Workouts to improve upper body strength?

[jobo]

I don't think anyone discounted the efficacy of deadlifts. It's his demeanor and his matter of factness that needs to be checked, along with his absolute claims, kind of like if you don't/can't deadlift at least 2x your body weight, you're weak. Nonsense.

And his take a single line someone says, coming to some delusional conclusion about what you said, and proving you wrong (in his own world) about it.

Deadlifts are a fantastic exercise. They're not the be all, end all measure of strength our friend makes them out to be. IMO the snatch and clean and jerk are far better assessor of strength.

your mis quoting me again, I haven't said anywhere an inability to lift 2x body weight makes you weak,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

jr 37 is just the forum bully, it doesn't matter what i say, he follows me from thread to thread not discussing what i say, but rather making personal attacks.

Ah, yes. He's the one who breaks out the personal attacks. Of course.

 

[wingchun100]

So I wonder what @kempodisciple thought of the videos I shared to illustrate the pull-up replacement exercise.

 

[jobo]

Deadlift alone is not a full workout, and I've already pointed out that my knees limit the weight to less than my maximum.

I've seen much the same excuse chain from other, mostly middle aged ,men. In that my knees/ back or what ever won't support this exercise. Which is reasonable logic, apart from the fact that starting at a low weight and building up would much improve the strength and therefore the health of your knees.

you may or may not get to a certain level, but in trying you would a) have greater lower body strengh than you do now and b) knees in a much more functional state

10 mins every other day, though not optimal, is sufficient to complete a full body work out over a week and make strengh gains, if you go for compound exercises

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've seen much the same excuse chain from other, mostly middle aged ,men. In that my knees/ back or what ever won't support this exercise. Which is reasonable logic, apart from the fact that starting at a low weight and building up would much improve the strength and therefore the health of your knees.

you may or may not get to a certain level, but in trying you would a) have greater lower body strengh than you do now and b) knees in a much more functional state

10 mins every other day, though not optimal, is sufficient to complete a full body work out over a week and make strengh gains, if you go for compound exercises

The knees aren't weak. They are arthritic. They twinge walking on stairs, though I can still squat a significant amount - I just pay dearly for it the next day if I do. So, not an excuse, a reason to avoid activities that make it worse.

You're making assumptions again.

 

[jobo]

The knees aren't weak. They are arthritic. They twinge walking on stairs, though I can still squat a significant amount - I just pay dearly for it the next day if I do. So, not an excuse, a reason to avoid activities that make it worse.

You're making assumptions again.

and even that condition would be much improved or at least slowed down by flexing them and strengthening the surrounding tissue. By not working them the regression of your movement will just get worse and worse You may have to endure a little discomfort, but the pay off of having ( more)functioning knees will be well worth it

the answer to the majority of joint problems to move it and build up the connective tissue

 

[Tez3]

I've dug this up, it may be of interest. Posters on here include a kick boxing world champion, 2 UFC fighters, MMA coaches, pro fighters and fitness trainers.
The Negatives of Conventional Weight Training

 

[jobo]

I've dug this up, it may be of interest. Posters on here include a kick boxing world champion, 2 UFC fighters, MMA coaches, pro fighters and fitness trainers.
The Negatives of Conventional Weight Training

I'm sure that would be very interesting, but both of the linked articles are coming up as unavailable.

if I hazard a guess at the content, the issues with weight training are bad form which damages rather than strenghens a joint/ muscle mixed with trying to lift to much to soon.which is generaly why they have bad form, a bit of a vicious circle

if you can find an actual link,bid be interested to know if they agree,

 

[Tez3]

Not sure why the articles aren't coming up, however I think the points raised by the posters are more interesting.

 

[jobo]

Not sure why the articles aren't coming up, however I think the points raised by the posters are more interesting.

possible because they are from 2009and have been taken down and replaced by something else.

Il have a read later, but its difficult to know if I agree or not, when its not clear what part of the article they are taking issue / agreeing with

 

[Gerry Seymour]

and even that condition would be much improved or at least slowed down by flexing them and strengthening the surrounding tissue. By not working them the regression of your movement will just get worse and worse You may have to endure a little discomfort, but the pay off of having ( more)functioning knees will be well worth it

the answer to the majority of joint problems to move it and build up the connective tissue

Again, you're making a baseless assumption and asserting it as a fact about what I do. I do work them. But this is like the previous incidence where you dogmatically insist there's a one-size-fits-all solution. Exercises like deadlifts won't have nearly as much effect on the rest of my body, because my knees limit what I can reasonably bear. So I use different exercises. You know, I adjust to strengthen what needs strengthening, without letting it unnecessarily limit other areas of development.

As for the "little discomfort", that's another assumption. Some days, it means Aleve is just enough to let me walk without a limp...if I use a cane.

 

[Tez3]

possible because they are from 2009and have been taken down and replaced by something else.

Il have a read later, but its difficult to know if I agree or not, when its not clear what part of the article they are taking issue / agreeing with

Actually they don't talk much about the articles more about their personal training.

