.


 
These folks come in and cash their temp work agency checks and then proceed to spend the bulk of it on beer, wine, hard liquore, cigarettes and lottery...They are back on Sat to repeat the process...


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 10, 2009)

Okay I used to do some shopping on Sunday morning either when I was not going to church or just after church.  I must say I was always pretty perturbed when I could not buy a bottle of wine, etc. along with my groceries.  I think the laws need to go away.  Plus yes indeed it will help the businesses!


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

Drac said:


> These folks come in and cash their temp work agency checks and then proceed to spend the bulk of it on beer, wine, hard liquore, cigarettes and lottery...They are back on Sat to repeat the process...


 
*shakes head*  Its nice to see that these folks are spending their cash on something productive.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 10, 2009)

Drac said:


> Can't afford it??...The amount of people that I see attempting to purchase liquore at a local outlet on a Sunday says different..The owner will sometimes forget to turn off his OPEN sign and people will from as early as 9AM attempt to enter his store..



No doubt about it as I have seen this in various locals as well!


----------



## Cryozombie (Feb 10, 2009)

Wow somthing not Insane about Illinois.  You can buy Alcohol here on sundays as long as its after 12 noon.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 10, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> Wow somthing not Insane about Illinois.  You can buy Alcohol here on sundays as long as its after 12 noon.



actually Cryo that is the way it is in Michigan as well.  Personally I think that law should be repealed.  Not that I want to drink Sunday morning but that it is an antiquated law.


----------



## Grenadier (Feb 10, 2009)

In my state (Alabama), the state-controlled liquor stores (ABC stores) close at 700 PM, from Mon - Sat.  Having to go from the lab to the dojo with very little pause every day, leaves little time to stop by to snag a bottle of whisky.  

I'd actually like it if they would open things up on Sunday, but since I'm in the Deep South, that isn't going to happen.   

So, it's my responsibility to get what I want on a Saturday.  If I don't take the initiative, I have two choices:

1) Buy from the package store, where my bottle of George Dickel #12 whisky is going to cost me an additional 5-6 bucks.  I really dislike the local package store, since the owner there is rather uncouth.  

or

2) Buy beer, and enjoy that instead.


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Okay I used to do some shopping on Sunday morning either when I was not going to church or just after church. I must say I was always pretty perturbed when I could not buy a bottle of wine, etc. along with my groceries. I think the laws need to go away. Plus yes indeed it will help the businesses!


 
Most grocery stores in my area sell beer.  Perhaps instead of forcing a liquor store to open on Sunday, grocery stores, in addition to the beer, could add a few other things, such as wine.  Any hard liquor would still need to be purchased at a liquor store.

Another option could be short hours on Sunday.  Example:  On Saturdays, banks are open for a few hours only.  Perhaps liquor stores could do the same thing.  It would allow people to make a purchase as well as give the owners of the stores a good portion of the day to do what they want.


----------



## Carol (Feb 10, 2009)

Hmmm...this doesn't pass the sniff test.

I can understand why Sunday would not be a profitable day for Liquor store owners.  While I have never been in the business, I can guess that Sunday may not be a big-selling day for liquor.  I don't drink very often, but Massachusetts recently went through some local changes permitting liquor sales on Sunday.  The liquor store that was near my old house was open on Sunday, but never looked extremely busy (at least, not like they were on Saturdays).

Most liquor store workers are non-exempt and therefore, paid by the hour.  Being open on Sunday would require non-exempt workers to be paid at time-and-a-half.

CT is one of a few states that has a "day of rest" law, meaning a law that mandates one day of rest in seven for all workers, with very few exceptions.  It is possible to schedule a worker for six days a week, but not seven days a week.  Being open on Sunday may mean staffing issues.

So...higher labor costs, more complicated labor logistics, lower sales, I can see why _some _liquor stores cannot afford to be open on Sundays.   There are some restaurants near me that are closed on one particular day of the week, for similar reasons.

What I find to be odd is the way this is being handled in the legislature.   

If the state is changed to _permit _alcohol to be sold seven days a week, there is nothing in CT law (that I know of) to _mandate _that liquor be open seven days a week.  A store that does not find it profitable to be open on Sunday can simply not open on Sunday.

Makes me wonder what else is going on behind the scenes...


