# Boxing and kenpo



## scorpio (Feb 27, 2005)

My Kenpo instructor likes to incorporate basic boxing techniques in class. This mainly consists of throwing jabs, crosses, hooks etc. As well as learning to slip, bob and weave. we usually spend one class a week hitting the heavy bag while refining our punches and evasive maneuvers.
 My punching has improved dramatically and the principles learned are easily applied to other strikes (hammerfists, back knuckles etc.).
I personally enjoy this aspect of training, and feel it has made me a better kenpoist as well as better preparing me for real physical confrontation.

Any thoughts or experiences?


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## dubljay (Feb 27, 2005)

I agree, I see many advanced students throwing punches that would end up breaking their fingers or wrist because they don't have proper techniqe.  This is not to say that Kenpo doesn't develope proper technique but boxing developes it much quicker, in my opinion.

 Also if memory serves me correctly SGM Parker had a background in boxing.  Mr. Trejo also had boxing experience before he started Kenpo.


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## kenpoworks (Feb 28, 2005)

Boxing training was part of my mid teens, (long ago and far away), but because of the nature of the training, the lessons I learned are ingrained.
Yes I do agree that Kenpoists should at some stage explore Boxing Training, even if its just at equipment level e.g. speed ball, jab & hook bag, heavy/medium bag and of course Pad work, Kenpoists could learn a thing or three about coordination,rythm and timing just from speed ball practice.
Rich.
ps I still skip as well as do bag and pad work on regular basis (at least once a week)


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## MJS (Feb 28, 2005)

scorpio said:
			
		

> My Kenpo instructor likes to incorporate basic boxing techniques in class. This mainly consists of throwing jabs, crosses, hooks etc. As well as learning to slip, bob and weave. we usually spend one class a week hitting the heavy bag while refining our punches and evasive maneuvers.
> My punching has improved dramatically and the principles learned are easily applied to other strikes (hammerfists, back knuckles etc.).
> I personally enjoy this aspect of training, and feel it has made me a better kenpoist as well as better preparing me for real physical confrontation.
> 
> Any thoughts or experiences?



Welcome to the forum Scorpio!  Enjoy your stay here.

As for your question...Yes, I think that its an excellent thing to do.  Its one thing to do punches/kicks on a stationary target as it helps to build power and gives one the feeling of actually hitting something, but I feel that its also important to incorporate proper footwork, proper hand formation and hitting methods, as well as adding movement into the drills.  My Modern Arnis instructor does this on a regular basis as well, in addition to our weapon training.

Keep up the good work!  You'll notice that you'll just keep getting better and better!! :ultracool 

Mike


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## The Kai (Feb 28, 2005)

Additionally, working a Uppercutt bag is great for discovering the power of stances and transtions


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## masherdong (Feb 28, 2005)

Yes, I would like to have some of boxing incorporated into the MA's.  Since most street fights are a "boxing" style fight, it would be good to know.


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## kenpoworks (Feb 28, 2005)

The KAI wrote..Additionally, working a Uppercutt bag is great for discovering the power of stances and transtions........dead right, its correct use of the transitions that give s  the uppercut, hook and cross their devastaing power, the upper cut is one of the foundations of Kenpo and is probably (should be IMHO) the first punch taught to Kenpo students.
Rich
Ps I use the maize bag for jab, hook and UPPERCUT.


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## The Kai (Feb 28, 2005)

Actually watching most Martial artist  attempt an uppercut is a somewhat humorous!


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## clapping_tiger (Feb 28, 2005)

Besides the uppercut, the hook is another very common punch that is thrown wrong. What most Martial artists call a hook, is in reality just a clumsy haymaker. Boxing is a great addition to any art. I think punches are not covered properly sometimes because most of the time, people all think they already know how to punch.


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## kenpoworks (Feb 28, 2005)

Self Defence Techniques such as Raining Claw and Shielding Hammer, can be improved if you build the technique "back" from realistic punching, in this case uppercut & left hook.
when attacked in this fashion if you do not immediately apply the equation formula, then you are going to have a rude awakening , as well as a sore face.


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## 8253 (Feb 28, 2005)

The more you learn the better off you are.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 1, 2005)

I agree with everyone, I also beleive that everyone should cross train, add some kickboxing and grappling to the boxing and kenpo, then practice flowing from one range to the other, just as real fights occur.


