# Modern Arnis Lineage List or chart



## Bob

Cut and Pasted from the WMAC forum


> Hello Modern Arnis Clan,
> 
> No doubt, good, bad, and indifferent, we are just that a very large worldwide group of Modern Arnis practitioners.
> 
> I have been assigned the task by a major Martial Arts Publication to compile a list of all the senior students of Professor Presas and form a chart of sorts as to lineage in the system.
> 
> This will be a non political attempt to share this information with readers worldwide and establish some form of order and progression as to who has been a part of the art and for how long.
> 
> I will also ask for assistance from key people to research the worldwide web search engine for names connected with Modern Arnis and try to include as many practitioners as possible.
> 
> Criteria will include Name, Rank, date received, Country, time in the art, certification directly from Remy A. Presas, and a minimum of a 3rd degree black belt grading. This may have to be changed to 4th or even 5th degree depending on the size of the list.
> 
> No major statements will be listed with each name, if you have people in mind and would like to include this information for status of position and recognition for inclusion it may help in deciding who will be listed but it is not a who has done what article only a listing of potential lineage practitioners to be included in the article or chart.
> 
> This is a big request, especially to keep non political, but like I said it is for a Major Publication and only a certain amount of time will be allowed to voice your contribution and list those you feel stand within the perimeter mentioned.
> 
> I will confirm information with other instructors who may not even like or respect each other but I think it is important enough to open the door for all to be listed who have contributed support to Modern Arnis and Professor Presas.
> 
> To some degree individuals such as Bruce Jutnick and Rick Alemedy could be included(many are historical references) but for the most part "recognized active involvement" in the art of Modern Arnis should be a part of the criteria.
> 
> If an individual has passed away he could be included as well if his contribution to the art is valid, he will be listed as deceased but part of the seniority lineage.
> 
> This opportunity may never come again so speak now or forever complain!
> 
> You may list the names here, or e-mail directly to kellyworden@attbi.com
> 
> Thank you for your input...
> 
> Kelly S. Worden
> _________________


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## Cruentus

Good luck with that one!


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## Bob

Taken from the WMAC forum


> In general here are some names from the tribe in no specific order:
> Terry Wareham-Colorado 3rd.degree
> Tony Silverio-Conn. 4th degree started 1985
> Willie Annung-Philippines (Deceased)
> Randi Shea-Texas 5th degree
> Rodillio Dagooc-Philippines 8th degree started 1969
> Vicente Sanchez-Philippines 8th degree started 1970
> Jay Spiro- Detroit 4th degree started 1986
> Micheal Donovan-Ontario 4th degree
> Jim Ladis- Chicago 5th degree started-1989
> Shishir Inocalla-Canada-Philippines Datu
> Chuck Gauss-Michigan 5 th degree started 1989
> Bob Quinn-Atlanta 5th degree
> Roland Dantes-Austrailia-Philippines 8th degree
> Remy Presas Jr.- Philippines-California Punong Guru started 1969
> Demitrio Presas -Philippines-California Punong Guru
> Mary Ann Presas-Philippines-California Punong guru
> Roland Rivera-N. Carolina 3rd degree
> Dieter Knuttel-Germany "Datu" 6th degree
> Scott VanDerzee-Mich. 3rd degree started 1986
> Dan Carr-Buffalo 5th degree
> Ernesto Presas-Philippines Grandmaster Presas Style
> Roberto Presas-Philippines
> David Hoffman-Boston "Datu" 5th degree?
> Tim Hartman-N.Y. "Datu" 6th degree
> David Ng-N.Carolina 4th degree
> Richard Roy-Mass. 5th degree
> Brian Zawilinski-Conn. 5th degree 1985
> Ric Bong Sun Jornales-Michigan "Datu" 6th degree
> Dan McConnell-Ohio 3rd degree started 1992
> Lee Lowry 6th degree
> Murlino Hufano- Washington 4th degree
> Jerome Barber-Buffalo ?
> Micheal Bates-Phil. ?
> Ken Smith-Chicago 5th degree started 1990
> David Converse-Chicago 5th degree
> Bram Frank-Florida ?
> Jeremias de la Cruz-Philippines started 1970
> Joe Breidenstein-Phil. 4th degree
> Tom Bolden-N.Y. ?
> Al Garza-Texas 3rd degree started 1990
> Doug Pierre-N.Y. ?
> Gabriele Roloff-Germany 5th degree started 1984
> Mike Morton-Washington ?
> Jeff Delaney-Texas 5th degree started 1990
> Kelly Worden-Washington "Datu" 6th degree started 1982
> 
> Additional names will be added as the information comes available, I want to thank those who bumped an e-mail and provided names. Further clarification on current status- active or inactive status may be included depending on space.
> Historical references might be added separately to the lineage chart for those who have come and gone if space permits.
> Just to reiterate a point of reference, a certain amount of research will be conducted to establish this Lineage Chart and clarify status in Modern Arnis. Those not willing to provide their information will be left out, this is history being colaborated, step up or step out!
> Thank You,
> Kelly S. Worden
> ________________


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## arnisador

Thanks, it's interesting to have this information.


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## Bob

Arnisador
 Thanks for the support. 
Info taken from the WMAC Forum


> During conversations with different people about this project there seems to be two thoughts of validity. One is that only current people should be included, the other is that all people who acheived rank should be included and it should be broken down into generations. After consideration I think the most important direction would be to include all students that acheived at least Blackbelt rank to give a valid reflection of Professor's impact on the Industry.
> Due to the nature of Professor Presas' travels and different phases of the art, the lineage will be broken down into the following Generations.
> 
> Generation 1 includes those involved in founding of Modern Arnis, this list is fairly complete now.
> 
> Generation 2 includes those that were a part of the group during the NARAPHIL era.
> 
> Generation 3 will be those involved with Professor when he arrived here in the U.S. early 70's.
> 
> Generation 4 will be those involved from late 70's until his passing.
> 
> All individuals will be concidered for inclusion, but ranking directly from Professor is required to be in the Lineage Chart.
> You may list the names here, or e-mail directly to kellyworden@attbi.com
> 
> Thank you for your input...
> 
> Here are more names submitted via e-mail:
> 
> Lorenzo Presas - cousin of Remy
> Leonard Trigg-Oregon
> Barbara Bones
> Janesa Kruse
> Jeff Arnold
> Rocky Pawsik
> Jun Makanano
> Dean Stockwell
> Frank Scalercio
> Dr. Lengson
> Max Pallen
> Jose E. Bueno
> Fred King
> Herb Blue
> Dan Verdugo
> Fred Shadian
> Kelly Yuen
> Rick Alemany
> Bruce Juchnik
> 
> Kelly S. Worden


