# Problem with the site loading



## Kacey

I have this on-again, off-again problem with the site loading slowly; I first noticed it about 3 or 4 months ago, but it's been slowly getting more frequent (or maybe it's just because I'm home more for the summer).  Sometimes it's just fine; sometimes, it will be minutes before a page loads fully, and the problem only affects MT; I don't access MT enough elsewhere to know if the problem occurs elsewhere.  Any ideas/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Computer:  Dell Latitude 100L
Operating System:  Windows XP Home, Service Pack 2
Browser:  Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.14
Anti-virals:  AVG Free 8.0; McAffee Security Suite


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Try clearing your cache.
Also, updating Firefox and XP to Service Pack 3 may help.

Anyone else having any problems?


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## exile

Bob Hubbard said:


> Try clearing your cache.
> Also, updating Firefox and XP to Service Pack 3 may help.
> 
> Anyone else having any problems?



Intermittently, but I don't see enough of a pattern to be able to nail down what's going on. Sometimes it'll take ten minutes or more for my post to go through... but immediately after that, everything runs swimmingly, so my sense is, most of the slowdowns I run into are at the server end, not at my end.


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## Kacey

Hmm... clearing the cache hasn't worked in the past and Firefox says there are no updates available... I've been avoiding SP 3 but it might be time to install it.

Thanks!


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## Kacey

exile said:


> Intermittently, but I don't see enough of a pattern to be able to nail down what's going on. Sometimes it'll take ten minutes or more for my post to go through... but immediately after that, everything runs swimmingly, so my sense is, most of the slowdowns I run into are at the server end, not at my end.



That's what I see - I'll open something in a tab, and it will sit and sit and sit... I'll open other threads in tabs, and wait - and they'll all come up at once, and then no problems for some time.


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## Sukerkin

I concur with the 'server side' issues.  My machine and my net connection, whilst not the gaming bleeding edge they were are still monstrous for net browsing.  I get it more at certain times of night than others but it's a daily event.

It occurs most, as best as I can tell, if there is a post in the thread I'm replying too before I finish.

EDIT:  Karen, I recommend you get SP3, it improves things quite a bit ... but ... make sure you're running at least a gig of RAM.  XP will choke on it's own blood if you're not.


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## Bob Hubbard

FireFox 3 was released on Tuesday.

I'll have the server checked.  Is there a particular time that things barf? 1AM NY time I have a few minutes of slowdown as the nightly updates kick off.


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## Kacey

Bob Hubbard said:


> FireFox 3 was released on Tuesday.
> 
> I'll have the server checked.  Is there a particular time that things barf? 1AM NY time I have a few minutes of slowdown as the nightly updates kick off.



Not any particular time that I can think of - but I can say that 1 AM NY time is 11 PM in Denver - I'm not generally on line then (I'm usually asleep) so I doubt that's the problem.  It was happening when I started the thread.

I'll check with Mozilla's site directly - but the check update button in the tools said I was up to date, which is why I thought it was.


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## Jade Tigress

Bob Hubbard said:


> Try clearing your cache.
> Also, updating Firefox and XP to Service Pack 3 may help.
> 
> Anyone else having any problems?



Yep. Me too. I'll clear my cache and update Firefox, hopefully that will help.


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## Bob Hubbard

Might be time for a new server....something I really really hope isn't it as the next step is way out side the budget unless we get like 200 more supporting members soon.


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## Topeng

I'm not sure when updates are done here but I had noticed the site wouldn't load at times. I worked nights until this week and the site couldn't even be found for hours late at night.


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## exile

Something happens right at 1a.m. EST... that much is pretty clear. Sometimes it's resolved quickly and other times it's a looooong wait to get back on track.


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## Xue Sheng

Kacey said:


> I've been avoiding SP 3


 
And I recommend you continue to do just that


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## Sukerkin

Ah, the wonderful sound of a clash of IT opinions :lol:.  

