Would Would Win between Ip Man and Bruce?
- Thread starter DavyKOTWF
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wckf92
Master of Arts
who?
D
Deleted member 34973
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Its true that I do not consider sport, as real martial arts. Why? Let me ask a question, was the Martial Arts designed for sport reasons? No, it was not, it was developed for life or death situations. That"s it, that is what its original intent is. Sure as the years went by, competition was developed to test the skills of warriors. But, nothing was changed for the safety of the competitors.
Fast forward to modern times: Throughout the 60's, a lot of things changed. One of the major changes, agreed upon by many system heads, was to move towards the direction of a competition aspect, over a direct self-defense aspect. Many early organizations went through these changes, commercialized and promoted competition. Entire styles were changed to suit this need. Techniques abandoned for safety reasons, no longer training in the combat aspect for fear that little Johnny might get hurt and sue. Thus was born Sport Martial Artist, trained in competition styles, fighting with competition rules. This had been the "nail in the coffin" for many actual Combat arts. Two arts emerged inside single systems, forms and then a weak form of kickboxing. Real martial arts, sacrificed for Sport martial arts. That's right, the people who are trashing the TMA in this day in age, are dogging on the Sport Competition art, not the real art. Talk about irony, sporters, bashing sporters
Fast forward to the 90's: The UFC and the birth of MMA, mixed martial arts, what can I say about these guys and their beginnings, without bashing. Most of these guys came from the arts that were already saturated with sport ideologies. Some had zero experience at all and just wanted to fight. So, they started mashing things together, but in the end...took the basics found in just about every art, and called it MMA.
Fellows, in real arts, there are punches, elbows, knees, take down and grappling techniques. This is what was given up for the promotion of sport arts between the 60's and 90's. Although knees and elbows were allowed in kickboxing matches, if the fighters agreed. No take downs, no throws. In tournaments, no contact to the face. Why, because some one made a decision based on the sport concept of what they were doing and trying to make money at (this is why even the UFC has a time limit on the ground, to long and the crowd gets bored). Entertainment, and money, is the sole motivation for competition (at least in today's world). Maybe it is not the motivation of the fighter, but for the sport, yes. Keep the money rolling in, even if you have to change. Hell, we see that today with unlimited styles being offered at various training facilities.
And, then we get to their endless need to bash other arts...why is this? Of course you train for ground fighting, but you do not stay there, ever. Of course you train elbows and knees, ....you also train shoulders, head, forearm, shins, etc...The new MMA'rs these people are the biggest hypocrites of all, Boxing(sport) Mauy tai(sport) BJJ (sport). They have been handed down techniques and methods of training designed for sport...made for a sport, defined and evolving by sport limitations. Explain how any of this best prepares you for a real world scenario. Other than being able to kick and punch some what effectively. Just about even, with a mid-level street fighter.
Explain how, people with no actual real world, glass in your back, skin peeled off on concrete, head slammed into the pavement, girlfriend high heeled kick to the head (thats right, its not his friends you need to worry about) 2x4, baseball bat crowbar, knife sticking effed up world, that is street fighting... can tell others that competition sports is the best training for actual real world self defense. If they themselves, have never experienced those things stated above. If the trainer has, you got yourself a real Instructor, count your blessings and keep training. You will know them by the trophies they carry on their skin. Not the ones on their walls nor the well known paper trail of champions.
Competition teaches you to respect your own and your opponents safety, period. It mentally programs you to think of another before yourself. Which isn't bad in itself for sport ...but just plain stupid in reality. There is no fairness in these situations, there is only survival. No one gives a damn about integrity, nobody gives a damn about rules. If you take the wrong person to the ground, you take the chance of getting killed, you take the chance of getting stabbed at the very least. And, if you have ever been in a real knife situation, you know that there is one definite guaranteed outcome, you will be cut. Your training, even in real combat arts, will not stop this reality from occurring. Accept that fact, you will be cut if you engage a fighter with a bladed weapon. Why do you think soldiers in the past wore armor.
