# Feeling like I'm making some progress



## Orion Nebula (Mar 2, 2019)

I've definitely been making progress in the past 5ish weeks in many ways. My stamina has gotten better, posture is slowly improving (but still needs work), I can do techniques that really eluded me in my first few weeks, I'm not stomping around as much.

I know that rank isn't as important as some make it out to be, but it does serve a purpose for me, and that purpose is to serve as a sort of flag or marker that I'm making progress along my journey. It's nice to earn that next belt because it's an acknowledgement that yes, I am getting better and I'm learning more.

So it gave me a big confidence boost yesterday when my sensei told me what I needed to do for my first test and had me go through the sequence of techniques a few times. The next test isn't for several months of course, but I'm happy that I'll probably get to earn my first colored belt soon.

On a side note, testing for Shotokan seems quite different than my old style. For my test, I have to memorize the order of the techniques I'm being tested on and perform them in sequence. In my old style, I was given a list of things I had  to know (along with the Japanese  words for them). On test day, I'd be asked to demonstrate a random selection of the techniques (and they'd use Japanese to make sure I had learned the name). Perhaps this is more related to the fact that the Shotokan test is done at a regional seminar, unlike my old school which did their tests in house (and thus they didn't need to see every single  technique performed since they already knew I could do it).


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 2, 2019)

Congratulations on your progression.  The key to martial arts success is perseverance.  Just keep plugging along and you'll be fine.  Every dojo and style has their own rank and promotion requirements.  Have fun with it.


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## dvcochran (Mar 2, 2019)

That is very good news. I encourage you not to get too distracted by the old vs. new testing comparison. I have heard more than a few people get so hung up over it that it gets in the way of their progression. Do the work in front of you and you will go great. Remember, any test is what you make it. It can be memorable in a good or a bad way. Either can be a motivation, but I prefer the former.


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## KenpoMaster805 (Mar 3, 2019)

Great im Happy for u Congrats


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## Orion Nebula (Mar 4, 2019)

Thanks everyone! I am of course trying to block out elements of the past. There are several things we did differently in my former style that I can remember, and so far I've found it best to forget about it and focus on what's being asked of me now. 

One other question if anyone can chime in - what exactly does it mean when you are told that you have a good course of action? Twice I have ended up as the only student to come to class, each time with a different instructor. With the focus on me alone, I obviously get way more feedback on what I'm doing. When we do side snap kick drills, we usually do horse stance -> crossover step -> side snap kick. Repeat. Both instructors, during these two solo classes, somewhat incredulously told me that I have a good course of action for this series of movements. I know this is a positive statement, but what exactly does it mean?


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 4, 2019)

Glad to hear you're chugging along, ON. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your progress over time. There are a lot of possible reasons for the difference in testing - not the least of which is what the instructor likes to do (in the case of the in-school testing).

As for "good course of action"...I'm as lost as you are. Since they both used it, I'm guessing it's a turn of phrase they picked up from their instructor?


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## dvcochran (Mar 4, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> Thanks everyone! I am of course trying to block out elements of the past. There are several things we did differently in my former style that I can remember, and so far I've found it best to forget about it and focus on what's being asked of me now.
> 
> One other question if anyone can chime in - what exactly does it mean when you are told that you have a good course of action? Twice I have ended up as the only student to come to class, each time with a different instructor. With the focus on me alone, I obviously get way more feedback on what I'm doing. When we do side snap kick drills, we usually do horse stance -> crossover step -> side snap kick. Repeat. Both instructors, during these two solo classes, somewhat incredulously told me that I have a good course of action for this series of movements. I know this is a positive statement, but what exactly does it mean?


Great to hear that you are working hard. I am not familiar with the phrase but if I take it literally I can picture it meaning you motion for the crossover kick is fluid and correct. You body posture is in the right position and you "course" is straight for the "action", in the case the side kick. Just a WAG though. When you find out let us know.


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## JR 137 (Mar 4, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> Thanks everyone! I am of course trying to block out elements of the past. There are several things we did differently in my former style that I can remember, and so far I've found it best to forget about it and focus on what's being asked of me now.
> 
> One other question if anyone can chime in - what exactly does it mean when you are told that you have a good course of action? Twice I have ended up as the only student to come to class, each time with a different instructor. With the focus on me alone, I obviously get way more feedback on what I'm doing. When we do side snap kick drills, we usually do horse stance -> crossover step -> side snap kick. Repeat. Both instructors, during these two solo classes, somewhat incredulously told me that I have a good course of action for this series of movements. I know this is a positive statement, but what exactly does it mean?


I’m glad everything’s going well. The way to look at it all is just try to be a little better than you were last class. There’s going to be times when that’s hard to see. 

As far as the comment by both instructors, I’m not sure. Next time they say it, just ask.


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## Orion Nebula (Mar 11, 2019)

I've managed to forget to ask about the good course of action for a week straight. One of these nights...

So there's a hiking trail nearby that is described as moderate by hiking folks. It's about a 3 mile loop. It has steep sections, and to get to the trailhead, it's also a short walk up a steep forest road. I've hiked it before, but I usually have to stop for a break after maybe a minute on the road (and continue to take many breaks throughout the hike). 

The weather was nice today so I went out. For the first time ever, I walked up that road without stopping. On the trail itself, I did take breaks, but far fewer. On steep sections, my old pattern was usually to push myself uphill for maybe 40 seconds, stop, walk for 10 seconds, stop, walk 10 seconds, stop, and so on until I reached the top where I would often be so out of breath that I'd need to rest for 5 minutes. Today I needed maybe one quick break in the middle and once I hit the top, I'd keep walking (albeit slowly).

Karate has definitely improved my cardiovascular fitness as well as encouraged me to stop giving up when it's hard. I'm still getting wiped out in class, but it takes longer!


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 11, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I've managed to forget to ask about the good course of action for a week straight. One of these nights...
> 
> So there's a hiking trail nearby that is described as moderate by hiking folks. It's about a 3 mile loop. It has steep sections, and to get to the trailhead, it's also a short walk up a steep forest road. I've hiked it before, but I usually have to stop for a break after maybe a minute on the road (and continue to take many breaks throughout the hike).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update, ON - sounds like some nice progress! I think this is the kind of measurement that really matters. This means you're getting healthier, and will be able to do more, enjoy more, and live longer. Good work!


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## dvcochran (Mar 11, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I've managed to forget to ask about the good course of action for a week straight. One of these nights...
> 
> So there's a hiking trail nearby that is described as moderate by hiking folks. It's about a 3 mile loop. It has steep sections, and to get to the trailhead, it's also a short walk up a steep forest road. I've hiked it before, but I usually have to stop for a break after maybe a minute on the road (and continue to take many breaks throughout the hike).
> 
> ...


That great news. There is nothing better than confirmation! Keep up the good work.


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## drop bear (Mar 11, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I've managed to forget to ask about the good course of action for a week straight. One of these nights...
> 
> So there's a hiking trail nearby that is described as moderate by hiking folks. It's about a 3 mile loop. It has steep sections, and to get to the trailhead, it's also a short walk up a steep forest road. I've hiked it before, but I usually have to stop for a break after maybe a minute on the road (and continue to take many breaks throughout the hike).
> 
> ...



Good work. Now think diet.

As soon as that weight comes off every thing else gets easier.


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## Orion Nebula (Mar 11, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Good work. Now think diet.
> 
> As soon as that weight comes off every thing else gets easier.



I'm already on top of that. I've been working on the diet since before I start training. It's coming off slowly. Well, actually at a perfectly normal rate, but I keep comparing myself to a person I went to college with. They weighed a little more than me and started going for 4-5 mile walks in the morning before work and have changed nothing else but have lost twice the weight I have. Oh well.  Every journey is different.


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## JR 137 (Mar 11, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I'm already on top of that. I've been working on the diet since before I start training. It's coming off slowly. Well, actually at a perfectly normal rate, but I keep comparing myself to a person I went to college with. They weighed a little more than me and started going for 4-5 mile walks in the morning before work and have changed nothing else but have lost twice the weight I have. Oh well.  Every journey is different.


Make sure you’re being consistent with how, or better yet when you’re weighing yourself. Your weight can fluctuate quite a bit during the day. I weighed myself one morning the way I’ll say below. Ate my usual breakfast and drank my usual amount, and went to the doctor. I was 11.5 lbs heavier. Seriously. Not that I are and drank that much (Hot Pocket and almost a full Camelback bottle of water), but that, my clothes, shoes, keys, phone, etc. in my pockets and jacket on all added up.

Weigh yourself first thing in the morning after you’ve  gone to the bathroom, wearing nothing, and before you eat and shower. Your scale doesn’t even have to be extremely accurate, it just has to be consistent.

You get these jackass places like Weight Watchers that have people weigh in at whatever time during group meetings. Then people will wonder why their weight is all over the place. Stupid, and they know it. Completely inconsistent, but they’re out to make money.


