# learning exp



## andy (Jul 30, 2005)

not sure if i should post this here so I apologise in advance if I'm in the wrong area:
About ten years back after reaching an intermediate level in ma. I was young arrogant and foolish (had a lot of mental growing to wade thru)
Anyhow, I was at a bar one night and allready well into my beers when an aquaintence I knew showed up in the next room. I won't bore you with the details of our angst toward each other, suffice to say it was over a woman that the two of us should have both ignored anyway.
 In short I had my back to him, I wanted to talk with him peacefully so I set my beer down and turned around into his fist.
ouch; pride was hurt more then anything, my point to all this --I think the few months of introspection this gave me helped me grow more in martial arts then any other time.
It caused me to always consider situational awareness for one thing, along with the value of sobriety. It also granted me a larger sense of humility
It caused me also to consider real world settings to a much higher degree.
 I guess I'm wondering if anyone else had a similar learning exp.


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## Brother John (Jul 30, 2005)

andy said:
			
		

> It caused me to always consider situational awareness for one thing, along with the value of sobriety. It also granted me a larger sense of humility
> It caused me also to consider real world settings to a much higher degree.
> I guess I'm wondering if anyone else had a similar learning exp.


Yes, I have.
These lessons are invaluable, never stop collecting them.

Your Brother
John


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## swiftpete (Jul 30, 2005)

I learned that defending yourself when very drunk can be difficult, I went to a house party ages ago, drank a ridiculous amount of homemade cocktails and on the way out some lad stopped me with his arm and then headbutted me. I hadn't done anything to him but his friend then joined in punching me in the face. Thankfully didn't go down. Unfortunately the friend was shouting how *I'd* headbutted the person who butted me, while they were laying into me and no one really knew me at this party as i was a friend of a friend of someone there. So who did they believe?? So anyway it ended up with a hell of a lot of people against me, miraculously I didn't lose any teeth or break any bones. But i did end up with a very bruised face and some bruises round the back of my neck/head where someone was massaging me with his fist with sovereign ring on, while his helpful friend tried to choke me. 

When staggering drunk its quite difficult to defend yourself, i think punches and kicks seem to come in a lot faster and catch you without you really seeing them!
Anyway this was years ago, i think i maybe would do better now in the same situation, although since i escaped relatively unscathed i don't suppose it went all that badly.


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## swiftpete (Jul 30, 2005)

Another learning experience i had was when i was a teenager, before I'd started training in martial arts and i had some local black youths start a fight with me for no reason. I came out of a shop and they were outside, the ridiculous reason they came up with was that i was buying milk, which proved i was being racist.

Anyhow, I had an opportunity to strike first but thought i'd try and talk my way out instead by insisting i didn't want to fight etc etc. All it earned me was a broken jaw, 2 teeth knocked out and after a while some stamps to the head. Getting your head kicked in by 5 people isn't really a cool look, doesn't feel great either.
So i learned that sometimes you can't talk your way out of things, no matter what some people say, i know there are a lot of people on here that say that all the time, sometimes though it just doesn't happen!
To be honest even if i'd struck first i almost certainly would've had my head kicked in anyway but at least i could have evened it out a tiny bit!
So 3 things learned
1. Don't get in a fight with 5 people if possible.
2. If you're going to have to fight a large group cause as much damage as possible before hitting the deck. Then lie there and groan sometimes as your head/nether regions get stamped on.
3. Don't buy milk.


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## rutherford (Jul 30, 2005)

swiftpete said:
			
		

> When staggering drunk its quite difficult to defend yourself, i think punches and kicks seem to come in a lot faster and catch you without you really seeing them!



Yes, they sure do.

And, it takes a lot longer to switch gears.  If you've got the idea that you're just gonna talk, the fight will probably be over by the time you're ready to fight.


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## FearlessFreep (Jul 30, 2005)

This is one reason that when I'm playing gigs out at someplace that serves alchohol, I dont drink.  If I want a drink, I have it at home


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## andy (Jul 30, 2005)

thank you the value of the experiance is beyond price. but who is darrell craig?
The lessons learned are what I'm hoping others may share as well.
 I think I am a more realistic martial practitioner for it. the situational awareness. the mechanics of physical movement. the maturity of responsible actions. The self examination. The harsh reality of what a person may or may not do at any given moment- maybe I'm ranting. But the lessons I came away with I believe made me a far better person and practitioner of ma.


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## swiftpete (Jul 30, 2005)

Sorry if i'm being blind by not seeing it in the thread but i am confused who darrell craig is as well, why did you mention him?


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## andy (Jul 30, 2005)

sorry friend,
A kind person just gave me a positive post and mentioned that name.
but I don't wish to get off my original query- who has learned from a setback-
or what was first, concieved as one?
and how and why are you better for it?