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## Bob

Info taken from the WMAC forum


> Hi Kelly,
> 
> here are the my students, that received a Modern Arnis rank after a grading directly from the Professor. There are at least half a dozend more 3rd Dans, but they got the rank for example from the grading with Roland Dantes this year or from our German ranking commission, like Alfred Plath for example, who made 3rd Dan in 1991 already and of course some of my Scandinavian students.
> There are no other 4th or 5th Dans within the DAV. They are complete and examined by the Professor.
> 
> The years of the beginning of the training are with some people approximate, could be wrong by one year.
> 
> Anyway, were is the list of the German black belts from 3rd to 6th Dan.
> 
> 
> 
> Name - rank/year of the rank - start of the Arnis training
> 
> Datu Dieter Knüttel - 6th Dan/1996 - 1978
> 
> Hans Karrer - 5 th Dan/1999 - 1979
> Jorgen Gydesen - 5 th Dan/1999 - 1983
> 
> Peter Rutkowski - 4th Dan/1999 - 1984
> Carsten Hemmersbach - 4 th Dan/1999 - 1988
> 
> Helmut Meisel - 3rd Dan/1996 - 1984
> Michael Jux - 3 rd Dan/1996 - 1982
> Simone Schlötels - 3 rd Dan/1996 - 1987
> Sunny Graff - 3 rd Dan/1999 - 1985
> Kall Wall - 3rd Dan/1999 - 1984
> Albert Diemer - 3rd Dan/1999 - 1984
> Sven Barchfeld - 3rd Dan/1999 - 1985
> Bernd Vieth - 3rd Dan/1999 - 1988
> Roland Schültke - 3rd Dan/1999 - 1991
> Siegfried Derwisch - 3rd Dan/1999 - 1985
> 
> 
> 
> So much for that, good luck with your lineage. I am sure it is a lot of work.
> 
> 
> Best regards from Germany
> 
> 
> Dieter Knüttel
> Datu of Modenr Arnis
> _________________
> http://www.abanico.de
> ABANICO Video Productions
> http://www.modern-arnis.de
> Modern Arnis Germany


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## Bob

Info taken from WMAC forum


> From: <ModArnis@aol.com>
> To: <kellyworden@attbi.com>
> Subject: Lineage
> Date: Friday, November 22, 2002 3:54 AM
> 
> Datu Worden,
> 
> You might also include Janet Aalfs 4th from Massachussetts. She started in
> 1981 when Lee Lowry did. I believe Doug Pierre is a 4th as well. Bob Quinn
> started about the same time. Bob, Tony Silverio and Brian Zawilinski all
> trained with Lee Lowry at that time.
> 
> Brett Salafia
> Connecticut
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> THANKS FOR SENDING THE ADDRESS OF KERRY....THE EVENTS THAT HAPPENED
> BETWEEN GEN. VER AND REMY ARE TRUE AND I WAS A WITNESS TO THIS... I
> EVEN HAD TO PERSONNALY ACCOMPANY REMY TO BOARD HIS FLIGHT TO THE UNITED
> STATES TO HELP FACILITATE HIS MILITARY CLEARANCE AT THE TIME BECAUSE
> THE COUNTRY ( PHILIPPINES ) WAS IN A STATE OF MARTIAL LAW !
> WITH REGARDS TO DR. FRANK SCALERCIO...HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN ARRANGING
> SEMINARS FOR REMY IN THE EARLY 70'S ...PARTICULARLY WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT
> AGENCIES IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA...INCLUDING CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS
> AT THE FAMOUS SAN QUENTIN PRISON PENITENTIARY !....IN FACT FRANK SCALERCIO
> JUST CALLED ME UP THE OTHER DAY TO INFORM ME THAT HE IS ARRIVING IN THE PHILIPPINES NEXT WEEK
> SO I WILL BE MEETING UP WITH HIM SOON !
> WELL BROTHER...I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST IN ALL YOUR PROJECTS !
> CARRY ON BRO ...YOU'RE DOING GREAT !
> 
> SINCERELY,
> ROLAND
> P.S. REGARDS TO EVERYONE !
> _________________
> Kelly S. Worden


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## Bob

Info taken from the WMAC forum



> More Oregonians to the list
> Name - State - Black Belt Degree
> 
> Tim Dawdy - Oregon - 1st
> Dinnelle Wright - Oregon - 1st
> Fred King - Oregon - 5th
> Tim Gustavson - Oregon - 1st
> Tyler Stone - Oregon - 1st
> Kevin Worden - Oregon - 1st
> Lynn Anderson - Oregon - 4th
> Charles Blodgett (deceased) - Oregon - 1st
> 
> Dan Anderson


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## Bob

Info taken from the WMAC forum


> Thank you Dan Anderson for some of the Oregon names, additionally I'm working on including all blackbelts to the list so if that is a good thing, please keep the names rolling in!
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Irwin Carmichael
> Rick Mitchell
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sunny Graff und Bernd Vieth
> 3rd Dan Modern Arnis
> Tested by Professor Remy Presas
> 29. Oktober 1999
> Frankfurt Germany
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Mr. Worden- I think you have your work cut out for you, but I am happy to help any way I can. I was a student of Remy from 1983 to 1985. I attended the first two summer camps in West Virginia and in Pennsylvania, and received my black belt directly from Remy.
> I still have the original lists of the people who actually attended those camps, so if you ever need to verify someone's claim, I can probably help, at least for that particular time period. One note though, I am working in Saudi Arabia right now and the lists are in storage in the US. I plan to be back next June/July, but couldn't get to them before then.
> Good luck with your effort. Take care. Steven C. Drape Chief Instructor, KBS System http://www.kbs-system.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hello Kelly,
> In response to your post on eskrima digest. thanks,
> Guro Andrew "tattoo" Filardo started training under Professor Presas 1985 recieved advanced inst. certificate late 1986 from Professor, with Lee Lowery, Bowden Sween, Michael Morton, on board.
> 
> 4th degree black belt 1999
> Owner - M.F.A. academy, N.Y.Modern Arnisfull contact stickfightingboxing/kickboxing
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _________________
> Kelly S. Worden



I encourage everyone to share info.  Martial talk has a large following of Modern Arnis people, so don't be shy. Either send a private email to Datu Worden or post on either Martial talk, or WMAC forum. This is an important project, so speak out or for ever hold your peace......
 Thanks in advance for any help you may give to this project.... 
Bob


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## Datu Tim Hartman

Bob,
    I'll give the Buffalo, NY list the best I can.

Jerome Barber 3rd
Kevin Black      3rd
Dan Carr          ???
Bob Chesbro    3rd
Tim Hartman    6th
Jeff Rech          3rd
Don Zanghi      ???


In Buffalo we produced 33 Black Belts that had tested in front of Remy himself. The list above are the 3rd degrees and higher. If you need any help let me know. I worked on a simular project in the past.

Respectfully yours,
Tim Hartman


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## Bob

Datu Hartman
Thanks

Bob


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## Bob

1st quote Taken from the Escrima digest

This is only part of the story. Please do your own research to find out the missing pieces. (Disclaimer: this post is not intended to start a flame war or a political battle. The argument between Datu Worden and Mr. Jay De Long was long before the "Lineage request" came up....)


> Mr. Worden,
> 
> You wrote that Generation 2 includes those that were a part of the group
> during the NARAPHIL era.
> 
> During our last e-mail exchange back in September, in reference to my Modern
> Arnis training via NARAPHIL, you took me (and NARAPHIL) to task and wrote
> "NARAPHIL was a direct insult to Remy Presas!"
> 
> Could you please explain the seeming contradiction between your two
> statements?  Has your recent review of NARAPHIL history revealed to you that
> there were many dedicated Modern Arnis practitioners in NARAPHIL loyal to
> the Presases who can claim legitimate Modern Arnis lineage?
> 
> I would say that Generation 2 would be made up of hundreds of legitimate
> Modern Arnis practitioners, both Filipino and non-Filipino (I guess
> depending on how you define "senior student" and "ranking") And by the way,
> how can you personally ascertain who was a legitimate and loyal Generation 2
> Modern Arnis practitioner?  Will you be plowing and poring over NARAPHIL
> records covering at least a dozen years in the Philippines?
> 
> Mr. Worden, as a late rebuttal to your last e-mail, I would like to state
> unequivocably that I have no intention or desire to meddle in, influence or
> capitalize on Modern Arnis affairs, including your lineage chart.  But I
> will express my opinions (solicited or otherwise, on any topic that
> interests me), just as hundreds have done and do in MA magazines, internet
> digests and forums, etc.  Again, I feel privileged to have known and trained
> with Prof. Presas, and many outstanding Modern Arnis masters in the
> Philippines and U.S.
> 
> Good luck with your project; that is a daunting task.
> 
> Jay de Leon



This quote taken from the WMAC forum....