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## jobo (Mar 12, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I'm already on top of that. I've been working on the diet since before I start training. It's coming off slowly. Well, actually at a perfectly normal rate, but I keep comparing myself to a person I went to college with. They weighed a little more than me and started going for 4-5 mile walks in the morning before work and have changed nothing else but have lost twice the weight I have. Oh well.  Every journey is different.


well he is clearly putting  more effort in ? you only early thirtysomething,  you should be able to go from slob to a semi reasonable athlete in 8 weeks. my sister who is 55 and hasn't exercised since she was 15. has been doing the couch to3k challenge and in six weeks she has gone from slowly jogging for 5x1 minete in3k to running the whole distance in half an hour and she has lost a ton of weight, she set her mind on doing a 10k race by late summer, I'm betting a) she does it, b) your still finding excuses by August


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## dvcochran (Mar 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> well he is clearly putting  more effort in ? you only early thirtysomething,  you should be able to go from slob to a semi reasonable athlete in 8 weeks. my sister who is 55 and hasn't exercised since she was 15. has been doing the couch to3k challenge and in six weeks she has gone from slowly jogging for 5x1 minete in3k to running the whole distance in half an hour and she has lost a ton of weight, she set her mind on doing a 10k race by late summer, I'm betting a) she does it, b) your still finding excuses by August


Do you know @Orion Nebula personally? If so, you MAY have an excuse for such an opinionated response. If you do not know him/her, that is just a totally stupid and arrogant response. Not helping at all. Dude, for all you know he/she has no legs.


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## JR 137 (Mar 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> well he is clearly putting  more effort in ? you only early thirtysomething,  you should be able to go from slob to a semi reasonable athlete in 8 weeks. my sister who is 55 and hasn't exercised since she was 15. has been doing the couch to3k challenge and in six weeks she has gone from slowly jogging for 5x1 minete in3k to running the whole distance in half an hour and she has lost a ton of weight, she set her mind on doing a 10k race by late summer, I'm betting a) she does it, b) your still finding excuses by August


Everyone’s different. And everyone is starting at a different place and trying to get somewhere else at a different pace. 

Can he do what your 55 year old sister did? Maybe. Can he? Maybe? Should he? Maybe.

Or maybe not. It’s his journey. He’s obviously started, which is far better than everyone who says they’ll start next week.


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## Orion Nebula (Mar 12, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Make sure you’re being consistent with how, or better yet when you’re weighing yourself. Your weight can fluctuate quite a bit during the day. I weighed myself one morning the way I’ll say below. Ate my usual breakfast and drank my usual amount, and went to the doctor. I was 11.5 lbs heavier. Seriously. Not that I are and drank that much (Hot Pocket and almost a full Camelback bottle of water), but that, my clothes, shoes, keys, phone, etc. in my pockets and jacket on all added up.
> 
> Weigh yourself first thing in the morning after you’ve  gone to the bathroom, wearing nothing, and before you eat and shower. Your scale doesn’t even have to be extremely accurate, it just has to be consistent.
> 
> You get these jackass places like Weight Watchers that have people weigh in at whatever time during group meetings. Then people will wonder why their weight is all over the place. Stupid, and they know it. Completely inconsistent, but they’re out to make money.



I totally do this already! But it's great advice!


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## jobo (Mar 12, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Everyone’s different. And everyone is starting at a different place and trying to get somewhere else at a different pace.
> 
> Can he do what your 55 year old sister did? Maybe. Can he? Maybe? Should he? Maybe.
> 
> Or maybe not. It’s his journey. He’s obviously started, which is far better than everyone who says they’ll start next week.


he is complaining that his progress isn't as fast as his friend, but then points out that his friend walk 10 times as far as he does in a week, most people could see that there may be a connection between effort and progress


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## dvcochran (Mar 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> he is complaining that his progress isn't as fast as his friend, but then points out that his friend walk 10 times as far as he does in a week, most people could see that there may be a connection between effort and progress


It doesn't work that way. Weight loss and fitness are not linear for all people across the board. If I knew why it is harder for some to lose weight I would be a trillionaire. Claims from Weight Watchers and the like that anyone can lose xxx pounds in xxx days is just that, an advertising claim, aka typically a lie.
I enjoy hearing about @Orion Nebula 's progress. It is inspiring. Whatever it takes for someone to stay motivated I encourage. Don't piss on the parade.


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## Orion Nebula (Mar 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> well he is clearly putting  more effort in ? you only early thirtysomething,  you should be able to go from slob to a semi reasonable athlete in 8 weeks. my sister who is 55 and hasn't exercised since she was 15. has been doing the couch to3k challenge and in six weeks she has gone from slowly jogging for 5x1 minete in3k to running the whole distance in half an hour and she has lost a ton of weight, she set her mind on doing a 10k race by late summer, I'm betting a) she does it, b) your still finding excuses by August



Yeah, ok, I'm sure a 340 pound person can become a semi-reasonable athlete in 8 weeks if they just work hard enough  Maybe on the moon or on the extreme weight loss show (is that even on anymore?). And who's finding excuses? I have literally made zero excuses in this thread. Just because I didn't accept your workout advice as the holy gospel doesn't make me some kind of loser that just doesn't want it enough, and just because I've only lost 16 pounds in 7ish weeks instead of whatever amazing number of pounds your sister lost also doesn't mean I am somehow less of a person. Maybe you're trying to be encouraging, but you're really just coming off as a jerk.



jobo said:


> he is complaining that his progress isn't as fast as his friend, but then points out that his friend walk 10 times as far as he does in a week, most people could see that there may be a connection between effort and progress



Maybe you should read that post again. I wasn't complaining, I was commenting on the stupidity of comparing myself to others when we obviously have very different metabolisms and other factors between us. They aren't walking 10 times more than me. Chances are we're walking about the same. They go for a 4 or 5 mile walk in the morning about 5 days per week and then sit on their butt at work and at home the rest of the day. Meanwhile, I'm doing martial arts 4 - 5 times per week plus hitting the gym a few times and getting in steps wherever I can. AND I'm on a diet. So I think you can probably understand why I might feel a bit cheesed off that my friend is making more progress on the scale, but I'm clearly making good effort and progressing at the pace my body will let me


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## jobo (Mar 12, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> It doesn't work that way. Weight loss and fitness are not linear for all people across the board. If I knew why it is harder for some than others to lose weight I would be a trillionaire. Claims from Weight Watchers and the like that anyone can lose xxx pounds in xxx days is just that, an advertising claim, aka typically a lie.


but we will never know, as it seems unlikely he will try and match his friend for effort, we wont find out if he weight lose would be  the same, but theres a near certainty it would be greater than it is now.

people on here are just enabling him, he is 32 for God's sake, I thought he was 62 the way he is taking,  but he put me right


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## dvcochran (Mar 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> but we will never know, as it seems unlikely he will try and match his friend for effort, we wont find out if he weight lose would be  the same, but theres a near certainty it would be greater than it is now.
> 
> people on here are just enabling him, he is 32 for God's sake, I thought he was 62 the way he is taking,  but he put me right


Enjoy you life while everything is still easy. Sooner or later it will change.


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## jobo (Mar 12, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> Yeah, ok, I'm sure a 340 pound person can become a semi-reasonable athlete in 8 weeks if they just work hard enough  Maybe on the moon or on the extreme weight loss show (is that even on anymore?). And who's finding excuses? I have literally made zero excuses in this thread. Just because I didn't accept your workout advice as the holy gospel doesn't make me some kind of loser that just doesn't want it enough, and just because I've only lost 16 pounds in 7ish weeks instead of whatever amazing number of pounds your sister lost also doesn't mean I am somehow less of a person. Maybe you're trying to be encouraging, but you're really just coming off as a jerk.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should read that post again. I wasn't complaining, I was commenting on the stupidity of comparing myself to others when we obviously have very different metabolisms and other factors between us. They aren't walking 10 times more than me. Chances are we're walking about the same. They go for a 4 or 5 mile walk in the morning about 5 days per week and then sit on their butt at work and at home the rest of the day. Meanwhile, I'm doing martial arts 4 - 5 times per week plus hitting the gym a few times and getting in steps wherever I can. AND I'm on a diet. So I think you can probably understand why I might feel a bit cheesed off that my friend is making more progress on the scale, but I'm clearly making good effort and progressing at the pace my body will let me


theres lots of 300 lb athletes about, top class athletes, semi reasonable is a lot easier to acheive


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## jobo (Mar 12, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> Yeah, ok, I'm sure a 340 pound person can become a semi-reasonable athlete in 8 weeks if they just work hard enough  Maybe on the moon or on the extreme weight loss show (is that even on anymore?). And who's finding excuses? I have literally made zero excuses in this thread. Just because I didn't accept your workout advice as the holy gospel doesn't make me some kind of loser that just doesn't want it enough, and just because I've only lost 16 pounds in 7ish weeks instead of whatever amazing number of pounds your sister lost also doesn't mean I am somehow less of a person. Maybe you're trying to be encouraging, but you're really just coming off as a jerk.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should read that post again. I wasn't complaining, I was commenting on the stupidity of comparing myself to others when we obviously have very different metabolisms and other factors between us. They aren't walking 10 times more than me. Chances are we're walking about the same. They go for a 4 or 5 mile walk in the morning about 5 days per week and then sit on their butt at work and at home the rest of the day. Meanwhile, I'm doing martial arts 4 - 5 times per week plus hitting the gym a few times and getting in steps wherever I can. AND I'm on a diet. So I think you can probably understand why I might feel a bit cheesed off that my friend is making more progress on the scale, but I'm clearly making good effort and progressing at the pace my body will let me


so your friend is walking 25 miles a week, how far are you walking ? the last thread I read 2 miles nearly killed you or was it three .


