# Absense of Traditional Blocking??



## Nightingale (Sep 18, 2003)

I've seen several threads in this forum comment on the "absence of traditional blocking" in JKD.  What do you do instead of blocking?


----------



## pknox (Sep 18, 2003)

We strike.  Either you intercept with a trap and then strike, or strike before the opponent strikes you.  The trap would not be like a traditional block per se, but instead could be a strike or lock in itself -- just like in Kenpo.


----------



## arnisador (Sep 18, 2003)

Where I study we focus on destructions and trapping. The latter often means getting "jammed up" in a fight, then knocking the arm out of the way and ideally into the person's body to limit their mobility. (It looks better than it sounds here!) Intercepting or attacking to enter are also possibilities. We practice boxing-style parries sometimes but not a lot of blocks in the TMA sense.


----------



## cfr (Sep 20, 2003)

We dont do any inside, outside blocks, karate type blocks. Parry. Hands in front of face.  Beat to the punch.


----------



## Mormegil (Sep 22, 2003)

There is also simulteanous defense and offense.  This comes primarily from Wing Chun.

For instance if an opponent was throwing a straight punch to your nose, a simultaenous defense offense example would be a cross parry while you bob / slip either outside or inside, while using a finger jab to the throat or eyes with your lead hand.


Another example would be against a lead hook to the head:  boxing cover or "taun sao" with one hand, and punch to the nose with the other.


So neither of these use the "traditional" block, then counter-attack.   That is done, but isn't as efficient, and is usually done with a parry, pat or something more "economical" than a full forearm block.


The better alternative would be to dodge and strike simultaenously.  The best would be to intercept, striking before their hit lands.


----------



## Cthulhu (Oct 14, 2003)

I think 'traditional' blocking refers to the blocks one tends to see in karate, TKD, and similar systems.  Some JKD practitioners seem to use Wing Chun blocking motions, like pak sao, bong sao, etc., but done with a simultaneous strike (pak da, et al.).

Rather than traditional blocking, where force is met with force, interceptions and stop-hits are used, which are basically attacks into an attack or attacking on the opponent's preparation to attack.

Hope this makes a lick of sense to somebody.  

Cthulhu


----------



## arnisador (Oct 14, 2003)

We were practicing interceptions this morning in class (Mon. morning).

In fact, for one technique, we first practiced avoiding it, then jamming it, then a destruction.


----------



## Cthulhu (Oct 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *We were practicing interceptions this morning in class (Mon. morning).
> 
> In fact, for one technique, we first practiced avoiding it, then jamming it, then a destruction. *



Destructions are your friends, if not on the recieving end.  

Cthulhu


----------



## 7starmantis (Oct 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *Destructions are your friends, if not on the recieving end.
> 
> Cthulhu *



What is meant by a destruction? I don't understand the term I guess.

7sm


----------



## Cthulhu (Oct 20, 2003)

Destructions refer to destroying the incoming weapon/limb.

Simple example: Straight punch comes in, use a parry to guide the punch into your rear elbow.  

Cthulhu


----------



## 7starmantis (Oct 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *Destructions refer to destroying the incoming weapon/limb.
> 
> Simple example: Straight punch comes in, use a parry to guide the punch into your rear elbow.
> ...



Gotcha. Like a break or lock of some sort then.

7sm


----------



## Cthulhu (Oct 21, 2003)

Not a lock, or a break from grappling.  Actually destroying the incoming weapon with a strike or strategic placement of a body part.

Cthulhu


----------



## Karazenpo (Oct 21, 2003)

Imho, the highest level of the block/strike sequence is no block at all-a stop hit! I believe that is also the premise in JKD. read body language, watch his shoulders and intercept with your own punch/strike or kick. Sometimes, blocking is necceassy because its kind of a natural thing to raise your arm to protect your face or lower it to protect the groin.  We may not be ready to stop hit so blocking must be taught. Also, we practice blocks in Karazenpo both hard and soft but the hard blocks are just that, HARD! They are mean't to disable the attacking limb. It's just like throwing a punch to the head or body, instead your target just happens to be a limb! I remember a long time ago reading in a martial art magazine , this instructor did an article knocking power blocking. He had his uke in the perfect forward stance with his right arm out just as you would execute the lunge or step through punch in Shotokan's Taikyoku Shodan. He then does his power block and shows how open the uke is, stating soft blocks are more efficient and allow for a quick counter- strike(s). Here's the problem I saw with that. Instructors, for safety reasons and less wear and tear on the students, began using power blocks with no power, so ofcourse the uke would be standing there picture perfect and ready to throw something else. That is just as ridiculous as saying a good right hook to the jaw would leave the uke totally unaffected, know what I mean? Many of us started to get into that habit for a while. As I'm sure we all know, the power block is delivered to the bicep, median nerve, elbow or even shoulder with full power, messing the attacker up just like a good right hook to the jaw will be making him have dinner through a straw for a while. Power blocks definitely have there place as soft blocking does but if possible, I'd rather stop hit to the head, torso or stop kick to the knees/groin.