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## asangria (Mar 1, 2005)

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> Boxing training was part of my mid teens, (long ago and far away), but because of the nature of the training, the lessons I learned are ingrained.
> Yes I do agree that Kenpoists should at some stage explore Boxing Training, even if its just at equipment level e.g. speed ball, jab & hook bag, heavy/medium bag and of course Pad work, Kenpoists could learn a thing or three about coordination,rythm and timing just from speed ball practice.
> Rich.
> ps I still skip as well as do bag and pad work on regular basis (at least once a week)


 I could never get the hang of skipping properly. We do a lot of skipping without the rope for a warm up to get us used to staying light on our feet.

 It would do well for people to learn how to throw proper punches to lower the level of wrist injuries that occur during sparring.


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## kenpoworks (Mar 1, 2005)

Asangria,RE:Skipping
skipping changes when you start to use a rope, it's more dificult but more beneficial.
A couple of pointers that might help
1) try slowy walking up and down the gym while swinging the rope and stepping through it. 
2) with feet together and staying relaxed, come up on the balls of your feet bend your knees then bounce ( a bit like po-go-ing), now introduce the rope get the timing down by bouncing when you hear the rope slap the floor infront of you. 
3)when you have got this down, try bouncing on one leg while jumping the rope for a 5/10 count then the other leg and finally alternate right then left.
It is best to skip on a sprung floor or wooden floor anything that gives and takes the impact away from the knees, things like concrete are a definate no! no!, if you do it on an unforgiving surface your knees will blow up after about 10/20 mins.
Start by wearing soft shoes sneekers or trainers this protects the toes, shin and instep from the lash of the rope when you get it wrong.
Skipping builds stamina, develops timing, co-ordination as well as rythm, it well worth putting a bit of time in to develop it.
Good luck 
Rich


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## Seabrook (Mar 1, 2005)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> I agree with everyone, I also beleive that everyone should cross train, add some kickboxing and grappling to the boxing and kenpo, then practice flowing from one range to the other, just as real fights occur.


In addition to my 6th degree in EPAK, I also hold black belts in Modern Arnis, Black Dragon System Kung Fu, and Shorinji-Ryu Karate. So I have definitely done a lot of "cross-training". 

But the more I think about it, and continue to dig deeper into my knowledge and understanding of EPAK, do you think it is better to "cross-train" or "cross-reference"? I think of the latter as learning PIECES from various styles to see how it relates or improves your Kenpo base.  The former would be trying to learn an entire system to black belt in addition to your study of EPAK.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## MJS (Mar 1, 2005)

Seabrook said:
			
		

> But the more I think about it, and continue to dig deeper into my knowledge and understanding of EPAK, do you think it is better to "cross-train" or "cross-reference"? I think of the latter as learning PIECES from various styles to see how it relates or improves your Kenpo base.  The former would be trying to learn an entire system to black belt in addition to your study of EPAK.



Excellent point Sir.  I would have to say that it depends on the person.  Me personally, I train in a few others, but again, its up to what the person doing it feels comfortable with.  However, seeing that there is so much out there, I think its a good idea to at least cross reference, for the reasons that you mention in your post.  

Mike


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## Kenpo Mama (Mar 1, 2005)

My question is in regard to "cross-referencing" in other arts for the benefit of improving one's kenpo base.  The thought of looking at some boxing or grappling systems has been on my mind for some time.  I do see the benefit of "cross-referencing" these styles (for me, anyway) as it applies to my own kenpo.  To those of you already training in other arts - do you find when you walk in the door of another style's studio, that you are met with the attitude that their art is the best and there is none better and poo poo to your style.

How do you react to this?  Do you even mention the fact that you train in another art, or do you take what you need and ignore the "commentary".  I realize it also depends upon the studio and instructor, but being a woman in the arts - i find that there are a lot of guys that want to show me how to do "it" better.  I am accepting and open to all fellow martial artists, but at times the information i receive is contradictory.  Well not to get totally off topic, just thought i'd ask how others felt about their "alternate" training - whether specific to boxing or not.

Salute,

Donna   :asian:


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## MJS (Mar 1, 2005)

Kenpo Mama said:
			
		

> My question is in regard to "cross-referencing" in other arts for the benefit of improving one's kenpo base.  The thought of looking at some boxing or grappling systems has been on my mind for some time.  I do see the benefit of "cross-referencing" these styles (for me, anyway) as it applies to my own kenpo.  To those of you already training in other arts - do you find when you walk in the door of another style's studio, that you are met with the attitude that their art is the best and there is none better and poo poo to your style.
> 
> How do you react to this?  Do you even mention the fact that you train in another art, or do you take what you need and ignore the "commentary".  I realize it also depends upon the studio and instructor, but being a woman in the arts - i find that there are a lot of guys that want to show me how to do "it" better.  I am accepting and open to all fellow martial artists, but at times the information i receive is contradictory.  Well not to get totally off topic, just thought i'd ask how others felt about their "alternate" training - whether specific to boxing or not.
> 
> ...