You can test this yourself with a sharpe pen. Go to the ground and see how many times your opponent can mark you, before you submit him. If you are able to before he can mark you, great...do it again. Do it with your stand up game as well. Find a 10x10 ft room and throw some tacs in there and go and spar full out. Why tacks, because gravel feels the same freaking way, or better yet those old six pronged jacks. Hell go spar in the back alley, if you want reality.
To clarify:
Real Martial Arts- those specifically designed to protect you and those around you, from violence.
Sport Martial Arts-those designed for competition and entertainment.
I do consider those that focus training for competition, Sport Martial Artist...Not Real Martial Artist. That is what they train for, that is what they will become. But remember, resistance training, is the thin layer of knowledge, from the top of a 50 gallon drum filled with combat.
Now, with that said, I mean no insult and I enjoy watching sport myself. I trained in Kickboxing and competed in a few amateur bouts in the late 80's...but I knew that it was sport and didn't expect it to do me any good in a real life situation. I knew it was limited in its training for a full on street defense art....not just physically, but mentally as well. That knowledge came from my actual real world experiences before I ever stepped foot into a ring.
Someone stated that due to my statement, I probably have never even trained. I have trained, still do, 2-3 hours every day and train others. I have no problem with them training in other arts, as I feel its a great experience for any martial artist. I have no problem with them competing, that is their individual right. In the end, after training with another, in a sport combat art, they come home always. Sure they hear the same abusive spill from sport trainers, about how they are wasting time with so-called real combat arts, but they return and that is what counts.
....just my opinion based on personal experience.
Fast forward to modern times: Throughout the 60's, a lot of things changed. One of the major changes, agreed upon by many system heads, was to move towards the direction of a competition aspect, over a direct self-defense aspect. Many early organizations went through these changes, commercialized and promoted competition. Entire styles were changed to suit this need. Techniques abandoned for safety reasons, no longer training in the combat aspect for fear that little Johnny might get hurt and sue. Thus was born Sport Martial Artist, trained in competition styles, fighting with competition rules. This had been the "nail in the coffin" for many actual Combat arts. Two arts emerged inside single systems, forms and then a weak form of kickboxing. Real martial arts, sacrificed for Sport martial arts. That's right, the people who are trashing the TMA in this day in age, are dogging on the Sport Competition art, not the real art. Talk about irony, sporters, bashing sporters
Fast forward to the 90's: The UFC and the birth of MMA, mixed martial arts, what can I say about these guys and their beginnings, without bashing. Most of these guys came from the arts that were already saturated with sport ideologies. Some had zero experience at all and just wanted to fight. So, they started mashing things together, but in the end...took the basics found in just about every art, and called it MMA.
Fellows, in real arts, there are punches, elbows, knees, take down and grappling techniques. This is what was given up for the promotion of sport arts between the 60's and 90's. Although knees and elbows were allowed in kickboxing matches, if the fighters agreed. No take downs, no throws. In tournaments, no contact to the face. Why, because some one made a decision based on the sport concept of what they were doing and trying to make money at (this is why even the UFC has a time limit on the ground, to long and the crowd gets bored). Entertainment, and money, is the sole motivation for competition (at least in today's world). Maybe it is not the motivation of the fighter, but for the sport, yes. Keep the money rolling in, even if you have to change. Hell, we see that today with unlimited styles being offered at various training facilities.
And, then we get to their endless need to bash other arts...why is this? Of course you train for ground fighting, but you do not stay there, ever. Of course you train elbows and knees, ....you also train shoulders, head, forearm, shins, etc...The new MMA'rs these people are the biggest hypocrites of all, Boxing(sport) Mauy tai(sport) BJJ (sport). They have been handed down techniques and methods of training designed for sport...made for a sport, defined and evolving by sport limitations. Explain how any of this best prepares you for a real world scenario. Other than being able to kick and punch some what effectively. Just about even, with a mid-level street fighter.
Explain how, people with no actual real world, glass in your back, skin peeled off on concrete, head slammed into the pavement, girlfriend high heeled kick to the head (thats right, its not his friends you need to worry about) 2x4, baseball bat crowbar, knife sticking effed up world, that is street fighting... can tell others that competition sports is the best training for actual real world self defense. If they themselves, have never experienced those things stated above. If the trainer has, you got yourself a real Instructor, count your blessings and keep training. You will know them by the trophies they carry on their skin. Not the ones on their walls nor the well known paper trail of champions.
