# 10th Planet Jiujitsu



## Hanzou

Anyone have any thoughts on this style of Jiujitsu? I listen to Joe Rogan's podcasts quite a bit, and Eddie Bravo is on there quite a bit promoting the system. 

Their names are pretty strange, and they seem pretty reliant on the Rubber Guard, which I think is highly limited.

However, I do like their no-gi stuff, and their push to make it more applicable for MMA.


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## elder999

Hanzou said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on this style of Jiujitsu? I listen to Joe Rogan's podcasts quite a bit, and Eddie Bravo is on there quite a bit promoting the system.
> 
> Their names are pretty strange, and they seem pretty reliant on the Rubber Guard, which I think is highly limited.
> 
> However, I do like their no-gi stuff, and their push to make it more applicable for MMA.


Great bunch of people, even with the pot smoking. Great ground game, lots of tournament success....it requires a bit too much flexibility for most people my age (though not me!)

In the end, it's still BJJ, albeit with some good adjustments for no-gi....that is to say, it's still *B*asically *J*us*t* *Judo.

*

Hardly ever see anyone rolling against a guy with a fake knife in BJJ, but I have in a coupla 10th Planet studios....


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## Buka

I played around with some guys from 10th Planet. It was fun, I liked it. I liked the rubber guard, used it some against people my size and it served me well, but didn't train it long enough and had trouble against people who were a lot stronger.

I like Rogan's podcasts, too. He's been training 10th Planet for a long time now. There's a great interview with Rickson Gracie and Eddie Bravo if you haven't seen it. Couple hours long, but I thought it was great.


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## Hanzou

elder999 said:


> Great bunch of people, even with the pot smoking. Great ground game, lots of tournament success....it requires a bit too much flexibility for most people my age (though not me!)
> 
> In the end, it's still BJJ, albeit with some good adjustments for no-gi....that is to say, it's still *B*asically *J*us*t* *Judo.
> 
> *
> 
> Hardly ever see anyone rolling against a guy with a fake knife in BJJ, but I have in a coupla 10th Planet studios....



Yeah, basically just Judo with the added bonus of leg locks, leg attacks, no-gi grappling, etc...


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## Hanzou

Buka said:


> I played around with some guys from 10th Planet. It was fun, I liked it. I liked the rubber guard, used it some against people my size and it served me well, but didn't train it long enough and had trouble against people who were a lot stronger.
> 
> I like Rogan's podcasts, too. He's been training 10th Planet for a long time now. There's a great interview with Rickson Gracie and Eddie Bravo if you haven't seen it. Couple hours long, but I thought it was great.



Yeah, that was a good interview. Rickson is definitely one of my heroes of the sport.

As for the Rguard, I prefer the Shawn Williams Guard instead. However, word through the grapevine is that Eddie barred it from his system for whatever reason (probably because its a superior guard). I think the SWGuard is a lot better, and safer. You don't run the risk of ripping your knee apart, and frankly I think it works better against larger opponents.


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## elder999

Hanzou said:


> Yeah, basically just Judo with the added bonus of leg locks, leg attacks, no-gi grappling, etc...


 Hmmm, funny-I learned all those things in judo.....'cept the leg locks, which I learned in......judo _class_,


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## Buka

I had never heard of the Shawn Williams guard, so I googled it. Fascinating. Can't wait to play with that.

Then I googled Eddie Bravo and Shawn Williams, seems like there's a bunch of stuff for me to look at. There goes my free time. Swell. Thanks....I think. 

You mentioned ripping your knee apart. I had that thought, too. It didn't actually put too much pressure on my knee, at least not as much as I thought it would, but I keep feeling it would happen. A lot of the guys I work out with said it bothered theirs, except for the flexible guys. I hate flexible guys.


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## elder999

elder999 said:


> Hmmm, funny-I learned all those things in judo.....'cept the leg locks, which I learned in......judo _class_,


* All legal in competition, 80 years ago*:


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## Hanzou

elder999 said:


> * All legal in competition, 80 years ago*:
> 
> View attachment 19348 View attachment 19349 View attachment 19350 View attachment 19351



LoL! You act as if 80 years ago was 8 years ago. That's 4 generations of Judo where leg locks were illegal. Further they're also banned from randori practice, and relegated to kata which most Judoka don't even learn until they're black belts, if they learn it at all.

If a student is looking to take one or the other, I simply don't see how you could recommend Judo over Bjj given Judo's purposeful limitations. Leg locks are a pretty important part of grappling, and in modern Judo, it's almost completely ignored.


