Xing Yi Quan: Five element - Han Yanwu

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you say, "Beng (Wood) can conquer Beng (Wood) and you have options," then how useful is the Xing Yi 5 element theory?

The long fist way to execute a Beng Quan always start with a downward parry followed with a vertical punch. So, a downward parry can deflect an incoming chest level Beng Quan.

Besides the 5 elements, there is also the "symmetry".

In MA, a principle/strategy/technique can sometime counter itself. It's like to play the Go game. If you always put your chess at the symmetry position, you will never lose.

For example, when both A and B throw Beng Quan at opponent's chest, who will win? If they both punch at the same point, their fists should meet.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Besides the 5 elements, there is also the "symmetry".

In MA, a principle/strategy/technique can sometime counter itself. It's like to play the Go game. If you always put your chess at the symmetry position, you will never lose.

For example, when both A and B throw Beng Quan at opponent's chest, who will win? If they both punch at the same point, their fists should meet.

View attachment 30269

That is of course only if they are doing bengquan exactly the same way

 

[CMyers0323]

Anyone mind explaining the difference between Xing Yi and Xingyiba? I've been seeing more stuff on Xinyiba and they seem to make it sound like it's not exactly the same

 

[Xue Sheng]

Anyone mind explaining the difference between Xing Yi and Xingyiba? I've been seeing more stuff on Xinyiba and they seem to make it sound like it's not exactly the same

I believe Xingyiba is from Shaolin, Xingyiquan is not

About Xin Yi Ba | shaolintemple

www.shaolintemplekungfu.org

 

[Oily Dragon]

Anyone mind explaining the difference between Xing Yi and Xingyiba? I've been seeing more stuff on Xinyiba and they seem to make it sound like it's not exactly the same

Xinyi ba is a specific lineage of Shaolin-based practices that incorporate a lot of Qigong and what the Neigong schools would classify as "internal" training. I know a little, but I'll ask some teachers more to get some insight.

It pops up now and then in kung fu circles, Gene Ching himself had some comments below.

Xinyiba

Hi! Can anyone tell me about Shaolin Xinyiba? To my knowledge, there is very little information available. Has anyone done it? Are there any tapes, books, videos? Thanks in advance!

www.kungfumagazine.com

 

[Oily Dragon]

I believe Xingyiba is from Shaolin, Xingyiquan is not

About Xin Yi Ba | shaolintemple

www.shaolintemplekungfu.org

I believe there is a relationship between the Shaolin Xinyi Ba lineage and Xing Yi, some intermixing between them and others, like Heart-Mind Six Harmonies Fist (Xin Yi Liu He), Liu He Ba Fa Fist (Six Harmony Eight Methods). Modern Xinyi Ba contains very similar ideas to Tai Chi, Xing Yi, and Bagua, because the monks of Shaolin have had centuries to learn new things.

Always remember, the Shaolin loved to borrow ideas, which is why you can often find monks trained in a wide variety of things that don't tie back to Henan precisely.

If you watch some of the Xinyi Ba videos in the KFM thread you'll see sometimes it's a little Xing Yi ish, sometimes a little Tai Chi ish...sometimes very hard Shaolin.

 

[CMyers0323]

I believe Xingyiba is from Shaolin, Xingyiquan is not

About Xin Yi Ba | shaolintemple

www.shaolintemplekungfu.org

I see okay cool. So I would assume they follow the same 5 element concept but are different in some aspects. Probably like how some styles have their own take on the 5 elements?

 

[CMyers0323]

Xinyi ba is a specific lineage of Shaolin-based practices that incorporate a lot of Qigong and what the Neigong schools would classify as "internal" training. I know a little, but I'll ask some teachers more to get some insight.

It pops up now and then in kung fu circles, Gene Ching himself had some comments below.

Xinyiba

Hi! Can anyone tell me about Shaolin Xinyiba? To my knowledge, there is very little information available. Has anyone done it? Are there any tapes, books, videos? Thanks in advance!

www.kungfumagazine.com

That sounds really cool thanks yeah that would be appreciated. So it's not like Xing Yi Quan where you have the 5 element fists and such?

