Xingyiquan

[Steel Tiger]

A few glaring examples: About 3:20, he turns what I'd call a hanging or wing 'block' into a driving arm bar by stepping (taking his whole body) through the opponent's space. At 4:45, I learned that shoulder bump in another CMA. Since your momentum is meeting his, it's very effective (and we found it can be intensified by grabbing the arms he throws out to keep his balance and pulling him around you--and down). At 5:15, similar to what I learned as the 'double down' block--lots of power because of body movement/weight.

One thing to remember (which you have pointed out already with "he's a body fighter”) about most CMA, particularly those styles lumped into the "Internal" category, the body is a fist. Basically if you miss with a palm strike it becomes an elbow miss with the elbow it becomes a shoulder strike kind of thing. And Xingyiquan is very much into hitting with as much of your body as possible. In the palm strike in Piquan the idea is to focus all your available body weight and power into that palm strike. The force comes downward and forward and I am told at higher levels it has an upward force as the last part of the strike as well.

Xingyiquan looks rather simplistic and boring to many and there really does not appear to be much to it when you look at plain forms. But it takes a lot of time to gain the alignment necessary to produce the power that Xingyi is famous for. Simply put, Xingyi hits like a truck and it isn't magic it is training.

And I want to add your posts here are helping me make a rather hard CMA training decision, thanks

With the concept of the body being as a fist there is more than just moving into an opponent's space. What you really needs to consider is moving completely through that space, almost as though he was not there. As far as internal CMAs xingyi is the most obvious at expressing this as it tends to move directly into and through an opponent. The longstep, half step combination foot work of xingyi really emphasises this concept and lends momentum and power to it. Bagua tends to move through an opponent in an oblique fashion, and taiji seems to draw an opponent out of his space.

 

[Xue Sheng]

In the solo forms from the first links, the art looks smooth and... well, I wondered what I was seeing (would it really work?). In this teaching footage, I now see what I missed: he's a body fighter, using his whole body to move or strike the opponent. This is what I learned CMA to be.

A few glaring examples: About 3:20, he turns what I'd call a hanging or wing 'block' into a driving arm bar by stepping (taking his whole body) through the opponent's space. At 4:45, I learned that shoulder bump in another CMA. Since your momentum is meeting his, it's very effective (and we found it can be intensified by grabbing the arms he throws out to keep his balance and pulling him around you--and down). At 5:15, similar to what I learned as the 'double down' block--lots of power because of body movement/weight.

And then there were about ten times that many things I learned for the first time by watching the rest of the vid. Great find! Thanks.

The shoulder bump is called kou in taiji and is one of the 13 postures.

You will see similarities in many CMA styles.

I have seen some applications in these videos as well that I did not know from my short time in Xingyiquan and I have learned form them as well and one thing I learned is how much I really like and miss training xingyiquan.

With the concept of the body being as a fist there is more than just moving into an opponent's space. What you really needs to consider is moving completely through that space, almost as though he was not there. As far as internal CMAs xingyi is the most obvious at expressing this as it tends to move directly into and through an opponent. The longstep, half step combination foot work of xingyi really emphasises this concept and lends momentum and power to it. Bagua tends to move through an opponent in an oblique fashion, and taiji seems to draw an opponent out of his space.

agreed but I would say all 3 styles, taiji, xingyi and bagua are capable of all 3 it is just what they specialize in. But I am making an assumption about bagua since I have little experience with it.

 

[kidswarrior]

The shoulder bump is called kou in taiji and is one of the 13 postures.

So I, too, can claim to be yet another of the myriad taiji 'instructors' and start selling my services? Maybe put an ad in a glossy magzine...

You will see similarities in many CMA styles.

I'm beginning to see that. I guess Youtube ain't such a bad thing after all. The three 'specialties' of each internal art mentioned by Steel Tiger are all present in Jimmy Woo's kung fu san soo, although my instructor went to great lengths to distance it from anything even vaguely internal.

I have seen some applications in these videos as well that I did not know from my short time in Xingyiquan and I have learned form them as well and one thing I learned is how much I really like and miss training xingyiquan.

Then I surely hope you get to train it again soon, my friend.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I have seen some applications in these videos as well that I did not know from my short time in Xingyiquan and I have learned form them as well and one thing I learned is how much I really like and miss training xingyiquan.

This, I posit, might be the dilemma to which you referred earlier. you seem to have a genuine connection to xingyi and I suspect you will find yourself there again at some point in the future.

agreed but I would say all 3 styles, taiji, xingyi and bagua are capable of all 3 it is just what they specialize in. But I am making an assumption about bagua since I have little experience with it.

I think you are right. The three concepts are important to all internal arts, and some others too, I guess.

So I, too, can claim to be yet another of the myriad taiji 'instructors' and start selling my services? Maybe put an ad in a glossy magzine...