----------



## Drac (Feb 10, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> Wow somthing not Insane about Illinois. You can buy Alcohol here on sundays as long as its after 12 noon.


 
That's how it should be.....What's really funny is the owner will give the customer plastic cups and they will sit in their cars drinking..Then they ***** when I get them for DUI...


----------



## SFC JeffJ (Feb 10, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Hmmm...this doesn't pass the sniff test.
> 
> I can understand why Sunday would not be a profitable day for Liquor store owners.  While I have never been in the business, I can guess that Sunday may not be a big-selling day for liquor.  I don't drink very often, but Massachusetts recently went through some local changes permitting liquor sales on Sunday.  The liquor store that was near my old house was open on Sunday, but never looked extremely busy (at least, not like they were on Saturdays).
> 
> ...


The big thing about it is the chemists and grocery stores that sell liquor want to be able to do it seven days a week.  That would make the liquor stores keep the same hours to be competitive.


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Hmmm...this doesn't pass the sniff test.
> 
> I can understand why Sunday would not be a profitable day for Liquor store owners. While I have never been in the business, I can guess that Sunday may not be a big-selling day for liquor. I don't drink very often, but Massachusetts recently went through some local changes permitting liquor sales on Sunday. The liquor store that was near my old house was open on Sunday, but never looked extremely busy (at least, not like they were on Saturdays).
> 
> ...


 
Good points Carol.   Of course, if we think about it, even businesses that are open on Sundays, have short hours.  There is obviously a reason for this.  Also, I'm sure there're days of the week where sales vary.  Ex:  Monday may not be a big selling day at liquor stores, but towards the end of the week, such as Thur. thru Sat....those are probably higher selling days.  I have my doubts that Sunday would be a really profitable day.  I mean, if the law were to pass, would it be worth the time and money spent if you're only making a small amount?

I say either keep it the way it is, with no sales on Sunday, and give the store owners a rest or open for 4hrs.  If someone can't either make the purchase themselves or have someone else make it for them, I don't know what to tell ya.


----------



## Kreth (Feb 10, 2009)

The so-called "blue laws" are a holdover from the temperance movement. There's no reason for them to be on the books.


----------



## CoryKS (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm not a business owner and not in the liquor industry, so I don't understand why opening on Sunday would be less profitable than opening on, say, Tuesday. At least on Sunday people are (mostly) off work and there are sporting events to watch. If you can't afford to open one extra day, why not shut down on Monday or something?


----------



## CanuckMA (Feb 10, 2009)

Because the theory is that people have a finite amount of money to spend. Opening longer hours only spreads out that spending. If you are used to buying your beer on Saturday, will the store being open on Sunday make you buy more or just give you the option of another dsy to spend the same beer money?


----------



## FearlessFreep (Feb 10, 2009)

CanuckMA said:


> Because the theory is that people have a finite amount of money to spend. Opening longer hours only spreads out that spending. If you are used to buying your beer on Saturday, will the store being open on Sunday make you buy more or just give you the option of another dsy to spend the same beer money?



That's what I do.  If I know I want a bottle of wine with my wife for the weekend or something, I pick it up Saturday afternoon because I know they will be closed on Sunday (we often have some on Sunday evening).  Now that the sell liquor here on Sunday, it doesn't mean I spend more, just means I can change my timing.


----------



## Carol (Feb 10, 2009)

FearlessFreep said:


> That's what I do.  If I know I want a bottle of wine with my wife for the weekend or something, I pick it up Saturday afternoon because I know they will be closed on Sunday (we often have some on Sunday evening).  Now that the sell liquor here on Sunday, it doesn't mean I spend more, just means I can change my timing.



The Wall Street Journal had a couple of articles on the U.S. alcoholic beverage market when the InBev-Budweiser deal was announced.  Basically, the liquor industry knows that alcoholic beverage sales are flat, because most people's drinking habits are essentially flat.


----------



## CoryKS (Feb 10, 2009)

CanuckMA said:


> Because the theory is that people have a finite amount of money to spend. Opening longer hours only spreads out that spending. If you are used to buying your beer on Saturday, will the store being open on Sunday make you buy more or just give you the option of another dsy to spend the same beer money?


 
Then why not open one day a week?  

