# Does your art involve Ki?



## Bob Hubbard (Mar 2, 2006)

Many arts involve some amount of Chi/Ki/Qi training, either through techniques, concepts or meditation. To what extent does your art involve it?


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## terryl965 (Mar 2, 2006)

I don't believe any particular art has these quality, but the individual has the ability to produce it themself at the proper time.

TKD does not have chi or Ki power but yet we use it everyday when we do something outstanding outside our own personal relm of behavior.
Terry


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## Andrew Green (Mar 2, 2006)

In a sense, but I don't believe chi exists 

to make that clearer...  a lot of the same principles/effects attributed to chi will be used in any art, but are explained differently.

Same way one can use the "solid dome of the heavens" for navigation, and yet know that the stars are not all on a dome equall distance from us and rotating around us.  

Same result, same observation, different explanation.


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## shesulsa (Mar 2, 2006)

We train on ki development and movement using breathing excercises and a few qigong exercises as well.


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## samurai69 (Mar 3, 2006)

we practice Ki development exercises


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 3, 2006)

Our art involves alot of circular motion which is naturally conducive to chi development, as opposed to linear movements. We also do qi gong exercises and discuss/practice chi developement at times...but those exercises are not a regular part of training. We may spend a class here and there devoted to qi qong exercises. 

The way we train will naturally develop chi, over time, through the circular movements and breathing that we do train on a regular basis. Internal development is as big a part of training as external development in kung fu, and is a natural by-product of kung fu training. That's not to say it can be, and is, more highly developed in those who focus a greater amount of training to the specific development of chi, but that the concept of chi development to some degree, through training kung fu, is a given in our art.


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## Makalakumu (Mar 3, 2006)

I have a real hard time explaining how to develop chi or how to use it because I cannot really explain how it works.  So, I mostly stick to using physics and other sciences in my MA class.  I offer alternate explanations for things we do in class using chi terminology though...

It really depends.  Some students are only interested in the exoteric parts of an art and some are only interested in the esoteric parts.  I'm probably a better teacher to those of the former and not as good for the latter.


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## still learning (Mar 19, 2006)

Hello, In our art, Ki is always mention and we all believe in KI. That was the way we were bought up. Kinda like knowing GOD? it is there but how do you prove it? NO one can prove GOD is real. (scientific proof). But we believe?


Anyway internal strenght has been known to happen! It is not a thing you can touch like metal, but like a spirit...it is there! I believe in IT!!!

.....Aloha


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 19, 2006)

Ki, or in my case, Qi training is a large part of what I do, but I train internal Chinese martial arts; Yang Tai Chi and I am returning to Xingyi.


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## Seigi (Mar 19, 2006)

We use Chi/Qi training in our arts as well, modern arnis, tang soo do & others. 

Peace


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## bladenosh (Mar 29, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, In our art, Ki is always mention and we all believe in KI. That was the way we were bought up. Kinda like knowing GOD? it is there but how do you prove it? NO one can prove GOD is real. (scientific proof). But we believe?
> 
> 
> Anyway internal strenght has been known to happen! It is not a thing you can touch like metal, but like a spirit...it is there! I believe in IT!!!
> ...





Ki can be explained by the movement of neurons through our nerves. Its like an electrical flow, which of course can be strengthened. It isn't realized that science already explains these things? Flexibility is the most well known ki improving exercise, simply because it opens your body for a better vascular flow (which fuels your body with more oxygen). Pressure Points are points in which nerves cross, split, or end, being the main transportation zones for these "electrical waves". My arm hurts too much now from Jujutsu to type anymore, so... maybe more later.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 31, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, In our art, Ki is always mention and we all believe in KI. That was the way we were bought up. Kinda like knowing GOD? it is there but how do you prove it? NO one can prove GOD is real. (scientific proof). But we believe?
> 
> Anyway internal strenght has been known to happen! It is not a thing you can touch like metal, but like a spirit...it is there! I believe in IT!!!
> 
> .....Aloha






			
				bladenosh said:
			
		

> Ki can be explained by the movement of neurons through our nerves. Its like an electrical flow, which of course can be strengthened. It isn't realized that science already explains these things? Flexibility is the most well known ki improving exercise, simply because it opens your body for a better vascular flow (which fuels your body with more oxygen). Pressure Points are points in which nerves cross, split, or end, being the main transportation zones for these "electrical waves". My arm hurts too much now from Jujutsu to type anymore, so... maybe more later.