I find that SP3 was a very beneficial update that actually improved the speed of networked gaming operations on my primary machine.  It's security additions are highly recommended too (tho' if you don't use IE as your browser then not so much).


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## exile

Safari works a treat, for me...


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## Xue Sheng

Sukerkin said:


> Ah, the wonderful sound of a clash of IT opinions :lol:.
> 
> I find that SP3 was a very beneficial update that actually improved the speed of networked gaming operations on my primary machine. It's security additions are highly recommended too (tho' if you don't use IE as your browser then not so much).


 

Gaming ..phhft.... we don't allow no stinking gaming in my department...it's evil and gets peoples minds off the drudgery of work. :EG: :uhyeah:

I only deal in Enterprise stuff and the multiple softwares that are used in my department. And at this point XPSP3 does not play well with others as far as I am concerned. And has a few rather interesting security holes they REALLY need to address before I install it on anything.

EDIT

Sorry I made a mistake it is not 

"it's evil and gets peoples minds off the drudgery of work. :EG: :uhyeah:"

It is 

we're evil and don't want peoples minds distracted from the drudgery of work. :EG: :EG:


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## Bob Hubbard

When you have access issues, note the time, and duration, and post them here so I can track things.  Danke.


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## Sukerkin

Xue Sheng said:


> It is
> 
> we're evil and don't want peoples minds distracted from the drudgery of work. :EG: :EG:


 
ROFL.  

As I use UNIX for my professional activities I'm glad to say that I don't need to worry about any issues with SP3 outside of improved performance.

Out of interest tho', what issues are there that you speak of *Xue*?  If it's something bad then I'm surprised Micro$oft let it out of the house ... what am I saying!  Given their past track record that's exactly what they'd do i.e. use the global Beta Testers .


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## Xue Sheng

Sukerkin said:


> Out of interest tho', what issues are there that you speak of Xue? If it's something bad then I'm surprised Micro$oft let it out of the house ... what am I saying! Given their past track record that's exactly what they'd do i.e. use the global Beta Testers .


 
Microsoft is constantly letting out things that are full of holes and then they make patches that fix those holes and causes other holes and then they make more patches that fix those holes and cause... I think you get the idea. 

Just look at Vista, I recently was in a meeting that was discussing Vista and I told them what I feel and I honestly feel Microsoft has got to a point where they no longer understand their own software or how to fix it. 

But they sure know how to make money

EDIT

One issue was that AMD-based PCs to reboot repeatedly after XP Service Pack 3 is loaded.

But I will have to talk to our web admin and get back to you via PM, it was per his research that I came to this decision


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## Sukerkin

*Bob*, I just had one of the 'log-on' delays.  

Now thirty seconds of looking at a blue progress bar might not have sounded much in the days of dial-up but MT is the only site I visit at present where such delays crop up on broadband.  Perhaps it's the Gods of Balance deciding that because I like it here so much I should, on occasion, be made to wait just to prove I really want to login :lol:?


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## Bob Hubbard

I've put in a request for investigation and some performance tuning.


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## Sukerkin

Data:

Sever slowdown just happened again.  It is as if the server is just locking out processing requests.


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## Bob Hubbard

Sent back to the network gods for prayer and dead chicken waving.


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## Kacey

I upgraded to Firefox 3.0, and that seems to have helped - but it's only been a couple of days.


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## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> Sent back to the network gods for prayer and dead chicken waving.


 
Don't forget the chanting and drawing of runes.. it just won't work without the chanting and he runes


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## Bob Hubbard

I just remembered we're on a linux box....might have to wave a dead penguin instead of a chicken.....


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## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> I just remembered we're on a linux box....might have to wave a dead penguin instead of a chicken.....


 

PENGUIN!!!! It's a Penguin


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## Bob Hubbard

ok, many penguins have been sacrifices at the altar of Torvalds.

Let me know if the Gods of Connection have been appeased.