> To reply to Jay de Leon or other interested and concerned individuals,
> 
> This is a task I and others are doing as a favor to Inside Kung Fu Editor Dave Cater mainly to get an idea of what is happening with Modern Arnis. The request and project is to establish an outline as to who has been a part of Modern Arnis over the years and who is still actively involved.
> 
> As mentioned in the outline or guidelines for inclusion there is a timeline on the submitting the results.
> Ideally, others will have concerns or care and submit names that they feel fit the criteria, simple as that. I will with the help of other knowledgeable people put them in order of when they participated in Modern Arnis, that is why the year they started is important.
> 
> Weather I personally feel or others feel NARAPHIL or 2nd Generation practitioners had a riff or political issue with Professor is unimportant in this effort. Professor had more than one riff or conflict throughout his long martial arts career in the Philippines, U.S., Europe, or Worldwide for that matter.
> What martial arts group or leader has not experienced splintering?
> It is not my desire to address this issue nor my concern, only to establish the practitioners that choose to step forward and claim their spot in Modern Arnis history and lineage. The only key point here is being a part of lineage and history.
> Am I going to toil away for endless hours on this daunting task searching records throughout the world? NO!
> At the required deadline to submit a report I will do just that submit it! Will it have every name who ever trained with Professor on it?
> No, but I do know the chart will be more complete than it ever has in the past. Additionally, that effort Mr. de Leon will be more of an effort than has been offered in the past! If you or anyone else would like to submit names, dates, and ranks of people you know, please do. I am in contact with people in the Philippines, the U.S. and other countries who will remember almost any name that may be submitted.
> If by chance during this first effort names are not listed, obtained, or substantial acknowledgement of their status cannot be verified a second effort could be launched. Possibly at some time in the future when another publication or governing martial arts body requests the information additional attention may be directed to include a more complete directory of names and dates.
> This current effort is one I and others are attempting, if it appears to be lacking some of the credible people of the past, let them step forth and do the work themselves, simple as that!
> Like it says in the outline, "SPEAK NOW OR FOREVER COMPLAIN !"
> 
> Records that were never kept may be lost forever, all that can be done today is to try,
> Sincerely, Kelly S. Worden


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## Bob

Personal email posted on the WMAC forum


> Dear Mr. Worden:
> 
> Recently a student e-mailed me some info from the Escrima Digest, re: you drumming up a list of Modern Arnis old-timers (or something to that effect). I am assuming that commo was/is for real. SO........
> 
> I dragged out my old certificates. Got the Lakan/Basic Instructor parchment, dated August 6, 1983, signed by J. Arnold, M. Replogle, and Remy Presas. This from the West Virginia camp; I did two weeks back to back there, as did Irey Cobb (Oklahoma) and Mike Morton (KS and CO). On the second week Joe Breidenstein showed up--surely you've heard of him. He was the org secretary for some time back then. He also hosted a weeklong camp in Phily in 1985, where I retested for Lakan.
> 
> I managed to catch up with Remy here and there for the next decade or so, and in 1993 (11 July) picked up Lakan Dalawa, at Terry Wareham's North Central annual camp. This parchment was signed by Remy only.
> 
> That is to say, I consider myself an active, organizationally-unattached 2nd degree black belt, with Remy Presas as my sole instructor in the art. I had considerable MA background prior to meeting up with Remy, so it was pretty fast and easy to pick up, as you probably understand.
> 
> Over the years I've read about you, and some interview(s), and am impressed with what you seem to be doing. Hope to have the opportunity to train with you sometime.
> 
> I'd like to ask two short favors: (1) Who are the three persons Remy named as master level, other than yourself, and (2) Also--what is the publication/date?
> 
> Thank you and good luck!
> 
> Randy Fey
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> .2
> here's the names of my students who have 1st degrees who tested with
> Professor Presas...@ the Florida camps
> Jerry Pinada
> Jody Mehlman-Florida
> John Ralston-Louisiana
> David Shor- Texas
> Tony Torre- Florida
> Dr David Mc Gee- West Virginia
> Michael Haack- Florida
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bruce Chiu.. he's a 3rd or 4th.. now living in Virginia
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> W. Hock Hochheim
> 2nd Degree Black
> Every test, every bit of training from Remy directly, in privates,
> semi-privates and seminars.
> 1989 to 1996.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> M. Replogle
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _________________
> Kelly S. Worden



I am posting this info for the Modern Arnis people that do not cross over to the WMAC forum. This is not an attempt to gain more readers. This is just an attempt at sharing information that seems to be important to all Modern Arnis players. If you have information that would assist Datu Worden please email him personally or post it here on Martial Talk. com or http://uechi-ryu-temp.ath.cx/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8888 

Take care 
Bob


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## Bob Hubbard

Hi Bob.
  No worries.  Its a great project and I'm sure I'm not alone in saying we can't wait to see the complete lineage.


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## modarnis

Connecticut Area Modern Arnis Blackbelts

Lee Lowery 6th
Brian Zawilinski 5th
Tony Silverio 4th
Wayne Tanguay 2nd
Brett Salafia 2nd
Paul Kisckum 1st
Bill Boisvert 1st
LeeAnne Brophy 1st
Lizz D'Atri (Bradstreet) 1st
Jan Sternberg (Deceased) 1st


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## Datu Tim Hartman

Not that I think most of the people are doing this , but I assume that this black belt list that Datu Worden is putting together is for promotion done by Remy and not by the organizations since his retirement. When I did this back in the 90's I had the black belts send a copy of their diplomas to prevent any problems.


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## dearnis.com

People elevating their rank?  In the martial arts world?  No!  It could never happen!

OK, seriously....
Delaware Modern Arnis (ie my people in the Delaware area)
Myself: Lakan Isa
Bruce Benson: Lakan
Lexy Malone: Dayang (inactive)
Cory Wickersham : recieved Lakan from Professor prior to training with me

The question comes up from time time so I will touch on it real briefly.  I am not, and was not ever, involved with Jim and/or Judy Clapp beyond attending one "big three" seminar at their school so I can't comment on them, nor can I give the rankings of their people.
Jim recieved a 5th from Professor; Judy either a 4th or a 5th.  
Chad


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## DoctorB

Below is a post that I submitted to the WMAC forum earlier today
and I believe that it fits loosely into this and at least one other thread on this forum.

