# 100% use of power to punch?



## still learning (Mar 21, 2006)

Hello, Someone pointed out to get 100% power to your punches, as you move your fist out, the heel of your foot starts to lift,the hips turns and, as the elbows push the fist hand out to tarket.

3 parts here: heel lifts, hips turns, elbow push fist out. approx 1/3 of your power come from each part.

Does this make sense? Try only throwing punches without the other 2 parts, then try with all 3 parts in motion.

Most schools always talks about how power comes from the hips (turn hips) for punches and kicks. 

Want more power? ...STUDY THIS... it seems to work for us...Aloha


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## Hand Sword (Mar 21, 2006)

I agree! Raising the heel is what drives the body weight into the punch.


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## 7starmantis (Mar 21, 2006)

Its different philosophies basically. Many styles use the "boxer heel lift" to generate power while others (most CMA styles) do not encourage lifting of the heel which could in turn uproot your own center of balance. 

7sm


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## Andrew Green (Mar 21, 2006)

"Punch with your legs!"


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 21, 2006)

one school i trained at used to call that method 'punching with the whole planet'


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## moonflipper (Mar 22, 2006)

The thing is that speeds are adding up.
Watch this ullustration to understand.
About speed coordination and mass u put into your punch.

http://www.martinvidic.com/martinvidic_en_2006/flash_mavi/sanda_punching_jab.htm

Press (NEXT) to see the move with explaination agnels etc....


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## King (Jul 14, 2006)

I love punching, to me there is nothing more fulfilling than feeling my knuckles connect with my target. I know I have other weapons as well, but I find the science behind punching the most interesting. 

I learned how to throw the jab in three steps:

Phase 1. Practice it while taking a short step forward (only the lead leg moves: 1-2 inch max. Move too far and you'll have to move the back leg to stay in form). This step makes your body familliar with the dynamics of shifting the weight forward. 

Phase 2. Cont. from jabbing while stepping - concentrate on coordinating twisting your hips into your target as your arm extends out. The trick is to find the right amount of hip twist so that you don't over extend the punch (be too open) and be able to pull it back into position (block/reset) right away. Also keep the other hand up to defend your head.

Phase 3. No more stepping. Since your body is familliar with weight shifting you should be able to generate the same momentum by using your legs to twist your hips and throw the punch. Don't rush to get to this point. Never rush, when your body is used to shifting weight and generating momentum from body memory you'll know. 

From my experience I was taught 2 forms of jabs. One is thrown by quickly flicking the arm (very fast jabs but weak) to set up stronger attacks. The other is simillar to a cross, where you bring your elbows up and across - a bit slower but is able to knock somebody out. Depending on the situation one is better than the other. I suggest practicing both so that you have more tools to work with. I find the fast jabs work well in the early rounds/short combat while the slower stronger jabs works in the latter end of a fight (when you are tired and looking for that one KO punch).

I think everybody is different and the hard part is finding the right form of punching method for your body type. In the end I practiced throwing nothing but jabs 2 hrs a day, 4-5 days a week for 6 months on the heavy bag until I was comfortable with it. I must stress that it is very important for a coach/teacher to watch you for the first few weeks to make sure you are practicing the correct thing. Nothing worse than practicing the wrong thing. Bad habits are difficult to unlearn.

*note: I find that I do not need to go on my toes for jabs. Doing so slows down my arm retraction time. The split second it takes to reset my foot is long enough for somebody to set up a hook counter.

I must warn you that training to punch very hard can and will most likely break your hand if you are not ready for it. Wear wraps to protect your wrists and gloves to protect your knuckles. Unless you are planning on fighting for a living then by all means go hardcore.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Jul 14, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> "Punch with your legs!"


 
beat me to it, darn you:ultracool


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 14, 2006)

Legs are important but we must remember you punch with your arm; so, paying attention to your upper body is every bit as important if not more so.
Sean


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## MRE (Jul 14, 2006)

I think everyone is looking for more power, and rightfully so.  We all want our fights/matches/altercations to end as quickly as possible.  However, early on in my boxing days, I tried to make sure that every punch was thrown hard enough to end the fight.  The result was a low contact percentage, very little combos, and me getting outscored by my opponent.  After my first match, my coach pulled me on the side and made me throw two precision punches before every power shot to make sure that I set the opponent up.  This made a huge difference in my effectiveness.  The precision punches (jabs, crosses at 70% power, etc.) were quicker than the power shots and allowed me to score more and keep the opponent off balance before throwing the bomb.  The funny thing was, I got more knock outs from the precision punches than from the bombs.  A jab thrown crisply, even the quick jabs that king posted, can knock someone out, especially when the gloves are off.