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## Kacey

They had been until a couple of minutes ago - I tried to load the site, and got 2 time out errors in a row ("the server is taking too long to respond") before it loaded.  It was about 8:50 mountain time.


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## Sukerkin

I got some events like that too last night.  I failed to note exactly when - my apologies .


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## Bob Hubbard

ok, I need some additional information.

Click START-RUN
Type CMD
at the command prompt type (no quotes) "tracert martialtalk.com"
copy and paste the result here the next time you have problems.

Thanks.


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## Sukerkin

Now why didn't I think of that?  Given what I do for a living ... my excuse is that I'm now on holiday so I've dumped all that computery jiggery-pokery in the wardrobe along with my suit :lol:.  

My head is full of nothing but tennis for the next two weeks .


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## jks9199

It's a little different issue I just had... but maybe related?  

When I came to the site this morning (about 11:30 AM Eastern), it said there 200+ new posts, but when I clicked "New Posts" (either the welcome screen or the button on the menu bar) I got a "sorry, there are no new posts." message.


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## Kacey

Bob Hubbard said:


> ok, I need some additional information.
> 
> Click START-RUN
> Type CMD
> at the command prompt type (no quotes) "tracert martialtalk.com"
> copy and paste the result here the next time you have problems.
> 
> Thanks.



It happened a minute ago (page load error)... I tried the above, but as soon as it got to "trace completed" the box closed, with no time for me to copy anything.


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## Sukerkin

It certainly shouldn't do that, Karen.

Did the output that you saw look anything like this?

*  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     8 ms    10 ms    21 ms  10.255.172.1
  3    11 ms    55 ms    11 ms  brhm-t2cam1-b-v128.inet.ntl.com [213.106.229.77]

  4    31 ms    12 ms    11 ms  brhm-t3core-1b-ge-013-0.inet.ntl.com [195.182.17
6.77]
  5    22 ms    30 ms    34 ms  bir-bb-b-so-020-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.174.5]
  6    15 ms    59 ms    17 ms  man-bb-a-so-230-0.inet.ntl.com [62.252.192.85]
  7    20 ms    65 ms    24 ms  212.187.136.125
  8    23 ms    28 ms    19 ms  ae-4-4.ebr1.London1.Level3.net [4.69.133.102]
  9    47 ms    37 ms    18 ms  ae-1-100.ebr2.London1.Level3.net [4.69.132.118]

 10    91 ms   105 ms    92 ms  ae-42.ebr1.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.137.70]
 11    94 ms   102 ms    92 ms  ae-61-61.csw1.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.134.66]

 12   101 ms    92 ms    92 ms  ae-62-62.ebr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.134.81]

 13   131 ms   125 ms   125 ms  ae-2.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.132.65]
 14   114 ms   120 ms   112 ms  ae-11-55.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.130]

 15   124 ms   121 ms   131 ms  WBS-CONNECT.edge5.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.71.182.
14]
 16   145 ms   121 ms   120 ms  lw-core4-ge9.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.38]
 17   120 ms   122 ms   129 ms  lw-dc2-dist3-ge2.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.1
22]
 18   139 ms   124 ms   121 ms  72.52.252.198*

Also, was the application running the window "system32/cmd.exe" (it'd say on the bar above the window)?  The DOS window should stay open until you close it (either via typing "Exit" at the prompt or clicking the 'close window' icon).  An alternative way of getting to the command line is via the Start menu.  There should be an option titled Command Prompt under Accessories.


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## Bob Hubbard

jks9199 said:


> It's a little different issue I just had... but maybe related?
> 
> When I came to the site this morning (about 11:30 AM Eastern), it said there 200+ new posts, but when I clicked "New Posts" (either the welcome screen or the button on the menu bar) I got a "sorry, there are no new posts." message.


That's a cookie issue that seems to happen here n there. You can check 'view last 24 hours' to see what was there. A bit inconvenient, but a partial work around.  'l trying to schedule a software update in a week or so when the new version of vB is released, might fix some issues.