It took a while but I ended up stumbling across the XingYiBa page after posting this haha.

 

[CMyers0323]

I believe there is a relationship between the Shaolin Xinyi Ba lineage and Xing Yi, some intermixing between them and others, like Heart-Mind Six Harmonies Fist (Xin Yi Liu He), Liu He Ba Fa Fist (Six Harmony Eight Methods). Modern Xinyi Ba contains very similar ideas to Tai Chi, Xing Yi, and Bagua, because the monks of Shaolin have had centuries to learn new things.

Always remember, the Shaolin loved to borrow ideas, which is why you can often find monks trained in a wide variety of things that don't tie back to Henan precisely.

If you watch some of the Xinyi Ba videos in the KFM thread you'll see sometimes it's a little Xing Yi ish, sometimes a little Tai Chi ish...sometimes very hard Shaolin.

That would make sense. I figured since it has the term XingYi in it they should be some what related.

Oh wow that's cool. So it seems pretty in depth then. I wasn't able to find much on it from my original search. Well stuff that mentions the difference between Xing Yi and XingYiba that is.

Sounds very cool! Well come to think of it the guy who I posted earlier in this thread the monkey kung fu master. He apparent teaches a monkey form of XingYiBa or something with the two I haven't had the chance to really clear up how it all fits in

 

[CMyers0323]

A bit off topic I suppose but does anyone know where or how to train dragon body? I wouldn't be sure where to post it but I wouldn't be surprised if Xing Yi has this
I just found it again and can't seem to find actual training methods for it or more in detail info

 

[Oily Dragon]

That would make sense. I figured since it has the term XingYi in it they should be some what related.

They are actually not the same word.

Xing is form. Xing Yi means form-intent.

Xin is heart. So Xin Yi means heart-intent. And I believe the "Ba" at the end means 8, which is a shout-out to Baguaquan, or generally the 8 trigrams.

 

[Oily Dragon]

A bit off topic I suppose but does anyone know where or how to train dragon body? I wouldn't be sure where to post it but I wouldn't be surprised if Xing Yi has this
I just found it again and can't seem to find actual training methods for it or more in detail info

Dragon body? Post what you found and I can look. If this is iron body stuff then there are a few different styles.

 

[CMyers0323]

They are actually not the same word.

Xing is form. Xing Yi means form-intent.

Xin is heart. So Xin Yi means heart-intent. And I believe the "Ba" at the end means 8, which is a shout-out to Baguaquan, or generally the 8 trigrams.

Ahh okay I figured them Saying Xin instead of Xing was just their way of spelling it. Similar to how some spell Xing Yi differently. If I'm not wrong it's still the martial art but I've seen it also spelled Hsing Yi and such.

That's cool it's different then. I wonder if they also do 5 Element Fist or if that's not something in that art. Or how Wu Xing may fit into it if at all.

 

[CMyers0323]

Dragon body? Post what you found and I can look. If this is iron body stuff then there are a few different styles.

Yeah it's something I've occasionally heard about but recently saw I can't find the original article I was reading but this one seems to be pretty good at explaining it also.

Dragon Body – Shizendo Tai Chi

 

[Oily Dragon]

Yeah it's something I've occasionally heard about but recently saw I can't find the original article I was reading but this one seems to be pretty good at explaining it also.

Dragon Body – Shizendo Tai Chi

The article itself is kind of accurate with respect to some of the ideas, but the author is a bit of a quack. A 2 minute online check shows he's into a lot of conspiracy theorist stuff, and also has books out on biblical prosperity.

One video I watched, literally linked from a Tai Chi video, he juxtaposed images of COVID vaccination, Bill Gates, and Neo-feudalism. As in, all the doctors and computer guys are trying to impose a New World Order to destroy the middle class.

Beware kung fu masters who veer off the path like this, IMHO. They can seem a bit New Age, culty. When I watch people like this, I imagine a conversation I might have with them like "oh I just got my ___ vaccine" and get back "...what do you know about Neo-feudalism..."