A big glossy add! You have to be good to have one of those. But you also have to have a cool ethereal sounding name like Eagle Cloud Mountain Taiji.

I'm beginning to see that. I guess Youtube ain't such a bad thing after all. The three 'specialties' of each internal art mentioned by Steel Tiger are all present in Jimmy Woo's kung fu san soo, although my instructor went to great lengths to distance it from anything even vaguely internal.

Then I surely hope you get to train it again soon, my friend.

Well, the internal arts do have something of a bad reputation outside China. But it is interesting to hear that San Soo has these sorts of things in it. I know it is an eclectic style but I really don't know it that well. It is not that well represented down here in Australia.

 

[kidswarrior]

A big glossy add! You have to be good to have one of those. But you also have to have a cool ethereal sounding name like Eagle Cloud Mountain Taiji.

Perfect! In keeping with the spirit of my new enterprise, I'll start by stealing your idea! :lfao:

Well, the internal arts do have something of a bad reputation outside China. But it is interesting to hear that San Soo has these sorts of things in it. I know it is an eclectic style but I really don't know it that well. It is not that well represented down here in Australia.

The problem was, Jimmy wasn't the world-stage businessman that some of those early guys were in the late 50s-early 60s, when some arts spread all over the US, then abroad. This was probably intensified by his trouble with the language (English). So, KFSS never really took off in a huge (national) way outside of his personal orbit here in Southern California. He was a good businessman, but I think a better martial artist and teacher than self-promoter. But it's great for those of us who live here and have gotten to train San Soo. This is my perception, anyway. QUI-GON would know better than I.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This, I posit, might be the dilemma to which you referred earlier. you seem to have a genuine connection to xingyi and I suspect you will find yourself there again at some point in the future.

mmmmmm could be

A big glossy add! You have to be good to have one of those. But you also have to have a cool ethereal sounding name like Eagle Cloud Mountain Taiji.

Perfect! In keeping with the spirit of my new enterprise, I'll start by stealing your idea! :lfao:

You GOT to throw in the word "Dragon" somewhere for it to be REALLY succesful in the US like "Eagle Cloud Mountain Dragon Taiji" or Dragon Mist Mountain Eagle Taiji or something like that.

 

[kidswarrior]

You GOT to throw in the word "Dragon" somewhere for it to be REALLY succesful in the US like "Eagle Cloud Mountain Dragon Taiji" or Dragon Mist Mountain Eagle Taiji or something like that.

But what if it's so fancy I can't even remember the name of my own school, and keep changing it every time I say it? Does it matter? Oh, probably not, given some of the *teachers* I've run across. :uhyeah:

 

[Xue Sheng]

OK back to my obsession

Xingyiquan

 

[kidswarrior]

OK back to my obsession

Xingyiquan

Now this one, I can see application after application. Makes me want to take it frame by frame over a period of time (Five Years, One Kata, sound familiar? :wink, to see what emerges. Do we know if this is a particularly well-known form, or if it's something constructed on the local level? Cos if it's a staple, well, I have books...

Oh, I know, ya can't learn without a sifu. But if I've already learned much of this in a different format in another CMA, maybe I've already got/had the sifu...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Now this one, I can see application after application. Makes me want to take it frame by frame over a period of time (Five Years, One Kata, sound familiar? :wink, to see what emerges. Do we know if this is a particularly well-known form, or if it's something constructed on the local level? Cos if it's a staple, well, I have books...

Oh, I know, ya can't learn without a sifu. But if I've already learned much of this in a different format in another CMA, maybe I've already got/had the sifu...

I believe it is 5 elements cascade form, possibly Hebei style. I have had 2 different sifus for Hebei Xingyiquan and although they are similar they are not exactly the same and neither looks exactly like this. If I am right, and it is the cascade form, this is taught in two parts... kinda.

First you learn 5 elements individually piquan (splitting fist - metal), zuanquan (drill fist - water), bengquan (smashing/crushing fist - wood), paoquan (cannon/pounding fist - fire), hengquan (crossing fist - earth). After you learn those you put them together in the 5 element cascade form.

There are also 12 Animal forms in Hebei, in Shanxi I beleive it is 10 but you learn this in the same manner. All seperatly and then later put them together.

And then there are a whole lot of weapons forms, one of which I just found out about (single handed jain)

There are 3 main styles of Xingyiquan Shanxi, Henan and Hebei. There are also multiple off shoots of these and variations of each. Xingyiquan is, if you go for its legendary origin, very old (about 1000 years) so it has had time to change. If you go by the first historic documentation it is about 300 years old so again it has had time for multiple variations.

A big, Big BIG part of training Xingyiquan is Santi Shi standing practice. My last Sifu's Sifu told him that you need to be able to stand in this for 20 minutes per side to be considered a beginner.