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## arnisador

Tracing route to martialtalk.com [72.52.252.198]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     6 ms     5 ms     5 ms  10.69.0.1
  3     7 ms    10 ms     7 ms  srp3-0.iplsin1-rtr2.indy.rr.com [65.26.187.73]
  4    24 ms    24 ms    23 ms  son1-0-0.ncntoh1-rtr0.neo.rr.com [65.25.128.193]

  5    22 ms    23 ms     *     gig0-3-0.mtgmoh1-rtr0.columbus.rr.com [24.95.81.
213]
  6    22 ms    23 ms    23 ms  te-3-1.car1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net [4.78.216.9]

  7    22 ms    25 ms    22 ms  ae-2-5.bar1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net [4.69.132.206
]
  8    31 ms    34 ms    36 ms  ae-10-10.ebr2.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.136.214]

  9    31 ms    32 ms    28 ms  ae-21-52.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.34]

 10    39 ms    37 ms    38 ms  WBS-CONNECT.edge5.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.71.182.
14]
 11    39 ms    39 ms    40 ms  lw-core4-ge9.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.38]
 12    40 ms    37 ms    39 ms  lw-dc2-dist3-ge2.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.1
22]
 13    37 ms    41 ms    40 ms  72.52.252.198

Trace complete.

I didn't know Windows (DOS) could do this! I always used a web service for it from Windows.


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## jks9199

That's about what I figured... but I'm having another issue.  I don't think it's purely MT; I've just started getting "your connection was reset while communicating with the server" errors.  They don't seem to be limited to MT, and everything seems uncommonly slow.  Like slower than dialup!

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\>tracert martialtalk.com

Tracing route to martialtalk.com [72.52.252.198]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     2 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3    16 ms     8 ms    10 ms  ge-1-3-ur01.manassas.va.bad.comcast.net [68.87.1
35.217]
  4     8 ms    15 ms    22 ms  te-7-2-ar01.manassascc.va.bad.comcast.net [68.87
.129.189]
  5    18 ms    21 ms     *     po-10-ar01.howardcounty.md.bad.comcast.net [68.8
7.129.29]
  6    17 ms    20 ms    18 ms  po-10-ar02.whitemarsh.md.bad.comcast.net [68.87.
129.34]
  7    23 ms    20 ms    21 ms  te-0-3-0-1-cr01.philadelphia.pa.ibone.comcast.ne
t [68.86.90.77]
  8     *       24 ms    24 ms  pos-0-6-0-0-cr01.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net [6
8.86.85.10]
  9    23 ms     *       24 ms  xe-8-2-0.edge1.NewYork2.Level3.net [4.71.186.21]

 10    24 ms     *        *     vlan79.csw2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.68.16.126]
 11    25 ms    35 ms    35 ms  ae-72-72.ebr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.134.85]

 12    64 ms    54 ms    53 ms  ae-2.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.132.65]
 13    56 ms    52 ms    52 ms  ae-11-51.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.2]
 14    61 ms    61 ms     *     WBS-CONNECT.edge5.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.71.182.
14]
 15    61 ms    61 ms    59 ms  lw-core4-ge9.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.38]
 16    60 ms    59 ms    59 ms  lw-dc2-dist3-ge2.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.1
22]
 17     *       59 ms    61 ms  72.52.252.198

Trace complete.


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## Bob Hubbard

2 * * * Request timed out.
This looks like an ISP level issue.


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## Bob Hubbard

One thing I recommend especially for Windows folks is, clear your caches, restart browsers and reboot often.  I've noticed an increase in lag the longer I have a browser open and haven't rebooted.  (I go days, weeks sometimes between reboots)


Try connecting to jmatalk.com as well.  It's on the same server, but not database driven.  Let me know the results, if pages on one load fast and the other crawls, etc.