JB

---------------------------------------------------



> ="Kelly S. Worden"]Hey Dan,
> Thanks for touching base and providing the information, of course any other practitioners you can pass the word to would be benificial. This really is a valuable opportunity to accumulate a list of players.
> In general here are some names from the tribe in no specific order:
> Terry Wareham-Colorado 3rd.degree
> Tony Silverio-Conn. 4th degree started 1985
> Willie Annung-Philippines (Deceased)
> Randi Shea-Texas 5th degree
> Rodillio Dagooc-Philippines 8th degree started 1969
> Vicente Sanchez-Philippines 8th degree started 1970
> Jay Spiro- Detroit  4th degree started 1986
> Micheal Donovan-Ontario 4th degree
> Jim Ladis- Chicago 5th degree  started-1989
> Shishir Inocalla-Canada-Philippines Datu
> Chuck Gauss-Michigan 5 th degree started 1989
> Bob Quinn-Atlanta 5th degree
> Roland Dantes-Austrailia-Philippines 8th degree
> Remy Presas Jr.- Philippines-California Punong Guru started 1969
> Demitrio Presas -Philippines-California Punong Guru
> Mary Ann Presas-Philippines-California Punong guru
> Roland Rivera-N. Carolina 3rd degree
> Dieter Knuttel-Germany "Datu" 6th degree
> Scott VanDerzee-Mich. 3rd degree started 1986
> Dan Carr-Buffalo 5th degree
> Ernesto Presas-Philippines Grandmaster Presas Style
> Roberto Presas-Philippines
> David Hoffman-Boston "Datu" 5th degree?
> Tim Hartman-N.Y. "Datu" 6th degree
> David Ng-N.Carolina 4th degree
> Richard Roy-Mass. 5th degree
> Brian Zawilinski-Conn. 5th degree 1985
> Ric Bong Sun Jornales-Michigan "Datu" 6th degree
> Dan McConnell-Ohio 3rd degree started 1992
> Lee Lowry 6th degree
> Murlino Hufano- Washington 4th degree
> Jerome Barber-Buffalo ?
> Micheal Bates-Phil. ?
> Ken Smith-Chicago 5th degree started 1990
> David Converse-Chicago 5th degree
> Bram Frank-Florida ?
> Jeremias de la Cruz-Philippines started 1970
> Joe Breidenstein-Phil. 4th degree
> Tom Bolden-N.Y. ?
> Al Garza-Texas 3rd degree started 1990
> Doug Pierre-N.Y. ?
> Gabriele Roloff-Germany 5th degree started 1984
> Mike Morton-Washington ?
> Jeff Delaney-Texas 5th degree started 1990
> Kelly Worden-Washington "Datu" 6th degree started 1982
> 
> Kelly S. Worden



Very Nice Job, Kelly.  This is quite a task to bring about to a positive conclusion and I love seeing so many names that i recognize from my
past years in Modern Arnis - my time started in 1981, in Buffalo, NY.

All of these names just make me feel that there is certinly a need for for the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium, that I am hosting in July in Buffalo.  We will not have enough time and openings for everyone to take an instructional opportunity, but given just the names above, plus those that have come in since the post that I am quoted, just boggles my mind.  

There are just so many people who could add so much information and background on this art.  My contention from the first day that I proposed the Symposium idea was that the art is much bigger than most people realize.  There are far more "senior" people within Modern Arnis than most people are aware of over the long haul of time.

I was quite fortunate to have studied with one of the first IMAF Area Representatives, Sifu Don Zanghi begining in 1981.  He had contact with a number of the first major people to get invilved with Modern Arnis in the mid to late 70's.  That allowed me and my fellow students under Zanghi to meet, train and talk some of those same people, like Bowden Sween, Barbra Bones, Jeansa Krause, Shishiir Inocalla, Joe Bridenstein, Tom Bolden, Steve Drake, Jay Spiro, Dan Anderson, Fred King and Dennis Toelston.  

I did not personally meet all of these folks, but between Sifu Zanghi and my classmates, we met them all.  Anyone who is opposed to the 2003 Symposium is really turning his/her back on the roots of Modern Arnis history.  I certinly hope that this project goes forward and I also hope that some people will now, better undertand why I am going to be hosting the 2003 Symposium.   

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Datu Tim Hartman

Tim Hartman 6th Degree produced the following students.


1. Kevin Black................3rd Black......Lakan Tatlo 
2. Jeff Rech....................3rd Black......Lakan Tatlo
3. Jeffery Leader............2nd Black.....Lakan Dalawa
4. Ron Murcin.................2nd Black.....Lakan Dalawa
5. Mike Alfano.................1st Black.....Lakan Isa 
6. Mike Antecki................1st Black.....Lakan Isa 
7. A. Paul Dawdy............1st Black......Lakan Isa (Canada)
8. John CS Lehmann.......1st Black......Lakan Isa
9. Paul OGrady...............1st Black......Lakan Isa
10.Amy Antecki................Black...........Dayang
11.David Battaglia...........Black...........Lakan (belt revoked by GM Presas)
12.Gene Cunningham......Black...........Lakan 
13.George Harris.............Black...........Lakan
14.Primo Luciano.............Black...........Lakan
15.Mark Mosler................Black...........Lakan
16.Mike Milazzo...............Black...........Lakan
17.David Pajak................Black...........Lakan
18.Mike Rogers................Black...........Lakan
19.Tim Unger...................Black...........Lakan
20.Jordan Yee.................Black...........Lakan

This is a list of my students that were promoted by GM Remy Presas and were issued VALID IMAF certificates. I am missing one listing which I'll put up when I can find him in my records.


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## arnisador

John Bryant, who recvd his black belt in the early 80s (I believe) but who has been inactive for some time, to the best of my knowledge. He opened the first Buffalo-area school; indeed, one of the first Modern Arnis schools.


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## Datu Tim Hartman

John moved a couple times. I will have the entire Buffalo list up by the end of the weekend.


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## arnisador

Do you know whether he is still active in arnis or not?


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## Datu Tim Hartman

Not.


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *John Bryant, who recvd his black belt in the early 80s (I believe) but who has been inactive for some time, to the best of my knowledge. He opened the first Buffalo-area school; indeed, one of the first Modern Arnis schools. *



Hi Arnisador,

I want to offer a corrrection to your post.  The first school to teach Modern Arnis in the Buffalo area was owned and operated by Sifu Don Zanghi.  He was John Bryant's instructor.  Sifu Zanghi was also the only Buffalo area instructor to attend the two week camps in Washington State in the late 1970s.  He operated his school under the "Fighting Back Institute" name and he served as the first IMAF Area Representative.  Sifu Zanghi taught Tracy System Kenpo and Modern Arnis as co-equals from white through black belt, begining in 1979.  

John Bryant attended the week long camps in PA in 1980 and 81.  In 1981, Professor Presas, pulled John aside, at the Ardmore, PA camp and promoted him to Lakan, without Sifu Zanghi's, knowledge and consent.  At the time John, had just earned his first brown belt promotion from Sifu Zanghi.  John came back to Buffalo and opened the "Filipino Martial Arts Academy".  He taught Modern Arnis, exclusively, however, Sifu Zanghi remained the IMAF Area Representative for another 3 years.  I will not go into the hard feelings that resulted from John's promotion by Professor.

I believe that Tim Hartman became a student of the FMAA in 1983, and by that time Dave Smith and Tammy Wilson were the instrutional assistants and they were on their way to earning their Lakan grades, from Professor.  Tammy was the first female 
in NY State to earn the Lakan/Dayang rank in Modern Arnis.  There was one other women associated with John, who was close to earning a lakan, but she dropped out of training.