The thing is, for most people Sunday is a full day off with plenty of options to fill it in with.  So if, for example, my friend decides to have an impromptu get-together to watch a game, I'm SOL if I want to stop on the way to pick up some suds.  

At the least, let the grocery stores sell on Sunday; they're going to be open anyway.


----------



## Carol (Feb 10, 2009)

Can grocery stores sell liquor in CT? 

MA is a real oddball state...a grocery store or convenience store can get a liquor license, but if the store is part of a chain, only 3 locations in the entire state can sell liquor.


----------



## Kreth (Feb 10, 2009)

In NY grocery stores can only sell beer, although Governor David "how the hell did that happen?" Paterson is pushing for grocery and convenience stores to be able to sell wine. You can't buy alcohol anywhere before noon on a Sunday. As Cory pointed out, it's kind of inconvenient if you're looking to snag some brews for a last minute football party or golf game.


----------



## arnisador (Feb 10, 2009)

In Indiana the independent liquor stores oppose this idea because they figure that they won't sell any more because the people who want to buy from them already do. They figure being open one more day is a cost to them but not to the Wal-Marts etc. who will really reap the benefits from this.


----------



## Gordon Nore (Feb 10, 2009)

Interesting thread.

Sunday shopping -- across the board -- was prohibited in Ontario for many a year under what was called "The Lord's Day Act." Convenience stores were open. Many restaurants were closed. Our Provincially supervised beer and liquor stores were shuttered.

I think it was in the late eighties or early nineties that the Liquor Control Board of Ontario (owned and operated by the Province) and Brewers' Retail (owned by the brewers, licensed by the Province) opened their doors on Sundays. I can even remember a time when you couldn't order a drink in a restaurant on Sunday, unless you ordered food as well. "Tavern Licenses," which allow establishments to serve liquor without having to serve food or maintain a particular ratio of the two are rare. Most establishements are licensed as "restaurants" and have to make some percentage of sales in food.

While some of our past laws were relics of the strong temperance movement in parts of Canada, I do like some of the government controls. The Beer Store and The Liquor Store and spotlessly clean, well-staffed, and very secure. They've been designed to discourage a lot of problems. The large interiors are well-lit and easily viewed from the street. The entrances and windows are unobstructed. From a safety point of view, I think selling beer in our privately owned corner stores -- as many here have called for -- would be a terrible mistake. I can just picture operators of these tiny cramped stores getting gunned down.

Also, the liquor store staff get a union wage and benefits, and they don't goof around with selling liquor to minors because there's a lot for them to lose. As for operating hours, it's now a seven day a week operation. Some stores are open til midnight. I have no idea what hour they open.

Years ago, I think the city of Edmonton tried opening its liquor stores later in the morning in an ill-advised effort to curb the drinking of long-term street alcoholics. It backfired. When the fellas had a morning Jones, they went to the convenience store and purchased or stole alcohol substitutes, like after shave or vanilla extract.

There are limits to how much the state (or Province) can curb the appetites of its citizens.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 10, 2009)

In Michigan it is no alcohol at all until noon on Sunday.

Kreth is right in that these are hold over laws with no relevance today.


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Feb 10, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> In my state (Alabama), the state-controlled liquor stores (ABC stores) close at 700 PM, from Mon - Sat. Having to go from the lab to the dojo with very little pause every day, leaves little time to stop by to snag a bottle of whisky.
> 
> I'd actually like it if they would open things up on Sunday, but since I'm in the Deep South, that isn't going to happen.
> 
> ...


 
I learned in the service not to come between a Southern boy and his whiskey. Hell, or to be around them when they're drinking it. Otherwise, I gotta be one of the folks to carry them back to base, change them out of their urinated clothes, wipe the puke offa their face, and tuck them in.


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Can grocery stores sell liquor in CT?
> 
> MA is a real oddball state...a grocery store or convenience store can get a liquor license, but if the store is part of a chain, only 3 locations in the entire state can sell liquor.


 
Grocery stores here primarily sell beer.  You will find some drink mix stuff as well, but on Sunday, nothing is sold.  If you were looking for any hard liquor, that will only be found in a liquor store.