Thanks


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## Kacey

Sukerkin said:


> It certainly shouldn't do that, Karen.
> 
> Did the output that you saw look anything like this?
> 
> *  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
> 2     8 ms    10 ms    21 ms  10.255.172.1
> 3    11 ms    55 ms    11 ms  brhm-t2cam1-b-v128.inet.ntl.com [213.106.229.77]
> 
> 4    31 ms    12 ms    11 ms  brhm-t3core-1b-ge-013-0.inet.ntl.com [195.182.17
> 6.77]
> 5    22 ms    30 ms    34 ms  bir-bb-b-so-020-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.174.5]
> 6    15 ms    59 ms    17 ms  man-bb-a-so-230-0.inet.ntl.com [62.252.192.85]
> 7    20 ms    65 ms    24 ms  212.187.136.125
> 8    23 ms    28 ms    19 ms  ae-4-4.ebr1.London1.Level3.net [4.69.133.102]
> 9    47 ms    37 ms    18 ms  ae-1-100.ebr2.London1.Level3.net [4.69.132.118]
> 
> 10    91 ms   105 ms    92 ms  ae-42.ebr1.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.137.70]
> 11    94 ms   102 ms    92 ms  ae-61-61.csw1.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.134.66]
> 
> 12   101 ms    92 ms    92 ms  ae-62-62.ebr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.134.81]
> 
> 13   131 ms   125 ms   125 ms  ae-2.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.132.65]
> 14   114 ms   120 ms   112 ms  ae-11-55.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.130]
> 
> 15   124 ms   121 ms   131 ms  WBS-CONNECT.edge5.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.71.182.
> 14]
> 16   145 ms   121 ms   120 ms  lw-core4-ge9.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.38]
> 17   120 ms   122 ms   129 ms  lw-dc2-dist3-ge2.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.1
> 22]
> 18   139 ms   124 ms   121 ms  72.52.252.198*
> 
> Also, was the application running the window "system32/cmd.exe" (it'd say on the bar above the window)?  The DOS window should stay open until you close it (either via typing "Exit" at the prompt or clicking the 'close window' icon).  An alternative way of getting to the command line is via the Start menu.  There should be an option titled Command Prompt under Accessories.



Yeah, it was something like that... and I've never had the DOS window close on me like that before; I did it 3 times just to check.  I'll have to try the other route next time and see what I get.

Of course, I had to try again... got this:



> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>tracert martialtalk.com
> 
> Tracing route to martialtalk.com [72.52.252.198]
> over a maximum of 30 hops:
> 
> 1     1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
> 2     7 ms     7 ms    11 ms  73.85.232.1
> 3     8 ms     7 ms     7 ms  ge-2-35-ur01.denver.co.denver.comcast.net [68.85
> .220.73]
> 4     8 ms     7 ms     7 ms  te-8-3-ar01.denver.co.denver.comcast.net [68.86.
> 103.1]
> 5    10 ms    13 ms     9 ms  68.86.84.74
> 6    11 ms     9 ms     9 ms  te-0-0-0-4-cr01.cleveland.oh.ibone.comcast.net [
> 68.86.84.73]
> 7    10 ms     9 ms    11 ms  te-4-4.car2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.79.82.57]
> 8    11 ms    17 ms    17 ms  ae-32-52.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.68.107.62]
> 9    46 ms    35 ms    36 ms  ae-3.ebr3.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.132.62]
> 10    35 ms    35 ms    35 ms  ae-68.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.134.57]
> 11    85 ms    34 ms    35 ms  ae-11-55.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.130]
> 
> 12    45 ms    45 ms    43 ms  WBS-CONNECT.edge5.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.71.182.
> 14]
> 13    47 ms    45 ms    44 ms  lw-core3-ge9.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.10]
> 14    62 ms    45 ms    45 ms  lw-dc2-dist4-ge1.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.1
> 26]
> 15    44 ms    44 ms    43 ms  72.52.252.198
> 
> Trace complete.



I don't know what happened the first time... but if it freezes out again, I'll let you know.


