Winning a street fight with Kajukenbo

[NubreedKaliSilat]

Winning A Streetfight with Kajukenbo
by Bob Maschmeier

According to Maschmeier, there are several tactics that kajukenbo teaches in order for the martial artist to win on the streets.
ANYTHING GOES: The first thing to remember is to to do anything it takes to win. Even if you have to bite, scratch, and kick, there are no rules. You have to fight like an animal if necessary. The old phrase in the martial arts is "be humble," but be humble only to a point. Be a person because you choose to be, not because you're intimidated.
FIGHT FAST, FIGHT HARD: If you find yourself in a position where you have no other choise but to fight, do it fast and get it over with.
DON'T BE STUPID: Remember that a good streetfighter is as good as, or better, than a black belt in a street situation. Some of the streetfighters go out and fight every Friday night. They know how to take a punch. They know how to use a beer bottle. They know how to use a lot of things and they move like a cat when they fight.
STRIKE WHILE HE ARGUES WITH YOU: If you can hit your opponent while he's in the middle of a sentence or a word, you have the element of surprise. He can't think of two things at the same time.
SPIT IN HIS FACE AT THE EXACT MOMENT YOU STRIKE: Normally, a grown man will flinch because he doesn't like the idea of someone spitting in his face.
USE UNEXPECTED DIVERSIONS AND DISTRACTIONS: An older person can fake a heart attack long enough for the opponent to hesitate and be caught off guard by a couterattack. Surprise is always an advantage.
ATTACK THE MOST VULNERABLE TARGETS: Kajukenbo emphasizes attacking the most vulnerable targets including the eyes, the throat, the groin and the knees.
DON'T STOP UNTIL THE PERSON IS FINISHED: One or two moves may or may not be enough to take a person out. The kajukenbo strategy is to stike or kick a person, get him down to the ground, and then continue until he stops.

According to Maschmeier, there are several tactics that kajukenbo teaches in order for the martial artist to win on the streets.
ANYTHING GOES: The first thing to remember is to to do anything it takes to win. Even if you have to bite, scratch, and kick, there are no rules. You have to fight like an animal if necessary. The old phrase in the martial arts is "be humble," but be humble only to a point. Be a person because you choose to be, not because you're intimidated.
FIGHT FAST, FIGHT HARD: If you find yourself in a position where you have no other choise but to fight, do it fast and get it over with.
DON'T BE STUPID: Remember that a good streetfighter is as good as, or better, than a black belt in a street situation. Some of the streetfighters go out and fight every Friday night. They know how to take a punch. They know how to use a beer bottle. They know how to use a lot of things and they move like a cat when they fight.
STRIKE WHILE HE ARGUES WITH YOU: If you can hit your opponent while he's in the middle of a sentence or a word, you have the element of surprise. He can't think of two things at the same time.
SPIT IN HIS FACE AT THE EXACT MOMENT YOU STRIKE: Normally, a grown man will flinch because he doesn't like the idea of someone spitting in his face.
USE UNEXPECTED DIVERSIONS AND DISTRACTIONS: An older person can fake a heart attack long enough for the opponent to hesitate and be caught off guard by a couterattack. Surprise is always an advantage.
ATTACK THE MOST VULNERABLE TARGETS: Kajukenbo emphasizes attacking the most vulnerable targets including the eyes, the throat, the groin and the knees.
DON'T STOP UNTIL THE PERSON IS FINISHED: One or two moves may or may not be enough to take a person out. The kajukenbo strategy is to stike or kick a person, get him down to the ground, and then continue until he stops​

 

[Doc_Jude]

I like it!!! Sounds like I'd like to train Kajukenbo...

 

[Tames D]

Sounds alot like Kung Fu San Soo.

 

[Empty Hands]

STRIKE WHILE HE ARGUES WITH YOU: If you can hit your opponent while he's in the middle of a sentence or a word, you have the element of surprise. He can't think of two things at the same time.

After the fight: ENJOY PRISON.
​

 

[kidswarrior]

Sounds alot like Kung Fu San Soo.

Yeah, it does. There is the concern Empty Hands expressed, tho, and which I think we San Soo-ers and maybe others need to take into account in this new century, of the legal aspects of the old ways. jmho.

 

[Drac]

After the fight: ENJOY PRISON.​

Yep, or be able to justify WHY you beat someone when they were down..Maybe you and Bob Maschmeier can be cellys...

 

[John Bishop]

Well, I can't speak for other states, but in California your right to self defense does not have to be in response to a physical attack.
If someone becomes aggressive in speech or mannerisms to the point that you feel the imminent threat of a physical attack, you have the right to physically respond first.
Whether you beat someone while they are standing up or laying down, doesn't matter, as long as they are still posing a physical threat.

 

[krieger]

Well, very interesting...

In Oregon and Washington, the difference between self defence and offence is an open or closed hand. If it's open, it's self defence, but if it;s closed, a.ka. a fist, then it's offence.

But you shouldn't be finding reasons to fight anyway. That's not what martial arts are for...