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## DocWard (Mar 12, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> Yeah, ok, I'm sure a 340 pound person can become a semi-reasonable athlete in 8 weeks if they just work hard enough  Maybe on the moon or on the extreme weight loss show (is that even on anymore?). And who's finding excuses? I have literally made zero excuses in this thread. Just because I didn't accept your workout advice as the holy gospel doesn't make me some kind of loser that just doesn't want it enough, and just because I've only lost 16 pounds in 7ish weeks instead of whatever amazing number of pounds your sister lost also doesn't mean I am somehow less of a person. Maybe you're trying to be encouraging, but you're really just coming off as a jerk.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should read that post again. I wasn't complaining, I was commenting on the stupidity of comparing myself to others when we obviously have very different metabolisms and other factors between us. They aren't walking 10 times more than me. Chances are we're walking about the same. They go for a 4 or 5 mile walk in the morning about 5 days per week and then sit on their butt at work and at home the rest of the day. Meanwhile, I'm doing martial arts 4 - 5 times per week plus hitting the gym a few times and getting in steps wherever I can. AND I'm on a diet. So I think you can probably understand why I might feel a bit cheesed off that my friend is making more progress on the scale, but I'm clearly making good effort and progressing at the pace my body will let me



"Only lost 16 pounds in 7ish weeks?" Despite what... certain members... try to tell you, if you ask your doctor, a nutritionist or other medical professionals in the field, that is considered a healthy rate of weight loss. I won't tell you what worked for me, or for anyone I know, because I don't know you or what might work for your metabolism among other things. I simply won't be that presumptuous. I will say this: Keep doing what you're doing. Remember, you're in it for the long haul, and need to set healthy habits that you can maintain. If I am going to be guilty of "enabling" you, it is going to be doing what I can to enable you to keep making progress.

At this stage, DON'T compare yourself to others, for purposes of progress. DON'T give in to frustration if and when you plateau. DO listen to your doctor, and if you have one, a nutritionist. DO push forward when you want to stop, unless you're in pain. Remember what Mia Hamm said (and others before her): "The vision of a champion is bent over, drenched in sweat, at the point of exhaustion, when nobody else is looking." Oh, and don't listen to Jobo.


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## DocWard (Mar 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> theres lots of 300 lb athletes about, top class athletes, semi reasonable is a lot easier to acheive



Yes there are, and not a damn one got there in eight weeks.


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## drop bear (Mar 13, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Enjoy you life while everything is still easy. Sooner or later it will change.



I am 45 and agree that weight loss is almost always effort in results out.

So the friend is almost guaranteed to be doing something OP isn't.

My guess is diet will be high in sugar.

Now we can either talk about it like adults or we can pat OP on the head and tell him he is doing the best he can but unfortunately genetics.

Otherwise I would still suggest weights over walking at 150kg. High intensity interval. Cos you just have more control over what you are doing.


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## Orion Nebula (Mar 13, 2019)

jobo said:


> so your friend is walking 25 miles a week, how far are you walking ? the last thread I read 2 miles nearly killed you or was it three .



I literally put in Sunday's post that I hiked 3+ miles on Sunday. How the heck would 2 miles of walking nearly kill me? Maybe you're thinking of someone else, but I never once said that a certain mileage of walking nearly killed me, wore me out, or otherwise had any effect on me. I did say that walking fast makes my lower leg muscles tighten up and eventually start hurting - maybe you're thinking of that? And if you really want to know, I walk anywhere from 20 to 30 miles per week. Depends on the weather and my schedule, and I typically walk a good deal more in the summer.



DocWard said:


> "Only lost 16 pounds in 7ish weeks?" Despite what... certain members... try to tell you, if you ask your doctor, a nutritionist or other medical professionals in the field, that is considered a healthy rate of weight loss. I won't tell you what worked for me, or for anyone I know, because I don't know you or what might work for your metabolism among other things. I simply won't be that presumptuous. I will say this: Keep doing what you're doing. Remember, you're in it for the long haul, and need to set healthy habits that you can maintain. If I am going to be guilty of "enabling" you, it is going to be doing what I can to enable you to keep making progress.
> 
> At this stage, DON'T compare yourself to others, for purposes of progress. DON'T give in to frustration if and when you plateau. DO listen to your doctor, and if you have one, a nutritionist. DO push forward when you want to stop, unless you're in pain. Remember what Mia Hamm said (and others before her): "The vision of a champion is bent over, drenched in sweat, at the point of exhaustion, when nobody else is looking." Oh, and don't listen to Jobo.



Thank you - I do know that I'm losing weight at a perfectly normal rate, but it does get frustrating when people I know seemingly shed more pounds with ease. But I do try to remember that I am me and they are them! But I am in this for the long haul - if I was going to quit, it would have been in the first two weeks or so! I also picked a diet approach that I find sustainable, and obviously it's working since both the number of the scale and my body are shrinking (hurray for looser clothes).


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## JR 137 (Mar 13, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I literally put in Sunday's post that I hiked 3+ miles on Sunday. How the heck would 2 miles of walking nearly kill me? Maybe you're thinking of someone else, but I never once said that a certain mileage of walking nearly killed me, wore me out, or otherwise had any effect on me. I did say that walking fast makes my lower leg muscles tighten up and eventually start hurting - maybe you're thinking of that? And if you really want to know, I walk anywhere from 20 to 30 miles per week. Depends on the weather and my schedule, and I typically walk a good deal more in the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you - I do know that I'm losing weight at a perfectly normal rate, but it does get frustrating when people I know seemingly shed more pounds with ease. But I do try to remember that I am me and they are them! But I am in this for the long haul - if I was going to quit, it would have been in the first two weeks or so! I also picked a diet approach that I find sustainable, and obviously it's working since both the number of the scale and my body are shrinking (hurray for looser clothes).


A lot of people lose a lot of weight in a relatively short time. They do some very restrictive diet and possibly add a ton of exercise. That’s all fine and good (sometimes anyway) except for one thing - they usually put it back on and then some down the road. Why? Typically the diet is too restrictive and the level exercise is too demanding to be sustainable.

I don’t know what you’re eating. I don’t know anything about you that you haven’t written here. All I can say is make changes that you can sustain far beyond hitting a number by a certain date. If that takes longer, so be it.if you’re trying to get into a wedding dress for July  do what you’ve got to do to get there. If you’ve got some sort of competition coming up, do what you’ve got to do. I’m assuming those aren’t your goals. 

Just like in MA training, forget everyone else. Their successes and failures don’t have any impact on yours.

And forget Jobo. What he’s saying here isn’t close to his level of idiocy displayed elsewhere.


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## dvcochran (Mar 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> I am 45 and agree that weight loss is almost always effort in results out.
> 
> So the friend is almost guaranteed to be doing something OP isn't.
> 
> ...


I cannot disagree with this. If I know someone is sloughing off then I will push them harder. Call it a hunch bit I do not think this is @Orion Nebula. He/she is making great strides and pushing themselves with some quality exercise and lifestyle activities. No whining, no why not me kind of statements. Should they observe others also trying to lose weight to compare and analyze? Absolutely. I will give he/she the benefit of a doubt until I have a reason not to. Not enabling. I could not be farther from that kind of person. 
Again, unless you personally know them you are making broad statements with no foundation.


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## dvcochran (Mar 13, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I literally put in Sunday's post that I hiked 3+ miles on Sunday. How the heck would 2 miles of walking nearly kill me? Maybe you're thinking of someone else, but I never once said that a certain mileage of walking nearly killed me, wore me out, or otherwise had any effect on me. I did say that walking fast makes my lower leg muscles tighten up and eventually start hurting - maybe you're thinking of that? And if you really want to know, I walk anywhere from 20 to 30 miles per week. Depends on the weather and my schedule, and I typically walk a good deal more in the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you - I do know that I'm losing weight at a perfectly normal rate, but it does get frustrating when people I know seemingly shed more pounds with ease. But I do try to remember that I am me and they are them! But I am in this for the long haul - if I was going to quit, it would have been in the first two weeks or so! I also picked a diet approach that I find sustainable, and obviously it's working since both the number of the scale and my body are shrinking (hurray for looser clothes).


Back in my 20's when I was competing at a very high level I was training 5-6 days/week, 4 hours/day, and working a 40 hour job. I watched my diet closely from an athletes perspective (nothing to do with weight loss/gain) and hydration was paramount. There were many, many times I lost 5-6 pounds in a day, but it would be back in 24 hours. It had to be water weight the way it fluctuated. I have always done this, not sure why. It was really frustrating when I wrestled and was needing to make weight.  
I have followed your posts closely. @jobo clearly has not.