Dr Yang gives a similar explanation in the beginning of most of his books on Tai Chi and Qi Gong.

Also his first Qi Gong book goes into great depth and is more of a Qi Textbook actually.


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## crushing (Apr 14, 2006)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> Many arts involve some amount of Chi/Ki/Qi training, either through techniques, concepts or meditation. To what extent does your art involve it?



My TKD class hasn't done much with the Chi in the year that I have been training.  One night we did an exercise where we pulled the Chi away from the partner and circled it back into a strike against the partner.

Thanks for everyone's input on this, I'm interested in learning more.


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## shifu (Apr 14, 2006)

Within the paradigm that is White Crane, Chi/Qi is a fundamental concept and set of principles. Particularly within our Minghequan (Calling Crane) art being one of the more internal forms of White Crane.

As for being a concept or science, I believe Chi/Qi within the context of our art is more about encapsulating the various concepts within a unique terminology for the transmission of same.


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## dianhsuhe (Apr 15, 2006)

We use the 4 KI principles found in Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido (Tohei Sensei system).

James


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## Henderson (Apr 15, 2006)

:-offtopic 

I'm know I'm going off topic here, but at what point did this topic stop being a discussion and start being a contest to see who can say "I'm right and You're wrong" more often, and in the greatest variations.  I believe the original title of this thread was (and still is) *"Does your art involve Ki?"*  Not, "do you think ki really exists"?

Sorry...had to vent.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 15, 2006)

Henderson said:
			
		

> :-offtopic
> 
> I'm know I'm going off topic here, but at what point did this topic stop being a discussion and start being a contest to see who can say "I'm right and You're wrong" more often, and in the greatest variations.  I believe the original title of this thread was (and still is) *"Does your art involve Ki?"*  Not, "do you think ki really exists"?
> 
> Sorry...had to vent.


Good point.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, debate on the existence of chi has been split off. Please continue that discussion there.
Thank you.


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## RoninPimp (Apr 15, 2006)

Ki training is not a part of the BJJ and Judo I train in.


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## Henderson (Apr 15, 2006)

Qigong is practiced at our school.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 20, 2006)

It is talked about at my school occasionally, being pointed out here and there, in exercises, or when your hands are shaking during the workout. However, people don't seem to be into that, or take it with a grain of salt. It's usually just training. I guess it's a matter of progression towards enlightenment, and where one is on the path.


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## Apollo (Apr 21, 2006)

Not in my art no, but some of the stuff I've cross trained into does delve into it more or less. Interesting concepts though.


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## green meanie (Apr 22, 2006)

It's there but we don't talk about it too much... you sort of have to sneak up on it.


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## CuongNhuka (May 6, 2006)

Cuong Nhu does. Mostly in the upper ranks (about the last third to black belt and up). We also do Kiai's. Sometimes called a 'shout' in tkd and the like. That is were they came from. The belief is that the shout (which should come from the lower abdominal area) sorta works like turning off the breach valve on a dam. All the water (ki) comes surging out, and is nearly unstoppable. John


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## gmkuoha (May 8, 2006)

It is our foundation!


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## mantis (May 8, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> In a sense, but I don't believe chi exists
> 
> to make that clearer... a lot of the same principles/effects attributed to chi will be used in any art, but are explained differently.
> 
> ...



people think of 'chi' as a voodoo thing. some kind of a mystery. 
in old times people realized it's there but did not know how to justify it.  in 2006 we should be able to realize what it is.  my understanding of is it's the air circulation in your body.  air circulation promotes also blood circulations which in turn promotes good health.  
i do not want to go into bio stuff, but when you have oxygen, and blood flowing into your muscles you obviously get less fatigue and you enjoy higher endurance and better health.  

when you meditate, what are you doing? you are only breathing deeply to expand your tendon, to massage your internal organs, and let more oxygen into your muscles.  i.e. chi does exist


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## blackeye (Aug 12, 2006)

I use ki in my wing chun training as well as variour other ki control exercises. It's proven much stronger and effective than physical strength for me.