Don Zanghi had three females who went to the Likah/ Brown Belt levels but none of them tested for Lakan status.  Several people that Tim has listed in a post above as his black belts were actually classmates of mine at the Zanghi School and had earned Likah ranks prior to the closing of the "Fighting Back Insitute" - Tim and I worked with those people for about 18 months before they want to the Michigan Camp, where they tested and earned their Lakans - Jeff Rech and Tim Unger - David Battaglia, earned his Lakan two years later in Buffalo, although David is senior to all of us in terms of time in Modern Arnis training.

Since I was involved in the Zanghi group from 1981, I think I have a very accurate picture of the history behing Modern Arnis in the Buffalo area and what I am reporting is not second hand or hearsay information.  Battaglia and I completed our training under Sifu Zanghi and received our Shodan and Lakan gradings through him, as well as earning Lakan status from Professor Presas, in Modern Arnis.

David is teaching Modern Arnis and Aikido in Kenmore, NY and I am teaching Modern Arnis, Pancipanci Eskrima and Tracy Kenpo 
at both a private school in Hamburg, NY and at Erie Community College in Orcghard, NY.

My students who have earned Lakan gradings under Professor are Tim Kashino, Richard Curren and Thomas Verga.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

John was the first full time Modern Arnis school teaching Modern Arnis only.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

The following are the Black Belts that started in Buffalo or came to Buffalo for their training. Several of these people may have trained with more than one teacher. This list represents who was their primary influence. Most of the head instructors became direct student of GM Presas.

*Don Zanghi produced the following students:*
Jerome Barber		
John Bryant
Gary Castanza

*John Bryant produced the following students:*
Tim Hartman
Dave Smith
Tammy Wilson

*Tammy Wilson produced:*
Peter Kautz

*Dan Carr Produced:*
Bob Chesbro   	

*Tim Hartman 6th Degree produced the following students:*
Kevin Black		
Jeff Rech  		
Jeffery Leader 	
Ron Murcin  		
Mike Alfano 		 
Mike Antecki 		
A. Paul Dawdy (Canada)
John CS Lehmann  	
Paul OGrady		
Amy Antecki		
David Battaglia	
Gene Cunningham	 
George Harris		
Primo Luciano		
Mark Mosler  		
Mike Milazzo		
David Pajak 		
Mike Rogers		
Tim Unger  		
Jordan Yee 		

*Dr. Jerome Barber produced the following students:*
Richard Curren	Black - Lakan
Tim Kashino	Black - Lakan
Tom Verga	Black - Lakan

*The following is the complete list of Black Belts from Buffalo with rank issued by GM Presas:*

1.Tim Hartman--------------6th Black - Lakan Anim

2.Dan Carr------------------Rank 4th or 5th???

3.Jerome Barber-----------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
4.Kevin Black---------------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo 
5.Bob Chesbro--------------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
6.Jeff Rech-------------------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
7.Don Zanghi---------------3rd Black  ???

8.Jeffery Leader------------2nd Black - Lakan Dalawa
9.Ron Murcin----------------2nd Black - Lakan Dalawa

10.Mike Alfano--------------1st Black - Lakan Isa 
11.Mike Antecki-------------1st Black - Lakan Isa 
12.John Bryant--------------1st Black - Lakan Isa 
13.A. Paul Dawdy-----------1st Black - Lakan Isa (Canada)
14.John CS Lehmann-------1st Black - Lakan Isa
15.Paul OGrady-------------1st Black - Lakan Isa

16.Amy Antecki--------------Black - Dayang
17.David Battaglia----------Black - Lakan (belt revoked by GM Presas)
18.Gary Castanza----------Black - Lakan 
19.Gene Cunningham------Black - Lakan
20.Richard Curren----------Black - Lakan 
21.George Harris-----------Black - Lakan 
22.Tim Kashino-------------Black - Lakan
23.Peter Kautz--------------Black - Lakan
24.Primo Luciano-----------Black - Lakan
25.Mark Mosler-------------Black - Lakan
26.Mike Milazzo------------Black - Lakan 
27.David Pajak-------------Black - Lakan
28.Mike Rogers-------------Black - Lakan 
29.Dave Smith--------------Black - Lakan (belt revoked by GM Presas)
30.Tim Unger---------------Black - Lakan 
31.Tom Verga--------------Black - Lakan
32.Tammy Wilson----------Black - Dayang 
33.Jordan Yee--------------Black - Lakan


* The people listed above have been issued OFFICIAL IMAF diplomas from GM Presas. These ranks have not been bestowed by WMAA, IMAF Shea, IMAF Delaney, MARPPIO, DAV, etc. Although, some of them have since been awarded such ranks in addition.


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> 
> *John was the first full time Modern Arnis school teaching Modern Arnis only. *



This was what I meant to say. Dr. Barber is correct that the story is more complicated than that. I knew many but not all of the details he mentions and most of the people. Thanks for clarifying the matter!


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> 
> *The people listed above have been issued OFFICIAL IMAF diplomas from GM Presas. These ranks have not been bestowed by WMAA, IMAF Shea, IMAF Delaney, MARPPIO, DAV, etc. *



Although, some of them have since been awarded such ranks in addition.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

> Datu Dieter KnÃ¼ttel
> 
> Blaco belts of the DAV in Germany directly under Remy Presas
> Hi Kelly
> 
> I am glad, I´ve got the list complete. Even though I have send a lot of names already, here are them all together once more, so you get the complete picture of the black blets of the DAV here in Germany, that were ranked directly under the Professor. All together there are 60 black belts with the following structure:
> 
> 1 x 6th Dan
> 2 x 5th Dan
> 2 x 4th Dan
> 10 x 3rd Dan
> 15 x 2nd Dan
> 25 x 1st Dan
> 
> Name--rank/year of the rank--start of the Arnis training
> 
> Datu Dieter Knüttel -- 6th Dan/1996 -- 1978
> 
> Hans Karrer -- 5th Dan/1999 -- 1979
> Jorgen Gydesen -- 5th Dan/1999 -- 1983
> 
> Peter Rutkowski -- 4th Dan/1999 -- 1984
> Carsten Hemmersbach -- 4th Dan/1999 -- 1988
> 
> Helmut Meisel -- 3rd Dan/1996 -- 1984
> Michael Jux -- 3rd Dan/1996 -- 1982
> Simone Schlötels -- 3rd Dan/1996 -- 1987
> Sunny Graff -- 3rd Dan/1999 -- 1985
> Kall Wall -- 3rd Dan/1999 -- 1984
> Albert Diemer -- 3rd Dan/1999 -- 1984
> Sven Barchfeld -- 3rd Dan/1999 -- 1985
> Bernd Vieth -- 3rd Dan/1999 -- 1988
> Roland Schültke -- 3rd Dan/1999 -- 1991
> Siegfried Derwisch -- 3rd Dan/1999-- 1985
> 
> Horst Brandt -- 2nd Dan/1994
> Dieter Armerding -- 2nd Dan/1996
> Michael Lappen -- 2nd Dan/1996
> Ingo Hutschenreuther -- 2nd Dan/1996
> Jörg Israel -- 2nd Dan/1996
> Finn Rathmann -- 2nd Dan/1996
> Stefan di Biccari -- 2nd Dan/1996
> Hans Peter Arto -- 2nd Dan/1997
> Roland Schültke -- 2nd Dan/1997
> Erich Muchow -- 2nd Dan/1999
> Ute Proll -- 2nd Dan/1999
> Tobias Rosenkranz -- 2nd Dan/1999
> John Peter Foelsch -- 2nd Dan/1999
> Carola Maucher -- 2nd Dan/1999
> Siegfried Wittwer -- 2nd Dan/1999
> 
> Arthur Pakulla -- 1st Dan/1996
> Peter Swirski -- 1st Dan/1996
> Tobias Rosenkranz -- 1st Dan/1996
> Peter Rubik -- 1st Dan/1996
> Irmgard Deschler -- 1st Dan/1996
> Ingo Hahmann -- 1st Dan/1996
> Kurt Reffler -- 1st Dan/1996
> Axel Grassmann -- 1st Dan/1996
> Gerd Leiendecker -- 1st Dan/1996
> Jamil Tarkhani -- 1st Dan/1997
> Stephan Chun -- 1st Dan/1997
> Sven Jander -- 1st Dan/1997
> Gianfranco Casillo -- 1st Dan/1997
> Jörg Kluthke -- 1st Dan/1997
> Myriam Krasch -- 1st Dan/1999
> Timo Dryk -- 1st Dan/1999
> Mark Broere -- 1st Dan/1999
> Ewangelos Poungias -- 1st Dan/1999
> Vincente Batala -- 1st Dan/1999
> Markus Kenkmann -- 1st Dan/1999
> Dick Schöellhorn -- 1st Dan/1999
> Michael Naber -- 1st Dan/1999
> Stefan Lucas -- 1st Dan/1999
> Rüediger Roessler -- 1st Dan/1999
> Florian Rosenkranz -- 1st Dan/1999
> 
> Thank you for asrking, we never had all the nemes together. Now we have. I am looking forward for the complete list or chart, if it ever will be complete.
> 
> Keep up the good work.
> 
> Greetings
> 
> 
> Dieter Knüttel
> Datu of Modern Arnis
> _________________
> http://www.abanico.de
> ABANICO Video Productions
> http://www.modern-arnis.de
> Modern Arnis Germany