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## Sukerkin

Karen, it could be that you were typing the _tracert_ command straight into the command line pop-up box.  If you first type _cmd_ and OK it, it will open the DOS window.  Run the tracert in there and it wont close itself on you.

You can thank my old mate Andy for jogging my memory on this one .  I could recall that I'd seen the problem before but couldn't recall when .


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## Bob Hubbard

Traces look good....I'll see what else I can check into.


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## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> One thing I recommend especially for Windows folks is, clear your caches, restart browsers and reboot often. I've noticed an increase in lag the longer I have a browser open and haven't rebooted. (I go days, weeks sometimes between reboots)


 
Good idea, Windows tends to degrade a bit the longer it is open, much to Microsofts denial, which can start causing multiple issues.

The Magic Reboot Fixes many things and keeps me looking like a PC GOD :mst:


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## Kacey

I shut my computer down every night... so at least in my case, that's not it.


----------



## Kacey

It just froze out again (page load error) and here's what I got:



> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>tracert martialtalk.com
> 
> Tracing route to martialtalk.com [72.52.252.198]
> over a maximum of 30 hops:
> 
> 1    <1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
> 2     8 ms     7 ms     8 ms  73.85.232.1
> 3     8 ms    10 ms     6 ms  ge-2-35-ur01.denver.co.denver.comcast.net [68.85
> .220.73]
> 4     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  te-8-3-ar01.denver.co.denver.comcast.net [68.86.
> 103.1]
> 5    10 ms     9 ms    18 ms  68.86.84.74
> 6    10 ms     9 ms     9 ms  te-0-0-0-4-cr01.cleveland.oh.ibone.comcast.net [
> 68.86.84.73]
> 7    11 ms     8 ms     9 ms  te-4-4.car2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.79.82.57]
> 8    10 ms    15 ms    17 ms  ae-32-52.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.68.107.62]
> 9    43 ms    35 ms    36 ms  ae-3.ebr3.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.132.62]
> 10    44 ms    37 ms    37 ms  ae-68.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.134.57]
> 11    34 ms    34 ms    43 ms  ae-11-55.car1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.130]
> 
> 12   119 ms    45 ms    43 ms  WBS-CONNECT.edge5.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.71.182.
> 14]
> 13    44 ms    43 ms    44 ms  lw-core3-ge9.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.10]
> 14    48 ms    44 ms    44 ms  lw-dc2-dist4-ge1.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.157.1
> 26]
> 15    44 ms    46 ms    56 ms  72.52.252.198
> 
> Trace complete.
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>



But it doesn't look any different from what I got before.


----------



## Sukerkin

Time for a "me too" at about the same moment it would appear.


----------



## shesulsa

Xue Sheng said:


> Good idea, Windows tends to degrade a bit the longer it is open, much to Microsofts denial, which can start causing multiple issues.
> 
> The Magic Reboot Fixes many things and keeps me looking like a PC GOD :mst:



Reminds me of a joke.

Four engineers are in a car driving across the desert when the car suddenly stops on the road by itself and doesn't respond to anything - steering wheel, accelorator, nothing.

The engineers begin to argue about what's wrong and what to do. The electrical engineer swears it's a problem with the wiring and launches into a justification why and recommended action.  The biochemical engineer swears it's a probelm with the outrageously inferior fuel purchased at the last stop and concocts a recipe of local plant life and rations to add to the fuel for remedy.  The mechanical engineer *knows* it's an engine problem and starts to rummage for his tools so he can fix the catiwhompus dinglehopper.  The three raise voices and accuse and call each other names while the fourth engineer remains still and silent.  

Finally they all stop and look at him and ask, "well??? What would YOU recommend?"

The Microsoft engineer says, "I think we all need to get out of the car and then get back in."


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## Bob Hubbard

Additional tests show we're close to our current limits in memory usage, and more memory is recommended. Thats $50 more a month. 30 more supporting members or 5 more gold key members to cover that upgrade, should we go that route.

Keep me posted on the times things happen though. Hopefully, it's smoothing out.


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