# Guard variations



## Mark L (Apr 21, 2005)

Hi Folks,
I'm mostly a kempo guy, but we've been playing with submission wrestling for a few years as an adjunct to our curriculum, and if I may, I'd like to ask questions here from time to time.
What are your opinions on the pros and cons, the right situations and the wrong situations, to use variations on the guard (open, closed, spider).  I've only ever used the closed guard, and I'd like to broaden my knowledge.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 21, 2005)

A closed guard is like a closed door, it just gets in your way...

 If you want to get anywhere you got to open it.  Don't worry too much about the names and isolating different variations, thats not how it should work.  Instead things flow into each other.  The longer you try to hold a position the longer the other guy has to pass, your guard needs to be active.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 21, 2005)

One more thing...  Open guard means keep that underhook or overhook if you don't like getting passed


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## arnisador (Apr 21, 2005)

It took me a long time to feel comfortable relaxing my guard!


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## JDenz (Apr 21, 2005)

and that is just the first step of the road.


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## arnisador (Apr 21, 2005)

I'm gonna need a golf cart.

I'm still working on working the butterfly guard, but I do play oipen guard often now, unless the other person is so much smaller than me that I can control him by strength in the guard.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 22, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> I'm gonna need a golf cart.
> 
> I'm still working on working the butterfly guard, but I do play oipen guard often now, unless the other person is so much smaller than me that I can control him by strength in the guard.


 Keep an underhook and sit up, if you are on your back butterfly guard looses its effectiveness.  Also if you loose control of the upper body he can pass so you need to keep that, and have it before getting both hooks in.

 And this is the same for any guard position, you need to keep the guy in your guard, closed guard this is easy, you just cross your feet.  But with an open guard you need to use other ways of making sure he doesn't just stand up and start kicking you...

 And that is one reason why in the beginning most people get passed constantly, they forget about holding the person in...


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## Shogun (Apr 22, 2005)

If you close up your guard, you better be working the arms! when I close my guard, I shift my weight back and forth, dropping the hips and slightly turing to my side. the same action used for the elbow escape, armbar, triangle, Kimura, etc. shifting back and forth allows me to already be in a better position if my opponent decides to pass.


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## Mark L (Apr 22, 2005)

Thanks for the response guys, I appreciate it.



			
				Andrew Green said:
			
		

> And that is one reason why in the beginning most people get passed constantly, they forget about holding the person in...



This is what I'm trying to resolve.  I usually keep my guard closed because that's when I feel I'm in control, I'll stay closed until I see an opportunity for a submission or positional improvement.  Guess I'll start opening up a bit and see what happens.



			
				Shogun said:
			
		

> If you close up your guard, you better be working the arms! when I close my guard, I shift my weight back and forth, dropping the hips and slightly turing to my side. the same action used for the elbow escape, armbar, triangle, Kimura, etc. shifting back and forth allows me to already be in a better position if my opponent decides to pass.



Sure, all of the above.  The guard is my most comfortable position, actually too comfortable.  I think by opening up I'd be able to transition to more dominant positions more quickly, but it feels like I'm losing control by doing so.  Just gotta do it until I figure it out ...


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## Andrew Green (Apr 22, 2005)

Mark L said:
			
		

> This is what I'm trying to resolve. I usually keep my guard closed because that's when I feel I'm in control, I'll stay closed until I see an opportunity for a submission or positional improvement. Guess I'll start opening up a bit and see what happens.


 Yep, and that is the grappling dilemma, in order to get better at something you got to be "worse" then you are for a while.

 Training is not fighting to win, it is fighting to loose.  Open your guard, yes you will probably get passed lots for a while, but until you do you will be stuck on a plateau....


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## JDenz (Apr 22, 2005)

ya if you do get passed though it isn't the end of the world not like your going to get your skull caved in with knees it is just training, plus it will give you time to work on defense from inferior postions.


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## Shogun (Apr 22, 2005)

Yeah, my BJJ instuctor works VERY well from his back, when someone has his side. I have watched Collegiate wrestlers try and hold him down, and it is a waste of time. He will let you pass, then escape once you do. he often lets you pass then puts you back in the guard, with a great deal of ease. normally when we are sparring, pass then try and get him to rise to his feet. I can then take him down ito a more favorable position. he still sweeps or taps me when I am in a good position though.


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## arnisador (Apr 22, 2005)

Shogun said:
			
		

> If you close up your guard, you better be working the arms!


 I'm a choker. I go for the neck.


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## Lisa (Apr 24, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> I'm a choker. I go for the neck.


 LOL, I like chokes too!   But one of the problems I have found when grappling is concentrating too much on one technique or one area of my opponents body.  It gets me in trouble all of the time.  With time and practice you learn to see other opportunities and other submissions but when you only use a few techniques your opponent learns how to counter them quickly and affectively.  I sparred with one guy who caught me in a key lock a couple of times and the next time he sparred with me I was ready for it and successfully avoided the submission.

 Beginners have a limited amount of experience and therefore with their lack of experience and knowledge of only a few sumissions, a more experienced opponent will know what they will be going for.  To me, if I am sparring with someone new and they are executing a lock on me and doing it properly, I let them have it.  I learned that from my instructor for they need the opportunity to feel an accomplishment too otherwise frustration sets in.

 Sorry for the off topic


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## arnisador (Apr 24, 2005)

Good points. One of the best pieces of BJJ advice I ever got was that at the beginning I should pick one technique per position and try to work that technique whenever possible. It got me to see openings, and at least gave me something to try when all seemed hopeless! But, after a short while I passed through that stage and now don't want to focus too much on one technique(s). And it's true, I do tend to go for the choke and hang on to a partial choke when others might switch to working on teh arm sooner...but I _do_ switch!

I try to do the same with newcomers, for the same reasons. Encouragement is important!


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