# Women are stronger sex in Kenpo



## Hefeweizen (Jun 17, 2003)

I asked about why men and women wear the belt knot on the left and right, respectively.    I was told that traditionally in Kenpo the left side is the weaker side, and men are the weaker sex which is why men wear the knot on the left.   

Is this correct?
(about the reason for the belt knot, not whether men are in fact weaker or not)


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## Ender (Jun 17, 2003)

Some of it has to do with Mormonism.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jun 17, 2003)

I've heard that Ed Parker started this not as a traditional practice, but as a link to the Mormon religion.

It was originally stated that the belt placement was the traditional Chinese practice.  A simple check of traditional CMA practitioners shows this not to be the case.  In every example I've been able to find, members of both sexes wear the knot on the same side.  

In a phone conversation, Al Tracy told me that the practice came from the Mormons.  He said that in the early days of Kenpo, everyone wore their belts knotted in the middle, no matter what the occasion.  He said that Ed Parker wished to introduce elements of the Mormon faith into American Kenpo so that when practitioners of Kenpo encountered them in the religion, they would seem familiar.  

Mr. Tracy was there in the early days, and he himself is a Mormon (as were Ed Parker and William K.S. Chow).  I figure if anyone besides Ed Parker would know, he would.

I also figure this will set off a heated debate.  That's why I state again- it's just what I heard.

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh


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## Brother John (Jun 17, 2003)

OK...
so what does the belt knott's position have to do with the LDS church???





Your Bro.
John


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## XtremeJ_AKKI (Jun 18, 2003)

From my understanding, it was simply a matter of visual distinction between mail and female students, since a lot of guys in the 60's liked to wear their hair long. 

 Also ( not trying to flame a bug up here or anything ), but a couple of the Tracy's were notorious for using the old ' Parker based his art on Mormonsim ' line to detract from his accomplishments for years.


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## kenpo3631 (Jun 18, 2003)

Try this...

In ancient china, males and females both wore their hair long, usually in a braided pony tail. To tell them apart females wore their sashes to the right and males to the left.

Neat theory isn't it? Let's see where this takes us...:asian:


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## Hefeweizen (Jun 18, 2003)

That's what I heard about the belt on left and right - from ancient china when males and females both had long hair.

However, even if correct, I'm more interested in whether the right is because women are stronger and left because men are weaker.  That's the symbolism behind our bowing in - we step to the left to cast out the weak in us, then back together.  In our bow the right hand is in a fist (strength) and the left/weaker hand covers it (scholarship).

So, again, right = strong, left = weak.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jun 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XtremeJ_AKKI _
> *From my understanding, it was simply a matter of visual distinction between mail and female students, since a lot of guys in the 60's liked to wear their hair long.
> 
> Also ( not trying to flame a bug up here or anything ), but a couple of the Tracy's were notorious for using the old ' Parker based his art on Mormonsim ' line to detract from his accomplishments for years. *


I'm not trying to start an arguement either, but some things seem likely:
1. The Tracy brothers are Mormons themselves.  It seems unlikely that they would use Mormonism as a detraction.
2. Long hair or not, most people can tell the guys from the gals, even in a gi.
3. The people who wish to actively conceal their gender would tend to not comply with the belt knot rule.

Just trying to use my grey cells (both of 'em),
Randy Strausbaugh


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## ProfessorKenpo (Jun 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Hefeweizen _
> *That's what I heard about the belt on left and right - from ancient china when males and females both had long hair.
> 
> However, even if correct, I'm more interested in whether the right is because women are stronger and left because men are weaker.  That's the symbolism behind our bowing in - we step to the left to cast out the weak in us, then back together.  In our bow the right hand is in a fist (strength) and the left/weaker hand covers it (scholarship).
> ...



I've been taught that the left yields to the strong side which is why we step left in a horse.   On the belt issue,  Women are right and men are left, wondering LOL.


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## MartialArtist (Jun 19, 2003)

Maybe politics had something to do with it?

Right - Strong
Left - Weak

Flame-retardant suit on


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jun 19, 2003)

Mega-dittoes.  

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh


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## Sandor (Jun 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> *Try this...
> 
> In ancient china, males and females both wore their hair long, usually in a braided pony tail. To tell them apart females wore their sashes to the right and males to the left.
> ...




hrm... I can see that it might be a problem if you have a bunch of orphan children that are wearing the same clothes and have thier heads shaved... but the adults I think would be kind of easy to spot...:asian:


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## kenpo3631 (Jun 24, 2003)

Women are stronger emotionally, and physically in the sense they give birth ~ a pain far greater than any man can stand:asian:


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## purplekenposkunk (Jul 8, 2003)

Why are women considered stronger in Kenpo?


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## cdhall (Jul 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Hefeweizen _
> *I asked about why men and women wear the belt knot on the left and right, respectively.    I was told that traditionally in Kenpo the left side is the weaker side, and men are the weaker sex which is why men wear the knot on the left.
> 
> Is this correct?
> (about the reason for the belt knot, not whether men are in fact weaker or not) *



I am pretty sure this is in Infinite Insights Book 1.  I don't have it here but I'll try to remember to look it up and give you a page number.

I would not doubt the story about Sashes in Ancient China either.  It would not be unusual for Mr. Parker to have adopted this convention from somewhere else but then give us the explanation he wanted to give.

Others could elaborate on that more fully.

My original instructor says that the knot to the side thing applies to sashes anyway and when I last visited a class of his he moved my belt knot back to the center, so there is a bit more evidence.  He studies Hung Gar as well and teaches "Chinese Kenpo."
:asian:


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