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Dieter, 

when did these people test in front of Remy? Also , I thought you said that the DAV wasn't part of the IMAF. The reason I ask is that is alot of people being promoted by Remy without being memebers. 

Datu Tim Hartman
_________________
Lead by example, follow by choice.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

> Dieter Knüttel
> 
> Tests
> Hi Tim
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> when did these people test in front of Remy?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> the year of the tests is always put behind the names and degrees.
> If you want I can find out the precise dates for all the tests. They were always held before or after a seminar when the Professor visited us here in Germany.
> 
> When you would not have lost your tickes in 1999 in Frankfurt, you could have whitnessed the test of all 27 Modern Arnis blackbelts, that passed the test then, like Datu David Hoffmann and Jeff Delaney did. They were also on the board with Remy, me and other high ranking blackbelts.
> It took somethig like 5 hours all together. We made one examination for 1st Dan, after that for the 2nd and 3rd Dans and then for the 4th and 5th Dans. You were there, unfortunately you were busy getting back your tickes (what I could and can understand) but I would have liked to have had you on the board.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> thought you said that the DAV wasn't part of the IMAF. The reason I ask is that is alot of people being promoted by Remy without being members.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> For the IMAF, please note, that I did not write: "everybody made the degree in the IMAF", but I wrote, that "all of them made the test directly under the eyes of Remy". After the test we always discussed the results of every student with Remy and he personally approved every promotion. They all got his signature on their certificate. And I think this is what counts, because as far as i know, in Remys active times, there was no standardised examination requirements, that were valid for all gradings all over the US. We had this here and still have it and all students had to show the requirements for their degree.
> 
> Remy never ever said anything to us, that we should join the IMAF. We were and are a strong, well run association here in Germany and at that time, the IMAF seemed not very important to him.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dieter Knüttel
> Datu of Modern Arnis
> _________________
> http://www.abanico.de
> ABANICO Video Productions
> http://www.modern-arnis.de
> Modern Arnis Germany


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

So what you're saying is that it was a DAV testing that Remy signed off on. So the Black Belts that were issued are DAV ones that Remy signed as a witness as he has done for other martial art organizations.
_________________
Lead by example, follow by choice.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

> Remys german was not good enough to tell the germans what to do during the grading. He was sitting with the board which did the testing and he decided, who passed the Modern Arnis black belt. In our case Remy was right in the board and not beside it like in the test in the USA that I have whitnessed.
> 
> And remember the question raised:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> (ATTENTION!! THIS IS A MODIFICATION ON THE REQUEST FOR NAMES, PLEASE SUBMIT THE NAMES OF ANY PERSON THAT RECEIVED BLACKBELT STATUS FROM REMY A. PRESAS)
> 
> No major statements will be listed with each name, if you have people in mind and would like to include this information for status of position and recognition for inclusion it may help in deciding who will be listed but it is not a who has done what article only a listing of potential lineage practitioners to be included in the article or chart.
> 
> This is a big request, especially to keep non political,
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> There is no request for IMAF, only who got the blackbelt directly from Remy.
> And that is the case.
> 
> And to be frankly: If you are accepting them as Modern Arnis blackbelts or not is not important. Remy did and everybody who whitnessed the gradings (Randi Shea, Al Garza, Datu David Hoffman, Jeff Delaney, later Roland Dantres) and that is what counts.
> 
> But perhaps you can decide better than the Professor, who is a Modern Arnis black belt and who not, even without having seen the grading.
> If so, congratulations.
> 
> Remy acknowledged the high standard of Modern Arnis that we have and thats what is important to us.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dieter Knüttel
> DATU of Modern Arnis
> 
> 
> PS: You have to see, that I have been teaching Arnis for over 20 years now. I got my 5th Dan Modern Arnis in 1983 from Rodel Dagoog and Roland Dantes yand Willfredo Annang in Manila/Philippines, a year later from Ernesto Presas as well.
> Thats why there are so many students with black belt and we have a lot more without Remys signature. There were alone 23 during the last test with Roland Dantes on the board, going to 1st, 2nd and 3rd Dan.
> _________________
> http://www.abanico.de
> ABANICO Video Productions
> http://www.modern-arnis.de
> Modern Arnis Germany


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

So you understand this is not an attack on you. Since Remy moved to the states the only person who was authorized to promote to Black Belt was Remy himself. Remy told me this in 1997, when I asked him myself what belt I would have to be to promote people to Black Belt.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

> Hi Tim,
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> So you understand this is not an attach on you.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> thanks for clearing that point. I might have taken it a bit personal.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Since Remy moved to the states the only person who was authorized to promote to Black Belt was Remy himself. Remy told me this in 1997, when I asked him myself what belt I would have to be to promote people to Black Belt.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Well, in the US that might have been true, but I got in 1984 from Ernesto the license to promote students up to 4th Dan in Modern Arnis. When I got the Datu and the European Modern Arnis Represantative from Remy in 1996, he also granted this right to me, even up to 5th Dan, but I never used it. We only graded up to 3rd Dan without him, but aleways in a commission with me and at least 2 more 3rd , 4th or 5th Dans. So our grading commissions were always between 3 and 5 examiners.
> 
> I think Remy understood, that he is only once a year in Europe and that it is not possible for him to be at every grading, nor is it possible for all the students to fly to the US for their black belt test. This would have slowed down the spreading of Modern Aris here. You saw it, 60 gradings in these years only in front of him, and perhapps another 40 - 60 without him. This is a lot of people.
> I think this is why he granted that right to me, especially after he saw, that our gradings were correct and we would not give the degrees away.
> In the US Remy was always every few months in every area, so this was not neccessary. This was different in Europe with the DAV.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dieter Knüttel
> Datu of Modern Arnis
> _________________
> http://www.abanico.de
> ABANICO Video Productions
> http://www.modern-arnis.de
> Modern Arnis Germany


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

I wrote this:

Since Remy moved to the states the only person who was authorized to promote to Black Belt was Remy himself. Remy told me this in 1997, when I asked him myself what belt I would have to be to promote people to Black Belt. 



