# Kempo/kenpo and yoga



## kosho (Nov 21, 2007)

Hello,
         I was just wondering how many of you take Yoga along with your kempo/kenpo training? In Kosho Ryu Kempo Under Hanshi Juchnik it is a part of training and a way to help you over all in the Martial arts.

I have been doing it for a short time now  and I find myself more relaxed and getting better flexabilty.

anyone else here in kempo/kenpo do this???

Kosho


----------



## Bay Area's Best (Nov 21, 2007)

What type of yoga are you learning? Mostly meditation or the excercises and or streches?


----------



## bushidomartialarts (Nov 21, 2007)

We have a yoga program at our school, and I try to get in two hours a week for myself.

It's absolutely fantastic exercise and meditation.  Almost completely dissimilar to our own beloved kenpo, though.

Still, the strength and flexibility carry buku benefits.


----------



## KenpoDave (Nov 21, 2007)

kosho said:


> Hello,
> I was just wondering how many of you take Yoga along with your kempo/kenpo training? In Kosho Ryu Kempo Under Hanshi Juchnik it is a part of training and a way to help you over all in the Martial arts.
> 
> I have been doing it for a short time now and I find myself more relaxed and getting better flexabilty.
> ...


 
I do a 90 minute program once a week, and attend a 60 minute class once a week.  I agree about the benefits.  It is amazing and quickly becoming a workout that I really look forward to.


----------



## KenpoDave (Nov 21, 2007)

kosho said:


> Hello,
> I was just wondering how many of you take Yoga along with your kempo/kenpo training? In Kosho Ryu Kempo Under Hanshi Juchnik it is a part of training and a way to help you over all in the Martial arts.
> 
> I have been doing it for a short time now and I find myself more relaxed and getting better flexabilty.
> ...


 
Can you explain to me the difference between what Mitose called "japanese yoga" and other yoga?


----------



## kosho (Nov 22, 2007)

*Can you explain to me the difference between what Mitose called "japanese yoga" and other yoga?*

I do not know that much about Yoga or Japanese yoga. But I will
ask Pat Kelly Sensei and get back to you.

Kosho


----------



## Gentle Fist (Nov 22, 2007)

I learned all I needed to know about relaxing in BJJ.  If you don't relax you get choked out.  :anic:


----------



## KenpoDave (Nov 22, 2007)

kosho said:


> *Can you explain to me the difference between what Mitose called "japanese yoga" and other yoga?*
> 
> I do not know that much about Yoga or Japanese yoga. But I will
> ask Pat Kelly Sensei and get back to you.
> ...


 
Thanks!


----------



## KenpoDave (Nov 23, 2007)

Found this at http://www.senninfoundation.com/japanese_yoga.html

"The primary and most vital area of study at the Sennin Foundation Center is the practice of Japanese yoga (_Shin-shin-toitsu-do_). This art, inspired by the teachings of Nakamura Tempu Sensei, includes stretching exercises, seated meditation, moving meditation, breathing exercises, healing arts, and health improvement methods. The goal of these techniques is the realization of one's full potential in everyday life through the unification of mind and body.
In Japan, a number of time-honored everyday activities (such as making tea, arranging flowers, painting, and writing) have traditionally been examined deeply by their proponents. Students study how to make tea, perform martial arts, or write with a brush in the most skillful way possible--namely, to express themselves with maximum efficiency and minimum strain. Through this efficient, adroit, and creative performance, they arrive at art. But if they continue to delve even more deeply into their art, they discover principles that are truly universal, principles relating to life itself. Then, the art of brush writing becomes _shodo_--the "way of the brush"--while the art of arranging flowers is elevated to the status of _kado_--the "way of flowers." Through these "ways" or "do" forms ("tao" in Chinese), the Japanese have sought to realize the way of living itself. They have approached the universal through the particular.