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## Yokozuna514 (Mar 13, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I literally put in Sunday's post that I hiked 3+ miles on Sunday. How the heck would 2 miles of walking nearly kill me? Maybe you're thinking of someone else, but I never once said that a certain mileage of walking nearly killed me, wore me out, or otherwise had any effect on me. I did say that walking fast makes my lower leg muscles tighten up and eventually start hurting - maybe you're thinking of that? And if you really want to know, I walk anywhere from 20 to 30 miles per week. Depends on the weather and my schedule, and I typically walk a good deal more in the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you - I do know that I'm losing weight at a perfectly normal rate, but it does get frustrating when people I know seemingly shed more pounds with ease. But I do try to remember that I am me and they are them! But I am in this for the long haul - if I was going to quit, it would have been in the first two weeks or so! I also picked a diet approach that I find sustainable, and obviously it's working since both the number of the scale and my body are shrinking (hurray for looser clothes).


Don't worry about the 'noise'.   What I mean about 'noise' is the comments from people that are not positively supporting your effort to change your life.   It will take the time it takes.  This is your journey and no one elses so you are correct to not compare yourself to your friend.   If he is shedding weight on the scale at a quicker rate than you are, then it is worth the listen to see how he is able to do it.  Maybe you can adapt it to your journey and see some quicker results but the most important thing is that you stay focused on what YOU can do.  

Sure there are tons of examples of people that are in your weight range and have lost the weight quickly.  As many have stated weight loss is a question of not only eating better and healthier but eating less.   Not everyone has the discipline to do that initially and require assistance.   Most of the dramatic weight loss stories that I have personally heard came from people that had a gastric bypass.   That, to me, is an extreme measure but I won't question the decision that people make for themselves.   

I've lost 40 lbs since I started training 10 years ago.  My body has been changing slowly since the beginning but outwardly, it was not a straight line downwards.  The first 15 lbs came from the increase in exercise.   I lost it within 1 year and plateaued for the longest time.   I hadn't changed my diet yet, in fact, I found that the increased exercise allowed me to eat whatever I wanted whenever I wanted without putting the weight back on.   The next 15 lbs came off by reducing my beer intake .   Reducing the quantity and switching to a light beer helped me get to the next plateau.   The only thing left for me to adjust was my food intake.   That's how I've been able to lose the additional 10 lbs but I have a ways to go to get to my goal.  My story is far from being a dramatic weight loss story but to me it has been rather painless as well.   I continue to be encouraged as my health has probably never been better and I am more conscious of what eat and drink which is to me a positive switch in lifestyle direction.  

Don't worry about the noise Orion Nebula.   Do what you can do and keep moving in the direction you want to go.  If you pick up better ways to meet your goal along the way, more power to you, adopt and adapt.   Good luck.


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## jobo (Mar 13, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I cannot disagree with this. If I know someone is sloughing off then I will push them harder. Call it a hunch bit I do not think this is @Orion Nebula. He/she is making great strides and pushing themselves with some quality exercise and lifestyle activities. No whining, no why not me kind of statements. Should they observe others also trying to lose weight to compare and analyze? Absolutely. I will give he/she the benefit of a doubt until I have a reason not to. Not enabling. I could not be farther from that kind of person.
> Again, unless you personally know them you are making broad statements with no foundation.


well you can make some pretty accurate assessment about people from there appearance or in this case a persons description of there appearance. if someone is 150/ 200 lbs over weight, excluding some very rare genetic abnormality, then they are either lazy or greedy or probably both, and severely lacking in self respect, or they wouldn't have let themself get that way. now if people are happy that way fair enough,

 but very few of them are and have a history of starting diets/ exercise and after modest improvements give up and start sitting on the couch, stuffing cheeseburgers  again. so we can add lack of motorvation/ self discipline to the list.

there not fat by some unfortunate accident, there fat by virtue of significant personality flaws, and unless they manage to change their personality, they will remain fat until they pass on prematurely usually from heart problems.

I had a fat girl friend, she was 50 lbs over weight when I met her, she said she was on a diet, so i went out with her on the proviso she lost weight, 5 years later and literally  100s of diet attempts she was 100 lb over weight. I'd spent much of that time supporting her efforts, going to weight watchers with her, encouraging her to go for long country walks, i bought her hiking shoes and a mountain bike. before it finally occurred to meg that it was pointless, she was just lazy and greedy and lacking in self respect and  wasnt going to change that so I finished the relationship

. she said " your finishing with coz I'm fat arnt you " I said no" I'm finishing with as your the type of person who is fat" and I'm tired of trying to help someone who doesn't want to put the effort in to be a better person." but I've got an eating disorder " she said "exactly your eating disorder is that your greedy and lazy"
and ironically  a doctor

the final straw was when, she got stuck in the bath because if her fatness, as one , getting a250 lbs soapy fat girl out of the bath nearly killed me, she wouldn't let me ring the fire brigade for some reason. and I saw my future as looking after a self causing invalid for the rest of my life,  no thanks, no more fat girls for me


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## jobo (Mar 13, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Yes there are, and not a damn one got there in eight weeks.


which wasnt my point, but 8 weeks is more than enough for a 32 yo to gain a reasonable standard of fitness to, it would take 8 to ten times longer if he was 52.

it wont be enough time to loose all his weight, but there are over weight fit people around, lots of them in sports were body weight is an advantage. which was my point,  some of these eat incredible amounts to sustain their fatness,  as their fitness tries to strip it away


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## DocWard (Mar 13, 2019)

jobo said:


> which wasnt my point, but 8 weeks is more than enough for a 32 yo to gain a reasonable standard of fitness to, it would take 8 to ten times longer if he was 52.
> 
> it wont be enough time to loose all his weight, but there are over weight fit people around, lots of them in sports were body weight is an advantage. which was my point,  some of these eat incredible amounts to sustain their fatness,  as their fitness tries to strip it away



Let's be clear as to what your point has been. It has been to personally attack Orion Nebula's efforts, for reasons known only to yourself.

ON described how much improvement he has made as to his cardiovascular health, being able to attack hiking trails he never could before, as well as get through his karate classes more successfully. You feel the need to attack him because his progress doesn't seem to fit with what you think it should be, apparently based upon your sister's C25K program.

When the subject of weight was brought up, he acknowledged the folly of using a friend as a yardstick in his progress, when his progress has been what most professionals in the field recommend their patients strive for as being healthy and sustainable. Yet, you feel the need to attack him and belittle him for not making the same progress as his friend, making blanket accusations for no reason and with no rational basis.

Since you've taken pains to inform us of your sister's weight issues and recent success and your former girlfriend's weight issues and lack of success in unnecessary detail, perhaps your personal experiences color your thoughts on the issue and you need to seek the help of a professional in dealing with them, so you aren't attempting to berate others and accusing them of making excuses when they are clearly doing just the opposite.


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## dvcochran (Mar 13, 2019)

jobo said:


> well you can make some pretty accurate assessment about people from there appearance or in this case a persons description of there appearance. if someone is 150/ 200 lbs over weight, excluding some very rare genetic abnormality, then they are either lazy or greedy or probably both, and severely lacking in self respect, or they wouldn't have let themself get that way. now if people are happy that way fair enough,
> 
> but very few of them are and have a history of starting diets/ exercise and after modest improvements give up and start sitting on the couch, stuffing cheeseburgers  again. so we can add lack of motorvation/ self discipline to the list.
> 
> ...


Well, that is funny in a very sad and unusual way. But you have a very, very sad and unusual style. Maybe everyone across the pond is that way from my perspective. But I would not put my opinion of you on anyone else so I do not think so. I will leave your flawless self to you own devices.


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## jobo (Mar 13, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Let's be clear as to what your point has been. It has been to personally attack Orion Nebula's efforts, for reasons known only to yourself.
> 
> ON described how much improvement he has made as to his cardiovascular health, being able to attack hiking trails he never could before, as well as get through his karate classes more successfully. You feel the need to attack him because his progress doesn't seem to fit with what you think it should be, apparently based upon your sister's C25K program.
> 
> ...


ii haven't attacked him personally,  I've attacked lazy greedy people with no self discipline in general. its self inflicted they dont deserve tea and sympathy any more than junkies do.

your just enabling them by giving excuses as to why they can't get of their rear end and sort it out.

if he managed to walk three miles he should have gone for 10, effort and reward, that may actually start to make a differance


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 13, 2019)

jobo said:


> ii haven't attacked him personally,  I've attacked lazy greedy people with no self discipline in general. its self inflicted they dont deserve tea and sympathy any more than junkies do.
> 
> your just enabling them by giving excuses as to why they can't get of their rear end and sort it out.
> 
> if he managed to walk three miles he should have gone for 10, effort and reward, that may actually start to make a differance



It's been clear for a long time that your compassion for humanity knows definite bounds. Sadly, your ignorance of addiction and mental illness doesn't seem to.


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## jobo (Mar 13, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's been clear for a long time that your compassion for humanity knows definite bounds. Sadly, your ignorance of addiction and mental illness doesn't seem to.


ok if your saying he is mentally ill,I've got a ha'penny of sympathy, but unless he is in mortal fear of alien abduction that does stop him exercising by going for a walk


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## dvcochran (Mar 13, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's been clear for a long time that your compassion for humanity knows definite bounds. Sadly, your ignorance of addiction and mental illness doesn't seem to.


