Yes.... TKD has them

[Manny]

TKD as a MA has a lot of technikes that can be aply to SD these days, TKD is not only kicks altough I will use the kicks to stomach and below as targets and focus on legs as a targets, if the bad guy can't walk he can't fight. Talking about blows or hits nothing beats the elbow in short range, also the plam strike and the knife hand are very good too, the knee the goin is a good disuasive technike too.

However TKD is not only hitting or kicking, it has wrist/elbow ane even shoulder locks and throwing technikeas a la judo too, what TKD lacks to me is ground fighting technikes.

We must recover the anient or old tkd, how many times a fellow has told you TKD is only a olimpic game or sport? how many times another MA fellow has told you high kicks are nice in tournament buy useless on the streets? How many times somebody has told you TKD is a good aerobic exercise? 1,000 of times I've heard this and this really get me sick!

The problem is kids feel that a good roundhose kicks to the head is awesome but we must remeber the head is a small target to get well and almost all the head kicks miss the target.

So TKD taught the old way is a very efective way of built confidence and can gives ous a good chance to defend ourselves in the street or to defend uourselves agains a bar bully or school bully.

Manny

 

[terryl965]

This is so true but most instructor only know about the sport side of TKD

 

[Manny]

This is so true but most instructor only know about the sport side of TKD

You bet. How many top competitors at state level an instructor can have? well in my dojan there is only 3 or 4 kids that compete once or twice per year, if my dojan has 50 or 60 studentes we are talking of less 10% of the students that go to tournaments and these is only once or twice per year.

Giving the numbers I feel TKD has to have a 80-90% MA oriented class with 10% oriented to sports sparring like olimpic TKD.

Manny

 

[Errant108]

We must recover the anient or old tkd

There's no such thing as ancient TKD, unless by "ancient TKD" you mean Okinawan Shuri-te.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I come form Old School TKD (pre Olympic) and I know there is, or was, a lot of SD in it. But you don’t see many (I haven’t seen any) TKD school these days teaching close in hand techniques like I was taught or takedowns like I was taught. It is all high kicks, points and competition these days and to me that is rather sad since I do know what it use to be. And it would really be nice to see it come back but I have to be honest... I am not exactly sure that is possible these days and it may be too far gone already.... but I can also honestly say I hope I'm wrong about that last part

 

[ATC]

There's no such thing as ancient TKD, unless by "ancient TKD" you mean Okinawan Shuri-te.

Before the Japanese occupation of Korea there were Korean arts that were unique to Korea and were not Japanese influenced. TKD today is a blend of that plus what the Japanese brought to Korea.

No, the term Taekwondo was not a term pre 1950's but you must keep things in context. Taekwondo is not pure Karate and is much more dynamic. Yes you can see the karate flavor but TKD and Karate are not one and the same, Pre or Post Japanese influence.

 

[searcher]

There's no such thing as ancient TKD, unless by "ancient TKD" you mean Okinawan Shuri-te.

Oh please. I consider anything with a 50+ year vintage to be ancient.


And that means some of the guys/gals that frequent this area of the forums.:whip1:

 

[Manny]

I come form Old School TKD (pre Olympic) and I know there is, or was, a lot of SD in it. But you don’t see many (I haven’t seen any) TKD school these days teaching close in hand techniques like I was taught or takedowns like I was taught. It is all high kicks, points and competition these days and to me that is rather sad since I do know what it use to be. And it would really be nice to see it come back but I have to be honest... I am not exactly sure that is possible these days and it may be too far gone already.... but I can also honestly say I hope I'm wrong about that last part

I started in TKD back in 1983if I recall, and in those years the comon tkd class had, 1.-kicking,defences,punching,parrying,dodgin technikes, 2.-poomse, 3.-self defense and 4.-kyorugi.

Nowdays as long as I see in my actual dojan and other dojas: 1.-KICKING TECHNIKE.....2.-KICKING TECHNIKE..... 3.-KICKING TECHNIKE and all these kicking are high kicks..... very few poomse and almost none SD.

Manny

 

[howard]

Before the Japanese occupation of Korea there were Korean arts that were unique to Korea and were not Japanese influenced. TKD today is a blend of that plus what the Japanese brought to Korea.

What indigenous pre-occupation arts have influenced TKD?

 

[ATC]

What indigenous pre-occupation arts have influenced TKD?

Arts such as Subak and Taekkyeon both pre date the Japanese occupation.

 

[Cirdan]

Arts such as Subak and Taekkyeon both pre date the Japanese occupation.

