Would you still consider a green belt a beginner?

[Hanzou]

I've never met a green belt that I would consider advanced. In Karate or TKD, you're a beginner until Black Belt IMO.

In Bjj I'd say you're a beginner until Purple, only because in that system, purple is instructor level.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Green belt??? I still consider myself a beginner...


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

 

[hussaf]

I'm wrong. Again. I was thinking about this last night. Believe it or not, I think about what everyone says here. I love Martial Arts, training in it, watching it, teaching it, talking about it, thinking about it. So I'm thinking last night....if you consider what a green belt knows, especially a seasoned one, comparing it to someone who's never trained...that can be quite a lot. Maybe even advanced. Or even a seasoned white belt could be put in that category. Then I thought about a seasoned black belt. And thought that might not be a fair comparison.

So, as I'm considering all of this my wife sees the look on my face and says, "What are you thinking about?" (warning to you single guys, beware of traps like this when the time comes) I tell her. She nods but doesn't say anything for a while. Then she starts laughing. I immediately respond, "Wha?"

She says, "You've been doing this a long time. The two main classes at night in all the dojos are what classes?" I say, "The beginners class and the regular class." She says, "And the regular class is called what on the schedule?" (the regular class is called the advanced class) She then says, "Every single green belt you've ever taught, every single one of them is in which class?" I quietly say, "The advanced class." She says, "and after a white belt has been in the school for a couple months, you know, once they're house broken, you throw them into which class?" I sheepishly say, "the advanced class."
She, says, "See, honey, when you want to know what you really think, all you have to do is ask."

So for the second time in as many days, I am at a loss for words.

wow. you seem to be getting really wrapped around the axle with this. Whatever you've decided to name your classes, advanced, intermediate, beginner, etc is really arbitrary. That logic would suggest you only have beginner and advanced students in your school, whereas it's most likely the majority of students fall somewhere in between.

If you really want to codify your students that much you should delineate a beginner-advanced for both yudansha and mudansha, separate from each other...starting over at "shodan," or black belt, as it loosely translates to "beginning student."

 

[PhotonGuy]

It depends on where you get the green belt and the order that its in with the rest of the belts but generally the green belt is used to mean intermediate. But its really all relative. Some high level instructors wear white belts to show the circular path of learning they've taken.

 

[Tames D]

A beginner has no business wearing a black belt.

 

[Buka]

wow. you seem to be getting really wrapped around the axle with this. Whatever you've decided to name your classes, advanced, intermediate, beginner, etc is really arbitrary. That logic would suggest you only have beginner and advanced students in your school, whereas it's most likely the majority of students fall somewhere in between.

If you really want to codify your students that much you should delineate a beginner-advanced for both yudansha and mudansha, separate from each other...starting over at "shodan," or black belt, as it loosely translates to "beginning student."

I don't know what "yudansha" or "mudansha" means. As for codifying, I don't want to codify anything. At least I don't think so. I don't really use that term.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I don't know what "yudansha" or "mudansha" means. As for codifying, I don't want to codify anything. At least I don't think so. I don't really use that term.

"Yudansha" would indicate the black belt ranks, "mudansha" would be the ranks below black belt.

 

[Buka]

"Yudansha" would indicate the black belt ranks, "mudansha" would be the ranks below black belt.

Ah. That's pretty much how I think of students in striking arts. In bjj, I think of whites and blues as guys I can roll with, and other belts as guys I pay for privates.

 

[PhotonGuy]

A beginner has no business wearing a black belt.

Yet lots of them do. And that's how you know if a MA school is any good, you observe a class and if the black belts are terrible than you know its a belt factory or a McDojo as they might call it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

A beginner has no business wearing a black belt.

Why not?

 

[Tames D]

Why not?

Is this a serious question?

 

[Jaeimseu]

Is this a serious question?

I think it may be a serious question, at least from a taekwondo perspective. I consider 1st dan black belt to be kind of a beginner rank, especially here in Korea where it can be earned in a year or a little less.

 

[donald1]

A black belt is still a beginner but more advanced

 

[drop bear]

Because I have a big mouth and like to talk. Besides, how can I answer if I'm a loss for words? It would come out muted.

(Okay, poor humor aside, please forgive it.) White belts, yellow belts, green belts, there's not a heck of a lot of difference. Might be to them, but that's because they're white belts, yellow belts and green belts. They're still in boot camp. You can take the most athletic person you know, have him/her train in a really good Martial Arts school for a couple years and you'll still have an athletic beginner. Don't take my word for it, find one of those people and if they're still training ten years from now ask them what they knew in 2014, ask them how good they were at anything in Martial Arts. See what they tell you.

I have some belts. My favorite is a white belt in BJJ. Been a white belt for a long time, I have a lot of experience as a white belt. And if you've never trained in a grappling art I'll probably tie you up in knots. But I'm still a white belt. I'm still in boot camp. And I still suck at BJJ. This Martial stuff takes time. White belts in anything don't know sheet from tuna fish. (of course, that means you're reading something from a guy that doesn't know sheet from tuna fish) No matter how talented they are in other things.

Geesh, I talk a lot for a guy who's at a loss for words. I think I'll go have a tuna sandwich. (I better be careful!)

Yeah but coloured belts in bjj are generally a pretty big deal. Can teach at purple? Which could maybe sorta be equivalent of a green.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Is this a serious question?

Yes, it is. I have black belts. I still consider myself a beginner. My Master considers himself a beginner. I don't see these as contradictory.

A martial artist isn't defined by the color of the fabric wrapped around their middle.

 

[Tames D]

Yes, it is. I have black belts. I still consider myself a beginner. My Master considers himself a beginner. I don't see these as contradictory.

A martial artist isn't defined by the color of the fabric wrapped around their middle.

You need to go back and re-read some of the threads on kids and black belts. They do seem to be defined by by the color of the fabric around their waist. And not necessarily in a good way.

And DD, I know it sounds humble to say you are still a beginner after all these years of training, but you really arn't. You should give yourself some credit. How long have you been driving a car? Are you still a beginner? Please don'r say yes, that would be scary.

 

[Tames D]

I think it may be a serious question, at least from a taekwondo perspective. I consider 1st dan black belt to be kind of a beginner rank, especially here in Korea where it can be earned in a year or a little less.

This is a big problem.

 

[Jaeimseu]

This is a big problem.

It's a matter of perception. If a 1st dan is a beginner, it's not too big a problem.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You need to go back and re-read some of the threads on kids and black belts. They do seem to be defined by by the color of the fabric around their waist. And not necessarily in a good way.

And DD, I know it sounds humble to say you are still a beginner after all these years of training, but you really arn't. You should give yourself some credit. How long have you been driving a car? Are you still a beginner? Please don'r say yes, that would be scary.

It's not a matter of humility. I know how much I know, and how much I don't know. And I know how completely unrelated to a belt color both those are.

 

[drop bear]

It's not a matter of humility. I know how much I know, and how much I don't know. And I know how completely unrelated to a belt color both those are.

As a beginner do you feel it would be appropriate to teach others?