There is ignorance and there is being stupid. @jobo is successfully being both at the same time. I am sure he/she will say it is multi-tasking and deem it a success.


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## jobo (Mar 13, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> There is ignorance and there is being stupid. @jobo is successfully being both at the same time. I am sure he/she will say it is multi-tasking and deem it a success.



theres a guy goes in the park, he in in his 70s he has just had two hip replacements and a triple heart bypass and walking on crutches,  he does two laps which is about 2 and a half miles every day as he is determined to get well, for him I have admiration, for a 32 to, that struggling to do the same, not a lot


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 13, 2019)

jobo said:


> ok if your saying he is mentally ill,I've got a ha'penny of sympathy, but unless he is in mortal fear of alien abduction that does stop him exercising by going for a walk



I'm saying addiction, which comes in many forms, is something about which your understanding is, clearly, somewhere between zilch and nada.


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## jobo (Mar 13, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'm saying addiction, which comes in many forms, is something about which your understanding is, clearly, somewhere between zilch and nada.


well he needs to get the type that addicts him to exercise, to be honest try to pass of greed as a cheeseburger addictionis enabling in the worse possible way, what about personal responsibility and rectifying past bad choices. seems no one needs that any more ?


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## Orion Nebula (Mar 13, 2019)

I'm about 80% certain that Jobo is just screwing with us. Few people could be so dense. First I can't walk two miles without it almost killing me. Then I'm a loser because I only hiked 3 miles instead of 10. Now I'm back to not even being able walk 2 and a half miles around a park. Well what is it? Can I walk or can't I? I think he's just saying whatever comes to his mind as the most annoying. Either that or he was bullied as a child for something that he thought he should have had better control over, and thus it has turned him into a grumpy bugger. It may have involved cheeseburgers since he's fixated on that.


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## DocWard (Mar 13, 2019)

jobo said:


> ii haven't attacked him personally,  I've attacked lazy greedy people with no self discipline in general. its self inflicted they dont deserve tea and sympathy any more than junkies do.
> 
> your just enabling them by giving excuses as to why they can't get of their rear end and sort it out.
> 
> if he managed to walk three miles he should have gone for 10, effort and reward, that may actually start to make a differance



I'm seldom completely dumbfounded by someone's statements, but you come close. Make no bones about it, you absolutely have attacked his _efforts_ as you continue to do even in this post. You are either being willingly obtuse in denying it, or blatantly lying.

And what, pray tell, am I--are we--enabling? Continued weight loss? Increasing physical fitness? Long term lifestyle changes that won't be cut short by frustration or injury by the infantile "go hard or go home" mindset you suggest? I will admit to all of those things. The question I have for you is, why would you try to sabotage them with your commentary? Are you jealous of his success? Do you really know so little that you actually believe the tripe you spew? Or are you simply a useless troll who gets his jollies by belittling the efforts of others?



Dirty Dog said:


> It's been clear for a long time that your compassion for humanity knows definite bounds. Sadly, your ignorance of addiction and mental illness doesn't seem to.



We sparred a little on another thread, and I made a comment or two I now regret. For that you have my apologies. Your insight here makes me wish to tip my hat to you, Sir.


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## jobo (Mar 13, 2019)

DocWard said:


> I'm seldom completely dumbfounded by someone's statements, but you come close. Make no bones about it, you absolutely have attacked his _efforts_ as you continue to do even in this post. You are either being willingly obtuse in denying it, or blatantly lying.
> 
> And what, pray tell, am I--are we--enabling? Continued weight loss? Increasing physical fitness? Long term lifestyle changes that won't be cut short by frustration or injury by the infantile "go hard or go home" mindset you suggest? I will admit to all of those things. The question I have for you is, why would you try to sabotage them with your commentary? Are you jealous of his success? Do you really know so little that you actually believe the tripe you spew? Or are you simply a useless troll who gets his jollies by belittling the efforts of others?
> 
> ...


your giving him excuses for failure, the chances of him succeeding are low, if success is he returns to a hehealthy weight and stays there , nearly all obese people start diet exercise regimes  and either quit before they make any notable progress or balloon back up againn in the very rare cases that 5hey do succeed in any notable progress.

the reason for that is ? that they lack will power, which is the same reason they got fat in the first place, it's impossible to break free of the cycle unless they actually develop some self control? or get a gastric band, which can easily be defeated by a putting choc bars or cheese burgers in a food blender and drinking them
? how do theyget self control ? well one good way is learning to go through the pain barrier in exercise, if there doing three  miles  when they could really push themselves and do 6 or even 10, then they are learning self control, if they quit as soon as it uncomfortable, then there still a quiter and they will go on to fail


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## Orion Nebula (Mar 13, 2019)

jobo said:


> your giving him excuses for failure, the chances of him succeeding are low, if success is he returns to a hehealthy weight and stays there , nearly all obese people start diet exercise regimes  and either quit before they make any notable progress or balloon back up againn in the very rare cases that 5hey do succeed in any notable progress.
> 
> the reason for that is ? that they lack will power, which is the same reason they got fat in the first place, it's impossible to break free of the cycle unless they actually develop some self control? or get a gastric band, which can easily be defeated by a putting choc bars or cheese burgers in a food blender and drinking them
> ? how do theyget self control ? well one good way is learning to go through the pain barrier in exercise, if there doing three  miles  when they could really push themselves and do 6 or even 10, then they are learning self control, if they quit as soon as it uncomfortable, then there still a quiter and they will go on to fail



Wow. Just wow. You are so misinformed that it's sad. Maybe check out what science has to say about why people regain the weight they lost (hint: will power plays only a small role, and not in the way you've described):

Why do dieters regain weight?


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## jobo (Mar 13, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> Wow. Just wow. You are so misinformed that it's sad. Maybe check out what science has to say about why people regain the weight they lost (hint: will power plays only a small role, and not in the way you've described):
> 
> Why do dieters regain weight?


that's just say that people with really poor will power and people with only poor will power have much the same iut comes, where as people with strong will power have much better outcomes, that probably true  for most of life to be honest. but then people with strong will power wouldn't have got fat in the first place, so it's a moot point


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## DocWard (Mar 13, 2019)

jobo said:


> your giving him excuses for failure,...



Hogwash. I defy you to show me _one_ thing stated by me here that would be an "excuse for failure."



> the chances of him succeeding are low, if success is he returns to a hehealthy weight and stays there , nearly all obese people start diet exercise regimes  and either quit before they make any notable progress or balloon back up againn in the very rare cases that 5hey do succeed in any notable progress.



Yes, and your recommendations are a recipe for disaster for anyone attempting to lose weight and get in shape based on everything I have been taught, everything I have read, my own personal experience and the experience of others I have observed. Congratulations, I've seldom seen someone so thoroughly wrong.



> the reason for that is ? that they lack will power, which is the same reason they got fat in the first place, it's impossible to break free of the cycle unless they actually develop some self control?



You mean as in make steady, sustainable modifications to their lifestyle, develop good eating habits that are not unrealistic instead of the latest Paleo-Keto-South Beach-Atkins-Zone Diet of the Week, and build up strength and endurance over time, doing something they enjoy in a supportive environment and in a manner that is unlikely to cause burn out, or worse, injury? Oh, no, of course not, you mean to do just those things that can create problems, as can be shown here:



> how do theyget self control ? well one good way is learning to go through the pain barrier in exercise, if there doing three  miles  when they could really push themselves and do 6 or even 10, then they are learning self control, if they quit as soon as it uncomfortable, then there still a quiter and they will go on to fail



Sure, push that six or ten miles when one is used to doing three. When the overuse injuries spring up, and they will, sit and wonder why as the conditioning gains go away and the weight piles on. Heck, who doesn't love a good stress fracture or some good old tendinitis?

If there is a bright side to this, it is that thanks to others, some good information is getting out there, and he recognizes you for the troll you are.


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Hogwash. I defy you to show me _one_ thing stated by me here that would be an "excuse for failure."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


your patting him  on the head for not putting much effort in, and then throwing all the excuses,  possibly excuses you use yourself, as to why he shouldn't push himself, there the excuses for his impending  failure

again he is 32, he will heal quickly and improve quickly, a ten mile walk will not cause him long term injuries , they just wont, but it will speed up his fitness gain and his weight loss.

when he fails and if he carries on with the same mentality he will, then you and the others that make up his supportive network will be partly responsible, for encouraging his " I'm not putting much effort into this" attitude.

he will post his near non existent process  for a short while and then disappear  when his improvements do. it's happened with multiple posters over the last couple of years

its indicative of the modern world that people expect results with out putting total effort into things, then when they inevitably  fail, they develop  a victim mentality. and start blaming anything they can think off, except there own lack of dedication.

theres no science on gaining fitness that doesn't involve" progressive overload",  with the emphasis on OVERLOAD, there little benifit in progressive underload


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## JR 137 (Mar 14, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> Few people could be so dense.