So again power is great, but I think we should always be cognizant of our precision and speed.


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## still learning (Jul 14, 2006)

MRE said:
			
		

> I think everyone is looking for more power, and rightfully so. We all want our fights/matches/altercations to end as quickly as possible. However, early on in my boxing days, I tried to make sure that every punch was thrown hard enough to end the fight. The result was a low contact percentage, very little combos, and me getting outscored by my opponent. After my first match, my coach pulled me on the side and made me throw two precision punches before every power shot to make sure that I set the opponent up. This made a huge difference in my effectiveness. The precision punches (jabs, crosses at 70% power, etc.) were quicker than the power shots and allowed me to score more and keep the opponent off balance before throwing the bomb. The funny thing was, I got more knock outs from the precision punches than from the bombs. A jab thrown crisply, even the quick jabs that king posted, can knock someone out, especially when the gloves are off.
> 
> So again power is great, but I think we should always be cognizant of our precision and speed.


 
Hello, Good point!! ...there are a purpose for the jabs...then the power punches....also hitting in right places do not always require full power...just enough!

Lots of people train to hit only with there upper body....purpose here is to beware of the whole body going into the strikes. ....Aloha


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## Brandon Fisher (Jul 14, 2006)

I teach to punch with the legs and hips keep the heel flat and snapping the punch right at the point of impact.  Keeping everything relaxed also to the point of impact.  I have broke patio block from a inch away using this method.


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## pstarr (Jul 14, 2006)

It's important to examine the technique (actually, every technique) with respect to physics and kinesiology.

     In the internal kung-fu systems, power is driven up from the (soles of) feet and the rearmost foot is kept flat on the ground.  In a reverse punch (which is the basic_ bengchuan_ of Xingyichuan) the hips are turned no more than 45 degrees.  A turn of more than that results in more of a "pushing" action than generating sharply focused shock.

     The spine- lumbar, thoracic, and cervical parts - is kept straight (but not stiff) with the chest slightly collapsed.  This helps "round out" the upper back in what's called _bear's shoulders_.  The punching elbow should point down.


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## Brandon Fisher (Jul 15, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> It's important to examine the technique (actually, every technique) with respect to physics and kinesiology.
> 
> In the internal kung-fu systems, power is driven up from the (soles of) feet and the rearmost foot is kept flat on the ground. In a reverse punch (which is the basic_ bengchuan_ of Xingyichuan) the hips are turned no more than 45 degrees. A turn of more than that results in more of a "pushing" action than generating sharply focused shock.
> 
> The spine- lumbar, thoracic, and cervical parts - is kept straight (but not stiff) with the chest slightly collapsed. This helps "round out" the upper back in what's called _bear's shoulders_. The punching elbow should point down.


Similar to the Okinawan Karate-Do style of punching in particular with a reverse punch.


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## pstarr (Jul 15, 2006)

Very similar.  We utilize reverse breathing, which was used by the original Okinawan systems-


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## Brandon Fisher (Jul 15, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> Very similar. We utilize reverse breathing, which was used by the original Okinawan systems-


I have heard of it I think.


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## pstarr (Jul 15, 2006)

In reverse breathing, the abdomen contracts slightly during inhalation and then when you exhale, the abdomen is expanded.  Thus, the name.  Actually, it should feel as though your whole lower torso is expanding (on the sides and lower back as well as the abdomen) when you exhale.


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## Brandon Fisher (Jul 15, 2006)

Ok it is what I thought we do that also.


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## still learning (Jul 15, 2006)

Hello, It will take a life time to master just one punch/technique using all the proper muscles, breathing,proper movement and so on..plus knowing which muscles to relax and when....for maximum power.  Try doing this is a real confrontation?

Anyone can punch hard...to do it the martial arts way....That is why Kata's are good....every turn,every step..needs to be done with proper breathing/speed/relaxation/power/steps/balance....Every time! Too bad there is NO way to measure oneself for each step of the Kata's or sparing times..

How can one measure breathing/which mucsles to relax/tighten?  It is like when you hit a baseball (homerun hit)...it seems to be no effort to it...

Same for golfing when you get that special shot that seems to fly forever...you hit it with all the proper steps.....Hard to do everytime....

Just my thoughts on this.......Sometimes I get "punchee".....Aloha


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## wowzer77 (Jul 21, 2006)

I heard if you punch with your elbow close to the center of your body and don't put any hip or leg momentum into your punch, just extend your arm quickly from next to your face into a downward arc and then into the target, it will be more effective.  First because it is faster, also, whatever you hit there is going to be an opposite equal reaction, so since your elbow is towards the center of your body the shock from whatever you hit will go through your arm to the center of your body where there is a lot of support.  This makes your punch not slow down as much when you hit the target..this is how they punch in Wing Chun I think, and it sounds like it would work, but I also read that this takes a longer time to master than a normal punch and doesn't hurt quite as bad.  Still can probably knock someone out. I personally am still sticking to punches with your hips and leg momentum involved, but when I start taking Wing Chun classes I may change my ways.