More info here

 

[kidswarrior]

Interesting. I have/have read these: Li Tianji's The Skill of Xingyiquan (trans. Andrea Falk), and Xingyiquan by Liang, Shou-Yu & Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming (with their Twelve-Animal video). Have never attempted any of the movements, but they're fun as background and also inspire me to see my training in new ways.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Li Tianji's The Skill of Xingyiquan (trans. Andrea Falk), and Xingyiquan

That's my next Xingyiquan book I plan to buy.

Also Andrea Falk is a student of Di Guoyong and the translator of his book as well

 

[Jin Gang]

Now this one, I can see application after application. Makes me want to take it frame by frame over a period of time (Five Years, One Kata, sound familiar? :wink, to see what emerges. Do we know if this is a particularly well-known form, or if it's something constructed on the local level? Cos if it's a staple, well, I have books...

Oh, I know, ya can't learn without a sifu. But if I've already learned much of this in a different format in another CMA, maybe I've already got/had the sifu...

This is the form which is common to pretty much all Xingyi styles I've seen. I've always called it/seen it called "five element linkage form" or just "linkage form".

the form is about 1:27 into the video, after all five elements

this one doesn't get to anything till about 1:00 min in
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Hung Yi Hsiang of Taiwan walks through the form around 1:30 in this video

There's only a little bit of the linkage form here, and his style is a bit different than most others, but I like his power generation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCwikaU4s&feature=related

This is definately a form that you can find in books and videos, it's the first and primary form of almost all xingyi schools, I think

Just look online for "xingyi linkage form" or "xingyi five element linkage", you'll find tons of variations.

Watching different versions of the form and different expressions of xingyi have certainly informed how I practice for myself. Of course, xingyi is not a primary focus of mine, there was only a little of it in my school, so I've never spent a lot of time on it. I only know the five elements and linkage form.

 

[kidswarrior]

This is the form which is common to pretty much all Xingyi styles I've seen. I've always called it/seen it called "five element linkage form" or just "linkage form".

the form is about 1:27 into the video, after all five elements

this one doesn't get to anything till about 1:00 min in
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Hung Yi Hsiang of Taiwan walks through the form around 1:30 in this video

There's only a little bit of the linkage form here, and his style is a bit different than most others, but I like his power generation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCwikaU4s&feature=related

This is definately a form that you can find in books and videos, it's the first and primary form of almost all xingyi schools, I think

Just look online for "xingyi linkage form" or "xingyi five element linkage", you'll find tons of variations.

Watching different versions of the form and different expressions of xingyi have certainly informed how I practice for myself. Of course, xingyi is not a primary focus of mine, there was only a little of it in my school, so I've never spent a lot of time on it. I only know the five elements and linkage form.

Thanks, I'll go through the vids carefully when I'm more awake.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is the form which is common to pretty much all Xingyi styles I've seen. I've always called it/seen it called "five element linkage form" or just "linkage form".

the form is about 1:27 into the video, after all five elements

this one doesn't get to anything till about 1:00 min in
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Hung Yi Hsiang of Taiwan walks through the form around 1:30 in this video

There's only a little bit of the linkage form here, and his style is a bit different than most others, but I like his power generation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCwikaU4s&feature=related

This is definately a form that you can find in books and videos, it's the first and primary form of almost all xingyi schools, I think

Just look online for "xingyi linkage form" or "xingyi five element linkage", you'll find tons of variations.

Watching different versions of the form and different expressions of xingyi have certainly informed how I practice for myself. Of course, xingyi is not a primary focus of mine, there was only a little of it in my school, so I've never spent a lot of time on it. I only know the five elements and linkage form.

Cool

Feng Zheng-bao is great I have seen this video before, I forgot about it, thanks for posting it.

Feng Zheng-bao is Shanxi style Xingyiquan and Shanxi has a circle walking form taught to advanced students that is similar to bagua, it is at the end of this video.

Generally the first things you do traditionally in Xingyiquan are Wuji, Zhan Zhuang and Santi but the first forms you learn now are the 5 elements after that you learn the linking forms

 

[Xue Sheng]

Luo De Xiu's XingYi - Xingyi Rooster form

Old clips of Xingyiquan - I think these old clips are so cool

Old clip Hsing-i Animals

Shanxi Xingyi (1of2)

Shanxi Xingyi (2of2)

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sifu An Jian Qiu - Xingyiquan

 

[bowser666]

Thanks for posting this. Great stuff!!

 

[Steel Tiger]

That's some good stuff. An sifu's hand speed is frightening and his fajin is something to see.


I checked out his Chen bagua too and that is very impressive as well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

That's some good stuff. An sifu's hand speed is frightening and his fajin is something to see.


I checked out his Chen bagua too and that is very impressive as well.

I just watched his Baji and posted in my old Bajiquan thread.