Congratulations, you’ve just met one of the few. And the proud  His idiocy knows no bounds. He’s the Rainman, minus the ability to count cards. Or anything else for that matter.


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## JR 137 (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> your giving him excuses for failure, the chances of him succeeding are low, if success is he returns to a hehealthy weight and stays there , nearly all obese people start diet exercise regimes  and either quit before they make any notable progress or balloon back up againn in the very rare cases that 5hey do succeed in any notable progress.
> 
> the reason for that is ? that they lack will power, which is the same reason they got fat in the first place, it's impossible to break free of the cycle unless they actually develop some self control? or get a gastric band, which can easily be defeated by a putting choc bars or cheese burgers in a food blender and drinking them
> ? how do theyget self control ? well one good way is learning to go through the pain barrier in exercise, if there doing three  miles  when they could really push themselves and do 6 or even 10, then they are learning self control, if they quit as soon as it uncomfortable, then there still a quiter and they will go on to fail


You point out a lot of alleged excuses. What’s your excuse for failure of being able to communicate like a normal human being?

How much did you walk or run today? How much did you lift?


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Congratulations, you’ve just met one of the few. And the proud  His idiocy knows no bounds. He’s pretty much the Rainman.





JR 137 said:


> You point out a lot of alleged excuses. What’s your excuse for failure of being able to communicate like a normal human being?
> 
> How much did you walk or run today?



it's still mid afternoon here, im off for a 10 mile return walk to the woods, a three mile jog and a quick  30 mins work out on the assault course, it's one of my rest days, so not to heavy

what about you ?


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## JR 137 (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> it's still mid afternoon here, im off for a 10 mile return walk to the woods, a three mile jog and a quick  30 mins work out on the assault course, it's one of my rest days, so not to heavy
> 
> what about you ?


Should be 20 mile walk, 6 mile jog, and one hour assault course. Stop making excuses.

Me? Back rehab exercises. The 12 rounds on the heavy bag or until I drop, whichever is longer. No excuses.


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 14, 2019)

Regarding diet: hunger is one of the most fundamental and powerful drives for any living creature. I have trouble falling asleep at night if I'm at all hungry.

My whole life I've eaten whatever I want, however much of it I want, whenever I want. When I was a kid I used to sometimes gorge myself past reasonable limits just on general principle. I've had times in my life when I subsisted largely on junk food. These days I mostly eat healthy stuff, but I have no qualms about grabbing a dessert if I'm in the mood.

And I've been skinny for most of my life. (Sometimes well below healthy ranges - I remember one year in my late twenties when I was 6'4" and 155 pounds. It took some work to get my weight back up to 165.) As I've gotten older (from my late 40s into my 50s) I've put on some weight, but I'm still well within a healthy range.

Exercise: My first 17 years or so I spent most of my time sitting with my books. About the only regular exercise I got was walking to school. From age 18 on I've been involved with martial arts, but the quality and intensity of my training has varied greatly. I've had some years where I worked my *** off, some years where I did almost nothing, some years where my exercise regimen was moderately intense, and some years where it was consistent but mild. My strength and cardio varied significantly according to how much I was doing, but my weight didn't.

If I were to point at my friends and family members who struggle with obesity and declare that their weight was just due to a fundamental character flaw then I would be demonstrating extreme obliviousness.

Some of them who are trying to maintain a healthy diet complain that they are hungry all the time. I start to get cranky if I'm hungry for just a few hours. I can't imagine that I would do well if I had to restrain from eating while feeling that way day in and day out.

Some of them don't exercise as much as they should, but some of them do. My wife works out 1.5 - 2 hours per day 5 - 6 days per week, which is more than I'm doing at the moment. (And she does that while also dealing with the symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis which include severe fatigue.) She still struggles with her weight.

I don't know all the physiological causes why maintaining a certain weight is easier or harder for different individuals. What is clear is that it can require a lot more hard work and willpower for one person to maintain a healthy weight than another.


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Should be 20 mile walk, 6 mile jog, and one hour assault course. Stop making excuses.
> 
> Me? Back rehab exercises. The 12 rounds on the heavy bag or until I drop, whichever is longer. No excuses.


the dog can't do the distance any more. he is 14. BA ck in theday, we would go out all day and cover an easy 20 miles or 30 off road mountain biking. so I augment it with hill sprints now.

yes youve the " till you drop " attitude that's all I'm suggesting as an exercise atttude


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## JR 137 (Mar 14, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Regarding diet: hunger is one of the most fundamental and powerful drives for any living creature. I have trouble falling asleep at night if I'm at all hungry.
> 
> My whole life I've eaten whatever I want, however much of it I want, whenever I want. When I was a kid I used to sometimes gorge myself past reasonable limits just on general principle. I've had times in my life when I subsisted largely on junk food. These days I mostly eat healthy stuff, but I have no qualms about grabbing a dessert if I'm in the mood.
> 
> ...


Lots of different physiological reasons. Hormones and the organs/glands that produce them play a big role. Thyroid seems to be a big one. There are hormones associated with hunger and satiety. People have different levels of them as well.

If someone could figure out an exact physiological formula, he/she would probably make Bill Gates look like a welfare case.


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Lots of different physiological reasons. Hormones and the organs/glands that produce them play a big role. Thyroid seems to be a big one. There are hormones associated with hunger and satiety. People have different levels of them as well.
> 
> If someone could figure out an exact physiological formula, he/she would probably make Bill Gates look like a welfare case.


I've got


JR 137 said:


> Lots of different physiological reasons. Hormones and the organs/glands that produce them play a big role. Thyroid seems to be a big one. There are hormones associated with hunger and satiety. People have different levels of them as well.
> 
> If someone could figure out an exact physiological formula, he/she would probably make Bill Gates look like a welfare case.


I've got a formulation, eat less calories than you burn, if you travel to an impoverished country, you be suprised how few if them have thyroid problems, or it could be that they have to walk 10 miles to get clean water and cant?? send out for a take away. fatness is a first world life style issue, unless you have?? actually got a rare medical condition and even they can't turn non existent carbs in to fat


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Regarding diet: hunger is one of the most fundamental and powerful drives for any living creature. I have trouble falling asleep at night if I'm at all hungry.
> 
> My whole life I've eaten whatever I want, however much of it I want, whenever I want. When I was a kid I used to sometimes gorge myself past reasonable limits just on general principle. I've had times in my life when I subsisted largely on junk food. These days I mostly eat healthy stuff, but I have no qualms about grabbing a dessert if I'm in the mood.
> 
> ...


eating when your hungry is what your supposed to do, I'm mean screaming belly churning hungry, the problem is people eat when there not hungry just peckish, and continue eating when they no longer are, if people really can't control their urges,  until they experience hunger,  then fill up on something that is high in bulk and low in calories, like veg for instance,no one ever got fat eating raw carrots, even better eat celery,  which reputable consumes more calories in the digestion  process than it gives..


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## DocWard (Mar 14, 2019)

I am simply nonplussed by your response, in so many ways.



jobo said:


> your patting him  on the head for not putting much effort in, and then throwing all the excuses,  possibly excuses you use yourself, as to why he shouldn't push himself, there the excuses for his impending  failure



Way to not answer the question, and attempt a fallacious diversion in the process, more of a red herring than an actual _ad hominem_ in my opinion. I've congratulated him on his progress. I've encouraged him to keep pushing, keep sweating and to not give into frustration. Otherwise, I've simply been working to dispel the nonsense you utter here. Oddly, I've not seen him making "excuses." On the contrary, he has been mentioning his success.



> again he is 32, he will heal quickly and improve quickly, a ten mile walk will not cause him long term injuries , they just wont, but it will speed up his fitness gain and his weight loss.



Ten mile walks, even on flat ground, if you leap right into it, can cause a number of overuse injuries, from shin splints and even runner's knee, to bursitis and tendinitis. Any physical trainer who tells you otherwise is not competent. All of those injuries I mention, if serious enough, require down time to heal, which is counterproductive. Age has exactly zero to do with it.



> when he fails and if he carries on with the same mentality he will, then you and the others that make up his supportive network will be partly responsible, for encouraging his " I'm not putting much effort into this" attitude.



More blame and guilt shifting. In other words, more fallaciousness.



> he will post his near non existent process  for a short while and then disappear  when his improvements do. it's happened with multiple posters over the last couple of years



Or it could be they are just sick of your nonsense. Seriously, though, fitness can be a challenging thing, and needs to be part of a lifestyle change, something I have also mentioned here. If it and diet aren't seen as a change in lifestyle, they will likely not be successful.



> its indicative of the modern world that people expect results with out putting total effort into things, then when they inevitably  fail, they develop  a victim mentality. and start blaming anything they can think off, except there own lack of dedication.



See above.



