Worrying to much.

[AngryHobbit]

I didn't get that from his post, just that using only meds (which is what headhunter stated in his first post) isn't really a solution. And it's not. You need to do more, otherwise when you stop taking them, or when you get used to them, all the issues are just waiting for you.

That is true. In some cases, it's much like "Alice through the looking glass" - you have to run fast just to stay in one place and run even faster to get somewhere. In some cases - not just for mental illnesses but for a range of health issues - there is no quitting your meds. You have to keep taking them to keep going. It's not an addiction, it's not a bad habit - it's just one of those situations when what your body can do on its own is limited in addressing a specific problem.

I am sure you are familiar with a very popular brush off "You are just sad because you've been indoors for too long. You need to get out more. Get some running shoes." Of course, physical activity has been shown to be helpful for one's overall health. But it's not THE ultimate fix. The "get some running shoes and fix your depression" school of thought is dying out I think. As scientists learn more, they realize the cure lies in a balance of multiple treatments and activities. More work for the patient - but it is what it is.

 

[AngryHobbit]

Do you really need to start an argument over this? No one was shaming anyone. Pills have their uses and if they help people then great but there's more to it than popping pills. Now if you haven't got anything relevant to say on the post then move along I don't want to be reading through a big argument when I get home later.

Where do you see me starting an argument? I disagreed with the concept of separating the symptom from an illness. We are talking about anxiety, and I contributed to the discussion based on my own experience with an issue. Such issues are far from well researched and are bound to be controversial - for the very reason that there is no one perfect solution and no one inarguable reason to accept or dismiss something.

You are being rude by telling me what I can or cannot say. So, if you don't have anything polite to say - then move along. I don't want to be reading through something written by someone trying to bully me.

 

[AngryHobbit]

We all fall into that mental sand trap at times, it's the way the mind works. It only has two settings by itself, the past, and what's coming ahead. The mind tends to think about things gone by, about the way things were, good or bad. It spends the rest of it's time looking ahead, concerned, wondering about this or that, dreading, or just being impatient about something. The mind hates to be in the present, unless it's occupied, then it doesn't have time for it's preferred modus operandi.

It's a natural thing for the mind to do, with everyone, it's just a cat being a cat. It's a wonderful servant at times, but it's a terrible master.

As an aside - strange mental health doesn't run in my family, it fricken' gallops.

It doesn't run in my family either. It walks through slowly and deliberately, making a point to meet everyone and get to know them, then get their phone and address, and visit frequently.

 

[Dirty Dog]

A symptom and the problem can be the same. In fact, mental illness is an excellent example of this - which is what makes it so complex and challenging to diagnose. Your basic, vanilla depression can be a symptom of any (but not all) of the following: bad reaction to a major change in life (including positive change), long-lasting reaction to a trauma (physical or emotional), a digestive or circulatory problem, or a chemical imbalance in the central nervous system. Identifying, which one it is, begins with treating the symptom. And that involves "throwing pills" at times - which very much constitutes addressing the real problem. The hardest part, of course, it might not be the first diagnosis, or the second, or even the fifth or the sixth before the core issue is discovered. But, in the meantime, addressing the symptom can help the patient cope.

And, again, your reply has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said. Bye Bye. I don't have time to waste on strawman arguments.

 

[Headhunter]

.

 

[Headhunter]

Where do you see me starting an argument? I disagreed with the concept of separating the symptom from an illness. We are talking about anxiety, and I contributed to the discussion based on my own experience with an issue. Such issues are far from well researched and are bound to be controversial - for the very reason that there is no one perfect solution and no one inarguable reason to accept or dismiss something.

You are being rude by telling me what I can or cannot say. So, if you don't have anything polite to say - then move along. I don't want to be reading through something written by someone trying to bully me.

How am I bullying you I said I don't want an argument on here that's it. You know what I don't care. if you think that was bullying I apologise but I definentely was not bullying

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Where do you see me starting an argument? I disagreed with the concept of separating the symptom from an illness. We are talking about anxiety, and I contributed to the discussion based on my own experience with an issue. Such issues are far from well researched and are bound to be controversial - for the very reason that there is no one perfect solution and no one inarguable reason to accept or dismiss something.

You are being rude by telling me what I can or cannot say. So, if you don't have anything polite to say - then move along. I don't want to be reading through something written by someone trying to bully me.