 

[punisher73]

Well, I can't speak for other states, but in California your right to self defense does not have to be in response to a physical attack.
If someone becomes aggressive in speech or mannerisms to the point that you feel the imminent threat of a physical attack, you have the right to physically respond first.
Whether you beat someone while they are standing up or laying down, doesn't matter, as long as they are still posing a physical threat.
__________________

In Michigan it is the same way. Our prosecutor looks at the assualt during the verbal exchange, NOT who threw the first punch. If you are arguing and try to walk away (fulfills MI's Duty to Retreat to claim self-defense) and the other person doesn't let you and you feel you are in threat of physical harm you can strike first, BUT be prepared to articulate those reasons.

There is a fine LEGAL line between "first strike" and "sucker punch" and you better know the laws of your state, and more importantly how your local Prosecutor interprets those laws. Also, most police will probably arrest both parties for "disorderly by fighting" or a similiar local ordinance and let the courts decide who was at fault.

 

[Blindside]

Well, very interesting...
In Oregon and Washington, the difference between self defence and offence is an open or closed hand. If it's open, it's self defence, but if it;s closed, a.ka. a fist, then it's offence.

Pulled from the Revised Code of Washington:

With regard to defense:

9A.16.020
Use of force — When lawful.
The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:
.....
(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;


9A.16.050
Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.
</SPAN>

You'll notice no mention of open or closed hands.

"Offense" is defined in terms of Assault, which are defined by levels off accomplished or intended harm. But if you accomplish extreme harm by "open" hands you are still going to be charged with the harsher levels of assault. Regardless it is still "assault" it isn't "self-defense" just because you have an open hand or closed hand.

Is there case law that clarifies the difference that doesn't show up in the RCW?

Lamont

 

[Todd Reiner]

Winning A Streetfight with Kajukenbo
by Bob Maschmeier

According to Maschmeier, there are several tactics that kajukenbo teaches in order for the martial artist to win on the streets.
ANYTHING GOES: The first thing to remember is to to do anything it takes to win. Even if you have to bite, scratch, and kick, there are no rules. You have to fight like an animal if necessary. The old phrase in the martial arts is "be humble," but be humble only to a point. Be a person because you choose to be, not because you're intimidated.
FIGHT FAST, FIGHT HARD: If you find yourself in a position where you have no other choise but to fight, do it fast and get it over with.
DON'T BE STUPID: Remember that a good streetfighter is as good as, or better, than a black belt in a street situation. Some of the streetfighters go out and fight every Friday night. They know how to take a punch. They know how to use a beer bottle. They know how to use a lot of things and they move like a cat when they fight.
STRIKE WHILE HE ARGUES WITH YOU: If you can hit your opponent while he's in the middle of a sentence or a word, you have the element of surprise. He can't think of two things at the same time.
SPIT IN HIS FACE AT THE EXACT MOMENT YOU STRIKE: Normally, a grown man will flinch because he doesn't like the idea of someone spitting in his face.
USE UNEXPECTED DIVERSIONS AND DISTRACTIONS: An older person can fake a heart attack long enough for the opponent to hesitate and be caught off guard by a couterattack. Surprise is always an advantage.
ATTACK THE MOST VULNERABLE TARGETS: Kajukenbo emphasizes attacking the most vulnerable targets including the eyes, the throat, the groin and the knees.
DON'T STOP UNTIL THE PERSON IS FINISHED: One or two moves may or may not be enough to take a person out. The kajukenbo strategy is to stike or kick a person, get him down to the ground, and then continue until he stops.​

According to Maschmeier, there are several tactics that kajukenbo teaches in order for the martial artist to win on the streets.
ANYTHING GOES: The first thing to remember is to to do anything it takes to win. Even if you have to bite, scratch, and kick, there are no rules. You have to fight like an animal if necessary. The old phrase in the martial arts is "be humble," but be humble only to a point. Be a person because you choose to be, not because you're intimidated.
FIGHT FAST, FIGHT HARD: If you find yourself in a position where you have no other choise but to fight, do it fast and get it over with.
DON'T BE STUPID: Remember that a good streetfighter is as good as, or better, than a black belt in a street situation. Some of the streetfighters go out and fight every Friday night. They know how to take a punch. They know how to use a beer bottle. They know how to use a lot of things and they move like a cat when they fight.
STRIKE WHILE HE ARGUES WITH YOU: If you can hit your opponent while he's in the middle of a sentence or a word, you have the element of surprise. He can't think of two things at the same time.
SPIT IN HIS FACE AT THE EXACT MOMENT YOU STRIKE: Normally, a grown man will flinch because he doesn't like the idea of someone spitting in his face.
USE UNEXPECTED DIVERSIONS AND DISTRACTIONS: An older person can fake a heart attack long enough for the opponent to hesitate and be caught off guard by a couterattack. Surprise is always an advantage.
ATTACK THE MOST VULNERABLE TARGETS: Kajukenbo emphasizes attacking the most vulnerable targets including the eyes, the throat, the groin and the knees.​

DON'T STOP UNTIL THE PERSON IS FINISHED: One or two moves may or may not be enough to take a person out. The kajukenbo strategy is to stike or kick a person, get him down to the ground, and then continue until he stops​

I've read this once before and enjoyed reading it again. Thank You.

