# The Backfist Strike



## MJS (Jul 6, 2006)

What are your thoughts on this strike? This is a strike that is probably found in a good majority of the arts out there. I've done this strike countless times on the focus pads as well as during sparring. However, taking into consideration the small bones in the back of the hand, hitting something hard could possibly lead to injuring the hand.

For myself, I tend to lean more towards using a hammerfist strike. I think its a more powerful hit and the chance of injury is a bit less IMO.

Now, this is not to say that I've dropped the backfist from my bag of strikes, just that depending on the target, I'd probably not pick that as my first choice.

Any other thoughts?

Mike


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## Grenadier (Jul 6, 2006)

I prefer to use the backfist on the more sensitive targets, such as the bridge of the nose or the temples.  The backfist is a better focused strike, and for me, quicker.    

For the other parts of the body that are better-shielded, I'll use the hammer fist instead.  Like you said, much less chance of breaking something in your own hand, and against a hard target, such as the top of the skull, you want that safety margin.


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## Brother John (Jul 6, 2006)

I'm with the Spider-Muncher...
well......not really. that gives me the geebees

....but I agree with Grenadier.
It's all about WHAT you are hitting.
There are many Good strikes that are bad when applied to the wrong target.

Your Brother
John


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## samurai69 (Jul 6, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> What are your thoughts on this strike? This is a strike that is probably found in a good majority of the arts out there. I've done this strike countless times on the focus pads as well as during sparring. However, taking into consideration the small bones in the back of the hand, hitting something hard could possibly lead to injuring the hand.
> 
> For myself, I tend to lean more towards using a hammerfist strike. I think its a more powerful hit and the chance of injury is a bit less IMO.
> 
> ...


 
even in training when i start training back fists it soon turns into a hammerfist......... 

I have used to good effect the relaxed back of hand slap to the groin, probably the closest i have come to usinfg the back fist

.


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## stone_dragone (Jul 6, 2006)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> I prefer to use the backfist on the more sensitive targets, such as the bridge of the nose or the temples. The backfist is a better focused strike, and for me, quicker.
> 
> For the other parts of the body that are better-shielded, I'll use the hammer fist instead. Like you said, much less chance of breaking something in your own hand, and against a hard target, such as the top of the skull, you want that safety margin.


 
I agree with G as well...

Personnally, I prefer to use the snapping backfist as a set up technique, similar to a jab.  I was once taught to use it as a knockout technique and couldn't get over the mental picture of my hand shattering on a skull.


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## HKphooey (Jul 6, 2006)

Love it for the quick "sting" to the nose or groin.


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## Robert Lee (Jul 6, 2006)

If you hit right your hitting with the knuckles not the back of the hand In a back fist. Its not a big hit but can do some damage.


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## matt.m (Jul 6, 2006)

I have seen people break with backfist.  I am going with the crowd on this one as well.  It is all about what you are going to hit.


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## Franc0 (Jul 6, 2006)

stone_dragone said:
			
		

> Personnally, I prefer to use the snapping backfist as a set up technique, similar to a jab.


 
Same thoughts, kinda. I'm feelin' like the backfist in most MA's is an equivalent to the "jab" with boxing and the like. Depending on when, where and how you hit, it can be a stunner or dropper, which is best followed up with with more powerful shots, when it comes to seriously taking out the opponent. There are several different types of backfists also. The "snapping" backfist as mentioned before, used heavily in point type sparring. The "follow through" type of backfist that precedes the other hands strike ( imagine a right backhand followed directly by a left straight punch), or a spinning backfist, which is another type of "follow through" backhand, and the dead arm "backhanded beeotch slap", and other variables. Along with the hammer fists, backhand strikes have their places too, it's just a matter of knowin' when it's right.