There's no bullying going on here - just a disagreement over expression, from what I can see.

 

[Anarax]

The problem with using meds for this sort of thing is that they only mask symptoms. Not the problem. Treating the problem requires a good therapist and a lot of hard work. But because we live in a world where people expect instant solutions, most are not willing to do this. They just want a pill to fix it. Right now. And of course, all the meds used to mask the symptoms are highly addictive.
It always seems to me that this approach is analogous to saying "Awww.... you broke your arm. Here's some narcotics." And then not bothering to fix the arm.

It depends on the extent of the anxiety and the individual. Before saying what works best for who we should take a step back and look at it 3 dimensionally. There are varying degrees of anxiety, some so severe they can't even leave their own home, others just simply avoid large crowds. Not all patients who request or are prescribed medication by a licensed mental health expert are simply looking for an easy fix. Mental health is a very complicated issue, thus requires a high level of education. There are different approaches to mental health and each approach has varying degrees of success. The approach that worked for one patient won't necessarily work for another. The simple reality is some people need medication to function in society.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It depends on the extent of the anxiety and the individual. Before saying what works best for who we should take a step back and look at it 3 dimensionally. There are varying degrees of anxiety, some so severe they can't even leave their own home, others just simply avoid large crowds. Not all patients who request or are prescribed medication by a licensed mental health expert are simply looking for an easy fix. Mental health is a very complicated issue, thus requires a high level of education. There are different approaches to mental health and each approach has varying degrees of success. The approach that worked for one patient won't necessarily work for another. The simple reality is some people need medication to function in society.

Some research has found chemical imbalances (not technically what they are, but conceptually accurate). To date, there is limited (if any) success in those areas without medication. That is one population where a chemical fix, while imperfect, is currently the best answer. Gene therapy may be the next step there.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Some research has found chemical imbalances (not technically what they are, but conceptually accurate). To date, there is limited (if any) success in those areas without medication. That is one population where a chemical fix, while imperfect, is currently the best answer. Gene therapy may be the next step there.

This actually isn't entirely true. For instance, in depression there's always that 'chemical imbalance'. There have been studies showing that CBT (and possibly other psychotherapy, I'd have to find the studies) will actually make the brain more 'normal'. So even then medocation isn't necessarily necessary (although it can certainly help).

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Some research has found chemical imbalances (not technically what they are, but conceptually accurate). To date, there is limited (if any) success in those areas without medication. That is one population where a chemical fix, while imperfect, is currently the best answer. Gene therapy may be the next step there.

I also recall one of my old professors showing us a group of studies on anxiety, and that only providing medication results in a long term (5+ years I'm guessing but not 100%) increase in anxiety. The cauae proposed by the study was a combination of recidivism of the medication, except now the patients have forgotten their old coping mechanisms/skills, or addiction to the medication, which would increase anxiety. What worked was either therapy alone or therapy and medication. I also believe (again don't quote me on this part) that which worked better depended on severity; for severe anxiety it was therapy and medication, for mild anxiety it was therapy.

I'll email him so I can see if I can get a hold of the studies to verify this.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This actually isn't entirely true. For instance, in depression there's always that 'chemical imbalance'. There have been studies showing that CBT (and possibly other psychotherapy, I'd have to find the studies) will actually make the brain more 'normal'. So even then medocation isn't necessarily necessary (although it can certainly help).

Unless I've missed some recent (last decade-ish) research, there is a population where the levels aren't correctable with therapy (I'm thinking among bipolar, for instance). I don't keep up as well as I used to, so I may be underinformed.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I also recall one of my old professors showing us a group of studies on anxiety, and that only providing medication results in a long term (5+ years I'm guessing but not 100%) increase in anxiety. The cauae proposed by the study was a combination of recidivism of the medication, except now the patients have forgotten their old coping mechanisms/skills, or addiction to the medication, which would increase anxiety. What worked was either therapy alone or therapy and medication. I also believe (again don't quote me on this part) that which worked better depended on severity; for severe anxiety it was therapy and medication, for mild anxiety it was therapy.

I'll email him so I can see if I can get a hold of the studies to verify this.