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> I'm not a business owner and not in the liquor industry, so I don't understand why opening on Sunday would be less profitable than opening on, say, Tuesday. At least on Sunday people are (mostly) off work and there are sporting events to watch. If you can't afford to open one extra day, why not shut down on Monday or something?


 
Monday sales would typically be a bit lower than say a Fri or Sat.  Why?  Don't know for sure, but I would wager a guess, that you'd typically see functions or parties taking place on weekends.  Someone who works Mon-Fri. I would think probably wouldn't get plastered on Mon and have to worry about going to work on Tue., vs. a weekend.  

Its the same during holidays.  Dec. was typically a busy time, yet as it draws closer to Christmas, you'd be surprised as to how much was sold. 

Sunday, IMO, seems to be the quiet, family day.  Many stores, aside from ones that sell alcohol, close early.


----------



## CanuckMA (Feb 10, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> Then why not open one day a week?


 
Because you have to balance convience against costs. With stores open 6 days a week, the 7th day is just extra convinience. The incremental costs may not be worth it.



> The thing is, for most people Sunday is a full day off with plenty of options to fill it in with. So if, for example, my friend decides to have an impromptu get-together to watch a game, I'm SOL if I want to stop on the way to pick up some suds.


 
It calls for better planning...



> At the least, let the grocery stores sell on Sunday; they're going to be open anyway.


 
That is fair. You trade selection for convenience.


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> Then why not open one day a week?
> 
> The thing is, for most people Sunday is a full day off with plenty of options to fill it in with. So if, for example, my friend decides to have an impromptu get-together to watch a game, I'm SOL if I want to stop on the way to pick up some suds.


 
Yes, pretty much, you will be out of luck.  Of course, folks that live in a state that boarders one that sells, could just cross the line.  Enfield, CT is not that far from MA, so, I'd imagine people would just cross over, buy, and head back home.  IIRC, the article said something about that.



> At the least, let the grocery stores sell on Sunday; they're going to be open anyway.


 
Yes, that was my suggestion as well.  That, or possibly have a few hours on Sunday.  Typically banks are open for 3hrs on Sat.  So on a Sunday, liquor stores could open for a few hours.


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

CanuckMA said:


> Because you have to balance convience against costs. With stores open 6 days a week, the 7th day is just extra convinience. The incremental costs may not be worth it.


 
Exactly.  If I owned a store, I would certainly weigh the cost of staying open, paying someone vs. how much income I generated that day.





> It calls for better planning...


 
Exactly!  Like I said, I was always amazed at the number of people that would come peeling into the parking lot, race to the door, only to find it locked....at 1 or 2 min to 8.  Of course, those that did make it in, amazed me as well, because they still had no idea what they were looking for.  I mean really, if you were making a pick up for someone and couldn't get yourself to the store earlier, at least know what you want, instead of pulling out your cell and asking, while the clock is ticking.


----------



## tellner (Feb 10, 2009)

Sunday closure laws are no different than laws requiring businesses to close five times a day for Muslim prayers. They are the direct imposition of someone's religious beliefs on another unwilling person. The sooner these remnants of theocracy are kicked over and buried the better.


----------



## CoryKS (Feb 10, 2009)

MJS said:


> Yes, pretty much, you will be out of luck. Of course, folks that live in a state that boarders one that sells, could just cross the line. Enfield, CT is not that far from MA, so, I'd imagine people would just cross over, buy, and head back home. IIRC, the article said something about that.


 
That's the situation here too.  Cities on the Kansas side of the KS/MO border have recently begun allowing Sunday sales, but before that it was a trip to Missouri if you had to make a purchase.  Most of Kansas still doesn't allow it, but over here in the KC area I think they wanted a piece of the sales that were going to MO.

The argument that stores can't afford to open another day is pointless.  Allow them to do it and let the owners make their own choice.  It may be that there isn't enough custom to make it worth everyone's while, but if some choose to stay closed it may be economically feasible for the rest.


----------



## MJS (Feb 10, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> That's the situation here too. Cities on the Kansas side of the KS/MO border have recently begun allowing Sunday sales, but before that it was a trip to Missouri if you had to make a purchase. Most of Kansas still doesn't allow it, but over here in the KC area I think they wanted a piece of the sales that were going to MO.