Yet grasping the ultimate nature of life--the principles and way of the Universe--is seemingly a large-scale undertaking. (The Universe is infinite after all.) For this reason, it isn't difficult to understand the traditional emphasis on approaching the universal via a profound, ongoing examination of a particular way. Still, we must wonder if it isn't possible to discover the essence of living, and universal principles relating to all aspects of life, directly?
In 1919, Nakamura Tempu Sensei, upon returning from studying yoga in India, began to share with others principles and exercises that he felt were universal and not dependent on a particular art; that is, concepts relating to all activities and all people regardless of age, sex, or race. Methods that have observable and repeatable results, along with principles and exercises that can withstand objective scrutiny, were of primary importance to him."

There is more at the website.

Thoughts?


----------



## newGuy12 (Nov 23, 2007)

KenpoDave said:


> Thoughts?


The website says that he has a *medical degree*, and has researched the nervous system and the unification of mind and body!

I practiced American Kenpo with a very good Teacher, and He mentioned the Yoga to me.  He now only gives private lessons, and I instead am a student at a TKD school (my only core art).  Yet, the Yoga has given me many good feelings, and I still practice it.  He is the one who prompted me to learn about this wonderful thing!

If you seek out a way to practice Yoga poses, you will find one to your liking and personality.  Some prefer the static poses (I do).  Some prefer more vigorous dynamic sequences.  There is a wealth of information available these days.  Many great Yoga teachers have moved to the West, and are publishing books!

Just be careful to not give up your Martial Art if you start to "beam up" too much!  You may prefer the Yoga to the Fighting Arts if you are not careful.  It is that lovely at times!


----------



## Jim Hanna (Nov 25, 2007)

The Way, whether it be through the tea ceremony, flower arranging, etc., is so simple and yet so profound.

For example, Haiku is a very short form of poetry.  It's rules are so easy to comprehend that children can write it.

Yet Basho, whom many consider to be the greatest haiku poet to ever live, stated that if a person can write 10 haiku in a lifetime then he is a master.

There are many people out there that can write 10 "looks like haiku" in a day.  Its the difference between a manequin and a man.

Jim


----------



## tellner (Nov 25, 2007)

Yoga is wonderful stuff. Rickson Gracie says it's the one indispensable part of his routine. Guro Inosanto says he does it every day to help with the toll his career has taken on his body. 

I'm a little skeptical of the "Japanese Yoga" though. It dates from a time when Japanese culture was on the whole xenophobic, insanely racist, more jingoistic than the PNAC fan club and determined to show that whatever it was Japan's version was inherently superior and comprehensible only to the Exalted Nihonjin. I can't say as I'm particularly impressed by his chief disciple. I have never met a member of Tohei's ryu who _*lacked *_a really appalling sense of smug superiority and condescension towards every other spiritual practice and martial art around. I'm sure there are some, but in thirty years in the martial arts I have yet to meet any. Seriously. 

With that degree of self-imposed blindness I find it difficult to believe that the Ki Society yoga is any better than the traditional Indian versions. Besides, as many authoritative teachers have pointed out, Yoga as a mental and physical technology does not have to be welded to some sort of religious philosophy about unifying the cosmos or grasping the essential nature of reality. 

Just as an example, take a look at Scott Sonnon's Prasara Flow stuff (or Ageless, Mobility, Intu-Flow, Be Breathed, Softwork, etc.) He doesn't claim it's the Unholy Ichor of Great Cthulhu. But it does get results without being encumbered by delusions of its own superiority and is specifically designed with martial artists in mind. There is all sorts of other excellent yoga out there for MAists such as Bikram and  Ashtanga.


----------



## KenpoDave (Nov 25, 2007)

Tellner, you make some excellent points.  I have studied yoga off and on for a number of years, and have been hitting it pretty regularly for a while.  I don't know if you are familiar with James Mitose, but one of the facets of his family art mentioned in his book was "japanese yoga."  I have been looking into that term recently and the site and quote I posted are, so far, the only references to that term I have come across.

What I am trying to find is either the particular poses that Mitose would have been taught, or as close an approximation as I can find.  Not necessarily because I believe in any sort of superiority of a japanese yoga, but because I would like the opportunity to see how it would influence my art of kenpo.  If there is indeed a particular yoga tied historically to my art, I'd like to find it.