Franco


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## Jimi (Jul 6, 2006)

I concur, I would not want to land a backfist to someones chin or the crown of their head, knuckles or not. I agree that striking at the sensitive targets on the face like the nose, eyes/temples and even an ear can cause great stunning effect. I also see that the backfist can come from defensive and offensive movements. Example- lead hand inside parry against a jab/backfist and aim the elbow to fire the backfist as a counter. I also like to use an elbow cover  as a sheild then aim and fire. (This shield is much like a thai or fillipino vertical elbow cover/shield except it is horizontal at the shoulders, like a vampire cloaking with his cape. LOL) I also like use a backfist as a follow up to a quick hook, like a tight ridgehand or defensive hook, then aim the elbow and fire.  The backfist is very versitle(SP?) and can be done many ways, Wing Chun practioners like to use it as a follow up to a Bong Sao (Bridge Hand) and roll the elbow over the arm to backfist. Kung Fu Theater anyone? PEACE


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## Gemini (Jul 6, 2006)

I don't think of it as a primary strike, but as with anything else we learn, it has it's time and place to be effective. 

A friend of mine working as a bouncer had a particularly large fellow in his face one evening trying to intimitate him. This individual was so close that he knew there was no way my friend could do anything, or so he thought. My friend brought his hand up, palm out as to fend off a blow, and Wham! he turned it over and back fisted him taking three teeth out from literally two inches away.

After that, I've never doubted any method of striking when done by someone who knows how.


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## Dark (Jul 6, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> What are your thoughts on this strike? This is a strike that is probably found in a good majority of the arts out there. I've done this strike countless times on the focus pads as well as during sparring. However, taking into consideration the small bones in the back of the hand, hitting something hard could possibly lead to injuring the hand.
> 
> For myself, I tend to lean more towards using a hammerfist strike. I think its a more powerful hit and the chance of injury is a bit less IMO.
> 
> ...


 
Well I prefer the back fist for face shots, I have pointy knuckles so they tend to leave open bruises with the back fist. And depending on the exicution there of you can take most people, even other martial artists by surprise with it.

I'm never had a problem with self injury from the strike, though I'm not going for a rib target with the back fist either its purely a temple, face and groin strike.


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## tradrockrat (Jul 6, 2006)

well, my opinions are pretty well sumed up by the majority of the posters here - there are times and places for every strike, but due to my previous training, the backfist tends to be a snapping strike to vital areas (eyes, nose, groin, etc.), and it really isn't a fist at all - it's a cupped hand (hood of the cobra) and I practice extensively with the set of nine hammerfist strikes we use.  I love the hammerfist!


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## BlackCatBonz (Jul 6, 2006)

i generally use the first 2 knuckles as the point of contact for a backfist....the same as i use for a straight punch.
the targets are usually soft tissue or nerves that are close to the surface.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 6, 2006)

> i generally use the first 2 knuckles as the point of contact for a backfist....the same as i use for a straight punch.


 
me also.
I was taught that it was another version of the punch and that it had more penatrating power with the 2 knuckles


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## pstarr (Jul 6, 2006)

Yes, it uses the first two knuckles - most people perform it with just arm/shoulder movement.  If you can learn to utilize the power of your whole body with it which requires some special training), it can be a devastating blow and possibly shatter bone.


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## still learning (Jul 6, 2006)

Hello, Great point guys....yes the backfist is another weapon to use...quick..fast..and one of our closest weapons.....bridge of the nose,temple area, neck area, groin area..eye sockets...it has it's purpose..use wisely.....

use more as a whipping action and wrist bends at the last moment..for more impact............Aloha


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## Explorer (Jul 7, 2006)

I strike with the knuckles, just like a straight punch.  I also use it for quick, snapping strikes.  However, I really like it as an uppercut ... to the jaw (S-5; S-6), chin (duh), under the back ribs just above the kidney, under the front ribs ... the thing really hurts.

One motion is snapping the other driving ... if you get my drift.


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## Fluffy (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm with Expl.  I use my nuckles, and snap as well.  I have found the backfist as a great reactive strike.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Jul 8, 2006)

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> If you hit right your hitting with the knuckles not the back of the hand In a back fist. Its not a big hit but can do some damage.



Right, using your knuckles can minimize possible damage. Also, I think this strike might be better used on soft tissues than on bones.