----------



## Cthulhu (Oct 21, 2003)

A destruction is basically an interception, which ties into the JKD thread.  There are a couple of reasons I prefer destructions to stop-hits:

1) The opponent may well be a trained fighter who has little to no telegraphing of attacks.

2) If you apply a successful stop-hit that doesn't put the opponent down, he still has his full complement of weapons to attack you with.  Even if a destruction doesn't drop the opponent or take him out of the fight, he is without the weapon you destroyed.

3) They're just mean.

Cthulhu


----------



## Karazenpo (Oct 21, 2003)

You've made an excellent point. Actually, I train at Gm. S. George Pesare's Kempo Karate Institute and they do put an emphasis on destruction blocks also. Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu does have a softer side but it is predominately a hard, powerful karate-type style. I also trained with one of Gm. Pesare's black belts, Professor Nick Cerio, he tended to favor more of the softer approach. However, I do agree with your post and you do have me thinking and that's a good thing!, lol. Timing is also critical for the interception but then again, so isn't it for the stop hit. Thanks for your reply.


----------



## 7starmantis (Oct 21, 2003)

When I said break, I think I ment what you guys are talking about. In mantis we do alot of "destructions" ,from what I gather from you guys, such as a break using the yielding principle. I don't kno wif you mean including the yielding, but we do alot of initial breaks from a punch. Kind of hard to explain over this medium.  

7sm


----------



## IMAA (Oct 23, 2003)

Hi,  
      pushing this on a bit further, in JKD were taught not to hesitate nor waste any movement.  When we do anything its to strike.   Many traditionalist fail to pick up on this method.  Just like what is found in basic trapping drills your taught that 1/2 beat motion by inserting a 'da' (punch) in any area as possible, prefferably applying it in a area that will count.  But as Bruce said, " As long as it scores"!

     We should not ever forget the notion that anytime you begin to "counter" a strike from your opponent that your counter is a strike.  I use the term Counter because I dont believe in blocking, anytime im supposedly blocking im countering a strike by striking them.  As well as I attack in pairs or three's.  Meaning anytime I hit or what-not im using the "ABC" series.  Meaning one limb of mine may strike to the face area to "blind" ie. BiuJee as my other is attacking somewhere at the same time.   We see this in the Pak Da-"Slaphand, hit" done in a simotaneous movement.  Its not a pak and then hit, its slap-hit at the same time as your driving forward into your opponent.  Anytime you have to counter or parry a strike you should be striking w/ all the limbs you have and using your power to drive forward.  If this means by then moving into the Jik Chung Choy (Chain punches).   If you have to shoot a a Jik tek "stop kick" you should lead or intercept by countering anything in the upper area by attacking on that same line of motion.    

  The moral of this message is:  Don't just "block" if thats what you do without having an instant counter.  When executed correctly your counter is a strike....

HIT, HIT, HIT, and HIT SOME more.....

Have a nice day!
IMAA


----------



## NYCRonin (Oct 23, 2003)

IMAA
   My JKD concepts training came from a great guy and dedicated teacher - Neil Caufield (last I knew, he was in Florida). He would have agreed with your post above, I believe.
   One of the great things that JKD 'sanctioned' was the aggressive side of self protection - although common knowledge now, quite revolutionary 'back in the day'.

Hitting on the 1/2 beat is so cool. Hit, hit hit...and hit some more.


----------



## DeLamar.J (Oct 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nightingale _
> *I've seen several threads in this forum comment on the "absence of traditional blocking" in JKD.  What do you do instead of blocking? *


 Say someone is thoring a right hook at you, you throw up your left shoulder to block your face and left hook them as they are attacking you. Intercepting there attack, striking them and blocking all at the same time.


----------



## WhiteTiger (Nov 24, 2003)

To intercept your opponents attack you must be able to read your attackers intent.  This, in my opinion, is the most difficult asspect of any fighting art.  There are so many varibles to an individuals body language, it is difficult to pick them out in only a few seconds.  
How do you study or analyze an individuals intent?
What keys or triggers do you look for?


----------



## Karazenpo (Nov 24, 2003)

Yes, White Tiger,  I concur, it is very difficult. I've been trained to watch the shoulders. They will be the first sign at the begining of a punch or kick along with the 'shoulder shift' to get the power hand to the rear. Also, the eyes may open wide just prior to the attack.


----------