Sorry, socio-economic population control conspiracy theories are out of scope for kung fu instruction.

As far as dragon, I'm going to put together a couple threads on Hung Ga 5 animal/5 elements stuff soon. Just so we can separate the discussion from Xing Yi. I'll try to get around to it this weekend. Southern Dragon is very rich in terms of material and is very applicable to wrestling in particular.

 

[CMyers0323]

The article itself is kind of accurate with respect to some of the ideas, but the author is a bit of a quack. A 2 minute online check shows he's into a lot of conspiracy theorist stuff, and also has books out on biblical prosperity.

One video I watched, literally linked from a Tai Chi video, he juxtaposed images of COVID vaccination, Bill Gates, and Neo-feudalism. As in, all the doctors and computer guys are trying to impose a New World Order to destroy the middle class.

Beware kung fu masters who veer off the path like this, IMHO. They can seem a bit New Age, culty. When I watch people like this, I imagine a conversation I might have with them like "oh I just got my ___ vaccine" and get back "...what do you know about Neo-feudalism..."

Sorry, socio-economic population control conspiracy theories are out of scope for kung fu instruction.

As far as dragon, I'm going to put together a couple threads on Hung Ga 5 animal/5 elements stuff soon. Just so we can separate the discussion from Xing Yi. I'll try to get around to it this weekend. Southern Dragon is very rich in terms of material and is very applicable to wrestling in particular.

That's good it's somewhat accurate from the brief search I did it seemed to be the most detailed. Oh wow I didn't even look into the author haha

Yeah i get what your saying with that. Thankfully I've been lucky to not be around masters like that

Yeah I agree with that I'm here for martial arts training nothing political or anything.

Sounds good! I'll look forward to it. The more I read it the more I thought it sounded like your moving your body in some sort of drunken boxing way or fluid water like Way. Although if there's actual training for it or something that's better than assuming what it may be. That did get me thinking if other animals or even elements have similar concepts

 

[dream]

Great topic. It’s long so I don’t know if that’s mentioned but we call hsing i “3 legged boxing” or “drag step” because the leg lags, purposefully . The qigong/neigong is immediately activated if properly taught with hsing i hence the qi being rooted in the drag. This is the source of the internal power. You are coiling in your bottom zone rather than reeling in your torso to juxtapose application theory. I love hsing I, it’s my favorite of my 3 treasures (well along with baguazhang, but hsing I is best for fighting of the 3 sooner than the rest whcih take much longer to use effectively)

 

[CMyers0323]

Great topic. It’s long so I don’t know if that’s mentioned but we call hsing i “3 legged boxing” or “drag step” because the leg lags, purposefully . The qigong/neigong is immediately activated if properly taught with hsing i hence the qi being rooted in the drag. This is the source of the internal power. You are coiling in your bottom zone rather than reeling in your torso to juxtapose application theory. I love hsing I, it’s my favorite of my 3 treasures (well along with baguazhang, but hsing I is best for fighting of the 3 sooner than the rest whcih take much longer to use effectively)

That's interesting! I think I've seen something similar in Winc Chun if I'm not mistaken.
That's cool how the Internal aspect comes into play with the footwork.

I agree I love the style as well bagua is another favorite haha.

 

[CMyers0323]

Anyone know what styles have Elemental techniques like Xing Yi does? I've been seeing a bit of the Hung Gars version of wood, Metal, water, Earth. However I haven't seen other styles that also have it but then again Hung Gars 5 Element techniques were something I had no idea existed till it was mentioned here

 

[Xue Sheng]

Anyone know what styles have Elemental techniques like Xing Yi does? I've been seeing a bit of the Hung Gars version of wood, Metal, water, Earth. However I haven't seen other styles that also have it but then again Hung Gars 5 Element techniques were something I had no idea existed till it was mentioned here

many refer to elements, even taijiquan, they just use them differently. Don't focus to much on understanding of the elements, the theory does not necessarily cross from style to style