The connection between these arts and TKD has been discussed ad naseum before and there is nothing to prove it. Nor does there appear to be any influence that can not readily be explained by TKD being what is is, Koreanized Shotokan. Mythmakers would have you believe otherwise ofcourse....

 

[Manny]

The connection between these arts and TKD has been discussed ad naseum before and there is nothing to prove it. Nor does there appear to be any influence that can not readily be explained by TKD being what is is, Koreanized Shotokan. Mythmakers would have you believe otherwise ofcourse....

Ok, so what was the first MA invented or created? Ummmm this is gona be a large reply. It's true the TKD masteres amoung other korean martial arts were influenced by japanese karate and chinese kung fu, as all the other martial arts I must say, but as long as we know back in 1950's the koreans returned to the ancient forms of korean martial arts as the Tae Kyon, Syrum,So Back and so on and integrated them in TKD.

So wich one was first? Kung Fu or Karate, POankration or ... I don't ecal the name of the ancient indian martial art... c'mon give me a break.

Manny

 

[Earl Weiss]

Ok, so what was the first MA invented or created?
Manny

First you would have to define "Martial Art" Probably harder than defining "Taekwon-Do".

 

[clfsean]

Ok, so what was the first MA invented or created? Ummmm this is gona be a large reply. It's true the TKD masteres amoung other korean martial arts were influenced by japanese karate and chinese kung fu, as all the other martial arts I must say, but as long as we know back in 1950's the koreans returned to the ancient forms of korean martial arts as the Tae Kyon, Syrum,So Back and so on and integrated them in TKD.

So wich one was first? Kung Fu or Karate, POankration or ... I don't ecal the name of the ancient indian martial art... c'mon give me a break.

Manny

Influenced?? Dan holders were more like it.

The very first martial art with humans as we know them now was Cain v Abel. In more "recent" times, Pankration has been placed high & mighty as an early MA along with suspect African things.

However it evolved, Far Eastern MAs have been pretty much on a migration path ... India -> China -> Japan/Korea/Okinawa (not in that specific order) with verifiable local arts (Te, Silat, Tribal/village/ethnic techniques) being added in & enhanced upon.

However with TKD, it's fair to say the migration was from Japan/Okinawa -> Korea.

I keep hearing about TSD's Chinese influence, but as a CMA practitioner for the past 10 years or so... I'm not seeing it. I see things in all MAs that can be performed with a certain mindset on the technique as crossing poltical/racial boundaries as (C/J/K/O MAs) but as a hard influence... not so much.

As a TKD practitioner since 1981 (inactive until recently), I am seeing JMA renamed TKD as I saw as early as 1982 with my best friend who studied Shotokan. Except in 1991, I met a guy teaching & studied for a while with him, Kong Soo Do. Might as well have been OMA or JMA... even called him Shihan & he wore the candy cane belt of JMA/OMA as a 6th dan.

 

[jim777]

Arts such as Subak and Taekkyeon both pre date the Japanese occupation.

Guys, we go over this ad nauseum every single summer. There is no documentation anywhere that whatever might have been Subak or taekkyeon ages ago ever existed as Martial Arts, or had any influence at all on what is now Tae Kwon Do now. Here is just one such thread that debated the question to death. And when I say "no documentation" I mean NONE. Anywhere. I really don't think we need to blow the whole summer on history again.

 

[Stac3y]

In case no one has mentioned this before, there's an article about TKD SD techniques in this month's Black Belt magazine.

 

[clfsean]

Guys, we go over this ad nauseum every single summer. There is no documentation anywhere that whatever might have been Subak or taekkyeon ages ago ever existed as Martial Arts, or had any influence at all on what is now Tae Kwon Do now. Here is just one such thread that debated the question to death. And when I say "no documentation" I mean NONE. Anywhere. I really don't think we need to blow the whole summer on history again.

Why not? Got anything better to do here?

 

[jim777]

Why not? Got anything better to do here?

Shhhh..... no LOL

 

[ACJ]

The very first martial art with humans as we know them now was Cain v Abel.

Can people stop using Cain and Abel as examples of martial arts, they're not real. I don't care if it's meant to be figurative or not, just say primitive humans..

 

[Cirdan]

(..) back in 1950's the koreans returned to the ancient forms of korean martial arts as the Tae Kyon, Syrum,So Back and so on and integrated them in TKD.

If you have new evidence, bring it. Kicking higher, renaming Shotokan Kata and bowing to the Korean flag does little to change historical and current facts.

So wich one was first? Kung Fu or Karate, POankration or ... I don't ecal the name of the ancient indian martial art... c'mon give me a break.

Does it matter? It certainly was not TKD or Karate. If the practicioners of Sipalki (4500 years old Korean art!) are to believed it must be them...