Would you recommend Budo Taijutsu?

[tenzen]

Father started teaching me muay thai as soon as I started walking when I was 5 my mother started teaching me wing chun from wong sheung leung lineage and william cheung lineage. Around that same time I started danzan ryu jujutsu with my mothers dad. At the age of 8 I started training in ninjutsu. Not sure of my age at the time but my uncle was teaching me bjj he studied directly under royce. Around 12 I dabbled in aikido and hapkido. At 15 okinawan goju. Joined the military at 18 took up interest in military combatives eventually becoming a level3 instructor. Moved back to nc in 05 trained personally with ron and mike donvito. Also trained with sifu david chin in tibetan hop gar and guang ping yang tai chi. Moved to washington state in 07 started pradal serey and kbach kun boran khmer. At the same time I was learning atienza and sayoc kali. I still practice all I have learned never stopped. I also teach privately at my home do to earning instructor certifications in most of what I have practiced. Kind of developed my own thing also it doesnthave any special name because I only teach that to my family. I moved back to nc about a year ago by the way.

Unlike you I have experience with what I have been talking about. Not just something I read from a manual in pdf format. Given the experience you actually have I see why your thinking is the way it is though, it tends to favor what the military combatives program is geared towards. I can't fault you for that. But what I can say is that from what you have told us you have done a lot of talking and reading and have no real experience with it, aside from lines that is.

Its somewhat difficult to explain to you what I have been trying to tell you because you haven't experienced it. I have taught it and I know what its for and what it should not be used for. Unfortunately it is being used and passed off as the greatest thing known to man. Its not and in combat it will get you killed. You can say what you want from here but that's the facts. I think it is a great start to a decent program but the people in charge of creating that program don't understand that it needs to go deeper. I mean you got the confidence and agression part down pat. And weapons techniques are briefly covered, now what needs to take place is the addition of what will work and save your ***. Whether armored injured or fatigued. That part is missing because the mma they teach is extremely basic for one and for two it does not work under those conditions. Being you are practicing the bujinkan arts I would think you could see that.

Now instead of keeping this on going circle of it works it doesn't work going maybe it can die down. Because from here we are just saying the same things over and over. At least that's how I feel about it.

 

[tenzen]

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=rUoJ9RkaQnw

This is a video of sifu chris heintzman, sifu david chins top student demonstrating some of the same chopping types of strikes that I said would be a better choice to use because they are gross muscle movements, these types of strikes would be better in my opinion than what is currently taught due to their effectiveness. They can be applied wearing the full gear injured or fatigued. Here outside of ft bragg there are 2 places to learn this system they have classes allday long and are filled with real combat veterans who see their usefulness. This is the hop gar system. These strikes attack the limbs torso and head.

Not sure if your up on your chinese history but the number one guy from the ten tigers of canton was a hop gar guy. Everyone else was hung gar. This system was created solely to destroy your opponent, real fighting application not fancy form.

Hope this video helps you understand a small piece of what I meant about the chopping types of strikes as opposed to trying to box in full battle rattle.

 

[Kage-Ronin]

Okay I know you're Army so I will write in simple sentences so you can try to keep up.(j/k)

First off I never said in any one of my posts that MACP was the end all be all. What I said was is that it is better than what was offered a while back.

Now having said that, I know there's holes in it b/c there are holes in every type of H2H training. There is no end all, be all. Case in point, neither of the guys I rolled with had any kind of choke defense at all.

But....

Judo, Sambo, boxing, MT & BJJ can all be adopted for fighting outside of a ring with no modification b/c (here is the important part) they can be trained and applied against a fully resisting opponent in class ad nauseum. (Unlike the deadly eye gouge, throat punch, groin tear, etc. )

So if your guys are learning a good foundation and then they don't take it back and train it to where it is muscle memory, can be recalled when TSHTF, and going back and building on that foundation, then it's not the fault of the program is it?


BTW my Seabee buddy the combat vet? He used what he learned in MCMAP while deployed, and had great things to say about it.

I didn't click the link you provided b/c I am leery of malware and viruses, no offense. I have spent a fair amount of money on computer repair from that sort of thing. If you can embed a video, that'd be great.

I am not up on CMA history sorry.

 

[tenzen]

I completely understand about the malware and viruses can't blame you there. And yes I agree that those arts are effective outside of the sporting arena, but not in full body armor and gear. The equipment is too restricting. Can what they teach become muscle memory? Yes but only with years and years of training, which we both know doesn't happen for these guys. They also won't practice what they have learned once they are done learning it, wwell most of them won't. Therefore its not effective. The chopping types of strikes I was refering too that would be better are natural movements that don't need as much training.

I think all in all this has been a great debate/conversation. Thanks man I appreciate that.

 

[Kage-Ronin]

I completely understand about the malware and viruses can't blame you there. And yes I agree that those arts are effective outside of the sporting arena, but not in full body armor and gear. The equipment is too restricting. Can what they teach become muscle memory? Yes but only with years and years of training, which we both know doesn't happen for these guys. They also won't practice what they have learned once they are done learning it, wwell most of them won't. Therefore its not effective. The chopping types of strikes I was refering too that would be better are natural movements that don't need as much training.

I think all in all this has been a great debate/conversation. Thanks man I appreciate that.

So do you ever train combatives in full battle rattle so as to get the full effect?

Likewise. If your ever in or around Arkansas, drop me line and we can meet up for a beer, coffee or something.

 

[tenzen]

Yeah that sounds good man.
And yes I train in full gear some times. I train under lots of varying conditions. I tie up an arm sometimes to simulate not being able to use it. I train with hand cuffs on to limit movement that way both behind me and in front of my. I train with my legs bound. I work myself to the point of extreme exhaustion and then spar, both with and without full battle rattle. It keeps the training real because you never know the types of situations you might be in. So whatever my immagination can come up with were the odds are against me I train for it. Martial arts is my life.

I train my children and my wife the same way. Hell both my 2 year old and my 3 year old know how to punch kick knee elbow and headbutt. And my 3 year old already knows 3 chokes armlocks and leglocks. And they can both perform these techniques quite well. Their favorite outside toy is my heavy bag. The 2 year old likes kali a lot. And my 3 year old loves using the katana. Well not a real one she trains with a bokken but you know.

Anyway thanks again for the conversation.