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## jfarnsworth (Jul 30, 2005)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> ....  If I want a drink, I have it at home


I hear 'ya. Too much trouble to get in whilst drinking out and about.  :asian:


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 30, 2005)

I went to a party when I was 19. We were standing around drinking (I had just started and was still working on my first beer), when an acquaintance of mine who had been drinking all day, decided he was going to tackle me. I hadn't done anything to offend him or upset him, he just felt like tackling someone and I was standing there. He hit be broadside and tackled me in to the side of a truck. My head hit the bed, and then the exhaust pipe, slicing open my scalp, and resulting in five stitches.

After we hit the truck, I scrambled to my feet. He was so drunk he was still laying on the ground where he tackled me. He was so drunk he didn't remember tackling me the next day. He also didn't remember me kicking him in the side of the head and ribs afterwards either. Just as well, no hard feelings.

Bottom line, keep an eye on people...especially drunks.


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## searcher (Jul 30, 2005)

I have had eye-opening experiences like you describe and they are very valuable.   You should be very glad that you were able to walk away, I have seen to many that were not.    I have not had a drink in 5 years last June 17.   This has probably helped me more than anything, since I tend to be over-eager at testing my martial skills.    To many times I have had bad experience with mixing alcohol and testerone.


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## arnisador (Jul 31, 2005)

Darrell Craig is an iaidoka, no?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0804870233/


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## bignick (Jul 31, 2005)

I mentioned it in a private message.  Darrell Craig also teaches Kaisho Goshin Budo Jujutsu in Texas.  Some similarities so I asked if he studied under Sensei Craig.


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## lonecoyote (Jul 31, 2005)

I'm with searcher. I haven't had a drink in over six years. Quitting was the best self defense move I ever made. I look back and wonder about how I came through so many bad situations relatively intact.


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## Tony (Jul 31, 2005)

Well even before I started training in Martial ARts I was attacked when I was 17 walking out at night down town. What it taught me was to be more aware of my surroundings and not to walk down town at night. I recall one of them saying " take him in the alleyway", thats when i knew I could have been on the news so I managed to get up al my strenght and struggled free. Even though they had hit me a lot, even kicked me in the groin I felt nothing and there were no mareks at all probably because of the large amount of adrenaline I had. I seldom get drunk and I probably drink maybe 3 times a year but never to excess. I like to keep my wits about me.


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## arnisador (Jul 31, 2005)

lonecoyote said:
			
		

> I haven't had a drink in over six years. Quitting was the best self defense move I ever made.


 An excellent point. People focus so much on fighting that they can lose track of what simple steps one can take for self-defense.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 31, 2005)

Darrel Craig does differnit forms of ju-jitsu and yes Iaido.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 31, 2005)

ohh almost forgot Darrel Craig also wrote at least 2 books. Iai, art of drawing the sword. and japans altamit martial art, jujitsu before 1882. i have the second and think he's a pretty intresting person.

sweet Bright bless your blade

John

ohh by the way, if you haven't yet read the thing about canada out lawing the martial arts


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## arnisador (Jul 31, 2005)

He is a fairly prolific writer, I believe.

I don't know anything about his jujutsu style though.


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## KenpoEMT (Jul 31, 2005)

Came pretty close to having my butt handed to me outside a bar. Dude was talking smack and I had enough to drink that I started talking smack in return. Didn't really notice his girlfriend run inside yelling about a fight outside. Anyway, it seemed like everyone poured out of the bar to come help the other guy. Two "friends" that were with me ran away and left me to face the drunken horde alone. If they hadn't have been intoxicated, I probably would have been in serious trouble. Most of them were slow and clumsy. I got made fun of for a few weeks for having gotten a black eye, but I think that I did fairly well.
Oh well, learned my lesson. That was the last time that I went to a bar, and I'd be happy to never go to one again (mostly because they charge to much  ).


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 1, 2005)

Theban_Legion said:
			
		

> Came pretty close to having my butt handed to me outside a bar. Dude was talking smack and I had enough to drink that I started talking smack in return. Didn't really notice his girlfriend run inside yelling about a fight outside. Anyway, it seemed like everyone poured out of the bar to come help the other guy. Two "friends" that were with me ran away and left me to face the drunken horde alone. If they hadn't have been intoxicated, I probably would have been in serious trouble. Most of them were slow and clumsy. I got made fun of for a few weeks for having gotten a black eye, but I think that I did fairly well.
> Oh well, learned my lesson. That was the last time that I went to a bar, and I'd be happy to never go to one again (mostly because they charge to much  ).


I learned a long time ago, if i'm going to get in to a fight (and I don't make it a habit of it) i'm NOT going to stand there and run my mouth.  Some people must derive courage from standing around exchanging insults...it just makes me more nervous.

If i've made up my mind to hit a guy, then i'm just going to hit him, quickly and repeatedly, until he isn't a threat to me, and run away before his friends show up.  

Again, if you're going to do something, do it right.  I try to avoid fights, but I hate worse to lose one (meaning be on the receiving end of the beating).