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## Hanzou

Buka said:


> I had never heard of the Shawn Williams guard, so I googled it. Fascinating. Can't wait to play with that.
> 
> Then I googled Eddie Bravo and Shawn Williams, seems like there's a bunch of stuff for me to look at. There goes my free time. Swell. Thanks....I think.
> 
> You mentioned ripping your knee apart. I had that thought, too. It didn't actually put too much pressure on my knee, at least not as much as I thought it would, but I keep feeling it would happen. A lot of the guys I work out with said it bothered theirs, except for the flexible guys. I hate flexible guys.



Yeah, the Rubber guard never worked out for me, but the SW guard did. Amazing Omoplata and Armlock set up. It also works surprisingly well against strikers in your Guard, since it takes both their arms out of play. My only caveat is that I think the Rubber Guard is a bit easier to initiate, whereas the SW guard gives you a bit more control.

And yeah, when I tried the Rguard I felt a very strong pull in my knee area, and I never tried it again. Scared the crap out of me. 

Let me know how it works out for you Buka. Glad I was able to introduce something new to your game.


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## Brian R. VanCise

I can rubber guard well but like SW Guard better.  I have a lot of friends in 10th Planet and they are all good people, training hard.  Eddie has come up with some very creative submissions which is a nice addition to jiujitsu.


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## elder999

Hanzou said:


> LoL! You act as if 80 years ago was 8 years ago. That's 4 generations of Judo where leg locks were illegal. Further they're also banned from randori practice, and relegated to kata which most Judoka don't even learn until they're black belts, if they learn it at all.
> 
> If a student is looking to take one or the other, I simply don't see how you could recommend Judo over Bjj given Judo's purposeful limitations. Leg locks are a pretty important part of grappling, and in modern Judo, it's almost completely ignored.


Depends. I keep telling you that there are dojos all over the U.S.-never mind Japan-where judo is taught just as it was when they first opened, or their first sensei started learning/teaching,  more than 80 years ago.....
Seattle Dojo 

http://www.nydojo.org/nyhist_1.htm

Sosuishi-Ryu JuJutsu Kai


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## Brian R. VanCise

Here is a video of one of my guy's fight from 2010 where he utilized the SW Guard for a bit to stabilize the guard and then switched to a Kimura. (ie. reverse bent arm lock)   There are some really tricky submissions from the SW Guard that are very hard to counter if you do not understand it well.


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## Hanzou

elder999 said:


> Depends. I keep telling you that there are dojos all over the U.S.-never mind Japan-where judo is taught just as it was when they first opened, or their first sensei started learning/teaching,  more than 80 years ago.....
> Seattle Dojo
> 
> http://www.nydojo.org/nyhist_1.htm
> 
> Sosuishi-Ryu JuJutsu Kai



A couple of Judo schools sprinkled around the world is a far cry from leg lock instruction being found in every Bjj school. Wouldn't you agree?

And how exactly is "Sosuishi-Ryu JuJutsu Kai' considered Judo?


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## Hanzou

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Here is a video of one of my guy's fight from 2010 where he utilized the SW Guard for a bit to stabilize the guard and then switched to a Kimura. (ie. reverse bent arm lock)   There are some really tricky submissions from the SW Guard that are very hard to counter if you do not understand it well.



Yeah, nice vid there. Pretty smooth transition too.

Thought it was funny how the crowd started boo'ing after a minute or so of ground fighting. The ignorant masses truly do not appreciate great grappling.


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## elder999

Hanzou said:


> And how exactly is "Sosuishi-Ryu JuJutsu Kai' considered Judo?


 
Outside the door of the Sosuishishitsu ryu hombu in Fukuoka, there is a sign that basically says::
_All sosuishitsu ryu students will practice aikido and judo"
(_Pretty sure that *sign's* been there for close to 80 years.....

.. )


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## Hanzou

elder999 said:


> Outside the door of the Sosuishishitsu ryu hombu in Fukuoka, there is a sign that basically says::
> _All sosuishitsu ryu students will practice aikido and judo"
> (_Pretty sure that *sign's* been there for close to 80 years.....
> 
> .. )



Yeah, but Sosuishi-Ryu JuJutsu is a Koryu, not a form of Judo.


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## elder999

Hanzou said:


> Yeah, but Sosuishi-Ryu JuJutsu is a Koryu, not a form of Judo.


What is it  you think you're telling me that I don't know?

More to the point,given that it's a koryu that requires the practice of judo, just what kinda judo do you think they practice? *Post* WWII "Olympic" judo, or _pre_ WWII *fucke-'em up, leg-locks, wrist locks, dorje-and all* judo?


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## Hanzou

elder999 said:


> What is it  you think you're telling me that I don't know?
> 
> More to the point,given that it's a koryu that requires the practice of judo, just what kinda judo do you think they practice? *Post* WWII "Olympic" judo, or _pre_ WWII *fucke-'em up, leg-locks, wrist locks, dorje-and all* judo?