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## mantis (Jul 21, 2006)

punch with  your knee if you could. that's the only time i understand lifting the heel to generate power.
yes you may generate more power by lifting the heel (im not even sure you could) but the downside to that makes it a bad idea to do that.  you should always make sure your weight is not rushing forward.


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## kingkong89 (Jul 30, 2006)

yes by doing this you are able to put all your body into the puch making it as powerful as possible


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 31, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> punch with your knee if you could. that's the only time i understand lifting the heel to generate power.
> yes you may generate more power by lifting the heel (im not even sure you could) but the downside to that makes it a bad idea to do that. you should always make sure your weight is not rushing forward.


Why should you --always-- not launch your body weight forward?
Sean


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## pstarr (Jul 31, 2006)

It's easy to hyperextend your technique and lose your balance (even slightly) forward.  This allows the opponent, if he has real fighting skill, to exploit your vulnerability since, in an unbalanced state, you are unable to effectively defend yourself.

If the rear heel is raised at the moment of impact, you will lose the ability to generate _shock_ as opposed to _force_.  This is why most of the old traditionalists forbade it.

     This isn't to say that you can't hit hard with your rear heel elevated.  But you could hit much harder (if your technique is correct) if you drive the sole of the rear foot down as you execute the blow.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 31, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> It's easy to hyperextend your technique and lose your balance (even slightly) forward. This allows the opponent, if he has real fighting skill, to exploit your vulnerability since, in an unbalanced state, you are unable to effectively defend yourself.
> 
> If the rear heel is raised at the moment of impact, you will lose the ability to generate _shock_ as opposed to _force_. This is why most of the old traditionalists forbade it.
> 
> This isn't to say that you can't hit hard with your rear heel elevated. But you could hit much harder (if your technique is correct) if you drive the sole of the rear foot down as you execute the blow.


I disagree that you are unbalanced. Balance is your ability to maintain stability. The degree of difficulty is highter. Who cares which method is more powerfull if they are both powerefull enough to get the job done. The heel up method is a mobility over stability tech. It is not inferior to the heel down method. They are just two seperate ways of punching which can be utilized when needed. "An ounce of Logic is worth a ton of tradition."
Sean


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## pstarr (Jul 31, 2006)

Trust me, if you're hyperextended, you're unbalanced.  I didn't say that if you lift your heel, you're unbalanced...I said that lifting the heel makes it easier to hyperextend your technique and thus, become unbalanced.

If you lean forward when you punch, you're unbalanced.  Period.  

As for caring about which method is superior so long as it's strong enough to get the job done....how do you know how much power is enough to get the job done?

     The function of the flat-foot method is to allow you to maximize the destructive power with which you strike your opponent while simultaneously maintaining stability (so long as your posture is correct).

     And keeping the rear foot flat at the instant of impact is not at all detrimental to mobility.  Not even a little.


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 1, 2006)

So don't hyperextend yourself when you punch with your heel up. I manage to punch heel up without leaning forward; so, I'm not off balance. And all you heel down guys do so well in the UFC, and I say it effects your mobility a lot, starting with a lack of launch.
Sean


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## charyuop (Aug 1, 2006)

Touch Of Death said:
			
		

> So don't hyperextend yourself when you punch with your heel up. I manage to punch heel up without leaning forward; so, I'm not off balance. And all you heel down guys do so well in the UFC, and I say it effects your mobility a lot, starting with a lack of launch.
> Sean


 
What if you miss? If your opponent instead of taking the punch or blocking it simply avoids it? Your punch if misses the target will lead you forward if you are not well balanced. Would be enough to pull the arm or push on your shoulder to make you realize how unstable your balance actually was.
I would prefere having a good balance and being able to shoot a 1-2 (as a combo of two punches) than taking the risk with one missing punch and down I go.
Just my 2 cents.


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## Syn (Aug 1, 2006)

In Hung Gar, I forget what the technique was reffered to as but we keep our hands completely loose, and right before we make contact we tighten into a fist. Kind of like float like a butterfly sting like a bee, and when done properly, while punching it should sort of make a whip cracking sound. And we lean our upper body in a little to give the punch weight, but keep our lower body center dug in and grounded, so that we won't loose our balance, and can actually apply the body weight, instead of our body just scooting backwards.