My BJJ instructor is a Kenpo BB and runs his classes out of the Kenpo school.  Have I had people have that attitude? Yes, but when I go somewhere to train, as hard as it may be, I try to refrain from getting into the style vs. style debates.  I'm there to train, plain and simple, but when faced with those questions/attitudes, I try not to get into a long, drawn out debate.

Mike


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## Kenpo Mama (Mar 1, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> My BJJ instructor is a Kenpo BB and runs his classes out of the Kenpo school. Have I had people have that attitude? Yes, but when I go somewhere to train, as hard as it may be, I try to refrain from getting into the style vs. style debates. I'm there to train, plain and simple, but when faced with those questions/attitudes, I try not to get into a long, drawn out debate.
> 
> Mike


Hi Mike,

Thank you for your honest and straightforward reply.  I think you have an excellent attitude toward training.  Thanks for the input.

Donna


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## parkerkarate (Mar 1, 2005)

I do boxing drills with the students I teach. But that is only for a warm up, it will teach them quicker ways of hitting a person and timing. They all seem to like it.


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## bayonet (Mar 3, 2005)

In our school, my Sifu likes to incorporate boxing into the kenpo techniques . Five swords is an excellent example. Knowing and practicing boxing CANNOT hurt. Hee Il Cho requires his TKD students to box. Throwing punches as well as getting HIT is great training. Knowledge is power. 


BTW: anyone see the video clip of the guy get beat up in the pizza joint?


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## Hand Sword (Mar 3, 2005)

Seabrook said:
			
		

> In addition to my 6th degree in EPAK, I also hold black belts in Modern Arnis, Black Dragon System Kung Fu, and Shorinji-Ryu Karate. So I have definitely done a lot of "cross-training".
> 
> But the more I think about it, and continue to dig deeper into my knowledge and understanding of EPAK, do you think it is better to "cross-train" or "cross-reference"? I think of the latter as learning PIECES from various styles to see how it relates or improves your Kenpo base.  The former would be trying to learn an entire system to black belt in addition to your study of EPAK.
> 
> ...


 Six in one, Half a dozen in the other. It's just semantics, however to stay with the wording preference, Don't you have to take your "reference material" and then put it into action or "Train yourself" to do it, mixed with your EPAK? No matter the wording your taking SOME stuff of other styles (as I did say in my post, not training to blackbelt level) and adding it to be better well rounded in self defense.


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## kenpoworks (Mar 3, 2005)

Jamie Seabrook......In addition to my 6th degree in EPAK, I also hold black belts in Modern Arnis, Black Dragon System Kung Fu, and Shorinji-Ryu Karate. So I have definitely done a lot of "cross-training".....  
Yes I would say that that was a sort of cross training, impressive C.V. you have there Jamie.


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## Seabrook (Mar 3, 2005)

Kenpo Mama said:
			
		

> My question is in regard to "cross-referencing" in other arts for the benefit of improving one's kenpo base. The thought of looking at some boxing or grappling systems has been on my mind for some time. I do see the benefit of "cross-referencing" these styles (for me, anyway) as it applies to my own kenpo. To those of you already training in other arts - do you find when you walk in the door of another style's studio, that you are met with the attitude that their art is the best and there is none better and poo poo to your style.
> 
> How do you react to this? Do you even mention the fact that you train in another art, or do you take what you need and ignore the "commentary". I realize it also depends upon the studio and instructor, but being a woman in the arts - i find that there are a lot of guys that want to show me how to do "it" better. I am accepting and open to all fellow martial artists, but at times the information i receive is contradictory. Well not to get totally off topic, just thought i'd ask how others felt about their "alternate" training - whether specific to boxing or not.
> 
> ...


Donna,

I take what I need and ignore the "commentary"....because you're right....instructors often feel their style is the BEST.

But we all know Kenpo is best right.....hee, hee!

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Seabrook (Mar 3, 2005)

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> Jamie Seabrook......In addition to my 6th degree in EPAK, I also hold black belts in Modern Arnis, Black Dragon System Kung Fu, and Shorinji-Ryu Karate. So I have definitely done a lot of "cross-training".....
> Yes I would say that that was a sort of cross training, impressive C.V. you have there Jamie.


 
Thanks "kenpoworks". I see that you are a 6th Degree as well...have we met each other? Do you have a website?