> theres no science on gaining fitness that doesn't involve" progressive overload",  with the emphasis on OVERLOAD, there little benifit in progressive underload



Actually, no. the emphasis is on *both* words. If it were just about overload, one could go to the gym and just keep slapping plates on the bar and go at it. Endurance athletes could get in shape for a 5K one day, and be ready for a marathon in short order. "Progression" is the key to success. In running, for example, most coaches and trainers of non-elite runners will say to increase weekly mileage by no more than 10% as a rule of thumb. Elite runners typically cycle their mileage based on the season, their race plans and more, but typically don't make huge jumps in weekly mileage either. Weightlifters, to my knowledge, since I have a bit less experience in that area typically base their training on their one rep max for a particular exercise, and, depending on what program they are using, base their workouts on percentages of that max. They don't figure out what their max is, and then go beyond it daily for training purposes, but only to modify their workouts as they progress.


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## DocWard (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> it's still mid afternoon here, im off for a 10 mile return walk to the woods, a three mile jog and a quick  30 mins work out on the assault course, it's one of my rest days, so not to heavy
> 
> what about you ?




So, let me get this straight. A ten mile walk through the woods. By my training, a fit person can be expected to walk about a 12:00 mile on flat ground, for one mile. As mileage increases, that time typically decreases, over uneven terrain it decreases even more. So, giving the benefit of the doubt, and saying a 15 minute mile, we're talking two and a half hours walking. For your average runner, race pace for a 5K (3.1 miles) is about a 7:30 mile, depending on age. Since training pace is less than race pace except for specific workouts that are typically shorter than the race distance, and you said a "jog," let's call it a 9:00 mile to be generous. That's three minutes short of a half an hour. Followed by another half hour on the assault course. So, your "rest days" are three and a half hours of workout. That's actual workout time.

My BS Meter just pegged in the *red.*

If you aren't lying, you are nearly an elite athlete. Which leads me to believe you were lying about the overweight ex-girlfriend, unless you were taking her on as a "project." If she did actually exist, based upon your statements here, I have to surmise that were mentally abusive to her when she failed to live up to your unrealistic expectations, which contributed to her downward spiral.

Whatever the case may be, I'm serious, get professional help.


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> I am simply nonplussed by your response, in so many ways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


but ges not going straight into it,  he has been walking  for over a month now to my knowledge,  blisters dont happen if you invest in a decent pair of shoes that fit,  and blisters really your putting blisters down as a serious injury,and shin spins from a ten mile walk are totally unhear of, you've just made that up

all significant gains in fitness come from the last rep after you feel your shoulder are going to explode or the last 50 yards after  you feel your going to collapse, training till failure is what's required that's the point you've reached over load, so yes bang plates on till yourten reps are to failure, if it's not then do a couple more till it is, then take some plates off and do some more, and 5hen some more. the progression is next week you bang even more plates on. you can't cruise through a work it at 40 % and expect to achieve much at all

are you really suggesting top runners dont put max effort into their training, that is comical


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> So, let me get this straight. A ten mile walk through the woods. By my training, a fit person can be expected to walk about a 12:00 mile on flat ground, for one mile. As mileage increases, that time typically decreases, over uneven terrain it decreases even more. So, giving the benefit of the doubt, and saying a 15 minute mile, we're talking two and a half hours walking. For your average runner, race pace for a 5K (3.1 miles) is about a 7:30 mile, depending on age. Since training pace is less than race pace except for specific workouts that are typically shorter than the race distance, and you said a "jog," let's call it a 9:00 mile to be generous. That's three minutes short of a half an hour. Followed by another half hour on the assault course. So, your "rest days" are three and a half hours of workout. That's actual workout time.
> 
> My BS Meter just pegged in the *red.*
> 
> ...


walking isn't exercise to me, it's what I do for pleasure and to please the dog, and for recovery , I feel no fatigue  and never get an elevated heart rate,  I can quite literally walk all day, 5  miles is of no concern at all, I walk 6 miles to my Karate class and the same homhome but then I dont own a car, so its walk or get the mountain bike out and the dogs not keen on riding on the cross bar

clearly if you think 3 and a half hours exercise  is excesive you've never done a manual job, try rewiring a house one your own for 10 hours and then going running when you get home


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## DocWard (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> but ges not going straight into it,  he has been walking  for over a month now to my knowledge,  blisters dont happen if you invest in a decent pair of shoes that fit,  and blisters really your putting blisters down as a serious injury,and shin spins from a ten mile walk are totally unhear of, you've just made that up



Odd, I never mentioned blisters. As for shin splints, I've seen it plenty of times in walkers. Funny, the first article I pulled up mentions it.

https://www.discovery.co.za/vi-rsa/...ese_10.html&cache=logged_out_content&type=ccf



> all significant gains in fitness come from the last rep after you feel your shoulder are going to explode or the last 50 yards after  you feel your going to collapse, training till failure is what's required that's the point you've reached over load, so yes bang plates on till yourten reps are to failure, if it's not then do a couple more till it is, then take some plates off and do some more, and 5hen some more. the progression is next week you bang even more plates on. you can't cruise through a work it at 40 % and expect to achieve much at all
> 
> are you really suggesting top runners dont put max effort into their training, that is comical



You're quite the fallacy factory aren't you. Your description of what I stated regarding weights is really a Strawman. Of course, it is possible that you are incapable of reading for comprehension. And funny, even in your Strawman, you describe _progressive_ overload. Building your weight moving capability over time.

And yes, I am telling you elite runners don't put max effort into every run, every day. That would break down their bodies and not allow recovery time, among other things. There are tempo runs, recovery runs, fartleks and other types of interval training, speed days, "junk miles" and more, all of which combine to make better runners, whether in high school, college, or elite levels. For you to say otherwise, when you clearly don't know what you're talking about isn't comical, it is pathetic.


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## DocWard (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> walking isn't exercise to me, it's what I do for pleasure and to please the dog, and for recovery , I feel no fatigue  and never get an elevated heart rate,  I can quite literally walk all day, 5  miles is of no concern at all, I walk 6 miles to my Karate class and the same homhome but then I dont own a car, so its walk or get the mountain bike out and the dogs not keen on riding on the cross bar



Then you aren't doing it for "fitness" and not increasing your fitness by doing so. You lied about it, and shouldn't have mentioned it as part of your regimen, and only did so to sound impressive to others. Sucks to get called on it, doesn't it?



> clearly if you think 3 and a half hours exercise  is excesive you've never done a manual job, try rewiring a house one your own for 10 hours and then going running when you get home



Another red herring. But I'll see your re-wiring a house on your own and raise you a career as a combat medic in a combat arms unit, with deployments. My last deployment had me as an assistant squad leader for the Security Forces Area Reaction Force, often doing civilian clothes missions. I'm the one on the right in the hat:


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Odd, I never mentioned blisters. As for shin splints, I've seen it plenty of times in walkers. Funny, the first article I pulled up mentions it.
> 
> https://www.discovery.co.za/vi-rsa/...ese_10.html&cache=logged_out_content&type=ccf
> 
> ...


well, obviously your building ut over time, this week then next week and the week after,

well, now your saying things that I haven't said,so your compression is iffy,

I didn't say they run flat out every dayI dont lift heavy weights every day, like today my rest day, but neither do they bumble along at 40% effort for weeks at at time


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Then you aren't doing it for "fitness" and not increasing your fitness by doing so. You lied about it, and shouldn't have mentioned it as part of your regimen, and only did so to sound impressive to others. Sucks to get called on it, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha, your a medic walking about in civilian  clothes and your passing that off as hard work, my mum could do that and she 85

nb there are two with hats,


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## Buka (Mar 14, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I've definitely been making progress in the past 5ish weeks in many ways. My stamina has gotten better, posture is slowly improving (but still needs work), I can do techniques that really eluded me in my first few weeks, I'm not stomping around as much.
> 
> I know that rank isn't as important as some make it out to be, but it does serve a purpose for me, and that purpose is to serve as a sort of flag or marker that I'm making progress along my journey. It's nice to earn that next belt because it's an acknowledgement that yes, I am getting better and I'm learning more.
> 
> ...



Keep it up, brother. It's a long game, enjoy the heck out of every step.


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> So, let me get this straight. A ten mile walk through the woods. By my training, a fit person can be expected to walk about a 12:00 mile on flat ground, for one mile. As mileage increases, that time typically decreases, over uneven terrain it decreases even more. So, giving the benefit of the doubt, and saying a 15 minute mile, we're talking two and a half hours walking. For your average runner, race pace for a 5K (3.1 miles) is about a 7:30 mile, depending on age. Since training pace is less than race pace except for specific workouts that are typically shorter than the race distance, and you said a "jog," let's call it a 9:00 mile to be generous. That's three minutes short of a half an hour. Followed by another half hour on the assault course. So, your "rest days" are three and a half hours of workout. That's actual workout time.
> 
> My BS Meter just pegged in the *red.*
> 
> ...


why would I lie about an very fat girl friend, its not something to be proud of, I wouldn't take her out in public , as 1) people would laugh at me and two) she would attack thin girls who were chatting me up.