> Dieter wrote:
> Well, in the US that might have been true, but I got in 1984 from Ernesto the license to promote students up to 4th Dan in Modern Arnis.



Remember that Ernesto had to change the name because of Remy. So this would mean that you were licensed to teach KOMBATON. 



> Dieter wrote:
> When I got the Datu and the European Modern Arnis Represantative from Remy in 1996, he also granted this right to me, even up to 5th Dan, but I never used it.



Maybe in the DAV program, but I've NEVER heard Remy giving anyone permission to promote to that level. Remeber English is niether yours nor Remy's primary language. I would bet that there was some communication problems which lead to a couple misunderstandings.


----------



## Dieter

> Remember that Ernesto had to change the name because of Remy. So this would mean that you were licensed to teach KOMBATON.



You start splitting hair.

I got it in 1986 (I looked it up) and then the Modern Arnis of Ernesto was closer to the Modern Arnis of Remys pink book that what Remy taught in his last years. I stopped training with Ernesto beginning of the 90ies and Remy made Ernesto stop using the term Modern Arnis only around 2000. So this was years after me.

Remember: Remy promoted me to 6th Dan MODERN ARNIS, he made me his 4th DATU of MODERN ARNIS and he made me his MODERN ARNIS Representative for Europe!
And all the of course only, because I don´t do Modern Arnis. Come on, this is very far fetched.

We had a strong and functioning Modern Arnis organisation set up before we met him and I know that he was impressed by that. By the way we handeled the uniform. On his first seminar in Germany in January 1994 we attended with 20 blackbelts in HIS unifgorm, where Gaby and the girls all wore Kung-Fu uniforms with belts.  (He designed the red pants with the white t-shirt in the 70ies. You can see it in his pink book).
By the way we treated Modern Arnis as a stand alone art and not only as a supplement to JiuJutsu, Kempo or Karate.
By the way we and I taught the students and by the quality and standard we set with our gradings.

After the 1996 grading he said publicly:  "It was very impressive. Erverybody learned selfdefense. That is the key. I am very proud of the German Arnis Association, for what they are doing. You keep the good work. You are doing right. You upift the standard of Arnis throughout the world. Thank you."
I have it on tape.

And thats why he brought americans over to Germany to whitness our gradings. He asked Al Garza in 1997 to invite me to teach in Texas (what I did a year later) and in 1999 he requested Jeff Delaney to invite me to Texas too.



> Maybe in the DAV program, but I've NEVER heard Remy giving anyone permission to promote to that level. Remeber English is niether yours nor Remy's primary language. I would bet that there was some communication problems which lead to a couple misunderstandings.



If DAV program or not is not important. Important is that it is MODERN ARNIS.

You can bet what you want but I have been living in english speaking countries for more that 2 years and I KNOW, that there was no misunderstanding through the language between him and me  in that matter. Everything was very clear. 

Important for me is not, if you or anybody else belives it. Important for me is, that he gave it to me. This is all that counts.

Regards


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


----------



## arnisador

Mr. Knüttel, what are the ranks in the DAV? I ask because I don't see any "0th degree" Lakans there--do you not use that rank?

Is 10th the highest rank? Presumably this is not yet applicable.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

For the record the posts between Deiter and I are from the WMAC forum and I posted them here for the benefit of our members who are not a member of both forums.


----------



## Dieter

Arnisador asked:



> Mr. Knüttel, what are the ranks in the DAV? I ask because I don't see any "0th degree" Lakans there--do you not use that rank?Is 10th the highest rank? Presumably this is not yet applicable.




We have 5 student levels and 10 Lankan/Dayang, Dan or black belt levels.

I asked Remy about the 0th Degree (not even the name makes sense)
and he explained it to me this way:

In his pink book it says, after the student levels:

Black (rimmed with red) -------- Lakan ---- Dayang
1st Dan ----------------------- Isa ------ Isa
2nd Dan ---------------------- Dalawa --- Dalawa
3rd Dan ---------------------- Tatlo ----- Tatlo
etc.

He said, that the first line, Black (rimmed wirth red ) etc. was the HEADLINE for the blackbelts.
But when he came to the US, it was misinterpreted as a separate rank.  So it was done this way, estabished this way and he never really bothered to correct it. 

It was then declared as a "provisional black belt". 

When you look at ALL other martial arts, that have Dan degrees, I don´t know of any, that uses a "0 Dan" degree.

So when a brown belt passes the exam to black belt, he has the first black belt and that is Lakan Isa. 
Remy was well aware of that and never had any objections.

For your second question, as mentioned above, in Modern Arnis there are 10 Dan levels. Within the DAV I am the currently the highest rank with 6th Dan. But we acknowledge for example Roland Dantes or Rodel Dagoog with their 8th Dans of course.


Regards from Germany

Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


----------



## arnisador

I have heard of some karate and TKD organizations that use a provisional/temporary/probationary 0th dan belt for 6 months to a year. But I also had heard that the extra brown belt and extra black belt ranks were typos of just the form you had mentioned.

Have it been decided how _you_ will recieve your next promotion when the time comes? From the DAV as an organization, or from the 8th degree in the Philippines, or from respected martial artists in other styles?


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> 
> *John was the first full time Modern Arnis school teaching Modern Arnis only. *