Cheers bro,

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## kenpoworks (Mar 5, 2005)

We may have met, if you are one of Joe Fosters Canadian Team that attended the European Championships in Jersey in the early 90s.


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## still learning (Mar 6, 2005)

Hello, Boxing is the most natural way to fist fight. If not boxers would have found a better way to hit and defend. ( standup fighting with using hands only)

 If you are not learning about boxing you maybe missing an important part of fighting. I agree with all of you about learning to box. Yes there are rules in the ring. It is the basic stuffs about boxing we need to learn. Do you agree? Just my thoughts.....Aloha


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## Doc (Mar 6, 2005)

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, Boxing is the most natural way to fist fight. If not boxers would have found a better way to hit and defend. ( standup fighting with using hands only)
> 
> If you are not learning about boxing you maybe missing an important part of fighting. I agree with all of you about learning to box. Yes there are rules in the ring. It is the basic stuffs about boxing we need to learn. Do you agree? Just my thoughts.....Aloha



Of course all of you realize that Eastern Boxing came long before Western Boxing. Eastern Boxing was not a limited sport vehicle and had to withstand the test of real life or death confrontations. Funny thing about Western Boxers fighting on the street. They almost always break their hands. Don't get me wrong. These guys are tough, in shape, and can take punishment but what they do is very limited. I had a school across the street from a former welterweights gym. He was doing a serious business and came over to negoiate the use of some mat time for his overflow. He proposed he would swap me some boxing lessons for some mat time. He noted that "karate people" don't know how to "jab or punch." He asked if I could "hook off a jab." I said sure and proceed to demonstrate. He looked a bit surprized when I whipped the movement with power, and asked me if I had ever boxed. I said, "No." I than proposed he take some Kenpo lessons fro me. He replied that "boxing" is all he needed to defend himself. I said, Really?" ABout that time I looked over his shoulder as if I saw someone and asked him, "Is he with you?" When he turned around to see whom I was speaking of, I jumped on him and put him in a cervicle lock and took him to the floor. He weezed in a muffled voice, "What the hell are you doing?" "Making a point." I said. "Can you box your way out of this situation?" He stopped struggling, tapped me on my arm lightly, and I released him. He stood up smiling and said, "I get your point." He never came back, nor did we ever trade services, but he had a new found respect for what we do. Boxing is rough, tough, and manly as hell. But it is a sport, and if I want to learn to fight on the street, I don't train in football.


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## Kenpodoc (Mar 6, 2005)

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, Boxing is the most natural way to fist fight. If not boxers would have found a better way to hit and defend. ( standup fighting with using hands only)


I doubt it.  Boxing is a western convention.  Prior to the Queensbury rules western fighting was dramatically different.  Even after the rules were started fighting styles have evolved because of gloves, etc.  If you want to understand a style you need to look at the rules that have led  to that style. If we went to the simple step of removing gloves from the fighters you would see Western boxing change dramatically as the fighters adjusted to the new conditions.

Respectfully,

Jeff


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 6, 2005)

This was the first and continued practice in my training and teaching


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## Seabrook (Mar 6, 2005)

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> We may have met, if you are one of Joe Fosters Canadian Team that attended the European Championships in Jersey in the early 90s.


I was on that team, 1991-1992, but left his school within 6 months because I didn't like his club. So, I never went to Europe on that trip.

Anyway, best in Kenpo!

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## kenpoworks (Mar 6, 2005)

Jamie,
No big deal!, it was just a thought.
With Respect
Richy


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 6, 2005)

Per the different Kenpo organizations, it will seem strange that such patches/insigna are avaialble from public supply stores


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## kenpoworks (Mar 6, 2005)

Sorry, 47MartialMan, I am a bit slow and missing your points, please elaborate on your responses!
With Respect
Rich


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 6, 2005)

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> Sorry, 47MartialMan, I am a bit slow and missing your points, please elaborate on your responses!
> With Respect
> Rich


That is understandable. My mind goes on a tangent or moves so fast that it is hard to convey it or my thoughts to words. I suffer from dsylexia and/or dysphasia. As I go back to re-read and correct my mistakes, I would cause some to surface anyway.

I had seen many suppliers sell the different Kenpo patches/insignia, per Kenpo organization, to which long ago, for me to get one, we had to earn it and not "buy it". They just weren't avialable for anyone to purchase so openly and readily.

I often try to clear up to people the diiferemces of the spelling of Kenpo and Kempo. Although I have some info on this subject as well, would you care to elaborate your view on this so that i may add to my knoweldge?

with sincerity

47MM/Rick


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