I was an elite athlete, before I discovered motorbikes, women and beer, and I will be again next year when I try out for the over 60s Olympics team,  I can do a 16 second 100 meters , that got to get me a medal in the old codgers games


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## DocWard (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> well, obviously your building ut over time, this week then next week and the week after,
> 
> well, now your saying things that I haven't said,so your compression is iffy,
> 
> I didn't say they run flat out every dayI dont lift heavy weights every day, like today my rest day, but neither do they bumble along at 40% effort for weeks at at time



I will assume you mean my "comprehension." However, you do, then, admit they don't give "max effort" which is precisely what you said. Those were your words, nothing I made up. I simply took them on their face as to what you meant. Nobody has said anything about "40% effort" either, except for you. Everyone has been saying to work to make steady progress, not pushing to the point of injury and frustration. I even referenced the quote about sweating when nobody is looking.



jobo said:


> Haha, your a medic walking about in civilian  clothes and your passing that off as hard work, my mum could do that and she 85
> 
> nb there are two with hats,



Odd, I could have sworn I said the one on the right in the hat, but oh well, I fixed it. Of course, I did mention I acted as an assistant squad leader, doing civilian clothes missions, or did you miss that part? I grabbed that picture because I didn't need to start pulling out USB drives and CD-Roms to find it. So here is another, getting ready to go out during training. What you can see:

Kevlar Helmet with goggles,
IOTV (with E-SAPI plates, front and rear)
M4 w/ CCO and full 30 round magazine
6-30 round magazines, fully loaded

What you can't see:

2 QT water supply
"Assault Pack" with cleaning kit, MRE, NVGs and other assorted items.

Total Weight above and beyond standard uniform: In excess of 80 pounds.

If I were running as the designated medic, I was also responsible for carrying a full aid bag, with bags of saline, trauma dressings and more, worth another 20 lbs or so. Training also consisted of various casualty carries, including one man, two man, improvised and litter carries.

A typical training day could consist of ruck marching 7-12 miles, working to keep a sub-15 minute pace  (EIB and EFMB standards for 12 miles), training for movement under fire, establishing fire superiority, and more.

I take it your mother was an instructor at the Ranger School. (Prior U.S. Army will get the reference)


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## DocWard (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> *why would I lie about an very fat girl friend,* its not something to be proud of, I wouldn't take her out in public , as 1) people would laugh at me and two) she would attack thin girls who were chatting me up.



You tell me. So, then you are actually more shallow and pathetic than I thought.


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> I will assume you mean my "comprehension." However, you do, then, admit they don't give "max effort" which is precisely what you said. Those were your words, nothing I made up. I simply took them on their face as to what you meant. Nobody has said anything about "40% effort" either, except for you. Everyone has been saying to work to make steady progress, not pushing to the point of injury and frustration. I even referenced the quote about sweating when nobody is looking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


walking about with a rucksack doesn't count as hard work either,  I do that every walk as well, 

40 % effort is what mayladdy is putting in, and your praising himfor it. 100% is where he should be, except on his rest days, then like the runners he can go about a bit  easy


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## JR 137 (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> You tell me. So, then you are actually more shallow and pathetic than I thought.


Don’t bother. Seriously. You’re dealing with the Rainman.


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> You tell me. So, then you are actually more shallow and pathetic than I thought.


have you ever gone out with a girl the size of a double wardrobe  ? if so I bet you hid her away, if not why not, I least I gave her a chance, well a lot more than one


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## jobo (Mar 14, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Don’t bother. Seriously. You’re dealing with the Rainman.


cheers harpo


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## JR 137 (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> cheers harpo


Well played.

Then again, I’m Deebo.


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## dvcochran (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> the dog can't do the distance any more. he is 14. BA ck in theday, we would go out all day and cover an easy 20 miles or 30 off road mountain biking. so I augment it with hill sprints now.
> 
> yes youve the " till you drop " attitude that's all I'm suggesting as an exercise atttude


I get that you are doing kilometers but that is still ridiculous. You sir are truly a strange bird, just like the rest of us.


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## JR 137 (Mar 14, 2019)

DocWard said:


> So, let me get this straight. A ten mile walk through the woods. By my training, a fit person can be expected to walk about a 12:00 mile on flat ground, for one mile. As mileage increases, that time typically decreases, over uneven terrain it decreases even more. So, giving the benefit of the doubt, and saying a 15 minute mile, we're talking two and a half hours walking. For your average runner, race pace for a 5K (3.1 miles) is about a 7:30 mile, depending on age. Since training pace is less than race pace except for specific workouts that are typically shorter than the race distance, and you said a "jog," let's call it a 9:00 mile to be generous. That's three minutes short of a half an hour. Followed by another half hour on the assault course. So, your "rest days" are three and a half hours of workout. That's actual workout time.
> 
> My BS Meter just pegged in the *red.*
> 
> ...


He probably does in fact walk 2 and a half hours every day after work. When you’ve got no kids, significant other, friends, and so on, what else are you going to do. Most people with a full time job and a life don’t have 2.5 hours to dedicate to walking. And working out  before or after.

Why didn’t I spend 2.5 hours walking and then working out for another hour or so? Simple. I’ve got a life.


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## DocWard (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> walking about with a rucksack doesn't count as hard work either,  I do that every walk as well,



Of course you do. And the last time you came to the U.S. you through-hiked the Appalachian Trail and the Pacific Crest trail in one season. On vacation.

Say, where did you get the E-SAPI plates for the IOTV and the Kevlar helmet? I would think those are hard to find on the civilian market. The civilian counterpart to the M4, the AR-15 is illegal there, isn't it? What do you carry instead?

Oh, wait, you don't carry that added weight, and you don't have to worry about the c-spine issues, knee and other musculoskeletal issues and more that carrying those weights over time cause to the military personnel that carry it.

Weight Of War: Soldiers' Heavy Gear Packs On Pain

[qoute]40 % effort is what mayladdy is putting in, and your praising himfor it. 100% is where he should be, except on his rest days, then like the runners he can go about a bit  easy[/QUOTE]

You have no idea how much effort he is making. He has stated he still gets "wiped out" in karate class, which is hardly indicative of 40% effort. The problem is, you've made your statements, doubled down on them and now have no way out without admitting you were wrong. And you aren't man enough to do that.



JR 137 said:


> Don’t bother. Seriously. You’re dealing with the Rainman.



People on the autism spectrum everywhere should take offense to that remark. He is offensive, reprehensible per se, and none to bright though.


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## DocWard (Mar 14, 2019)

You wrote:



jobo said:


> have you ever gone out with a girl the size of a double wardrobe  ? if so I bet you hid her away, if not why not, I least I gave her a chance, well a lot more than one



But you previously wrote:



jobo said:


> *she was 50 lbs over weight* when I met her, she said she was on a diet, so i went out with her on the proviso she lost weight, 5 years later and literally 100s of diet attempts she was *100 lb over weight*.



Were you lying the first time or the second time? To answer your question, before my marriage, now going on 29 years, I dated girls that were fit, a couple that were too thin, and a couple that were overweight. No, I didn't hide them away. Any of them. Why not? Because I'm not a shallow, self-absorbed narcissist, among other things. You've only served to reinforce my original beliefs, that her weight gain is on your shoulders, because of your cruelty and mental abuse toward her, and your need to keep her hidden away to save yourself embarrassment.

From dumbfounded to disgust. You just continue to go down in my estimation, and that in itself is impressive, considering how low you started.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> well you can make some pretty accurate assessment about people from there appearance or in this case a persons description of there appearance. if someone is 150/ 200 lbs over weight, excluding some very rare genetic abnormality, then they are either lazy or greedy or probably both, and severely lacking in self respect, or they wouldn't have let themself get that way. now if people are happy that way fair enough,
> 
> but very few of them are and have a history of starting diets/ exercise and after modest improvements give up and start sitting on the couch, stuffing cheeseburgers  again. so we can add lack of motorvation/ self discipline to the list.
> 
> ...


You have made so many generalizations that are just unsupportable as such. Your ignorance shows, as does your lack of understanding of people.

But go ahead. Feel big about how much better you are than others. That seems to be what gets you off.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 14, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I'm about 80% certain that Jobo is just screwing with us. Few people could be so dense. First I can't walk two miles without it almost killing me. Then I'm a loser because I only hiked 3 miles instead of 10. Now I'm back to not even being able walk 2 and a half miles around a park. Well what is it? Can I walk or can't I? I think he's just saying whatever comes to his mind as the most annoying. Either that or he was bullied as a child for something that he thought he should have had better control over, and thus it has turned him into a grumpy bugger. It may have involved cheeseburgers since he's fixated on that.


It's a recurring pattern of his.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 14, 2019)

jobo said:


> eating when your hungry is what your supposed to do, I'm mean screaming belly churning hungry, the problem is people eat when there not hungry just peckish, and continue eating when they no longer are, if people really can't control their urges,  until they experience hunger,  then fill up on something that is high in bulk and low in calories, like veg for instance,no one ever got fat eating raw carrots, even better eat celery,  which reputable consumes more calories in the digestion  process than it gives..


You assume that overweight people aren't hungry when they eat. Like other biological signals, hunger signals can get out of alignment with their original purpose. Only gnawing hunger doesn't, so far as I know, but many people won't feel that kind of hunger unless they skip a day of eating, which isn't always a healthy approach.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 14, 2019)

*THREAD LOCKED PENDING STAFF REVIEW*

Kempodisciple
William H.
MartialTalk Moderator


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