Until I ran across that site, I was operating under the assumption that by "japanese yoga," Mitose was describing something that may not actually be "yoga" in a strict sense of the term.  Perhaps a formalized stretching or calisthenic routine, whatever.  As I said, other than Mitose's book, this website is the only reference I have come across yet.


----------



## Benjp (Nov 27, 2007)

My kempo instructor teaches yoga as part of our training.  I found it somewhat helpful and several years ago started serious yoga training with a yogi that teaches at my workplace.

I've found non-kempo yoga to be much more beneficial and helpful.  Stretching and flexibility are key components to martial movement..  However, with the yoga I've been learning at work I've been able to draw on more significant benefits than just flexibility.


----------



## KenpoDave (Nov 27, 2007)

Benjp said:


> My kempo instructor teaches yoga as part of our training. I found it somewhat helpful and several years ago started serious yoga training with a yogi that teaches at my workplace.
> 
> I've found non-kempo yoga to be much more beneficial and helpful. Stretching and flexibility are key components to martial movement.. However, with the yoga I've been learning at work I've been able to draw on more significant benefits than just flexibility.


 
Could you please elaborate on "non-kempo yoga" vs. "kempo yoga."

Thanks!


----------



## Benjp (Nov 27, 2007)

KenpoDave said:


> Could you please elaborate on "non-kempo yoga" vs. "kempo yoga."



Oops, I didn't mean to make a distinction of types.  The primary difference between the two is the style of teaching.  (And based on my experiences with substitute yoga instructors, every yogi teaches differently )

In "kempo yoga" my kempo instructor is leading us in 10 minutes of yoga that might encompass a sun salutation and some triangle postures.  He's taught yoga professionally but his current profession is teaching high school.

In "non-kempo yoga" my yogi leads us in an hour of yoga that is focussed on form and ultimately better yoga.  This instructor teaches yoga full time and has just published a book on teaching yoga to children.  

As far as Japanese yoga is concerned, the instructional issue aside, there are a few odd "asanas" that appear from time to time.. 

There is an asana called the Mitose sun salutation that differs greatly from any version of sun salutation I've ever seen.

There is also another asana that involves alternating leg kicks that follow the sequence: front kick, roundhouse kick, side kick, back hook kick, and back kick.  It can be done by alternating after each kick or alternating after each sequence.

Unfortunately, I don't know the history of these..  I'll try to ask in my next class.


----------



## KenpoDave (Nov 27, 2007)

Benjp said:


> In "kempo yoga" my kempo instructor is leading us in 10 minutes of yoga that might encompass a sun salutation and some triangle postures. He's taught yoga professionally but his current profession is teaching high school.
> 
> In "non-kempo yoga" my yogi leads us in an hour of yoga that is focussed on form and ultimately better yoga. This instructor teaches yoga full time and has just published a book on teaching yoga to children.


 
Thanks!



> As far as Japanese yoga is concerned, the instructional issue aside, there are a few odd "asanas" that appear from time to time..
> 
> There is an asana called the Mitose sun salutation that differs greatly from any version of sun salutation I've ever seen.
> 
> ...


 
That would be great.  Any info would be appreciated.  Do you by any chance have any graphic references to the Japanese Yoga asanas, or a reference from which I may find them?


----------



## Benjp (Nov 27, 2007)

KenpoDave said:


> That would be great.  Any info would be appreciated.  Do you by any chance have any graphic references to the Japanese Yoga asanas, or a reference from which I may find them?



This site has a version of the Mitose sun salution that looks very similar to what I practice in my dojo..

Regards,

Ben


----------



## KenpoDave (Nov 27, 2007)

Benjp said:


> This site has a version of the Mitose sun salution that looks very similar to what I practice in my dojo..
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ben


 
Thanks.  I was wondering if that was what you may be referring to.

What about the "kicking asanas?"


----------



## Benjp (Nov 28, 2007)

Hi Dave,

I've been following the yoga posts in both this forum and Dr. Sumner's forum.

