Your Favorite Extension

[Seabrook]

I teach the footwork in Deflecting Hammer slightly different. I find that by stepping straight back to 6 o’clock, you improve the economy of motion for the elbow strike (one continuous motion) and that you lose this somewhat by stepping off line. I also feel that stepping off line also takes away borrowed force. Again that is my opinion, although I know a lot of Kenpoists that feel the same way that I do.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[parkerkarate]

I teach the footwork in Deflecting Hammer slightly different. I find that by stepping straight back to 6 o’clock, you improve the economy of motion for the elbow strike (one continuous motion) and that you lose this somewhat by stepping off line. I also feel that stepping off line also takes away borrowed force. Again that is my opinion, although I know a lot of Kenpoists that feel the same way that I do.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

I totally agree with you. Although stepping off works in Thrusting Salute you would have to form another line of entry to get the elbow so it does take away from the borrowed force.

 

[jonah2]

I teach the footwork in Deflecting Hammer slightly different. I find that by stepping straight back to 6 o’clock, you improve the economy of motion for the elbow strike (one continuous motion) and that you lose this somewhat by stepping off line. I also feel that stepping off line also takes away borrowed force. Again that is my opinion, although I know a lot of Kenpoists that feel the same way that I do.

Although I agree with the borrowed force element I cant agree with the keeping on line. By keeping on line you must phyiscally block the kick to avoid being hit or evade far enough backward to avoid contact. Both of which I wouldn't want to do. I dont want to rely on a block of a front thrusting chrarging leg!!, or be too far away to counter.
Using a step off line you use a parrying block therefore only 'deflecting' the strike slightly letting his momentum continue on 12 - 6 line. The returning elbow still uses borrowed force but on a slight angle.
I think the trouble with some executions of deflecting hammer is that the block is taught as a block to some how turn the attacker to then attack him from behind with the elbow. We learn it as a parry block with step off line keeping him on his original line.

Jonah

 

[Seabrook]

By keeping on line you must phyiscally block the kick to avoid being hit or evade far enough backward to avoid contact.
Jonah

I teach Deflecting Hammer for a rear leg side kick, although it works off a front kick as well.

I find the "deflection" works great by stepping to 6 o'clock. It also allows you to continue the circle (by not stopping the motion) from your downward block to the right inward elbow better. I used to practice it by stepping offline as well, but find that 6 o'clock works much easier. But hey, I know a lot of people that can make it work nicely by stepping to 7:30 as well, so to each his own.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[jonah2]

I teach Deflecting Hammer for a rear leg side kick, although it works off a front kick as well.

Interesting not seen that but hey cant see why not in principle. However I thought (IMHO) the whole thought behind the tech was deflection of the strike while still letting him past using his momentum for the elbow. There is more momentum in a fast moving front thrust kick than a side kick. This is probably where our differing thought lie.

I find the "deflection" works great by stepping to 6 o'clock. It also allows you to continue the circle (by not stopping the motion) from your downward block to the right inward elbow better.

Cant see how stepping to 6 inproves the continuation of the circle as opposed to 7 / 8. The path of the arm through block to elbow is the same which ever direction you step. Any way far be it for me to argue with you Mr Seabrook. You have FAR more experience than me. Am I not seeing something here

Respectfully - Jonah

 

[Solidman82]

I don't now nor have I ever taken any style of Kenpo. But reading the names of these moves oddly enough entices me to find a good school. It's like reading the cheat-sheet from Tekken or something.

 

[Seabrook]

Darren,

Check out this clip of Larry Tatum executing Deflecting Hammer.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[Seabrook]

Oops. Here is the link to Larry Tatum's technique:

http://www.ltatum.com/TipOfTheWeekArchives.html

Just click Week 5.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[jonah2]

Darren, Check out this clip of Larry Tatum executing Deflecting Hammer.

Mr Seabrook - thanks for the link. I will have to wait 'till I can use a computer with sound on it - Hard to understand the instruction given by Mr Tatum on the pc i'm on right now. I will respond next week if I get the chance.

I'll go through it with my instructor too. Thats the beauty of these forums - you get to constantly evaluate your tool box when your outside the studio. God bless MT eh!

jonah

 

[MJS]

I teach Deflecting Hammer for a rear leg side kick, although it works off a front kick as well.

I find the "deflection" works great by stepping to 6 o'clock. It also allows you to continue the circle (by not stopping the motion) from your downward block to the right inward elbow better. I used to practice it by stepping offline as well, but find that 6 o'clock works much easier. But hey, I know a lot of people that can make it work nicely by stepping to 7:30 as well, so to each his own.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

I've always done Def. Hammer off of a right front kick,stepping to 7 o'clock, although it can as you said work from a side kick.

Question for you Jamie. When doing the tech. off of the front kick, are you stepping to 7 or do you still step to 6?

Mike

 

[AvPKenpo]

Here is one of the reasons we do not teach Deflecting Hammer(Deflecting the kick) as a step back to 7 or 7:30.

The shoulders and red line which represent the kick are at the same point. I only rotated the body from 6 to 7:30 which is represented by the yellow line or toe heel line. As you can see the centerline for the body gets closer to the kick as you go up the circle. For me sometimes it is easier to see. We also do not necessarily block the kick. We get out of the range of kick and when the kick is at its length we then guide the leg to where we want it. As his momentum is carrying him/her forward we then shuffle in with the elbow to maximize the strike.

Michael

 

[Doc]

Here is one of the reasons we do not teach Deflecting Hammer(Deflecting the kick) as a step back to 7 or 7:30.

The shoulders and red line which represent the kick are at the same point. I only rotated the body from 6 to 7:30 which is represented by the yellow line or toe heel line. As you can see the centerline for the body gets closer to the kick as you go up the circle. For me sometimes it is easier to see. We also do not necessarily block the kick. We get out of the range of kick and when the kick is at its length we then guide the leg to where we want it. As his momentum is carrying him/her forward we then shuffle in with the elbow to maximize the strike.

Michael

Although your illustration is correct, it does not account for the ultimate variable, "footwork." Your assumption that the move to 7:30 is simply a "step out" is probably in most instances when threatened by a front kick from the rear, is incorrect. Although the footwork is in fact toward 7:30, your illustration is more akin to a "cover" type move. Whereas most, under these circumstances, would "step" AND push-drag toward 7:30 adjusting the distance and "elongating" their position for a counter.

Both methods have validity, and I have no problem with those who choose to teach this type technique this way or the other, however you should be aware of the variables available to you in footwork to accomplish your goal(s), and that might influence your interpretation of "why" you choose one methodology over another.

 

[kenpoworks]

I base the initial defensive action of Push, Punch,Kick SDTs around move the target and then build from there, Deflecting Hammer is no different, I usally teach push drag to 7:30 and stil manage to borrow the oponents force on the elbow strike.

 

[Seabrook]

I've always done Def. Hammer off of a right front kick,stepping to 7 o'clock, although it can as you said work from a side kick.

Question for you Jamie. When doing the tech. off of the front kick, are you stepping to 7 or do you still step to 6?

Mike

Hi Mike,

I still like 6 o'clock, but again, I agree people can make it work by stepping to 7 o'clock.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com