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## mantis (Aug 1, 2006)

Syn said:
			
		

> In Hung Gar, I forget what the technique was reffered to as but we keep our hands completely loose, and right before we make contact we tighten into a fist. Kind of like float like a butterfly sting like a bee, and when done properly, while punching it should sort of make a whip cracking sound. And we lean our upper body in a little to give the punch weight, but keep our lower body center dug in and grounded, so that we won't loose our balance, and can actually apply the body weight, instead of our body just scooting backwards.


exactly it's like hitting someone with a rope tied to a rock at the end of it.  Your description of this punch may not be the description for a 100% powered punch (although very powerful with proper connection to hip) but it's definitely a smart punch that takes into account the possibility of facing an opponent with good defense.  it's a good strategy to always think 'oh, whats going to happen if i get blocked, or if i miss'?
when you take your heel off the ground and miss then you're gone, arent you?


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## pstarr (Aug 1, 2006)

Yes - with the heel up you have a real tendency to hyper-extend your body and/or lean too far forward, especially if you miss your intended target.  A veteran fighter will lull you into launching a punch at him, evade your blow, and then take advantage of your unstable position.  It only takes a second.


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## mantis (Aug 1, 2006)

so maybe taking a step forward with the forward foot helps.  this way you will have a wider base to distribute your weight on, and you will take advantage of energy moving forward without having to deal with the risk of being plucked or pushed or being out of balance.


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## pstarr (Aug 1, 2006)

That'll help insofar as stability goes but part of the problem is in the reaction force of your own blow - it travels back down through your body and to the driving (rear) foot.  If the heel is raised, the flexed ankle absorbs much of that (reaction) force and it can't "bounce" off the ground and return to the point of impact a second time (this is "shock").

     You can feel this phenomenon if you place your fist against a striking post or other firm object, adopt your punching stance, and press the fist into the target (without leaning).  The driving (rear) foot wants to press down.

     If you do the same thing in a flat-footed posture, you can really feel the force of your press traveling down into the sole of your rear foot.


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## charyuop (Aug 2, 2006)

Ankle and knee. Once you lift the heel to punch thus using it like a pushing base you will most certainly lock your knee and this way part of the body weight shifts there too.


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 2, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> That'll help insofar as stability goes but part of the problem is in the reaction force of your own blow - it travels back down through your body and to the driving (rear) foot. If the heel is raised, the flexed ankle absorbs much of that (reaction) force and it can't "bounce" off the ground and return to the point of impact a second time (this is "shock").
> 
> You can feel this phenomenon if you place your fist against a striking post or other firm object, adopt your punching stance, and press the fist into the target (without leaning). The driving (rear) foot wants to press down.
> 
> If you do the same thing in a flat-footed posture, you can really feel the force of your press traveling down into the sole of your rear foot.


Yes, I agree it is a different punch and with the heel up you are, in effect, bouncing your body weight off of or into the target. That is why I use both methods. This is not a new debate. I read about this and the possible self inflicted damage in a seventies "Destroyer" novel when I was in junior high. If your target is the spine then either method will destroy the bone and tissue in between. Heel up is not as pretty in forms because there is no self imposed breaking; so, the breaks are your opponent. If he moves you are screwed, but its not like you are sitting pretty when you miss with the other method. It is a judgement call and unless you are a close range fighter I would avoid heel up too.
Sean


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## jasonearle (Aug 18, 2006)

ok.  there are a number of principles in a punch that can increase its power and effectiveness from what I have learned in my training.   I'm talking about a finishing strike or major move, not a quick jab or a set up move.   Lifting the heel off the ground when your punching with your back hand, allows you to move more quickly giving you that rotational torque to add power to the punch.   Bone alignment is also a great principle to add power so you don't break something because you punched wrong and you have more behind your punch.  Putting something behind you punch is a principle called back-up mass.   so, bone aligment is a component of back-up mass because one bone is behind the other adding to the amount of pressure applied when the strike makes contact.   When the strike makes contact, I drop my heel, whick also adds to the back up mass and solidifies the punch.   Settling, or dropping your weight, (dropping the heel and slightly bending the knees), also solidifies your weight and is a precursor to another principle called, marriage of gravity.  Basically you are using a stomp to the ground to pull energy up through your body, adding more power to the strike.   I'm talking about kinetic energy.   Its easier to see in application then to explain in words.  if you've been hit by someone using this principle, then no further explanation is needed.   Relaxation is a big one.  Relax to the point of impact or you will loose speed and power because your movement will be almost stuttered.  Try tightening your whole arm and throwing an effective punch and then try it totally relaxed and see the difference.   There are more but I don't want this to get too long for now, so if you would like me to elaborate more or have questions, let me know.


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