 
I think that practice will continue until a decision is made at some point.  Of course, I'm sure the stores in MA are loving it though.  "Sure CT., just go right on keeping your stores closed on Sunday.  We'll gladly accept your residents over here."  



> The argument that stores can't afford to open another day is pointless. Allow them to do it and let the owners make their own choice. It may be that there isn't enough custom to make it worth everyone's while, but if some choose to stay closed it may be economically feasible for the rest.


 
That is what happened with the 9pm closing time.  It was passed that liquor stores could remain open until 9, but it was optional.


----------



## Carol (Feb 10, 2009)

tellner said:


> Sunday closure laws are no different than laws requiring businesses to close five times a day for Muslim prayers. They are the direct imposition of someone's religious beliefs on another unwilling person. The sooner these remnants of theocracy are kicked over and buried the better.




The same could be said for the FLSA requirement of time-and-a-half wages for working on Sunday, or the states that have labor laws that mandate one day of rest in seven.  Yet I don't here atheist groups, even the extreme oddballs, wanting to do away with either of those government mandates.

The issues have less to do with religion and more to do with the area culture.  Personally I think they are outdated as well...but I also respect the fact that CT is not my state.   Plus their state troopers can be mean.  Especially to out-of-state drivers.  That like to occasionally exceed the speed limit.  :rofl:


----------



## Gordon Nore (Feb 10, 2009)

tellner said:


> Sunday closure laws are no different than laws requiring businesses to close five times a day for Muslim prayers. They are the direct imposition of someone's religious beliefs on another unwilling person. The sooner these remnants of theocracy are kicked over and buried the better.


 
Tel,

Toronto was, until the 1960s, run pretty much by the Orange Lodge. Timothy Eaton, who founded a retailing empire, refused to sell tobacco in his department stores, and shuttered his store windows on Sundays, lest people stray downtown window shop instead of going to church. The city sidewalks were rolled up six o'clock.

We had a Provincial law at one point that prohibited selling or serving alcohol on election day until after the polls closed. A long, long time ago, the city was known as, Toronto the Good.


----------



## Ramirez (Feb 10, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> Tel,
> 
> Toronto was, until the 1960s, run pretty much by the Orange Lodge. Timothy Eaton, who founded a retailing empire, refused to sell tobacco in his department stores, and shuttered his store windows on Sundays, lest people stray downtown window shop instead of going to church. The city sidewalks were rolled up six o'clock.
> 
> We had a Provincial law at one point that prohibited selling or serving alcohol on election day until after the polls closed. A long, long time ago, the city was known as, Toronto the Good.




I remember how much of a nightmare it was trying to get all your shopping done on Saturday,  I wonder what the observant Jews did.


Remember the old LCBOs Gordon?  You would fill out a slip of paper, take to a guy behind a wicket, which pretty much resembled the wicket you see in films where the convict hands over his worldly goods,  then the guy in back would bring back in a brown paper bag while looking at you with disdain.

  I remember my father drinking Black Tower and Blue Nun back in the 70s and commenting on what excellent wine it was....I wouldn't use that ***** to clean my floors.


----------



## Drac (Feb 10, 2009)

Ramirez said:


> I remember my father drinking Black Tower and Blue Nun back in the 70s and commenting on what excellent wine it was....I wouldn't use that ***** to clean my floors.


 
I remember drinking *Boones Farm Apple wine..*


----------



## CoryKS (Feb 10, 2009)

I remember vomiting Boones Farm Apple wine.  Good lord, that stuff was awful.


----------



## Drac (Feb 10, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> I remember vomiting Boones Farm Apple wine. Good lord, that stuff was awful.


 
Yeah me too....Drank so much of it that for years if I bit into a tart apple that first taste would recall memories of sleeping in the cool embrace of the porcelin godess...


----------



## terryl965 (Feb 10, 2009)

See I do not understand the importance of buying hard liquor on Sunday, any real drunk has enough on hand for the entire weekend.artyon:artyon:


----------



## SFC JeffJ (Feb 10, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> See I do not understand the importance of buying hard liquor on Sunday, any real drunk has enough on hand for the entire weekend.artyon:artyon:


Simple enough reason is it's our right to buy liquor on Sunday.


----------



## terryl965 (Feb 10, 2009)

SFC JeffJ said:


> Simple enough reason is it's our right to buy liquor on Sunday.