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## bujuts (Jul 9, 2006)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> me also.
> I was taught that it was another version of the punch and that it had more penatrating power with the 2 knuckles


I'll third that.  By and large striking with the back fist is fueld and supported by little more than the contraction of the tricep.  On impact it is structurally weak.  If you elongate the arc (the arc formed by the articulation of the elbow with the fist as at the radius), and drive in the knuckles, with a lowered elbow you can achieve proper anatomical alignment open impact.  By this then, you can deliver a back "knuckle" strike (as opposed to a backfist strike), as hard as a plain ol' punch.

Good topic,

Steven Brown
Universal Kenpo Federation


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## Shaolinwind (Jul 9, 2006)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> I prefer to use the backfist on the more sensitive targets, such as the bridge of the nose or the temples. The backfist is a better focused strike, and for me, quicker.
> 
> 
> > I second that.  Bridge o' the nose.  And, bonus, the average opponent isn't going to expect a strike to come from the strange direction from which that strike comes.


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## Ants (Jul 9, 2006)

http://www.lookatentertainment.com/v/v-640.htm


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## Rook (Jul 9, 2006)

Works like a jab.  I doubt you're likely to break knuckles.


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## Dark (Jul 9, 2006)

Two things spring to mind in that video, one is ha ha the pimp got pimp slapped and two is there is a primary example of the maintaining dominance mentality of the so called "street people" being that the pimps body language displaied no signs of attack. Most likely he'd have talked trash and not backed back it up if the other guy walked away. But getting slapped around might have taught himsomething lol...


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## 7starmantis (Jul 12, 2006)

Yeah, we use the knuckles as well. Its true, the target determines its effectiveness. However, like several have said, if you can utilize your waiste and generate "twisting" power you can have much more effect with them.

7sm


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 12, 2006)

I would use it any time my hand crosses the center line.
Sean


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## crushing (Jul 12, 2006)

Ants said:
			
		

> http://www.lookatentertainment.com/v/v-640.htm




As the Oscar award winning song from "Hustle and Flow" goes. . ."It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp"


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## Adept (Jul 13, 2006)

There are very few instances when I would use a backfist over another strike, such as a horizontal hammer-fist.

Not to say I'd never use it, or that it can't be used, but it's not something I see myself using often.


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## thescottishdude (Jul 20, 2006)

the backfist is meant to be used when it is available, not really as a choice between that and a normal punch. its quicker than starting a new punch from closer towards you.


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## Kwai chang caine (Jul 20, 2006)

Just like any movement I would only use this strike when the oppurtunity presented itself. Any movement or strike has its uses, only when implemented correctly.


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## jacktnicol (Aug 5, 2006)

i agree that it's all about the target. I wouldn't advise doing a back fist to an area that is too hard for your hand depending on how "soft" your hands are this may very from student to student.

Jack


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## lll000000lll (Aug 6, 2006)

rarely do i practice the backfist, i find that it is not as effective as some of my other strikes.

i would agree that is posses a threat of hand injury.

i'd rather use my elbow, wich is much more powerfull and rock solid.


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## Em MacIntosh (May 14, 2007)

I use the backfist on my freinds chest to get his attention when a hottie walks by.


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## green meanie (May 14, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> Personnally, I prefer to use the snapping backfist as a set up technique, similar to a jab.


 
Same here. :asian:


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## Em MacIntosh (May 15, 2007)

I also use the backfist on the toes when someone kicks (or just punch them in the foot)


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## MrE2Me2 (May 19, 2007)

I would agree with all the following that have been mentioned so far.
  I use the back of my knuckles in the backfist strike (not the back of the hand).
  It can be used like a jab against the temple or the bridge of the nose as an effective stunner.
  It can also be used to smash down on an incoming foot.
  As well, done in a swinging fashion, it makes a nasty downward foot block.


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## Drac (May 19, 2007)

Grenadier said:


> I prefer to use the backfist on the more sensitive targets, such as the bridge of the nose or the temples. The backfist is a better focused strike, and for me, quicker.


 
I'd try it with my "sap" gloves on..


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## Adept (May 19, 2007)

MrE2Me2 said:


> I use the back of my knuckles in the backfist strike (not the back of the hand).



Not to pick on you here, but...