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## pstarr (Aug 12, 2006)

Learning to manipulate and emit chi is central to the art that I teach (Yiliquan) and students begin learning the fundamentals while they're still novices.


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## blackeye (Aug 12, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> Learning to manipulate and emit chi is central to the art that I teach (Yiliquan) and students begin learning the fundamentals while they're still novices.



This Yiliquan sounds interesting, it's a form of quigong or kung fu right? I plan on learning wing chun and tai chi but I may have to find more information on yiliquan too, since all the martial arts I want to learn focus on chi. Anyone know a place that teaches yiliquan in Omaha NE?


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## matt.m (Aug 12, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> I don't believe any particular art has these quality, but the individual has the ability to produce it themself at the proper time.
> 
> TKD does not have chi or Ki power but yet we use it everyday when we do something outstanding outside our own personal relm of behavior.
> Terry


 
Terry,

I could not agree with you more.


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## pstarr (Aug 13, 2006)

blackeye said:
			
		

> This Yiliquan sounds interesting, it's a form of quigong or kung fu right? I plan on learning wing chun and tai chi but I may have to find more information on yiliquan too, since all the martial arts I want to learn focus on chi. Anyone know a place that teaches yiliquan in Omaha NE?


 
    Yes!  As it happens, I teach in Omaha.  Currently, we're renting space at Midwest Taekwondo, located at 8812 Blondo.  Classes are Wed. 7:30-8:30pm, Fri. 7:00-8:30pm, and Sat. 5:00-7:00pm.

     Feel free to stop in and visit!


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## blackeye (Aug 13, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> Yes!  As it happens, I teach in Omaha.  Currently, we're renting space at Midwest Taekwondo, located at 8812 Blondo.  Classes are Wed. 7:30-8:30pm, Fri. 7:00-8:30pm, and Sat. 5:00-7:00pm.
> 
> Feel free to stop in and visit!



NO ****ing WAY!!! That Omaha thing was a total shot in the dark. I didn't even think anyone would respond to it! I had been looking into taking classes at muy yat ving tsun kung fu school but I'm definietly going to check out yours befor I make up my mind. Could I come by and watch the wednesday class?


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 14, 2006)

Alright this is getting scary. Know why?
A. I live in Omaha
2. My sensei lives in Omaha
last my sensei is cross training in Muy Yat Ving Tsun. 

weird.


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## pstarr (Aug 14, 2006)

Sure, feel free to stop in!  This week, we're beginning our Wed. night class at 7:30 pm.  You're certainly more than welcome!


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## DavidCC (Aug 14, 2006)

weird how that works out isn't it?

 "when the student is ready..."

It's good to hear you are still teaching YiLiquan Sifu Starr, I thought you had stopped and were just doing the qigong classes downtown.  I was going to start attending those but your old student Tim H. has instead been helping me learn the meditations.

Best of Everything to you,
David C.

PS - Tim has also shown me some YiLi and I would recommed if you guys are interested, go check it out.  There could be no better teacher of the system than Sifu Pete Starr.


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## pstarr (Aug 15, 2006)

Thanks, David!

     That's very flattering!     You're sure welcome to stop in and visit!


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## jasonearle (Aug 16, 2006)

I love all the chi and meditation work.  its the most interesting to me.  we use it to add power to our strikes, as well as different applications in meditation, such as seeing without eyes(if that makes sense), chi transfer healing, and basic meditation exercises to relax and what not.   there is so much more to learn that it is just so exciting the potential of it.  The first time I actually used my chi to "heal" someone was amazing.  the guy had smashed his hand and it swelled up and turned all blue-purpleish.  I worked on him for about 15 min.  Felt like my whole body was buzzing.  he said he felt energy pushing his hand down, even though I wasn't touching it.  Afterwards, the swelling had gone down a little and the color dissapated a little.  We were on a break at work so I could of gone longer but obviously couldn't, but it was crazy stuff.