 

[kidswarrior]

be prepared to articulate those reasons.

There is a fine LEGAL line between "first strike" and "sucker punch" and you better know the laws of your state, and more importantly how your local Prosecutor interprets those laws. Also, most police will probably arrest both parties for "disorderly by fighting" or a similiar local ordinance and let the courts decide who was at fault.

Good point. I think it's hard to state definitively what every local police officer, detective or DDA in a state will do every time with a self-defense/assault case that lands in their lap. Instead, seems pretty likely the response will be a little more idiosyncratic.

 

[jks9199]

Good point. I think it's hard to state definitively what every local police officer, detective or DDA in a state will do every time with a self-defense/assault case that lands in their lap. Instead, seems pretty likely the response will be a little more idiosyncratic.

"Offensive" defense generally requires that you be able to articulate why you believed that you were in imminent danger of being assaulted. You must be able to articulate what made you believe that the person was about to hit or attack you. In plain words -- if you can't tell someone who wasn't there, and is only looking at the aftermath WHY you had to do that damage to that person, you're in trouble.

Let me paint a couple quick scenarios to show what I'm saying:

#1... You've just been in a fender bender. Nothing major, just one of those things. The other guy gets out of his car. His face is red, he's screaming, calling you names and commenting upon your parentage. His fists are balled up, and he even starts pounding on his own car. But he's staying beside his car, and all his pacing is moving from his door to the end of his car furthest from you and back. You cover the 7 or so feet between your doors, grab him, use an arm bar takedown and introduce his face to about 4 feet of pavement. When the cops arrive, they cuff you, and you find yourself charged with assault & battery. (Maybe even worse; I'd actually make an aggravated assault charge, at least.) Why? Because, mad and violent as he was, he wasn't approaching you. You'll probably have an uphill battle to convince someone that he was posing an imminent threat of attack. YOU closed on him!

#2... Almost the same situation. Fender bender, driver is screaming and yelling. He gets out of the car, and start to come towards you, fists raised, screaming that you'll be eating soup through a straw when he's done, if you're lucky -- and worse. Rather than wait for him to get to you, you charge him, use a clothesline-type tackle, locking his arm in the process, and as he goes down, you drop and drive his face into the ground. This time -- you're not arrested. Why? Because the scene I painted makes it pretty clear that you had every reason to fear that he was going to attack you. He was advancing, his words made his intent clear, and were in concert with his actions and body posture.

In other words, a lot can turn on how you explain something. The end of either situation would look a lot alike. But being able to paint that picture for the responding cops -- and ideally being the one to call them! -- makes a big difference.

Of course -- I am not providing legal guidance or advice. For sound legal guidance or advice, consult a licensed attorney.

 

[DavidCC]

I just thought of a great exercise: we ahve a few techniques taht end with attacker locked up on the ground... holding bad guy in arm bar or lock and getting out cell phone and dialing 911 without him getting up. ROFL probably not practical but might be fun.

 

[jks9199]

I just thought of a great exercise: we ahve a few techniques taht end with attacker locked up on the ground... holding bad guy in arm bar or lock and getting out cell phone and dialing 911 without him getting up. ROFL probably not practical but might be fun.

For non-law enforcement self defense, I consider arm-bars special circumstance moves, along with any other restraining move. Generally, to defend yourself, you want to put the attacker down, not hold him.

I once saw a beautiful, 12 or 13 step self defense move one time. We'll ignore the problems with complexity and stress for the moment; it was a truly lovely move. But it ended with the attacker locked up. So, basically, the defender is now presented with "what next?" If you let him go -- he's coming back at you. But you're tied up, too... so you can't do something further to him.

Self-defense is not the same as defensive tactics for LE.

 

[punisher73]

#2... Almost the same situation. Fender bender, driver is screaming and yelling. He gets out of the car, and start to come towards you, fists raised, screaming that you'll be eating soup through a straw when he's done, if you're lucky -- and worse. Rather than wait for him to get to you, you charge him, use a clothesline-type tackle, locking his arm in the process, and as he goes down, you drop and drive his face into the ground. This time -- you're not arrested. Why? Because the scene I painted makes it pretty clear that you had every reason to fear that he was going to attack you. He was advancing, his words made his intent clear, and were in concert with his actions and body posture.

In Michigan you would still be charged with A&B. Why? Because you did not fulfill your "duty to retreat" you made no attempt to leave or get to safety or (if there are witnesses) given ANY indication that you did not want to fight with this person. Now if you can also articulate "WHY" you did not attempt to retreat, such as it was on a busy road and it would have put you in greater harm because of the traffic, you couldn't get around your car to create a safety barrier, etc. then you could probably still claim it.

Again, it all comes down to articulating EVERYTHING about why you did what you did, and that it is in accordance with "equal or lesser force" and is what a "reasonable person" would do in the same situation.

 

[NubreedKaliSilat]

Is it not better to be judged by 12 than carried by six! My two cents, Ben

 

[marlon]

Is it not better to be judged by 12 than carried by six! My two cents, Ben

i like this saying, however, it is sometimes used without considering that there may be (and usually is) at least a thrid option to be found.

just my two cents
marlon