Competition teaches you to respect your own and your opponents safety, period. It mentally programs you to think of another before yourself. Which isn't bad in itself for sport ...but just plain stupid in reality. There is no fairness in these situations, there is only survival. No one gives a damn about integrity, nobody gives a damn about rules. If you take the wrong person to the ground, you take the chance of getting killed, you take the chance of getting stabbed at the very least. And, if you have ever been in a real knife situation, you know that there is one definite guaranteed outcome, you will be cut. Your training, even in real combat arts, will not stop this reality from occurring. Accept that fact, you will be cut if you engage a fighter with a bladed weapon. Why do you think soldiers in the past wore armor.
You can test this yourself with a sharpe pen. Go to the ground and see how many times your opponent can mark you, before you submit him. If you are able to before he can mark you, great...do it again. Do it with your stand up game as well. Find a 10x10 ft room and throw some tacs in there and go and spar full out. Why tacks, because gravel feels the same freaking way, or better yet those old six pronged jacks. Hell go spar in the back alley, if you want reality.
To clarify:
Real Martial Arts- those specifically designed to protect you and those around you, from violence.
Sport Martial Arts-those designed for competition and entertainment.
I do consider those that focus training for competition, Sport Martial Artist...Not Real Martial Artist. That is what they train for, that is what they will become. But remember, resistance training, is the thin layer of knowledge, from the top of a 50 gallon drum filled with combat.
Now, with that said, I mean no insult and I enjoy watching sport myself. I trained in Kickboxing and competed in a few amateur bouts in the late 80's...but I knew that it was sport and didn't expect it to do me any good in a real life situation. I knew it was limited in its training for a full on street defense art....not just physically, but mentally as well. That knowledge came from my actual real world experiences before I ever stepped foot into a ring.
Someone stated that due to my statement, I probably have never even trained. I have trained, still do, 2-3 hours every day and train others. I have no problem with them training in other arts, as I feel its a great experience for any martial artist. I have no problem with them competing, that is their individual right. In the end, after training with another, in a sport combat art, they come home always. Sure they hear the same abusive spill from sport trainers, about how they are wasting time with so-called real combat arts, but they return and that is what counts.
....just my opinion based on personal experience.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
By saying at the end that this is all just your opinion, are you acknowledging you just made most of this up?
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
Hanzou
Grandmaster
now disabled
Master Black Belt
Hanzou
Grandmaster
now disabled
Master Black Belt
Hanzou
Grandmaster
Are you implying that it was fake? The WC guy got beaten pretty badly.
now disabled
Master Black Belt
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I'm just trying to figure out if you're being serious or not. Because when you say things like,
that are factually incorrect and then write really long, self serving posts based on them, it's easy to see why you might want to excuse the entire thong as just an opinion.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
You didnt answer the question.
Martial D
Senior Master
now disabled
Master Black Belt
I did it a TV show .....jeez
......(the dots are to replace an expletive or actually a few )See real and I mean real challenge fights ...umm they don't have cameras about and ain't posted on you tube and there a reason for that ......................................they get in the crap ....and yes I have seen that kinda fighting and yes I know a few that do do that and I ain't talking fighting in the street ....so can we leave it please on that note
There's that glass again.
If glass is enough of a big problem for every single person who tries to describe street SD to mention it, why do people not have to have their car tyres repaired or replaced on a daily basis? Why am I not constantly picking glass out of my shoes? Why did my feet not get shredded to ribbons last week when I wandered around barefoot for a bit?
Pebbles are much more of an issue, but pebbles aren't sexy like the ubiquitous deadly shards of glass waiting to slice everyone up...
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I usually enjoy your brand of crazy, and to be sure, I'm not overly concerned about a typo here and there. That said, come on, man. Use some punctuation. English is your friend.
And I just mentioned "do do". If do do is in your sentence think of anither way to say it . lol
Regarding Guthrie I'm pretty sure he's trolling. People just aren't that crazy pants.
now disabled
Master Black Belt
Thanks to this, now when i read any of your posts, im going to imagine you cursing at your computer wherever there are dots
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