 

[jobo]

Again, you're making a baseless assumption and asserting it as a fact about what I do. I do work them. But this is like the previous incidence where you dogmatically insist there's a one-size-fits-all solution. Exercises like deadlifts won't have nearly as much effect on the rest of my body, because my knees limit what I can reasonably bear. So I use different exercises. You know, I adjust to strengthen what needs strengthening, without letting it unnecessarily limit other areas of development.

As for the "little discomfort", that's another assumption. Some days, it means Aleve is just enough to let me walk without a limp...if I use a cane.

but this is the silly work round solution thing that started this debate. You strength in functional movement is now limited by your knees
. It doesn't matter what you do to develop the other parts of your body as your knees will always be your weak link. In fact by training other parts and ignoring your knees you causing postural imbalance's which may well make your condition worse.

that is the practice problem you face. The ONLY solution is to improve the strengh / durability of your weakest part.
that not one size fits all, that the actual facts of the matter

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but this is the silly work round solution thing that started this debate. You strength in functional movement is now limited by your knees
. It doesn't matter what you do to develop the other parts of your body as your knees will always be your weak link. In fact by training other parts and ignoring your knees you causing postural imbalance's which may well make your condition worse.

that is the practice problem you face. The ONLY solution is to improve the strengh / durability of your weakest part.
that not one size fits all, that the actual facts of the matter

There you go again. Didn't I just say I don't ignore my knees. There are exercises that I can do that don't bother them so much, and I do those. Doing things that cause pain IS NOT a safe way to develop. You remember calling my approach dogmatic and one-size-fits all? Did you notice that you're dogmatically insisting that this particular exercise is right for everyone - even if it causes pain?

And arthritis is not muscular weakness. Strengthening support muscles and using the joint will mitigate it, but it does change what the joint is capable of, as well as changing what is a good idea for a joint. Walk on my knees the day after I over-use them - when I won't be able to do any significant exercise for a few days - then tell me that's really the best approach.

You put forth as if you have actual knowledge, then seem to ignore the most basic information, including what people tell you about what they are doing.

 

[jobo]

There you go again. Didn't I just say I don't ignore my knees. There are exercises that I can do that don't bother them so much, and I do those. Doing things that cause pain IS NOT a safe way to develop. You remember calling my approach dogmatic and one-size-fits all? Did you notice that you're dogmatically insisting that this particular exercise is right for everyone - even if it causes pain?

And arthritis is not muscular weakness. Strengthening support muscles and using the joint will mitigate it, but it does change what the joint is capable of, as well as changing what is a good idea for a joint. Walk on my knees the day after I over-use them - when I won't be able to do any significant exercise for a few days - then tell me that's really the best approach.

You put forth as if you have actual knowledge, then seem to ignore the most basic information, including what people tell you about what they are doing.

but if you are not loading your knees up, you are ignoring the strength of the connective tissue. Just doing an easy exercise is a work round, that will not redress your weakness.
I am having trouble with how you can state you can't walk up stairs with out pain let alone do a light dead lift and you not accepting that you have a significant weakness

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but if you are not loading your knees up, you are ignoring the strength of the connective tissue. Just doing an easy exercise is a work round, that will not redress your weakness.
I am having trouble with how you can state you can't walk up stairs with out pain let alone do a light dead lift and you not accepting that you have a significant weakness

Pain deep in a joint does not equal muscle weakness. If you don't get that, I can't help you.

 

[jobo]

Pain deep in a joint does not equal muscle weakness. If you don't get that, I can't help you.

well sort of, you you don't load your knees up because of the pain, your muscles will waste and weakness will follow. The more you don't load it the weaker you will be come, until the point where you have trouble supporting your own weight. Which by your description is not very far away

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well sort of, you you don't load your knees up because of the pain, your muscles will waste and weakness will follow. The more you don't load it the weaker you will be come, until the point where you have trouble supporting your own weight. Which by your description is not very far away

Oy. You just don't listen, do you? I guess we're done here. Again.

 

[JR 137]

your mis quoting me again, I haven't said anywhere an inability to lift 2x body weight makes you weak,

Which leads me to

I would go as far as saying if you cant lift two times body weight in your case 240 lbs, you don't count as reasonably strong, if you cant lift you body weight x one, then you are officially weak

And

two, three even four times body weight is quite achievable for a fit strong healthy person .so yes you probably could if you worked up to it

I would go as far as saying if you cant lift two times body weight in your case 240 lbs, you don't count as reasonably strong, if you cant lift you body weight x one, then you are officially weak

nb knock a bit off coz your a girl, call it 100 and 200 respectively

Perhaps I misread "body weight x one" as body weight x one more of your body weight rather than body weight for 1 rep.

But everything else I quoted still contradicts the first quote. All your words, not mine, so how am I misquoting?

 

[jobo]

Which leads me to



And



Perhaps I misread "body weight x one" as body weight x one more of your body weight rather than body weight for 1 rep.

But everything else I quoted still contradicts the first quote. All your words, not mine, so how am I misquoting?

I've no idea what your trying to convey, I said a failure to lift body weight x one meant you were weak. You claimed I said body weight x two equaled being weak.

that's miss quoting me