We are in agreement on this point.  As I noted in my post, Sifu Don Zanghi, taught Tracy Kenpo and Modern Arnis as "matching partners" from white belt through black belt.  He was also the first IMAF Area Representative and he was John Bryant's, instructor in both arts until, John, cut a back-door deal with professor, to get his lakan rating, plus open the Filipino Martial Arts Academy.  I did mention that John exclusively taught Modern Arnis.  As such he was the first 'full time' Modern Arnis School in the area, but *most definately not* the first Modern Arnis program.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> 
> *The following are the Black Belts that started in Buffalo or came to Buffalo for their training. Several of these people may have trained with more than one teacher. This list represents who was their primary influence. Most of the head instructors became direct student of GM Presas.
> 
> Don Zanghi produced the following students:
> Jerome Barber
> John Bryant
> Gary Castanza
> 
> John Bryant produced the following students:
> Tim Hartman
> Dave Smith
> Tammy Wilson
> 
> Tammy Wilson produced:
> Peter Kautz
> 
> Dan Carr Produced:
> Bob Chesbro
> 
> Tim Hartman 6th Degree produced the following students:
> Kevin Black
> Jeff Rech
> Jeffery Leader
> Ron Murcin
> Mike Alfano
> Mike Antecki
> A. Paul Dawdy (Canada)
> John CS Lehmann
> Paul OGrady
> Amy Antecki
> David Battaglia
> Gene Cunningham
> George Harris
> Primo Luciano
> Mark Mosler
> Mike Milazzo
> David Pajak
> Mike Rogers
> Tim Unger
> Jordan Yee
> 
> Dr. Jerome Barber produced the following students:
> Richard Curren	Black - Lakan
> Tim Kashino	Black - Lakan
> Tom Verga	Black - Lakan
> 
> The following is the complete list of Black Belts from Buffalo with rank issued by GM Presas:
> 
> 1.Tim Hartman--------------6th Black - Lakan Anim
> 
> 2.Dan Carr------------------Rank 4th or 5th???
> 
> 3.Jerome Barber-----------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
> 4.Kevin Black---------------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
> 5.Bob Chesbro--------------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
> 6.Jeff Rech-------------------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
> 7.Don Zanghi---------------3rd Black  ???
> 
> 8.Jeffery Leader------------2nd Black - Lakan Dalawa
> 9.Ron Murcin----------------2nd Black - Lakan Dalawa
> 
> 10.Mike Alfano--------------1st Black - Lakan Isa
> 11.Mike Antecki-------------1st Black - Lakan Isa
> 12.John Bryant--------------1st Black - Lakan Isa
> 13.A. Paul Dawdy-----------1st Black - Lakan Isa (Canada)
> 14.John CS Lehmann-------1st Black - Lakan Isa
> 15.Paul OGrady-------------1st Black - Lakan Isa
> 
> 16.Amy Antecki--------------Black - Dayang
> 17.David Battaglia----------Black - Lakan (belt revoked by GM Presas)
> 18.Gary Castanza----------Black - Lakan
> 19.Gene Cunningham------Black - Lakan
> 20.Richard Curren----------Black - Lakan
> 21.George Harris-----------Black - Lakan
> 22.Tim Kashino-------------Black - Lakan
> 23.Peter Kautz--------------Black - Lakan
> 24.Primo Luciano-----------Black - Lakan
> 25.Mark Mosler-------------Black - Lakan
> 26.Mike Milazzo------------Black - Lakan
> 27.David Pajak-------------Black - Lakan
> 28.Mike Rogers-------------Black - Lakan
> 29.Dave Smith--------------Black - Lakan (belt revoked by GM Presas)
> 30.Tim Unger---------------Black - Lakan
> 31.Tom Verga--------------Black - Lakan
> 32.Tammy Wilson----------Black - Dayang
> 33.Jordan Yee--------------Black - Lakan
> 
> 
> * The people listed above have been issued OFFICIAL IMAF diplomas from GM Presas. These ranks have not been bestowed by WMAA, IMAF Shea, IMAF Delaney, MARPPIO, DAV, etc. Although, some of them have since been awarded such ranks in addition. *



Tim, 

I want to make a couple of corrections to your list.

John Bryant, is Professor's student, not Don Zanghi's.  John only completed is first level brown belt at Fighting Back Institute.  He cut a deal with professor to receive his lakan rating and then opened the FMAA with Professor's blessing.  That opened a very large wound that never quite healed between the three men.  It also adversely affected David Smith and Tammy Wilson, because there were aspects of the Modern Arnis program that Sifu Don had learned and taught after the split, but we, the nexxt group of students were never allowed to share any of that information with anyone from the FMAA.  If you think back to your student days there, we almost never attended any of Proofessor's seminars at the FMAA, nor did you or your classmates attend the seminars at FBI.   Isn't interesting when you think about it, Professor did two seminars in the Buffalo area on the same weekend but for the most part the students and instrucors of the FMAA and FBI, only went to one!  John Bryant is Professor's student!

Richard Curren and Tom Verga are actually Lakan Isa.  They each tested after being awared their Lakan's in Michigan that they attended with you as the lead instructor frooom the Buffalo.  Richrad received his lakan isa in North Carolina and Tom's was in Philidelphia.  Please update your records.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *This was what I meant to say. Dr. Barber is correct that the story is more complicated than that. I knew many but not all of the details he mentions and most of the people. Thanks for clarifying the matter! *



Thanks Arnisador, 

This stuff brings back both good and bad memories.  Perhaps now some readers will have a better appriciation of just how 
well I and some others from the late 70's know about the foibles and strengths of the late Professor.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Dieter

> I have heard of some karate and TKD organizations that use a provisional/temporary/probationary 0th dan belt for 6 months to a year. But I also had heard that the extra brown belt and extra black belt ranks were typos of just the form you had mentioned.



OK, I don´t know about the US. Here in Germany it is not used at all.



> Have it been decided how you will recieve your next promotion when the time comes? From the DAV as an organization, or from the 8th degree in the Philippines, or from respectedmartial artists in other styles?




Very good question. This problem (not my personal situation but the general problem) is exactly the question and the reason, why I initiated the thread: "Grandmaster of Modern Arnis", that you can find here. 

I am in the same situation as Tim Harman, Randi Shea, Dan Anderson etc., so people, that are heading a Modern Arnis group.
For us in Germany it is not such an unusual situation, to make gradings and promotions, because we have been doing that for 20 years now (not that high though). We always had our grading requirements. 

But in the US it is different I think, because all the degrees came from Remy before.

As far as it conserns me, it is not in my hands and nothing is decided. I will let you know if/when it happens.

I think, as the situation is now, (and not only for me but for all the others in that situation) the first two solutions that you propose are honorable ones, the third one is not really acceptable or relevant. I could not imagine accepting a Modern Arnis degree from somebody with no connections in the Modern Arnis world.

But this topic will come up eventually, when student levels get higher (4th and 5th Dans), that the organisations have to to think about, what and how to handle the degree of the person at the top.

I think it has to be discussed and thought about.

I would appreciate to hear other other opinions about this topic, or even make another thread out of this.

Best reards from Germany


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Dieter _
> 
> *OK, I don´t know about the US. Here in Germany it is not used at all.
> 
> Very good question. This problem (not my personal situation but the general problem) is exactly the question and the reason, why I initiated the thread: "Grandmaster of Modern Arnis", that you can find here.
> 
> I am in the same situation as Tim Harman, Randi Shea, Dan Anderson etc., so people, that are heading a Modern Arnis group.
> For us in Germany it is not such an unusual situation, to make gradings and promotions, because we have been doing that for 20 years now (not that high though). We always had our grading requirements.
> 
> But in the US it is different I think, because all the degrees came from Remy before.
> 
> As far as it conserns me, it is not in my hands and nothing is decided. I will let you know if/when it happens.
> 
> I think, as the situation is now, (and not only for me but for all the others in that situation) the first two solutions that you propose are honorable ones, the third one is not really acceptable or relevant. I could not imagine accepting a Modern Arnis degree from somebody with no connections in the Modern Arnis world.
> 
> But this topic will come up eventually, when student levels get higher (4th and 5th Dans), that the organisations have to to think about, what and how to handle the degree of the person at the top.
> 
> I think it has to be discussed and thought about.
> 
> I would appreciate to hear other other opinions about this topic, or even make another thread out of this.
> 
> Best reards from Germany
> 
> 
> Dieter Knüttel
> Datu of Modern Arnis *



Hello Dieter,

It seems to me that this is an issue that a number of people have stead-fastly avoided trying to answer, because that same question has been asked on this forum several times in the past by several different people.

I have suggested that we could open a thread to discuss this matter or it could be a topic for discussion at the upcoming 2003 Symposium.  If people would like that to happen at the Symposium, they will have to write me or post the request on 
this forum.

It is a very real concern - just how does one go above the 6th degree level that seems to be the upper limit of ranks in the USA, Canada and Europe?  Seems to me that this needs to be discussed.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## oatmeal

Been a while since posts on this subject, but I remember two guys from Massachusetts that ran a school called Kicks and Sticks. They both had black belts awarded by Remy Presas. I believe they were direct students of his. The school is closed now. Not sure if they are still active.

Ernie Laberge - 4th or 5th degree
Dave Belanger - 1st or 2nd degree


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