The distance between the knuckles and the back of the fist is perhaps an inch and a half. During the heat of an actual altercation, distance judgement is often out. In the training hall, making impact with the knuckles is easy, but with the adrenaline dump, against a moving, aggressive and live opponent, it is easy to mis-judge by a couple of inches. Not to say the knuckle-impact backfist has no use in self defense, but people training it should be aware that even intending to impact with the knuckles poses a significant risk to the hand bones, especially when being used against the head or other hard target.



> It can also be used to smash down on an incoming foot.
> As well, done in a swinging fashion, it makes a nasty downward foot block.



Not sure I'd like to belt the back of my hand into someones foot if they were wearing shoes, myself!


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## MrE2Me2 (May 21, 2007)

Hello Adept,

  You posted, _During the heat of an actual altercation, distance judgement is often out. In the training hall, making impact with the knuckles is easy, but with the adrenaline dump, against a moving, aggressive and live opponent, it is easy to mis-judge by a couple of inches._

  You also posted, _people training it should be aware that even intending to impact with the knuckles poses a significant risk to the hand bones, especially when being used against the head or other hard target._

  You are absolutely right here. 
  I had an instructor you missed with a backfist one night in practice and hit an elbow.
  Still, the backfist is a very quick weapon that has significant power when it does land.
  (Ive seen at least one guy go to the hospital from it.)

  You posted, _Not sure I'd like to belt the back of my hand into someones foot if they were wearing shoes, myself!_

  Against a bare foot the descending backfist makes a dandy fight stopper.
  But against a steel toed boot, you are correct here too.

  I was taught to use the downward foot block against the lower leg.
  The point was to move back and strike the side of a front kick leg (for example) as it swung into range.

  But whether Im striking the top of the kick or the side of it, I usually find that its an either/or thing.
  Either my block (backfist) lands or Im in a world of hurt.

  Regards, MrE2Me2


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## Em MacIntosh (May 22, 2007)

Sometimes, instead of a backfist to, say, the bridge of the nose, you can rake the fingers across the eyes.  Especially if you're really fast.  Never tried it myself though.


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## blackbelt507 (May 28, 2007)

The backfist is a great "stunning" move that can work well if used properly to a soft area such as the temple or in a downward motion to the nose. A lunging backfist is also effective.


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## blackbelt507 (May 28, 2007)

I totally agree with the raking across the eyes. You could do a backfist to the temple, retract and then follow it up with a raking motion across the eyes and face.


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## kidswarrior (May 29, 2007)

Many good points already, so I'll just add my personal preferences. Love the backfist to the ribs as a 'cheap shot' when they're not thinking about it (As two or three on one, and the 'friend' is standing sideways to me--once I just lightly tapped a senior student, pretty tough guy, in this fashion as a demo, and he dropped straight to the ground--scared me to death). It's also great against the meaty part of arms--or legs (as inner/outer thighs), if in range. The ridge of knuckles makes a kind of cleaver action that cuts into the meat. don't really try it to the face much. As *Adept *said, in the heat of battle and all, too easy to hit wrong....


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## Touch Of Death (May 29, 2007)

lll000000lll said:


> rarely do i practice the backfist, i find that it is not as effective as some of my other strikes.
> 
> i would agree that is posses a threat of hand injury.
> 
> i'd rather use my elbow, wich is much more powerfull and rock solid.


The elbow happens at a different range; so, what are you doing that makes it not as strong as a straight punch?
Sean


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## Touch Of Death (May 29, 2007)

Adept said:


> Not to pick on you here, but...
> 
> The distance between the knuckles and the back of the fist is perhaps an inch and a half. During the heat of an actual altercation, distance judgement is often out. In the training hall, making impact with the knuckles is easy, but with the adrenaline dump, against a moving, aggressive and live opponent, it is easy to mis-judge by a couple of inches. Not to say the knuckle-impact backfist has no use in self defense, but people training it should be aware that even intending to impact with the knuckles poses a significant risk to the hand bones, especially when being used against the head or other hard target.
> 
> ...


Not to pick on you but you have to go through the knuckles to get to the rest of your hand; also, you run a risk of knuckle injury any time you use them... ever.
Sean


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## Touch Of Death (May 29, 2007)

green meanie said:


> Same here. :asian:


Why not as a finishing blow?


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