As for the "kicking asanas", I'll break them down in to more detail--

1. right front kick
2. left front kick
3. right front roundhouse kick (my instructor teaches a roundhouse that resembles stepping over an obstacle and is ).
4. left front roundhouse kick
5. right side kick
6. left side kick
7. right back hook kick
8. left back hook kick
9. right back kick
10. left back kick.

notice there are 10 kicks total.  Repeating this sequence ten times gives one hundred kicks.  It's a great exercise for developing good kicking, but it's even better for developing a good sense of balance.

Even better for balance is doing it this way:
1. right front kick
2. right front roundhouse kick
3. right side kick
4. right back hook kick
5. right back kick
6-10. repeat first 5 with left leg.

Some other oddities that we do that might fall in to this category of yoga:
zig zag jumping patterns (both side to side and back and forth)
frog jumping (jumping as high as possible while pulling feet towards the body then landing quietly)
height jumping (jumping from a position considerably lower to a 2'-4' platform) 

I've emailed my sensei's instructor, Larry Kraxberger, for information about the Japanese yoga that we do.  I'll try and relay the information as best I can.

Regards,

Ben


----------



## kosho (Nov 29, 2007)

Larry Kraxberger Sensei, Is a Great person and a TOP shelf kosho Teacher.
I am still waiting for my call back from Pat kelly Sensei on this.
I had a great time with both in RENO at the gathering.

kosho


----------



## KenpoDave (Nov 29, 2007)

Benjp said:


> As for the "kicking asanas", I'll break them down in to more detail--


 
Thanks!




> Some other oddities that we do that might fall in to this category of yoga:
> zig zag jumping patterns (both side to side and back and forth)
> frog jumping (jumping as high as possible while pulling feet towards the body then landing quietly)
> height jumping (jumping from a position considerably lower to a 2'-4' platform)


 
Have you read Mitose's book, "What is True Self Defense?"  He outlines a series of 14 jumping patterns and recommends a practice regimen of 100 of each for 100 days.  Your patterns listed above resemble a couple of them.



> I've emailed my sensei's instructor, Larry Kraxberger, for information about the Japanese yoga that we do. I'll try and relay the information as best I can.


 
Great.  I would love to know how these asanas are performed.  Like other poses, where they are achieved slowly and held, or just done as slow kicks?


----------



## kosho (Nov 29, 2007)

*Kosho Shorei Yoga*​*Three Body postures*

*Standing praying postion*

*Sitting Postion* legs crossed and the covered fist two inches below the navel

*Lying postion* hands and arms are at the side of the body


*The Seven hand postion*

Praying hands
covered fist
open hands
first knuckles
finger tips
closed fists
palms flat

*Here's a Exercise # 2*

sit down in a praying postion and straighten the legs in front. Take a deep breath, straighten the arms, bend the back and touch the toes with your finger tips. Exhale slowly, straighten up and get into covered fist position
take a deep breath staighten arms bend the back and grab the toes and pull exhale slowly, straighten up and get into the open hands postion. Change to a praying hands position. this will end the set numbered # 2

*I forgot I had*  1 - 10 written down. I am still waiting a call from Pat Kelly Sensei, I will also get a call into Hanshi Juchnik tonight.

take care,
*Kosho*​


----------



## Benjp (Nov 29, 2007)

kosho said:


> Larry Kraxberger Sensei, Is a Great person and a TOP shelf kosho Teacher.



Yes, our class is very fortunate to have him drop in from time to time..


			
				KenpoDave said:
			
		

> Have you read Mitose's book, "What is True Self Defense?" He outlines a series of 14 jumping patterns and recommends a practice regimen of 100 of each for 100 days. Your patterns listed above resemble a couple of them.



I wish.  I spent the better part of the last 5 years searching online bookstores and auction sites for a copy that I could afford.  Alas, they're too rare.



			
				kosho said:
			
		

> Kosho Shorei Yoga
> ...



Thanks for the information!  I had forgotten about the Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo student handbook..

I also mentioned on the other forum the energy collection exercises as they are very similar to the Mitose sun salutation.

Regards,

Ben


----------



## Kosho Gakkusei (Dec 3, 2007)

KenpoDave said:


> Have you read Mitose's book, "What is True Self Defense?" He outlines a series of 14 jumping patterns and recommends a practice regimen of 100 of each for 100 days. Your patterns listed above resemble a couple of them.