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 1, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> I learned a long time ago, if i'm going to get in to a fight (and I don't make it a habit of it) i'm NOT going to stand there and run my mouth. Some people must derive courage from standing around exchanging insults...it just makes me more nervous.
> 
> If i've made up my mind to hit a guy, then i'm just going to hit him, quickly and repeatedly,


Yeah, I understand. This event occured almost 10 years ago. Sometimes some people learn stuff the hard way.


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 1, 2005)

Theban_Legion said:
			
		

> Yeah, I understand. This event occured almost 10 years ago. Sometimes some people learn stuff the hard way.


 Oh, I learned the hardway too...more than once (i'm a slow learner).


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## swiftpete (Aug 1, 2005)

I notice there are people here saying about stopping going out drinking. Well I'd never do that, I love going out with friends and getting drunk. Do it all the time and haven't had any trouble for ages now. Of course the next time you go out could be the time you get killed, but i wouldn't like to stop such a major source of pleasure as going and out and having beers with chums and getting drunk, just because i might get in trouble.
I think that nowadays I'm just more aware of my surroundings when I'm out. If a fight was inevitable I'd try hit as hard as poss and get out of there.


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## arnisador (Aug 3, 2005)

It's a balance. You could be careful every minute, and live like Howard Hughes--afraid of every germ-laden surface.

But, drinking heavily is a big risk in many ways. I see the wisdom of watching that one, and living with the risk that flying could result in a crash.


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## andy (Aug 4, 2005)

Thank you all for such good insights
But if we could all just let go of the booze..

what I am wondering, is what have we all learned from our setbacks, our failures?
Again- I learned situational awareness. Along with a greater interest in the physics of motion.


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## Jonathan Randall (Aug 4, 2005)

andy said:
			
		

> Thank you all for such good insights
> But if we could all just let go of the booze..
> 
> what I am wondering, is what have we all learned from our setbacks, our failures?


... to let go of the booze.


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## Drac (Aug 5, 2005)

As a former bouncer the stories I could tell...Over the years I have learned one major lesson..Drinking and the martial arts don't mix...


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## FearlessFreep (Aug 5, 2005)

A couple of reasons I don't drink when out at clubs.

 1) Just my background but to me, going to clubs is all about music.  I'm a musician and I go to listen to music and to hang with musicians so even when I'm not playing, I like to be able to keep focused

 2) The aforementioned "martial arts and drinking don't mix"

 3) Alchohol throws off my timing and I play in the rythm section...bad combination....

 4) Having to pack those speakers and amps after the gig...

 5) The drive home...


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## Martial Tucker (Aug 5, 2005)

I'm not about to give up alcohol, but I do have a personal "3 drink MAX" rule when I am drinking outside of my home in a social situation. I'm sure that alone has saved me much embarassment, and probably some injury over the years....also maybe avoided DUI or two...

 As for awareness, that's the real key. I learned alot about situational awareness "back in the day" when I was a bouncer. I pretty much never go into a bar alone, and if I do, I try to position myself near an exit, and in such a way that there are very few, if any, people behind me or not in my field of vision. If that means I have to go stand in a corner and lean on a jukebox, so be it. 
 As for parties, I am reluctant to go if I don't actually know the host/hostess. Again, if I do go to a party where there are many people I don't know, I try to stand in a position where I can see everyone else in the room. Don't stand with your feet together, but rather in a comfortable "walking stance". Sounds paranoid, but these are really minor things that are easy to habitualize, and if you're going to be drinking in a room full of strangers who are also drinking, it's really an easy way to help keep the odds in your favor.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 5, 2005)

I generally don't drink unless it's a VERY SPECIAL occassion and then only in a private, secure setting.  However myself and some of the guys I train with have adopted a program similar to a "designated driver."  When we go hang out at parties and such we have 2 guys there that don't drink (usually myself and whoever else volunteers not to drink that night) who are the "designated fighters" for lack of a better term.  Basically these two guys are to be the eyes and ears of the group and responsible for avoiding trouble, resolving any disputes peacefully when ever possible/necessary, and... well you know the rest.  These guys are also the drivers in case anybody has "one too many".  Kind of a bodyguard program among friends.


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## swiftpete (Aug 20, 2005)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:
			
		

> I generally don't drink unless it's a VERY SPECIAL occassion and then only in a private, secure setting. However myself and some of the guys I train with have adopted a program similar to a "designated driver." When we go hang out at parties and such we have 2 guys there that don't drink (usually myself and whoever else volunteers not to drink that night) who are the "*designated fighters*" for lack of a better term. Basically these two guys are to be the eyes and ears of the group and responsible for avoiding trouble, resolving any disputes peacefully when ever possible/necessary, and... well you know the rest. These guys are also the drivers in case anybody has "one too many". Kind of a bodyguard program among friends.


Designating the fighters before the night out just made me chuckle!
I get what you're saying but the way it's written just made me smile!


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