With anxiety, I can believe this. And I seem to recall reading about the improved efficacy of therapy in severe cases (both anxiety and depression, IIRC) when paired with medication. I think the studies I'm referring to were looking at the initial efficacy, and didn't examine long-term outcome.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Unless I've missed some recent (last decade-ish) research, there is a population where the levels aren't correctable with therapy (I'm thinking among bipolar, for instance). I don't keep up as well as I used to, so I may be underinformed.

Yup, certain disorders you need medication. Bipolar is one, same with basically any schizoeffective disorder. But just because there's neural issues doesn't mean meds are necessary 100% of the time

 

[AngryHobbit]

I've always been a guy who over thinks stuff always have been but lately it's been getting ridiculous. For example today at work I did something that's not bad or wrong but Im worrying that someone will complain about making that thing sound worse than what I did...I mean I know it's stupid and I know theres absoloutely no reason to be thinking this at all and it's driving me nuts.

I know it's probably related to the other issues I've had and I know the best thing is to go to doctors for it but I'm not a fan of dosing myself up on meds plus I've had issues with addiction in the past and would rather not risk going down that path again.

I wish I could relate better to your type of anxiety - it sounds almost... structured? You know - like a story that unfolds in your head to get you to the worst-case scenario. My brand of anxiety is more like a spontaneous triggering of the "fight or flight" instinct - very inconvenient and can be hard to manage.

I do wonder though whether one of the two things might help - might be worth looking to see if there is some research on that. One, as you worry about what might happen and you get to what you think the result might be, push the story further, amplify it until it gets so ridiculous you have to laugh. For example, "If I don't finish this presentation on time, I'll look like a total idiot in the meeting tomorrow morning, I'll get fired because my boss will be mad at me, I'll run out of money and almost starve, and then I'll be forced to hack into the SERN database, steal a bunch of explosives, sneak into the great particle collider, and hold it hostage until someone gives me my job back, or else I'll blow up the whole thing and open up a black hole to the center of Earth, and some aliens will make a bad movie about it, and it will end up on their version of Mystery Science Theater 3000."

Another possibility is - after finishing the worst-case scenario, running it again but replacing every plot point with what would be the best thing to happen to you, no matter how crazy or silly. Maybe even write it down. Read it out loud to yourself. I was just thinking - since you are already at the point of imagining what might happen, why waste the creative energy? Pump it for all its worth. Director Guillermo Del Toro ("Pan's Labyrinth", "Hellboy", "The orphanage", etc.) talked about this in an interview once. He used to hate his childhood memories and scary dreams because they were often filled with creepy crawly things and strange spooky places - until he decided he might as well milk them for ideas.

 

[Headhunter]

Honestly it's strange because now I'm totally the worry is still there but not bothering me like I know what I'm worrying about but I don't care about it now

 

[Tames D]

For example today at work I did something that's not bad or wrong but Im worrying that someone will complain about making that thing sound worse than what I did...

So what did you do?

 

[Anarax]

I also recall one of my old professors showing us a group of studies on anxiety, and that only providing medication results in a long term (5+ years I'm guessing but not 100%) increase in anxiety. The cauae proposed by the study was a combination of recidivism of the medication, except now the patients have forgotten their old coping mechanisms/skills, or addiction to the medication, which would increase anxiety. What worked was either therapy alone or therapy and medication. I also believe (again don't quote me on this part) that which worked better depended on severity; for severe anxiety it was therapy and medication, for mild anxiety it was therapy.

I'll email him so I can see if I can get a hold of the studies to verify this.

Are there any peer reviewed articles that support this?

 

[jobo]

Absoloutely that's why I don't want to bother with pills. I don't want to be relying on pills to make me feel happy. Anyway whatever I know im being dumb and my worry probably pass by tomorrow

its rather where you are starting from, you have had a major trauma in your life, its hard to get your brain to accept that another dreadful out of the blue even won't happen in the next 5mins, 5 hours , 5 days. People saying what ever you are worrying about itnt rational, doesn't help.abd when it, what ever it is, doesn't happen, you will just worry about something else instead, it a circle that is very difficult to get out of

pills won't make physical problems go away, if you are worrying over bills, then you still have no money even if you take a few pills, but when you are panicking over " nothing" tangible, then pills are very much a good and useful tool.

a lot of people use mood enhancers of one form or another, alcohol, nicotine, chocolate, pills are no different, except you are using them for a short period under medical supervision and they won't wreck your liver,,give you cancer or make you fat, they can however help you break the,cycle