 
I agree with you but my point is the same when I was a drunk I always made sure I had enough for the whole weekend.


----------



## CanuckMA (Feb 10, 2009)

MJS said:


> Exactly. If I owned a store, I would certainly weigh the cost of staying open, paying someone vs. how much income I generated that day.


 
The problem is that after a while, you will feel compelled to open anyway. Consumers are a fickle bunch. Even a loyal customer, if wanting to buy something on Sunday, may wander into the competition and decide to stay. You have not only lost That Sunday's business, but any future business as well.

Plus if you're in a mall, you don't have a choice of opening hours.







Ramirez said:


> I remember how much of a nightmare it was trying to get all your shopping done on Saturday, I wonder what the observant Jews did.


 
We shopped during the week. And back in the day, it was not unusual for stores to close at 6pm Mon-Wed, open till 9pm Thu-Fri, and close at 5pm on Sat. If the woman was not at home, she had to shop on Thu night.


----------



## Ramirez (Feb 10, 2009)

CanuckMA said:


> We shopped during the week. And back in the day, it was not unusual for stores to close at 6pm Mon-Wed, open till 9pm Thu-Fri, and close at 5pm on Sat. If the woman was not at home, she had to shop on Thu night.



  That was a bit of a rhetorical question, I was trying to point out the unfairness of legislating Sunday as a day of rest for non-Christians,...thanks for pointing that out though, stores are open until 10:00 pm or even 24 hours now,  I didn't even think about the store hours back then.


----------



## Carol (Feb 10, 2009)

Ramirez said:


> That was a bit of a rhetorical question, I was trying to point out the unfairness of legislating Sunday as a day of rest for non-Christians,...thanks for pointing that out though, stores are open until 10:00 pm or even 24 hours now,  I didn't even think about the store hours back then.



Just curious Ramirez, since I brought this up with Tellner.  Would you also support doing away with other laws regarding work on Sunday?  

For example, in the U.S. if a non-exempt worker (which typically means a worker that is paid by the hour) has to work on a Sunday, then that worker must be paid at time-and-a-half for all hours worked. 

I don't believe Ontario has the same law, but Ontario gives workers a right that the U.S. does not - the right to refuse work on Sunday.

I'm just curious.  Not trying to prove a point or put you on the spot.  For the record, I'm also one that thinks the blue laws are a bit ridiculous.


----------



## Ramirez (Feb 11, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Just curious Ramirez, since I brought this up with Tellner.  Would you also support doing away with other laws regarding work on Sunday?
> 
> For example, in the U.S. if a non-exempt worker (which typically means a worker that is paid by the hour) has to work on a Sunday, then that worker must be paid at time-and-a-half for all hours worked.
> 
> ...



You mean refusing to work on Sunday for religious reasons?  Well I can't say it is unfair for Sundays to be enforced as a day of rest for non-Christians then force Christians to work on Sunday if it is against their religion.

I have no problem with the time and a half rule either although I would extend it to any observant Jews/Seventh Day Adventists etc. that is forced to work on a Saturday.

BTW:  I think Ontario allows for right to refuse work for any religious day, i.e. a Jewish person can refuse to work on Saturday.


----------



## CanuckMA (Feb 11, 2009)

Ramirez said:


> You mean refusing to work on Sunday for religious reasons? Well I can't say it is unfair for Sundays to be enforced as a day of rest for non-Christians then force Christians to work on Sunday if it is against their religion.
> 
> I have no problem with the time and a half rule either although I would extend it to any observant Jews/Seventh Day Adventists etc. that is forced to work on a Saturday.
> 
> BTW: I think Ontario allows for right to refuse work for any religious day, i.e. a Jewish person can refuse to work on Saturday.


 
You can refuse work for religious reason on any day. I'm not sure how that would be enforced for Xtian as there is no religious obligation to not work on Sunday, though I would suppose you must accomodate for time to go to church.


Overtime pay only comes into play after a certain number of hours in a week or on a statutory holiday, normal overtime is 1.5. Stat holiday is 2.5 (time + 1.5 bonus)

I work for a retail company. We have some stores that are in malls opened on stat holidays so we must open them. We never make money on those days.


----------