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## ech33 (Nov 5, 2006)

my arts basically involve chi in generating power as well as speed.


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## PeaceWarrior (Nov 7, 2006)

Short answer: Yes.  I study wing chun, and we develop ki/chi by repetition of Si Nim Tao with correct breathing and posture.  Chi is furthur developed through two more forms, but these are for more advanced practitioners than I.  It is no walk in the park though, the form must be repeated many times with good focus and complete relaxation to develop the exploding energy (fa jing)  which to most people would look very external (tense) at first but is actually very very relaxed, an explosive power as opposed to a resistive strength.  I believe very much in ki/chi as I have seen it demonstrated many times (real chi- not just "newtonian physics")


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## Matthew Glover (Nov 7, 2006)

In Lung Shou Pai we don't really do any sort of work with qi in the lower levels.  We do some very simple meditation/visualisation stuff and we have some breath control exercises involving coordinating breathing patterns with particular stance and body movements.  None of this is ever really described as "qi" or anything of that nature at this point in our system.

I'm told that in the senior levels (starting after four years or so of study in the basics) there is quite a bit of internal energy work, and those breath control exercises are the foundation for some of it.  I'm very nearly at the point where I'll get to start studying this stuff and I'm looking forward to exploring it.

Personally, I'm not a believer in qi.  At heart I'm a skeptic. So far I haven't seen anything to convince me that there's any substance to the concept of internal energy aside from highly refined technique and mechanics.  Maybe when I actually start working on it I'll change my mind, but I strongly doubt it.


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## Mike Hamer (Jan 14, 2007)

ai KI do


nuff said.


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## mtabone (Jan 15, 2007)

Tang Soo Do involves Ki, as well as many hyungs (forms) to help cultivate ki.:asian:

Michael Tabone


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## Steel Tiger (Jan 15, 2007)

Baguazhang, like xingyi and taiji, is an internal Chinese art so qi is essential to its practise.  The fundamental movements of bagua, circle walking, is a form of qi gong.

In addition we practise a still form of qi gong called Golden Bell Cover to supplement circle walking.


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## Kiseiki (Jan 28, 2007)

Um...I know the topic hasn't been posted in for a long time, but I am very enthusiastic about chi, so please don't mind my addition.

For what I practice, chi is absolutely essential!  I think I've heard from my superiors that we normally study chakra first, but I haven't been taught much of that just yet.  Our chi is centered around elements, with each person having his or her own special set based on personality and how the element is reflected in nature.  I happen to be of the Ice element, and do you want to know what is scary?  After I meditate for just a little while, my finger tips become freezing cold, yet the rest of my body is warm, right up to my palms!  I know that chi is a controversial subject, but I fully believe in it.  I use it for healing, and I have been lucky enough to see it.  Chakra is invisible, but chi has the potential to be seen if it's strong enough within the person.  It's different for each person, but my chi is a combination of white rays extending from my fingertips and a strange white afterglow when I move my hands slowly.  Now, to clarify, it's not bright and vivid and neon with flashing lights; it's a little bit faint, and you do have to look a little bit close to see it.  I have had an unattuned person walk into my room while I was practicing before and ask me what it was.  I really thought I was dead meat at that point, but I got off without too many questions...


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## barnaby (Feb 10, 2007)

"I happen to be of the Ice element, and do you want to know what is scary? After I meditate for just a little while, my finger tips become freezing cold yet the rest of my body is warm, right up to my palms! "

this is interesting to me.  I have never heard of the ice element.  from my studies of Qi Gong in the past several years, I would have thought that this pointed to a particular block, and would consider asking my teacher to help the chi flow through that area with tui-na or a quick adjustment.  I myself am sometimes cold in the thumbs only, for example, and work to have chi flow everywhere, but you seem to be talking about an intentional cold -- could you elaborate?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 10, 2007)

ice = water


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