 
Dave,
If you have that book then I think you have a great starting point to understand what James Mitose was talking about in regards to Japanese Yoga.  A number of the excercises that have already been mentioned are found in there.

Benjp,
I bought my copy of _What is True Self Defense?_ as part of the Journey Series package done by Hanshi.  The series includes 20 DVDs in which Hanshi interprets a number of passages from the book.  The book is an integral part of Kosho history but the DVDs boost it's usefulness and applicability to your training.  Check with Hanshi to see if he still offers this series.

_Don Flatt


----------



## kaizasosei (Dec 3, 2007)

japanese yoga.... interesting.  i have read some material from mitosesensei but i didn't learn of the actual term japanese yoga. i think taiso would mean bodily exercise like different types of stretching or movement of body or limbs . 
  at least, in japan, i would think there is no such word as japanese yoga.  however, i definately can understand what is meant as japan can truly claim to have great knowledge of the body and it's various applications.   the knowledge historicaly was accumulated over the ages from sages, warriors etc..
     still in present day japan, one can often find people doing morning exercises.  the cult of the center is still much alive in all types of practices as mentioned above for example. that is not only a historical form of evolution but even as the individual comes to realize the obvious interaction of self and all things.  being in a vehicle of sorts that is to be in the body.  how could anyone deny the similarity?  

japan is a culture that has a close relationship with the ground because of siting without chairs.  as in seiza or even kekkafuza for those that practice zen.  this in itself is like a type of physical yoga.  yoga meaning 'unification'
some kind of joining, melting..harnesing.

however, i am sure that even before buddhism, it was the martial and other cultural traditions that shaped everything else, in their image/example of perfection.





j


----------



## KenpoDave (Dec 4, 2007)

Kosho Gakkusei said:


> Dave,
> If you have that book then I think you have a great starting point to understand what James Mitose was talking about in regards to Japanese Yoga. A number of the excercises that have already been mentioned are found in there.


 
I got mine out the other day and sort of skimmed over those sections.  I am hoping to get to spend some quality time with it this week.


----------



## kaizasosei (Dec 7, 2007)

i own this book written by michio kushi.  it talks about a subject called macrobiotics.  there are many yoga style exercises also shown.
  i would think that one thing that could be called japanese yoga is taijutsu or taihenjutsu also kiko-japanese word for chigung- keeping in mind that there are also many strictly chinese styles practiced in japan.


----------



## Benjp (Dec 11, 2007)

I spoke with Larry Kraxberger sensei last night and we discussed Japanese yoga.  He stated that he would like to post his response in his q&a section of his website.  So I think I'll let his answer stand for itself rather than paraphrase or interpret incorrectly.

Watch this space for his response...

Regards,

Ben


----------



## KenpoDave (Dec 11, 2007)

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## joeleitz (Mar 22, 2010)

I've never heard of kempo style yoga either so I'm interested in knowing what you mean by that. I practice yoga daily and I find that it has great benefits. I feel so much more energized after just a half hour practice. I actually studied yoga and did the yoga teacher training in Baja, Mexico. I really enjoyed everything I learned but I'm not teaching it myself. I just don't have time for everything at the moment.



Benjp said:


> My kempo instructor teaches yoga as part of our training.  I found it somewhat helpful and several years ago started serious yoga training with a yogi that teaches at my workplace.
> 
> I've found non-kempo yoga to be much more beneficial and helpful.  Stretching and flexibility are key components to martial movement..  However, with the yoga I've been learning at work I've been able to draw on more significant benefits than just flexibility.


----------



## Brother John (Jul 22, 2010)

I practiced yoga for the 1st half of my 20s, then ....just "got busy" with life.

Now my wife and I are getting back into it and I'm LOVING it!
The things that both the martial arts and yoga have in common is amazing!

Curious to read about other martial artists experience with yoga. I agree with Mr. Inosanto.... it helps alieviate what decades of martial arts training can do to you.

Your Brother
John


----------