Considering that it's a classical jujutsu school, it's a pretty good chance that it's neither. More than likely some bastardized version that even lacks randori. I'd be very wary of learning Judo from a martial art that was supposedly founded in the 1600s.

That said, Bjj is pre-war Judo, whereas the vast majority of Judo taught today is post-war Judo.

Oh, and feel free to add wrist locks to the list of things you won't learn in Judo, but will learn in Bjj.


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## elder999

Hanzou said:


> Considering that it's a classical jujutsu school, it's a pretty good chance that it's neither. More than likely some bastardized version that even lacks randori. I'd be very wary of learning Judo from a martial art that was supposedly founded in the 1600s.
> 
> That said, Bjj is pre-war Judo, whereas the vast majority of Judo taught today is post-war Judo.
> 
> Oh, and feel free to add wrist locks to the list of things you won't learn in Judo, but will learn in Bjj.


 
Actually, the wrist-locks in BJJ mostly came from judo.

As for the judo practiced at the Sosuishitsu ryu hombu, when I was there in 1979, it was pretty much pre-war judo, like I'd been learning stateside, albeit a little less rough-except for raneori.

The aikido was Tomiki aikido, so it was (to me) kinda....._meh_

-and the founding of sosuishi ryu  *was* in the 1600s.


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## Tony Dismukes

I've read Eddie Bravo's books, watched his videos, and played around a little bit with some of the ideas from those, but I've never had the chance to work with anyone who is directly trained in the 10th Planet system. I was planning on attending an Eddie Bravo seminar a few months ago, but I came down with a bad bug that weekend.

Based on what I've seen, it seems like a worthwhile exploration of the BJJ problem space. I like the half-guard system. The top game seems interesting. I have some issues with the Rubber Guard. It seems attribute-dependent. It tangles the bottom person up with the top person so that a rapid emergency exit is impractical. It keeps the bottom person square instead of searching for a superior angle. As others have mentioned, I prefer the Williams guard.

All those opinions are tentative and subject to revision whenever I finally get the chance to work firsthand with someone who is expert in the system. I'm still hoping to meet Bravo at some point. He seems so enthusiastic about BJJ that I am confident I would enjoy talking with him.


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## Hanzou

Tony Dismukes said:


> I've read Eddie Bravo's books, watched his videos, and played around a little bit with some of the ideas from those, but I've never had the chance to work with anyone who is directly trained in the 10th Planet system. I was planning on attending an Eddie Bravo seminar a few months ago, but I came down with a bad bug that weekend.
> 
> Based on what I've seen, it seems like a worthwhile exploration of the BJJ problem space. I like the half-guard system. The top game seems interesting. I have some issues with the Rubber Guard. It seems attribute-dependent. It tangles the bottom person up with the top person so that a rapid emergency exit is impractical. It keeps the bottom person square instead of searching for a superior angle. As others have mentioned, I prefer the Williams guard.
> 
> All those opinions are tentative and subject to revision whenever I finally get the chance to work firsthand with someone who is expert in the system. I'm still hoping to meet Bravo at some point. He seems so enthusiastic about BJJ that I am confident I would enjoy talking with him.



I do enjoy some of their transitions, and their half guard play is pretty damn good. If anyone saw the rematch between Bravo and Royler Gracie at Metamoris 3, you'll see just how potent that half guard game is. He effectively shut down and frustrated one of the best Gracie Jj players in the world, and the only reason Gracie didn't get his leg popped off was because the Gracies made some shady rules in the outset.

If you ever meet Bravo, make sure you bring some brownies.


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## Charlemagne

A bit of thread necromancy here, my apologies. 

As for Bravo, he is obviously an incredibly talented practitioner and I think innovation is good all around.  My only real thoughts on his BJJ are: 1) it seems to be getting pretty far away from real world self-defense to me, and that is what it was supposed to be; and, 2) his claims that people should stop training Gi and focus on No Gi (most of the guys dominating the No Gi game are Gi guys, so that doesn't really add up).


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## MFC__2020

I like to think of it as Anti Jiu Jitsu Jiu Jitsu.  Very unique.


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## SuperSnakeCrane87

Hanzou said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on this style of Jiujitsu? I listen to Joe Rogan's podcasts quite a bit, and Eddie Bravo is on there quite a bit promoting the system.
> 
> Their names are pretty strange, and they seem pretty reliant on the Rubber Guard, which I think is highly limited.
> 
> However, I do like their no-gi stuff, and their push to make it more applicable for MMA.



I have not rolled with every 10th Planet practitioner, but in general from what I've experienced its a much more casual setting for sport based fighting, attitude wise.  Some of the words for the moves border on hate speech.

Physically speaking I think 10th Planet style is known for its flexibility, unorthodox positions, and submissions.


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